Wouldn't it be great if Stevie...

[diamondsnake]

...were working on a a new solo album right now and we would have a new record in time for Christmas? I need some new Stevie music- I'm gonna go crazy if I don't get to hear her raspy voice become even raspier! My favorite part of her new material. Who would have thought her TISL vocals could have gotten any more weathered? Her vocals on SYW were ten times smokier. Anyways, I'm getting off toipic! When does everone think we'll have a chance at new Stevie material (whether it be with FM or solo material)?

[GateandGarden]

I have a bad feeling that it won't be in time for Christmas. :( God, I would be so thrilled if it were. I too am a huge fan of those raspy vocals. They got me into her to begin with. What a turn on! Sometimes I do prefer them to her 70s and early to mid-80s vocals. I feel that I am truly in the minority. A friend of mine said she sounded like Bob Dylan on "Trouble in Shangri-La," and not in a good way. :shocked:

Hillary

[diamondsnake]

I have a bad feeling that it won't be in time for Christmas. :( God, I would be so thrilled if it were. I too am a huge fan of those raspy vocals. They got me into her to begin with. What a turn on! Sometimes I do prefer them to her 70s and early to mid-80s vocals. I feel that I am truly in the minority. A friend of mine said she sounded like Bob Dylan on "Trouble in Shangri-La," and not in a good way. :shocked:

Hillary

I gave my friend a ride home the other day and RTTG came on and they said "Is that Kermit the Frog?" I know I am in the minority with her raspy vocals too. I am in love with two eras of her voice. Her vocals from Buckingham Nicks-Rumours (the high parts on songs like Second Hand News and Frozen Love are to die for!) and her vocals from Trouble in Shangri La to the present (love the raspiness of songs like illume).

[diamondsnake]

I have a bad feeling that it won't be in time for Christmas.

Maybe Christmas 2014???

[Johnny Stew]

I'm projecting 2nd or 3rd quarter, 2005. :)

[GateandGarden]

Maybe Christmas 2014???
:laugh: I like Johnny Stew's projection much more.

Hillary

[Claudia]

Maybe late 2005. I love her vocals now too, although my favourites are from the 70s and early 80s.

[dissention]

I'm projecting 2nd or 3rd quarter, 2005. :)

:lol: No way! Try last quarter '07! And first quarter 2052 for a posthumous Lindsey Buckingham album. ;) :xoxo:

[Serrart]

If Stevie has already written most of the songs, found a producer and is going in the studio by October-November, the album could be ready for May-June, but I honestly doubt it. I'd say, if she will intensely work on the project, autumn 2005.

By the way, I'm very happy to have for December another Christmas song performed by Stevie (and Chris Isaak) :thumbsup:

Romy

[strandinthewind]

Her historical way of doing things suggests she will release a record in the Spring and tour in the Summer to support it :shrug:

As for her vocals - I get preturbed with her because she seems stuck in this habit of singing way down low or not using any of her range. She has range - we saw it on this last tour and the vocal on Smile at You (sheebus). Yet, she seems not to want to be, if you will, melodic. I like her when she is more melodic - she sounded great and melodic on At Last and on Ring Around Your Neck at the Divas. It was a breath of freash air for me. I also like her better with a havy piano influence. Hopefully, she will comeback to that a la Bella Donna. But, I like her stuff alot no matter what - so here's hoping she just releases something.

[no_spoken_word]

Her historical way of doing things suggests she will release a record in the Spring and tour in the Summer to support it :shrug:.

Exactly. And since Fleetwood Mac have toured in the summers of 2003 and 2004 I doubt she'll launch tour in 2005 at all. A lot of people would think "I just spend $150 to see them last year at the same place" etc., but you never know...

I think Lindsey will put out an album first.

Hey wouldn't it be cool if they both released albums at the same time? They could go on tour together and Lindsey could OPEN for Stevie!

[diamondsnake]

Hey wouldn't it be cool if they both released albums at the same time? They could go on tour together and Lindsey could OPEN for Stevie!

That's actually a really good idea because everyone that loves Stevie loves Lindsey!

But he might feel a little insulted about opening for Stevie.

[Hawkeye]

Well Mick has an album coming out September 28th of THIS year. So hopefully this gives Lindsey and Stevie some motivation to hury up.

[Kelly]

Maybe Stevie should open for Lindsey?!?!?

[dissention]

But he might feel a little insulted about opening for Stevie.

:lol: An opening act that's better than the headliner...priceless! :lol:

[no_spoken_word]

Maybe Stevie should open for Lindsey?!?!?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a solo touring act, isn't Stevie way more popular? I mean, Stevie can do amphitheatres and arenas but what kind of venues did Linds play on the Out Of The Cradle tour?

[dissention]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a solo touring act, isn't Stevie way more popular? I mean, Stevie can do amphitheatres and arenas but what kind of venues did Linds play on the Out Of The Cradle tour?

Stevie can't do arenas.

[Serrart]

Stevie can't do arenas.

Are they like European stadiums?

Romy

[dissention]

Are they like European stadiums?

Romy

Beats me, I've never been to a European stadium. :laugh: She can't do arenas because she wouldn't be able to fill them. The venue would lose money, just as she would lose money.

[Serrart]

Beats me, I've never been to a European stadium. :laugh: She can't do arenas because she wouldn't be able to fill them. The venue would lose money, just as she would lose money.

I imagined that's what you meant. I'll come to US for her tour (and Lindsey's if he will open for her ;)... just joking, I hope to be able to see him in concert too) and I'm glad she would do smaller venues.

Romy

[strandinthewind]

Are they like European stadiums?

Romy

It depends. Although some smaller amptitheaters (5,000 or so seats ) here in the states call themselves "arenas," the term arena usually implies a venue like Madison Square Gardens, which can seat ten times that. In Europe, there are such areans like in London where they played last time.

[no_spoken_word]

Stevie can't do arenas.

She has. Some of the venues booked for the TISL tour; Allstate Arena, Rose Garden Arena, Key Arena, Blue Cross Arena, TECO Arena. Those are probably all cities that don't have amphitheaters, and granted playing a gigantic place like Madison Square Garden might be a bit risky, but anyway my point is La Nicks' tours are "big time rock and roll", whereas Lindsey as a solo arist less so.

[strandinthewind]

She has. Some of the venues booked for the TISL tour; Allstate Arena, Rose Garden Arena, Key Arena, Blue Cross Arena, TECO Arena. Those are probably all cities that don't have amphitheaters, and granted playing a gigantic place like Madison Square Garden might be a bit risky, but anyway my point is La Nicks' tours are "big time rock and roll", whereas Lindsey as a solo arist less so.

Also, some arenas, usually the smaller ones, like I think these are (I could be wrong), open up only half of the seating for the shows, but I think those were the whole arenas, with maybe the top level not sold.

[dissention]

She has. Some of the venues booked for the TISL tour; Allstate Arena, Rose Garden Arena, Key Arena, Blue Cross Arena, TECO Arena. Those are probably all cities that don't have amphitheaters, and granted playing a gigantic place like Madison Square Garden might be a bit risky, but anyway my point is La Nicks' tours are "big time rock and roll", whereas Lindsey as a solo arist less so.

To call Stevie's tours "big time rock and roll" tours is hysterical to me. Check out her ticket sales and get back to me. ;) She's not that big of a draw when her solo shows come to town. When I said she can't do arena tours, I meant it. I'm sure she has to play a few because like you said, not all markets have ampits. But she can't do arena tours like, for example, Fleetwood Mac can. The first two legs of the SYW tour were all arenas for the most part. Stevie can't do that.

[bikerchic]

I gave my friend a ride home the other day and RTTG came on and they said "Is that Kermit the Frog?"

When my brother-in-law (who is a casual fan by the way) bought the SYW cd, he said that when he first played it in his cd player in his pick-up truck (he's a farmer), he was listening to it while he was working around the barn yard & when RTTG came on he ran into the barn because he thought a goat had gotten loose!!! Too funny!! :nod: :lol: :eek:

He's a huge Christine fan!! He's always teasing me about Stevie!

[amber]

To call Stevie's tours "big time rock and roll" tours is hysterical to me. Check out her ticket sales and get back to me. ;) She's not that big of a draw when her solo shows come to town. When I said she can't do arena tours, I meant it. I'm sure she has to play a few because like you said, not all markets have ampits. But she can't do arena tours like, for example, Fleetwood Mac can. The first two legs of the SYW tour were all arenas for the most part. Stevie can't do that.
Bigger than Lindsey, nyeah.
Amber

[dissention]

Bigger than Lindsey, nyeah.
Amber

Obviously, but that doesn't make them "big time rock and roll" tours. ;)

[Hawkeye]

Stevie has a tendency to "not care" if she sell well in a venue. Look at her Street Angel and Timespace show sales. She plays the big amphitheatres and arenasa because she for some reason likes them even if they sell 45-55 petcent it won't matter. I personally hope she'll do Arenas for her health.

[Johnny Stew]

I think it all depends on what one deems to be a "big time rock and roll" tour.
Stevie's shows certainly sell as well as, and in some cases better than, many of her peers... but they also most certainly don't sell as well as folks such as The Stones, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers, and acts like that.

But for a 50-something female pop/rock artist, who isn't known for big-production shows, and who possesses a very odd voice, and whose biggest commercial successes were 20 years ago, Stevie does quite all right for herself. :nod: :)

[amber]

I think it all depends on what one deems to be a "big time rock and roll" tour.
Stevie's shows certainly sell as well as, and in some cases better than, many of her peers... but they also most certainly don't sell as well as folks such as The Stones, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers, and acts like that.

But for a 50-something female pop/rock artist, who isn't known for big-production shows, and who possesses a very odd voice, and whose biggest commercial successes were 20 years ago, Stevie does quite all right for herself. :nod: :)
You said it, js!!! :nod: Damn, that girl's got it!!! :woohoo:
Amber

[Johnny Stew]

Amber... this is driving me crazy, and I know I should know, but....
who is that in your signature photo?!?!

[amber]

Amber... this is driving me crazy, and I know I should know, but....
who is that in your signature photo?!?!

:laugh: :laugh:

La Adjani (Isabelle Adjani, that is!)
Amber

[Johnny Stew]

:laugh: :laugh:

La Adjani (Isabelle Adjani, that is!)

Ah-HA! No wonder I recognized her, but couldn't remember her name! Wow... I haven't seen Isabelle since the remake of 'Nosferatu' (I've never seen 'Diabolique,' but I remember she was in that).

[amber]

Ah-HA! No wonder I recognized her, but couldn't remember her name! Wow... I haven't seen Isabelle since the remake of 'Nosferatu' (I've never seen 'Diabolique,' but I remember she was in that).
Well, as you can see, if you liked girls you would have made a definite point to see her more often, I would think...Most beautiful actress ever? Yes, I say so!
AMber

[dissention]

I personally hope she'll do Arenas for her health.

That's the thing, she can't because the return isn't big enough.

[dissention]

:laugh: :laugh:

La Adjani (Isabelle Adjani, that is!)
Amber

:shocked: How old is that photo?! Recent?! She must have had work done!

[Serrart]

:shocked: How old is that photo?! Recent?! She must have had work done!

I think it's from Driver (1980 or so), but she's still very beautiful.

Romy

[amber]

I think it's from Driver (1980 or so), but she's still very beautiful.

Romy
Right, or Possession. 1980 ish is right. The thing is, though, she played a 16 year old when she was 36 (Queen Margo) ie, she is still very hot :laugh:
Amber

[diamondsnake]

:lol: An opening act that's better than the headliner...priceless! :lol:
That is a major opinion- Stevie Is Better in my book! She rocks ten times harder then Lindsey even if she doesn't scream like a crazy person into the mic or smash guitars on stage!

[diamondsnake]

Obviously, but that doesn't make them "big time rock and roll" tours. ;)
And what exactly do you consider a big time rock and roll show? If attendance is all that matters then is Hilary Duff shaking her ass for 50,000 junior high girls a big time rock and roll show? I think not!

Seriously, I know what you mean but it is a little harsh to say that it is laughable to call Stevie's tours big time rock and roll shows. She is called the Queen of Rock and Roll and does a kick ass show and can sell tickets for a hundred bucks a pop- I'd call that a big time rock show...

[diamondsnake]

Amber... this is driving me crazy, and I know I should know, but....
who is that in your signature photo?!?!
It looked like Shannen Doherty to me!

[diamondsnake]

who possesses a very odd voice

That's a nice way to put it. The odder her voice gets though the more I'm in love with it. I hope her voice is really weathered for her next record- I love the raspy vocals! :woohoo:

[Johnny Stew]

:lol: An opening act that's better than the headliner...priceless! :lol:
That is a major opinion- Stevie Is Better in my book! She rocks ten times harder then Lindsey even if she doesn't scream like a crazy person into the mic or smash guitars on stage!

Christopher, don't mind dissention... his screenname says it all. ;) :laugh:

(I wonder if Tina Turner's fans thought Lindsey was "better" when he was her opening act. :laugh: Her crowd probably didn't know what the heck to make of him!)

[Kelly]

I was being sarcastic when I said "maybe Stevie could open for Lindsey?!?!? (It came to me after reading the post about Lindsey opening for Stevie) I am well aware that most people think Stevie is the bigger concert draw but I can never foresee the day when he would want to open for Stevie. Nor should he ever. He doesn't need to open for anyone, he is magnificent and more and more people over the last year seem to be appreciating that fact. I wouldn't mind a combined solo tour, but they need to be billed as equals if that ever happened. (which it never will..lol)

[dissention]

And what exactly do you consider a big time rock and roll show? If attendance is all that matters then is Hilary Duff shaking her ass for 50,000 junior high girls a big time rock and roll show? I think not!

Seriously, I know what you mean but it is a little harsh to say that it is laughable to call Stevie's tours big time rock and roll shows. She is called the Queen of Rock and Roll and does a kick ass show and can sell tickets for a hundred bucks a pop- I'd call that a big time rock show...

No, I'd call a Rolling Stones or The Who or a Tina Turner or a Tom Petty show a "big time rock and roll show." I'm not saying Stevie isn't good, I'm just saying that her days of being a big concert draw are over, as evidence by her ticket sales since the Mirror tour.

[dissention]

Christopher, don't mind dissention... his screenname says it all. ;) :laugh:

(I wonder if Tina Turner's fans thought Lindsey was "better" when he was her opening act. :laugh: Her crowd probably didn't know what the heck to make of him!)

Have you seen the Toronto video from when he opened for her?! They didn't know what to make of him! :laugh:

I would have to say that the best live entertainers have to be Lindsey, Tina Turner, and Bette Midler. Hands down. Stevie's great because she has the ability to just stand there and sing with your eyes transfixed, but speaking form a pure entertainment standpoint, you can't beat those three.

[snwriter]

---An opening act that's better than the headliner...priceless! ---

Well that's your opinion. Trouble is, Lindsey would only draw half as many people as Stevie.

[snwriter]

Dissension is wrong.

Tina Turner is NOT as big a draw as Stevie. Stevie IS STILL a big draw--and Tom Petty, since he tours so frequently, doesn't even outdraw Stevie.

[snwriter]

And just for the record--Stevie almost sold out Madison Square Garden for TISL. I know because I was there. Lindsey will never have that honor.

[cliffdweller]

Maybe Stevie should open for Lindsey?!?!?


You're suggesting a scenario that would start WWIII. Neither would open for the other, they'd have to have competing stages at the same show!! Don't let all this SYW commraderie fool you :laugh:

[ThinLine]

And just for the record--Stevie almost sold out Madison Square Garden for TISL. I know because I was there. Lindsey will never have that honor.

Just for the record, Stevie didn't play Madison Square Garden for the TISL tour or the Enchanted tour. Where were you?

Honor? lol

[Les]

That's actually a really good idea because everyone that loves Stevie loves Lindsey!

Hehe. Good one, pretty funny. ;)

[Merf]

Hehe. Good one, pretty funny. ;)

It's "not that funny" to me because I am one of those people :wavey: There *are* some of us out there... however few and far between ;)

[dissention]

Dissension is wrong.

Tina Turner is NOT as big a draw as Stevie. Stevie IS STILL a big draw--and Tom Petty, since he tours so frequently, doesn't even outdraw Stevie.

:lol: You poor deluded creature.

Tina Turner's last tour was #1 and grossed over $80 million, my friend. All of her tours are sell-outs.

Tom Petty is one of the biggest live concert draws when he decides to go out on the road, his concerts are legendary.

[dissention]

Well that's your opinion. Trouble is, Lindsey would only draw half as many people as Stevie.

Nice spin. That has no bearing on the music. :shrug:

[dissention]

It's "not that funny" to me because I am one of those people :wavey: There *are* some of us out there... however few and far between ;)

That's because you have good taste, my darling. ;) I'm one of those people, I just like Lindsey a little bit more. :p

[dissention]

Just for the record, Stevie didn't play Madison Square Garden for the TISL tour or the Enchanted tour. Where were you?

Honor? lol

She hasn't played at Madison Square Garden since '86. :xoxo:

[Les]

It's "not that funny" to me because I am one of those people :wavey: There *are* some of us out there... however few and far between ;)

Thus my laughter at the "everyone" remark. ;)

[ThinLine]

She hasn't played at Madison Square Garden since '86. :xoxo:


but, but, but....snwriter should know....they were there for the TISL tour when it sold out :rolleyes:

[Serrart]

Have you seen the Toronto video from when he opened for her?! They didn't know what to make of him! :laugh:

I would have to say that the best live entertainers have to be Lindsey, Tina Turner, and Bette Midler. Hands down. Stevie's great because she has the ability to just stand there and sing with your eyes transfixed, but speaking form a pure entertainment standpoint, you can't beat those three.

You mean speaking from a pure Dissention's entertainment standpoint. ;) From mine I'd say Stevie, Rolling Stones, U2, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews Band.

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

That's because you have good taste, my darling. ;) I'm one of those people, I just like Lindsey a little bit more. :p

Really? You never let it show! :p


I'm a fan of both Lindsey & Stevie, but quite obviously my preference is Stevie... for the myriad reasons I've cited before.

Beyond those reasons, she doesn't have to dance in high-heels for two hours, or tell jokes dressed like a mermaid, or swing a guitar around her head and duck-walk across the stage, in order to entertain me.
She entertains me through her sheer, unbridled ability to sing a song in way that is endlessly captivating to me.

[dissention]

You mean speaking from a pure Dissention's entertainment standpoint. ;) From mine I'd say Stevie, Rolling Stones, U2, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews Band.

Romy

Ooh, I forgot Bowie! Good choice! :thumbsup:

[dissention]

Really? You never let it show! :p

I know, I've been around you too long. :p

[Johnny Stew]

I know, I've been around you too long. :p

Well, I don't pretend to not prefer Stevie over Lindsey. I love Lindsey's music and always have, but Stevie wins out, time and time again.

However, I don't spend all of my time nit-picking Lindsey's every move, just because I prefer Stevie. But I'm definitely going to be there pointing out hypocrisies when those double-standards crop up (as they so often do). ;) :)

Just as it's extremely unfair when Stevie fans belittle Lindsey's talents and accomplishments, it's also unfair when Lindsey's fans denigrate Stevie with sarcastic cracks, thinly-disguised as humor.

If you don't like Lindsey, then fine... you don't have to.
If you don't like Stevie, then fine... you don't have to.
But others do like one or the other or both, and the endless questioning of people's tastes, and the little pseudo-witty comments about whose tours sell better or whose music is better, grow tiresome.
Always makes me wonder what all the defensiveness is about. :shrug:

[dissention]

If you don't like Lindsey, then fine... you don't have to.
If you don't like Stevie, then fine... you don't have to.
But others do like one or the other or both, and the endless questioning of people's tastes, and the little pseudo-witty comments about whose tours sell better or whose music is better, grow tiresome.
Always makes me wonder what all the defensiveness is about. :shrug:

I agree. But there are only so many Survivor threads to be done, only so many threads about Stevie's hair or how Lindsey is hot threads to be done, only so many fan club threads, only so many favorite lyric or vocal threads, and so on. Eventually everything gets tiresome, but we all come back, don't we? ;) If someone doesn't want to read such comments, they shouldn't start threads or post posts that are obviously going to wind up being what they don't want. Or, utiliize the ignore function.

It's like the radio. If oyu don't like what you're hearing, turn the dial. :D

[Johnny Stew]

I agree. But there are only so many Survivor threads to be done, only so many threads about Stevie's hair or how Lindsey is hot threads to be done, only so many fan club threads, only so many favorite lyric or vocal threads, and so on. Eventually everything gets tiresome, but we all come back, don't we? ;) If someone doesn't want to read such comments, they shouldn't start threads or post posts that are obviously going to wind up being what they don't want. Or, utiliize the ignore function.

It's like the radio. If oyu don't like what you're hearing, turn the dial. :D

I'm not saying we shouldn't debate these things, or cite preferences, etc.
I'm just saying that there ARE ways to debate, and there ARE ways to discuss why you like something or why you don't like something, without all the little sneering jabs and digs.

The derivise comments breed resentment and hostility... and, to me at least, usually seem like the last resort of someone who doesn't have a valid argument. :shrug:

[dissention]

I'm not saying we shouldn't debate these things, or cite preferences, etc.
I'm just saying that there ARE ways to debate, and there ARE ways to discuss why you like something or why you don't like something, without all the little sneering jabs and digs.

The derivise comments breed resentment and hostility... and, to me at least, usually seem like the last resort of someone who doesn't have a valid argument. :shrug:

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I see everyone participating in that very behavior you outlined above, including yourself, whether it's intentional or unintentional. Those are the drawbacks of message boards, unfortunately.

[diamondsnake]

---An opening act that's better than the headliner...priceless! ---

Well that's your opinion. Trouble is, Lindsey would only draw half as many people as Stevie.
Lindsey would sell way less then half of the tickets Stevie did. He's not a household name unlike Stevie. Sorry to say.

I think this whole thing is silly- they both want to make more music and they both, most likely want to tour. Fleetwood Mac as a united front is more popular then just Stevie and especially just Lindsey... so why don't they just work together and do another Mac album? They can fit a good 18, 20 songs on it so they are getting out a ton of music each. It is not like they are making a vinyl record with Christine giving them each three songs. Just forget the whole solo thing!

[diamondsnake]

I just like Lindsey a little bit more. :p

Talk about an understatment! I've been on this board for years and you rarely say anything about him that could even be called critisism. But the semi-rude Stevie comments are endless! No offense, dis!


I have a question for the board: Is there anyone that likes Stevie and Lindsey both equally? This sounds impossible to me because they are so different you have to like one more.

And in case anyone didn't know Stevie is my favorite. I really don't understand how anyone could not choose Stevie as there favorite. I guess that is because I am so obsessed with her! But then again, I also don't understand how someone could like cats more then dogs! I don't get cat people- dogs are much more loveable! Okay, I'm getting off track. Oh well!

[sparky]

Fleetwood Mac as a united front is more popular then just Stevie and especially just Lindsey... so why don't they just work together and do another Mac album?

This would work. It will also take YEARS. Let us remember most of Lindsey's songs were pretty much done when they went into that house to record SYW. If they start work on a record in January, which is a laughable concept, the record would not be out until spring of 2006, at the very earliest. To be realistic, I would say spring of 2007. One year for Lindsey to work on his songs, one year for him to work on Stevie's. I think his recording timetable is well documented and difficult to dispute. I hope Stevie does a solo record in the interim, or has hip surgery, which she clearly needs.

[Johnny Stew]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I see everyone participating in that very behavior you outlined above, including yourself, whether it's intentional or unintentional. Those are the drawbacks of message boards, unfortunately.


And didn't I include both "sides" when I made the statement? I think I clearly said that it's just as wrong when Stevie fans do it.

As I've said before, I don't purposefully and gleefully take jabs at Lindsey. If you've ever watched, any comment I've made has always been in response to someone making a jab at Stevie (or "Stevie Fans") for something that Lindsey (or "Lindsey Fans") also do(es).
And I also call Stevie fans on the same behaviour... though most times five other people have already beaten me to that.

But since we're all guilty of it, then how about we ALL do our best to not do it.

[amber]

And didn't I include both "sides" when I made the statement? I think I clearly said that it's just as wrong when Stevie fans do it.

As I've said before, I don't purposefully and gleefully take jabs at Lindsey. If you've ever watched, any comment I've made has always been in response to someone making a jab at Stevie (or "Stevie Fans") for something that Lindsey (or "Lindsey Fans") also do(es).
And I also call Stevie fans on the same behaviour... though most times five other people have already beaten me to that.

But since we're all guilty of it, then how about we ALL do our best to not do it.
What about when it's funny? The whole thing didn't really bother me, cause i figured we all know we're all fans of one of em, and we all know that we all love one better than the rest...I just didn't think it was that serious.... :) :wavey:
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

What about when it's funny? The whole thing didn't really bother me, cause i figured we all know we're all fans of one of em, and we all know that we all love one better than the rest...I just didn't think it was that serious.... :) :wavey:

I think I have a pretty great sense of humour, and a lot of the comments made are really funny (sometimes even hysterical). I think it's just rather un-funny when a joke is made at the expense of one of them, in order to make the other look better.

I don't have a good example right now. I guess it's just one of those cases where "you know it when you see it."

Maybe we all (and that includes myself) just take some of this stuff a little too seriously sometimes.

[amber]

I think I have a pretty great sense of humour, and a lot of the comments made are really funny (sometimes even hysterical). I think it's just rather un-funny when a joke is made at the expense of one of them, in order to make the other look better.

I don't have a good example right now. I guess it's just one of those cases where "you know it when you see it."

Maybe we all (and that includes myself) just take some of this stuff a little too seriously sometimes.
Ah, well...I swear I can tell the moon and venus are in Cancer today...I feel a smidge touchy, and perhaps others do to... :D Yeah, ok. When someone or me disses my people, I just usually laugh and re-diss...it's hard to get mad at people for their opinions - well, it's not hard to get mad, it's just hard to justify being mad! :laugh: Anyway..
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

Ah, well...I swear I can tell the moon and venus are in Cancer today...I feel a smidge touchy, and perhaps others do to... :D

That's a good idea... chalk today up to astrological influences, and let's just all move on. :) :nod:

(The first time I typed that, I accidentally typed "move in" instead of "move on." There's a thought... a dozen or so Ledgies all in the Big Brother house together! Eek!) :laugh:

[amber]

That's a good idea... chalk today up to astrological influences, and let's just all move on. :) :nod:

(The first time I typed that, I accidentally typed "move in" instead of "move on." There's a thought... a dozen or so Ledgies all in the Big Brother house together! Eek!) :laugh:
That would be great! As long as we had a pool....
AMber

[Serrart]

I think this whole thing is silly- they both want to make more music and they both, most likely want to tour. Fleetwood Mac as a united front is more popular then just Stevie and especially just Lindsey... so why don't they just work together and do another Mac album? They can fit a good 18, 20 songs on it so they are getting out a ton of music each. It is not like they are making a vinyl record with Christine giving them each three songs. Just forget the whole solo thing!

That sounds very reasonable, but right now (maybe in a week I will change my mind :p), I'd prefer a Stevie solo album. After working at such a complex CD as Say You Will, and be on a year and a half world tour, I'm curious to see at what point she is as a singer and as a songwriter, indipendently from Fleetwood Mac.

I have a question for the board: Is there anyone that likes Stevie and Lindsey both equally? This sounds impossible to me because they are so different you have to like one more.

And in case anyone didn't know Stevie is my favorite. I really don't understand how anyone could not choose Stevie as there favorite. I guess that is because I am so obsessed with her! But then again, I also don't understand how someone could like cats more then dogs! I don't get cat people- dogs are much more loveable! Okay, I'm getting off track. Oh well!

I prefer Stevie too, even if I really like Lindsey and have the deepest respect for him as musician and producer. I'll buy his CD and go to his concert if I'll be able to, he simply doesn't involve me as much on a personal level as Stevie. When they are together with Fleetwood Mac, I just see their incredible harmony. :cool:

Romy

[amber]

That sounds very reasonable, but right now (maybe in a week I will change my mind :p), I'd prefer a Stevie solo album. After working at such a complex CD as Say You Will, and be on a year and a half world tour, I'm curious to see at what point she is as a singer and as a songwriter, indipendently from Fleetwood Mac.




I wanna hear Stevie's record just so I can know the scoop of what happened on the SYW tour :laugh:
You know, people falling in love with her, illicit liaisons, and so forth... :p ;) :laugh:
AMber

[Claripup]

Originally Posted by diamondsnake
I have a question for the board: Is there anyone that likes Stevie and Lindsey both equally? This sounds impossible to me because they are so different you have to like one more.

Sorry not me... I'm a Stevie fan through and through... and you don't want to know my opinion of Lindsey. :shocked: ;) :p :wavey:

[Hawkeye]

I have a question for the board: Is there anyone that likes Stevie and Lindsey both equally? This sounds impossible to me because they are so different you have to like one more.

I DO :thumbsup: absolutely they're equal in my mind.

[ThinLine]

Sorry not me... I'm a Stevie fan through and through... and you don't want to know my opinion of Lindsey. :shocked: ;) :p :wavey:


common, it sounds like you're just dying to tell us! :wavey:

[Claripup]

common, it sounds like you're just dying to tell us! :wavey:
No... not me.... :angel:

[Hawkeye]

Oh come on Claripup you can't bring up a thought and not finish it :shocked: :laugh: You should no people here have all kinds of opinions. Just tell us yours.

[diamondsnake]

I'm sort of more interested in a Stevie solo record right now too. I have been listening to Shangri La over and over and over again and could sing you the whole album from front to back blindfolded! I can't get enough of Bombay Saphires (especially the line "I could take you higher!")

[diamondsnake]

Oh come on Claripup you can't bring up a thought and not finish it :shocked: :laugh: You should no people here have all kinds of opinions. Just tell us yours.
I want to know what you think of Lindsey too. And not to start anything but it would be sort of refreshing to hear some critisism of Lindsey because around here everyone acts like he's a god. I'm sorry but to me Stevie is the goddess of Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey is just a person. Although I'm sure he's a very nice person!

The point I am trying to make is that Lindsey is held up on a pedestal on the Ledge boards and everyone acts like Stevie is overrated or something. While Stevie is made fun of until the cows come home, Lindsey is like this royal member of the band. It makes me want to puke!

In Conclusion... Stevie Rules!!!!

[GateandGarden]

No... not me.... :angel:
Please tell us! :D We can take it! :nod: :nod:

As for my response to Christopher's earlier question, I too prefer Stevie. I love Lindsey, respect him greatly as a producer, am endlessly impressed by his playing, and am thankful that he is part of the Mac, because it is all the more interesting with his songwriting included, but I don't love him as much as I love Stevie. (I'm making it sound like I know these people! :laugh: ) Stevie touches me on a very personal level, and I prefer her lyrics over his very much. And, shameful as it is, I have to say that I have a tendency to like female artists more.

Hillary

[diamondsnake]

I have a tendency to like female artists more

Me too! :angel:

[sparky]

Maybe we all (and that includes myself) just take some of this stuff a little too seriously sometimes.

YA THINK ?

Not so much you, Johnny, but many.

Basically, this is all just fun. I like hearing everyone's opinions, and frankly the personalities of the posters are of relentless entertainment value.

I do take the music pretty seriously. But, for God's sake, these are people we're talking about. I don't see them as dieties or more than human. It just so happens that my personality is to call garbage garbage, and art art. I enjoy doing that, and hearing the how and why of other people's thought processes in experiencing the music. If someone makes fun of anyone in this band, I do not take personal offense. They have all done historically great music and sometimes outright crap. Most artists have. Plus, most of them have a host of scandalous or remarkable behaviour that is fascinating too.
It's ENTERTAINMENT. In oh so many ways !

[dissention]

What about when it's funny? The whole thing didn't really bother me, cause i figured we all know we're all fans of one of em, and we all know that we all love one better than the rest...I just didn't think it was that serious.... :) :wavey:
AMber

Exactly, Amber. :wavey: It's as if people around here take comments like that seriously when they're just jokes and ways to pass time on this board.

[dissention]

I want to know what you think of Lindsey too. And not to start anything but it would be sort of refreshing to hear some critisism of Lindsey because around here everyone acts like he's a god. I'm sorry but to me Stevie is the goddess of Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey is just a person. Although I'm sure he's a very nice person!

The point I am trying to make is that Lindsey is held up on a pedestal on the Ledge boards and everyone acts like Stevie is overrated or something. While Stevie is made fun of until the cows come home, Lindsey is like this royal member of the band. It makes me want to puke!

In Conclusion... Stevie Rules!!!!

:rolleyes: :laugh:

This is what I find ridiculous, and I'm sure Le Stew would agree with me.

I make no bones about being a huge Lindsey fan. Just like a lot of other people on this board, I started off as a huge Stevie fan and then "converted." I do think he's a genius, just as I think Stevie is genius when it comes to lyrics and vocals.

I love both Lindsey and Stevie, Lindsey more, but of course they're both going to have material that I simply do not care for. In the case of Stevie, she's put out a lot more material over the years than Lindsey, so she's more than likely going to have more stuff that I dislike, namely SA, some of RAL, and her Tango stuff. Now, as much as I like Stevie, every time anyone expresses any sort of criticism towards her, they're shot down and considered crazy.

Fact is, not everything she's done is great, IMO. I think she gets stuck in lots of ruts and just stews in the same thing for ages when it comes to her music. She isn't adventurous and always sticks with the same formula; she's too safe and wants to be too commerical too often. Doesn't change the quality of the lyrics or the quality of her voice, but it can get a bit rote for me. I still love *most* of it, but there's just some stuff that I find terrible. Doesn't make me any less of a fan, whether you agree or not. Then you have Lindsey, who doesn't stick to any formula. He does what he wants and doesn't hold back. Sometimes it makes for stellar music, sometimes not. But it's his willingness to experiment and the quality of it all that I find so appealing.

To me, when I look at Stevie's music, I see a pattern to it. With each progressive album, she caters more and more to public tastes, the pinnacle being the Street Angel album which was so devoid of any emotion that I can't bear listening to it. I can't blame her for wanting to sell tons of records, but I just wish she'd challenge herself more. We all know she can do it, just look at Illume; one of her most out-of-left-field songs. She needs to breathe more life into her music, which I submit she can based on parts of TISL and SYW.

There are plenty of things I don't like about Lindsey. He mumbles too many lyrics, gets a bit too self-indulgent (Street of Dreams and Come), goes overboard on the production sometimes, and noodles too much on some songs (Bleed To Love Her...ugh). But, just like with Stevie, it doesn't make the music necessarily bad. Almost every song of theirs has at least one redeeming value (I said almost, I didn't let WISYA or some of those GOS songs off the hook) because they're the ones at the wheel.

I think a lot of people around here simply forget why we're all here: because we're fans of this band. But just because we're fans, we don't have to worship at the Temple of La Nicks or the Temple of Liddy Buck. We don't have to throw around labels like "The Queen of Rock" to prove our points because, in all honesty, labels like those are subjective and just end up turning people off. It makes people look like blind worshippers, which I'm sure they're not, and has no service in these discussions. As much as I'd love to, I don't trot around the board proclaiming Lindsey "The King of All Music." Why? Because it's all subjective and just because I love Lindsey, it doesn't mean others do. I accept that, even though there are fans of both Stevie and Lindsey who are simply dead-set against giving the other credit for anything. It's absurd and provides for much comic relief.

People like who they like, it's as simple as that and everyone needs to accept that. Just because someone says some Stevie material is awful or because they say Law and Order is a terrible excuse for an album, or even if they make some comment or barb about the work of some band members, it doesn't give everyone free reign to belittle those opinions by labeling someone as a Stevie or Lindsey "hater." I see a lot of people complain about how they're so sick of the negative comments and blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that any criticism can be construed as negative and they're the ones dwelling ont he negative when they choose to post posts completely relating to what they see as negativity from others.

What you've done with your post above, Christopher, is belittle fans of Lindsey by making it seem as if they think he's a god. He's not, he's a musician. He has no title like King or Prince, he's just a freaking musician. To say that his fans put him on a pedestal and then turn around and call Stevie a Queen is, in my opinion, hypocritical and short-sighted.

Like who you like, enjoy the music, and discuss the music however you feel you need to discuss it.

[/end rant] :laugh:

[dissention]

YA THINK ?

Not so much you, Johnny, but many.

Basically, this is all just fun. I like hearing everyone's opinions, and frankly the personalities of the posters are of relentless entertainment value.

I do take the music pretty seriously. But, for God's sake, these are people we're talking about. I don't see them as dieties or more than human. It just so happens that my personality is to call garbage garbage, and art art. I enjoy doing that, and hearing the how and why of other people's thought processes in experiencing the music. If someone makes fun of anyone in this band, I do not take personal offense. They have all done historically great music and sometimes outright crap. Most artists have. Plus, most of them have a host of scandalous or remarkable behaviour that is fascinating too.
It's ENTERTAINMENT. In oh so many ways !

Did I ever tell you all I love Sparky? He completes me. :laugh: :wavey:

[GateandGarden]

:rolleyes: :laugh:

This is what I find ridiculous, and I'm sure Le Stew would agree with me.

I make no bones about being a huge Lindsey fan. Just like a lot of other people on this board, I started off as a huge Stevie fan and then "converted." I do think he's a genius, just as I think Stevie is genius when it comes to lyrics and vocals.

I love both Lindsey and Stevie, Lindsey more, but of course they're both going to have material that I simply do not care for. In the case of Stevie, she's put out a lot more material over the years than Lindsey, so she's more than likely going to have more stuff that I dislike, namely SA, some of RAL, and her Tango stuff. Now, as much as I like Stevie, every time anyone expresses any sort of criticism towards her, they're shot down and considered crazy.

Fact is, not everything she's done is great, IMO. I think she gets stuck in lots of ruts and just stews in the same thing for ages when it comes to her music. She isn't adventurous and always sticks with the same formula; she's too safe and wants to be too commerical too often. Doesn't change the quality of the lyrics or the quality of her voice, but it can get a bit rote for me. I still love *most* of it, but there's just some stuff that I find terrible. Doesn't make me any less of a fan, whether you agree or not. Then you have Lindsey, who doesn't stick to any formula. He does what he wants and doesn't hold back. Sometimes it makes for stellar music, sometimes not. But it's his willingness to experiment and the quality of it all that I find so appealing.

To me, when I look at Stevie's music, I see a pattern to it. With each progressive album, she caters more and more to public tastes, the pinnacle being the Street Angel album which was so devoid of any emotion that I can't bear listening to it. I can't blame her for wanting to sell tons of records, but I just wish she'd challenge herself more. We all know she can do it, just look at Illume; one of her most out-of-left-field songs. She needs to breathe more life into her music, which I submit she can based on parts of TISL and SYW.

There are plenty of things I don't like about Lindsey. He mumbles too many lyrics, gets a bit too self-indulgent (Street of Dreams and Come), goes overboard on the production sometimes, and noodles too much on some songs (Bleed To Love Her...ugh). But, just like with Stevie, it doesn't make the music necessarily bad. Almost every song of theirs has at least one redeeming value (I said almost, I didn't let WISYA or some of those GOS songs off the hook) because they're the ones at the wheel.

I think a lot of people around here simply forget why we're all here: because we're fans of this band. But just because we're fans, we don't have to worship at the Temple of La Nicks or the Temple of Liddy Buck. We don't have to throw around labels like "The Queen of Rock" to prove our points because, in all honesty, labels like those are subjective and just end up turning people off. It makes people look like blind worshippers, which I'm sure they're not, and has no service in these discussions. As much as I'd love to, I don't trot around the board proclaiming Lindsey "The King of All Music." Why? Because it's all subjective and just because I love Lindsey, it doesn't mean others do. I accept that, even though there are fans of both Stevie and Lindsey who are simply dead-set against giving the other credit for anything. It's absurd and provides for much comic relief.

People like who they like, it's as simple as that and everyone needs to accept that. Just because someone says some Stevie material is awful or because they say Law and Order is a terrible excuse for an album, or even if they make some comment or barb about the work of some band members, it doesn't give everyone free reign to belittle those opinions by labeling someone as a Stevie or Lindsey "hater." I see a lot of people complain about how they're so sick of the negative comments and blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that any criticism can be construed as negative and they're the ones dwelling ont he negative when they choose to post posts completely relating to what they see as negativity from others.

What you've done with your post above, Christopher, is belittle fans of Lindsey by making it seem as if they think he's a god. He's not, he's a musician. He has no title like King or Prince, he's just a freaking musician. To say that his fans put him on a pedestal and then turn around and call Stevie a Queen is, in my opinion, hypocritical and short-sighted.

Like who you like, enjoy the music, and discuss the music however you feel you need to discuss it.

[/end rant] :laugh:
It's hard to argue with this, since you always seem to make a good case for...anything (based on what I've seen here and when I saw you on the BuckinghamNicks board), but I have to say this. All things considered, I think the lyrics are the most important thing in the end. I just can't be as impressed with Lindsey because his lyrics don't impress me nearly as much as Stevie's do. I'm hesitant to go on comparing two artists when I know that one clearly writes better lyrics. It's like a no contest for me. But, yes, of course--it's all subjective. I'm seeing that other things are more important to you, such as Lindsey's willingness to do his own thing more so than Stevie. There are lots of things that are better about him. I wouldn't deny that. But to me, everything is outweighed by the lyrics, even if some days I do feel more like listening to Lindsey's music, I'll go back to Stevie in the end because of the lyrics.

Hillary

[dissention]

It's hard to argue with this, since you always seem to make a good case for...anything (based on what I've seen here and when I saw you on the BuckinghamNicks board)

First off, thank you, Hillary. :D

but I have to say this. All things considered, I think the lyrics are the most important thing in the end. I just can't be as impressed with Lindsey because his lyrics don't impress me nearly as much as Stevie's do. I'm hesitant to go on comparing two artists when I know that one clearly writes better lyrics. It's like a no contest for me. But, yes, of course--it's all subjective. I'm seeing that other things are more important to you, such as Lindsey's willingness to do his own thing more so than Stevie. There are lots of things that are better about him. I wouldn't deny that. But to me, everything is outweighed by the lyrics, even if some days I do feel more like listening to Lindsey's music, I'll go back to Stevie in the end because of the lyrics.


I agree that the lyrics are mighty important. I think Stevie writes *amazing* lyrics for the most part and I hold all of them dear for one reason or another. But in the case of Lindsey, I think the music and the production are just as important as the lyrics in evoking an emotional response and having the desired effect. For example, take "Save Me A Place." Write the lyrics down on paper and they're pretty ****ty. But then listen to the song and it's a totally different experience. It can be very affecting because of his vocal delivery, the repetitive music, and the odd production. His music is more multi-layered than Stevie's is, to me, because all of these aspects are needed to drive home the message of the song. With Stevie, even though her message can be somewhat abstract, the emotions that are being conveyed are noticeable from the get-go and the music itself takes a back seat.

In the end, I'm just a Stevie fan-boy and a Lindsey fan-boy. Nothing more, nothing less. ;)

[GateandGarden]

First off, thank you, Hillary. :D



I agree that the lyrics are mighty important. I think Stevie writes *amazing* lyrics for the most part and I hold all of them dear for one reason or another. But in the case of Lindsey, I think the music and the production are just as important as the lyrics in evoking an emotional response and having the desired effect. For example, take "Save Me A Place." Write the lyrics down on paper and they're pretty ****ty. But then listen to the song and it's a totally different experience. It can be very affecting because of his vocal delivery, the repetitive music, and the odd production. His music is more multi-layered than Stevie's is, to me, because all of these aspects are needed to drive home the message of the song. With Stevie, even though her message can be somewhat abstract, the emotions that are being conveyed are noticeable from the get-go and the music itself takes a back seat.

In the end, I'm just a Stevie fan-boy and a Lindsey fan-boy. Nothing more, nothing less. ;)
I can see what you're saying. I'll probably always be a crazy Stevie fanatic, but y'all are making me respect Lindsey more and more. And that's cool. :)

Hillary

[sparky]

Did I ever tell you all I love Sparky? He completes me. :laugh: :wavey:

Who'd a thunk it ? Back at ya, D :wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

:rolleyes: :laugh:

This is what I find ridiculous, and I'm sure Le Stew would agree with me.

I make no bones about being a huge Lindsey fan. Just like a lot of other people on this board, I started off as a huge Stevie fan and then "converted." I do think he's a genius, just as I think Stevie is genius when it comes to lyrics and vocals.

Now, as much as I like Stevie, every time anyone expresses any sort of criticism towards her, they're shot down and considered crazy.

I think a lot of people around here simply forget why we're all here: because we're fans of this band. But just because we're fans, we don't have to worship at the Temple of La Nicks or the Temple of Liddy Buck. We don't have to throw around labels like "The Queen of Rock" to prove our points because, in all honesty, labels like those are subjective and just end up turning people off. It makes people look like blind worshippers, which I'm sure they're not, and has no service in these discussions. As much as I'd love to, I don't trot around the board proclaiming Lindsey "The King of All Music." Why? Because it's all subjective and just because I love Lindsey, it doesn't mean others do. I accept that, even though there are fans of both Stevie and Lindsey who are simply dead-set against giving the other credit for anything. It's absurd and provides for much comic relief.

People like who they like, it's as simple as that and everyone needs to accept that. Just because someone says some Stevie material is awful or because they say Law and Order is a terrible excuse for an album, or even if they make some comment or barb about the work of some band members, it doesn't give everyone free reign to belittle those opinions by labeling someone as a Stevie or Lindsey "hater." I see a lot of people complain about how they're so sick of the negative comments and blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that any criticism can be construed as negative and they're the ones dwelling ont he negative when they choose to post posts completely relating to what they see as negativity from others.

Like who you like, enjoy the music, and discuss the music however you feel you need to discuss it.


The point that I try to make... and yet, always seems to get lost in these posts... is NOT that you can't or shouldn't voice an opinion or criticism about Lindsey & Stevie, etc.
I've never said that.
And anyone who looks around, will see that I voice my opinions, too.

All I'm ever saying, is that there are certain types of comments made, that are bound to create hostility.

Let's use what you said for an example, dissention.

For the first page of this thread, no one was saying anything at all derogatory or belittling towards Lindsey. The opinion was voiced that it would be cool if Lindsey opened for Stevie. (Which, based on their respective ticket-sales, might make good business sense... though I highly doubt it would ever happen.)

Nothing more, nothing less.

And then you came along and had to say, "An opening act that's better than the headliner...priceless!"

Sure, it might seem like an "innocent" joke to you... but when you also say that you've come to prefer Lindsey to Stevie, it comes across as a snide dig.

No, you shouldn't have to constantly qualify your appreciation for Stevie, in order to criticize her work, but when you say you prefer Lindsey and then make a comment like the one cited above... it just leaves people to wonder about your motives.

I can just imagine the brouhaha that would explode on the Lindsey Forum, if someone who readily admits they prefer Stevie, were to go over there and laugh at the notion of Stevie opening for Lindsey, when she's "better" than he.

What other motive could one have, in making a statement like that, other than to stir up the pot?

Now, if someone said, "Lindsey shouldn't open for Stevie... he's too good to be relegated to an opening act," then I think pretty much everyone could get on board with that.
But if someone says, "Lindsey shouldn't open for Stevie, because he's better than her," it's bound to cause a ruckus.

You and I have both been around here long enough to know that, diss.

Now, at this point in time, I'm sure you'll probably say that that's your style, and just your sense of humour. And, hey, more power to you.
But when you say something in a caustic way, the only thing to expect is a caustic response. :shrug:

[dissention]

The point that I try to make... and yet, always seems to get lost in these posts... is NOT that you can't or shouldn't voice an opinion or criticism about Lindsey & Stevie, etc.
I've never said that.
And anyone who looks around, will see that I voice my opinions, too.

All I'm ever saying, is that there are certain types of comments made, that are bound to create hostility.

Let's use what you said for an example, dissention.

For the first page of this thread, no one was saying anything at all derogatory or belittling towards Lindsey. The opinion was voiced that it would be cool if Lindsey opened for Stevie. (Which, based on their respective ticket-sales, might make good business sense... though I highly doubt it would ever happen.)

Nothing more, nothing less.

And then you came along and had to say, "An opening act that's better than the headliner...priceless!"

Sure, it might seem like an "innocent" joke to you... but when you also say that you've come to prefer Lindsey to Stevie, it comes across as a snide dig.

No, you shouldn't have to constantly qualify your appreciation for Stevie, in order to criticize her work, but when you say you prefer Lindsey and then make a comment like the one cited above... it just leaves people to wonder about your motives.

I can just imagine the brouhaha that would explode on the Lindsey Forum, if someone who readily admits they prefer Stevie, were to go over there and laugh at the notion of Stevie opening for Lindsey, when she's "better" than he.

What other motive could one have, in making a statement like that, other than to stir up the pot?

Now, if someone said, "Lindsey shouldn't open for Stevie... he's too good to be relegated to an opening act," then I think pretty much everyone could get on board with that.
But if someone says, "Lindsey shouldn't open for Stevie, because he's better than her," it's bound to cause a ruckus.

You and I have both been around here long enough to know that, diss.

Now, at this point in time, I'm sure you'll probably say that that's your style, and just your sense of humour. And, hey, more power to you.
But when you say something in a caustic way, the only thing to expect is a caustic response. :shrug:

I see my entire post was lost on you, Johnny.

[Johnny Stew]

I see my entire post was lost on you, Johnny.

In what way did you gather that?
I understood every word.

I also understand where you're coming from.

I had just hoped that maybe you'd be open to seeing where others are coming from too. :nod: :)

[amber]

I had just hoped that maybe you'd be open to seeing where others are coming from too. :nod: :)
Why'nt you just wish for world peace while your at it? :laugh: :p
AMber

[dissention]

In what way did you gather that?
I understood every word.

I also understand where you're coming from.

I had just hoped that maybe you'd be open to seeing where others are coming from too. :nod: :)

I understand where you're coming from very plainly. However, I don't feel that I or anyone else should have to censor what they say because it may or may not be construed as snide or rude. I'm simply employing the same logic you used on the Rumours board when I brought up the Lindsey vs. Stevie hypocrisy that I saw.

I've stated how much I like Stevie too many times to count and I don't have to qualify my criticisms by saying it yet again. But at the same time, I do because people will get up in arms over the smallest criticism. That's the reality of it. Should I have known that the first comment about Lindsey opening for Stevie was not meant as a jab? No, I had no way of knowing. Every post is open to interpretation and mine is probably different from yours, unfortunately. :xoxo:

In the end, we like who we like and it comes through in all of our posts. I just find the rudest behavior coming from the people who constantly harp on other posters for what they believe is negativity.

[dissention]

Why'nt you just wish for world peace while your at it? :laugh: :p
AMber

I don't take it this way, Amber ( :xoxo: ), but could this be taken for one of those snide or caustic comments?

See, everything is open to interpretation, Le Stew. ;)

[Johnny Stew]

Why'nt you just wish for world peace while your at it? :laugh: :p

Well, I thought I'd set my sights a little lower, and then work my way up... but world peace might actually be the more obtainable goal after all! :laugh: :xoxo:

[amber]

I don't take it this way, Amber ( :xoxo: ), but could this be taken for one of those snide or caustic comments?

See, everything is open to interpretation, Le Stew. ;)
Of course, but i'm not under duress, thus far. Nor have I called you out, like JS has (except for a long time ago, when you said "Bitchy much?" but we made up - problem solved) so i feel free to say it still. Plus, I put "laughies" cause it really was a joke, and i thought a funny enough one for people to tell it was a joke, If I Do Say So Myself, Well I Have...ooops, too much. :woohoo: :wavey:
AMber

[amber]

Well, I thought I'd set my sights a little lower, and then work my way up... but world peace might actually be the more obtainable goal after all! :laugh: :xoxo:
:laugh: :laugh:
good 'un. Isn't it nice when we can all laugh together?
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

I understand where you're coming from very plainly. However, I don't feel that I or anyone else should have to censor what they say because it may or may not be construed as snide or rude. I'm simply employing the same logic you used on the Rumours board when I brought up the Lindsey vs. Stevie hypocrisy that I saw.

I've stated how much I like Stevie too many times to count and I don't have to qualify my criticisms by saying it yet again. But at the same time, I do because people will get up in arms over the smallest criticism. That's the reality of it. Should I have known that the first comment about Lindsey opening for Stevie was not meant as a jab? No, I had no way of knowing. Every post is open to interpretation and mine is probably different from yours, unfortunately. :xoxo:

In the end, we like who we like and it comes through in all of our posts. I just find the rudest behavior coming from the people who constantly harp on other posters for what they believe is negativity.

See, why does the word "censor" have to come up?
What's being censored if we all just learn to be a little less harsh with each other? And I don't mean just you, but EVERYONE.

You and I have had the "negativity" talk before. And I think it's unfair when you throw it back in people's faces that they're the ones being truly negative for even mentioning it. So no one is supposed to stand up for themselves?
It's like telling someone in an abusive relationship to just put up or shut up.

In saying this, I am NOT saying that it's right for someone to just come along and retaliate or criticize someone for a "negative" opinion.
That's not what I'm saying here, nor is it what I've ever tried to say.

Anything I do say, always gets thrown back in my face anyway... but I've never cared about that. I can handle anything someone says to me or about me. I've just tried to stick up for the Ledgies who've felt they were being pushed down or belittled. The ones who eventually leave because they're tired of being made to feel like fools.

I had thought that people would actually care if they've hurt someone, or have driven people away, but I guess I was wrong. Everyone only cares about having things their way.

And I had hoped for some compromising from both "sides," and more respect for each other, but that's not going to happen.

No one wants to be flexible or see another point of view, and I'm tired of trying to persuade them to.

[Johnny Stew]

Isn't it nice when we can all laugh together?

Yeah, it is. Always has been. :nod: :)

[Serrart]

I agree that the lyrics are mighty important. I think Stevie writes *amazing* lyrics for the most part and I hold all of them dear for one reason or another. But in the case of Lindsey, I think the music and the production are just as important as the lyrics in evoking an emotional response and having the desired effect. For example, take "Save Me A Place." Write the lyrics down on paper and they're pretty ****ty. But then listen to the song and it's a totally different experience. It can be very affecting because of his vocal delivery, the repetitive music, and the odd production. His music is more multi-layered than Stevie's is, to me, because all of these aspects are needed to drive home the message of the song. With Stevie, even though her message can be somewhat abstract, the emotions that are being conveyed are noticeable from the get-go and the music itself takes a back seat.

In the end, I'm just a Stevie fan-boy and a Lindsey fan-boy. Nothing more, nothing less. ;)

I have to thank you Dissention because you just make me realize why, in my opinion, Stevie's able to reach so many people.

:eek: WARNING: Stevie fan's casual rambling below! :eek: (Disclaimer: Lindsey rules too! :nod: )

Using a cinema comparison, she's like the director Douglas Sirk (Magnificent Obsession, All That Heaven Allows, Written On The Wind, Imitation Of Life). Every element of his cinema amplified the emotions in the story, and what seemed to some critics like simple and blatant melos, kept reaching on very personal levels the public of different generations and inspired experimental film-makers like Fassbinder, Cassavetes, Lars Von Trier, Almodovar. Stevie continues to inspire new generations of singers and songwriters, because of her abiity to communicate through her songs with very different kinds of audiences on extremely personal levels, and that's impressing and rare.

Hope it makes a bit of sense...:p

Romy

[face of glass]

Hope it makes a bit of sense...:p
Why yes. You're talking of "The Grande Esoterica", of course. ;)

[dissention]

See, why does the word "censor" have to come up?
What's being censored if we all just learn to be a little less harsh with each other? And I don't mean just you, but EVERYONE.

You and I have had the "negativity" talk before. And I think it's unfair when you throw it back in people's faces that they're the ones being truly negative for even mentioning it. So no one is supposed to stand up for themselves?
It's like telling someone in an abusive relationship to just put up or shut up.

In saying this, I am NOT saying that it's right for someone to just come along and retaliate or criticize someone for a "negative" opinion.
That's not what I'm saying here, nor is it what I've ever tried to say.

Anything I do say, always gets thrown back in my face anyway... but I've never cared about that. I can handle anything someone says to me or about me. I've just tried to stick up for the Ledgies who've felt they were being pushed down or belittled. The ones who eventually leave because they're tired of being made to feel like fools.

I had thought that people would actually care if they've hurt someone, or have driven people away, but I guess I was wrong. Everyone only cares about having things their way.

And I had hoped for some compromising from both "sides," and more respect for each other, but that's not going to happen.

No one wants to be flexible or see another point of view, and I'm tired of trying to persuade them to.

Equating comments made on this board to the bondage of an abusive relationship is a bit much, Johnny. :laugh:

If someone takes offense to me saying that Lindsey would be more of a highlight than Stevie, I can't help that. But it's rather silly to take offense to that. I surely don't take offense if someone says that about Stevie because tastes are subjective.

Personally, I take offense to someone like Christopher CONSTANTLY calling me out on my opinions towards Stevie's music. I understand that he likes pretty much all of it, but he needs to remember that his tastes are not everyone elses. If he disagrees, constructively post why he disagrees with my assessment, not just type "She's the Queen of Rock and Roll" and then run. But don't call me out and obsess over the fact that every time Street Angel or something else comes up, I express my dismay over the it. It causes more problems, which is something I don't think you understand, Johnny.

The big thing that needs to be considered is that this is a public message board for people who want to discuss their opnions on the band and its members. When people make remarks about the band and it's music, it simply isn't personal towards someone who likes that particular member. End of story.

[amber]

See, why does the word "censor" have to come up?
What's being censored if we all just learn to be a little less harsh with each other? And I don't mean just you, but EVERYONE.

You and I have had the "negativity" talk before. And I think it's unfair when you throw it back in people's faces that they're the ones being truly negative for even mentioning it. So no one is supposed to stand up for themselves?
It's like telling someone in an abusive relationship to just put up or shut up.

In saying this, I am NOT saying that it's right for someone to just come along and retaliate or criticize someone for a "negative" opinion.
That's not what I'm saying here, nor is it what I've ever tried to say.

Anything I do say, always gets thrown back in my face anyway... but I've never cared about that. I can handle anything someone says to me or about me. I've just tried to stick up for the Ledgies who've felt they were being pushed down or belittled. The ones who eventually leave because they're tired of being made to feel like fools.

I had thought that people would actually care if they've hurt someone, or have driven people away, but I guess I was wrong. Everyone only cares about having things their way.

And I had hoped for some compromising from both "sides," and more respect for each other, but that's not going to happen.

No one wants to be flexible or see another point of view, and I'm tired of trying to persuade them to.
Your words have moved me. I repent. I will change whatever wicked ways i have had. Your heartfelt plea has not fallen on deaf ears. :xoxo:
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

If someone takes offense to me saying that Lindsey would be more of a highlight than Stevie, I can't help that. But it's rather silly to take offense to that. I surely don't take offense if someone says that about Stevie because tastes are subjective.

Saying he would be more of a highlight, is a LOT different than saying he would be "better than the headliner."

But we're not going to get anywhere on that one, I know, because we've been around this same way before.
It's a debate/argument that we can have until the cows come home, or Lindsey releases his next solo album (that was a joke, folks), and still never get anywhere.

Personally, I take offense to someone like Christopher CONSTANTLY calling me out on my opinions towards Stevie's music. I understand that he likes pretty much all of it, but he needs to remember that his tastes are not everyone elses. If he disagrees, constructively post why he disagrees with my assessment, not just type "She's the Queen of Rock and Roll" and then run. But don't call me out and obsess over the fact that every time Street Angel or something else comes up, I express my dismay over the it. It causes more problems, which is something I don't think you understand, Johnny.

(Of course, I have to wonder why you feel the need to tell us how much you hate it, each and EVERY time 'Street Angel' is mentioned... but so be it. ;) )

I have talked to Christopher before about his approach, and he has definitely toned it down.
But you also seem to forget that you're about 10 years older than he is... so maybe I just expect a little more maturity from you, and more understanding of a 15/16 year old and their enthusiasm.
It's a bit unrealistic to expect someone in their early teens to have extremely well-articulated and formulated reasonings behind their opinions and personal preferences. Some in their 20s and 30s aren't even capable of that.

But my suggestion to Christopher would be that, from here on out, don't worry about what anyone else thinks about these songs or about Stevie. I know you probably get ragged on it by your friends and in school, but you feel the way you feel about this music, and at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

If you were the last person on the face of this earth who still liked Stevie Nicks, your opinion would still be the only one that matters... because it's yours.

So if someone slams a Stevie song you like, present the opposing viewpoint. Tell us, when possible, what it is that you like about the song and what draws you to it. And through it all, remain confident in knowing that no one else's opinion matters but your own when it comes to music.

The big thing that needs to be considered is that this is a public message board for people who want to discuss their opnions on the band and its members. When people make remarks about the band and it's music, it simply isn't personal towards someone who likes that particular member. End of story.

I agree, but I still feel the implications of people's tastes not being good enough to know better than to like some of Stevie's music, are a bit much. That's not just expressing an opinion of the music, that's chastizing someone else for having their opinion about it. Basically telling them that they're not smart enough to know better.
It comes across as rude, in my opinion, no matter how it's rationalized... and, as I've said, it breeds resentment.

But I think the new viewpoint that I've applied to CarneVaca, covers you as well... :laugh:
Don't take a single thing dissention ever says, seriously. It's all just a joke, in order to pass the time.

So if dissention says something, laugh at the absurdity of that opinion, giving it no value or weight, and then move on as if it were never even said. :nod: :) :xoxo:

[Serrart]

Why yes. You're talking of "The Grande Esoterica", of course. ;)

How come that's Italian and I don't understand it? :confused:

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

Your words have moved me. I repent. I will change whatever wicked ways i have had. Your heartfelt plea has not fallen on deaf ears. :xoxo:

:p Wise-acre.

I'm not talking about joking around with each other. (Crikey, I must be the world's worst articulator!)
I've been talking about the snide little comments about other people's tastes and intelligence.

I tell ya, if Lindsey was looking to "go insane," he should've just spent some time here! :eek: :laugh:

[amber]

:p Wise-acre.

I'm not talking about joking around with each other. (Crikey, I must be the world's worst articulator!)
I've been talking about the snide little comments about other people's tastes and intelligence.

I tell ya, if Lindsey was looking to "go insane," he should've just spent some time here! :eek: :laugh:
I wasn't being sarcastic. Although in real life, people often think i am when i'm not, too, so it's ok. I guess i have trouble "doing" sincerity? :laugh: So re-read my post, this time taking my words seriously. Oh, did you see I got OSOTM? (they didn't have RAL)
Amber

[face of glass]

How come that's Italian and I don't understand it?
"Esoteric" to me: hidden, secret, difficult to approach (except for those with 'the know', 'the connection', or whatever).
Posts (that you've most probably already seen) for further reference:
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=190044&postcount=239
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=191071&postcount=414
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=191147&postcount=432

Yeah, well. My tongue likes to twist the words like that these days. Apologies to you for me bastardising your beautiful language. Let us Europeans stick together, no matter what our tastes are. :) Johnny, after all, is to this board what USA is to the rest of the world. ;)

[Johnny Stew]

I wasn't being sarcastic. Although in real life, people often think i am when i'm not, too, so it's ok. I guess i have trouble "doing" sincerity? :laugh: So re-read my post, this time taking my words seriously. Oh, did you see I got OSOTM? (they didn't have RAL)
Amber

Oops! I thought you were... not really being sarcastic... but throwing some good-natured ribbing my way. :o

Since that wasn't the case, then what you said was very sweet and I appreciate it. :) :xoxo:

I did see that you picked up 'OSOTM'! Very cool. :D
What do you think of it so far?
It definitely takes a while to grow on some folks, while others never warm up to it. I think that mainly has to do with the production-style, but certainly has to do with the subject matter of a few of the songs, too.

Even my own view of it had dimmed somewhat over the years, but when I want back and listened to it all the way through the other day, I remembered so many of the things that I had loved about it.

Stevie calls it her "magic album," and I can see why that is. 'Mirror' has a very ethereal... almost ephemeral... quality about it. It's hard to put your finger on exactly what "it" is, because it slips away from you like those grains of sand Lindsey talks about in "Oh Diane."

[dissention]

(Of course, I have to wonder why you feel the need to tell us how much you hate it, each and EVERY time 'Street Angel' is mentioned... but so be it. ;) )

I also have to wonder why the same people praise it to the high heavens every time it comes up. ;)

I have talked to Christopher before about his approach, and he has definitely toned it down.
But you also seem to forget that you're about 10 years older than he is... so maybe I just expect a little more maturity from you, and more understanding of a 15/16 year old and their enthusiasm.
It's a bit unrealistic to expect someone in their early teens to have extremely well-articulated and formulated reasonings behind their opinions and personal preferences. Some in their 20s and 30s aren't even capable of that.

But my suggestion to Christopher would be that, from here on out, don't worry about what anyone else thinks about these songs or about Stevie. I know you probably get ragged on it by your friends and in school, but you feel the way you feel about this music, and at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

You're right, but I have no idea how old he is. But when I look at the young people who post on this board, most of them are just as articulate as the adults on here. And you gave him some good advice.

I agree, but I still feel the implications of people's tastes not being good enough to know better than to like some of Stevie's music, are a bit much. That's not just expressing an opinion of the music, that's chastizing someone else for having their opinion about it. Basically telling them that they're not smart enough to know better.
It's comes across as rude, in my opinion, no matter how it's rationalized... and, as I've said, it breeds resentment.

If I imply that, it most certainly isn't intentional. I think I've even said time and time again in this very thread that you like who like, you dislike who you dislike. Simple as that. But I must be too busy putting Lindsey on a pedestal to notice my own actions. :p :laugh:

But I think the new viewpoint that I've applied to CarneVaca, covers you as well...
Don't take a single thing dissention ever says, seriously. It's all just a joke, in order to pass the time.

So if dissention says something, laugh at the absurdity of that opinion, giving it no value or weight, and then move on as if it were never even said. :nod: :) :xoxo:

Story of my life, Le Stew. :laugh: :wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Johnny, after all, is to this board what USA is to the rest of the world. ;)

Hmm... knowing how the rest of the world tends to view the USA, I'm not sure I like that analogy! :eek: :laugh:

Can't I be the U.N. instead? ;)

[Johnny Stew]

I also have to wonder why the same people praise it to the high heavens every time it comes up. ;)

My guess is to balance out all the dissing it gets. ;) :)


You're right, but I have no idea how old he is. But when I look at the young people who post on this board, most of them are just as articulate as the adults on here. And you gave him some good advice.

He's mentioned his age/being in high school, on many occasions, so I figured you knew by now.
And certainly many teenagers can be extremely adept at articulating themselves (such as Jason T. is, and as Josh2003 was when he was that age), but many others are not. So it's up to us to be the mature ones, while they're finding their voice, and to try not to squash their enthusiasm in the meantime.


If I imply that, it most certainly isn't intentional. I think I've even said time and time again in this very thread that you like who like, you dislike who you dislike. Simple as that. But I must be too busy putting Lindsey on a pedestal to notice my own actions. :p :laugh:

Well, the gleaming light coming from his halo, can be a bit blinding at times. ;) :laugh: :laugh:

[amber]

Oops! I thought you were... not really being sarcastic... but throwing some good-natured ribbing my way. :o

Since that wasn't the case, then what you said was very sweet and I appreciate it. :) :xoxo:

I did see that you picked up 'OSOTM'! Very cool. :D
What do you think of it so far?
It definitely takes a while to grow on some folks, while others never warm up to it. I think that mainly has to do with the production-style, but certainly has to do with the subject matter of a few of the songs, too.

Even my own view of it had dimmed somewhat over the years, but when I want back and listened to it all the way through the other day, I remembered so many of the things that I had loved about it.


Stevie calls it her "magic album," and I can see why that is. 'Mirror' has a very ethereal... almost ephemeral... quality about it. It's hard to put your finger on exactly what "it" is, because it slips away from you like those grains of sand Lindsey talks about in "Oh Diane."
It's ok. I like the production. But I haven't noticed many dramatic vocals from Stevie (Except Room on Fire and Whole lotta, which i already knew from Timespace) so that kinda bums me out. So far my favorite is Cry Wolf, which i noticed Stevie didn't write. I don't think I'm gonna like Alice and Juliet as much as everyone else (major key?). I do like the lyrics on this album, I think they are Stevie plus. In that way it is magical. I'm sure it will grow on me more - actually, I like it but in a backround way...a really good backround way. It doesn't look like it's gonna be one of my "super singin'" albums, and that is what i like to do with Stevie...We'll see :D
AMber

[Serrart]

"Esoteric" to me: hidden, secret, difficult to approach (except for those with 'the know', 'the connection', or whatever).
Posts (that you've most probably already seen) for further reference:
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=190044&postcount=239
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=191071&postcount=414
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=191147&postcount=432

Yeah, well. My tongue likes to twist the words like that these days. Apologies to you for me bastardising your beautiful language. Let us Europeans stick together, no matter what our tastes are. :) Johnny, after all, is to this board what USA is to the rest of the world. ;)

Thanks for the links Gaius, I just didn't remember your neologism (by the way, I like it :thumbsup: ). I don't see all this esoterism in her production, maybe a lot of mysticism but mostly the imagery of her inner world, that has its own rules, as anybody else's inner worlds, ours included. :)

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

I did see that you picked up 'OSOTM'! Very cool. :D
What do you think of it so far?
It definitely takes a while to grow on some folks, while others never warm up to it. I think that mainly has to do with the production-style, but certainly has to do with the subject matter of a few of the songs, too.

Even my own view of it had dimmed somewhat over the years, but when I want back and listened to it all the way through the other day, I remembered so many of the things that I had loved about it.

Stevie calls it her "magic album," and I can see why that is. 'Mirror' has a very ethereal... almost ephemeral... quality about it. It's hard to put your finger on exactly what "it" is, because it slips away from you like those grains of sand Lindsey talks about in "Oh Diane."

Amber... don't worry about responding to the above.
I had noticed on the Chit-Chat Forum that you had bought 'OSOTM,' but hadn't noticed that you had posted your thoughts on it in the " OSOTM - break down" thread until just now. :o

You touched upon something interesting in your comments there, by the way.
For some strange reason, 'Mirror' IS a great album to listen to when it's raining. :nod:

[Johnny Stew]

It's ok. I like the production. But I haven't noticed many dramatic vocals from Stevie (Except Room on Fire and Whole lotta, which i already knew from Timespace) so that kinda bums me out. So far my favorite is Cry Wolf, which i noticed Stevie didn't write. I don't think I'm gonna like Alice and Juliet as much as everyone else (major key?). I do like the lyrics on this album, I think they are Stevie plus. In that way it is magical. I'm sure it will grow on me more - actually, I like it but in a backround way...a really good backround way. It doesn't look like it's gonna be one of my "super singin'" albums, and that is what i like to do with Stevie...We'll see :D
AMber


Oops! We were posting at roughly the same time.
Sorry about that! But thanks for reiterating your thoughts on the album. :)

[amber]

Amber... don't worry about responding to the above.
I had noticed on the Chit-Chat Forum that you had bought 'OSOTM,' but hadn't noticed that you had posted your thoughts on it in the " OSOTM - break down" thread until just now. :o

You touched upon something interesting in your comments there, by the way.
For some strange reason, 'Mirror' IS a great album to listen to when it's raining. :nod:
Cause it's good, but quiet, for Stevie. And otherworldy. It's kind of a strange album, to me. I'm looking forward to getting to know it better.
AMber

[amber]

For the Week of August 12, 2004

The Aquarium Age is a report on the general astrological patterns of the coming week for all signs, not just Aquariums.



This week, the planets stir a restless wind, turning hearts and minds antsy with agitation, making it hard to maintain regular routines or settle into a calm, easy attitude. A portion of this restive force is born from the normal frustration of Mercury retrograde, which began on Monday. But a larger part is the result of a clash between Uranus and Mars, both of which are interacting with Mercury, and neither enjoy being constrained by retrograde Mercury in Virgo’s plodding devotion to the details of the past. On a personal level, the collision of these conflicting forces translates into quarrelsome mindsets and short tempers. From the collective perspective, the heat increases in those already too hot spots of the world. As always, compassion will serve as the best remedy for the turbulence, so even if being kind isn't easy, do your best—there's no need to contribute to the unrest.

Uranus opposes that retrograde Mercury producing a peculiar tension that tends to search for release through hasty action or quick conclusions. Uranus-Mercury contacts are famous for brilliant, revolutionary ideas, but this week, those intellectual insights are likely to be flooded with contradiction, and the result is confusion instead of clarity.

But that's not the crux of this week's restlessness. The real problem is Mars. Mars begins an opposition to Uranus today, and by the weekend Mars also forms a conjunction with Mercury. (Oy—it is as convoluted as it sounds.) Mars-Uranus anything thrives on action, and because of that their interactions are often related to accidents, especially mishaps caused by haste or frustration. Try not to give in to the kind of impatience that breeds carelessness. If you get stuck in traffic, surrender to the moment, and soothe that need to move. A Mars-Mercury conjunction feeds a picky desire to focus on what's wrong instead of what's right. This conjunction also amps up the bent toward rash behavior, especially if you're counting on action to solve the problem. Remember, we're in a retrograde, which means action may not be the wisest choice. This entire Mercury/Mars/Uranus bundle irritates nervous systems, and because this pattern builds all week and spills over into next week, we can expect a pretty bumpy ride, personal and collective.

Fortunately, Uranus trines Venus, and while this interaction is infamous for amorous eccentricity, it is just as well known for providing artistic inspiration. So channel the restless currents of the week into creative pursuits, and you'll not only experience the ability to push boundaries and techniques, but you'll also find a positive way to avoid getting snagged by the intensity.

[diamondsnake]

:rolleyes: :laugh:

This is what I find ridiculous, and I'm sure Le Stew would agree with me.

I make no bones about being a huge Lindsey fan. Just like a lot of other people on this board, I started off as a huge Stevie fan and then "converted." I do think he's a genius, just as I think Stevie is genius when it comes to lyrics and vocals.

I love both Lindsey and Stevie, Lindsey more, but of course they're both going to have material that I simply do not care for. In the case of Stevie, she's put out a lot more material over the years than Lindsey, so she's more than likely going to have more stuff that I dislike, namely SA, some of RAL, and her Tango stuff. Now, as much as I like Stevie, every time anyone expresses any sort of criticism towards her, they're shot down and considered crazy.

Fact is, not everything she's done is great, IMO. I think she gets stuck in lots of ruts and just stews in the same thing for ages when it comes to her music. She isn't adventurous and always sticks with the same formula; she's too safe and wants to be too commerical too often. Doesn't change the quality of the lyrics or the quality of her voice, but it can get a bit rote for me. I still love *most* of it, but there's just some stuff that I find terrible. Doesn't make me any less of a fan, whether you agree or not. Then you have Lindsey, who doesn't stick to any formula. He does what he wants and doesn't hold back. Sometimes it makes for stellar music, sometimes not. But it's his willingness to experiment and the quality of it all that I find so appealing.

To me, when I look at Stevie's music, I see a pattern to it. With each progressive album, she caters more and more to public tastes, the pinnacle being the Street Angel album which was so devoid of any emotion that I can't bear listening to it. I can't blame her for wanting to sell tons of records, but I just wish she'd challenge herself more. We all know she can do it, just look at Illume; one of her most out-of-left-field songs. She needs to breathe more life into her music, which I submit she can based on parts of TISL and SYW.

There are plenty of things I don't like about Lindsey. He mumbles too many lyrics, gets a bit too self-indulgent (Street of Dreams and Come), goes overboard on the production sometimes, and noodles too much on some songs (Bleed To Love Her...ugh). But, just like with Stevie, it doesn't make the music necessarily bad. Almost every song of theirs has at least one redeeming value (I said almost, I didn't let WISYA or some of those GOS songs off the hook) because they're the ones at the wheel.

I think a lot of people around here simply forget why we're all here: because we're fans of this band. But just because we're fans, we don't have to worship at the Temple of La Nicks or the Temple of Liddy Buck. We don't have to throw around labels like "The Queen of Rock" to prove our points because, in all honesty, labels like those are subjective and just end up turning people off. It makes people look like blind worshippers, which I'm sure they're not, and has no service in these discussions. As much as I'd love to, I don't trot around the board proclaiming Lindsey "The King of All Music." Why? Because it's all subjective and just because I love Lindsey, it doesn't mean others do. I accept that, even though there are fans of both Stevie and Lindsey who are simply dead-set against giving the other credit for anything. It's absurd and provides for much comic relief.

People like who they like, it's as simple as that and everyone needs to accept that. Just because someone says some Stevie material is awful or because they say Law and Order is a terrible excuse for an album, or even if they make some comment or barb about the work of some band members, it doesn't give everyone free reign to belittle those opinions by labeling someone as a Stevie or Lindsey "hater." I see a lot of people complain about how they're so sick of the negative comments and blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that any criticism can be construed as negative and they're the ones dwelling ont he negative when they choose to post posts completely relating to what they see as negativity from others.

What you've done with your post above, Christopher, is belittle fans of Lindsey by making it seem as if they think he's a god. He's not, he's a musician. He has no title like King or Prince, he's just a freaking musician. To say that his fans put him on a pedestal and then turn around and call Stevie a Queen is, in my opinion, hypocritical and short-sighted.

Like who you like, enjoy the music, and discuss the music however you feel you need to discuss it.

[/end rant] :laugh:

I have belittled fans of Lindsey?... if I did then you are guilty of the same thing. I don't know how many times you have talked about how Stevie fans "worship their Queen". This is just plain not true. I don't worship her- I just think she is really talented and everything is just better when I hear her warm voice and listen to her lyrics.

And I think most of what I am saying is true. Lindsey fans seem to be more vocal on this board about what a "genius" he is. In fact, I was basically attacked a few months ago when I started a post stating I just couldn't apreciate some of his songs on Tusk. Most people told me I had a lot of growing up to do and I didn't appreciate true art. My opinion meant nothing and everyone else was so artsy and much smarter then I was because they liked his Tusk songs.

Now if I started a smimilar thread about Stevie's songs on any album many people would say "The Klonopin era- her writting sucked!" or "Oh yeah, that album is so overrated", etc. The thread would not have caused a stink like the mere mention that I didn't care for a few songs Lindsey wrote.

[diamondsnake]

He's mentioned his age/being in high school, on many occasions, so I figured you knew by now.
And certainly many teenagers can be extremely adept at articulating themselves (such as Jason T. is, and as Josh2003 was when he was that age), but many others are not. So it's up to us to be the mature ones, while they're finding their voice, and to try not to squash their enthusiasm in the meantime.


No offense Johnny, but if this is just dissention's personality then I really don't want him/her to treat me any other way. I know I am the "baby" on the board and the youngest here, but I don't want any special treatment because of that. I admit all the time that I am blinded by Stevie on this board. And obviously this early in the game I have not had time to focus on the negative sides to her music. Still I think I can tell a good song from a bad song. I really don't like Thrown Down and Loves a Hard Game to Play. Those are Stevie songs! Maybe I just haven't been a fan for decades (like may of you) and have not had time to nitpick on the little things (example- the word Chimpanzee)

[diamondsnake]

I've just tried to stick up for the Ledgies who've felt they were being pushed down or belittled. The ones who eventually leave because they're tired of being made to feel like fools.

I really appreciate this Johnny and you're right- I am tired of being made a fool of by one person in paticular. But I don't think I could ever leave this board. I need a place to talk about Stevie and my friends at school only know about "that right winged dove song???"

[sparky]

In fact, I was basically attacked a few months ago when I started a post stating I just couldn't apreciate some of his songs on Tusk. Most people told me I had a lot of growing up to do and I didn't appreciate true art. My opinion meant nothing and everyone else was so artsy and much smarter then I was because they liked his Tusk songs.

So true ! I remember it vividly. I think the reaction was as much about your delivery as your message. But I feel the same way, and have never been shy about saying it. Some of those Tusk songs of his make me feel like I am being root canaled without a shot or laughing gas.

But, you know, what are you gonna do ? Verbal sparring and discussion is fun and good for us. You're learning fast - and these are some tough rooms, dude.

[sparky]

Even though I am a mere spectator in this latest volley, I must comment. The discussion is simply too rich.


I don't feel that I or anyone else should have to censor what they say because it may or may not be construed as snide or rude.

Thank GOD. Where would I be without your possibly interpreted as snide or rude comments ? Far less amused, that's where.

(Of course, I have to wonder why you feel the need to tell us how much you hate it, each and EVERY time 'Street Angel' is mentioned... but so be it. )

Of course I cannot speak for Dissention, and don't trash the record nearly as often...but I hoot and holler about it because it is so completely disappointing and out of wack on so many levels. I still haven't gotten over it :laugh:

I may be in the minority, but I mind neither the fawning over nor the shredding of any artist's work. Actually, what I want to know is WHY a person feels that way. And the more detailed and specific they can get about it, the better. If someone says "That song is a vile stain on music history," well, okay, explain why. If you're gonna talk tough, back it up. The music ? The performance ? The production ? The writing ? Ditto "The Best Song Ever Written". Details. Where else are we going to find other freaks like us who even give a second thought as to why they like or dislike this band's music ?
This is about exchange of ideas, as far as I am concerned. It ain't Meet The Press, but it does something for me.

As far as character assassination about differing tastes goes...eh, haven't seen much of that. What I do see is mostly lighthearted and fun. The outright attack is very rare, and if a qualifying statement about joking, sarcasm, or fascetiousness is required so people's feelings aren't hurt...man, are we that much of a society of walking open wounds ? If I need a Xanax because someone disses Chiffonheads in general, I don't need a message board or an apology, I need to get my behind to a shrink. Fast.

I like spirited and even outrageous opinions. I'm always happy to hear more...and the motivations behind them. Snide, worshipful, grouchy, awestruck. All are good if communicated with precision.

[Johnny Stew]

I may be in the minority, but I mind neither the fawning over nor the shredding of any artist's work. Actually, what I want to know is WHY a person feels that way. And the more detailed and specific they can get about it, the better. If someone says "That song is a vile stain on music history," well, okay, explain why. If you're gonna talk tough, back it up. The music ? The performance ? The production ? The writing ? Ditto "The Best Song Ever Written". Details. Where else are we going to find other freaks like us who even give a second thought as to why they like or dislike this band's music ?
This is about exchange of ideas, as far as I am concerned. It ain't Meet The Press, but it does something for me.

As far as character assassination about differing tastes goes...eh, haven't seen much of that. What I do see is mostly lighthearted and fun. The outright attack is very rare, and if a qualifying statement about joking, sarcasm, or fascetiousness is required so people's feelings aren't hurt...man, are we that much of a society of walking open wounds ? If I need a Xanax because someone disses Chiffonheads in general, I don't need a message board or an apology, I need to get my behind to a shrink. Fast.

I like spirited and even outrageous opinions. I'm always happy to hear more...and the motivations behind them. Snide, worshipful, grouchy, awestruck. All are good if communicated with precision.

I'm with you, in that I do love the spirited debates and the varying opinions (even when I vehemently disagree with certain opinions).

But I only ask that we're all just a little more considerate of each other.

We have a lot of people here... a lot of different ages, backgrounds, ethnicities, sensibilities, etc.... and it doesn't hurt to be respectful of each other's differences. Most especially until you've talked with someone long enough to suss out their personality and their sense of humour. There are some people I definitely feel comfortable joking with, because I trust that they know my sense of humour now. There are others that I don't joke around with, because we haven't established an understanding yet.

Not everyone is tough and hardened, and we shouldn't force them to be. It shouldn't have to be a situation where people are either forced to play hardball, or leave. Room should be made for the more sensitive people too.

And the more sensitive people should remember that some people are always going to come across as harsh. But don't let it get to you in any situation other than those that really affect your life. And what some faceless stranger says on a message board isn't one of those situations.

I realize that I am often harder on the more critical people... not because they're critical, but because of the ways in which they sometimes interact with other Ledgies. And I think it's because I sometimes expect more out of certain people.
And then sometimes I feel like I have to be harder on them, because they ignore the gentler approach. :shrug:

I know these aren't my boards, but as a moderator here... and as a fan, in general... I want to see as many people as possible, posting here and enjoying their time here. It should be inclusive, not exclusive.
So I hate hearing things like, "I don't post on The Ledge anymore, because people made me feel like an idiot for my opinion," or "because people were so bitchy to me."

So, yeah, I think a little tact and a little respect go a long way. :)

[dissention]

Thank GOD. Where would I be without your possibly interpreted as snide or rude comments ? Far less amused, that's where.


:laugh: :xoxo:

It's only a matter of time before I apply that tampons and toothpaste line to Stevie somehow. ;)

[cliffdweller]

You mean speaking from a pure Dissention's entertainment standpoint. ;) From mine I'd say Stevie, Rolling Stones, U2, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews Band.

Romy

David Bowie = Best concert I've ever been too, and believe me, I've been to A LOT of live shows. He is amazing, and at his age too, I just can't believe how f*cking good he still is.

[dissention]

David Bowie = Best concert I've ever been too, and believe me, I've been to A LOT of live shows. He is amazing, and at his age too, I just can't believe how f*cking good he still is.

:nod:

I saw him four times in the nineties and he's even better now than he was then. He just gets better and better as time passes. Plus, his past two albums have been phenomenal. Personally, I was shocked that he put out Heathen and less than a year later, he put out Reality. He's on a roll!!! :xoxo:

[cliffdweller]

Just forget the whole solo thing!

No way!! I likes my Stevie solo albums!! Are you kidding me? Give up albums chock full of Stevie only, with songs either unintended for Fleetwood Mac or rejected by F.M.? I want to hear those songs! How would they ever see the light of day?

[cliffdweller]

:nod: Personally, I was shocked that he put out Heathen and less than a year later, he put out Reality. He's on a roll!!! :xoxo:

I LOVE that he did that. What a master. And Reality took up where Heathen left off and is even more amazing.

[dissention]

I LOVE that he did that. What a master. And Reality took up where Heathen left off and is even more amazing.

I was surprised that he got it out so quickly because for almost the whole year between the two, he was touring for Heathen. Hopefully he has something up his sleeve and we'll get a new album by Christmas. ;) :D

[ladystardust]

I LOVE that he did that. What a master. And Reality took up where Heathen left off and is even more amazing.

Of course I have to put in my two cents... and agree with cliffdweller. Master indeed. I really think (after being a devoted fan for more than half of my life now), that he's seeing another peak in his career. I almost want to say he's "hitting his stride" but it's yet another stride in my opinion. He's such a talented artist, that I think he's just entering another stage of his creative (and personal) life.

[cliffdweller]

I was surprised that he got it out so quickly because for almost the whole year between the two, he was touring for Heathen.

This doesn't surprise me at all. Remember the "emergency heart surgery" thread? You may have been the one who started it! Anyway, all I can think of is that part in the article that relayed David's urgency to get back on the road right after the surgery. I can just imagine him dressed in a hospital gown with I.V. tubes coming out of him and people trying to hold him back as he struggles to get out of bed and back on the road :laugh:. The man is unstoppable!

[ladystardust]

This doesn't surprise me at all. Remember the "emergency heart surgery" thread? You may have been the one who started it! Anyway, all I can think of is that part in the article that relayed David's urgency to get back on the road right after the surgery. I can just imagine him dressed in a hospital gown with I.V. tubes coming out of him and people trying to hold him back as he struggles to get out of bed and back on the road :laugh:. The man is unstoppable!


..... and happy - I've never seen him smiling so much.

[cliffdweller]

This much is true.

[diamondsnake]

No way!! I likes my Stevie solo albums!! Are you kidding me? Give up albums chock full of Stevie only, with songs either unintended for Fleetwood Mac or rejected by F.M.? I want to hear those songs! How would they ever see the light of day?

Oh me too, I think I almost prefer solo albums. I was just saying, as afar as business goes it would make sense for them to just work as a band and not do any more solo albums. But I love the solo records because there are tons of Stevie songs and they have a different feel then Mac music.

[Claripup]

:laugh: :xoxo:

It's only a matter of time before I apply that tampons and toothpaste line to Stevie somehow. ;)


What line is that then?? :p

[GateandGarden]

:laugh: :xoxo:

It's only a matter of time before I apply that tampons and toothpaste line to Stevie somehow. ;)Yes, I'll be looking forward to that.
:nod:

Hillary

[Hippocampus]

David Bowie = Best concert I've ever been too, and believe me, I've been to A LOT of live shows. He is amazing, and at his age too, I just can't believe how f*cking good he still is.


I've recently listened to a bootleg of one of his 2004 shows (Austin TX) and while I did enjoy it, I thought his vocals weren't much to write home about. Just adequate. So what makes him so great? The music? The stage presence? The sum of the parts? Enquiring minds want to know :)

[GoldDustGypsy03]

We'll get another album, it's all in the matter of time :)