Pale Male - I hope he doo doos on their heads

[strandinthewind]

The people have one of the most incredible things in their building and they destroy it :mad: I mean I get that no one wants pidgeon carcasses on the sidewalk, but I can assure you that this building (one of the the most exclusive in Manhattan - I think you need $100 million in disposable assets to live there or something like that) cleans that sidewalk several times a day and NONE of the residents ever do it. As for the bird dropping, HELLO it is NYC - get over it. I hope the hawks are alright!!!

from www.nytimes.com

December 8, 2004
New York Celebrities Evicted on Fifth Ave., Feathers and All
By THOMAS J. LUECK

A nest constructed a decade ago by red-tailed hawks 12 stories above Central Park, creating an unlikely wildlife habitat that has delighted bird lovers from around the world, was removed yesterday, apparently by workers for its host co-op apartment building.

City officials and naturalists reacted with anger, even though there appeared to be little legal recourse for the nest's destruction.

Experts said that the fate of a family of uncommonly large and resilient birds, which have reproduced prolifically from the nest, had been thrown into doubt. So was that of the nest's most famous red-tailed resident, Pale Male, who arrived at the building in 1993 and, according to detailed records kept by several bird-watchers, has sired 23 youngsters.

"I am so outraged that they would do this without so much as a by your leave," said Mary Tyler Moore, who has lived for 15 years in the co-op at 927 Fifth Avenue, at 74th Street, where the nest was built in 1993 above a cornice in clear view of Central Park.

"These birds just kept coming back to the edge of the building, and people kept coming back to see them," said Ms. Moore, who recalled at first craning her neck outside one of her windows to look up at the bottom of the nest. In more recent years, she said, she has strolled frequently across Fifth Avenue to Central Park for a better view.

"This was something we like to talk about: a kinder, gentler world, and now it's gone," Ms. Moore said last night.

Exactly why the nest was destroyed was unclear. A man who answered a call to 927 Fifth Avenue's management office last night said no one was available for comment.

But Ms. Moore said other residents of the building had objected to large bird droppings and, occasionally, the carcasses of pigeons - which hawks prey upon - that landed on the sidewalk in front of their lobby. She said her husband had attended a recent co-op board meeting, and had been informed of its all-but-unanimous decision to remove the nest, even though he had objected to the move.

Adrian Benepe, the commissioner of the Department of Parks and Recreation, said his staff was unable yesterday to determine whether removing the nest violated any state or federal wildlife-protection laws, and would explore the matter again today.

"Our domain doesn't extend to the tops of people's roofs," Mr. Benepe said. "Regardless of legality, I am concerned about whether this was ethical, or the right thing to do."

The story of Pale Male and his offspring has been well documented. Marie Winn, whose 1998 book on the subject, "Red-Tails in Love," was the basis of a PBS documentary called "Pale Male," said yesterday that the nest had been removed once before, in 1993, the year it was built.

She said the nest was built amid metal spikes that were placed on the 12th-floor cornice to discourage pigeons from roosting, and that the spikes had the unintended effect of providing a strong structure to brace a hawks' nest against the wind. After it was destroyed in 1993, Pale Male rebuilt, Ms. Winn said.

That experience, she said, might provide evidence that Pale Male will again rebuild.

But another of the bird's most ardent observers and proponents, Lincoln Karim, an engineer who has observed the nest for years with a telescope from Central Park, said he had seen workers take away the spikes yesterday.

Ms. Winn said the federal Fish and Wildlife Service ruled in the 1990's that the nest was covered by a treaty adopted in 1918 to protect migratory bird habitats and could not be destroyed.

But she said that more recent interpretations of the federal rules may allow people to interfere with migratory bird nests if they do so in the winter, when the nests are not used to raise offspring. Phone messages left for officials at the agency late yesterday were not answered.

The nesting season for Pale Male and his current mate, Lola, does not begin until January or later, and eggs are normally laid in the nest in March, Ms. Winn said.

But even now, Pale Male, Lola and other red-tailed hawks can be seen performing courtship rituals that involve flying in circles over Central Park.

Whether they will attempt to rebuild the nest at 927 Fifth Avenue remains in doubt, she said, particularly because its metal supports have been removed. Even if the nest is restored, she said, the experience of 1993 does not bode well for the prospect that more offspring would be hatched next year.

Ms. Winn said two years passed before Pale Male produced offspring after the last time the nest was destroyed.


Colin Moynihan contributed reporting for this article.

[GardenStateGirlie]

What the hell is wrong with people?!? Seriously, do you know how many animals take huge ****s on peoples lawns everyday?! Are we going to go out there and kill them? Lame.

[Nixxxed]

:mad: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! :mad:

I've seen the PBS documentary several times -- I just happen upon it, and I can't stop watching. Truly one of the most inspiring (and comforting) films I've ever seen.

Forget pooping on their heads -- I hope he flies down and scratches out some eyes and rips out some hair. :thumbsup:

Rebuild, Pale Male, rebuild!!!

[amber]

How gross. it figures. humans are disgusting. :mad:

[GODDESS6]

Forget pooping on their heads -- I hope he flies down and scratches out some eyes and rips out some hair. :thumbsup:

Rebuild, Pale Male, rebuild!!!

i so agree w/ u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~ how sad is that 2 mess w/ innocent animals!!! :distress:

[strandinthewind]

I mean yes the hawks are an inconvenience and yes people are staring at their building (which almost all Upper East Side New Yorker's HATE :laugh: ) - but COME ON - these birds are like a National Treasure. They should be HONORED the brids are there instead of throwing them out.

I hope the city, state, or Feds. find a way to fine them MILLIONS of $$$$$

BASTARDS!!!! :mad:

[strandinthewind]

BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
___________________________________________________

Hawks Try to Return to N.Y. Building Nest

Wednesday, December 08, 2004

NEW YORK — They can't go home again, but on Wednesday two world-famous hawks evicted from their nest atop a posh Fifth Avenue building were trying to do just that.

"I heard the cry of a hawk, I looked up and I saw Lola, the female, soaring up Fifth Avenue," said Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe, who visited the former site of the nest on a building where actress Mary Tyler Moore (search) is among the residents.

Across the avenue, Lola's mate, Pale Male, was sighted in a Central Park (search) tree.

"They were discombobulated, flying around in an agitated way," Benepe said. Lola was circling her former nest, carrying twigs to try to rebuild it. Later, her mate was seen perched in the tree with a pigeon he had caught.

The urban drama began to unfold Tuesday, in the rain, when workmen raised a scaffold to the top of the building and tore out the nest that lay over an arched cornice, anchored by spikes originally intended to keep pigeons from depositing their droppings. The workers removed the spikes too.

For the past nine years, thousands of bird lovers have come to see to the nest on the 12th-floor ledge that's been home to Pale Male, so named for his plumage. There, he fathered 25 chicks with a succession of mates — the last three fledglings in June.

The hawks gained fame through television specials and a book, "Red-Tails in Love."

The raptors are no strangers to city life though they normally nest in trees. There is no previous record of a pair taking up permanent residence on a high-rise building.

The birds are not merely a spectacle of nature, however, said Alex Matthiessen, executive director of the Riverkeeper environmental organization. They are natural predators, helping limit the rat population in Central Park.

Bird watchers and neighbors were angry and dismayed by the nest's destruction, which apparently was done on orders of the building's co-op board.

Brown Harris Stevens Property Management Services issued a statement Wednesday saying that they do not own the property and had acted "on behalf of the cooperative building owners in a management capacity. ... The building researched and carried out the removal of the nest during an inactive period as a safety precaution."

"What strikes me is the selfishness of a small group of residents who are scarcely affected, but have robbed thousands of people, including children, of the pleasure of these magnificent birds, right by Central Park," Matthiessen said. "These animals are a wonderful show of how nature can exist in the city. This was a violent, disruptive act."

But there was not much parks authorities or environmentalists could do: Unless a nest contains hatching eggs or small chicks, it is not illegal to remove it from private property.

Benepe said he hopes neighbors erect their own anti-pigeon spikes, perhaps luring Pale Male and Lola to build a new nest.

"Hopefully, there will be a more receptive welcoming board," Benepe said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140947,00.html

[amber]

thanks for posting. That made me cry, of course. But i hope the neighbors build something...imagine coming home and someone took your house down... :(

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

Mary Tyler Moore lives in that building. She was very upset about it. I hope the people in charge of having it removed get crabs on they’re nuts. No lobsters. :nod:

[dissention]

The people have one of the most incredible things in their building and they destroy it :mad: I mean I get that no one wants pidgeon carcasses on the sidewalk, but I can assure you that this building (one of the the most exclusive in Manhattan - I think you need $100 million in disposable assets to live there or something like that) cleans that sidewalk several times a day and NONE of the residents ever do it. As for the bird dropping, HELLO it is NYC - get over it. I hope the hawks are alright!!!


Blame your buddy Paula Zahn's hubby, he's the culprit!!!!!!! ;)

[strandinthewind]

Blame your buddy Paula Zahn's hubby, he's the culprit!!!!!!! ;)

He is on the co-op board :shrug: (I am asking bc I do not know :cool: )

[dissention]

He is on the co-op board :shrug: (I am asking bc I do not know :cool: )

He's the head of it. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

He's the head of it. :nod:

REALLY :eek: How did you find that out? Co-op boards are notoriously private :eek: Even so though - I think Paula would have disagreed with that - of course I have nothing to base that on :laugh:

[takenbythesky]

He's the head of it. :nod:
Well then, he just might get a flaming sack of hawk doo doo on his doorstep... :laugh:
-Justin

[dissention]

REALLY :eek: How did you find that out? Co-op boards are notoriously private :eek: Even so though - I think Paula would have disagreed with that - of course I have nothing to base that on :laugh:

Olbermann spilled the beans this evening. :nod: Showed a nice big photo of Frau Von Zahn.

[SuzeQuze]

thanks for posting. That made me cry, of course. But i hope the neighbors build something...imagine coming home and someone took your house down... :(

This is exactly how I see it. These richies can pay someone to clean their bathroom but cannot find someone to hose off the street. I'ts re-g*dd*mned-diculous!!!! NO really, I saw this on Regis this morning and I was so pissed. Like it's so hard. :confused:

I am feeding some poor homeless kitties that live on my company's property (no one else "sees" them). But a hawk, oh man, if they perched outside my window, I would do everything in my power to be sure I was in that place until my dying day. And those kitties too, though they do not live on my ledge, they can count on the food from my hand.

[amber]

This is exactly how I see it. These richies can pay someone to clean their bathroom but cannot find someone to hose off the street. I'ts re-g*dd*mned-diculous!!!! NO really, I saw this on Regis this morning and I was so pissed. Like it's so hard. :confused:

I am feeding some poor homeless kitties that live on my company's property (no one else "sees" them). But a hawk, oh man, if they perched outside my window, I would do everything in my power to be sure I was in that place until my dying day. And those kitties too, though they do not live on my ledge, they can count on the food from my hand.
:xoxo: :xoxo:
I love you. :D
My dad feeds all the feral kitties at the mill he works at, too... :angel:

[strandinthewind]

This is exactly how I see it. These richies can pay someone to clean their bathroom but cannot find someone to hose off the street. I'ts re-g*dd*mned-diculous!!!! NO really, I saw this on Regis this morning and I was so pissed. Like it's so hard. :confused:

I am feeding some poor homeless kitties that live on my company's property (no one else "sees" them). But a hawk, oh man, if they perched outside my window, I would do everything in my power to be sure I was in that place until my dying day. And those kitties too, though they do not live on my ledge, they can count on the food from my hand.

Again, I know this ilk. I know this one old lady who has her butler wipe her dog's ass after it defecates :eek: So, while that is her right and she certainly does not live in this building, do not hand me that CRAP (no pun intended :cool: ) that the myraid of staff in this building cannot clean the already FILTHY NYC sidewalk :mad:

I think the Board of the building, whose opinion on this I readily admit may be different from the other residents, did not want people looking at their building. All I have to say is the "law of threes" indicates that when you use your power for bad, it will come back on you threefold :nod: JERKS :mad:

[SuzeQuze]

Again, I know this ilk. I know this one old lady who has her butler wipe her dog's ass after it defecates :eek: So, while that is her right and she certainly does not live in this building, do not hand me that CRAP (no pun intended :cool: ) that the myraid of staff in this building cannot clean the already FILTHY NYC sidewalk :mad:

I think the Board of the building, whose opinion on this I readily admit may be different from the other residents, did not want people looking at their building. All I have to say is the "law of threes" indicates that when you use your power for bad, it will come back on you threefold :nod: JERKS :mad:

Some folks believe that it is TENFOLD, so may those ass munchers get it a gazillionfold.

[SuzeQuze]

:xoxo: :xoxo:
I love you. :D
My dad feeds all the feral kitties at the mill he works at, too... :angel:

Thanks sweetie. My brother says that there are some at his work too that folks feed. I cannot believe how many pp drop off kittens at work. I so wish I could catch them, ugh.

My kittens are adorable, I took pics of them last week and will show when I get them developed. Two are tiger striped and one is black and white with the cutest pattern. I wish I could take them in.

[sparky]

This makes me wish for a special circle in hell reserved for the idiotic and cruel - these yahoos would certainly be roasting in it.
Kudos to Mary - she is always on the right side. Gotta love her.

[strandinthewind]

December 11, 2004
No Fighting the Co-op Board, Even With Talons
By THOMAS J. LUECK and JENNIFER 8. LEE

hey gathered on Oct. 19 for a ritual known to thousands of New York co-op owners, the annual meeting. The board president, Richard Cohen, and his wife, the newscaster Paula Zahn, threw open their second-floor apartment overlooking Central Park for the occasion. Quickly, the discussion focused on a huge and untidy red-tailed hawk, known famously as Pale Male, which had been nesting on the building's facade for a decade.

The building, 927 Fifth Avenue, is among the city's most sumptuous - apartments behind the neo-Italian renaissance facade occupy entire floors, or two, and are worth well over $10 million. The roughly 10 people at the meeting included Robert A. Belfer, the founder of Belco Oil & Gas and a former director of the Enron Corporation; Dr. Robert Schwager, a plastic surgeon with offices on the ground floor; and Dr. Robert Levine, a Manhattan cardiologist who is married to Mary Tyler Moore.

Some shareholders had long complained about Pale Male and his mate, Lola, whose nest of twigs and small branches had grown to eight feet across a cornice outside the building's 12th floor.

The hawks were hardly hygienic, preying on pigeons and rats, sometimes dropping bloody carcasses on the roof or sidewalk. And bird watchers were constantly looking up with their cameras and high-powered binoculars.

The nest, board members said, had to go. There would be no vote among shareholders. Several people familiar with the discussions said it was Mr. Cohen who had headed the effort, even though his wife had once proclaimed her affection for the birds on television.

The building's management company, Brown Harris Stevens Property Management, had warned of a public backlash. "We told Richard it would be extremely controversial," said Noreen McKenna, a Brown Harris Stevens agent who serves as secretary to the board.

The story of Pale Male, how he came to live at one of Manhattan's most exclusive addresses and then was sent away, is one of wealth and fame meeting nature and instinct, of an obscure international treaty researched and clarified, and of anger among those who live in an elegant building where, Ms. Moore now says, relations have become frosty.

Pale Male had adopted Central Park as his home and feeding ground, had prospered for 11 years, siring 23 hawks, and no one knows whether he will rebuild a nest and stay, or simply fly away.

At the very least, his predicament serves as a reminder of an immutable force, perhaps peculiar to New York City: the power of a co-op board.

At the meeting, Dr. Levine stood up to object, but not on his own behalf.

"Dr. Levine was vocal," recalled Dr. Schwager, who described the Oct. 19 meeting. Neither he nor Dr. Levine is on the board. "He said, 'I can tell you categorically that Mary Tyler Moore is opposed to this.' "

Dr. Schwager joined in: "I said 'This will cause a major commotion in New York if you do this.' "

Both doctors were right.

Since workers removed the nest on Tuesday, dangling on a window-washing platform and shoving Pale Male's carefully foraged twigs into garbage bags, the building has been the focus of searing anger from those around the city and nation who saw the hawk as an emblem of raw nature and perseverance in a densely populated urban setting. Bird lovers have camped outside, held vigils and chanted in anger, occasionally joined by Ms. Moore.

Both Pale Male and Lola have been observed circling their cornice, and landing with bits of twigs and tree branches in what appeared to experts on the ground as a futile attempt to rebuild. Their nest-building may be stymied because metal spikes that held their previous nest in place have also been removed.

Mr. Cohen, a real estate developer, spoke publicly about the matter for the first time yesterday and defended the co-op, on the corner of East 74th Street. "Every year this became more problematic," he said of the nest, calling the decision the result of a consensus and flatly denying he had railroaded it through.

He called the eviction a "last resort" and said that board members believed the birds would thrive elsewhere, and quickly. "It takes a week to 10 days to rebuild a nest. Trees fall in nature. They lose nests. They are resilient animals."

Also yesterday, Maureen Wren, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Environmental Conservation, said the agency was working with the New York City Audubon Society to protect the hawks and determining whether any state laws had been violated.

The Audubon Society said that the co-op board has agreed to meet with it on Monday to discuss options. Possibilities include replacement of the spikes on the ledge or the construction of a platform elsewhere on the building's exterior.

Last night, about 40 hawk supporters gathered in the rain bearing photographs of the hawks and a placard that read "Honk 4 Hawks." Ms. Moore, whose apartment is for sale for $18.5 million, was skeptical about the prospects for an amicable resolution. "These are not reversible type people," she said of her fellow apartment owners. "They just don't want the birds here."

Said Dr. Schwager, "This building is unbelievably conservative and reserved. I think, should we all buy lottery tickets, there is a better chance we would win."

The eviction of Pale Male was long in coming, and had been tried once before. The hawk's longevity in his co-op nest was due primarily to a federal environmental treaty, signed by the United States, Canada, Russia, and other nations in 1918, that was intended to protect the habitats of several species of migratory birds, including red-tailed hawks, from poachers who sought birds for food or for their feathers.

The treaty, administered by the federal Fish and Wildlife Service, was invoked in 1993 when the board of 927 Fifth Avenue removed Pale Male's nest for the first time. The removal came only months after the hawk had built the nest on his 12th-floor cornice, and his mate at the time had tried unsuccessfully to hatch eggs.

Marie Winn, a bird watcher and author, whose 1998 book about Pale Male and his offspring, "Red-Tails in Love," became the basis for a public television documentary, was one of those who jumped to the hawks' defense in 1993. "They put up a scaffolding and took the nest down in a plastic bag," she said. "I got the workers to hand it over to me. I put in my bicycle basket, and took it to a secret place in the park."

Then, she said, she contacted officials of the Fish and Wildlife Service, who concluded that removing the nest violated the 1918 treaty.

The federal agency "put fear and trembling into their hearts" at 927 Fifth Avenue, Ms. Winn said. Board members at the co-op "promised to never remove it again, although they have always wanted to," she said.

Their opportunity arrived in April 2003, when the federal agency issued what it called a "clarification" to the migratory bird treaty. Instead of a complete ban on the removal or destruction of nests, it said the nests were protected only when they were being used to hatch or raise offspring.

The law "does not contain any prohibitions that applies to the destruction of a migratory bird nest alone (without birds or eggs)," said a memorandum spelling out the rule.

Federal officials said this week that the clarification was intended to ensure that different species are treated uniformly, and some of the birds, like robins, simply abandon their nests after their chicks are raised.

On Dec. 9, 2003, Ms. McKenna submitted an application, with photographs, to the Fish and Wildlife Service to remove Pale Male's nest. "The nest has caused deterioration of the building's canopy from bird droppings," she wrote. "In addition, the hawks bring live prey to the nest where it is killed and torn for feeding." She said the result was a danger of contamination, Lyme disease and West Nile virus.

The application included a report by James E. McCosker, a building engineer who inspected the building. He described the nest as "massive," and said it posed a danger to pedestrians because it was directly above the building's entrance.

"This ain't a regular nest," Mr. McCosker said in an interview. "How would you like to have a bird's nest 8 feet long and 3 feet wide overhanging the edge of the building by a foot?"

On April 30, Fish and Wildlife Service officials responding in writing, saying that no permit was needed to remove the nest.

"We had no knowledge that this was a famous pair of birds," said Diane Pence, the chief of the agency's division of migratory birds for the northeastern states, in an interview on Thursday.

"It was just an address in New York City to us," she said, but added that the position of the agency would not have been different if the nest was in a less prominent location.

Then came the October meeting, and finally, on Tuesday, workers came to take the nest down.

Lincoln Karim, a 43-year-old engineer who has been among the most diligent bird watchers in tracking Pale Male and his offspring (at the Web site www.palemale.com), said he saw it happen at 2:30 p.m.

After workers hung a window-washing style rigging from the roof of 927 Fifth Avenue, "I thought maybe they were checking masonry." he said. "Then I saw they were taking the nest down and putting it into garbage bags."

He added, "I thought, 'I'm going to climb up ropes. I'm going to stop them.' But I looked up and saw the nest was gone. It was just gone."

Other than Ms. Moore and Dr. Schwager, residents of the 11 apartments in the building have declined to be interviewed, among them Bruce Wasserstein, the Wall Street deal maker, and Ms. Zahn, who had referred to Pale Male in a 2001 segment of "The Edge with Paula Zahn," on Fox News Channel. She was interviewing two naturalists, one of whom commented on the problems associated with people feeding wild animals, and Ms. Zahn seemed eager to offer a glimpse of her personal life. "Well, guess what lives on my building, you two, a red-tailed hawk," she said. "It eats rats and pigeons on our block."

"I like the hawk," she said. "I am just not going to feed it."

But these days Pale Male is a sore subject among the residents of 927 Fifth Avenue. Mr. Cohen said Ms. Moore had not even mentioned the hawk when they had a friendly conversation at a recent party. She said she had been too upset to talk about it. The topic is largely off-limits when residents cross paths, she said. "We are playing the game of the elephant in the middle of the living room."


Janon Fisher contributed reporting for this article.

from the NYTimes

[gldstwmn]

Heh. I met Richard Cohen and Paula Zahn about 5 years ago when I was working with the Broncos. They were nice to me in that nice way that you treat a servant.
I can't stand them now. I hope they violated the treaty and are prosecuted and the protestors and the publicity surrrounding where they live forces them to move their pampered asses. :mad: I think I will also send an email to Ms. Zahn at CNN telling her how disgusting I think this is.

[strandinthewind]

I walked to the building today and joined the protest - there were about 100 or people AND they has signs that said HONK FOR THE HAWK - the people in that building had no peace and quiet ALL day let me assure you :laugh:

[Nixxxed]

I walked to the building today and joined the protest - there were about 100 or people AND they has signs that said HONK FOR THE HAWK - the people in that building had no peace and quiet ALL day let me assure you :laugh:

Woohoo! But, how are your nerves after all that honking???

Thanks for posting the article with the Audubon link -- I signed the petition, and sent the link to all my friends with a note: "If you want your Xmas presents, sign this petition!" :cool:

[SuzeQuze]

I walked to the building today and joined the protest - there were about 100 or people AND they has signs that said HONK FOR THE HAWK - the people in that building had no peace and quiet ALL day let me assure you :laugh:

Rock on with your bad self! Effers.

[Nixxxed]

Looks like we won! I'll believe it when the nest is rebuilt, but signs are good...

http://www.nycaudubon.org/home/

Victory for Pale Male

The spikes are going back - Pale Male and Lola will be able to rebuild.

NYC Audubon, National Audubon and the 927 Fifth Avenue co-op board have reached an agreement to restore the pigeon spikes that held in place the nest of red-tailed hawk Pale Male and his mate Lola. The building intends to erect a guardrail around the 12th-floor window cornice, the original location of the nest, in order to stabilize the area and make it more secure. We expect this to happen immediately and are moving it forward as quickly as possible for the sake of the birds.

The deal is signed and the spikes are coming but we will continue to hold peaceful vigils until they are put back.

Let’s encourage the return of Pale Male and Lola with a quiet vigil today, Thursday, at 4:30pm at 74th St. & 5th Avenue.

Vigils will continue on this schedule, until further notice:
Weekdays: 4:30-6pm
Saturday & Sunday: 12-2pm

We are encouraging children to send drawings and stories about what Pale Male means to them to our office at:
NYC Audubon
71 West 23rd St., Room 1529
New York, NY 10010
We will put the letters and drawings on posters for the vigils.

Photos of Pale Male’s fans are now up: photo page.