Who are you going to vote for?

[Jason T.]

If the election were held today, who would you vote for? No need for a political debate, let's just see who Fleetwood Mac fans think should win this November. :cool:

[dissention]

I haven't decided between Kerry or the Green Party candidate (not Nader!). At this current moment, I'm leaning towards Kerry, so I cast my vote for him in the poll. ;)

[DeeGeMe]

Hey Diss--do you live in a swing state?

[estranged4life]

I will vote for South Park's "Kenny McCormick", Gotta like a candidate that can die daily (Except for that one time during Christmas) and be up and "at 'em" the next, To only die once more :lol:

Brian "Oh my God, they voted for Kenny...You bastards" j.

ps-In all honesty, I am STILL undecided between Shrub & Franken-Kerry

[dissention]

Hey Diss--do you live in a swing state?

Hell no! :laugh: If I lived in a swing state, my vote wouuld automatically go to Kerry! I live in MA...obviously a blue state. :lol:

[DrummerDeanna]

LOL...since I've now entered my career as a journalist - I am not supposed to divulge that information....:D

In the last week though- I saw both Kerry and Bush speak at a convention - and had to cover their speeches....very interesting experience...

Anyway, it sort of sucks - I'm opinionated and such - but I also strive to be a good journalist...therefore I can't talk about my personal political views hehe...at least that's what my mentors have said :nod:

[GypsySorcerer]

I voted for none of the above. I'm voting for Badnarik, the Libertarian candidate. I'm registered in Illinois, which will go to Kerry undoubtedly. He doesn't need my vote to win there, Bush doesn't need my vote to lose there, so I figured I'd make a statement.

[Jason T.]

I voted for none of the above. I'm voting for Badnarik, the Libertarian candidate. I'm registered in Illinois, which will go to Kerry undoubtedly. He doesn't need my vote to win there, Bush doesn't need my vote to lose there, so I figured I'd make a statement.
That's cool! :thumbsup:

[Villavic]

But I don't vote either..

If I would, I wouldn't vote for Bush. I don't like him. I think he really damaged the US image in other countries.

By the way, when are the elections?

[Josh2003]

Dissention-

LOVE the MAMA T pic in your sig line.

Do you by any chance have (or knkow where I can find) her quote regarding "Having a mom in the white house"?

[dissention]

Dissention-

LOVE the MAMA T pic in your sig line.

Do you by any chance have (or knkow where I can find) her quote regarding "Having a mom in the white house"?

Yup, here it is:

"If nothing else, you will have a mom in the White House. You can call your Mama T anytime."

:thumbsup:

I love her. And I almost died when she praised gays, lesbians, and transexuals for "pushing the envelope." Such a class act. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

I live in Colorado and I'll be voting for Kerry. :)

[dissention]

Here are some more great quotes from Mama T:

“Keep your head on, listen to your heart, remember who you are. Remember all the things you're taught.”

“I always taught my children they had to treat people properly or I would smack them.” :lol: (I love this one)

“I’m not perfect, Lord knows. And I have opinions and so do other people. The only thing one hopes is that when people criticize you, they’ve really thought about it. And I would hope that my friends and those that are not my friends, but would think about whatever, would criticize me with that in mind, which is to make it be better. That’s what criticism should be for. Other kinds of criticism, you know, it’s a free country.”

"It's time that we who clean up should have a say in how the dirt should be made."

[Jason T.]

Here are some more great quotes from Mama T:

“Keep your head on, listen to your heart, remember who you are. Remember all the things you're taught.”

“I always taught my children they had to treat people properly or I would smack them.” :lol: (I love this one)

“I’m not perfect, Lord knows. And I have opinions and so do other people. The only thing one hopes is that when people criticize you, they’ve really thought about it. And I would hope that my friends and those that are not my friends, but would think about whatever, would criticize me with that in mind, which is to make it be better. That’s what criticism should be for. Other kinds of criticism, you know, it’s a free country.”

"It's time that we who clean up should have a say in how the dirt should be made."

Teresa is so awesome! I almost want John Kerry to win so we can have a First Lady like her in office. Granted, I'd rather have her running, but she can't because she wasn't born in the US (have I mentioned how stupid of a rule that is?).

Anyway -- gotta love Mama T! :nod:

[GateandGarden]

love her. And I almost died when she praised gays, lesbians, and transexuals for "pushing the envelope." Such a class act. :nod: That is cool. I wish her husband would be more supportive, though.
:mad: :distress:

Hillary

[dissention]

I see the one person who voted Bush didn't expound on why. Shocking. :lol:

[CarneVaca]

Granted, I'd rather have her running, but she can't because she wasn't born in the US (have I mentioned how stupid of a rule that is?).

It is stupid. And it's the only thing preventing me from throwing my hat in because god knows I have all the answers.

Then again, if the Germany had had such a rule in the 1930s, Hitler wouldn't have risen.

[strandinthewind]

It is stupid. And it's the only thing preventing me from throwing my hat in because god knows I have all the answers.

Then again, if the Germany had had such a rule in the 1930s, Hitler wouldn't have risen.

and then there is Arnold!!!!!!! :cool:

[Jason T.]

That is cool. I wish her husband would be more supportive, though.
:mad: :distress:

Hillary
Yeah, once I heard that both Kerry and Edwards were both opposed to same-sex marriage, he lost <i>some</i> of my respect. The way I look at it is I'd rather have a President who will work to some form of 'equality,' than one who only mentions the gay community when trying to harvest conservative hate for political gain.

Have I mentioned how much I dislike Republicans? :mad: LOL! :cool:

[Jason T.]

and then there is Arnold!!!!!!! :cool:
LOL! I think we'll stick with the rule. :thumbsup:

But seriously, this country was founded by people who came here from other countries (and completely wiped out the original occupants...I'll shut up about that now). It just doesn't make sense why only natural-born citizens can rule a country that is "open" -- and I use that term loosely -- to everyone. Especially when there are such awesome people out there like Teresa. :D

[Jason T.]

I see the one person who voted Bush didn't expound on why. Shocking. :lol:
I'm sorry, I mis-clicked. LMAO -- j/k. Whoever <i>did</i> vote for Bush should at least do it with pride...not many people vote for an idiot again after seeing the damage he's done in four years! :thumbsup: ;)

[strandinthewind]

LOL! I think we'll stick with the rule. :thumbsup:

But seriously, this country was founded by people who came here from other countries (and completely wiped out the original occupants...I'll shut up about that now). It just doesn't make sense why only natural-born citizens can rule a country that is "open" -- and I use that term loosely -- to everyone. Especially when there are such awesome people out there like Teresa. :D


See Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

I am fairly certain one of the reasons it was put into the Const. in the first place was so that the King of England could not send someone here and have them elected President. Remember, not everyone living in America was for the Revolution. I think the natural born restriction is quaint, but a little antiquated. Having said that, there is zero chance it will ever be erradicated, esp. not when we have gays trying to marry :rolleyes:

[GateandGarden]

Yeah, once I heard that both Kerry and Edwards were both opposed to same-sex marriage, he lost <i>some</i> of my respect. The way I look at it is I'd rather have a President who will work to some form of 'equality,' than one who only mentions the gay community when trying to harvest conservative hate for political gain.

Have I mentioned how much I dislike Republicans? :mad: LOL! :cool:Yeah, I agree with you. This is the first election I get to vote in, and I feel like I need to vote. I can't stand the thought of not voting, and I don't want to vote for someone who won't win. So, I must choose between the two, and then the choice is quite obvious for me. I like how you put "equality" in quotes there, since I have to say that it's really this pseudo-equality with Kerry. But it's better than nothing at all.

Hillary

[Jason T.]

Yeah, I agree with you. This is the first election I get to vote in, and I feel like I need to vote. I can't stand the thought of not voting, and I don't want to vote for someone who won't win. So, I must choose between the two, and then the choice is quite obvious for me. I like how you put "equality" in quotes there, since I have to say that it's really this pseudo-equality with Kerry. But it's better than nothing at all.

Hillary
Plus, Kerry isn't <i>that</i> bad of a guy. ;)

I actually won't get to vote in this election, because I don't turn 18 until December...nevertheless this election has sparked my interest. :D

[Jason T.]

See Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

I am fairly certain one of the reasons it was put into the Const. in the first place was so that the King of England could not send someone here and have them elected President. Remember, not everyone living in America was for the Revolution. I think the natural born restriction is quaint, but a little antiquated. Having said that, there is zero chance it will ever be erradicated, esp. not when we have gays trying to marry :rolleyes:
I guess I can see the purpose for it 'back in the day...but I don't think it is needed right now. I mean, I doubt Arnold or Teresa are undercover English spies determined to overthrow our government. Well, I'm not too sure about Arnold...lol, j/k. :laugh:

[jwd]

dissention:

I see the one person who voted Bush didn't expound on why. Shocking.

UPDATE: There's five now!

Ummmmmm, because he's NOT John Kerry! :lol:

[Jason T.]

UPDATE: There's five now!

Ummmmmm, because he's NOT John Kerry! :lol:
That's the same reason I <i>didn't</i> vote for him!!! LOL! Nice to know all opinions are represented here... ;)

[jwd]

Jason T.

That's the same reason I didn't vote for him!!! LOL! Nice to know all opinions are represented here...

Thanks for making me feel so welcome, except for that disparaging Republican remark. :) :wavey:

[Jason T.]

Thanks for making me feel so welcome, except for that disparaging Republican remark. :) :wavey:
I can't help it sometimes. LOL! I live in Texas. :wavey: :laugh:

In the end we all know what IS important. It isn't politics or ideals. It's Fleetwood Mac...lol! :angel:

[GateandGarden]

I can't help it sometimes. LOL! I live in Texas. :wavey: :laugh:Yeah, same goes for Louisiana. There are so many things I'm just so tired of hearing. I feel compelled to make generalizations sometimes. Okay, lots of times.

In the end we all know what IS important. It isn't politics or ideals. It's Fleetwood Mac...lol!Safe answer. ;)

Hillary

[Johnny Stew]

Ummmmmm, because he's NOT John Kerry! :lol:

What a ringing endorsement! :laugh: But then, I understand how hard it is to come up with some truly valid reason to vote for Bush. ;) :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

What a ringing endorsement! :laugh: But then, I understand how hard it is to come up with some truly valid reason to vote for Bush. ;) :laugh:
Well, you can't ignore the fact that so many are voting for Kerry solely because he's not Bush. It definitely goes both ways. Sometimes, when I'm feeling particularly cynical, I think they're both just evil. Kerry's just less evil. And sometimes I kind of like Kerry, but I don't know why. It seems that he has yet to promise to do something that satisfies me. I don't know; I've switched to rambling mode so I'll just stop.

Hillary

[dissention]

I feel compelled to make generalizations sometimes. Okay, lots of times.

I think the reason people make sweeping generalizations about the Republican party is because of the people they elect and choose to represent them, plus the people they embrace like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. When one of them is challenged, they turn to Jesus or 9/11. Pretty sad.

Look at the track record of the Republicans: Dubya, Bush #1, Nixon, Reagan, the list goes on. The only decent Republican president was Gerald Ford and they chose not to re-elect him. Let's not even get into senators and congressmen. Any party that would endorse the likes of Alan Keyes, Rick Santorum, Bill Frist, and The Gropefueher of California is bound to be a ****ty party. BUT - say any of that to a Republican and what do they do? They bring up Clinton. Rather pathetic. We could always bring up their daliances with little boys and other assorted "deviant" activities, but we don't.

Then you have the moderate Republicans who exclaim "The extremists don't speak for all of us," but what they don't realize is that they do. Moderate Republicans who vote Bush are complicit and putting an extremist in the White House. Moderates who vote Santorum or Keyes are allowing extremists to shape this country to suit their views. Most Republicans I've met will NEVER cross party lines and vote for a candidate who is not a Republican. Even I've crossed Democratic party lines and voted for other candidates and I'm about as extreme as one can get.

My problem is that a lot of Republicans don't look at everything that their precious leaders are doing in their name. They love to espouse Bush love without knowing his record, then the minute you bring his record up, you're a "Bush hater." It's ludicrous. It's as if they feel you cannot question the man and his policies (even though they would be merciless in their attacks if it was a Democrat in the White House) or else you're a hater. I'm not the best exampple of an average Democrat or liberal who doesn't hate the man, just his policies. I truly despise him and make no bones about it. However, what the right-wingers do, and I've seen it on this board, is they take people like me or Carne or Gldstwmn and try to make it as if we are representative of the Democratic party. They know it's utter ****, but they do it anyways. They take extreme views and pass off the lie that thsoe extreme views are represntative of the Democratic party, therefore it's an evil thing to vote for the Democratic candidate. But, and this is a fact, to make those same generalizations about the Republican party is blasphemy in their eyes. Only they can be the truly vicious ones and get away with it. ;)

Look at the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth (Lies, more like) controversy. There is not a single truth to any of the things they've said, yet Republicans are embracing them as if they are speaking the word of god. They cried foul over legitimate questions about Bush's military record, but now they're leading the attack on Kerry's exemplary war record. It's not only blasphemous, it's treasonous and unpatriotic. But it's okay with them because they have no shame. You can say what you want about the Democrats, but they NEVER do anything even remotely vicious like that.

My problem with Republicans lies not only in their lying ways, but their contempt for anyone who isn't a conservative. We're all sinners and are going to hell, in their eyes. They condemn gay people and say they're sinning or violating gods law, then turn around with a ludicrous statement like "I don't hate you, just your actions." Gimme a break. If they were people of god, theyd know that the bible clearly states that they have NO RIGHT to judge another person. Yet they do it anyways and say it's because they're god-fearing people.

They condemn liberals and call us communists, socialists, and other assorted whack labels. They say we're trying to corrupt the country and take it over. Why should I have respect for anyone who associates themselves with the kind of party that says these things? They've even gone so far as to say that gays were the cause of Nazi-ism! This isn't a party that desreves respect, it's a party that deserves extermination, starting with Shrub.

[jwd]

GateandGarden:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
What a ringing endorsement! But then, I understand how hard it is to come up with some truly valid reason to vote for Bush.

Well, you can't ignore the fact that so many are voting for Kerry solely because he's not Bush. It definitely goes both ways.


:nod: :laugh:

Exactly. That was my whole point for making that comment. TYVM Hillary!

[strandinthewind]

This isn't a party that desreves respect, it's a party that deserves extermination, starting with Shrub.

NOT TO MENTION ( :laugh: ) they for many years now have hijacked the true meaning of the word conservative (smaller govt., less taxes, etc.) and instead do just the opposite. For example, the govt. is now the largest it has ever been and it is spending more than it ever has. The govt. also wants to control what two consenting adults do with their personal lives and they want everyone that is a fundamentalist Christian to have the controlling say and more rights swayed their way. If you are not a fundamentalist Christian, which mind you no law says you have to be, then they think it is okay for you to live here, just do not expect any representation, respect, or rights.


That is why I am not coting for W. He is the antithesis of what was traditionally called a conservative. Instead, he and the people who put him in power want a theocracy. :shrug:

[Jason T.]

NOT TO MENTION ( :laugh: ) they for many years now have hijacked the true meaning of the word conservative (smaller govt., less taxes, etc.) and instead do just the opposite. For example, the govt. is now the largest it has ever been and it is spending more than it ever has. The govt. also wants to control what two consenting adults do with their personal lives and they want everyone that is a fundamentalist Christian to have the controlling say and more rights swayed their way. If you are not a fundamentalist Christian, which mind you no law says you have to be, then they think it is okay for you to live here, just do not expect any representation, respect, or rights.


That is why I am not voting for W. He is the antithesis of what was traditionally called a conservative. Instead, he and the people who put him in power want a theocracy. :shrug:
Yeah, people I know to be 'true' conservatives, would never agree with half the stuff that Dubya does or says -- but for some reason they're not standing up for a change. Is part of being conservative letting people screw you over? :distress:

[dissention]

NOT TO MENTION ( :laugh: )

Honestly, Jason, how can someone add to that rant I posted above? :lol:

they for many years now have hijacked the true meaning of the word conservative (smaller govt., less taxes, etc.) and instead do just the opposite. For example, the govt. is now the largest it has ever been and it is spending more than it ever has. The govt. also wants to control what two consenting adults do with their personal lives and they want everyone that is a fundamentalist Christian to have the controlling say and more rights swayed their way. If you are not a fundamentalist Christian, which mind you no law says you have to be, then they think it is okay for you to live here, just do not expect any representation, respect, or rights.

Exactly. This administration is NOT fiscally conservative. And it was always my understanding that true conservatives are for state rights, not federal intrusion.

That is why I am not coting for W. He is the antithesis of what was traditionally called a conservative. Instead, he and the people who put him in power want a theocracy. :shrug:

I'm not voting for Dubya because he's a murderer, a thief, a religious extremist, and a right-wing whack job. :laugh: I'm still waiting for him to do something about Sudan...

[strandinthewind]

. . . Is part of being conservative letting people screw you over? :distress:

Here I go again :laugh: :rolleyes: - as Dissention noted, the D party accepts (mostly by default) the liberal title, yet it hardly represents the true and traditional def. of that word. So, the same could be said for true liberals :shrug:

Now - Back to the regularly scheduled programming :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

I'm still waiting for him to do something about Sudan...

Do they have oil :laugh: :rolleyes:

Can Tricky Dickie make money there :laugh: :rolleyes:

Can we appease the Saudis by going there :laugh: :rolleyes:

[dissention]

Do they have oil :laugh: :rolleyes:

Can Tricky Dickie make money there :laugh: :rolleyes:

Can we appease the Saudis by going there :laugh: :rolleyes:

No, no, and no. :wavey: I find it ironic that the reasoning Bush is using for going to war was to save the Iraqi people...yet he is doing nothing to stop the genocide in Sudan.

You can bet your ass that when I go to NYC to protest at the end of this month, I'll be screaming about Sudan. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

You can bet your ass that when I go to NYC to protest at the end of this month, I'll be screaming about Sudan. :laugh:

Good Lord - I may have to fly in just to see this!!!!! Actually, I will be flying over on my way to Europe!!!!!!! I'll wave from 20,000 feet :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Here is some info:

http://www.gopconvention.com/

[dissention]

Good Lord - I may have to fly in just to see this!!!!! Actually, I will be flying over on my way to Europe!!!!!!! I'll wave from 20,000 feet :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Here is some info:

http://www.gopconvention.com/

:laugh:

I'm planning on taking a Peter Pan bus to New York, hopefully there won't be a bomb on it. If I die, it was all Rove. :xoxo:

[GateandGarden]

Honestly, Jason, how can someone add to that rant I posted above? :lol: I'm gonna have to agree, since I can think of little to add to that rant. And I'd like to be able to understand the other person's point of view (the average Bush supporter) but I truly can't.
Especially when I ask people why Bush is better than Kerry and they say "Because Kerry flip-flops and Bush stands firms in what he believes in." How is that okay if what he believes in is evil?

Actually, I do want to bring something else up. The Log Cabin Republicans. I've been interested in this group, since they prove (or did at one point, perhaps) that one can be something of a moderate. I found it interesting that they didn't consider "gay Repulican" to be an oxymoron. But then they were turned away at the GOP convention. The Republicans want nothing to do with their ideals. The Democrats invited them over, and they declined. I think this supports what dissention was saying--that one cannot be a moderate Republican these days.

And geez, did ya have to mention Santorum, Frist, Falwell, Robertson, and others in the same sentence. I'm trying to hold down my breakfast here. :rolleyes:

Hillary

[strandinthewind]

I think the Log Cabin Republicans provide a good service. I think their thought of working for change within the Republican party is noble and their seemingly endless up hill battle to promote change to promote the traditional definition of conservative values (less govt. less taxes, individual liberty, etc.)is admirable especially considering they are almost always defeated. And, they have, certainly with the help of others, effectuated change, albeit slight (hey - Rome was not built in a day :laugh: ) within the Republican party. Here is their statement of what they believe http://www.logcabin.org/logcabin/about.html

I think it is great that there are those in the Republican party that are constantly working for change in a party that does not really want them there :shrug:

But, others will disagree, etc.

[GypsySorcerer]

Actually, I do want to bring something else up. The Log Cabin Republicans. I've been interested in this group, since they prove (or did at one point, perhaps) that one can be something of a moderate. I found it interesting that they didn't consider "gay Repulican" to be an oxymoron. But then they were turned away at the GOP convention. The Republicans want nothing to do with their ideals. The Democrats invited them over, and they declined. I think this supports what dissention was saying--that one cannot be a moderate Republican these days. Hillary

I'm currently on hiatus from the Republicans right now, but I stay informed on the LCR's doings and activitis, as well as the Republican Majority for Choice (a pro-choice Republican group.) I have even donated to the LCR's campaign. I think what they're doing is good. It was incredibly *****ty of the GOP to not allow the LCRs at their convention. It is my understanding that the Log Cabin Republicans are not endorsing Kerry, but they are not campaigning for Bush. They appear to be putting their efforts into defeating the Federal Marriage Amendment, which I think is great.

I would say that the Republican Party is evenly divided between moderates and conservatives. (Though I readily admit that they are moving more and more to the right.) I think that the conservaties just make more noise. Extremes on both sides always are the most passionate about their beliefs.

[GypsySorcerer]

I think the Log Cabin Republicans provide a good service. I think their thought of working for change within the Republican party is noble and their seemingly endless up hill battle to promote change to promote the traditional definition of conservative values (less govt. less taxes, individual liberty, etc.)is admirable especially considering they are almost always defeated. And, they have, certainly with the help of others, effectuated change, albeit slight (hey - Rome was not built in a day :laugh: ) within the Republican party. Here is their statement of what they believe http://www.logcabin.org/logcabin/about.html

I think it is great that there are those in the Republican party that are constantly working for change in a party that does not really want them there :shrug:

But, others will disagree, etc.

I agree, for one. :wavey: I am down on the Republicans and am disgusted by what they're doing. But I do support what the LCRs promote....that a "Big Tent" inclusive Party would much better serve Americans.

[GateandGarden]

I think the Log Cabin Republicans provide a good service. I think their thought of working for change within the Republican party is noble and their seemingly endless up hill battle to promote change to promote the traditional definition of conservative values (less govt. less taxes, individual liberty, etc.)is admirable especially considering they are almost always defeated. And, they have, certainly with the help of others, effectuated change, albeit slight (hey - Rome was not built in a day :laugh: ) within the Republican party. Here is their statement of what they believe http://www.logcabin.org/logcabin/about.html

I think it is great that there are those in the Republican party that are constantly working for change in a party that does not really want them there :shrug:

But, others will disagree, etc.
Maybe you're right and it is possible to be a moderate, but "Rome wasn't built in a day." I guess it's just going to take these guys a lot of work and a long time to get their message across.

Hillary

[dissention]

And geez, did ya have to mention Santorum, Frist, Falwell, Robertson, and others in the same sentence. I'm trying to hold down my breakfast here. :rolleyes:

Hillary

Hey, I could've thrown in Marilyn Musgrave for good measure. Consider yourself lucky! :laugh: :xoxo:

[dissention]

I think the Log Cabin Republicans provide a good service. I think their thought of working for change within the Republican party is noble and their seemingly endless up hill battle to promote change to promote the traditional definition of conservative values (less govt. less taxes, individual liberty, etc.)is admirable especially considering they are almost always defeated. And, they have, certainly with the help of others, effectuated change, albeit slight (hey - Rome was not built in a day :laugh: ) within the Republican party. Here is their statement of what they believe http://www.logcabin.org/logcabin/about.html

I think it is great that there are those in the Republican party that are constantly working for change in a party that does not really want them there :shrug:

But, others will disagree, etc.

If it wasn't for Bob Dole returning gay donations to his campaign, there really would be no Log Cabin Republicans, which I find rather funny. :laugh:

As terrible as it sounds, the reality of LCRs is that they are a non-entity. It's a real dilemma for a Republican to accept their support and it's a real dilemma for them to support the Republicans who do run for office because 95% of them disagree with the LCRs on key gay right issues. Just look at what Bush said about them when he ran in 2000. Look at what happened with their meeting with McCain. For the past eight years, the LCRs have supported Democratic presidential candidates. They didn't support Dole and they didn't support Shrub. :shrug:

So, while I agree that it is great to see a part of a party working for change within the party, as of now, the LCRs have no real bearing in anything.

[dissention]

Maybe you're right and it is possible to be a moderate, but "Rome wasn't built in a day." I guess it's just going to take these guys a lot of work and a long time to get their message across.

Hillary

It is possible to be a moderate, sure. But it is not possible to be a moderate Republican these days and have your voice heard and that's the dilemma of the LCRs.

[GypsySorcerer]

Just received this email from them:

LOG CABIN REPRESENTS GOP'S FUTURE AT NYC CONVENTION

Log Cabin Republicans will have a strong presence at the
upcoming Republican National Convention in New York City. We
represent a powerful voice for freedom and fairness. This has
been a challenging year as we have been forced to take on some
of our Party leaders to prevent them from writing discrimination
into our nation's Constitution. Log Cabin will be in New York,
making it clear to the GOP that we will continue standing up for
what is right. We will continue pushing for inclusion. We will
continue working to defend our Constitution.

The highlight of our New York plans will be a special
celebration we are calling "The Big Tent Event." New York City
Mayor Michael Bloomberg will host this reception as Log Cabin
honors some of our Republican allies from across America.
***New York Governor George Pataki
***California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
***Former Pennsylvania Governor Mark Schweiker
***Former Massachusetts Governor Jane Swift
***Former Massachusetts Governor William Weld
***Former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman

"The Big Tent Event" will be held at the Bryant Park Grill, 25
West 40th Street, on Sunday August 29th, 2004 from 1-3pm. Many
Congressional allies, elected officials and party leaders will
attend.

Log Cabin also will take part in an event set for Friday August
27th. The New York Times is hosting a panel discussion entitled,
"Voices of the Gay and Lesbian Vote." It will be held from
6:30-8:00pm at The Great Hall of the Cooper Union (7 East 7th
Street). Log Cabin Executive Director Patrick Guerriero will be
a panelist along with Washington, DC City Councilman David
Catania, Gill Foundation Executive Director Rodger McFarlane,
HRC Political Director Winnie Stachelberg and Chrissy Gephardt.
The New York Times is selling tickets to this event for $25
each. You can get them at the door or purchase them in advance
http://www.logcabin.org/ct/b1LIrXn1Q1Hn/New-York-Times-tickets/

Log Cabin's National Board will be meeting on Saturday August
28th for its regular quarterly board meeting. Also on Saturday
the 28th, Log Cabin chapter presidents and chapter leaders from
around the nation will take part in the first annual Chapter
Leadership Retreat. For more information about this event,
please contact Log Cabin's new National Field Director, Jeff
Cook ([email protected]).

When the gavel falls on the Republican National Convention on
Monday August 30th, Log Cabin will have many members and allies
serving as delegates and alternates. The Republican Party is
highlighting speakers who represent the future of our party.
Almost all of the major primetime speakers represent the
strongest voices of inclusion and fairness in the GOP. Mayor
Bloomberg, Governor Pataki, Senator John McCain, Governor
Schwarzenegger and Mayor Rudy Giuliani all have high profile
primetime speaking roles. All of these Republican leaders oppose
the anti-family Federal Marriage Amendment. Log Cabin will have
a strong presence in New York reminding Republican delegates and
Party leaders that these speakers represent the party's future.
Inclusion Wins!

[dissention]

The highlight of our New York plans will be a special
celebration we are calling "The Big Tent Event." New York City
Mayor Michael Bloomberg will host this reception as Log Cabin
honors some of our Republican allies from across America.

***Former Massachusetts Governor Jane Swift

The biggest asshole I've ever met in my life. Period. She is indescribable.

[GretaRhiannon]

I'm not 18 yet, but if I could vote, I wouldnt heh, Bush and Kerry are both idiots

But I really try to stay away from politics lol.

[GypsySorcerer]

The biggest asshole I've ever met in my life. Period. She is indescribable.

Worse than Romney? :lol:

I don't know anything about her. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Hey, I could've thrown in Marilyn Musgrave for good measure. Consider yourself lucky! :laugh: :xoxo:

She'll be gone soon. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

I'm not 18 yet, but if I could vote, I wouldnt heh, Bush and Kerry are both idiots

But I really try to stay away from politics lol.

It shows. :(

[dissention]

Worse than Romney? :lol:

I don't know anything about her. :shrug:

Just as bad as Romney, my dear. :nod:

She got in big trouble when she was Lt. Governor because she forced her assistant to babysit her kids and told her that if she didn't, she'd be fired. The state forced her to apologize to her assistant and to pay her for it. She was a real trip. I met her once and she was a real sow. She only became governor when Celluci was appointed Ambass. to Canada by Shrub and she knew not to run for election because she'd lose.

[strandinthewind]

She'll be gone soon. :nod:

I hate few few people, but she comes real close. The best thing I can think to call her is an ignorant, self serving, self righteous, holier than thou, rhymes with a brand of ketchup :mad: And THAT is being nice :mad:

[dissention]

I'm not 18 yet, but if I could vote, I wouldnt heh, Bush and Kerry are both idiots

But I really try to stay away from politics lol.

Hopefully you do vote when you're of age. If not, you have no right to complain about thing sbeing done that you don't like! :nod:

[dissention]

She'll be gone soon. :nod:

God, I hope so. Was she out there trying to support animal acts yesterday? :laugh:

She's another indescribable one. For cripes sake, she chastized the NRA for compromising too often!

[marc402]

That is cool. I wish her husband would be more supportive, though.
:mad: :distress:

Hillary

I realy do not know kerry's stand on gay right isues but if his wife supports us
he can't be all bad and atleast he is a democrate
i don't want another 4 years of that .... well fill in the blanks want to keep the forum clean :p

[gldstwmn]

I hate few few people, but she comes real close. The best thing I can think to call her is an ignorant, self serving, self righteous, holier than thou, rhymes with a brand of ketchup :mad: And THAT is being nice :mad:

Stan Matsunaka looks strong against Marilyn. I'm blessed with Diana DeGette, who is running unopposed. :thumbsup:

[GateandGarden]

Just as bad as Romney, my dear. :nod:

She got in big trouble when she was Lt. Governor because she forced her assistant to babysit her kids and told her that if she didn't, she'd be fired. The state forced her to apologize to her assistant and to pay her for it. She was a real trip. I met her once and she was a real sow. She only became governor when Celluci was appointed Ambass. to Canada by Shrub and she knew not to run for election because she'd lose.Wow, I didn't know anything about her before now--sounds awful. And, and I love her chastising the NRA for compromising too much. Sounds like she's right up my alley.
:laugh: Y'all shouldn't be giving me more people to despise. "Your hate becomes you." I'm really starting to believe that. My hatred for Dubya is all-consuming at times. :distress:

Hillary

[GateandGarden]

I realy do not know kerry's stand on gay right isues but if his wife supports us
he can't be all bad and atleast he is a democrate
i don't want another 4 years of that .... well fill in the blanks want to keep the forum clean :p
Kerry and Edwards have both said that they will not support gay marriage. They support the states' right to decide, therefore they have no intention of intervening if a state wants to ban gay marriages. (And no doubt many will). Kerry seems to support equality in every way but this one. It's half-assed, to say the least.

By the way, I like your sig.

Hillary

[strandinthewind]

Kerry and Edwards have both said that they will not support gay marriage. They support the states' right to decide, therefore they have no intention of intervening if a state wants to ban gay marriages. (And no doubt many will). Kerry seems to support equality in every way but this one. It's half-assed, to say the least.

By the way, I like your sig.

Hillary

Gay Marriage is a political plum for all parties. I bet provately Kerry and Bush could care a less whether gay people marry. I think they are saying their schpeels because they know this completely irrelevant issue (HELLO WE HAVE A WAR GOING ON :shrug: ) encites both of their bases. Such is politics.

[GateandGarden]

Gay Marriage is a political plum for all parties. I bet provately Kerry and Bush could care a less whether gay people marry. I think they are saying their schpeels because they know this completely irrelevant issue (HELLO WE HAVE A WAR GOING ON :shrug: ) encites both of their bases. Such is politics.Maybe they don't really care. I've considered that, but then sometimes I think that Bush really does have an objection from a religious standpoint. It makes sense that someone like him would. And though it's ridiculous to make such decisions based on one's religious beliefs, I know that wouldn't stop him. I've also considered that Kerry might privately be for gay marriage, but he knows it would be political suicide for him to proclaim that.

Hillary

[The Tower]

I can't help it sometimes. LOL! I live in Texas. :wavey: :laugh:

Yeah, same goes for Louisiana. There are so many things I'm just so tired of hearing. I feel compelled to make generalizations sometimes. Okay, lots of times.

I know how you feel. You would think that living in the heart of West Hollywood, CA I would enjoy the most liberal of societies. HOWEVER--- I work for an evangelical christian-owned company. Of course, they aren't really allowed to preach/minister, but they DO offer a safe haven where evangelical whack-jobs can feel comfortable enough to speak their bigotry and intolerance openly without retribution. Yeah, I know, I know- why do I work there?? Eh, a job's, a job's, a job.... Besides there is a large minority of liberal minded, secular people there, so it's not all that bad.

My point is, when one is surrounded by all that stuff you just want to scream...

My problem with Republicans lies not only in their lying ways, but their contempt for anyone who isn't a conservative. We're all sinners and are going to hell, in their eyes. They condemn gay people and say they're sinning or violating gods law, then turn around with a ludicrous statement like "I don't hate you, just your actions." Gimme a break. If they were people of god, theyd know that the bible clearly states that they have NO RIGHT to judge another person. Yet they do it anyways and say it's because they're god-fearing people.

:xoxo: :xoxo: Your whole diatribe was delicious, but this part was my favorite!

Instead, he and the people who put him in power want a theocracy.

That's want those condescending mo-fo's want the bible-thumpers to believe. But I really think their main goal is to foster and continue the ever growing plutocracy. :distress:

I think the Log Cabin Republicans provide a good service. I think their thought of working for change within the Republican party is noble and their seemingly endless up hill battle to promote change to promote the traditional definition of conservative values (less govt. less taxes, individual liberty, etc.)is admirable especially considering they are almost always defeated.
But, others will disagree, etc.

Yeah, well....... I don't think it's really the time for my fellow fags and dykes to abandon the platform of social conscience just for the sake of the almighty dollar. And no matter what anyone says, Log Cabin republicans are really only about ONE thing- pro-business. All that other stuff is just an attempt to create a platform. It is all Mammon, and I think it's disgusting. But that's just me.

Kerry and Edwards have both said that they will not support gay marriage. They support the states' right to decide, therefore they have no intention of intervening if a state wants to ban gay marriages. (And no doubt many will). Kerry seems to support equality in every way but this one. It's half-assed, to say the least.

I'm not interested in getting married. I AM married for all intents and purposes. However, at least I know that Kerry has no interest in actually PROMOTING bigotry and discrimination against gays, wheras Dubya is the biggest monster to ever occupy the White House with regard to this issue. Social change on this level takes decades and decades of time to eventually come to fruition. I can handle baby steps. Gay marriage is an inevitability. Even if I don't get the right to (which I could care less about for me personally), at least those in the not too distant future will be able to date, court, go to proms, be accepted and be able to be a part of and enjoy all the ceremonies of "partnership life" that hets have had for years.

[Hawkeye]

plus the people they embrace like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

All of those people are saints compared to John Hagge I'm suprised no one's ever mentioned him. But I can't stand him. Yet I watch him almost everyday :laugh: I don't know it's the disgus factor or something. But the way he talks so superior to everyone, I just wish god would strike his fat ass down and just get him to heaven that much faster. Or if I had my way it wouldn't be heaven :laugh: On a related note, one of those evangelist guys I really happen to like is Jesse Duplantis. He's what's good about Christianity, while John Hagge is the scum of the freaking earth.

[Jason T.]

I know how you feel. You would think that living in the heart of West Hollywood, CA I would enjoy the most liberal of societies. HOWEVER--- I work for an evangelical christian-owned company. Of course, they aren't really allowed to preach/minister, but they DO offer a safe haven where evangelical whack-jobs can feel comfortable enough to speak their bigotry and intolerance openly without retribution. Yeah, I know, I know- why do I work there?? Eh, a job's, a job's, a job.... Besides there is a large minority of liberal minded, secular people there, so it's not all that bad.

My point is, when one is surrounded by all that stuff you just want to scream...
If anything it's good for the liberal-minded soul, you learn to tolerate in the intolerant. :thumbsup:

Texans are good people, just not *all* there sometimes. :thumbsup: Ignoring Bush, who is *never* there.

[The Tower]

If anything it's good for the liberal-minded soul, you learn to tolerate in the intolerant. :thumbsup:

It is very, VERY, VERY hard!! Although, I feel I am old enough and- I think I'm entitled to say it at this time in my life- wise enough to take a few steps back and take the higher road. I am very optimistic about the genuine kindness of humanity, so this evangelical/conservative wave shall ebb like all the other waves before it.

I saw Clinton on John Stewart the other night and I was on the verge of tears wishing that he was still President. My partner said, "Well, if you allowed that then Reagan would still be President", which was quite the touche, I might add.

Bollocks!!! Damn the torpedoes!!! I still miss Bill Clinton. Sigh.......

[strandinthewind]

It is very, VERY, VERY hard!! Although, I feel I am old enough and- I think I'm entitled to say it at this time in my life- wise enough to take a few steps back and take the higher road. I am very optimistic about the genuine kindness of humanity, so this evangelical/conservative wave shall ebb like all the other waves before it.

I saw Clinton on John Stewart the other night and I was on the verge of tears wishing that he was still President. My partner said, "Well, if you allowed that then Reagan would still be President", which was quite the touche, I might add.

Bollocks!!! Damn the torpedoes!!! I still miss Bill Clinton. Sigh.......

Everytime I see Clinton and his eloquent and smooth ways, I long for the days when he was in office.

[Hawkeye]

Definitely the president witht he taste in Music.

[The Tower]

Everytime I see Clinton and his eloquent and smooth ways, I long for the days when he was in office.

Jason, it's not necessarily the smooth (though the eloquent is at the top of my list, and sorely missing in today's political picture) ways that I miss...

I miss the fact that he is truly a good person.

****, if I had my REAL choice it would be Carter, Carter, CARTER!!! I looovvvee that man!!! The most underrated President, ever!

[GateandGarden]

It is very, VERY, VERY hard!! Although, I feel I am old enough and- I think I'm entitled to say it at this time in my life- wise enough to take a few steps back and take the higher road. I am very optimistic about the genuine kindness of humanity, so this evangelical/conservative wave shall ebb like all the other waves before it.
That is good to see. I hope one day I can learn to take the higher road and just roll with it. I'm not that mature yet. Plus, I just came out of the closet a year ago, so it's overwhelming. Even when I was a ridiculously repressed homosexual, I still supported gays and got upset when I encountered homophobes. But now everything is on a different level because it's all personal. It's another world. Being a minority sucks in a way that those who aren't a member of a minority can't understand, whether they truly aren't or they're trying with all their might not to be. (And I would know about the latter).

Hillary

[gldstwmn]

Jason, it's not necessarily the smooth (though the eloquent is at the top of my list, and sorely missing in today's political picture) ways that I miss...

I miss the fact that he is truly a good person.

****, if I had my REAL choice it would be Carter, Carter, CARTER!!! I looovvvee that man!!! The most underrated President, ever!

Can I get an "Amen"? :thumbsup:

[Merf]

Can I get an "Amen"? :thumbsup:

AMEN, sister! :lol:

[Jason T.]

Jason, it's not necessarily the smooth (though the eloquent is at the top of my list, and sorely missing in today's political picture) ways that I miss...

I miss the fact that he is truly a good person.

****, if I had my REAL choice it would be Carter, Carter, CARTER!!! I looovvvee that man!!! The most underrated President, ever!
I'll give more than an 'Amen,' I'll march in the middle isle and cry out to the Lord for it. I love Carter, it's so true about him being the most underrated President...a great man indeed! :D

[strandinthewind]

Jason, it's not necessarily the smooth (though the eloquent is at the top of my list, and sorely missing in today's political picture) ways that I miss...

I miss the fact that he is truly a good person.

I am unsure if repeatedly cheating on your wife, committing perjury, obstructing justice, repeatedly lying, and then wasting millions of tax dollars to cover up your dirty laundry makes one a good person :shrug: (bless his cheatin' and lying heart :laugh: )

But, "good" is a subjective term, etc., and while he certainly IMO was not good in that area, he was good if not great in so many other areas that those latter areas tend IMO to make up for the former in my book :cool: Again, I have repeatedly said although Clinton was a liar and a cheat, I'd have him back yesterday!!! :cool: :nod:

Thus, I chose smooth, which he undeniably is and was - just call him Teflon Man :laugh: I mean when he speaks regardles of whether it is on a talk show or to a room full of Nobel peace prize winners, he just sounds like the Rhodes scholar that he was and compared to today's President, Clinton sounds even better if that could be possible. I mean at the DNC, whose speech was the most convincing :shrug: AND - mind you Billy C. was toning it down in an attempt not to steal the show :laugh:

I think if Bill Clinton would run today, he would win by a landslide and rightly so IMO.

****, if I had my REAL choice it would be Carter, Carter, CARTER!!! I looovvvee that man!!! The most underrated President, ever!



I loved Carter even though he was mostly ineffective because of his altruism and that is sad to the part of me that tries not to be bludgeoned into a cynic :laugh: Interestingly, Carter has probably been more effective in world matters in his post-presidency work :shrug: No man is perfect, but I really liked Carter and his view of the world and still do.

[dissention]

I didn't agree with Clinton on quite a few things, but I do long for the days when he was in office. To go from a man who knew what he was doing to the bumbling ape we have in office now is just incomprehensible. This country is regressing.

As much as I like Clinton and Carter, I'd like some new blood. Along the lines of Braun and Kucinich. I know it must get tiring hearing me trumpet those two all the time, but I think they're the kind of people we really need in office on a national level. Right now, I'd even go with Gavin Newsom or Olympia Snowe. We just need to freshen it up and get rid of the imperialism.

[GypsySorcerer]

Right now, I'd even go with Gavin Newsom or Olympia Snowe. We just need to freshen it up and get rid of the imperialism.

I love Olympia. I'd love to see her on a Presidential ticket someday. :blob2:

[Josh2003]

I would love to see Olympia on a ticket, but it'll never happen. I think she's pissed off too many in her own party to stand a chance at getting any nomination.

I also don't think she'd want it.

But it sure would be nice :D