Court backs firing of waitress without makeup

[gldstwmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/28/court.ruling.makeup.reut/index.html

SAN FRANCISCO, California (Reuters) -- A female bartender who refused to wear makeup at a Reno, Nevada, casino was not unfairly dismissed from her job, a U.S. federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

Darlene Jespersen, who had worked for nearly 20 years at a Harrah's Entertainment Inc casino bar in Reno, Nevada, objected to the company's revised policy that required female bartenders, but not men, to wear makeup.

A previously much-praised employee, Jespersen was fired in 2000 after the firm instituted a "Beverage Department Image Transformation" program and she sued, alleging sex discrimination.

In a 2-1 decision, a three-judge panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court ruling in favor of Harrah's. All three judges are males appointed by Democratic presidents.

"We have previously held that grooming and appearance standards that apply differently to women and men do not constitute discrimination on the basis of sex," Judge Wallace Tashima wrote for the majority.

He cited the precedent of a 1974 case in which the court ruled that a company can require men to have short hair but allow long hair on women.

The Lambda Legal Defense Fund, a gay rights group that backed Jespersen's suit, had argued that forcing female employees to have different standards than men was unlawful under rules, known as Title VII, against discrimination on race, color, religion, sex or national origin.

The ruling found, however, that the casino's appearance standards were no more burdensome for women than for men.

In a dissenting opinion, Judge Sidney Thomas backed the reasoning of the plaintiff. "Harrah's fired Jespersen because of her failure to conform to sex stereotypes, which is discrimination based on sex and is therefore impermissible under Title VII," he wrote.

"The distinction created by the majority opinion leaves men and women in services industries, who are more likely to be subject to policies like the Harrah's 'Personal Best' policy, without the protection that white-collar professionals receive," he wrote.

[amber]

Christ. :mad:

[strandinthewind]

This was a tough case. I think in the end, the court did the right thing. Thanks for posting.

[sara1998]

What a bunch of bull****. Anyone ever heard of a I-don't-wanna-do-anything-to-myself-today day?? What bastards. :mad:

[Nixxxed]

If I were that waitress, I would've gone completely Tammy Faye with my makeup in protest. Or worse ... Michael Jackson. :laugh:

I think this is pretty crappy.

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

[QUOTE=Nixxxed]If I were that waitress, I would've gone completely Tammy Faye with my makeup in protest. Or worse ... Michael Jackson. :laugh:

QUOTE]Yeah what she said.

[SuzeQuze]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/28/court.ruling.makeup.reut/index.html
...
The ruling found, however, that the casino's appearance standards were no more burdensome for women than for men...

How can this be true if the men do not have to wear makeup? Of course it is more burdensome for women. Do the men have to wear panty hose or bras? These things take time to put on. Do men typically need curling irons or blow dryers? This part of their finding just can't be true IMO.

Having said that, I almost never leave my house without makeup on, I'm just a girlie girl. But I don't think anyone should be required to wear it. Most bar tenders in that context just would, I wonder why she won't?

[ontheEdgeof17]

How can this be true if the men do not have to wear makeup? Of course it is more burdensome for women. Do the men have to wear panty hose or bras? These things take time to put on. Do men typically need curling irons or blow dryers? This part of their finding just can't be true IMO.

Taking 5 seconds to put on a bra is far from burdensome. Try shaving....it's a major pain in the ass. And some men do blow dry their hair. My hair is longer now and it is cold out so I blow dry mine.

[gldstwmn]

How can this be true if the men do not have to wear makeup? Of course it is more burdensome for women. Do the men have to wear panty hose or bras?

I had this one broad complaining one time because I do not wear panty hose. I haven't worn them since I was a waitress in the 80's. :laugh: She was trying to tell the manager that I was violating the dress code because I never wore hose with my skirts.
Corporate America-not for me. :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

Taking 5 seconds to put on a bra is far from burdensome. Try shaving....it's a major pain in the ass. And some men do blow dry their hair. My hair is longer now and it is cold out so I blow dry mine.

LOL! The bra thing is a stretch yeah. :laugh: We shave too but not our faces which does look like a pain. Legs and 'pits also ain't no picnic.

[strandinthewind]

Taking 5 seconds to put on a bra is far from burdensome. Try shaving....it's a major pain in the ass. And some men do blow dry their hair. My hair is longer now and it is cold out so I blow dry mine.

You know damn good and well this is a losing argument no matter how true it may be. The fillies just take 20 minutes to do what the guys do in five. I cite the ladies roon ritual and the hours on hours of total time I have been kept waiting as an example :laugh: :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

You know damn good and well this is a losing argument no matter how true it may be. The fillies just take 20 minutes to do what the guys do in five. I cite the ladies roon ritual and the hours on hours of total time I have been kept waiting as an example :laugh: :laugh:


It's their own damn fault. Pee and get the hell out. How hard is that?

[SuzeQuze]

I had this one broad complaining one time because I do not wear panty hose. I haven't worn them since I was a waitress in the 80's. :laugh: She was trying to tell the manager that I was violating the dress code because I never wore hose with my skirts.
Corporate America-not for me. :laugh:

What a jackass tattle tale, what was her problem? Katie Couric doesn't even wear hose anymore, they're just awful.

[strandinthewind]

It's their own damn fault. Pee and get the hell out. How hard is that?

Child - you are preaching to the choir :laugh: Then, when confronted with this FACT - they pout or let you have it. It is a no win argument - thus, I wait without comment!!!! :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

It's their own damn fault. Pee and get the hell out. How hard is that?

LOL, ya bast*rd! It just takes longer for us due to anatomical constraints.

[strandinthewind]

LOL, ya bast*rd! It just takes longer for us due to anatomical constraints.

BS - I used to know this hellcat in law school who would, when drunk (which was often :laugh: ) storm into the men's room pift her leg and pee in the urinal :eek: Needless to say, she was a favorite party guest!!!!! :laugh: :wavey:

[ontheEdgeof17]

BS - I used to know this hellcat in law school who would, when drunk (which was often :laugh: ) storm into the men's room pift her leg and pee in the urinal :eek: Needless to say, she was a favorite party guest!!!!! :laugh: :wavey:

Gotta love my mom! :xoxo:

[SuzeQuze]

BS - I used to know this hellcat in law school who would, when drunk (which was often :laugh: ) storm into the men's room pift her leg and pee in the urinal :eek: Needless to say, she was a favorite party guest!!!!! :laugh: :wavey:

Hmm, with urine on her legs and all? To each his own I guess. :shrug: ;)

[SuzeQuze]

Gotta love my mom! :xoxo:

LOL! Curtis I wish you could come by on New Year's Eve cuz I'm making appletinis which are delicious but deadly.

[strandinthewind]

Gotta love my mom! :xoxo:

ROTMFFLMAO :laugh: :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

LOL! Curtis I wish you could come by on New Year's Eve cuz I'm making appletinis which are delicious but deadly.


I just might. I never pass up free alcohol. :woohoo:

[strandinthewind]

Hmm, with urine on her legs and all? To each his own I guess. :shrug: ;)

I swear to you she never got it on her legs. Then again, this chick could also, when intoxicated, sit on the floor, put a beer or cocktail on her head, and use her feet to drink it :eek: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Did I also mention she was WILDLY intelligent and graduated at the head of the class and is a helluva lawyer to this day!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ontheEdgeof17]

I swear to you she never got it on her legs. Then again, this chick could also, when intoxicated, sit on the floor, put a beer or cocktail on her head, and use her feet to drink it :eek: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Did I also mention she was WILDLY intelligent and graduated at the head of the class and is a helluva lawyer to this day!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh. That's not my mom then. It's Marsha Clark. She's a hoot. :wavey:

[amber]

Child - you are preaching to the choir :laugh: Then, when confronted with this FACT - they pout or let you have it. It is a no win argument - thus, I wait without comment!!!! :laugh:
you're so foul. we have to pull down our pants, or skirt and hose, then underwear too, then we have to wipe, then we have to put all our stuff back on.
You have to whip it out, pee, tuck it back in.
duh?

[SuzeQuze]

I swear to you she never got it on her legs. Then again, this chick could also, when intoxicated, sit on the floor, put a beer or cocktail on her head, and use her feet to drink it :eek: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Did I also mention she was WILDLY intelligent and graduated at the head of the class and is a helluva lawyer to this day!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy sh*t, she sounds awesome. Isn't it a law that lawyers drink alcohol? Don't they even have to keep some liquor in their desks or face disbarment?

[SuzeQuze]

you're so foul. we have to pull down our pants, or skirt and hose, then underwear too, then we have to wipe, then we have to put all our stuff back on.
You have to whip it out, pee, tuck it back in.
duh?

This is why I love you, I say "anatomical constraints" and you say everything else, :lol: :lol: :xoxo:

[amber]

Holy sh*t, she sounds awesome. Isn't it a law that lawyers drink alcohol? Don't they even have to keep some liquor in their desks or face disbarment?
Yeah. It's how they dull their conscience for charging what they do. :D

[strandinthewind]

you're so foul. we have to pull down our pants, or skirt and hose, then underwear too, then we have to wipe, then we have to put all our stuff back on.
You have to whip it out, pee, tuck it back in.
duh?

My word - how do you all do ALL of that in less than 30 minutes :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

you're so foul. we have to pull down our pants, or skirt and hose, then underwear too, then we have to wipe, then we have to put all our stuff back on.
You have to whip it out, pee, tuck it back in.
duh?


Grow a penis already.

[strandinthewind]

Holy sh*t, she sounds awesome. Isn't it a law that lawyers drink alcohol? Don't they even have to keep some liquor in their desks or face disbarment?

Yes - let me just say Bar Assoc. conventions are booze fests - BUT let me also say conv. of accountants are the wildest - they are these little balding dynamos :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Grow a penis already.

Well, she seemingly has the balls :cool:

:wavey: :wavey: Amber :wavey: :wavey:

(that was BTW a compliment!!!! )

[SuzeQuze]

Yes - let me just say Bar Assoc. conventions are booze fests - BUT let me also say conv. of accountants are the wildest - they are these little balding dynamos :laugh:

Really? Interesting, I thought they were squares. I do know this hot chick accountant who dates a guy in this local band I like, but I digress... Going to bed now, night! :wavey:

PS, I don't have a feather bed but I do have a down comforter which I LOVE. But I now NEED a featherbed. :rolleyes:

[bikerchic]

You have to whip it out, pee, tuck it back in.
duh?
You forgot shake, then tuck it back in :laugh:

[amber]

You forgot shake, then tuck it back in :laugh:
It's basically all one motion..... :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

It's basically all one motion..... :laugh:

have you seen this personally - personally, I have used several different techiniques :laugh: :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

have you seen this personally - personally, I have used several different techiniques :laugh: :laugh:Good God--this thread got weird fast. :shocked:

[amber]

have you seen this personally - personally, I have used several different techiniques :laugh: :laugh:
yes, i've studied the techniques....
ah, you're a multishaker.... :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Good God--this thread got weird fast. :shocked:

well - I am just trying to assert that the out - void - shake - in theory is a blatant rumor started by malicious time consuming women trying to diminish the agony they impose on the male population by making them wait for HOURS while they go to the can :laugh: :rolleyes: :laugh:

[bikerchic]

Good God--this thread got weird fast. :shocked:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[strandinthewind]

yes, i've studied the techniques....
ah, you're a multishaker.... :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Lord Child - the roads we go down in the search for knowledge :cool:

[amber]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Lord Child - the roads we go down in the search for knowledge :cool:
roads we go down? uh, yeah..."roads"...

[bikerchic]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/28/court.ruling.makeup.reut/index.html

SAN FRANCISCO, California (Reuters) -- A female bartender who refused to wear makeup at a Reno, Nevada, casino was not unfairly dismissed from her job, a U.S. federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.
I'd like to see a picture of this chic.

[strandinthewind]

I'd like to see a picture of this chic.

me tooooo - I wonder if she'd wear make up for THAT LOL :rolleyes: :cool: :shrug:

[ryan8472]

In a 2-1 decision, a three-judge panel of the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court ruling in favor of Harrah's. All three judges are males appointed by Democratic presidents.

"We have previously held that grooming and appearance standards that apply differently to women and men do not constitute discrimination on the basis of sex," Judge Wallace Tashima wrote for the majority.


<img src="http://tinypic.com/147fhx">

I just love that pic. ;)

What a totally ****ty ruling. :distress: :mad:

[strandinthewind]

Well Jason our marriage shall work perfectly. I usually take less time than my male friends and am left standing there for a minute while I wait outside the Mens. And perhaps my ex was unusual but he did often sit there for half an hour and had a text book he bought for the purpose of reading whilst in the bathroom. I also have 5 - 10 minute showers and you won't have to put up with a second hand 'TOTTM' experience. Ours shall be a blissful marriage, but just quit generalising because it's pissing me off. Of the things you've alledged that women do (and granted I'm not a 'woman' so much as a 'girl'), I am guilty of none. One thing though, I don't wear make-up so don't actually expect me look good. I'll see you at the altar then.

Well, that is promising :nod:

I, on the other hand, am quite fussy about things. But, a few cocktails later and I could care a less and am usually leading an entire bar in song :eek:

So, there is that to look forward to :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

My dearest husband Jason, you still here?

I am here!!!!!!!!!!!! Where are you? :laugh:

[skcin]

BS - I used to know this hellcat in law school who would, when drunk (which was often :laugh: ) storm into the men's room pift her leg and pee in the urinal :eek: Needless to say, she was a favorite party guest!!!!! :laugh: :wavey:


WOW - talk about talent!

[SuzeQuze]

I timed it this morning and it takes about 25 seconds to put on a bra. :wavey:

I know, issues. ;)

[ontheEdgeof17]

I timed it this morning and it takes about 25 seconds to put on a bra. :wavey:



See. I was only 20 seconds off. :blob2:

[skcin]

Try shaving....it's a major pain in the ass.

OMG, you shave your legs too?!?! ;)



Yeah, yeah, I know, most men have to shave their face, some will say chicks don't have to shave their legs. I personally disagree.

[bikerchic]

[QUOTE=ontheEdgeof17] Try shaving....it's a major pain in the ass. [QUOTE]

You shave your ass??! :shocked:

[ontheEdgeof17]

OMG, you shave your legs too?!?! ;)


Just from the knee, down. I wanna look good in my skirts. That's all.

[strandinthewind]

Just from the knee, down. I wanna look good in my skirts, that's all.

Aren't you essentially hairless from your cranium down anyway :shrug:

[skcin]

Just from the knee, down. I wanna look good in my skirts. That's all.

You really should start wearing hippie peasant skirts - a lot less work! :nod:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Aren't you essentially hairless from your cranium down anyway :shrug:


I'm growing hair. I finally hit puberty at 22. :blob1:

[skcin]

I'm growing hair. I finally hit puberty at 22. :blob1:


You're not alone, my dear boy. My 31 year old hubby is pretty much hairless too. He can't grow a full mustache (unlike his brother, who has looked like Magnum P.I. since he was 13) or beard and his calves & shins are about bald. Not much chest hair either.

Not that I care, body hair in general is yucky, IMO. As long as there's hair on your head & "special places," that's enough for me! :p

[ontheEdgeof17]

You're not alone, my dear boy. My 31 year old hubby is pretty much hairless too. He can't grow a full mustache (unlike his brother, who has looked like Magnum P.I. since he was 13) or beard and his calves & shins are about bald. Not much chest hair either.

Not that I care, body hair in general is yucky, IMO. As long as there's hair on your head & "special places," that's enough for me! :p

:lol:

I cannot grow a beard/goatee for the life of me! There are patches on my jaw line that does not grow hair. When I go a few days without shaving, I look terrible. It's rather embarassing to the male species.

[bikerchic]

Not that I care, body hair in general is yucky, IMO. As long as there's hair on your head & "special places," that's enough for me! :p

Paula, then you wouldn't like Blair, I actually just took a picture of him this morning in bed.....

[SuzeQuze]

:lol:

I cannot grow a beard/goatee for the life of me! There are patches on my jaw line that does not grow hair. When I go a few days without shaving, I look terrible. It's rather embarassing to the male species.

Omigod, you're complaining about shaving a few strands??? Ugh!!!

[strandinthewind]

Paula, then you wouldn't like Blair, I actually just took a picture of him this morning in bed.....


AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Paula, then you wouldn't like Blair, I actually just took a picture of him this morning in bed.....


MY EYES! MY EYES!

[bikerchic]

MY EYES! MY EYES!
I thought you'd like that Edge, don't be jealous now, I make love to that everynite :laugh: :xoxo:

[skcin]

I thought you'd like that Edge, don't be jealous now, I make love to that everynite :laugh: :xoxo:

You are so going to hell for that one, you crazy Canuck!

Is that the proper spelling of Canuck, my dearest neighbour to the north? :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I thought you'd like that Edge, don't be jealous now, I make love to that everynite :laugh: :xoxo:


All I am saying is that I'm glad it's you and not me. :angel:

[bikerchic]

You are so going to hell for that one, you crazy Canuck!

Is that the proper spelling of Canuck, my dearest neighbour to the north? :laugh:

:shrug: Hey, we Canuck's have to stay warm up here ya know, eh, that's why I don't shave my legs all winter either.

Yes that is the proper spelling of Canuck and neighbour :nod: :laugh:

[bikerchic]

All I am saying is that I'm glad it's you and not me. :angel:
And it takes me about half the morning to pick the hair out of my teeth :lol:
Hey, they don't call me bikerchic for nothin :nod: :laugh:

[bikerchic]

Hey look at the # of my last post......how appropriate :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

You Ledgies are depraved. :distress:























:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :wavey: