Stupid SOU Address

[DrummerDeanna]

Ugh - again I can feel my blood pressure going up just listening to this dribble - our "president" infuriates me - I don't think I've even felt such anger and ire toward someone.....ass....

I've already got the response from one awesome democratic Congresswoman who read the speech beforehand...

Hillary's doing a conference call in about an hour....this guy is intent on screwing us all in the next four years :mad:

[markolas]

I can't stand the sight of the man. You can actually sit through a two-hour speech?

My grandpa calls him a "beady-eyed son of a bitch." :nod: :laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

I can't stand the sight of the man. You can actually sit through a two-hour speech?

My grandpa calls him a "beady-eyed son of a bitch." :nod: :laugh:

I have to monitor the station and get state politician response - so I need to know a bit of what he's saying....I can feel my blood pressure rising - this can't be healthy for me...

And your grandpa? is dead on in that description :nod:

[xdreamsunwindx]

Oh hell. -_-

Only... 3 years, 2 months, and 16 days until I'm 18 and can therefore move to England or Canada. Woot.

[markolas]

Oh hell. -_-

Only... 3 years, 2 months, and 16 days until I'm 18 and can therefore move to England or Canada. Woot.

He'll almost be out of office by then. :D

[xdreamsunwindx]

He'll almost be out of office by then. :D

That is true. Oh well. The sooner I can move to England, the better.

[pianogirl04]

How many words has Dubya shredded so far? :lol: I'm watching some music documentary on E when I should have my nose in a book. I'd start screaming at the TV if I watched the SOU.

[SuzeQuze]

I can't stand the sight of the man. You can actually sit through a two-hour speech?

My grandpa calls him a "beady-eyed son of a bitch." :nod: :laugh:

LOL! Omigod, I LOVE your Grandpa! I watched the first half hour (don't know how) then I had to leave the room and close my door and turn on some FM, ahhhh. The Social Security bull**** got me. :mad:

[SuzeQuze]

How many words has Dubya shredded so far? :lol: I'm watching some music documentary on E when I should have my nose in a book. I'd start screaming at the TV if I watched the SOU.

Yeah, when he said "nukyular" I almost spat.

[DrummerDeanna]

LOL! Omigod, I LOVE your Grandpa! I watched the first half hour (don't know how) then I had to leave the room and close my door and turn on some FM, ahhhh. The Social Security bull**** got me. :mad:

Yeah - that was a biggie - Louise Slaughter (D-NY) was PISSED...she's a riot - coolest elected official I've ever met - she talked to me earlier with her reactions....

*sigh* I hope we don't get blown off the face of the planet because of this guy

[SuzeQuze]

Yeah - that was a biggie - Louise Slaughter (D-NY) was PISSED...she's a riot - coolest elected official I've ever met - she talked to me earlier with her reactions....

*sigh* I hope we don't get blown off the face of the planet because of this guy

Even worse than watching Bush was that ugly smirk on Cheney's face, what a slimy sneer.

[DrummerDeanna]

Even worse than watching Bush was that ugly smirk on Cheney's face, what a slimy sneer.

oh I know!! That's the first thing I noticed when I looked at the screen - which I did only twice - I seriously can't look at those two - too much evil hurts my eyes ya know? ;)

[gldstwmn]

this guy is intent on screwing us all in the next four years :mad:

:nod: I had to go meet a client so I missed the whole damn thing. I am so disappointed. :lol: I'll read up on it tomorrow.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Even worse than watching Bush was that ugly smirk on Cheney's face, what a slimy sneer.

Did you guys watch? I did.

I thought I was actually really well. I loved the meeting of the Iraqi and the parents of the dead soldier...very moving IMO.

[EnchantedSLN]

:nod: I had to go meet a client so I missed the whole damn thing. I am so disappointed. :lol: I'll read up on it tomorrow.

Liberty, social security, bankrupt, protect marriage, culture of life, nukyular, terra, free Iraq, *applauseapplauseapplause*... I think that about covers it.

[estranged4life]

South Park for an hour instead...Episodes about LOTR & the Special Olympics still reminded me of the "Bush Reich" :shrug:

[dissention]

Liberty, social security, bankrupt, protect marriage, culture of life, nukyular, terra, free Iraq, *applauseapplauseapplause*... I think that about covers it.

LMFAO!!!!!!!! :lol:

I am rolling.

[DrummerDeanna]

LMFAO!!!!!!!! :lol:

I am rolling.

That sad part is - she nailed it right on the head....stupid president :mad:

[SuzeQuze]

That sad part is - she nailed it right on the head....stupid president :mad:

I know, I thought the exact same thing, hit-nail-head. Ugh.

drinkinggame.us Dunno what it is but MR just said check it out.

[DrummerDeanna]

Now I'm going to go home and hope that my blood pressure comes down lol- the Dems I talked to had really good responses to what the president said - and surprisingly the Republican I talked to did as well...so not all hope is lost tonight... :o

[GypsySorcerer]

I refused to turn on the television. I wonder how many times he said "Freedom" or "Liberty."

So yeah, I'm glad I didn't watch.

[wondergirl9847]

What is the SOU Address?

State of the Union. In other words, a summary of how the country is doing.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

State of the Union. In other words, a summary of how the country is doing.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who cought that. :nod:

[EnchantedSLN]

What is the SOU Address? I gather it involves the President and he addresses something.

The only times I've watched Bush is when they show clips of him on a comedy show here. Every single time he's appeared, without realising it I've covered my eyes and starting singing "la la la" to drown out his voice. It's just too embarassing to watch.

SOU = State of the Union. "He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient." It's basically an hour-long speech in which the president addresses both houses of Congress and gives an overview of what he feels the most important issues are and what he hopes to accomplish in his term. It's superficially long because it's so annoyingly ritualistic :rolleyes:... everyone erupts into applause after every other sentence to express approval (or not) and the pundits all count the instances of applause to gauge reaction to the speech later :laugh:

[irishgrl]

I dont need the Bumbler to tell me the State of Our Union. I already know. and it isnt pretty, and its going to get even uglier since he has 4 GAWDAWFUL more years to reem us out...

I hope we survive...I hope our KIDS survive....the only good thing is he cant steal any more elections.....:mad:

[dissention]

Sounds like a riot, and if it involves president pubic hair, one filled with half-truths (quarter-truths might even be stretching it) and cliched lines attempting to portray triumph. I think I'd rather have my eyes stretched open and be forced to watch 'White Chicks'.

:lol::lol::lol:

I am laughing my ****ing ass off.

The State of the Union Address is the same forum in which he lied to the world about Saddam obtaining uranium from Africa. It's also the same forum in which he lectured the American people about steroid use in professional sports last year.

[irishgrl]

Stammersprechen of Uberfuhrer
Shame of US
Stinky Old Underwear
Spewmeister's Oratory Ugliness
Stench in Olfactory Ughgain (took liberties with spelling on THAT ONE! :nod: )
Shaddup Olready Ugh (OK, Im getting silly here)
Spewage Offered by Underacheiver
Simpleton in Office Unfortunately
if anyone is seeing a pattern here its that each of MY meanings makes as much sense as the State of our Union...

[sunmaiden]

I can't stand the sight of the man. You can actually sit through a two-hour speech?

My grandpa calls him a "beady-eyed son of a bitch." :nod: :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Your lucky, my family are all R's. BLECH!!!

I watched the SOU here:

http://www.c-span.org/classroom/lang/state.asp

Just in case you missed our president bumble everything...I really wish the leader of our country had an IQ higher than mine.

[markolas]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Your lucky, my family are all R's. BLECH!!!

Mine are, too, except for my grandpa. It drives the rest of my family nuts. :lol:

[sunmaiden]

Mine are, too, except for my grandpa. It drives the rest of my family nuts. :lol:

My parents think I am crazy. So does my sister. I am very open about how I feel, my dad and I used to get into really big arguments about our little presy. WTF! I used to have faith in our country that we could do a lot better than this. But now I am convinced that we are one of the dumbest countries, and it's gotten to the point where they can pull ANYTHING over on us.

BUT- I still fight the good fight!
:lol:

[dissention]

Just in case you missed our president bumble everything...I really wish the leader of our country had an IQ higher than mine.

The chair I'm sitting in has a higher IQ than that "man." :laugh:

[estranged4life]

Stammersprechen of Uberfuhrer
Shame of US
Stinky Old Underwear
Spewmeister's Oratory Ugliness
Stench in Olfactory Ughgain (took liberties with spelling on THAT ONE! :nod: )
Shaddup Olready Ugh (OK, Im getting silly here)
Spewage Offered by Underacheiver
Simpleton in Office Unfortunately
if anyone is seeing a pattern here its that each of MY meanings makes as much sense as the State of our Union...

Simpletard's Office of Unusefulness
Stupid Oklahoma University
Sucky Oklahoma University
Stupidly Over Useless
Stupid Ol' Utahians (Or whatever ya call folkz in Utah besdes Mormon :rolleyes: )

and with the way our country is headed (I hope noone gets bent outta shape with this one):

Seig-Hiel Our Uberfuhrer (aka Bush) :rolleyes:

[irishgrl]

Stuck On Useless
Scary OvalOffice Underling
Some Other Universe
Screwall Of Us
Stand Outside Ugly! :thumbsup:

[estranged4life]

Stuck On Useless
Scary OvalOffice Underling
Some Other Universe
Screwall Of Us
Stand Outside Ugly! :thumbsup:

unfair & unbalanced (Hey, Aint there a TV News Network with those catch phrase?) I have to add one for former Prez. Slick Willy Clinton:

Sticky OralOffice Underwear (That would, of course, Be Monica Blew-him-sky).

[irishgrl]

Somebody Oughta Unload
seriously out unwinding
stiff old upperlip

[DrummerDeanna]

Screwall Of Us
Stand Outside Ugly! :thumbsup:

:lol: :lol: :lol: I think those two are my favorite....

[irishgrl]

Once upon a time in Some Other Universe, a Scary OvalOffice Underling was sitting at a big brown desk with cigar stains when in walks The Cheny Monster who barked: Stand Outside Ugly!. Well, as you may imagine, this caused Stammersprechen of Uberfuhrer, whose Stinky Old Underwear just created Stench Olfactory Ughain! "Screwall Of Us," he thought. "Theres a Simpleton in Office Unfortunately!" He decided then and there not to let the Spewmeisters Oratory Ugliness get to him! He marched right back into the room and said "Shaddap Olready, Ugh!" Alas, for our intrepid Bumbler who was Stuck on Useless, The Cheny Monster had already left to have his daily lunch of Minute Rice and spam.
the end.

:D :] :p :nod:

[SuzeQuze]

Stuck On Useless
Scary OvalOffice Underling
Some Other Universe
Screwall Of Us
Stand Outside Ugly! :thumbsup:

This one's my fav, Scary OvalOffice Underling, nice one! :thumbsup:

But I love them all.

[SuzeQuze]

Once upon a time in Some Other Universe, a Scary OvalOffice Underling was sitting at a big brown desk with cigar stains when in walks The Cheny Monster who barked: Stand Outside Ugly!. Well, as you may imagine, this caused Stammersprechen of Uberfuhrer, whose Stinky Old Underwear just created Stench Olfactory Ughain! "Screwall Of Us," he thought. "Theres a Simpleton in Office Unfortunately!" He decided then and there not to let the Spewmeisters Oratory Ugliness get to him! He marched right back into the room and said "Shaddap Olready, Ugh!" Alas, for our intrepid Bumbler who was Stuck on Useless, The Cheny Monster had already left to have his daily lunch of Minute Rice and spam.
the end.

:D :] :p :nod:

Omigod, this is good! You're a genius! :] :laugh: :laugh: :]

[irishgrl]

Omigod, this is good! You're a genius! :] :laugh: :laugh: :]

yez. :nod: no applause, just money!

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I loved seeing the democrats cheer when he said :

"Social Security was a great moral success of the 20th century, and we must honor its great purposes in this new century."

And then he of course held up his finger...and continued on to tell why it needs to change and all...

The funniest one was when the democrats cheered when he said :

"The United States has no right, no desire and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else. That is one... "

I loved it! priceless!

Chris

[irishgrl]

I understand that never in the history of the State of the Union address, has any President been heckled like that....interesting that it should start with Bushwhacked....somehow appropriate tho, considering...

[strandinthewind]

I loved seeing the democrats cheer when he said :

"Social Security was a great moral success of the 20th century, and we must honor its great purposes in this new century."

And then he of course held up his finger...and continued on to tell why it needs to change and all...

I am just curious, do you think nothing should be done to SS and that it should exist the way it is in the staus quo with no changes?

All facts indicate that if nothing is done at all, it will probably not last in its present form after say around 2050. After then, benefits will have to be cut in some fashion, e.g. higher retirement/eligibility date, less money paid out, etc., because the system will be taking in less than it is paying out. This eventually will lead to its demise.

I think that trying to fix this pending crisis (I think it is a crisis) it now is wise. Personally, this problem has been looming for the last 20 years and it could have been fixed much more easily then.

It will be interesting to see what Congress decides to do. My guess is as usual the special interest groups will buy off both sides and the end product will be an abomination a la the Medicare Drug Benefit.

[heyjupiter678]

I understand that never in the history of the State of the Union address, has any President been heckled like that....interesting that it should start with Bushwhacked....somehow appropriate tho, considering... Republicans booed (and about 20 even walked out once) during Clinton's SOTU speeches.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200502040014
http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/05/02/ale05027.html

[irishgrl]

Republicans booed (and about 20 even walked out once) during Clinton's SOTU speeches.

I should have known......but I bet he's laffing up his sleeve right about now....

[irishgrl]

I think the smartest thing congress could do (and therefore the LAST thing they will do~) would be to eliminate the $90k cap, and make it a straight across the board tax on income, INCLUDING corporations. ESPECIALLY corporations. Which of course you KNOW wont happen. and thus, the issue grows....

[strandinthewind]

I think the smartest thing congress could do (and therefore the LAST thing they will do~) would be to eliminate the $90k cap, and make it a straight across the board tax on income, INCLUDING corporations. ESPECIALLY corporations. Which of course you KNOW wont happen. and thus, the issue grows....

I do not think corps. are taxed on their income. Corps. instead match the emp. SS tax.

[irishgrl]

if corporations were taxed on their income, they wouldnt need to contribute to the employees ssi fund, their taxed income would fund the ssi coffers from now til eternity! problem solved! voila! (that'll be $20 pleez, payable to pay pal~)

ps: Ive just immortalized you in another thread, check out Gray Davis/recall thread

[strandinthewind]

if corporations were taxed on their income, they wouldnt need to contribute to the employees ssi fund, their taxed income would fund the ssi coffers from now til eternity! problem solved! voila! (that'll be $20 pleez, payable to pay pal~)

ps: Ive just immortalized you in another thread, check out Gray Davis/recall thread

Unless I misunderstand you, they do not contribute to the SSI fund (I am unsure there is an "SSI fund" ) - they contribute to the Social Security fund via matching payroll tax, which is different :wavey: SSI is funded through regular income tax :wavey:

Again, I am for a flat personal income tax of MAYBE at the most 20% with NO OTHER TAXES, including Social Security. We would have money in the bank with that plan :cool:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I thought the cap for SS was at $76,000.


If you think fixing SS should be done by borrowing about 2 trillion dollars, putting our economy more in the dump (now FINALLY Dick Cheney has admitted the "borrowing a couple of trillion" would be necessary) is the right thing--so be it..

It is said that if the economy continues to grow at an average rate of growth the social security trust fund surplus may NEVER run out..

According to Paul Krugman, a prize-winning economist and professor of economics at Princeton University :

"Even if the trust fund does run out, Social Security will still be able to pay eighty percent of promised benefits. The actual shortfall would be a pretty small part of the federal budget, quite easily made up from other sources. Once the whole baby-boomer generation is into the retirement pool, Social Security's share of the gross domestic product will only increase by about two percent. Well, President Bush's tax cuts are more than two percent of GDP -- and they're happening right now, not fifty years from now. So the idea that there's this Social Security thing that is a huge problem is just wrong."


With all the huge problems facing the government today, certainly some things in SS should be tweaked---but should this be at the top of our priority list??

Just because Bush has gutted the income tax is his own fault (which the federal government is obligated to redeem its debt to the trust fund with its own revenues --mainly the income tax).

[irishgrl]

Unless I misunderstand you, they do not contribute to the SSI fund (I am unsure there is an "SSI fund" ) - they contribute to the Social Security fund via matching payroll tax, which is different :wavey: SSI is funded through regular income tax :wavey:

Again, I am for a flat personal income tax of MAYBE at the most 20% with NO OTHER TAXES, including Social Security. We would have money in the bank with that plan :cool:

my mistake, I meant social security, not ssi (I work with ssi clients and it just rolled off the keyboard like wattah)
sorry!
:rolleyes:

my key point is that corporations should be taxed more than they are, they reap huge profits and return very little actually. They can afford to contribute and they should.

[strandinthewind]

my mistake, I meant social security, not ssi (I work with ssi clients and it just rolled off the keyboard like wattah)
sorry!
:rolleyes:

my key point is that corporations should be taxed more than they are, they reap huge profits and return very little actually. They can afford to contribute and they should.


I thought that was a slip up - it is easy to do because SSI and DIB are administered mostly by the same entity in so far as qualification is concerned.

As for corp. taxation. Yes, they should be taxed more, but I think that if the major loopholes, like quasi-tax free offshore citizenship, were extinguished, that would solve many problems without raising the actual current rates.

[strandinthewind]

I thought the cap for SS was at $76,000.

It may be - I thought it was 90 - but in any case, it is too low.


If you think fixing SS should be done by borrowing about 2 trillion dollars, putting our economy more in the dump (now FINALLY Dick Cheney has admitted the "borrowing a couple of trillion" would be necessary) is the right thing--so be it..

When I was typing that prior response, I was so thinking you were going to come back with this response. I did not advocate the personal account remedy. In fact, I have repeatedly said that while I think it is a good idea in general, the cost of it seemingly is too much and it in essence does nothing to add to the corpus of the SS trust fund. So, your response is putting words in my mouth - I never said that.

Again, if we do not put more money into SS, it cannot meet its obligations. It needs to be fixed. How it is to be fixed is the subject of debate. If we do nothing, the trust fund will be depleted. Once that happens, then SS is subject to the mercy of Congress and how they fund it. I do not think anyone wants that to happen - I certainly do not and I base that on the horrible way Medicare is administered and subject to funding. The only way to prevent that is to put more money in the corpus of the Trust so the Trust can continue to generate income to pay SS's obligations.

[irishgrl]

I thought that was a slip up - it is easy to do because SSI and DIB are administered mostly by the same entity in so far as qualification is concerned.

As for corp. taxation. Yes, they should be taxed more, but I think that if the major loopholes, like quasi-tax free offshore citizenship, were extinguished, that would solve many problems without raising the actual current rates.


I personally think corporations are given FAR too many breaks and should pull their weight more. and, I think outsourcing and offshoring will be the death of our economy. One day, these other countries that corporations find so inviting are going to push them out, and benefit from our technology etc and THEN where will they be? I cant help but grieve for the towns whose whole livlihood went up in smoke because the town's only viable industry went overseas....and do you think our ScaryOvalOfficeUnderling gives a rip? no! he is Screwingall Of US~ (sorry, couldnt resist! this IS the thread for it after all!)

[strandinthewind]

I personally think corporations are given FAR too many breaks and should pull their weight more. and, I think outsourcing and offshoring will be the death of our economy. One day, these other countries that corporations find so inviting are going to push them out, and benefit from our technology etc and THEN where will they be? I cant help but grieve for the towns whose whole livlihood went up in smoke because the town's only viable industry went overseas....and do you think our ScaryOvalOfficeUnderling gives a rip? no! he is Screwingall Of US~ (sorry, couldnt resist! this IS the thread for it after all!)

The tax breaks on corps. are a fine line. Without corporate expansion, there can be no significant economic growth. Yet, when the corp. growth (jobs) are overseas, it is hard to see how that, int he sort run, is better for the US jobs market. I do not think taxing corp.s at 90% (not that you said that :cool: ) is the way to go. I think the rates should stay about the same and the loopholes (offshore tax breaks, foreign job tax breaks, etc. ) closed. These actions would initially retard economic growth, but I think in the long run, they would be better for the economy. I also think corps. should have to 100% fund all pension plans and the plans should not be able to be raided in a bankruptcy a la Easter Airlines and many others.

[irishgrl]

Again, if we do not put more money into SS, it cannot meet its obligations. It needs to be fixed. How it is to be fixed is the subject of debate. If we do nothing, the trust fund will be depleted. Once that happens, then SS is subject to the mercy of Congress and how they fund it. I do not think anyone wants that to happen - I certainly do not and I base that on the horrible way Medicare is administered and subject to funding. The only way to prevent that is to put more money in the corpus of the Trust so the Trust can continue to generate income to pay SS's obligations.

I have seen commentary by various economists that say that even when the trust fund itself is gone, benefits for baby boomers can still be paid at 80% of the current level. That doesnt sound broke to me! The remaining 20% can be funded by the budget-provided every available dime isnt going to fund some unethical war :mad: This budget is military heavy and light on everything else. Bush wont even fund his OWN programs! (no child left behind? HAH!) ah well......

[strandinthewind]

I have seen commentary by various economists that say that even when the trust fund itself is gone, benefits for baby boomers can still be paid at 80% of the current level. That doesnt sound broke to me! The remaining 20% can be funded by the budget-provided every available dime isnt going to fund some unethical war :mad: This budget is military heavy and light on everything else. Bush wont even fund his OWN programs! (no child left behind? HAH!) ah well......

I know but that ignores the point that the trust fund is gone. Thus, any and all benefits must be paid from the general fund, which has every other Agency sucking from it. That is a scary proposition. Do you really want the benefits of SS to be subject to the whim of Congress and the special interest groups. I do not. Plus, I suggest to someone relying solely on SS, that 20% cut is significant and you know Congress will screw with it and give as little as they can.

I cannot believe people can argue with a straight face that depleting the entire SS trust fund is a good thing and that no crisis exists to save it and that leaving SS benefits to the whim of Congress is A OK. To me, it sounds like partisan politics in that W wants to do it so I automatically oppose it.

Edit - maybe its the word crisis that has people all aflame. Maybe the phrase should be careful financial planning to ensure the trust fund survivies as it will not if nothing is done. AND - I readily admit Medicare is in far more of a crisis than SS.

[GateandGarden]

This is why I can't understand someone (I'm not naming names because it's all too obvious) coming onto this board and saying that it's in need of differing opinions and someone presenting another side. I don't get it. We debate issues often. We don't all agree on everything and this particular thread is an example of that. How is only one side being represented on this board? :shrug: Silly me, trying to attribute logic to this individual's posts. I guess that's where I'm going wrong. :laugh:

[irishgrl]

I cannot believe people can argue with a straight face that depleting the entire SS trust fund is a good thing and that no crisis exists to save it and that leaving SS benefits to the whim of Congress is A OK. To me, it sounds like partisan politics in that W wants to do it so I automatically oppose it.

I am not in favor of depleting ANYTHING! I dont want to see the trust fund zeroed out! I think it should be replenished as much as you do! I was only pointing out that the current Administration is trying to SCARE everyone and their solution is DISASTROUS! I think a flat tax based on income all the way(ALL THE WAY) across the board (EVEN THE RICHEST-ESPECIALLY THEM!!!) makes the most sense. My issue is with this administration using scare tactics about SS the same way they did about WMD! come ON! its more propaganda, the Russians (KGB) had nothing on this administration!

[strandinthewind]

I am not in favor of depleting ANYTHING! I dont want to see the trust fund zeroed out! I think it should be replenished as much as you do! I was only pointing out that the current Administration is trying to SCARE everyone and their solution is DISASTROUS! I think a flat tax based on income all the way(ALL THE WAY) across the board (EVEN THE RICHEST-ESPECIALLY THEM!!!) makes the most sense. My issue is with this administration using scare tactics about SS the same way they did about WMD! come ON! its more propaganda, the Russians (KGB) had nothing on this administration!

Well, no it is not a scare tactic. I mean Gore and Clinton (less so) both said that SS needed to be fixed. As I mentioned before, Carter wanted to fix it in the 70's. A fuind this large cannot be fixed in a day. The time value of money is the cheapest and most effective way to fix it. For those who do not know what the time value of money is, it is in a nutshell that money invested today will grow exponentially in the future and thus it is cheaper to put money away and let it grow. This relates to the SS trust fund in that if we put more money into the fund starting today, in 50 years, that money will be many times over the amount of the initial investments. Thus, SS is a crisis in that if we do not act today, it will be next to impossible to fix as cheaply 20 years from now. Thus, I do not think there is any debate over whether it needs to be fixed now - I think W is correct here. I think the debate is how we are going to fix it. The individual retirement accounts are not a bad idea on their face, but the current plan being touted is seemingly too expensive from what I have seen and there is not really any specific plan as to how the investing will take place or what happens if the investor looses all of the money in their plan. Thus, I reserve judgement on this method until I see more specifics - but my gut reaction is Congress (R and D alike) will scew it up like they do everything else. I think the most effective way to put money into the corpus of the trust fund (which is the only way to provide more benefits later) is to eradicate the ceiling on the SS tax and to limit the benefits given to people who do not need them - perhaps with a sliding scale of diminishing benefits starting at a few % points less in benefits for those making over a certain amount a year.

[irishgrl]

Well, no it is not a scare tactic. I mean Gore and Clinton (less so) both said that SS needed to be fixed. As I mentioned before, Carter wanted to fix it in the 70's. A fuind this large cannot be fixed in a day. The time value of money is the cheapest and most effective way to fix it. For those who do not know what the time value of money is, it is in a nutshell that money invested today will grow exponentially in the future and thus it is cheaper to put money away and let it grow. This relates to the SS trust fund in that if we put more money into the fund starting today, in 50 years, that money will be many times over the amount of the initial investments. Thus, SS is a crisis in that if we do not act today, it will be next to impossible to fix as cheaply 20 years from now. Thus, I do not think there is any debate over whether it needs to be fixed now - I think W is correct here. I think the debate is how we are going to fix it. The individual retirement accounts are not a bad idea on their face, but the current plan being touted is seemingly too expensive from what I have seen and there is not really any specific plan as to how the investing will take place or what happens if the investor looses all of the money in their plan. Thus, I reserve judgement on this method until I see more specifics - but my gut reaction is Congress (R and D alike) will scew it up like they do everything else. I think the most effective way to put money into the corpus of the trust fund (which is the only way to provide more benefits later) is to eradicate the ceiling on the SS tax and to limit the benefits given to people who do not need them - perhaps with a sliding scale of diminishing benefits starting at a few % points less in benefits for those making over a certain amount a year.

(LORD, you're WORDY!)
on the time value of $$, I remember thinking (when I took a particular math class years ago) that I wish I had the funds to invest regularly in a compound interest account...I'd be rolling in dough! so I understand that early action has its benefits! I just object to the propaganda tactic of trying to scare us all the same way that they did w/WMD. If there was a flat tax across the board, and IF the money was put in the fund and left alone we'd be fine Im sure! Im with you, I dont trust Congress and I especially dont trust the Bumbler.

[strandinthewind]

On topic:

Poll: Wealthy should bolster Social Security

(CNN) -- Americans think the wealthy should help bolster Social Security, a CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll released Tuesday suggests.

More than two-thirds of 1,010 adults contacted from Friday to Sunday said it would be a good idea to limit benefits for wealthier retirees and for higher income workers to pay Social Security taxes on all their wages.

Currently, the cap on wages taxed for Social Security is set at $90,000.

Other options to change Social Security fell far behind -- 40 percent of respondents said reducing benefits for early retirement is a good idea; 37 percent said increasing the tax for all workers would be a good idea; 35 percent said the government should increase the age at which people could receive full benefits; and 29 percent said reducing benefits for people under 55 was acceptable.

The margin of error for the poll was plus or minus three percentage points.

About 55 percent of respondents thought Bush's proposal that would allow wage earners to invest some of their Social Security taxes in private investment accounts in the future is a "bad idea" -- the same percentage as a month ago before the president began his campaign for the plan.

Forty percent said it was a good idea in both polls.

But 64 percent said that the system will be bankrupt by 2042 if "major changes" aren't made.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Social Security Administration and the Office of Management and Budget, the system won't be penniless, but it will be unable to pay all the benefits due by about midcentury.

Their conservative actuarial reports estimate income from the payroll taxes would cover between 70 percent and 80 percent of the necessary funds.

Those responding to the poll indicated they have more confidence in their own investment skills than in those of most Americans.

Thirty-seven percent said they thought most Americans would get lower benefits if allowed to invest through personal accounts (30 percent said the benefits would be higher).

About 40 percent said they believed they personally would reap higher benefits, while 27 percent thought they would do worse with personal accounts.

Of the respondents, 757 were not retired -- and 53 percent of them said they had done some planning for retirement "but not enough."

Four percent of those responding to the poll said they thought there was no problem with Social Security.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/08/poll.socialsecurity/index.html