My Thoughts On The Next Four Years

[Johnny Stew]

"A new term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation.
To make this nation stronger and better, I will need your support and I will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust."

Today, President Bush said in his victory speech that he wants to work to unite the country, and win the approval and trust of those who opposed him in this country.

In all honesty, I hope he succeeds.
But then, I remember I had the same hope the first time he made such a promise. When, despite the fact that I voted for someone else, I hoped that Bush would be a good president and the "Great Uniter" he promised to be.

Perhaps it's a bit of the old "once bitten, twice shy" adage, but I'm less optimistic that he'll hold true to his words the second time around. After all, the "Great Uniter" turned into one of the greatest dividers this country has ever known.

I know a lot of people support him (obviously), and are happy he won. And I know there are a lot of gung-ho people in this country who are thrilled that he's waging this war, even if it's at the expense of our country, and its citizens and its economy.
I know a lot of people are also supportive of his "moral agenda." Unfortunately, I still choke on the word "moral," when I think of it in regards to George W. Bush. Quite frankly, I don't feel HE has the moral character to question mine. But that's my issue. I'll work through it, and I'll keep fighting to change some minds on what constitutes morality.

I want to have confidence in the man leading my country. But my confidence must be earned, and it hasn't been yet. And I have to wonder if it's been irreparably damaged by the past four years, though I'll try to be open-minded.
Now Mr. Bush has four more years to change my mind about what kind of legacy he will leave behind when all is said and done, and that's going to require a LOT of work on his part.

Hopefully we're not going to be faced with another four years of "more of the same": More infringements on our civil rights, more of someone else's so-called morality being forced upon us, more economic hardships, more tax-breaks for the upper-class, more American lives lost in a war created under deceptive pretenses, another several billion dollars added to the national deficit, and another four years of Osama Bin Laden roaming free.

I have my doubts, but I have my hopes too.
So, change my mind, Mr. President...
you have no idea how much I want to be proven wrong about you.

[strandinthewind]

{{{HUGS}}}

to you Bri :xoxo:

[The Tower]

Optimism is one thing- reality is another.

Dubya doesn't have to worry about the electorate anymore, so I'm sure it will be no holds barred. Some would say that he might be concerned about a legacy (a-la Clinton), but his legacy is going to be the destruction of environmental protections, the loss of civil liberties, the massive increase of religious involvement in government affairs and a huge, continuing shift of money and power to the Plutocracy of the United Corporations of America.

Adios Supreme Court. Adios Roe vs. Wade. Adios secular education.

[gldstwmn]

I don't want to unite with his lying ass. In fact, I am now more committed than ever to fighting him every single step of the way. Under no circumstances will I support this presidency.

[ontheEdgeof17]

I don't want to unite with his lying ass. In fact, I am now more committed than ever to fighting him every single step of the way. Under no circumstances will I support this presidency.

At this point, I agree. I'm not supporting someone who doesn't even want me here. :distress:

[MikeVielhaber]

"A new term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation.
To make this nation stronger and better, I will need your support and I will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust."

Today, President Bush said in his victory speech that he wants to work to unite the country, and win the approval and trust of those who opposed him in this country.

In all honesty, I hope he succeeds.
But then, I remember I had the same hope the first time he made such a promise. When, despite the fact that I voted for someone else, I hoped that Bush would be a good president and the "Great Uniter" he promised to be.

Perhaps it's a bit of the old "once bitten, twice shy" adage, but I'm less optimistic that he'll hold true to his words the second time around. After all, the "Great Uniter" turned into one of the greatest dividers this country has ever known.

I know a lot of people support him (obviously), and are happy he won. And I know there are a lot of gung-ho people in this country who are thrilled that he's waging this war, even if it's at the expense of our country, and its citizens and its economy.
I know a lot of people are also supportive of his "moral agenda." Unfortunately, I still choke on the word "moral," when I think of it in regards to George W. Bush. Quite frankly, I don't feel HE has the moral character to question mine. But that's my issue. I'll work through it, and I'll keep fighting to change some minds on what constitutes morality.

I want to have confidence in the man leading my country. But my confidence must be earned, and it hasn't been yet. And I have to wonder if it's been irreparably damaged by the past four years, though I'll try to be open-minded.
Now Mr. Bush has four more years to change my mind about what kind of legacy he will leave behind when all is said and done, and that's going to require a LOT of work on his part.

Hopefully we're not going to be faced with another four years of "more of the same": More infringements on our civil rights, more of someone else's so-called morality being forced upon us, more economic hardships, more tax-breaks for the upper-class, more American lives lost in a war created under deceptive pretenses, another several billion dollars added to the national deficit, and another four years of Osama Bin Laden roaming free.

I have my doubts, but I have my hopes too.
So, change my mind, Mr. President...
you have no idea how much I want to be proven wrong about you.

hey well said

[strandinthewind]

I don't want to unite with his lying ass. In fact, I am now more committed than ever to fighting him every single step of the way. Under no circumstances will I support this presidency.

I agree and I think it is important that I keep fighting against what I think is wrong. I highly doubt W will do anything I consider right and I base this on his many squandered opportunities to do so for the last four years. ver the last four years, everytime he had the chance to go the extra step or do something "out of the ball park right" - he did not not and instead placated the religious right and/or the huge corps. So, I will be fighting four the next four years.

[gldstwmn]

I agree and I think it is important that I keep fighting against what I think is wrong. I highly doubt W will do anything I consider right and I base this on his many squandered opportunities to do so for the last four years. ver the last four years, everytime he had the chance to go the extra step or do something "out of the ball park right" - he did not not and instead placated the religious right and/or the huge corps. So, I will be fighting four the next four years.

:thumbsup: We must hang on to our republic.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I agree, well said Johnny. I did not support the President in his campaign this election, but I support the USA. I respect the decision that was made. He won, fair and square (for once!) Since Bush will not be seeking any form of re-election hopefully his second term will prove better for the country.
I will never hope that things go bad in America for political gain. Sure it will be easier to win for us in 2008 if he has a horrible 2nd term, but that's not what we need. Sometimes you just lose..and we lost. We put up a great fight, and I'm proud of Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards, and I stand by the message they presented.
Kerry ended this race with a lot of grace, as was to be expected. President Bush has a lot he COULD do in these 4 yrs, hopefully he does them, although I too am "cautiously optimistic." I want America to be ok, regardless of my political affiliation..I want the world to be ok. We DO need unity. Had Senator Kerry won I would say the same thing. There are soldiers dying in Iraq, for no reason? Well yeah , for no reason, but the point is they are there NOW...we need to stand by them...hope the best for them...and hope for the best in the next 4 yrs, it's all we can do..

It's been fun

Chris

[strandinthewind]

:thumbsup: We must hang on to our republic.

:laugh: there we will be Diss, Goldie, and Strand marching on Wash. and Strand says "ya know I really agree with the D candidate on principle, but he misused a verb tense in the third paragraph and I think that means . . . " After which the march is temporarily halted as Diss is seen strangling Strand as Goldie hit him on the head with her handbag :eek: :laugh: :rolleyes:

[Johnny Stew]

I don't want to unite with his lying ass. In fact, I am now more committed than ever to fighting him every single step of the way. Under no circumstances will I support this presidency.

Oh, trust me, he doesn't have my support over some nice little speech. He has a long way to go in earning that, if he should ever.
But I've always thought we have two choices in life: let others cause us misery, or create our own happiness.

Like I said, I hold onto a glimmer of optimism about the future of my country. If the president wants me, and people like me, to trust him, then he better get to work. I'll allow him the opportunity to mend some bridges and change his focus.

When his actions infringe upon my rights, I will actively work against him. When he screws up, I'll most certainly make sure to point it out.
But, whatever he does, I refuse to let him have the power to affect my happiness.

If he fails to live up to his promise, he'll just prove my opinion of him to be correct... so it's no sweat off my back.
And, if somehow he proves me wrong, then I'll happily admit it. That's my promise.

[amber]

Optimism is one thing- reality is another.

Dubya doesn't have to worry about the electorate anymore, so I'm sure it will be no holds barred. Some would say that he might be concerned about a legacy (a-la Clinton), but his legacy is going to be the destruction of environmental protections, the loss of civil liberties, the massive increase of religious involvement in government affairs and a huge, continuing shift of money and power to the Plutocracy of the United Corporations of America.

Adios Supreme Court. Adios Roe vs. Wade. Adios secular education.
Yep, exactly :nod: He's a lying buttmonster, and his policies will never change..

[Johnny Stew]

hey well said

Thanks, Mike. Us homosexuals can be a thoughtful, articulate bunch. Get to know a few of us sometime.

[larg]

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old. Open your eyes and look at some of the things that he's done that AREN'T so bad... Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President; but he has a very hard job, one I wouldn't want, and I think that he's done the best that any mortal human being can do. Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president... we have no way of knowing now. I'm just asking that all of you, rather than miserably "suffering" through the next four years, try to look at Bush in a more positive light. He's done some pretty good things; he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons. Read some things by the philosopher Hallie some day and you'll begin to understand that sometimes we have to look at the product, not the means, to judge a person), he's helped make it more difficult for women to use abortion to EXCESSION (that is, he's prevented women from having more than one or two abortions-- I know at least two people who have had in the abortions DOUBLE DIGIT numbers, and this prevents them from that ability; they now have children, yes, but they also regret their past ways because of having children and the abortions becomming difficult. Not to mention they both have various internal problems that are excrutiatingly painful due to abortions), and he's created programs that make it possible for me, a 3rd class 18 year old white male who was a straight A student through high school go to a good college and NOT be paying out of my ears for the rest of my life. I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has? Besides, don't you think we could get more allies in this war we're in if people in other countries saw that we SUPPORT our president?
Please take time to consider what I've said, because I've tried to be polite and intelligent about this all, and its stuff I've been wanting to say for quite some time. I've dealt with all the democrat stuff here with a pinch of salt, the anti-Bush remarks that are undying, the sometimes crude and offensive images that tag posts, and the sometimes ignorant things people say here. I don't see how you all think you are so great, when you daily call republicans stupid, greedy and any other list of mean names. Seems to me sometimes like you are a bunch of kindergarteners who need depserately to grow up.
Finally, I wish to thank all of you who DO act respectively in all of this pish posh. It's refreshing to see that there are people in the world who can accept my views and my right to my opinions, even if they disagree. I can accept yours. Maybe you should try my method sometime; you'll find yourself surrounded by more friends because of it, as well as in some very interesting conversations that in the past were either one sided or formed as crude attacks.
One final thing, even though I am republican, I admit, I AM pro-same-sex marriage. It IS about love, after all, although I do agree it would be a type of desecration to the Christian religion to have Christian same-sex marriages, although I see no reason why two lovers cannot wed technically and have it acknowledged by our country. So my heart does go out to all of you who feel you have lost hope. Although maybe being a Mainer I'm ignorant, so please fill me in; why do you believe it's less likely to ever see such a law now with Bush? Wasn't Kerry ALSO against same-sex marriages? Forgive me for being confused.
Thank you all for taking the time to listen to me, and any rude comments made by people who say I'm dumb or ignorant, expect a letter from me personally trying to prove other wise. If there's one thing I hate, its people who think they are better than someone else simply because they have a different opinion.
God bless you all and the beautiful country we live in that TRULY gives US the choice to make these decisions.
Do you think Sadam or Bin Laden were elected by the people?
That's what makes this country fantastic.
Please don't forget that.


Adam R.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Ok so who do we want for 2008? I know it's a little early , but hey!

Everyone says Hillary, but I just dont see her being able to win..



Chris

[ontheEdgeof17]

All I have to say is that there better be tons of 'Mac/solo material coming our way to keep our minds off things for the next 4 years.

Tour in:

'05! (Liddy solo)
'06! (Stevie solo)
'07! ('Mac)
'08! ('Mac)


:wavey:

[Hawkeye]

All I have to say is that there better be tons of 'Mac/solo material coming our way to keep our minds off things for the next 4 years.

Tour in:

'05! (Liddy solo)
'06! (Stevie solo)
'07! ('Mac)
'08! ('Mac)


:wavey:

Preech it Brother Curtis

[hypnotized]

Bush has become too cocky and power drunk. I foresee a scenario where Dubya will make an errr in judgement so grave it will result in his impeachment.

[Hawkeye]

Bush has become too cocky and power drunk. I foresee a scenario where Dubya will make an errr in judgement so grave it will result in his impeachment.

Are you suggesting we send Monica to the whiote house to stir things up for Bush :laugh:

[DeeGeMe]

Reality check time here--Shrub gave basically the same speech after the 2000 election and promised to heal our country, and I think we all know how that turned out.

On the bright side, think about the last several two-term presidents--something always came up in that last term to haunt them.

Nixon--Watergate
Reagan-Iran/Contra
Clinton-Monica

[blinker12]

I don't want to unite with his lying ass. In fact, I am now more committed than ever to fighting him every single step of the way. Under no circumstances will I support this presidency.

Right. And more than just fighting *against* Bush, we must continue to fight *for* what we believe.

[DeeGeMe]

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old. Adam R.


Oh--and one more thing--I'm not going to "get over it". And I know before the next four years end, you'll be the one doing the complaining when you see what this president's right-wing, extremist agenda will do to further tear this country down and further apart.

[AliP]

Thanks Adam R.!! That was one of the most well thought out and insightful posts I've read in a long time.


Ali
(And for the record I am not a Republican..or a Democrat for that matter)

[AliP]

Oh--and one more thing--I'm not going to "get over it". And I know before the next four years end, you'll be the one doing the complaining when you see what this president's right-wing, extremist agenda will do to further tear this country down and further apart.


*Sigh*

I really thought Adam's post would make people think a little bit about how they respond to other's who don't have the same 'beliefs' as the majority on this board.

Nothing ever changes.

[Johnny Stew]

All I can say is....

Adam... I think I can say, without seeming to be immodest, that I tend to be one of the more optimistic people around. Check out this thread, and I think you'll see that.

Still, I have a hard time seeing how the one, maybe two things that Bush has done correctly are worthy of praise, in comparison to the myriad things he has botched.

You said you feel he's "done the best that any mortal human being can do," and you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully, and whole-heartedly, disagree.
I think there are plenty of men and women who could have and would have done a markedly better job than Bush has.

And maybe it's terribly naive of me, but I still have a very difficult time understanding the mind-set of people (friends even) who tell me with utmost sincerity that they support same-sex marriage and gay rights, but that they're a Bush-supporter.
Yes, I realize that John Kerry also said that he doesn't believe in same-sex marriage... a fact that I was not happy with... but, unlike President Bush, Kerry wasn't actively seeking, as Bush has, to take back some of the rights we ALREADY have, nor was he actively seeking, as Bush has, to amend the constitution to forever ban homosexuals from marrying. Thus forever sealing our fates in this country.

That's the difference between the two candidates. I can't stress this enough though... I never claimed to agree with John Kerry on all issues. I think it's impossible to agree with any politician 100%. But I felt very strongly that he would have been a better leader for this country, than George W.

And the issue of gay rights may seem like a trivial matter to some, but for some of us it has tantamount importance in our lives.

I am deeply disappointed that Bush won, and I'm angry that the country I have so much faith in once again put their faith in a man who's done little more than divide us.

In fact, I was so angry that he won... and the reasons why he won... that I didn't sleep at all last night, and was a miserable S.O.B. for the better part of today.

But I don't like living without hope... so I reminded myself that it's always darkest before the dawn, and I started hoping that this is as dark as things are going to get.
And, yeah, I imagine I'm desperately clinging to that right now.

I'm glad you don't think things are bleak. I honestly am. And I hope to have that feeling myself someday.

[Johnny Stew]

*Sigh*

I really thought Adam's post would make people think a little bit about how they respond to other's who don't have the same 'beliefs' as the majority on this board.

Nothing ever changes.

I understand where you're coming from, Ali, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want and need to express their disappointment right now.

Even for those of us trying to hold onto a glimmer of optimism, there's no way we can't help but be disappointed.
It's been a long, heated battle, that we, obviously, felt very strongly about. I don't think we can be expected to just say, "oh, we lost and you won -- no biggie."
It's not a card game or Hide-N-Seek. For many of us, the outcome of this election has the potential to deeply impact our lives. With an extreme conservative in the White House, and the GOP controlling a ruling majority in all branches of the government, there is the possiblity that laws will be made (and rights denied) which will effect many of us for years to come. Potentially forevermore.

I don't expect everyone to share my beliefs... but I guess I do expect people to be a little more compassionate towards me and people like me, since I extend that same compassion towards others.

[Hawkeye]

I spent the whole year before the election being undecided. And I was kind of undecided yesterday, and now one day AFTER the elecetion I've finally come to the conclusion that I wish Kerry had one. The way he kicked Bush's ass in the election, just everythign about him, I'm going to miss him now, and before today I didn't realize this. It's a little late now, but this is weird.

[strandinthewind]

Oh damnit - I just cannot resist - so here goes:

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old.

The assessment of the ballots in all of Florida clearly indicate W lost Florida last time, no matter how Gore chose to wage the struggle there. So, you are wrong on this point - if you know better - let's see the proof.

. Open your eyes and look at some of the things that he's done that AREN'T so bad... Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President; but he has a very hard job, one I wouldn't want, and I think that he's done the best that any mortal human being can do. Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president... we have no way of knowing now. I'm just asking that all of you, rather than miserably "suffering" through the next four years, try to look at Bush in a more positive light. He's done some pretty good things; he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons. Read some things by the philosopher Hallie some day and you'll begin to understand that sometimes we have to look at the product, not the means, to judge a person)[/QUOTE]

I guess the parents of the American sons and daughters that were killed can take comfort in that - not to mention the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's we slaughtered in our mistaken process. I am sure you would take comfort in W's retro fit reasoning if your son or daughter died fighting in a war we did not have to fight, esp. when W swore he would go to war only as a last resort and only if the US was in immediate danger, both of which were not met.

he's helped make it more difficult for women to use abortion to EXCESSION (that is, he's prevented women from having more than one or two abortions-- I know at least two people who have had in the abortions DOUBLE DIGIT numbers, and this prevents them from that ability; they now have children, yes, but they also regret their past ways because of having children and the abortions becomming difficult. Not to mention they both have various internal problems that are excrutiatingly painful due to abortions

Exactly how has W done this? And - if he has, how has it not made it more difficult for a one abortion kind of girl to get one. What makes the second one more difficult than the first. I must have missed that legislation. Som again, I submit you are flat out wrong here and look forward to seeing the facts you come up with to support this tripe.

and he's created programs that make it possible for me, a 3rd class 18 year old white male who was a straight A student through high school go to a good college and NOT be paying out of my ears for the rest of my life.

What program is this? I have not heard of a federal program that allows for this. But, I do not know everything (contrary to my own high opinion of myself :laugh: ) BUT, if he did do this, great - it is a feather in his hat. But, I am interested to know exactly what Federal program you are referring to.

I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has?

Because Clinton's lying and obstruction, while bad and certainly not overlooked by me, never killed anyone much less 1,000's of our soldiers, it never screwed the education system, economy, and environment. That is why.

Besides, don't you think we could get more allies in this war we're in if people in other countries saw that we SUPPORT our president?
Please take time to consider what I've said, because I've tried to be polite and intelligent about this all, and its stuff I've been wanting to say for quite some time. I've dealt with all the democrat stuff here with a pinch of salt, the anti-Bush remarks that are undying, the sometimes crude and offensive images that tag posts, and the sometimes ignorant things people say here. I don't see how you all think you are so great, when you daily call republicans stupid, greedy and any other list of mean names. Seems to me sometimes like you are a bunch of kindergarteners who need depserately to grow up.
Finally, I wish to thank all of you who DO act respectively in all of this pish posh. It's refreshing to see that there are people in the world who can accept my views and my right to my opinions, even if they disagree. I can accept yours. Maybe you should try my method sometime; you'll find yourself surrounded by more friends because of it, as well as in some very interesting conversations that in the past were either one sided or formed as crude attacks.
One final thing, even though I am republican, I admit, I AM pro-same-sex marriage. It IS about love, after all, although I do agree it would be a type of desecration to the Christian religion to have Christian same-sex marriages, although I see no reason why two lovers cannot wed technically and have it acknowledged by our country. So my heart does go out to all of you who feel you have lost hope. Although maybe being a Mainer I'm ignorant, so please fill me in; why do you believe it's less likely to ever see such a law now with Bush? Wasn't Kerry ALSO against same-sex marriages? Forgive me for being confused.
Thank you all for taking the time to listen to me, and any rude comments made by people who say I'm dumb or ignorant, expect a letter from me personally trying to prove other wise. If there's one thing I hate, its people who think they are better than someone else simply because they have a different opinion.
God bless you all and the beautiful country we live in that TRULY gives US the choice to make these decisions.
Do you think Sadam or Bin Laden were elected by the people?
That's what makes this country fantastic.
Please don't forget that.


Adam R.

The reason why is that your rights as presumably a white straight Christian male are not in danger. If you are that, then you are W's dream consituent. So, go ahead and vote for him and worship at his alter while listening to his lies. Just do not expect others to agree with you when they are being trampled upon in the name of W and therefore in his eyes the name of God.

Finally, I cannot believe you even thought anyone could talk about this on any rationale level after Kerry's defeat this morning. I think you posted this to bait people. But, I am not inside your head, etc. So, I guess you did not, but it is awfully suspect :shrug:

[Hawkeye]

Quote:
Originally Posted by larg
I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has?

Because Clinton's lying and obstruction, while bad, never killed anyone much less 1,000's of our soldiers, it never screwed the education system, economy, and environment. That is why.

AHHHHHH how can you compare lying about Oral Sex to how Bush lied. Sorry larg but that is an awful argument. Clinton could've ****ed Monica and her chinese stepmother all the while Al Gore was videotapping and seriously WHO CARES, it has nothing to do with us! :laugh:

Finally, I cannot believe you even thought anyone could talk about this on any rationale level after Kerry's defeat this morning. I think you posted this to bait people. But, I am not inside your head, etc.

I disagree here with you Strand. I definitely don;t think LArg would do that from his lengthy posting history at the Legacy :nod:


And lastly Strand, where was all this Ant-Bush Super Pro Kerry attitude during the whole campaighn. You always seem to really to go either way, and now you seem madder then Dissention/

[Sugar]

I understand where you're coming from, Ali, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want and need to express their disappointment right now.

Even for those of us trying to hold onto a glimmer of optimism, there's no way we can't help but be disappointed.
It's been a long, heated battle, that we, obviously, felt very strongly about. I don't think we can be expected to just say, "oh, we lost and you won -- no biggie."
It's not a card game or Hide-N-Seek. For many of us, the outcome of this election has the potential to deeply impact our lives. With an extreme conservative in the White House, and the GOP controlling a ruling majority in all branches of the government, there is the possiblity that laws will be made (and rights denied) which will effect many of us for years to come. Potentially forevermore.

I don't expect everyone to share my beliefs... but I guess I do expect people to be a little more compassionate towards me and people like me, since I extend that same compassion towards others.

As always, well said, Johnny.

I would like to add that I'm a little tired of people accusing those of us who don't support Bush of whining because "our guy lost". It's so much more than that. Many of us are scared to death about Bush's cavilier agenda and what it will mean for us regular people.

Even Republican larg said:
" Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President"
"Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president"
"he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons"

When did this become acceptable in a president? Why do we gleefully accept so little from Bush?

And Clinton's lie didn't callously disregard the lives of thousands of people...

And as thoughtful as your post is larg, that is decidedly NOT what Bush presents. He moves forward with a "Screw y'all" attitude, talking like a schoolyard bully, not like I IMAGINE the leader of the free world should.

I've given Bush chances...I waited for some great FDR-like words to come from him after 9/11. Didn't happen. All we got was some spagetti-western dialog.

After the WMD debacle I wanted some acknowledgment that mistakes were made, maybe some assurance it wouldn't happen again, even a "I know this isn't the way we wanted it, but we're still doing the right thing," kind of attitude. But he didn't he shifted the focus like a child caught in a lie.

This isn't a game to most of us. This isn't a contest. This is all too real.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I disagree here with you Strand. I definitely don;t think LArg would do that from his lengthy posting history at the Legacy :nod:

. . .

And lastly Strand, where was all this Ant-Bush Super Pro Kerry attitude during the whole campaighn. You always seem to really to go either way, and now you seem madder then Dissention/

I tend to base all judgements on facts. Many do not and instead just blast away in a blindly partisan manner. But and in any event, I have never been an ardent Bush supporter and have been very vocal about W's lies and the horrible nature of his administration.

I think I think too much for people :laugh: - who like a two second pithy soundbyte as opposed to analysis of any kind. For instance, although I voted for him twice and voted for Gore and Kerry, I think Clinton should have been impeached because he clearly and in a calculated manner used Fed. Govt. resources to obstruct justice in the cover up of his affair and I could care a less about his affair. Well, that point of view infuriates D's to no length because they cannot ever allow anything bad to be said about Clinton - ever. Same for the war in Iraq. I think after 9/11 and even though SH had nothing to do with 9/11, W was correct to pursue the threat of SH having WMD - the possibility was too great to risk. Where I object to W is when he lied about the nukes and the links between SH and OBL to sell a war he otherwise could not sell (Powell's speech to the UN was ineffective). People see that as me supporting W, which I am not. I think his lying to go to war, our getting there without a plan to win the peace, and the US having no exit strategy are horrible. Yet, D's see me as giving W credit and that can never happen with this scorched earth policy.

In the end - I just do not tow that or any other party line when the facts do not support it. Thus, I think people percieve me as flip flopping :eek: But, I re-read a bunch of my poltical posts earlier and I have not been pro Bush and anti-Kerry. I hope that helps.

And - Adam R. - I apologize if I miscontrued your intent.

[Moony]

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old. Open your eyes and look at some of the things that he's done that AREN'T so bad...

Sorry, but that is a lot to ask. Bush is NOT my president and will NEVER have my support. Period.


Although maybe being a Mainer I'm ignorant, so please fill me in; why do you believe it's less likely to ever see such a law now with Bush? Wasn't Kerry ALSO against same-sex marriages? Forgive me for being confused.

Consitutional Amendment banning gay marriages ring a bell? At least with Kerry we had some hope. With Bush in power, there is NO chance.


Thank you all for taking the time to listen to me, and any rude comments made by people who say I'm dumb or ignorant, expect a letter from me personally trying to prove other wise. If there's one thing I hate, its people who think they are better than someone else simply because they have a different opinion.

I totally agree with you on that. And found your post to be very thoughtful. :)

God bless you all and the beautiful country we live in that TRULY gives US the choice to make these decisions.
Do you think Sadam or Bin Laden were elected by the people?

Technically, neither was Bush the first time. :sorry:

In all honesty, I think the problem with this country is religion (and you know the one I'm talking about.) Check this out. (http://www.evilbible.com/)

Moony

[gldstwmn]

:laugh: there we will be Diss, Goldie, and Strand marching on Wash. and Strand says "ya know I really agree with the D candidate on principle, but he misused a verb tense in the third paragraph and I think that means . . . " After which the march is temporarily halted as Diss is seen strangling Strand as Goldie hit him on the head with her handbag :eek: :laugh: :rolleyes:

Film at 11. Look for the crawl on CNN. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

but I support the USA. I respect the decision that was made. He won, fair and square (for once!)

Not too sure about that. We'll see. I support the United States as well.

We DO need unity.
Chris

You do your thing and I'll do mine. Mine is to see that I can help in any way possible from him doing any further damage to this country.

[gldstwmn]

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old. Open your eyes and look at some of the things that he's done that AREN'T so bad... Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President; but he has a very hard job, one I wouldn't want, and I think that he's done the best that any mortal human being can do. Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president... we have no way of knowing now. I'm just asking that all of you, rather than miserably "suffering" through the next four years, try to look at Bush in a more positive light. He's done some pretty good things; he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons. Read some things by the philosopher Hallie some day and you'll begin to understand that sometimes we have to look at the product, not the means, to judge a person), he's helped make it more difficult for women to use abortion to EXCESSION (that is, he's prevented women from having more than one or two abortions-- I know at least two people who have had in the abortions DOUBLE DIGIT numbers, and this prevents them from that ability; they now have children, yes, but they also regret their past ways because of having children and the abortions becomming difficult. Not to mention they both have various internal problems that are excrutiatingly painful due to abortions), and he's created programs that make it possible for me, a 3rd class 18 year old white male who was a straight A student through high school go to a good college and NOT be paying out of my ears for the rest of my life. I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has? Besides, don't you think we could get more allies in this war we're in if people in other countries saw that we SUPPORT our president?
Please take time to consider what I've said, because I've tried to be polite and intelligent about this all, and its stuff I've been wanting to say for quite some time. I've dealt with all the democrat stuff here with a pinch of salt, the anti-Bush remarks that are undying, the sometimes crude and offensive images that tag posts, and the sometimes ignorant things people say here. I don't see how you all think you are so great, when you daily call republicans stupid, greedy and any other list of mean names. Seems to me sometimes like you are a bunch of kindergarteners who need depserately to grow up.
Finally, I wish to thank all of you who DO act respectively in all of this pish posh. It's refreshing to see that there are people in the world who can accept my views and my right to my opinions, even if they disagree. I can accept yours. Maybe you should try my method sometime; you'll find yourself surrounded by more friends because of it, as well as in some very interesting conversations that in the past were either one sided or formed as crude attacks.
One final thing, even though I am republican, I admit, I AM pro-same-sex marriage. It IS about love, after all, although I do agree it would be a type of desecration to the Christian religion to have Christian same-sex marriages, although I see no reason why two lovers cannot wed technically and have it acknowledged by our country. So my heart does go out to all of you who feel you have lost hope. Although maybe being a Mainer I'm ignorant, so please fill me in; why do you believe it's less likely to ever see such a law now with Bush? Wasn't Kerry ALSO against same-sex marriages? Forgive me for being confused.
Thank you all for taking the time to listen to me, and any rude comments made by people who say I'm dumb or ignorant, expect a letter from me personally trying to prove other wise. If there's one thing I hate, its people who think they are better than someone else simply because they have a different opinion.
God bless you all and the beautiful country we live in that TRULY gives US the choice to make these decisions.
Do you think Sadam or Bin Laden were elected by the people?
That's what makes this country fantastic.
Please don't forget that.


Adam R.

Meh. Go drink your Kool Aid.
EDITED TO ADD: Saddam Hussein was elected. Go take some of that college money Bush gave you and study it. Don't even think about trying to write or pm me an unsolicited letter.

[gldstwmn]

Are you suggesting we send Monica to the whiote house to stir things up for Bush :laugh:

Too drunk/high/Valley Of The Dolls to...well, you know.

[gldstwmn]

Right. And more than just fighting *against* Bush, we must continue to fight *for* what we believe.

Amen. I don't care what the giggling murderer said today, I'm not about to forgo my principles and start acting like some flag waving automatron.

[gldstwmn]

Oh--and one more thing--I'm not going to "get over it". And I know before the next four years end, you'll be the one doing the complaining when you see what this president's right-wing, extremist agenda will do to further tear this country down and further apart.

Preach it! :nod:

[gldstwmn]

The assessment of the ballots in all of Florida clearly indicate W lost Florida last time, no matter how Gore chose to wage the struggle there. So, you are wrong on this point - if you know better - let's see the proof.

I am stunned you just typed that. :shocked:

[gldstwmn]

This isn't like losing a football match and being a poor-sport. People shouldn't get over it. It would be worse if at the end everyone just said a big "oh well" and sat around sharing a drink and an anecdote or two. Because of who has been elected people will unnecessarily continue to suffer in relative silence. Grave injustices and violations will be commited against people and for this I don't care if people want to resolve their differences of opinion. It goes much further than simply 'getting over it' when the people have chosen to endorse outrageous violations against their fellow human beings. Why should it be so calmly accepted and resolved in a friendly matter when what we are talking about is the giving of permission for the gravest of crimes against man?


.
Thank you for saying so eloquently what I no longer have the patience to today.

[gldstwmn]

In all honesty, I think the problem with this country is religion
Moony

Bingo! Tell the man what he's won Bob.

[Johnny Stew]

Amen. I don't care what the giggling murderer said today, I'm not about to forgo my principles and start acting like some flag waving automatron.

Ouch. I hope that's not what I sounded like in my initial post ("a flag waving automaton").

[gldstwmn]

Ouch. I hope that's not what I sounded like in my initial post ("a flag waving automaton").

That was not directed at you. It was directed at "Get over it." :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

That was not directed at you. It was directed at "Get over it." :laugh:

I'm being an overly-sensitive dork tonight, so I was worried.
:xoxo:

[gldstwmn]

I'm being an overly-sensitive dork tonight, so I was worried.
:xoxo:

Oh no, no, no. We're all a little bruised here from the last 24 hours. I'm still pissed off, can you tell? :laugh: I don't even want to think about when dissention shows up. :shocked:
I also think that there are a core group here who discuss politics and if others don't want to read our posts then they can always make use of the ignore function or hide any threads started by us entirely.

[Moony]

Bingo! Tell the man what he's won Bob.

*looks around for a prize* GIMME! :woohoo:

[gldstwmn]

*looks around for a prize* GIMME! :woohoo:

:laugh: :wavey: :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

Oh no, no, no. We're all a little bruised here from the last 24 hours. I'm still pissed off, can you tell? :laugh:

I'm adamantly trying to temper my anger and disappointment, but those feelings are running pretty deep right now.

And I'm wishing I had the ability to just shrug it all off like some people seem capable of doing. "Oh, it's just four more years," and all of that.
I also remember the cautions about buying into the "propaganda of fear," and the idea that things are even more dire than they may seem. So I'm searching for that light at the end of the tunnel... something positive to hold onto that we can still make things better, before they get as worse as they could.

But this is always the danger when I care a little too much about something, and I knew that going in, so.... *sighs*

Anyway, enough of my Dork-Mode for one evening. :o

[Johnny Stew]

*looks around for a prize* GIMME! :woohoo:

Well, I imagine the Boobie Prize won't appease you, so I guess we better come up with something else! ;)

[gldstwmn]

he's helped make it more difficult for women to use abortion to EXCESSION (that is, he's prevented women from having more than one or two abortions-- I know at least two people who have had in the abortions DOUBLE DIGIT numbers, and this prevents them from that ability; they now have children, yes, but they also regret their past ways because of having children and the abortions becomming difficult. Not to mention they both have various internal problems that are excrutiatingly painful due to abortions),

This is one of the most disgusting, crude and hateful things I have read in a long time. It is none of your, nor our president's business who has an abortion and how many times they have them. Forcing women to raise children they cannot support is extremely judgmental and quite frankly, sick. You're all about the rights of the unborn, it's just once they're outside of the womb you want to cut social programs that help children. But you're okay with Iraqi babies/civilians being killed in an illegal war?

[gldstwmn]

Well, I imagine the Boobie Prize won't appease you, so I guess we better come up with something else! ;)

Bwaaah! :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

I'm adamantly trying to temper my anger and disappointment, but those feelings are running pretty deep right now.

And I'm wishing I had the ability to just shrug it all off like some people seem capable of doing. "Oh, it's just four more years," and all of that.
I also remember the cautions about buying into the "propaganda of fear," and the idea that things are even dire than they may seem. So I'm searching for that light at the end of the tunnel... something positive to hold onto that we can still make things better, before they get as worse as they could.

But this is always the danger when I care a little too much about something, and I knew that going in, so.... *sighs*

Anyway, enough of my Dork-Mode for one evening. :o

I hear you. If we don't have hope, we don't have anything.

[gldstwmn]

...I'm glad you don't because your passion makes you who you are, and I like ya for it. :) I think it is unwise to be so nonchalant about the next four years, myself.



*hug* Your not a dork, Johnny.

and :wavey: gldstwn. ;)

Moony

Thank you. I needed that. :wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

...I'm glad you don't because your passion makes you who you are, and I like ya for it. :) I think it is unwise to be so nonchalant about the next four years, myself.

*hug* Your not a dork, Johnny.

Very sweet words... and not to copy Goldie, but, thank you. I needed that. :)

(By the way, I can't believe I let such an appalling grammatical error as, "before they get as worse as they could," escape my fingertips! It's the grief, folks! ;) :shocked: )

[gldstwmn]

Very sweet words... and not to copy Goldie, but, thank you. I needed that. :)

(By the way, I can't believe I let such an appalling grammatical error as, "before they get as worse as they could," escape my fingertips! It's the grief, folks! ;) :shocked: )

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: It's okay.

[AliP]

Yes, I realize that John Kerry also said that he doesn't believe in same-sex marriage... a fact that I was not happy with... but, unlike President Bush, Kerry wasn't actively seeking, as Bush has, to take back some of the rights we ALREADY have, nor was he actively seeking, as Bush has, to amend the constitution to forever ban homosexuals from marrying. Thus forever sealing our fates in this country.



Johnny - I realize it is hard for you to be optimistic, but to maybe to provide a little shred of hope...3/4 of the states must pass the amendment, which is 38 I think ?? And that's only after 2/3 of both the House and Senante approve the amendment. (But I'm sure you already knew that.) I'm going to be optimistic and say it won't happen. :)


And so with that, I'm outta here.

[Vianna]

"Many of us are scared to death about Bush's cavilier agenda"

I am one of these. I do not like his attitude toward the Constitution, his religious right friends and his international policies. I am afraid for our rights-to have our own beliefs re: religion, same sex marriage, abortion, stem cell research. The Privacy Act is already infringing the Fourth Amendment. I cannot accept the influence these born again Christians have on him. If he wants to deal with the Middle East Muslim fundamentalists, he should be doing it through the United Nations.

I am depressed beyond belief over this election. Bush can talk all he wants about unity but he is the one that has created disunity so far. What's worse, if you look at the electoral map on CNN you'll see that the division in this country is almost sectional-Northeast and the Far West in one section and the rest of the country in the other. Not particularly comforting if you ask me.

It is also likely that Bush may get the opportunity to select 2 supreme court justices. If he does get to do that he will basically control all three branches of government-also not a comforting thought.

Will I get over this? After awhile no doubt but I will be watching him very carefully. I am hoping he'll hang himself by his own rope figuratively and get himself impeached.

[Vianna]

By the way it's nice to be able to come here and chat with people who feel like I do about this. Where I work is a hotbed of Republicanism and I don't dare open my mouth except to a coulple of people...

[Sugar]

By the way it's nice to be able to come here and chat with people who feel like I do about this. Where I work is a hotbed of Republicanism and I don't dare open my mouth except to a coulple of people...

I know what you mean. I work for the local paper and I heard our Republican columnist talking the other day about history judging Bush as the greatest president since Lincoln. I couldn't believe it. I mean OK so you support the guy...but greatest since LINCOLN???

Sometimes I wonder, Is the Clinton hate THIS strong?

[Patti]

I've been pretty depressed the last 24 hours, as I know you all have been too, but I have decided, for me it's best to let the anger go for a while. I will be watching Dubya like a hawk, no doubt, but I refuse to let anger consume me. I think the best thing I can do is to be a watchdog and fight when the time is right.

I can't speak for all of you but I think the best thing we can do together is to figure out what *we* as Democrats did wrong and fix it. I'm not suggesting we abandon our principles, but over the next four years, we need to learn how to get the job done. Sadly, over half the country voted for Bush and his "moral" issues. I don't understand it, I don't agree with it, it truly puzzles me, but it's there. The word liberal has such a bad connotation now. We need to change that. I don't know how, but we will never reclaim the government if we don't.

JS and all my other gay friends here, my heart truly bleeds for you. It sickens me that there is so much hate out there for you right now. It's all about love and the religious right makes it all about hate and intolerance. I am confident that someday there will be a change and you will get the equal rights you all so deserve.

So chins up, guys. We don't need to "get over it", but we can channel that anger into something positive.

[cliffdweller]

I've been pretty depressed the last 24 hours, as I know you all have been too, but I have decided, for me it's best to let the anger go for a while. I will be watching Dubya like a hawk, no doubt, but I refuse to let anger consume me. I think the best thing I can do is to be a watchdog and fight when the time is right.

I can't speak for all of you but I think the best thing we can do together is to figure out what *we* as Democrats did wrong and fix it. I'm not suggesting we abandon our principles, but over the next four years, we need to learn how to get the job done. Sadly, over half the country voted for Bush and his "moral" issues. I don't understand it, I don't agree with it, it truly puzzles me, but it's there. The word liberal has such a bad connotation now. We need to change that. I don't know how, but we will never reclaim the government if we don't.

JS and all my other gay friends here, my heart truly bleeds for you. It sickens me that there is so much hate out there for you right now. It's all about love and the religious right makes it all about hate and intolerance. I am confident that someday there will be a change and you will get the equal rights you all so deserve.

So chins up, guys. We don't need to "get over it", but we can channel that anger into something positive.

Thanks Patti. I totally agree. However, if this is the guy everyone wants, I feel totally lost in this country. :( :distress:

[cliffdweller]

This is one of the most disgusting, crude and hateful things I have read in a long time. It is none of your, nor our president's business who has an abortion and how many times they have them. Forcing women to raise children they cannot support is extremely judgmental and quite frankly, sick. You're all about the rights of the unborn, it's just once they're outside of the womb you want to cut social programs that help children. But you're okay with Iraqi babies/civilians being killed in an illegal war?

Word. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

I am stunned you just typed that. :shocked:

I have never maintained Gore did not win Florida - at least not after the final recount of all of Florida, etc. My beef was with the way Gore went about it in the legal system - he did not win Florida when you look at it that way, etc. Once again, I think I think too much :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Will I get over this? After awhile no doubt but I will be watching him very carefully. I am hoping he'll hang himself by his own rope figuratively and get himself impeached.

Vianna, this is from Tom Freidman's column in the New York Times today and what you said made me think of it. I think a lot of us feel the same way.

Meanwhile, there is a lot of talk that Mr. Bush has a mandate for his far right policies. Yes, he does have a mandate, but he also has a date - a date with history. If Mr. Bush can salvage the war in Iraq, forge a solution for dealing with our entitlements crisis - which can be done only with a bipartisan approach and a more sane fiscal policy - upgrade America's competitiveness, prevent Iran from going nuclear and produce a solution for our energy crunch, history will say that he used his mandate to lead to great effect. If he pushes for still more tax cuts and fails to solve our real problems, his date with history will be a very unpleasant one - no matter what mandate he has.

[gldstwmn]

I've been pretty depressed the last 24 hours, as I know you all have been too, but I have decided, for me it's best to let the anger go for a while. I will be watching Dubya like a hawk, no doubt, but I refuse to let anger consume me. I think the best thing I can do is to be a watchdog and fight when the time is right.

I can't speak for all of you but I think the best thing we can do together is to figure out what *we* as Democrats did wrong and fix it. I'm not suggesting we abandon our principles, but over the next four years, we need to learn how to get the job done. Sadly, over half the country voted for Bush and his "moral" issues. I don't understand it, I don't agree with it, it truly puzzles me, but it's there. The word liberal has such a bad connotation now. We need to change that. I don't know how, but we will never reclaim the government if we don't.

JS and all my other gay friends here, my heart truly bleeds for you. It sickens me that there is so much hate out there for you right now. It's all about love and the religious right makes it all about hate and intolerance. I am confident that someday there will be a change and you will get the equal rights you all so deserve.

So chins up, guys. We don't need to "get over it", but we can channel that anger into something positive.

I think the first place we need to focus our attention is the voting process itself. We need machines whose are made by companies that are not in the pockets of the Republicans. Did you all know that the chairman of Diebold promised to bring in the electoral votes from the state of Ohio for his buddy Bush? And that the Secretary Of State in Ohio was the chairman of the Ohio committe to Re-elect Bush Cheney? Sound familiar?
Anyway, I am going to post an article on some of the problems that were experienced by voters in Ohio. It will break your heart.

[cliffdweller]

Bush has become too cocky and power drunk. I foresee a scenario where Dubya will make an errr in judgement so grave it will result in his impeachment.

Yeah, but we don't want Cheney. WE DON'T WANT CHENEY!!! Or, how does that work in impeachment? Do we get our ****ty v.p. or is there another election?

[gldstwmn]

Yeah, but we don't want Cheney. WE DON'T WANT CHENEY!!!

I foresee Cheney going down over Plame, Halliburton or both.

[strandinthewind]

I foresee Cheney going down over Plame, Halliburton or both.

While I would LOVE for that to happen, I think a little over 1/2 of Amercia could care a less - I mean these issues were out there in the election and that did not stop W from getting 52% of the vote. I think that sucks, but reality is reality :mad:

[gldstwmn]

While I would LOVE for that to happen, I think a little over 1/2 of Amercia could care a less - I mean these issues were out there in the election and that did not stop W from getting 52% of the vote. I think that sucks, but reality is reality :mad:

Yes but Plame is still before a grand jury and the word was that indictments were being held off until after the election.

[strandinthewind]

Yes but Plame is still before a grand jury and the word was that indictments were being held off until after the election.

I hope you are right, but I am fearfull :eek:

[dissention]

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old. Open your eyes and look at some of the things that he's done that AREN'T so bad... Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President; but he has a very hard job, one I wouldn't want, and I think that he's done the best that any mortal human being can do. Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president... we have no way of knowing now. I'm just asking that all of you, rather than miserably "suffering" through the next four years, try to look at Bush in a more positive light. He's done some pretty good things; he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons. Read some things by the philosopher Hallie some day and you'll begin to understand that sometimes we have to look at the product, not the means, to judge a person), he's helped make it more difficult for women to use abortion to EXCESSION (that is, he's prevented women from having more than one or two abortions-- I know at least two people who have had in the abortions DOUBLE DIGIT numbers, and this prevents them from that ability; they now have children, yes, but they also regret their past ways because of having children and the abortions becomming difficult. Not to mention they both have various internal problems that are excrutiatingly painful due to abortions), and he's created programs that make it possible for me, a 3rd class 18 year old white male who was a straight A student through high school go to a good college and NOT be paying out of my ears for the rest of my life. I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has? Besides, don't you think we could get more allies in this war we're in if people in other countries saw that we SUPPORT our president?
Please take time to consider what I've said, because I've tried to be polite and intelligent about this all, and its stuff I've been wanting to say for quite some time. I've dealt with all the democrat stuff here with a pinch of salt, the anti-Bush remarks that are undying, the sometimes crude and offensive images that tag posts, and the sometimes ignorant things people say here. I don't see how you all think you are so great, when you daily call republicans stupid, greedy and any other list of mean names. Seems to me sometimes like you are a bunch of kindergarteners who need depserately to grow up.
Finally, I wish to thank all of you who DO act respectively in all of this pish posh. It's refreshing to see that there are people in the world who can accept my views and my right to my opinions, even if they disagree. I can accept yours. Maybe you should try my method sometime; you'll find yourself surrounded by more friends because of it, as well as in some very interesting conversations that in the past were either one sided or formed as crude attacks.
One final thing, even though I am republican, I admit, I AM pro-same-sex marriage. It IS about love, after all, although I do agree it would be a type of desecration to the Christian religion to have Christian same-sex marriages, although I see no reason why two lovers cannot wed technically and have it acknowledged by our country. So my heart does go out to all of you who feel you have lost hope. Although maybe being a Mainer I'm ignorant, so please fill me in; why do you believe it's less likely to ever see such a law now with Bush? Wasn't Kerry ALSO against same-sex marriages? Forgive me for being confused.
Thank you all for taking the time to listen to me, and any rude comments made by people who say I'm dumb or ignorant, expect a letter from me personally trying to prove other wise. If there's one thing I hate, its people who think they are better than someone else simply because they have a different opinion.
God bless you all and the beautiful country we live in that TRULY gives US the choice to make these decisions.
Do you think Sadam or Bin Laden were elected by the people?
That's what makes this country fantastic.
Please don't forget that.


Adam R.

Bite my ass. :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Bite my ass. :wavey:

OMG - I posted something similarly pugnacious - but soon thereafter deleted it becuase I thought it to crass. SO - glad to have you back!!!!!!!!!!!! :wavey:

[dissention]

OMG - I posted something similarly pugnacious - but soon thereafter deleted it becuase I thought it to crass. SO - glad to have you back!!!!!!!!!!!! :wavey:

Just what does he think is going to happen? He's bitched before about paying "half" of his paycheck in taxes because he wants to abolish welfare, but wait until he's drafted to Iraq and he gets his combat paycheck. He'll die from shock if a bullet doesn't hit him first.

[strandinthewind]

Just what does he think is going to happen? He's bitched before about paying "half" of his paycheck in taxes because he wants to abolish welfare, but wait until he's drafted to Iraq and he gets his combat paycheck. He'll die from shock if a bullet doesn't hit him first.

I know - and W will send him there ill equipped and he can hope his parents have enough $$$ to buy him the needed supplies :shrug:

I fly just about every other week and see hundreds of soldiers either going to or coming from Iraq - some returning for good and some on a five day furlough (sp.? ) It breaks my heart to see them. But, they, unlike W, have my FULL support.

[dissention]

I know - and W will send him there ill equipped and he can hope his parents have enough $$$ to buy him the needed supplies :shrug:

I fly just about every other week and see hundreds of soldiers either going to or coming from Iraq - some returning for good and some on a five day furlough (sp.? ) It breaks my heart to see them.

He should talk to Lila Lipscomb.

Bless every soul going to Iraq, I feel their pain moreso now than ever.

[gldstwmn]

Bite my ass. :wavey:

LMFAO. :lol: By the way, I forgot to wish the 18 year old poster larg well on his journey to the Middle East next year. Keep your head down, kiddo.

[dissention]

If all you Kerry supporters really want to sock it to the GOP, be sure to contribute anything you can to his senate campaign in '08. Let's make his donations go through the roof.