Same Sex Marriage Ban is passing....

[ontheEdgeof17]

CNN) -- Six months after gay and lesbian couples won the right to marry in Massachusetts, opponents of same-sex marriage struck back Tuesday as voters in at least six states were projected to approve constitutional amendments codifying marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution.

Voters in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah cast ballots Tuesday on anti-same-sex marriage amendments.

CNN has projected that the bans will pass in all of those states except Oregon, where no projection can be made because polls have not yet closed.

Gay rights groups concentrated much of their effort and money in Oregon, where they thought they had the best chance of winning.

Opponents of the amendment raised about $2.8 million, enough to run TV and radio ads in the Beaver State and outspend pro-amendment forces, according to the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

The push to amend state constitutions to ban same-sex marriage gained steam in May after gay men and lesbians were granted the right to marry in Massachusetts -- thanks to the state's Supreme Judicial Court, which ruled that laws restricting marriage to heterosexuals violated the state constitution.

In the wake of that ruling, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom ordered his city clerk to begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, saying the California constitution also did not allow such distinctions to be made.

Local officials in a number of other states, including Oregon and New York, followed his lead.

The California Supreme Court later ruled that Newsom had overstepped his authority, although the legal fight over the larger constitutional question has yet to be resolved.

As the backlash grew, opponents of gay and lesbian marriage, including many religious conservatives, moved quickly to put amendments on state ballots to short-circuit similar rulings from courts sympathetic to the argument that restricting marriage to opposite-sex couples was discriminatory.

"Millions of people understand that it's not bigotry to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and it's not right-wing to think that children need a mother and a father, not two mothers and two fathers," said Gary Bauer, president of American Values, a group opposed to same-sex marriage.

Opponents of gay and lesbian marriage are also pushing a federal constitutional amendment that would effectively ban same-sex marriage nationwide, though it failed to gain the needed two-thirds majority to pass when it came up for votes in both the House and Senate.

The federal amendment became an issue in the presidential race, with President Bush supporting the measure and Sen. John Kerry opposing it.

Despite their differences over the amendment, both Kerry and Bush were on record opposing same-sex marriage and supporting civil unions. Kerry has said he is not opposed to state constitutional bans.

With polls showing strong public opposition to same-sex marriage, groups fighting Tuesday's ballot measures conceded from the beginning that theirs was an uphill fight.

But they embraced the silver lining that the ballot measures were at least an opportunity to debate the issue.

"Public opinion does not change overnight," said Joan Garry, executive director for the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.

"We all know from personal experience you do not change somebody's mind on something they feel personally about without arguing about it."

In eight of the 11 states that voted Tuesday, the constitutional amendments contain additional language that opponents said could also ban civil unions and other legal protections for gay and lesbian people, though proponents in some of those states disputed those claims. The states are Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma and Utah.

The measure projected to be approved in Oklahoma went one step further by making it a misdemeanor crime to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple, a pre-emptive shot against any local officials who might want to follow in Newsom's footsteps.

Earlier this year, voters in Missouri and Louisiana also approved amendments banning same-sex marriage, although a judge in Louisiana later struck down that state's measure because of flawed ballot language. The state has appealed that ruling.

[strandinthewind]

No surprise there, esp. when in GA, the ballot only said it was to amend the State Const. to define marriage as between men and women and left out the lang. specifically prohibiting any civil effects of marriage to any other type of union.

Fu&* the religious right. I am trying to be even, but I wish right now God would smite them for using His name in vain.

[GateandGarden]

Thanks for all the info, Curtis. I'm disappointed and angry like you, of course. :distress:

Hillary

[ontheEdgeof17]

Damn....not even close in the polls.....80/20 75/25 and this is not even a full marriage issue....some states were voting on other rights as well....



So much for AMERICAN FREEDOM :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Jesus. Where is my country? :confused:

[GateandGarden]

Damn....not even close in the polls.....80/20 75/25 and this is not even a full marriage issue....some states were voting on other rights as well....



So much for AMERICAN FREEDOM :shrug:I'm with you. :shrug: :distress: :confused:

Hillary

[estranged4life]

Jesus. Where is my country? :confused:

Jesus could answer that...

Here are the latest numbers (Sadly) on issue 711 in Oklahoma:

81% reporting
Yes 797,231 74%
No 276,879 26%

So Oklahoma has let the religious right brainwash this state into "defining what marriage is"...

I do hope what I heard is true that someone is going to challenge this law as being discrimantory against what the idea of a family should be.

Brian j.

[sparky]

Jesus. Where is my country? :confused:


So obsessed with gay sex that I am surprised they can function. That's where they are.

[Johnny Stew]

"Millions of people understand that it's not bigotry to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and it's not right-wing to think that children need a mother and a father, not two mothers and two fathers," said Gary Bauer, president of American Values, a group opposed to same-sex marriage.

I don't care how anyone defends their actions, that still reeks of bigotry to me. What is compassionate and unprejudiced about saying that children NEED two heterosexual parents in order to be raised properly, or that it's a detriment to society if two people of the same gender can marry?? It would be one thing if these jackasses were at least supporting civil unions, but they're not even giving us that!

I wrote two letters to my congresswoman, Melissa Hart, earlier this year, and her response was that the amendment "only" has the "limited" ability to define marriage as being between a man and a woman, and that's why she supported it. "Only"?? "Limited"???

"Don't worry your pretty little homo head, we're only taking away the BIGGEST of your rights... not all of them!"

I hate when I give people too much credit, and mistake them for being enlightened. Or naively think that they can be reasoned with.

With polls showing strong public opposition to same-sex marriage, groups fighting Tuesday's ballot measures conceded from the beginning that theirs was an uphill fight.
But they embraced the silver lining that the ballot measures were at least an opportunity to debate the issue.

"Public opinion does not change overnight," said Joan Garry, executive director for the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.
"We all know from personal experience you do not change somebody's mind on something they feel personally about without arguing about it."

Joan is right. We've made progress, and the fight isn't over.
It's just a damn shame that so many people are still against an expression of LOVE.

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:

[sparky]

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:

Oh, I'd be down for that. But I would need artillery.

A lot of it.

[estranged4life]

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:

Mr.Librarian...But dont touch my single LIB DVD :lol:

Brian j.

[amber]

CNN) -- Six months after gay and lesbian couples won the right to marry in Massachusetts, opponents of same-sex marriage struck back Tuesday as voters in at least six states were projected to approve constitutional amendments codifying marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution.

Voters in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah cast ballots Tuesday on anti-same-sex marriage amendments.

CNN has projected that the bans will pass in all of those states except Oregon, where no projection can be made because polls have not yet closed.

Gay rights groups concentrated much of their effort and money in Oregon, where they thought they had the best chance of winning.

Opponents of the amendment raised about $2.8 million, enough to run TV and radio ads in the Beaver State and outspend pro-amendment forces, according to the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

The push to amend state constitutions to ban same-sex marriage gained steam in May after gay men and lesbians were granted the right to marry in Massachusetts -- thanks to the state's Supreme Judicial Court, which ruled that laws restricting marriage to heterosexuals violated the state constitution.

In the wake of that ruling, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom ordered his city clerk to begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, saying the California constitution also did not allow such distinctions to be made.

Local officials in a number of other states, including Oregon and New York, followed his lead.

The California Supreme Court later ruled that Newsom had overstepped his authority, although the legal fight over the larger constitutional question has yet to be resolved.

As the backlash grew, opponents of gay and lesbian marriage, including many religious conservatives, moved quickly to put amendments on state ballots to short-circuit similar rulings from courts sympathetic to the argument that restricting marriage to opposite-sex couples was discriminatory.

"Millions of people understand that it's not bigotry to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and it's not right-wing to think that children need a mother and a father, not two mothers and two fathers," said Gary Bauer, president of American Values, a group opposed to same-sex marriage.

Opponents of gay and lesbian marriage are also pushing a federal constitutional amendment that would effectively ban same-sex marriage nationwide, though it failed to gain the needed two-thirds majority to pass when it came up for votes in both the House and Senate.

The federal amendment became an issue in the presidential race, with President Bush supporting the measure and Sen. John Kerry opposing it.

Despite their differences over the amendment, both Kerry and Bush were on record opposing same-sex marriage and supporting civil unions. Kerry has said he is not opposed to state constitutional bans.

With polls showing strong public opposition to same-sex marriage, groups fighting Tuesday's ballot measures conceded from the beginning that theirs was an uphill fight.

But they embraced the silver lining that the ballot measures were at least an opportunity to debate the issue.

"Public opinion does not change overnight," said Joan Garry, executive director for the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.

"We all know from personal experience you do not change somebody's mind on something they feel personally about without arguing about it."

In eight of the 11 states that voted Tuesday, the constitutional amendments contain additional language that opponents said could also ban civil unions and other legal protections for gay and lesbian people, though proponents in some of those states disputed those claims. The states are Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma and Utah.

The measure projected to be approved in Oklahoma went one step further by making it a misdemeanor crime to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple, a pre-emptive shot against any local officials who might want to follow in Newsom's footsteps.

Earlier this year, voters in Missouri and Louisiana also approved amendments banning same-sex marriage, although a judge in Louisiana later struck down that state's measure because of flawed ballot language. The state has appealed that ruling.
It seems obvious to me, that if there is eternal damnation, it's the intolerant bastards who're going first. I don't care how many times they read the bible or went to church
That is wrong, wrong, wrong! :mad:

[amber]

I don't care how anyone defends their actions, that still reeks of bigotry to me. What is compassionate and unprejudiced about saying that children NEED two heterosexual parents in order to be raised properly, or that it's a detriment to society if two people of the same gender can marry?? It would be one thing if these jackasses were at least supporting civil unions, but they're not even giving us that!

I wrote two letters to my congresswoman, Melissa Hart, earlier this year, and her response was that the amendment "only" has the "limited" ability to define marriage as being between a man and a woman, and that's why she supported it. "Only"?? "Limited"???

"Don't worry your pretty little homo head, we're only taking away the BIGGEST of your rights... not all of them!"

I hate when I give people too much credit, and mistake them for being enlightened. Or naively think that they can be reasoned with.



Joan is right. We've made progress, and the fight isn't over.
It's just a damn shame that so many people are still against an expression of LOVE.

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:
I'll join! this pisses me off to the millionth degree... :mad:

[Sugar]

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:

I'm game! :thumbsup:

[amber]

Why can't people see that, if some peoples rights are threatened, all peoples are? An administration who'll take away gay rights, will take away yours, people...

[Johnny Stew]

Oh, I'd be down for that. But I would need artillery.

A lot of it.

I don't know... an army full of pissed-off and bitchy queens? Who needs artillery?? ;)

[Johnny Stew]

I got yer back... Mr.Librarian...But dont touch my single LIB DVD :lol:

You have my solemn word! Though I might beg to borrow it! :laugh: :cool:

[Johnny Stew]

I'll join! this pisses me off to the millionth degree... :mad:

Thatagirl, Amber... let the dark side of the force flow through you! We'll take 'em down yet!

(By the way, I call rights for the movie title: 'Attack Of The Queens.' ;) )

[Johnny Stew]

I'm game! :thumbsup:

Ok, we have five people on board! I'm thinking we might need to recruit a few more though. ;)

[GypsySorcerer]

I can't speak of other states, but I know in KY, the law already defined marriage between a man and a woman. What they voted on here was banning civil unions and domestic partner benefits....which hurts both gay and straight people. Bush has used this as a cultural wedge, for sure, which is very wrong.

[amber]

Thatagirl, Amber... let the dark side of the force flow through you! We'll take 'em down yet!

(By the way, I call rights for the movie title: 'Attack Of The Queens.' ;) )
GREAT! Um, but can I Still wear a crown, or tiara, or something? :laugh:
Perhaps i could be mistaken for boy-in-drag? hehehehe
I mean, Attack of the Queens, i gotta be in character!
Amber "off with their heads" G.

[Johnny Stew]

Bush has used this as a cultural wedge, for sure, which is very wrong.

Yes, the "Great Uniter" has become the greatest divider.

If this were a Bible parable, Georgie would be the snake.

[Johnny Stew]

GREAT! Um, but can I Still wear a crown, or tiara, or something? :laugh:

I'm not into drag, but we can ALL wear crowns/tiaras! It's our takeover, we can do anything we want! :D

[amber]

Yes, the "Great Uniter" has become the greatest divider.

If this were a Bible parable, Georgie would be the snake.
Hmmnn, i think he'd be judas...

[Johnny Stew]

Hmmnn, i think he'd be judas...

No. Because Judas wasn't all bad. He was misguided and mislead.
Georgie is definitely the slithering, fork-tongued snake.

[amber]

No. Because Judas wasn't all bad. He was misguided and mislead.
Georgie is definitely the slithering, fork-tongued snake.
Hmmn, i tend to think of him as evil, yet super dumb and misguided. to call him the snake attributes too much intelligence to him :laugh:
wait! could he be some evil roman ruler?
you know i don't know my bible like i should...
Amber

[Johnny Stew]

Hmmn, i tend to think of him as evil, yet super dumb and misguided. to call him the snake attributes too much intelligence to him :laugh:
wait! could he be some evil roman ruler?
you know i don't know my bible like i should...
Amber

Too bad he's not just dumb in the bumbling, innocuous Dan Quayle kinda way.
George IS dumb and misguided, but in the "I'm 100% right, and anyone who stands in my way must perish" kind of way.

Worst. President. Ever.
Oh, and three cheers to all who voted for him! We reap what we sew. :nod: :)

[amber]

Too bad he's not just dumb in the bumbling, innocuous Dan Quayle kinda way.
George IS dumb and misguided, but in the "I'm 100% right, and anyone who stands in my way must perish" kind of way.

Worst. President. Ever.
Oh, and three cheers to all who voted for him! We reap what we sew. :nod: :)
yep. But if he didn't have so much money, politics, and corporate money behind him...he would be so Quailin'
That's it, i'm not having kids...

[Moony]

It's just a damn shame that so many people are still against an expression of LOVE.

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:

I'll join you Johnny. This sh*t is appalling...I hate the religious right!

LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL

[amber]

I'll join you Johnny. This sh*t is appalling...I hate the religious right!

LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL
:nod:
yep. To requote my earlier post...
"Why can't people see that, if some peoples rights are threatened, all peoples are? An administration who'll take away gay rights, will take away yours, people..."

[Johnny Stew]

:nod:
yep. To requote my earlier post...
"Why can't people see that, if some peoples rights are threatened, all peoples are? An administration who'll take away gay rights, will take away yours, people..."

It's a matter of arrogance. We've even seen it demonstrated here on the Ledge a few times, in conversations about gay rights: "It doesn't affect me, so why should I care?"

We should all care when anyone's rights are threatened.

[amber]

It's a matter of arrogance. We've even seen it demonstrated here on the Ledge a few times, in conversations about gay rights: "It doesn't affect me, so why should I care?"

We should all care when anyone's rights are threatened.
It seems so obvious, to me, but i guess it's not.. :distress: I mean, if you've studied history, or anything, it just seems really obvious and logical :confused:

[Patti]

Johnny Stew, count me in. I'm right there with you all. What's so disgusting is these marriage bans have passed by huge margins in all the states where they were on the ballot. Unfortunately, I have the dubious distinction of living in the state, Missouri, where the first ban passed. As I said in the other thread, I am totally disheartened. I truly am having a hard time believing *my* country is like this. It's sickening me to the core.

[Mari]

:( This sucks. Somehow it doesn't surprise me, but still.

Well alright. Count me in.

[dissention]

The people of this country are pigs. There's no other way to say it.

[GateandGarden]

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:Count me in! :laugh:

Hillary

[ontheEdgeof17]

We were talking about this in my Community Nursing class and one of my classmates said "For the first time, women are getting to vote in Afganistan.
He is freeing that country."

I shot up out of my seat and said "He is freeing the Middle East but telling me, an American, a person under his command, that I can't legally commit to who I love? That's **** that he wants freedom in other countries while condeming freedom in the land of the free."


I'm usually not outspoken about gay rights...aka EQUAL RIGHTS...but I'm getting heated now. :mad:

[Johnny Stew]

I shot up out of my seat and said "He is freeing the Middle East but telling me, an American, a person under his command, that I can't legally commit to who I love? That's **** that he wants freedom in other countries while condeming freedom in the land of the free."

I'm usually not outspoken about gay rights...aka EQUAL RIGHTS...but I'm getting heated now. :mad:

Congratulations on speaking up and out, Curtis.
I used to be more passive regarding gay rights... never saw myself as much of a political person, and felt that others were far more capable than I was, to intelligently and articulately stand up for the things I believe in.

But over the last few years, I realized that the only person capable of standing up for me, is me.
If I want something, I have to fight for it.

So, welcome to the ranks, Brother Curtis. We're going to win this battle yet. :nod: :)

[GateandGarden]

We were talking about this in my Community Nursing class and one of my classmates said "For the first time, women are getting to vote in Afganistan.
He is freeing that country."

I shot up out of my seat and said "He is freeing the Middle East but telling me, an American, a person under his command, that I can't legally commit to who I love? That's **** that he wants freedom in other countries while condeming freedom in the land of the free."


I'm usually not outspoken about gay rights...aka EQUAL RIGHTS...but I'm getting heated now. :mad:Yay Curtis! I'm so glad you spoke out! I'm not always so bold!

Hillary

[Mari]

It's a matter of arrogance. We've even seen it demonstrated here on the Ledge a few times, in conversations about gay rights: "It doesn't affect me, so why should I care?"

We should all care when anyone's rights are threatened.

Huh? DéjÃ* vu all over again. Didn't I say these exact words, here, some time ago? Oh whatever, we don't want to bring thát ledgewar back, do we. Funny to see you agree with me now, though.

[strandinthewind]

This letter appeared in Friday’s AJC. For those of you who may not know who she is, Sadie Fields has been a key force in gettomg the proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage on the ballot. She lobbied state legislators and organized rallies while the Georgia House and Senate debated the measure, which voters will decide at the polls Tuesday. As chairwoman of the Christian Coalition, she directed publication of an influential voter scorecard and is working with a large network of churches to help turn out voters on Election Day.

Reject my mother's bigotry

By TESS FIELDS
Published on: 10/29/04

I am the daughter of Sadie Fields, president of the Christian Coalition of Georgia. I was appalled by the column my mother wrote justifying her bigotry, and I feel compelled to respond ("Can't let the few hurt society as a whole," @issue, Oct. 25).

The first time there was a definitive split between my mother and me, I was in the seventh grade. My best friend's name was Lisa. She was Jewish. Concerned about what our pastor had stated about Jews in the afterlife, I went to my mother and asked her if Lisa was going to burn in hell. My mother's response, "If she does not accept the Lord Jesus then yes, she will go to hell." Right there, she lost me. I have disagreed with her ever since.

I was 24 years old when my mother, through a series of mishaps, found out I was gay. My mother came over to where I worked, screaming, and told me I was "dead" to the family. She called me "sick," "crazy" and "of the devil." She said that I would never see my family again.

For more than five years after that day, I heard nothing from my family. No birthday cards, no invitations to Christmas or Thanksgiving events. It wasn't just the loss of my immediate family that was difficult, but the loss of my extended family as well. Since my mother refused to be in the same room with me, it forced my aunts and uncles to choose sides. I have not been to a family reunion in more than a decade.

When my partner, Trisha, and I decided to have a child, we were not unlike most couples making this decision. We considered whether or not we were emotionally and financially ready. We considered the ways that it would change our lives and our relationship with each other.

After two years of planning, I gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. Trisha, during the pregnancy, held my hair out of my face when I vomited from morning sickness. She attended birthing classes, cooked organic meals for me every single night, and calmed my fears about the labor. We bought baby books and argued about names, started a college fund, and perused garage sales for the best deals on cribs and diaper-changing stations.

The only thing unusual about our pregnancy was the critical necessity of a lawyer.

Given my mother's abject hostility toward gay and lesbian people, in the process of my pregnancy we had to spend thousands of dollars protecting ourselves from her potential interference. In spite of the fact that she has never, in more than a decade, visited me, and has written numerous articles comparing me to pedophiles and people who have sex with animals, according to the law, my mother has more rights to our child than Trisha.

What if I died during the birth? What if something happened to me before the lawyers could get the adoption finalized? These were the kinds of fears that our family had to face, and we felt robbed. Expecting a child should be a wonderful moment in a couple's life. Pregnancy, in and of itself, can be challenging, but the greater excitement of a baby on the way seems to balance these fears for most people. My family, however, had to be concerned about my mother's extremism, and what legal grounds she had if she decided to try and take Trisha's child. And then we had to prepare, meticulously, if that threat were ever realized.

A friend once told me that becoming a parent does two things: It teaches you to love in a whole new way, and it teaches you to fear in a whole new way. It was not until I became pregnant that I understood completely what she meant.

While some people may disagree about gay marriage, passing a constitutional amendment ensuring that one group of people is singled out to be treated differently is wrong. The state's constitution is for protecting our most basic and important rights. It should not be used to settle partisan, religious, or ideological disputes. And it should never be changed in a way that hurts people. But Amendment One would deny thousands of gay and lesbian Georgians and their families access to health care, fair survivor rights and the ability to make lifesaving medical decisions. We may disagree about social issues such as marriage, but those disagreements do not belong in the state constitution.

So my fellow, fair-minded Georgians, I am writing to encourage you not to follow my mother's lead. Learn from our example. For all of the struggles my family experienced while I was growing up, none has been more damaging to its foundation than my mother's religious extremism and fervent black and white ideology. We have not been in the same room together for more than 11 years. My mother's religion has left us not merely splintered, but broken. It leaves no room for compromise or even mutual respect for people that have different ideologies.

But most importantly, I have this to say. If we lose this battle on Nov. 2, I want to let my gay and straight friends in Georgia know that we will not lose the war. Celebrate and be proud of who you are and the strong families that you have created. Spit in the eye of your oppressor with the ultimate revenge; be happy, be successful and live your life fully and completely, as God intended.

For those of you voting no on Amendment One, thank you for standing up for families like mine. Thank you for making the world a safer place for our son. Thank you for helping ensure that he receives good health care. Regardless of what happens to me, he will continue to grow safely in the arms of his loving mother and grandparents. Thank you for not allowing a form of religious extremism that leaves families shattered and broken to be written into law, becoming a way of life for all.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tess Fields is a manager with a Portland, Ore. affiliate of Planned Parenthood.

[estranged4life]

those who voted for Oklahoma's state question 711 do not realize as of yet that the issue not only bans gay men/women from marriage but it also gives the state the power to no longer accept "common law marriages" as law and to also deny those common law marriages the same rights as regularly (Defined) marriages...

Betcha those who are in favor 711 who are common married will NOW wished they thought differently...

Brian "Both Deb & myself voted to defeat 711...But y'all knew that already" j.

[Nixxxed]

Who wants to join forces with me for a Queer Takeover? ;) :laugh:

Whew! I was just waiting for someone to ask. Off to iron my uniform and clean my guns... :laugh:

"Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition..."

[Johnny Stew]

Huh? DéjÃ* vu all over again. Didn't I say these exact words, here, some time ago? Oh whatever, we don't want to bring thát ledgewar back, do we. Funny to see you agree with me now, though.

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but I have my guesses.
But if anyone has ever felt I've done something to quash someone's rights, then they have the wrong idea about me.

There's a difference between denying rights and maintaining rules, and I'm perfectly capable of fighting against the denial of rights while being respectful of rules and decorum.

I would've thought I had demonstrated that a thousand times over by now....

[Johnny Stew]

But most importantly, I have this to say. If we lose this battle on Nov. 2, I want to let my gay and straight friends in Georgia know that we will not lose the war. Celebrate and be proud of who you are and the strong families that you have created. Spit in the eye of your oppressor with the ultimate revenge; be happy, be successful and live your life fully and completely, as God intended.

Amen. :nod: :)

[Johnny Stew]

Whew! I was just waiting for someone to ask. Off to iron my uniform and clean my guns... :laugh:

"Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition..."

Glad to have you aboard, Chuck!

That reminds me, I need to make a trip to the Military Surplus store.... :cool:

[SuzeQuze]

It seems obvious to me, that if there is eternal damnation, it's the intolerant bastards who're going first. I don't care how many times they read the bible or went to church
That is wrong, wrong, wrong! :mad:

Right Amber, didn't Jesus say "the meek shall inherit the earth"? And Tracy Chapman "Poor people gonna rise up, take their share". ;) It's getting scary, I'm smelling a Revolution.

~Susan

[SuzeQuze]

Omigod, this is the sick b*tch who got the question on ballots? Who could turn away their daughter like that? I'm going to vomit. Tess is lovely for writing this.

~Susan

This letter appeared in Friday’s AJC. For those of you who may not know who she is, Sadie Fields has been a key force in gettomg the proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage on the ballot. She lobbied state legislators and organized rallies while the Georgia House and Senate debated the measure, which voters will decide at the polls Tuesday. As chairwoman of the Christian Coalition, she directed publication of an influential voter scorecard and is working with a large network of churches to help turn out voters on Election Day.

Reject my mother's bigotry

By TESS FIELDS
Published on: 10/29/04

I am the daughter of Sadie Fields, president of the Christian Coalition of Georgia. I was appalled by the column my mother wrote justifying her bigotry, and I feel compelled to respond ("Can't let the few hurt society as a whole," @issue, Oct. 25).

The first time there was a definitive split between my mother and me, I was in the seventh grade. My best friend's name was Lisa. She was Jewish. Concerned about what our pastor had stated about Jews in the afterlife, I went to my mother and asked her if Lisa was going to burn in hell. My mother's response, "If she does not accept the Lord Jesus then yes, she will go to hell." Right there, she lost me. I have disagreed with her ever since.

I was 24 years old when my mother, through a series of mishaps, found out I was gay. My mother came over to where I worked, screaming, and told me I was "dead" to the family. She called me "sick," "crazy" and "of the devil." She said that I would never see my family again.

For more than five years after that day, I heard nothing from my family. No birthday cards, no invitations to Christmas or Thanksgiving events. It wasn't just the loss of my immediate family that was difficult, but the loss of my extended family as well. Since my mother refused to be in the same room with me, it forced my aunts and uncles to choose sides. I have not been to a family reunion in more than a decade.

When my partner, Trisha, and I decided to have a child, we were not unlike most couples making this decision. We considered whether or not we were emotionally and financially ready. We considered the ways that it would change our lives and our relationship with each other.

After two years of planning, I gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. Trisha, during the pregnancy, held my hair out of my face when I vomited from morning sickness. She attended birthing classes, cooked organic meals for me every single night, and calmed my fears about the labor. We bought baby books and argued about names, started a college fund, and perused garage sales for the best deals on cribs and diaper-changing stations.

The only thing unusual about our pregnancy was the critical necessity of a lawyer.

Given my mother's abject hostility toward gay and lesbian people, in the process of my pregnancy we had to spend thousands of dollars protecting ourselves from her potential interference. In spite of the fact that she has never, in more than a decade, visited me, and has written numerous articles comparing me to pedophiles and people who have sex with animals, according to the law, my mother has more rights to our child than Trisha.

What if I died during the birth? What if something happened to me before the lawyers could get the adoption finalized? These were the kinds of fears that our family had to face, and we felt robbed. Expecting a child should be a wonderful moment in a couple's life. Pregnancy, in and of itself, can be challenging, but the greater excitement of a baby on the way seems to balance these fears for most people. My family, however, had to be concerned about my mother's extremism, and what legal grounds she had if she decided to try and take Trisha's child. And then we had to prepare, meticulously, if that threat were ever realized.

A friend once told me that becoming a parent does two things: It teaches you to love in a whole new way, and it teaches you to fear in a whole new way. It was not until I became pregnant that I understood completely what she meant.

While some people may disagree about gay marriage, passing a constitutional amendment ensuring that one group of people is singled out to be treated differently is wrong. The state's constitution is for protecting our most basic and important rights. It should not be used to settle partisan, religious, or ideological disputes. And it should never be changed in a way that hurts people. But Amendment One would deny thousands of gay and lesbian Georgians and their families access to health care, fair survivor rights and the ability to make lifesaving medical decisions. We may disagree about social issues such as marriage, but those disagreements do not belong in the state constitution.

So my fellow, fair-minded Georgians, I am writing to encourage you not to follow my mother's lead. Learn from our example. For all of the struggles my family experienced while I was growing up, none has been more damaging to its foundation than my mother's religious extremism and fervent black and white ideology. We have not been in the same room together for more than 11 years. My mother's religion has left us not merely splintered, but broken. It leaves no room for compromise or even mutual respect for people that have different ideologies.

But most importantly, I have this to say. If we lose this battle on Nov. 2, I want to let my gay and straight friends in Georgia know that we will not lose the war. Celebrate and be proud of who you are and the strong families that you have created. Spit in the eye of your oppressor with the ultimate revenge; be happy, be successful and live your life fully and completely, as God intended.

For those of you voting no on Amendment One, thank you for standing up for families like mine. Thank you for making the world a safer place for our son. Thank you for helping ensure that he receives good health care. Regardless of what happens to me, he will continue to grow safely in the arms of his loving mother and grandparents. Thank you for not allowing a form of religious extremism that leaves families shattered and broken to be written into law, becoming a way of life for all.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tess Fields is a manager with a Portland, Ore. affiliate of Planned Parenthood.

[Johnny Stew]

Right Amber, didn't Jesus say "the meek shall inherit the earth"?

Yes, he did. :nod:

The Book of Matthew, Chapter 5....

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)

Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land. (Verse 4)

Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)

Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


"A change gonna come...."

[amber]

Yes, he did. :nod:

The Book of Matthew, Chapter 5....

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)

Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land. (Verse 4)

Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)

Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


"A change gonna come...."
Bush is the opposite of all that....

[estranged4life]

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)


I always say it this way:

"Blessed are the War-mongers: for they shall be called man made Gods.


"A change gonna come...."

That wouldnt be Hillary in 2008 would it??? :nod: ...Man, Repubs be afraid...VERY AFRAID!!!

Brian j.

[Mari]

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but I have my guesses.
But if anyone has ever felt I've done something to quash someone's rights, then they have the wrong idea about me.

There's a difference between denying rights and maintaining rules, and I'm perfectly capable of fighting against the denial of rights while being respectful of rules and decorum.

I would've thought I had demonstrated that a thousand times over by now....

Ah, I can almost see you making a big theatrical sigh, there ;)

I'm referring to an exledgie who expressed some very homophobic ideas on this board. And when I made that exact same argument, you did not agree with me, you did not stand with me on that. The way I remember it, you said something along the line of "so many people are homophobic, why say something this time".

So, I think it's rather funny to see you copying the words I used then, and now agreeing with it.
But it's ok though. Rather have you with me on that. Nice to see you can change your opinion for the better.

[dissention]

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)

I quite like that, actually. :thumbsup:

[Johnny Stew]

I'm referring to an exledgie who expressed some very homophobic ideas on this board. And when I made that exact same argument, you did not agree with me, you did not stand with me on that. The way I remember it, you said something along the line of "so many people are homophobic, why say something this time".

I really said that??
I mean, I'm not saying you're lying, it's just that I can't remember saying that, and I have a hard time believing I ever would say something like that. Telling someone not to speak up for themselves is out of character for me.

I mean, I do know that I most definitely said he had a right to express his feelings against homosexuality, even if I vehemently disagreed with him on all points (especially his ideas regarding the so-called "gay lifestyle"), but I have a very hard time imagining that I ever told you (or anyone else) not to speak out about it, in turn.

The only thing I can think of that may have caused you to have that interpretation of what I meant, is that I know I did caution you and others to be careful not to sink to behaviour beneath yourselves when dealing with certain people.
It was a volatile situation, and I like to see people who are on "my side" (so to speak) not sinking to the childish levels of others.

I honestly apologize if I inadvertantly gave the wrong impression... it sure wasn't what I intented.

[SuzeQuze]

I quite like that, actually. :thumbsup:

Me too. The "real" Jesus rules. I don't know how this extremists have gotten it all screwed up.

[Johnny Stew]

I don't know how this extremists have gotten it all screwed up.

Pssst... the most effective way to excuse hatred (one of the seven deadly sins, by the way) is to claim that it's in God's name.

Give me a few more months, and I'll have about a dozen passages in the Bible to justify my disdain of people who drive too slowly! ;)

[strandinthewind]

Pssst... the most effective way to excuse hatred (one of the seven deadly sins, by the way) is to claim that it's in God's name.

Give me a few more months, and I'll have about a dozen passages in the Bible to justify my disdain of people who drive too slowly! ;)

esp. since Jesus never said the word gay, faggott, homosexual, etc. I mean not only did gay people not make the top ten in the Old Testament, Christ did not think their alleged "sin" important enough to discuss :shrug:

[Mari]

I really said that??
I mean, I'm not saying you're lying, it's just that I can't remember saying that, and I have a hard time believing I ever would say something like that. Telling someone not to speak up for themselves is out of character for me.

I mean, I do know that I most definitely said he had a right to express his feelings against homosexuality, even if I vehemently disagreed with him on all points (especially his ideas regarding the so-called "gay lifestyle"), but I have a very hard time imagining that I ever told you (or anyone else) not to speak out about it, in turn.

The only thing I can think of that may have caused you to have that interpretation of what I meant, is that I know I did caution you and others to be careful not to sink to behaviour beneath yourselves when dealing with certain people.
It was a volatile situation, and I like to see people who are on "my side" (so to speak) not sinking to the childish levels of others.

I honestly apologize if I inadvertantly gave the wrong impression... it sure wasn't what I intented.

Oh, I don't think I could ever manage to sink to This Level. (http://whois-online.net/cgi-bin/host2/firebook.cgi?account=356) :(
Actually, when it comes to that little history, I'm not ashamed at all, whatever you're insinuating here. All I did was stand up for my rights and let know I don't find homophobia acceptable.
Fine, that's what you're doing too, now.

[DrummerDeanna]

This whole thing has me totally and truly disgusted.

In my opinion the religious right are a bunch of extremist non-Christians - no matter what they say it IS NOT enough to just say you love God or Jesus because all they're doing is spreading hatred and bigotry.

I have an uncle who is fundamentalist - and he DOES feel justified in his dislike for homosexuals - he once laid hands on me and tried to save me to which I was like..."um - no don't need saving thanks..."

It really truly boggles my mind - and that letter by Tess Fields! wow - good stuff - but it made me even more upset at the struggle she had to go through - and being totally cut-off by her family?? THAT is not Christian - that does not show good Moral/Family Values...

Errrr...I'm just SO mad....I'm going to stop making any sense here in a sec...so I'll stop...

[Johnny Stew]

Actually, when it comes to that little history, I'm not ashamed at all, whatever you're insinuating here. All I did was stand up for my rights and let know I don't find homophobia acceptable.
Fine, that's what you're doing too, now.

Mari... I wasn't insinuating anything at all. :confused:
Just trying to explain what I thought may have lead to the misunderstanding between us (which, to be honest, I didn't even know existed until you brought this up).

I thought I was complimenting you when I said that I feel you're above sinking to a level of immaturity... didn't realize I was somehow insinuating the opposite. :shrug:

(By the way, and perhaps you don't recall... but I argued against his homophobia, too. Quite adamantly, in fact.)

Anyway, don't know what else I can say at this point.