Gold & Braid and the ever changing lyric [Archive]

AliP

09-27-2004, 12:05 AM

I was always curious about the significance of the lyric in Gold & Braid...
"Because I never did not love you, I never did run from you, In a dream I said to you that I would always love you."

Since Stevie has said that this song is about Lindsey...I'm just wondering why she always changes that lyric. If the "I" she is talking about is her, then she is singing from her perspective.

But, then I was listening to a bootleg today: San Fran 12/3/81 and she sings it this way...(I haven't actually listened closely enough to the other bootlegs from the BD tour so I'm not sure if she did this during all the shows or just during this one)
"Because you never did not love me, you never did run from me, In a dream you said to me that you would always love me."

So now, it seems that she is singing the lyric from Lindsey's perspective. Then, of course, on the Enchanted tour, she totally omitted that lyric all together. Very strange. I wonder why she would do this...seems very deliberate. I think this song has a much deeper meaning than even I can imagine. Any thoughts on this??

Kelly

09-27-2004, 07:01 AM

skcin

09-27-2004, 08:26 AM

I really have no idea why Stevie changed those lyrics in 81 but I was crushed she omitted them during Enchanted!
I will say that I think MUCH of what Stevie does has signifigance and whenever she changes lyrics, I think it is meaningful to her for some reason at that specific time. Sometimes she adlibs spontaneously but I think most of the time when she does it, she is doing it for a reason. Take the last night of the SYW tour for example, she changed one line in GB from "don't forget me" to "don't forsake me". Why? I have no idea, but just a random slip of the tongue? I don't think so.

I agree, Kelly. Sometimes she just flubs a line, but that's usually pretty obvious. Many times it's smoother & doesn't sound like a mistake at all - more like she MEANT to sing it differently.

Paula

PS - I have never noticed that she sang G&B with those lyrics, I'll have to go back & check my BD boots...

gldstwmn

09-27-2004, 10:18 AM

The demo version has the lyrics "when all the light is gone, there is lightning." I never knew this song was about Lindsey.
I would have to agree that the ad libs have special meaning to her at the time. There are so many, I couldn't even begin to list them all.

strandinthewind

09-27-2004, 11:45 AM

AliP

09-27-2004, 01:45 PM

Not that I know him at all, but from the interviews I have seen of him, I just could never see LB saying "don't hide behind your hair that way - baby" :laugh: - so, I think it is about Jimmy Iovine and, perhaps, Paul Fishkin. But, it could be about all three and maybe a few more :laugh:

Here is a quote from Stevie:

Billboard-April 18, 1998
"Gold and Braid is another song on Enchanted is an unreleased track from my Bella Donna sessions, and it's about Lindsey wanting more from me in our relationship. But wanting to know everything about someone, which goes hand in hand with being in love, was never something, I'd ever wanted to share with anybody. Professionally, everybody always wanted me to be their idea of what I should be. I'd flat out look at people and say, 'You know I'm not gonna do what you want, so why do you bother?'"

Doesn't mean it's entirely about Lindsey...but I think that most of it is.

AliP

09-27-2004, 01:47 PM

I really have no idea why Stevie changed those lyrics in 81 but I was crushed she omitted them during Enchanted!

Yes, I agree!! I was so disappointed when she left out those lyrics. IMO, those lyrics are the most powerful and meaningful lyrics in the entire song.

strandinthewind

09-27-2004, 01:56 PM

Here is a quote from Stevie:

Billboard-April 18, 1998
"Gold and Braid is another song on Enchanted is an unreleased track from my Bella Donna sessions, and it's about Lindsey wanting more from me in our relationship. But wanting to know everything about someone, which goes hand in hand with being in love, was never something, I'd ever wanted to share with anybody. Professionally, everybody always wanted me to be their idea of what I should be. I'd flat out look at people and say, 'You know I'm not gonna do what you want, so why do you bother?'"

Doesn't mean it's entirely about Lindsey...but I think that most of it is.

LOL - that explanation is as vague as the song - Lord love her :laugh: But, LB is in there somewhere and obviously alot!!!!!!!!!

AliP

09-27-2004, 02:48 PM

LOL - that explanation is as vague as the song - Lord love her :laugh: But, LB is in there somewhere and obviously alot!!!!!!!!!

Even with the quote, it's possible other men are woven into the song. However, Maybe it's just me, but I just don't think that quote could be about anyone other than Lindsey :)

gldstwmn

09-27-2004, 03:18 PM

Kelly

09-28-2004, 06:38 AM

strandinthewind

09-28-2004, 08:40 AM

I agree Ali, I thought the same thing. It's not like she is saying LB actually said dont hide behind your hair baby! He wanted her to open up, not hide her feelings, tell him everything. Not really vague to me and completely typical of LB and SN's relationship. (power/control)

Where I was getting the LB saying it thing was in concert (at least the ones I went to) she sings (emphasis supplied) "and he said don't hide behind your hair that way baby . . ."

So, I was taking that to mean LB was saying it because she is saying "he said" - so, if this song is all about LB, then LB must be saying it (literally) as LB is the "he" of the song - and I just could never think of LB as saying that :laugh: But, the reason it is vague to me is that in the explanation, she syas "Professionally, everybody always wanted me to be their idea of what I should be. I'd flat out look at people and say, 'You know I'm not gonna do what you want, so why do you bother?'" - that implies a response to a question or statement by these other people. That is where I got that there could be more than one actor in this song and that person could be the "he" saying "don't hide behind your hair . . . ."

But, to each their own :cool:

David

09-28-2004, 11:04 AM

The demo version has the lyrics "when all the light is gone, there is lightning." I never knew this song was about Lindsey.I've always liked Stevie's lyrical forays into meteorology!

Great song, this one is -- one of my favorites.

Josh2003

09-28-2004, 11:14 AM

I adore Stevie, as most people know, but I really don't think that she puts that much thought into what she ad-libs live. Just because she changed the lyrics up a bit doesn't mean that her "new" lyrics have some significant meaning.

Case in point, at the TISL show in Cleveland, she simply messed up the lyrics to "Planets of the Universe"...instead of saying "They go into the seas that have no shores," she said "they go into the shores that have no seas"...she started singing the next line and you could tell by the look on her face that she realized she had messed up and that the next line wouldn't rhyme. So she obviously made up, on the spot, the next line that she sang: "...haunted by that same fantasy".

So I can just see in 5 years someone listening to this bootleg and trying to analyze what Stevie meant when she sang it that way. I think sometimes she just throws things in and doesn't really pay attention to what the "meaning" behind her words is.

David

09-28-2004, 11:28 AM

I adore Stevie, as most people know, but I really don't think that she puts that much thought into what she ad-libs live. Just because she changed the lyrics up a bit doesn't mean that her "new" lyrics have some significant meaning.

So I can just see in 5 years someone listening to this bootleg and trying to analyze what Stevie meant when she sang it that way. I think sometimes she just throws things in and doesn't really pay attention to what the "meaning" behind her words is.
I agree with Josh. People who perform onstage will tell you that you can know lyrics perfectly well in rehearsal & soundcheck but your mind will suddenly go blank in front of an audience -- & yet you are somehow able to spontaneously "create" entirely new lyrics that flow with the music. I just played some shows with my FM group, & the guy on lead, Marcus, forgot a bunch of words to "Monday Morning" but he just started singing words that "fit" out of nowhere. It's as if your brain tells you: "Paying customers are watching you now so you'd better sing SOMETHING that sounds like the song." If he had forgotten the words during rehearsal, he'd have just stumbled around or stopped singing entirely, but the adrenalin you get in front of people provides words for you! Much of the time, it seems to be that way with Stevie.

It's probably like being able to lift a car off a trapped child -- when ordinarily there's no way in hell you could lift that weight.

skcin

09-28-2004, 11:46 AM

Case in point, at the TISL show in Cleveland, she simply messed up the lyrics to "Planets of the Universe"...instead of saying "They go into the seas that have no shores," she said "they go into the shores that have no seas"...she started singing the next line and you could tell by the look on her face that she realized she had messed up and that the next line wouldn't rhyme. So she obviously made up, on the spot, the next line that she sang: "...haunted by that same fantasy".

I agree with you to a point - like I said earlier, she does mess up lyrics a lot accidentally, but it's usually pretty obvious (I was actually thinking of the example you just gave.)

But I do think that there've been times that she purposely changes lyrics. I really don't think the "take your silver springs and dig your grave" line was a flub. :distress:

Paula

dissention

09-28-2004, 01:52 PM

But I do think that there've been times that she purposely changes lyrics. I really don't think the "take your silver springs and dig your grave" line was a flub. :distress:

Yeah, but she was singing it a whole year before the battle for the song erupted. :woohoo:

amber

09-28-2004, 02:44 PM

Where I was getting the LB saying it thing was in concert (at least the ones I went to) she sings (emphasis supplied) "and he said don't hide behind your hair that way baby . . ."

So, I was taking that to mean LB was saying it because she is saying "he said" - so, if this song is all about LB, then LB must be saying it (literally) as LB is the "he" of the song - and I just could never think of LB as saying that :laugh: But, the reason it is vague to me is that in the explanation, she syas "Professionally, everybody always wanted me to be their idea of what I should be. I'd flat out look at people and say, 'You know I'm not gonna do what you want, so why do you bother?'" - that implies a response to a question or statement by these other people. That is where I got that there could be more than one actor in this song and that person could be the "he" saying "don't hide behind your hair . . . ."

But, to each their own :cool:
I agree. Before I read the quote from her above, mentioning Linds, I never thought it was about Linds...I vote for amalgam..
Amber

AliP

09-28-2004, 03:01 PM

Case in point, at the TISL show in Cleveland, she simply messed up the lyrics to "Planets of the Universe"...instead of saying "They go into the seas that have no shores," she said "they go into the shores that have no seas"...she started singing the next line and you could tell by the look on her face that she realized she had messed up and that the next line wouldn't rhyme. So she obviously made up, on the spot, the next line that she sang: "...haunted by that same fantasy".

I agree that Stevie does mess up lyrics unintentionally. But, with the example you gave, I don't really see any huge hidden meaning behind those words. Seas and shores...eh, nothing really too deep there, to me anyway. But, words where she is changing who they are directed at, and then ommitting them all together speaks of a different tale, IMO.

And I don't care what anybody says, :) I think when she sang "take your silver springs and dig your grave" it was deliberate and meant something. Doesn't matter if the whole Silver Springs fiasco had not happened yet...it could have meant many things and maybe wasn't even directed at Mick. But, I believe it was directed at somebody.

Oona

09-28-2004, 04:52 PM

Here is a quote from Stevie:

Billboard-April 18, 1998
"Gold and Braid is another song on Enchanted is an unreleased track from my Bella Donna sessions, and it's about Lindsey wanting more from me in our relationship. But wanting to know everything about someone, which goes hand in hand with being in love, was never something, I'd ever wanted to share with anybody. Professionally, everybody always wanted me to be their idea of what I should be. I'd flat out look at people and say, 'You know I'm not gonna do what you want, so why do you bother?'"

Doesn't mean it's entirely about Lindsey...but I think that most of it is.\

I am glad to see that I wasn't the only one that found this obtuse. I guess my brain and her's function in radically different ways. Yet through all that, I still connect. Stevie continues to be enigmatic to me, and my appreciation of her perplexes me even more. I am not sure why I like her so much, but I just do.......

"Oh well, oh well, oh well." P. Green

amber

09-28-2004, 05:35 PM

Here is a quote from Stevie:

Doesn't mean it's entirely about Lindsey...but I think that most of it is.\

I am glad to see that I wasn't the only one that found this obtuse. I guess my brain and her's function in radically different ways. Yet through all that, I still connect. Stevie continues to be enigmatic to me, and my appreciation of her perplexes me even more. I am not sure why I like her so much, but I just do.......

"Oh well, oh well, oh well." P. Green
It's her voice quality. It's a trap. It sucks into your brain and sticks to it. Also her emotional/nature based lyrics lull your mind into thinking you're listening to something of great beauty and depth.
Amber

skcin

09-29-2004, 08:20 AM

And I don't care what anybody says, :) I think when she sang "take your silver springs and dig your grave" it was deliberate and meant something. Doesn't matter if the whole Silver Springs fiasco had not happened yet...it could have meant many things and maybe wasn't even directed at Mick. But, I believe it was directed at somebody.

Exactly. Plus, do we REALLY know when the fight over SS started? We know when it became more public, but who knows how long it had been going on behind the scenes. :shrug:

Paula

David

09-29-2004, 11:32 AM

Exactly. Plus, do we REALLY know when the fight over SS started? We know when it became more public, but who knows how long it had been going on behind the scenes. :shrug: We have a number of clues that it didn't erupt until 1991. According to press reports, Stevie didn't start to compile "Timespace" until after the Fleetwood Mac tour wrapped up in December 1990. She went home to Phoenix for the rest of December to spend the holidays with her family, as she traditionally does. "Timespace" mixing didn't start until the new year.

At the end of the Fleetwood Mac tour, Stevie & Christine both planned to continue recording with Fleetwood Mac, as they told audiences at the last shows. But by August 1991, Stevie told Datebook: "Right now, I'm in the middle of a very big fight with Mick. ... It's a pretty sad way to end Fleetwood Mac. This is going to be a shock to the rest of the band when they see the stupidity of Mick's decision."

She told another source that summer: "Right now I'm not very happy with Mick, & it's over a pretty serious thing. He won't give in & I feel it's unfair, & since he's not considering my feelings & I've always considered his, for the first time in my life I can actually say, 'No, I'm not going to tour with them or work with them on a record.' "

So at some point after she started mixing "Timespace," she says, "I called him on a Friday, & said, 'If I don't have that tape of Silver Springs by Monday, I'm out.' He had three days & didn't deliver."

She gave the BBC an interview in September 1991: "I told Dennis [Dunstan, Mick's manager] what I wanted. I said, 'I want Silver Springs because it belongs to my mother.' ... When Timespace came around, it didn't occur to me that they wouldn't let me have it back. Switching back quickly to the night I called Mick a couple of months ago, & he didn't want to return my call, I talked to his manager & I said: 'Well, you find Mick, & you tell him that if I don't get those tapes by Monday, I am no longer a member of Fleetwood Mac.' And he said, 'Okay, give me till 10:30. I'll find Mick. Don't do anything yet.' And I said, 'Okay.' And at about 10:15 Dennis called back & said that he had finally tracked Mick down. And Mick had said, 'Over my dead body will I ever give that song back.' And now he has ruined Fleetwood Mac's future."

amber

09-29-2004, 11:46 AM

at about 10:15 Dennis called back & said that he had finally tracked Mick down. And Mick had said, 'Over my dead body will I ever give that song back.' And now he has ruined Fleetwood Mac's future."
Woah! He is so lucky she didn't stick to this! What a snarf hole. But, of course, he was also the one back in the day who told her that it wasn't gonna be on Rumours, so they coulda had a fight about it back then, too.
Amber

dissention

09-29-2004, 11:58 AM

We have a number of clues that it didn't erupt until 1991. According to press reports, Stevie didn't start to compile "Timespace" until after the Fleetwood Mac tour wrapped up in December 1990. She went home to Phoenix for the rest of December to spend the holidays with her family, as she traditionally does. "Timespace" mixing didn't start until the new year.

At the end of the Fleetwood Mac tour, Stevie & Christine both planned to continue recording with Fleetwood Mac, as they told audiences at the last shows. But by August 1991, Stevie told Datebook: "Right now, I'm in the middle of a very big fight with Mick. ... It's a pretty sad way to end Fleetwood Mac. This is going to be a shock to the rest of the band when they see the stupidity of Mick's decision."

She told another source that summer: "Right now I'm not very happy with Mick, & it's over a pretty serious thing. He won't give in & I feel it's unfair, & since he's not considering my feelings & I've always considered his, for the first time in my life I can actually say, 'No, I'm not going to tour with them or work with them on a record.' "

So at some point after she started mixing "Timespace," she says, "I called him on a Friday, & said, 'If I don't have that tape of Silver Springs by Monday, I'm out.' He had three days & didn't deliver."

She gave the BBC an interview in September 1991: "I told Dennis [Dunstan, Mick's manager] what I wanted. I said, 'I want Silver Springs because it belongs to my mother.' ... When Timespace came around, it didn't occur to me that they wouldn't let me have it back. Switching back quickly to the night I called Mick a couple of months ago, & he didn't want to return my call, I talked to his manager & I said: 'Well, you find Mick, & you tell him that if I don't get those tapes by Monday, I am no longer a member of Fleetwood Mac.' And he said, 'Okay, give me till 10:30. I'll find Mick. Don't do anything yet.' And I said, 'Okay.' And at about 10:15 Dennis called back & said that he had finally tracked Mick down. And Mick had said, 'Over my dead body will I ever give that song back.' And now he has ruined Fleetwood Mac's future."

This is the Nicky Horne one, right? I always thought that was the juiciest interview she ever gave, her voice is so cold in it.

skcin

09-29-2004, 01:31 PM

AliP

09-29-2004, 02:26 PM

Thanks, I already know all of this. :xoxo:

I just have a feeling it really started before the "press reports" started talking about it. Just because she didn't start to compile Timespace until Dec. 1990 doesn't mean she hadn't been thinking of what songs to put on it before that time.
It also doesn't mean she hadn't already approached Mick about it - maybe he hadn't actually said no yet, maybe he was jerking her around. :lol:

Just speculation, I know. But it is possible, IMO.

Paula

Just a thought, but maybe it was directed at Lindsey. After all, Silver Springs was about Lindsey. Maybe she was still flamin' over him leaving and didn't think of this hidden jab until that tour.

EveryHour

09-29-2004, 06:33 PM

This is the Nicky Horne one, right? I always thought that was the juiciest interview she ever gave, her voice is so cold in it.

That interview is so great. She is especially open about everything...Robin and her family, Joe Walsh, Mick and Silver Springs, etc.

EveryHour

09-29-2004, 06:35 PM

Exactly. Plus, do we REALLY know when the fight over SS started? We know when it became more public, but who knows how long it had been going on behind the scenes. :shrug:

Paula

My feelings exactly. Perhaps it had been brought up long before it exploded. Maybe it didn't get truly ugly until Stevie's call to Dennis. Maybe up until that point Stevie didn't think that Mick would really not let her have it.

amber

09-29-2004, 06:56 PM

That interview is so great. She is especially open about everything...Robin and her family, Joe Walsh, Mick and Silver Springs, etc.
Is this interview gettable anywhere? I want to get it!

AliP

09-29-2004, 07:15 PM

Is this interview gettable anywhere? I want to get it!

Yes, lots of people have it for trade. I have most of the quotes from the interview (the interesting ones anyway) on my site. (see link below :))

amber

09-29-2004, 07:43 PM

Yes, lots of people have it for trade. I have most of the quotes from the interview (the interesting ones anyway) on my site. (see link below :))
Thank you, dear. I shall go, forthwith! Actually, the problem with so many people wanting to trade, is that i don't have anything to trade. That's why, though ledgies have said that people shouldn't sell stuff, I like people who sell stuff, because that involves money, which is possible for me to have :p
Amber

amber

09-29-2004, 07:49 PM

Yes, lots of people have it for trade. I have most of the quotes from the interview (the interesting ones anyway) on my site. (see link below :))
ok, I just went there, to interviews, and i didn't know which one, and are those all there only for trade, and if not, where are the downloadable clips? ooooo, I really like your page, i can't believe i've never seen it before. But i was tricked, i read the part where you said, to see how I got lindsey's autograph on the picture where he kisses me, click here...I didn't see any picture of Lindsey kissing you. Also, congrats on making through (almost) law school. I am studying to be a paralegal, cause i am one of those lazy people you said you don't like. :D Although, it's more like I can't concentrate on just one boring thing for millions of years. I am not a hard worker, all the time. Unless the work involves playing sports, acting, singing, or reading. But anyways, are you going to be an environmental lawyer? I thought maybe yes, cause of your love of animals (which i share). That's why i decided to be a paralegal, specifically to work for an environmental law firm...anywhoo...nice to meet you!
Amber
ok, i just saw the "after Lindsey kisses you" shot! man, you are lucky puppy!

AliP

09-29-2004, 09:29 PM

I am studying to be a paralegal, cause i am one of those lazy people you said you don't like. :D

LOL!! Actually, being a paralegal is very hard work. Paralegals probably work harder than most lawyers! :) Anyhoo, the interview clips are in written form. Go here: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/2025/FMquotes

Then click on Stevie solo quotes.......then look for the quotes from the Nicky Horne 1991 interviews. I typed up pretty much everything from that interview.

Also, I do 2/1 trades so that way you don't have to pay for things, then you can build up your collection enough where you can start doing 1/1 trades.

And to answer your question, no, I'm not going to be an enviornmental lawyer. But I do love animals!

amber

09-29-2004, 09:40 PM

LOL!! Actually, being a paralegal is very hard work. Paralegals probably work harder than most lawyers! :) Anyhoo, the interview clips are in written form. Go here: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/2025/FMquotes

Then click on Stevie solo quotes.......then look for the quotes from the Nicky Horne 1991 interviews. I typed up pretty much everything from that interview.

Also, I do 2/1 trades so that way you don't have to pay for things, then you can build up your collection enough where you can start doing 1/1 trades.

And to answer your question, no, I'm not going to be an enviornmental lawyer. But I do love animals!
kay, i'm gonna try it. Thank you! Yeah, I won't mind doing all the work at work, I just don't want to be in school for that one thing for so long. The people that I talk to who're in law school, like, never stop studying and doing things for school, and it's just a lot of concentration to one area! Good for you!
Amber