800 Number to contact Senators re: Ohio vote Fraud

[irishgrl]

Jesse Jackson Article w/800 number (http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010505A.shtml)
Senators Should Object to Ohio Vote
By Jesse Jackson
The Chicago Sun Times

Tuesday 04 January 2005

This Thursday in Washington Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), the senior minority member of the House Judiciary Committee, will formally object to the counting of the Ohio electoral vote in the 2004 presidential election. If any senator joins him, the counting of the vote is suspended and the House and the Senate must convene separately to hear the objections filed, and to vote on whether to accept them.

The grounds for the objections are clear: The irregularities in the Ohio vote and vote count are widespread and blatant. If the Ohio election were held in the Ukraine, it would not have been certified by the international community.

In Ohio, the gulf between exit polls and counted votes is vast and glaring. Blatant discrimination in the distribution of voting machines ensured long lines in inner-city and working-class precincts that favored John Kerry, while the exurban districts that favored President Bush had no similar problems.

Systematic efforts were made to suppress and challenge the new voters in Kerry precincts, whether students or African Americans. Some precincts were certified with more votes than the number registered; others were certified with preposterously low turnouts. Voting machines, produced by a company headed by a vowed Bush supporter, provide no paper record. Ohio's secretary of state, the inappropriately partisan head of the state's Bush campaign, has resisted any systematic recount of the ballots.

The systematic bias and potential for fraud is unmistakable. An in-depth investigation is vital - and the partisan secretary of state has opposed it every step of the way. In this context, Conyers and his colleagues in the House are serving the nation's best interests in demanding an investigation of the irregularities in Ohio, and objecting to business as usual in counting the vote.

If Harry Reid, the new leader of the Democratic minority in the Senate, has any sense, he will lead members of the caucus to support their colleagues from the House and demand a debate that will expose the irregularities in Ohio. If Kerry wants to establish his continued leadership, he will stand first to join with Conyers and demand a debate.

Will the debate overturn the outcome of the election? That is doubtful, although the irregularities in Ohio suggest that Kerry may well have won if a true count could be had. But the debate is vital anyway. This country's elections, each run with different standards by different states, with partisan tricks, racial bias, and too often widespread incompetence, are an open scandal.

We need national standards to ensure that we get an honest count across the country. National standards, accompanied by a constitutional amendment to guarantee the right to vote for all Americans, will be passed only if leaders in the Congress refuse to close their eyes to the scandal, and instead stop business as usual.

Conyers, Reid and Kerry will face harsh criticism for violating what might be called the Nixon precedent. When Kennedy beat Nixon by a few thousand votes in an election marked by irregularities in Illinois and Texas, Nixon chose not to challenge the result. Gore essentially followed that rule after the gang of five in the Supreme Court disgraced themselves by stopping the vote count in Florida. But the effect of the Nixon precedent is to provide those who would cheat with essentially a free pass. Particularly when the state officials are partisans, they can put in the fix with little fear of exposure so long as they win.

So Conyers will step up, accompanied by other courageous members of the House. They will object to the count and demand a debate. To force that debate, they need only one member of the Senate to join them. Reid should lead the entire caucus to join them. Kerry should stand alone if necessary to demand clean elections in America.

If America is to be a champion of democracy abroad, it must clean up its elections at home. If it is to complain of fraudulent and dishonest election practices abroad, it cannot condone them at home. But more important, if our own elections are to be legitimate, then they must be honest, open, with high national standards.

The time has come to stand up for clean elections, and to let it be known that massive irregularities will not go unchallenged.

To call all Senators toll free: 1-800-839-5276 or 1-877-762-8762.

[amber]

thanks, irishgirl, that's really cool. now to call... :D I don't think feinstein will get on board, though. But there's still our House o' Reps (that's Irish for House of Representatives :laugh: )

[strandinthewind]

What did the Congressional investigation turn up?

Again, I am all for investigating and throwing any and all guilty parties (R, D, or I) in jail. But, I do not see how the numbers add up to give Kerry a victory in Ohio. But, I am glad the Senators are standing up for the investigation.

[gldstwmn]

thanks, irishgirl, that's really cool. now to call... :D I don't think feinstein will get on board, though. But there's still our House o' Reps (that's Irish for House of Representatives :laugh: )

Call Boxer! You're in Cali! :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

What did the Congressional investigation turn up?

Again, I am all for investigating and throwing any and all guilty parties (R, D, or I) in jail. But, I do not see how the numbers add up to give Kerry a victory in Ohio. But, I am glad the Senators are standing up for the investigation.

No one is looking for a Kerry victory at this point. This is about putting and end to the disenfranchisement of minority voters and protesting the certification of the electoral votes from the state of Ohio where there were massive irregularities. The Secretary of State has refused to do anything about these irregularities. He was also chairman of the 2004 committee to reelect Bush/Cheney.
Conyers has put together a package for the Senators with the findings. As I said there is quite a bit. irishgirl has listed some of them I believe and I would be happy to list more. There is a lot of information. Is there anything specific you'd like to see?

[irishgrl]

I plan on calling MY Senators and maybe a few of other people's Senators too!:]

[irishgrl]

What did the Congressional investigation turn up?

Again, I am all for investigating and throwing any and all guilty parties (R, D, or I) in jail. But, I do not see how the numbers add up to give Kerry a victory in Ohio. But, I am glad the Senators are standing up for the investigation.
Jason, I think Jackson is referring to the exit polls, the statistical analysis of the certified vote by mathmeticians, expert analysis of the voting machines, etc as shown in an investigation done by freepress.org...
I am going to get you the link

[irishgrl]

Election 2004
By Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman
The FreePress.org

Monday 03 January 2005
Ten preliminary reasons why the Bush vote does not compute, and why Congress must investigate rather than certify the Electoral College (Part One of Two).

The presidential vote for George W. Bush does not compute.

By examining a very wide range of sworn testimonies from voters, polling officials and others close to the administration of the Nov. 2 election; by statistical analysis of the certified vote by mathematicians, election experts and independent research teams who have conducted detailed studies of the results in Ohio, New Mexico, Florida and elsewhere; from experts who studied the voting machines, tabulators and other electronic equipment on which a fair vote count has depended; and from a team of attorneys and others who have challenged the Ohio results; the freepress.org investigative team has compiled a portrait of an election whose true outcome must be investigated further by the Congress, the media and all Americans - because it was almost certainly not an honest victory for George W. Bush.

Crucial flaws in the national vote count, most importantly in Ohio, New Mexico and Florida, indicate John Kerry was most likely the actual winner on November 2, as reported in national exit polls. At very least, the widespread tampering with how the election was conducted, and how Ohio's votes were counted and re-counted, has compromised this nation's historic commitment to free and fair elections.

On Thursday, January 6, the Electoral College will be challenged by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) and other members of Congress under a law passed in 1887 in reaction to the fraudulent election of 1876. A fuller investigation requires assent by at least one Senator.

As this vote nears, Ohio's certified presidential vote (and quite likely those of at least Florida and New Mexico) is simply not credible. George W. Bush's 'victory' appears to have resulted from multiple frauds - a GOP 'do-everything' strategy to win the state that swung the election.

In today's article, we list the top ten glaring flaws in the Ohio vote that have allowed Bush to gather the votes to 'win' the presidency in Ohio with an apparent margin of 118,775 votes - the result from an official recount that manually examined only 3 percent of ballots cast.

This list involves very large totals of uncounted, tainted or fraudulent votes. Taken together, they exceed Bush's margin of victory in Ohio.

These expert analyses are based on state and local Board of Election statistics, U.S. Census reports, and other public documents. They were not conducted with any assistance from John F. Kerry's campaign. All the conclusions presented can be re-checked among the wide range of documents posted at www.freepress.org under the Election 2004 department. The authors will also respond to specific journalistic inquiries at [email protected]. Additional key sources are specified below.

These flaws involve very large numbers of votes. But they cannot fully explain how the results were recorded on Election Day for one crucial reason: the paper and digital record trail needed to analyze the actual voting has been sealed from public scrutiny by Ohio's Republican Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell, who both administered the state's election and served as the co-chair of Ohio's 2004 Bush-Cheney campaign.

Blackwell and other Republican officials continue to discount such criticisms. Blackwell has written that the election ran "smoothly." His office has refused subpoenas requesting him to testify, terming them a form of "harassment." Ohio Republican Party Chairman Robert Bennett has said that this year's election had "fewer glitches" than previous ones. "We have bipartisan (election" boards and very specific rules and procedures," he says. "To have fraud within the counting process in Ohio, you would have to have massive collusion."

Nearly 85 percent of the state used paper ballots. Most were tabulated electronically - meaning an evidence trail exists, if it has not been destroyed or fatally compromised. But we have reason to believe this destruction has already occurred in a number of Ohio counties, rendering a full recount and audit impossible.

While the anomalies we have found in the Ohio vote are deep and serious, an in-depth study now indicates shocking parallels in New Mexico, which we will discuss in tomorrow's article.

The Bush-Cheney 'do-everything' strategy in Ohio covered a very wide range of tactics, from disenfranchisement of minority voters to discarding of ballots to tampered tabulators and much more.

Taken as a whole, this compendium of error, fraud, cover-up and contempt indicates that this was not a legitimate election, and is not worthy of being certified by the Congress of the United States:

1. More than 106,000 Ohio ballots remain uncounted. As certified by Blackwell, Ohio's official results say 92,672 regular ballots were cast without indicating a choice for president. This sum grows to 106,000 ballots when uncounted provisional ballots are included. There is no legal reason for not inspecting and counting each of these ballots. This figure does not include thousands of people who did not vote, despite intending to do so in Ohio's inner cities, due to a lack of voting machines, having no available ballots, intimidation, manipulation of registrations, denial of absentee ballots and other means of depriving American citizens of their rightful vote.



2. Most uncounted ballots come from regions and precincts where Kerry was strongest. In Hamilton County, 4,515 ballots or 51.64 percent of the uncounted county total, came from Cincinnati, where Kerry won 67.98 percent to Bush's 31.54 percent. In Cuyahoga County, 4,708 ballots or 44 percent of the county total came from Cleveland, where Kerry won all 65 precincts. In Summit County, 2,650 ballots or 48.72 percent of the county total came from Akron, which Kerry won 68.75 percent to Bush's 28.00 percent.



3. Of the 147,000 combined provisional and absentee ballots counted by hand after Election Day, Kerry received 54.46 percent of the vote. In the 10 largest Ohio counties, Kerry's margin was 4.24 to 8.92 percent higher than in the certified results, which were predominantly machine counted. As in New Mexico, where George W. Bush carried every precinct whose votes were counted with electronic optical scanning machines, John Kerry's vote count was significantly lower among ballots counted on Election Day using electronic tabulators.



4. Turnout inconsistencies reveal tens of thousands of Kerry votes were not simply recorded. Systematic mathematical scrutiny reveals that the certified results at the statewide and precinct-to-precinct level display key patterns against a backdrop of implausible results. Most striking is a pattern where turnout percentages (votes cast as a percentage of registered voters) in cities won by Kerry were 10 percentage points or more lower than in the regions won by Bush, a virtually impossible scenario.

In Franklin County, where Columbus is located, Kerry won 346 precincts to Bush's 125. The median Kerry precinct had 50.78 percent turnout, compared to 60.56 percent for Bush. Kerry's lower numbers are due to local election officials assigning more voting machines per capita to Republican-leaning suburbs than the Democrat-leaning inner city - a political decision and likely Voting Rights Act violation. If Kerry-majority precincts in Columbus had a 60 percent turnout, as recorded throughout the rest of the state, he would have netted an additional 17,000 votes.



5. Many certified turnout results in key regions throughout the state are simply not plausible, and all work to the advantage of Bush. In southern Perry County, two precincts reported turnouts of 124.4 and 124.0 percent of the registered voters. These impossible turnouts were nonetheless officially certified as part of the final recount by Blackwell. But in pro-Kerry Cleveland, there were certified precinct turnouts of 7.10, 13.15, 19.60, 21.01, 21.80, 24.72, 28.83 and 28.97 percents. Seven entire wards reported a turnout less than 50 percent. But if the actual Cleveland turnout was 60 percent, as registered statewide, Kerry would have netted an additional 22,000 votes. Kerry is also thought to have lost 7,000 votes in Toledo this way.



6. Due to computer flaws and vote shifting, there were numerous reports across Ohio of extremely troublesome electronic errors during the voting process and in the counting. In Youngstown, there were more than two-dozen Election Day reports of machines that switched or shifted on-screen displays of a vote for Kerry to a vote for Bush. In Cleveland, there were three precincts in which minor third-party candidates received 86, 92 and 98 percent of the vote respectively, an outcome completely out of synch with the rest of the state (a similar thing occurred during the contested election in Florida, 2000). This class of error points to more than machine malfunction, suggesting instead that votes are being electronically shifted from one candidate to another in the voting and counting stage. All reported errors favored Bush over Kerry.



7. In Miami County, two sets of results were submitted to state officials. The second, which padded Bush's margin, reported that 18,615 additional votes were counted, increasing Bush's total by exactly 16,000 votes. Miami County's turnout was up 20.86 percent from 2000, but only had experienced a population increase of 1.38 percent by 2004. Two Miami County precincts were certified with reported turnouts of 98.55 and 94.27 percent. In one of the precincts this would have required all but ten registered voters to have cast ballots. But an independent investigation has already collected affidavits of more than 10 registered voters that did not cast ballots on Nov. 2, indicating that Blackwell's officially certified vote count is simply impossible, which once again favoring Bush.

In Warren County, in southern Ohio, an unexplained Homeland Security alert was cited by Republican election board officials as a pretext for barring the media and independent observers from the vote count. In Warren and neighboring Butler and Clermont Counties, Bush won by a margin of 132,685 votes. He beat Gore in these counties in 2000 by 95,575 votes, meaning an implausible pickup of almost 40,000 votes.

But Bush's numbers meant 13,566 people who voted for C. Ellen Connally, the liberal Democratic candidate for Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice, also voted for Bush. In Butler Country, Bush officially was given 109,866 votes. But conservative GOP Chief Justice Moyer was given only 68,407, a negative discrepancy of more than 40,000 votes. Meanwhile, Connally was credited with 61,559 votes to John Kerry's 56,234. This would mean that while Bush vastly outpolled his Republican counterpart running for the Supreme Court, African-American female Democrat running for the Supreme Court on the Democratic side outpolled Kerry. By all accounts such an outcome is inconceivable. Again, it indicates a very significant and likely fraudulent shifting of votes to Bush.



8. Democratic voters were apparently targeted with provisional ballots. These ballots require voters to fill out extensive forms at the poll. Under extraordinary rules established by Blackwell these ballots were set to be discarded if even minor errors were committed. Poll watchers in Cleveland and Columbus have testified that most provisional ballots were given to minority and young voters. The same is true with presumed liberal college and university students. In Athens, where Ohio University is located, 8.59 percent of student ballots were provisional. At Kenyon College and Oberlin College, liberal arts institutions, there were severe shortages of voting machines when compared with nearby religious-affiliated schools. Students at Kenyon waited up to eleven hours to vote. Provisional ballots were also required of mostly African-American students at Wilberforce College.



9. Ohio's Election Day exit poll was more credible than the certified result, according to intense statistical analysis. In-depth studies by Prof. Ron Baiman of the University of Illinois at Chicago shows that Ohio's exit polls in Ohio and elsewhere were virtually certain to be more accurate than the final vote count as certified by Blackwell. Ohio's exit polls predicted a Kerry victory by percentages that exceeded their margin of error. Compared to the voter access, voting technology and vote counting problems in Ohio, the exit polls were far more systematic and reliable. Critics of the exit polls' accuracy say too many Democrats were sampled, but a detailed analysis of that assertion shows no credible evidence for it. The stark shift from exit polls favoring Kerry to final results in Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio all went in Bush's direction, and are, according to Baiman, a virtual impossibility, with odds as high as 150 million to one against.



10. The Ohio recount wasn't random or comprehensive and may have involved serious illegalities. Under Ohio law, 3 percent of the ballots in a precinct are examined by hand. If the numbers match what was counted on Election Day, then the rest of the ballots are compiled electronically. In many districts, Republican Secretary of State Blackwell chose the precincts to be counted in a partisan manner, weighing the choices toward precincts where there were no disputes while avoiding those being contested. Moreover, there have been numerous confirmed instances where employees of the private companies that manufactured the voting machines had access to the machines and the computer records before the recount occurred. In at least two counties, technicians from Diebold and Triad dismantled key parts of voting machines before they could be subjected to audits for recount. In some counties, vendor companies conducted the recount - not public election officials. At least one county - Shelby - has admitted to discarding key data before the recount could be taken. In Greene County unrecounted ballots were left unguarded in an unlocked building, rendering the recount moot.



These ten points are among the most serious clouding the electoral outcome in Ohio, but are only part of a larger pattern. Their correlation with similar evidence in New Mexico, Florida and elsewhere gives them added gravitas. Scores of sworn affidavits and the on-going work of teams of attorneys, statisticians and other experts have revealed far more points of contention and suspicion, many of which we will present in tomorrow's article.

The sources used for this report are available at www.freepress.org . The statistical analysis was primarily done by Richard Hayes Phillips, PhD. A transcript of his deposition in the election challenge lawsuit detailing these findings can be found at: www.freepress.org/images/departments/Dep_Phillips.pdf. The exit poll analysis was by Ron Baiman, PhD, and a transcript of the deposition describing his analysis can be found at: www.freepress.org/images/departments/Dep_Baiman.pdf. Additional material appears in court filings in Moss v. Bush and related legal actions filed with the Ohio Supreme Court.

Taken together, these ten points involve votes that cumulatively exceed Bush's 118,775 vote margin in the state.

These flaws must be thoroughly investigated before Congress ratifies the Electoral College. The legitimacy of the presidency and American Democracy is at stake. In tomorrow's article we will outline more of the evidence leading up to Thursday's historic vote.

Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman are co-authors of "Ohio's Stolen Election: Voices of the Disenfranchised, 2004," a book/film project from www.freepress.org . Tax-deductible donations are welcome there and at the Columbus Institute for Contemporary Journalism, 1240 Bryden Road, Columbus, OH 43205.

Bush Victory does not Compute (http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010405J.shtml)

[gldstwmn]

I plan on calling MY Senators and maybe a few of other people's Senators too!:]

I efaxed all of them. :laugh: :wavey:

[irishgrl]

what efax number did you use? I cant get thru to Boxer, her line is always busy...and Amber, we need to concentrate on Senators, there is already a member of the House to stand. Remember, we need both a Representative AND a Senator and we have the Rep....maybe several of them. What we NEED are Senators.

[gldstwmn]

what efax number did you use? I cant get thru to Boxer, her line is always busy...and Amber, we need to concentrate on Senators, there is already a member of the House to stand. Remember, we need both a Representative AND a Senator and we have the Rep....maybe several of them. What we NEED are Senators.

It's in this thread:http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=17499&page=2&pp=15

You can fax 6 times per day.

[irishgrl]

sent 5 separate efaxes, then tried to get fancy and send 1 efax to all and it didnt work. but at least I got 5 off....plus faxed my local paper, and told my Union Rep about it. This is HUGE folks, HUGE.

[strandinthewind]

No one is looking for a Kerry victory at this point. This is about putting and end to the disenfranchisement of minority voters and protesting the certification of the electoral votes from the state of Ohio where there were massive irregularities. The Secretary of State has refused to do anything about these irregularities. He was also chairman of the 2004 committee to reelect Bush/Cheney.
Conyers has put together a package for the Senators with the findings. As I said there is quite a bit. irishgirl has listed some of them I believe and I would be happy to list more. There is a lot of information. Is there anything specific you'd like to see?

No - and I wrote my two senators and my Congressman and all of the other ones in Georgia to tell them I thought what happened in Ohio was horrible and that they ought to be ashamed of themselves if they did not investigate it - because the foundation of our Republic was a stake if they just looked away out of blind partisanship and it also would make them crooked and sinners in the eyes of the same God they tout allegiance to.

I also sent W a letter saying essentially the same thing.

I was just curious if the Congressional committee had made official findings, etc.

Finally, I think anyone who had any hand in any illegal activities and even quasi-illegal ones (elec. voting machines with no record is a good example) ought to be hauled off to jail as well.

:mad:

So, I think we are all in the same boat here - in fact, I may even be more agitated than you :laugh: :laugh:

P.S. Thanks Mary for posting!!!!!!

[dissention]

I also sent W a letter saying essentially the same thing.

You could have spent your time more wisely by clipping your toenails or your nose hairs, dear. :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

You could have spent your time more wisely by clipping your toenails or your nose hairs, dear. :xoxo:

I know - but is was a symbolic gesture :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

SWWWWIIIISSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh :woohoo:

[amber]

what efax number did you use? I cant get thru to Boxer, her line is always busy...and Amber, we need to concentrate on Senators, there is already a member of the House to stand. Remember, we need both a Representative AND a Senator and we have the Rep....maybe several of them. What we NEED are Senators.
wait, there are only two senators from each state, and Feinstein is the other one. But there are many reps... :confused:

[irishgrl]

Amber, we in CA have two Senators, and 53 Representatives.
It only takes ONE Representative (from any state) and ONE Senator (again, from any state) to put this procedure into action, namely to consider the evidence and vote on whether to continue or not.
here is a link (http://www.house.gov/house/MemStateSearch.shtml#CA) to a site which lists them.

[sunmaiden]

Can you imagine living here and all the sh+t that went on. I was afraid that someone would try to stop me from voting. The R's were sending people to the booths to discredit voters for really stupid infractures. My friends in Columbus waited 6 hours in the rain to vote. It's friggin' BULL. Everything in those posts is true. It was a mess in Ohio on election day. I am still so mad! We had such a strong grass-roots campaign, and it was all dumped down the drain because of the tactics the Rs used to deny people from voting. :distress:

[irishgrl]

Sunmaiden, I cant imagine what it must have been like for you...I gotta say if anyone tried to interfere with MY vote I think they'd be singing in a higher octave. Best defense? Video Camera. point a camera in the thug's faces and watch them squirm! Got it on tape? call your local newspaper! Woo hoo! :blob1: :blob1: :blob1:
ok I go now.

[tynan88]

It was mentioned before but it is so true, if any government had enough balls they wouldn't recognise Bush's administration, I mean the US has no problem doing it to other countries when they feel that there has been vote tampering and things don't go their way, why won't it work both ways (coz u have the bombs btw, not because we respect you).

America in my opinion has no credibility in the international community and as far as I am concerned for the general American population as well, most you are totally ignorant to what is happening in your own country let along around the world.

How can any of you have the hide to go and try and "democratise" other nations when you can't get a sufficiently representative and fair system in palce in your own country!

For crying out loud, I could go on and on about American hypocrisy but I will stop there, but I believe it is South Park that says it best, "Three Quarters of The World Hate America Because America Doesn't Realise Three Quarters Of The World Hates America."

For Shame,
Tynan

[SuzeQuze]

Election 2004
By Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman
The FreePress.org

Monday 03 January 2005
Ten preliminary reasons why the Bush vote does not compute, and why Congress must investigate rather than certify the Electoral College (Part One of Two).

The presidential vote for George W. Bush does not compute.

By examining a very wide range of sworn testimonies from voters, polling officials and others close to the administration of the Nov. 2 election; by statistical analysis of the certified vote by mathematicians, election experts and independent research teams who have conducted detailed studies of the results in Ohio, New Mexico, Florida and elsewhere; from experts who studied the voting machines, tabulators and other electronic equipment on which a fair vote count has depended; and from a team of attorneys and others who have challenged the Ohio results; the freepress.org investigative team has compiled a portrait of an election whose true outcome must be investigated further by the Congress, the media and all Americans - because it was almost certainly not an honest victory for George W. Bush.
...
Bush Victory does not Compute (http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010405J.shtml)

Randi Rhodes was talking about this last nite. She was so upset, "Well, that's it, Kerry won Ohio." and read excerpts from this article over the air. She has been fighting by airing the data regarding election fraud, the FACTS. Yes, she is passionate, and liberal, but you can't argue with the facts. The most damning being that all cases of "mistakes" with the vote counts <i>favored Bush</i>. You do not have to be a mathemetician to know that it is not possible that this was an accident.

Incidentally, I was watching the Best of Will Farrel and some of his Bush impersonations are on there, including "Math is hard, I'm adding it to my axis of evil.." Too funny! Also, very sad and maddening, that this sketch keeps on ringing so true.

[irishgrl]

most you are totally ignorant to what is happening in your own country let along around the world.

The problem is, we are in the minority. That may be about to change. If the depth of fraud is exposed, and the desperation of a Party who will stop at nothing to seize power is brought to light, as I pray will happen with this upcoming Ohio Vote Fraud stand, then maybe we can begin to stem the hemhorraging that began in 2000.

as for this:
For crying out loud, I could go on and on about American hypocrisy but I will stop there, but I believe it is South Park that says it best, "Three Quarters of The World Hate America Because America Doesn't Realise Three Quarters Of The World Hates America."
Every single nation that gets into trouble of one kind or another looks to America for help. They either want our $$ or or military aid or our imports or our expertise or whatever. Puh-Leez. who is the real hypocrite?

[tynan88]

No no hypocrisy? We do ask for help we admit that, but now we can see the whole world coming together to help these Tsunami victims (The Australian government by the way just donated a Billion Dollars worth of Aid and Interest Free Loans today).

The point is that our request for help in situations doesn't give America the right to go acting like a Lone Ranger, I will be the first to admit Australia would have been lost without America's help in WWII, that doesn't give the American government right on the world though.

And in response to you agruing about what I said about Americans being ignorant, I did say MOST. Before I started frequenting here however, I did think it was all of them.

Tynan