You Go Al S.!!!!!!!!!!

[strandinthewind]

I JUST LOVE HIM SOMETIMES!!!!!!
______________________________________________________________

If you were not turned to C-Span or PBS early in the evening last night, you probably did not see Al Sharpton’s speech. Think what you want of him, but he is a fiery orator, got the crowd going, & was brave enough to go off the DNC script & actually take Bush on by name. According to Tucker Carlson (you can judge reliability), the Dems did not want him to speak at all, but he said that he was either going to speak on the floor or speak outside chained to the door of the convention. I copied some choice quotes from CNN’s site & have the link to the full transcript of the speech at the bottom.

On Iraq:

We did it with a go-it-alone foreign policy based on flawed intelligence. We were told that we were going to Iraq because there were weapons of mass destruction. We've lost hundreds of soldiers. We've spent $200 billion dollars at a time when we had record state deficits. And when it became clear that there were no weapons, they changed the premise for the war and said: No, we went because of other reasons.

If I told you tonight, "Let's leave the FleetCenter, we're in danger," and when you get outside, you ask me, Reverend Al, "What is the danger?" and I say, "It don't matter. We just needed some fresh air," I have misled you and we were misled.

On Bush’s speech to the Urban League:

Mr. President, as I close, Mr. President, I heard you say Friday that you had questions for voters, particularly African- American voters. And you asked the question: Did the Democratic Party take us for granted? Well, I have raised questions. But let me answer your question.

You said the Republican Party was the party of Lincoln and Frederick Douglass. It is true that Mr. Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, after which there was a commitment to give 40 acres and a mule.

That's where the argument, to this day, of reparations starts. We never got the 40 acres. We went all the way to Herbert Hoover, and we never got the 40 acres.

We didn't get the mule. So we decided we'd ride this donkey as far as it would take us.

Mr. President, you said would we have more leverage if both parties got our votes, but we didn't come this far playing political games. It was those that earned our vote that got our vote. We got the Civil Rights Act under a Democrat. We got the Voting Rights Act under a Democrat. We got the right to organize under Democrats.

Mr. President, the reason we are fighting so hard, the reason we took Florida so seriously, is our right to vote wasn't gained because of our age. Our vote was soaked in the blood of martyrs, soaked in the blood of Goodman, Chaney and Schwerner, soaked in the blood of four little girls in Birmingham. This vote is sacred to us.

This vote can't be bargained away.

This vote can't be given away.

Mr. President, in all due respect, Mr. President, read my lips: Our vote is not for sale.

Closing, drawing on a 9/11 radio tribute where “America the Beautiful” was played:

As you know, we lost Ray a few weeks ago, but I sat there that morning and listened to Ray sing through those speakers, "Oh beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountains' majesty across the fruited plain."

And it occurred to me as I heard Ray singing, that Ray wasn't singing about what he knew, because Ray had been blind since he was a child. He hadn't seen many purple mountains. He hadn't seen many fruited plains. He was singing about what he believed to be.

Mr. President, we love America, not because all of us have seen the beauty all the time.

But we believed if we kept on working, if we kept on marching, if we kept on voting, if we kept on believing, we would make America beautiful for everybody.

Starting in November, let's make America beautiful again.

http://us.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/28/dems.sharpton.transcript/index.html

[Patti]

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, I turned the TV on right as his speech was ending. I had on MSNBC and they "pulled the plug" on him. Chris Matthews was going on ad infinitum about how it was so bad what Sharpton had done. I used to kind of like Matthews but I think he has been HORRID during this convention, asking stupid questions, trying to be provocative and failing horribly IMO. But I digress...

I think it's great that Reverend Al had the cojones to stand up there and be direct!

[CarneVaca]

That Al Charla... I mean, Sharpton, delivering one of the better speeches says something about this sorry bunch. My favorite line was when he said if Bush had been president during Brown v. Board of Education, Clarence Thomas would not have been allowed to go to law school. Way to call that moron from Texas a racist!

But Al fudged a little:

It was those that earned our vote that got our vote. We got the Civil Rights Act under a Democrat.

Rev. Al, you'd better check those records again. True, the act passed under a Democrat, but I bet you know that proportionaly more Republicans than Democrats voted to pass it.

Regardless, I love that he gave them one speech for the teleprompter and delivered another. You go, Al!

[darklinensuit]

I missed it but even the conservative pundits I saw commended him for going off-script.

- Jake

[Jason T.]

It was an amazing speech without doubt. He's always been one to get a message out, but last night he did it...and then some. It was great.

He's one of the great Democrats of our time. :thumbsup:

[estranged4life]

I missed it but even the conservative pundits I saw commended him for going off-script.

- Jake

Network News channels had some Democrats on last night who said "Sharpton has no pull" at all in the DNC even though he gives great speeches...Maybe he showed 'em up & thus the jealousy? Who knows.

I missed Sharpton's speech cause I was watching the DNC chairperson (Cannot recall the guys name at this moment) on the "O'Really Factor" since Wes Clark snubbed "O'Really" to appear on the "Larry Fling" show.

[CarneVaca]

Indeed, Sharpton has no pull. Let's face it, the man is a charlatan. It's too bad. He has a wonderful orating gift, and he is right about most issues, more right than the party bosses, to be sure. But his credibility will always be in question.

[DeeGeMe]

Al kicked major ass. They gave him 6 minutes and had pre-approved his speech. He went off-message and took up 20+ minutes! It was wonderful. He said what needed to be said. I was yelling "Preach it Brother Al--Preach it!" at the TV last night. The pundits were all in a tizzy--I still can't believe MSNBC & Chris Matthews had the audacity to cut him off! Trust me, I fired off an angry e-mail to them today about it too.

[estranged4life]

Al kicked major ass. They gave him 6 minutes and had pre-approved his speech. He went off-message and took up 20+ minutes! It was wonderful. He said what needed to be said. I was yelling "Preach it Brother Al--Preach it!" at the TV last night. The pundits were all in a tizzy--I still can't believe MSNBC & Chris Matthews had the audacity to cut him off! Trust me, I fired off an angry e-mail to them today about it too.

watched MSNBC since it replaced the CNN's on our cable system, But with Comedy Central why bother watchin' the news networks? Jon Stewart's show does a "great" job of covering the DNC :lol:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

CNN aired the whole speech... i thought it was great speech, a lot of emotion in his speech for sure...

A lot of ppl were a little put off guard with it, as the DNC was supposed to be positive and not much Bush bashing so to speak...and him calling the president out was great IMO...

"MR PRESIDENT!!"

lol...priceless

I think CNN has provided the best coverage of this convention...they even aired John Mellancamp's performance of "Small town" last night, well MOST of it...he did great btw...and CNN does a great job of covering a Democratic festival but at the same time trying to remain non-partisan...Larry King has Bob Dole on as a guest each night (and I like Bob Dole a lot)..and does some great interviews, a lot of Larry's democratic guests seem to love Bob as a person as well...and Bob is very light hearted, ya know, he is great friends with many democrats even tho he disagrees with them on most issues...and he has a great sense of humor about the whole thing

Chris

[MikeVielhaber]

I JUST LOVE HIM SOMETIMES!!!!!!
______________________________________________________________

If you were not turned to C-Span or PBS early in the evening last night, you probably did not see Al Sharpton’s speech. Think what you want of him, but he is a fiery orator, got the crowd going, & was brave enough to go off the DNC script & actually take Bush on by name. According to Tucker Carlson (you can judge reliability), the Dems did not want him to speak at all, but he said that he was either going to speak on the floor or speak outside chained to the door of the convention. I copied some choice quotes from CNN’s site & have the link to the full transcript of the speech at the bottom.

On Iraq:

We did it with a go-it-alone foreign policy based on flawed intelligence. We were told that we were going to Iraq because there were weapons of mass destruction. We've lost hundreds of soldiers. We've spent $200 billion dollars at a time when we had record state deficits. And when it became clear that there were no weapons, they changed the premise for the war and said: No, we went because of other reasons.

If I told you tonight, "Let's leave the FleetCenter, we're in danger," and when you get outside, you ask me, Reverend Al, "What is the danger?" and I say, "It don't matter. We just needed some fresh air," I have misled you and we were misled.

On Bush’s speech to the Urban League:

Mr. President, as I close, Mr. President, I heard you say Friday that you had questions for voters, particularly African- American voters. And you asked the question: Did the Democratic Party take us for granted? Well, I have raised questions. But let me answer your question.

You said the Republican Party was the party of Lincoln and Frederick Douglass. It is true that Mr. Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, after which there was a commitment to give 40 acres and a mule.

That's where the argument, to this day, of reparations starts. We never got the 40 acres. We went all the way to Herbert Hoover, and we never got the 40 acres.

We didn't get the mule. So we decided we'd ride this donkey as far as it would take us.

Mr. President, you said would we have more leverage if both parties got our votes, but we didn't come this far playing political games. It was those that earned our vote that got our vote. We got the Civil Rights Act under a Democrat. We got the Voting Rights Act under a Democrat. We got the right to organize under Democrats.

Mr. President, the reason we are fighting so hard, the reason we took Florida so seriously, is our right to vote wasn't gained because of our age. Our vote was soaked in the blood of martyrs, soaked in the blood of Goodman, Chaney and Schwerner, soaked in the blood of four little girls in Birmingham. This vote is sacred to us.

This vote can't be bargained away.

This vote can't be given away.

Mr. President, in all due respect, Mr. President, read my lips: Our vote is not for sale.

Closing, drawing on a 9/11 radio tribute where “America the Beautiful” was played:

As you know, we lost Ray a few weeks ago, but I sat there that morning and listened to Ray sing through those speakers, "Oh beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountains' majesty across the fruited plain."

And it occurred to me as I heard Ray singing, that Ray wasn't singing about what he knew, because Ray had been blind since he was a child. He hadn't seen many purple mountains. He hadn't seen many fruited plains. He was singing about what he believed to be.

Mr. President, we love America, not because all of us have seen the beauty all the time.

But we believed if we kept on working, if we kept on marching, if we kept on voting, if we kept on believing, we would make America beautiful for everybody.

Starting in November, let's make America beautiful again.

http://us.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/28/dems.sharpton.transcript/index.html
screw al shorpton....let the people do what they want with their vote. it's not up to him. the demcrats absolutely take advantage of the african american vote. they take it for granted.

[Johnny Stew]

screw al shorpton....let the people do what they want with their vote. it's not up to him. the demcrats absolutely take advantage of the african american vote. they take it for granted.

I personally think the Democratic party stands out because they don't take African-Americans for granted.
They recognize them as a very important community, and they embrace them.

[DeeGeMe]

The Democrats embrace everybody--and that's why the Repugs hate us. They believe in the politics of division and we believe in the politics of inclusion.

[gldstwmn]

Network News channels had some Democrats on last night who said "Sharpton has no pull" at all in the DNC even though he gives great speeches...Maybe he showed 'em up & thus the jealousy? Who knows.


You have to remember those "Network Democrats" ususally aren't Democrats at all. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

screw al shorpton....let the people do what they want with their vote. it's not up to him. the demcrats absolutely take advantage of the african american vote. they take it for granted.

As opposed to Katherine Harris and the Republican party who purged them from the voter rolls in 2000?
What's your party doing for them MikeVielhaber? Name one thing your party has EVER done for African Americans. I'm waiting.

[dissention]

According to Tucker Carlson (you can judge reliability), the Dems did not want him to speak at all, but he said that he was either going to speak on the floor or speak outside chained to the door of the convention.

Tucker Carlson is a turd. Period.

[CarneVaca]

screw al shorpton....let the people do what they want with their vote. it's not up to him. the demcrats absolutely take advantage of the african american vote. they take it for granted.

What's your complaint exactly? It's a party convention. The idea is to get people to vote for the party.

Or do you just think the black guy shouldn't have been allowed to speak?

[dissention]

screw al shorpton....let the people do what they want with their vote. it's not up to him. the demcrats absolutely take advantage of the african american vote. they take it for granted.

Bull****. ;)

Tell me what the Republicans did for blacks. Nothing. Sharpton was amazing and he was dead-on. I see you are not refuting anything he said with facts. If you want to talk about votes being taken for granted, let's talk about how the Rpeublicans take the southern vote for granted. :wavey: Virginia and the Carolinas are already in the bag, don't you worry.

[CarneVaca]

I personally think the Democratic party stands out because they don't take African-Americans for granted.
They recognize them as a very important community, and they embrace them.

You're right, Johnny. They just take the liberals for granted. They think that because they aren't quite as bad as the Repugnants, that we should vote for them. To them, I eloquently extend my middle finger.

[CarneVaca]

As opposed to Katherine Harris and the Republican party who purged them from the voter rolls in 2000?
What's your party doing for them MikeVielhaber? Name one thing your party has EVER done for African Americans. I'm waiting.

Lincoln was a Republican.

More Republicans in Congress voted for the Civil Rights Act in the 60s than Democrats, proportionally.

[MikeVielhaber]

What's your complaint exactly? It's a party convention. The idea is to get people to vote for the party.

Or do you just think the black guy shouldn't have been allowed to speak?

its the fact that he was infuriated that bush had the audacity to campaign to african americans *gasp* the horror!.....i mean this dude was yelling....he was obviously pissed off about it. al sharpton can't control peoples minds...let them think for themself. its like if kerry came to campaign here in texas and they yelled at him for doing that....i would get pissed off if someone did that being from texas. but i wouldnt get mad at kerry for doing it...he's just trying to get votes where he normally doesnt do well. good for him. as much as i think he's a douche.

[jwd]

dissention:

Virginia and the Carolinas are already in the bag, don't you worry.

You're spewing again. Prove it. ;)

[jwd]

CarneVaca:

Lincoln was a Republican.

More Republicans in Congress voted for the Civil Rights Act in the 60s than Democrats, proportionally.


:nod: I hear ya!

[MikeVielhaber]

Bull****. ;)

Tell me what the Republicans did for blacks. Nothing. Sharpton was amazing and he was dead-on. I see you are not refuting anything he said with facts. If you want to talk about votes being taken for granted, let's talk about how the Rpeublicans take the southern vote for granted. :wavey: Virginia and the Carolinas are already in the bag, don't you worry.

what did the dems do for blacks? (i'm not trying to start anything but maybe you know something i dont which is entirely possible)

[CarneVaca]

its the fact that he was infuriated that bush had the audacity to campaign to african americans *gasp* the horror!.....i mean this dude was yelling....he was obviously pissed off about it. al sharpton can't control peoples minds...let them think for themself. its like if kerry came to campaign here in texas and they yelled at him for doing that....i would get pissed off if someone did that being from texas. but i wouldnt get mad at kerry for doing it...he's just trying to get votes where he normally doesnt do well. good for him. as much as i think he's a douche.

I think you're still missing the point of what convention speeches are about. Every single person who got on that podium, save for perhaps Ron Reagan, made a pitch to vote for Kerry, so in a way, they were telling people how to think. I find it curious that you only seem to object to the flamboyant black guy doing it. Is it because he was just so damned effective? Did he strike some kind of nerve?

[CarneVaca]

:nod: I hear ya!

I may be a pest, but I am fair. I don't let blind partisanship cloud my judgment or sense of fairness.

[Johnny Stew]

More Republicans in Congress voted for the Civil Rights Act in the 60s than Democrats, proportionally.


Which was a very good thing, definitely... but tell me, what has the Republican party done for African Americans in the forty years since?

[Johnny Stew]

as much as i think he's a douche.

Well, in so much as a douche is used to cleanse certain orifices from odor-causing bacteria, and many of us are hoping that John Kerry will cleanse the White House of the odor-causing bacteria its currently infested with... I guess it's reasonable to think of Kerry as a "douche." ;)

[MikeVielhaber]

I think you're still missing the point of what convention speeches are about. Every single person who got on that podium, save for perhaps Ron Reagan, made a pitch to vote for Kerry, so in a way, they were telling people how to think. I find it curious that you only seem to object to the flamboyant black guy doing it. Is it because he was just so damned effective? Did he strike some kind of nerve?

dude i didnt watch the convention.....i saw him on cnn.....i object to some of the things i read the edwards had to say but i didnt read or see much of anything else. i'm FAR from racist.

and i couldve gone up there and yelled at the height of my voice VOTE JOHN KERRY and been just as effective. you just have to put energy into what you say and you'll get a rise out of people.

and also this is my first election i'm old enough to vote in so its really the first one i have a big interest in. so excuse my naivity of the conventions i've never paid attention to them before.

[gldstwmn]

Lincoln was a Republican.

More Republicans in Congress voted for the Civil Rights Act in the 60s than Democrats, proportionally.

Who signed the bill into law? Introduced it? Sponsored it? Who created HUD? Welfare? Affirmative Action? Who sponsored and signed the Voting Rights Act of 1965? Who was the first party to allow a black man to speak at their convention? What party had the first black man to run for president? What party has the most African American members of the House Of Representatives? Congress? Mayors? Governors?

Sure Lincoln was a Republican. What are the similaritites between the Republican party of 1865 and today? Were they against abortion and was their playbook the Book Of Revleations? Did they favor taxation of only the poor and the middle class?
Don't be coming at me with this weak ****.

[jwd]

Johnny Stew:

Which was a very good thing, definitely... but tell me, what has the Republican party done for African Americans in the forty years since?

Well there'e a few who are serving in rather high ranking positions in the current administration. Does that count?

[gldstwmn]

Well there'e a few who are serving in rather high ranking positions in the current administration. Does that count?

Besides Rice and Powell, name them.

[MikeVielhaber]

Besides Rice and Powell, name them.

what the hell dude? he said a few he didnt say multitude.....were there significantly more during clintons administration?

[gldstwmn]

what the hell dude? he said a few he didnt say multitude.....were there significantly more during clintons administration?

Yes. Want me to list them?

What have Powell and Rice done for their people BTW?

[MikeVielhaber]

Yes. Want me to list them?

What have Powell and Rice done for their people BTW?

not that i dont believe you but go ahead and list them.....and i dont know everybody in the current administration.....is that all is in the bush admin or are you truly asking who else there is? do you not know? and colin powell is the man....i think he's great and if he wanted to he could make a good president but he doesnt want to ....and i dont think american would vote in a black president ...unfortunately thats how it goes

[gldstwmn]

not that i dont believe you but go ahead and list them.....and i dont know everybody in the current administration.....is that all is in the bush admin or are you truly asking who else there is? do you not know?

There are no other African Americans in the Bush Cabinet. Rice and Powell are the show ponies. As I said, what have they done for their people? Nothing IMO.

Off the top of my head with the Clinton admin:
Ron Brown, Ben Johnson, Jesse Brown, Joycelyn Elders, to name a few. Donna Brazile was Al Gore's campaign manager.

Edited to add: Mike Espy, Togo D. West Jr., Rodney Slater

[jwd]

gldstwmn:

There are no other African Americans in the Bush Cabinet. Rice and Powell are the show ponies. As I said, what have they done for their people? Nothing IMO.

The fact that they are there is enough in my opinion. They are great role models for the African American community. What would you think of the first African American President Colin Powell, and a Republican at that? How cool?! :)

[darklinensuit]

Tucker Carlson is a turd. Period.

Is he a turd or a period? Make up your mind vwith these bodily functions. :shrug:

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

What would you think of the first African American President Colin Powell, and a Republican at that? How cool?! :)

I know the question was not meant for me, but IMO Colin as president would not be cool. :(

- Jake

[jwd]

darklinensuit:

I know the question was not meant for me, but IMO Colin as president would not be cool.

Let me guess, you'd rather have Al Sharpton? :laugh: Seriously though, would you care to elaborate on why you wouldn't like Colin Powell as President? Just curious.

[darklinensuit]

Let me guess, you'd rather have Al Sharpton? :laugh: Seriously though, would you care to elaborate on why you wouldn't like Colin Powell as President? Just curious.

I don't trust him. For one thing I don't think he has been true to his beliefs (whatever they are these days) in his current position. Also, I'm suspicious of politicians (Ross Perot was like this, too) who respond to the media's questions about major issues with words that they're researching the sides still. When Colin was being courted to run some years ago he was intentionally vague much of the time. For a while he would not even take a stand on abortion because he had to "research" the matter. I don't buy for one minute that a grown man who had been considering a run for the presidency for over a year had not decided where he stood before facing the press. Something is not honest there.

- Jake

[dissention]

Well there'e a few who are serving in rather high ranking positions in the current administration. Does that count?

Yeah, because we all know Minute Rice and Colon are representative of the black community in America. :rolleyes:

[dissention]

not that i dont believe you but go ahead and list them.....and i dont know everybody in the current administration.....is that all is in the bush admin or are you truly asking who else there is? do you not know? and colin powell is the man....i think he's great and if he wanted to he could make a good president but he doesnt want to ....and i dont think american would vote in a black president ...unfortunately thats how it goes

Get Powell's ****ty book and look up the "Powell Doctrine" in the index. He's a hypocrite of the highest order who sold out.

[dissention]

The fact that they are there is enough in my opinion. They are great role models for the African American community. What would you think of the first African American President Colin Powell, and a Republican at that? How cool?! :)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Role models? For the African American community? Don't make me hurl my bran muffin.

And Powell would run this country into the ground, being the hypocrite that he is. It all comes back to the Powell Doctrine. ;)

[dissention]

Let me guess, you'd rather have Al Sharpton? :laugh: Seriously though, would you care to elaborate on why you wouldn't like Colin Powell as President? Just curious.

I certainly would. Sharpton is a man who stands up for his beliefs, no matter how unpopular, and he's the epitome of stregth. He's a great man.

You don't seem to know a heckuva lot about Powell, though. Typical Republican. :wavey:

[dissention]

its the fact that he was infuriated that bush had the audacity to campaign to african americans *gasp* the horror!.....i mean this dude was yelling....he was obviously pissed off about it. al sharpton can't control peoples minds...let them think for themself. its like if kerry came to campaign here in texas and they yelled at him for doing that....i would get pissed off if someone did that being from texas. but i wouldnt get mad at kerry for doing it...he's just trying to get votes where he normally doesnt do well. good for him. as much as i think he's a douche.

He was pissed because Shrub used religion to get their votes. Don't you pay attention? He was pissed because he campaigned to the people he insulted about the NAACP. Don't you pay attention? He was pissed because Bush ahs said publicly he doesn't care about the black vote, yet he went out and kissed ass. Don't you pay attention? Stop with the talking points and get your facts straight, that is, if you have any at all.

[dissention]

You're spewing again. Prove it. ;)

Does no one around here pay attention? :confused:

[dissention]

what did the dems do for blacks? (i'm not trying to start anything but maybe you know something i dont which is entirely possible)

I'm not here to teach you or to correct your ignorance. You obviously have the internet, do some research before you show your ignorance about the subject. Simple as that. It's called Google.

[dissention]

Well, in so much as a douche is used to cleanse certain orifices from odor-causing bacteria, and many of us are hoping that John Kerry will cleanse the White House of the odor-causing bacteria its currently infested with... I guess it's reasonable to think of Kerry as a "douche." ;)

Oh honey, we're going flush Bush in November, and I'm not referring to a vinegar douche. ;)

[dissention]

dude i didnt watch the convention

Then your comments aren't productive or based on much of anything. Don't feign ignorance and don't comment on things you did not watch, it's only fair. ;)

[CarneVaca]

Sure Lincoln was a Republican. What are the similaritites between the Republican party of 1865 and today?...

Don't be coming at me with this weak ****.

Weak ****? Name the one similarity between your beloved Democratic Party of today and the Democratic Party of the 1960s and the Democratic Party of the FDR era. Name one similarity between your beloved John Kerry and FDR or even Lyndon Johnson.

Don't make me laugh. It's time to wake up. Both parties have devolved to what they are today. Don't kid yourself. The Republicans are bad but in some ways the Democrats are even worse because they have been trying to outdo the Republicans since the day Clinton took office. The Welfare Act of 1996 would never have passed under Lyndon Johnson or FDR. And I doubt NAFTA would have either.

Really, it's kind of cute that you think the Democrats are so great. Cute, but misguided.

[gldstwmn]

The fact that they are there is enough in my opinion. They are great role models for the African American community. What would you think of the first African American President Colin Powell, and a Republican at that? How cool?! :)

The first Black president will be a Democrat. His name: Barack Obama. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

I know the question was not meant for me, but IMO Colin as president would not be cool. :(

- Jake

Now tell him why. :)

EDITED TO ADD: Didn't see your post #41. Powell was also mixed up in the My Lai massacre. he was also the one who went in front of the UN and sold them the bogus intelligence we used to start this war.
Not only that, the only person the Republicans are ever going to nominate for the gig is some cracker.

[gldstwmn]

Does no one around here pay attention? :confused:

First president to snub the NAACP since Herbert Hoover. :rolleyes:

[jwd]

gldstwmn:

Quote:
Originally Posted by darklinensuit
I know the question was not meant for me, but IMO Colin as president would not be cool.

- Jake

Now tell him why.


He did! :)


Does no one around here pay attention?


:rolleyes: :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

He did! :)





:rolleyes: :laugh:

My post has been edited. Please, try to keep up with us...if you can, that is. :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Weak ****?

You answer my question and I'll answer yours.

[jwd]

gldstwmn:

My post has been edited. Please, try to keep up with us...if you can, that is

Well isn't that sweet? :rolleyes:

[Johnny Stew]

Well there'e a few who are serving in rather high ranking positions in the current administration. Does that count?

You're right, we have two African Americans who aren't being overlooked or taken for granted by the Republican Party... but what about the other 39 million? ;)

[Johnny Stew]

It's time to wake up. Both parties have devolved to what they are today. Don't kid yourself. The Republicans are bad but in some ways the Democrats are even worse because they have been trying to outdo the Republicans since the day Clinton took office.

Really, it's kind of cute that you think the Democrats are so great. Cute, but misguided.

Nader isn't exactly squeaky-clean either, and the Green Party even disassociated themselves with him.

Nader's career is littered with allegations of mistreated employees, backstabbing, tax-evasion, union breaking, and shady dealings with the very "big business corporations" he's often taken to task.

Yet, you still seem to think he's the best candidate. :shrug:
So I don't think it's any more misguided to support the Democratic party or its presidential candidate.

Read the article I'm attaching from Salon.com. It's most definitely not the only source which explores Nader's "dark side," but it's starting-point.

[gldstwmn]

Well isn't that sweet? :rolleyes:

http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/dailystar/32301.php

Bush camp solicits race of Star staffer

ARIZONA DAILY STAR

President Bush's re-election campaign insisted on knowing the race of an Arizona Daily Star journalist assigned to photograph Vice President Dick Cheney.

The Star refused to provide the information.

Cheney is scheduled to appear at a rally this afternoon at the Pima County Fairgrounds.

A rally organizer for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign asked Teri Hayt, the Star's managing editor, to disclose the journalist's race on Friday. After Hayt refused, the organizer called back and said the journalist probably would be allowed to photograph the vice president.

"It was such an outrageous request, I was personally insulted," Hayt said later.

Danny Diaz, a spokesman for the president's re-election campaign, said the information was needed for security purposes.

"All the information requested of staff, volunteers and participants for the event has been done so to ensure the safety of all those involved, including the vice president of the United States," he said.

Diaz repeated that answer when asked if it is the practice of the White House to ask for racial information or if the photographer, Mamta Popat, was singled out because of her name. He referred those questions to the U.S. Secret Service, which did not respond to a call from the Star Friday afternoon.

Hayt declined to speculate on whether Popat was racially profiled, but said she is deeply concerned.

"One has to wonder what they were going to do with that information," Hayt said. "Because she has Indian ancestry, were they going to deny her access? I don't know."

Journalists covering the president or vice president must undergo a background check and are required to provide their name, date of birth and Social Security number. The Star provided that information Thursday for Popat and this reporter.

"That's all anybody has been asked to provide," said Hayt, adding that this is the first time in her 26-year career that a journalist's race was made an issue.

Organizer Christine Walton asked for Popat's race in telephone conversations with two other Star editors before she spoke to Hayt. They also refused to provide the information. Walton told Hayt that Popat's race was necessary to allow the Secret Service to distinguish her from someone else who might have the same name.

"It was a very lame excuse," Hayt said.

Popat, a photographer with six years' experience, was on assignment Friday and unaware of the controversy. But she said she was glad the Star refused. "My race shouldn't have anything to do with my job," she said.

Tickets are required for the public to attend the rally, which begins at 12:50 p.m. All tickets were distributed by Friday.

[Johnny Stew]

President Bush's re-election campaign insisted on knowing the race of an Arizona Daily Star journalist assigned to photograph Vice President Dick Cheney.

Sometimes the comparisons to the earliest days of the Nazi's proliferation in Germany, don't seem so far-fetched. :distress:

[MikeVielhaber]

He was pissed because Shrub used religion to get their votes. Don't you pay attention? He was pissed because he campaigned to the people he insulted about the NAACP. Don't you pay attention? He was pissed because Bush ahs said publicly he doesn't care about the black vote, yet he went out and kissed ass. Don't you pay attention? Stop with the talking points and get your facts straight, that is, if you have any at all.

do you have a tick or something? i heard you the first time. i watched the highlights. and he looked like a dumbass so i commented on it. my apologizes. and screw you

[MikeVielhaber]

I'm not here to teach you or to correct your ignorance. You obviously have the internet, do some research before you show your ignorance about the subject. Simple as that. It's called Google.

why would i do that if i could get someone here to sum it down for me. i dont have that kind of time.

[MikeVielhaber]

Then your comments aren't productive or based on much of anything. Don't feign ignorance and don't comment on things you did not watch, it's only fair. ;)
i do whatever i want. unless you want to come over here and stop me from doing. don't tell me my business.

[MikeVielhaber]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Role models? For the African American community? Don't make me hurl my bran muffin.

And Powell would run this country into the ground, being the hypocrite that he is. It all comes back to the Powell Doctrine. ;)

all politicians are hypocrytes. kerry is a hypocryte. edwards is a hypocryte. clinton is a dumbass. bush is a hypocryte. they all are. you're gonna have to have a hyprocryte in office. there's no way around it.

[gldstwmn]

Sometimes the comparisons to the earliest days of the Nazi's proliferation in Germany, don't seem so far-fetched. :distress:

I know. But a certain contingent on this board gets up in arms over the mere comparison of it so... :shrug: :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

why would i do that if i could get someone here to sum it down for me. i dont have that kind of time.

Would you believe my summation? Or Dissention's? Wouldn't you rather form your own informed opinion on things? Trying to discuss things about which you "don't have the time" to take an interest in makes you look like a bit of a dolt. If you've no interest in politics, why vote?

[estranged4life]

The first Black president will be a Democrat. His name: Barack Obama. :nod:

the first black president may be Democratic Senator Ford (I cannot recall his first name) from the state of Tennessee...He is already being prepped for a run in possibly 2008 or 2012, Thus his new nickname "The Next-next president".

Obama could do it, but Ford has the better chance of succeeding!

[gldstwmn]

all politicians are hypocrytes. kerry is a hypocryte. edwards is a hypocryte. clinton is a dumbass. bush is a hypocryte. they all are. you're gonna have to have a hyprocryte in office. there's no way around it.

You might want to utilize the spell check once in a while. I see you've got a Billy Badass complex going for you as well, from your reply a couple of posts ago. As I said, if all is lost and you've no interest in politics, why are you a part of these discussions? This is a big board and we're certainly not dragging you over to this thread to post.

"It is easier to pretend to be what you are not than to hide what you really are; but he that can accomplish both has little to learn about hypocrisy."
Charles Caleb Colton
Lacon
1825

[jwd]

Johnny Stew:

You're right, we have two African Americans who aren't being overlooked or taken for granted by the Republican Party... but what about the other 39 million?

http://www.politicalblack.com/blackrepublicans.html

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15345

"Criticism of Reagan from black spokespersons is motivated by ideology, not an objective review of policies adopted during Reagan’s eight years in office or the status of black Americans. Reagan increased funding for civil rights enforcement, his Justice Department brought more suits to enforce voting rights in its first three years than the Carter administration had in four years. And of course, Reagan signed legislation making Martin Luther King Day a national holiday."


http://www.meckgop.com/timeline.html

"2001 President George W. Bush appoints General Colin L. Powell as the Secretary of State; Roderick R. Paige as the Secretary of Education; Condoleezza Rice as Advisor of the National Security Council; Alphonso Jackson as the Deputy Secretary to Housing and Urban Development; Claude Alien as the Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services; Leo S. Mackay, Jr, as the Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs; Larry D. Thompson as the Deputy Attorney General; and Stephen A. Perry as Adminstrator of General Services Adminstration"


http://www.newaus.com.au/030502gopblacks.html

"The contrast in the House of Representatives was even more marked, with 61 percent of Dems voting for the Act as against 80 percent of the Republicans. Al Gore's father was one of those who refused to support the Act that enforced the constitutional rights of blacks. Unlike that well-known Democrat Bull Connor who used dogs, clubs and hoses to violate black rights, the genteel Gore merely voted against them."

[Johnny Stew]

The State Of Black American Politics (http://www.blackcommentator.com/9_nul.html)

Despite more than two decades of rhetoric that Republican conservatism offers African Americans a viable avenue for inclusion, the GOP has yet to mount a substantive real-life effort to address what poll after poll shows African-Americans consider major core issues - such as racist practices in housing, job markets, income/wealth patterns, educational opportunities, health patterns, and the criminal justice system. Instead, the Republicans have seemed content to play appointive politics with the black electorate.

Bush Economics Bad News For African Americans (http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/ns06042003.cfm)

"Among those most negatively and disproportionately affected by Bush’s economic policies are African Americans. The 2001 Bush tax cuts, which provided relief for wealthy individuals and corporations, exacerbated the effects of the recession on middle- and lower-income African American families by forcing cuts in social programs such as job training, according to the National Urban League’s Institute for Opportunity and Equality."

"We have witnessed a wholesale retreat from the economic policies that benefited the many, including millions of people of color, to the narrow policies that benefit the rich and wealthy," CBTU (Coalition of Black Trade Unionists) President William Lucy said, citing the $330 billion tax cut recently passed by Congress.


Bush and Race: Policies Matter (http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=124736)

While Bush's snubbing of the oldest civil rights organization may have offended the sensibilities of the members of the NAACP and others, a critical assessment of the conservative policies of the Bush administration illustrate a more serious assault on the interests of people of color.

Under the cloud of the Bush administration's recession and "jobless" recovery, much of the prosperity that communities of color experienced during the 1990s economic boom has all but evaporated in the past four years as poverty rates, on the decline at the end of the 90's, have risen. The unemployment rate for African-Americans has doubled that of whites – 10.1 percent for African-Americans and 5.0 percent for whites according to the June 2004 report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Further, President Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy have widened the racial and ethnic wealth and income divide by rewarding those who have investment income with lower taxes and penalizing those with wage income with higher taxes.

A similarly bleak picture exists in health care policy where the Bush administration has failed to put forward a reform plan to fix a troubled health care system and promises of expanded funding for HIV/AIDS treatment have largely gone unmet. As a result, the expanding ranks of individuals lacking health care coverage include a disproportionate number of African-Americans, Latinos and Native Americans, and racial disparities in a range of health outcomes – including mortality rates – continues to exist.

The Bush administration has provided the smallest increase for education funding since 1996, frozen funding for after-school programs, inadequately increased Title I funding for the nation's poorest schools, and failed to increase Pell Grant awards. While President Bush is fond of criticizing those in the education profession for "the soft bigotry of low expectations" that he argues undermines achievement for students of color, President Bush's own education policies have significantly undermined the public education system and exacerbated the problem of educational inequality.

In response to public criticism of the NAACP snubbing, the Bush administration has sought to emphasize the president's "proven record" in helping communities of color. And while nothing on the list was quite as amusing as HUD Secretary Alphonso Jackson's reaching way back to President Abraham Lincoln's freeing the slaves to find Republican Party accomplishments for African-Americans, the "proven record" illustrates a tenuous connection between the rationales of the Bush administration and the realities of life for many people of color.

(T)he Bush administration is advancing a policy for funding Section 8 housing vouchers that will substantially cut housing assistance for many low-income families.

The administration's record on civil rights enforcement is equally undistinguished. Career lawyers in the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice have publicly complained that Attorney General John Ashcroft has allowed conservative politics to compromise key enforcement decisions. One such example was during the consideration of the 2002 Mississippi redistricting plan in which the Justice Department sat on its hands against the recommendation of its career lawyers, thus allowing a three-judge federal appeals court composed of three Republican-appointed judges to approve a plan that diluted the strength of the African-American vote and benefited the Republican candidate in a heavily contested district. And Ashcroft continues to stand by while the state of Florida purges alleged convicted felons from its voter roles based on inaccurate data and a flawed process.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.meckgop.com/timeline.html

"2001 President George W. Bush appoints General Colin L. Powell as the Secretary of State; Roderick R. Paige as the Secretary of Education; Condoleezza Rice as Advisor of the National Security Council; Alphonso Jackson as the Deputy Secretary to Housing and Urban Development; Claude Alien as the Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services; Leo S. Mackay, Jr, as the Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs; Larry D. Thompson as the Deputy Attorney General; and Stephen A. Perry as Adminstrator of General Services Adminstration"

Tommy Thompson is Secretary of Health and Human Services, Anthony Principi Director of Veterans Affairs, James Comey is Deputy Attorney General. Guess what? They're all crackers! :] Either the site you listed is wrong or it hasn't been updated in ages. Which begs the question, why can't the Bush administaration keep people of color working for them?



http://www.newaus.com.au/030502gopblacks.html

"The contrast in the House of Representatives was even more marked, with 61 percent of Dems voting for the Act as against 80 percent of the Republicans. Al Gore's father was one of those who refused to support the Act that enforced the constitutional rights of blacks. Unlike that well-known Democrat Bull Connor who used dogs, clubs and hoses to violate black rights, the genteel Gore merely voted against them."

Now go Google Dixiecrat. :wavey:

[MikeVielhaber]

Would you believe my summation? Or Dissention's? Wouldn't you rather form your own informed opinion on things? Trying to discuss things about which you "don't have the time" to take an interest in makes you look like a bit of a dolt. If you've no interest in politics, why vote?

i work and go to school....i really dont have the time to research this stuff. if you give me a good source i'll gladly check it out.

edit:
and not having the time doesnt equal not having an interest. if i wasn't interested i wouldn't be here. i'm only 18 years old so i'm not as well researched as some of you here. give me time though cause i'm always gaining knowledge.

my apologies on the spelling error......i never check myself on these boards.

[gldstwmn]

i work and go to school....i really dont have the time to research this stuff. if you give me a good source i'll gladly check it out

Every article I've ever posted is available through the search function on this thread. There are many. :laugh:

[jwd]

gldstwmn:

They're all crackers!

I'd take that as a compliment coming from you! :laugh:

Either the site you listed is wrong or it hasn't been updated in ages. Which begs the question, why can't the Bush administaration keep people of color working for them?

That was 2001, this is 2004. The link was a "timeline". Did you click on it? Hmmmm, maybe they all got promoted. ;)

Now go Google Dixiecrat.

You've googled that out, I thought it was time for a "different" google. So google that. :)

[CarneVaca]

You answer my question and I'll answer yours.

Don't care to, nor do I really care if you answer. It was mostly rhetorical anyway. Your partisanship is so blind that you won't even face the facts. I see a lot of that on the Republican side too. I merely pointed out that more Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats, proportionally, and you can't even concede that.

It' so funny to me how some people who consider themselves so liberal appear so narrow-minded. Then again real liberals won't be voting for Kerry.

[Johnny Stew]

It' so funny to me how some people who consider themselves so liberal appear so narrow-minded. Then again real liberals won't be voting for Kerry.

Unfortunately those "real liberals" will be cutting their noses off to spite their faces then, and will be ensuring that Bush will have another 4 years in the White House, further eroding our civil rights, our economy, our environment, our educational system, and our international relations.

[gldstwmn]

i work and go to school....i really dont have the time to research this stuff. if you give me a good source i'll gladly check it out.

edit:
and not having the time doesnt equal not having an interest. if i wasn't interested i wouldn't be here. i'm only 18 years old so i'm not as well researched as some of you here. give me time though cause i'm always gaining knowledge.

my apologies on the spelling error......i never check myself on these boards.

Sorry. :sorry: Didn't know you were still a baby. It's a good thing to be interested. Keep on asking the good questions and I'll try to keep my evil twin off the keyboard. :lol:

[gldstwmn]

I'd take that as a compliment coming from you! :laugh:


It means white, Grandpa. :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Don't care to, nor do I really care if you answer. It was mostly rhetorical anyway. Your partisanship is so blind that you won't even face the facts. I see a lot of that on the Republican side too. I merely pointed out that more Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats, proportionally, and you can't even concede that.

It' so funny to me how some people who consider themselves so liberal appear so narrow-minded. Then again real liberals won't be voting for Kerry.

Everybody sing now! "Do the (CarneVaca) hustle." Doo do do dododdo doo do do doo-left foot right right foot right and slide and slide and sheikyerbooty and start again.

See, you don't support any one candidate, you just sit in your ivory tower and snipe. Since you're reticent, you think you're above reproach.

Everybody sing now! "Do the (CarneVaca) hustle." Doo do do dododdo doo do do doo-left foot right right foot right and slide and slide and sheikyerbooty and start again.

This came to me during a meditative moment in my yoga class today.

Namaste.http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/happy/thebirdman.gif

[gldstwmn]

Unfortunately those "real liberals" will be cutting their noses off to spite their faces then, and will be ensuring that Bush will have another 4 years in the White House, further eroding our civil rights, our economy, our environment, our educational system, and our international relations.

Johnny Stew, you are a man among men and should consider a career in the diplomatic corps. :xoxo:

[dissention]

The first Black president will be a Democrat. His name: Barack Obama. :nod:

Did you hear about the Obama button and Bush? :lol:

[jwd]

gldstwmn:

It means white, Grandpa.

How ironic is it that in a thread where we are discussing racial equality, you use a racial slur by referring to the white race as crackers. You call yourself a liberal with progressive ideas and thoughts? I think not!

[dissention]

You're right, we have two African Americans who aren't being overlooked or taken for granted by the Republican Party... but what about the other 39 million? ;)

They're too busy stealing the white man's pound cake to be bothered with. :rolleyes:

[dissention]

why would i do that if i could get someone here to sum it down for me. i dont have that kind of time.

Then why join in on the conversation? Your comments simply reinforce the belief that Amercans (more accurately, Republicans) don't give a **** about educating themselves about what's going on in their name. :wavey:

[dissention]

I know. But a certain contingent on this board gets up in arms over the mere comparison of it so... :shrug: :shrug:

Not me. This is the 43rd Reich, my dear.

[dissention]

the first black president may be Democratic Senator Ford (I cannot recall his first name) from the state of Tennessee...He is already being prepped for a run in possibly 2008 or 2012, Thus his new nickname "The Next-next president".

Obama could do it, but Ford has the better chance of succeeding!

I don't think so. The reason Obama spoke was to get the national attention for being presidential material. After he serves a term in the senate, he'll run. But - he might run as VP on Ford's ticket. :thumbsup:

[dissention]

I'd take that as a compliment coming from you! :laugh:



That was 2001, this is 2004. The link was a "timeline". Did you click on it? Hmmmm, maybe they all got promoted. ;)



You've googled that out, I thought it was time for a "different" google. So google that. :)

:laugh:

Cracker = White.

[dissention]

Everybody sing now! "Do the (CarneVaca) hustle." Doo do do dododdo doo do do doo-left foot right right foot right and slide and slide and sheikyerbooty and start again.

See, you don't support any one candidate, you just sit in your ivory tower and snipe. Since you're reticent, you think you're above reproach.

Everybody sing now! "Do the (CarneVaca) hustle." Doo do do dododdo doo do do doo-left foot right right foot right and slide and slide and sheikyerbooty and start again.

This came to me during a meditative moment in my yoga class today.

Namaste.http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/happy/thebirdman.gif

:laugh: :lol: :laugh:

[jwd]

dissention:

Cracker = White.

Read post 84, that sentiment applies to you too!

[dissention]

Read post 84, that sentiment applies to you too!

Applies to me? I never used the term. Utilize your back function and you'll see that. ;)

And since when is cracker a racial slur? :confused: Methinks you are a grandpa. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Did you hear about the Obama button and Bush? :lol:

No darling, what?

[gldstwmn]

They're too busy stealing the white man's pound cake to be bothered with. :rolleyes:

LMFAO! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[gldstwmn]

I don't think so. The reason Obama spoke was to get the national attention for being presidential material. After he serves a term in the senate, he'll run. But - he might run as VP on Ford's ticket. :thumbsup:

Yup. He was up on that stage for a reason. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

How ironic is it that in a thread where we are discussing racial equality, you use a racial slur by referring to the white race as crackers. You call yourself a liberal with progressive ideas and thoughts? I think not!

(Puts hand over heart) "I apologize to my country."

[dissention]

No darling, what?

A woman was at one of Bush's rallies and wore her Obama For Senate button and when he went to shake her hand, he jumped back in disgust when he saw her button. She pointed out that it said OBama, not OSama, and he said to her "I don't know who that is" and rolled his eyes. She told him "You will, sir, you'll know real soon." :lol: She was on Randi, it's in the archives!

[Johnny Stew]

How ironic is it that in a thread where we are discussing racial equality, you use a racial slur by referring to the white race as crackers. You call yourself a liberal with progressive ideas and thoughts? I think not!

It's generally not considered a racial slur, when it's said by one person of a particular race to another person of the same race.

For instance, it's "acceptable" (but only just) within the black community for one black man to call another black man by an otherwise derogatory term.
Same thing goes for the gay community.

It's looked at as an empowering thing... taking back a word that has been used negatively against you, and making it your own.

[Johnny Stew]

Johnny Stew, you are a man among men and should consider a career in the diplomatic corps. :xoxo:

Aw, shucks... Thank you, thank you. :o :xoxo:

[estranged4life]

And since when is cracker a racial slur? :confused: Methinks you are a grandpa. :laugh:

last time I remember "cracker" can be used as a racial term:

crack-er

a bragging liar: Boaster

a poor usu. Southern white-usu. used disparagingly

a native resident of Florida or Georgia-used as a nickname
---------

as for me, I am considered a "half-breed", Which is also considered a "possible" racial term:

half-breed

the offspring of an American Indian and a white person-often used disparagingly

The definitions provided appear courtesy of the "Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary"



ps-Just noticed Rev.Al s on PBS on the Tucker "Super-nerd" Carlson show...Man, this Carlson guy is a major "nerd"

Nerd

See Bill Gates

[jwd]

Johnny Stew:

It's generally not considered a racial slur, when it's said by one person of a particular race to another person of the same race.

For instance, it's "acceptable" (but only just) within the black community for one black man to call another black man by an otherwise derogatory term.
Same thing goes for the gay community.

It's looked at as an empowering thing... taking back a word that has been used negatively against you, and making it your own.


Generally I can accept that explanation. I do think it has a lot to do with the tone or context of how it was used. And it CERTAINLY can be derogatory, even if used by a member of one's own race. I'd just prefer it if words like that aren't used at all, because I believe it tends to fuel the fire of racial separation and discrimination. Of course this applies to sexual orientation also. It's more of a MINDSET thing to me when words like that are used.

[dissention]

ps-Just noticed Rev.Al s on PBS on the Tucker "Super-nerd" Carlson show...Man, this Carlson guy is a major "nerd"

Nerd

See Bill Gates

:nod: Nerd isn't the word, though. In last weeks issue of Entertainment Weekly, there was a review of "Crossfire," Tucker's show on CNN, and they all but called Tucker the embodiment of Satan. :lol:

He is a low class pig, IMO.

[estranged4life]

there was a review of "Crossfire," Tucker's show on CNN, and they all but called Tucker the embodiment of Satan. :lol:

now some my friends from Tulsa, Who are "really on the dark side" (Not the Democratic 'dark-side', but who are Satanists...Trust me, I have friends from all walks of life who believe/worship in all kinds of things, To which I say "To each their own") would be offended with Tucker's comparison to Satan.

Their typical response would be "He's not Satan...We havent seen him at the meetings" :lol:

[CarneVaca]

Unfortunately those "real liberals" will be cutting their noses off to spite their faces then, and will be ensuring that Bush will have another 4 years in the White House, further eroding our civil rights, our economy, our environment, our educational system, and our international relations.

The world is always about to end, Johnny.

[CarneVaca]

This came to me during a meditative moment in my yoga class today.

Namaste.http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/happy/thebirdman.gif

At least you're getting good use out of your yoga classes.

[gldstwmn]

A woman was at one of Bush's rallies and wore her Obama For Senate button and when he went to shake her hand, he jumped back in disgust when he saw her button. She pointed out that it said OBama, not OSama, and he said to her "I don't know who that is" and rolled his eyes. She told him "You will, sir, you'll know real soon." :lol: She was on Randi, it's in the archives!

Yes I heard that. He is such an uniformed fool. Four more years! [/sarcasm]

[gldstwmn]

Generally I can accept that explanation. I do think it has a lot to do with the tone or context of how it was used. And it CERTAINLY can be derogatory, even if used by a member of one's own race. I'd just prefer it if words like that aren't used at all, because I believe it tends to fuel the fire of racial separation and discrimination. Of course this applies to sexual orientation also. It's more of a MINDSET thing to me when words like that are used.


Let's all get down on our knees and pray for forgiveness for our impure thoughts. Can you feel the healing?

[gldstwmn]

At least you're getting good use out of your yoga classes.

I always do. :)

[Johnny Stew]

The world is always about to end, Johnny.

Don't give me that. :p You're more pessimistic about the state of affairs than the rest of us... otherwise you wouldn't be so intent on "sticking it" to the Democratic party.
If you don't think things are so dire, then why do you feel they need to be taught a lesson?
Also, why is it more important to teach a lesson to the Democratic party than to the Republican party? Aren't the things the Bush Administration has done bad enough to want to teach them a lesson, and show them that the American people won't stand for this arrogant behaviour any longer?

But hey, as I said before... you want to be certain Bush will have another four years in the White House, then don't vote for Kerry. It's that simple.
It's not going to teach anyone a lesson, it's not going to provide a wakeup call for the Democrats ("whoa, you mean to tell me Pedro didn't vote for us??), it's just going to make sure we languish under the thumb of conservative & religious extremists for another one-thousand four hundred and sixty days.

[dissention]

Let's all get down on our knees and pray for forgiveness for our impure thoughts. Can you feel the healing?

:lol:

Don't lock us in the Jesus room and make us curse dirty pillows.

[jwd]

It's never too late to repent! :wavey: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Also, why is it more important to teach a lesson to the Democratic party than to the Republican party? Aren't the things the Bush Administration has done bad enough to want to teach them a lesson, and show them that the American people won't stand for this arrogant behaviour any longer?

Johnny, my position is a little more complex than that, and you're either deliberately trying to oversimplify it and unfairly minimize it or you've missed the extensive posts I've made over recent months.

First off, I would ask you: What makes your position on the issues, that which has make you reach the conclusion Kerry is best, more valid or legitimate than my conclusion not to vote for him?

Second, I am not teaching anyone a lesson, and believing that any one individual could do that by casting a vote is beyond naive. A lesson would be taught only if enough people took to the polls and cast votes against both parties. There would then be a message loud and clear about dissatisfaction among the voters, and both parties would have to take notice or risk obsolescence. Improbable? Sadly, yes. Impossible? Thankfully, no.

So what does that leave me with? Voting on principle. This is a very difficult concept for the average American to grasp, I've noticed. From childhood, the idea that only two parties matter in this country is ingrained in one's consciousness, and that anything outside of that is futile. Real, honest-to-goodness change always sprouts from that which appears futile to the masses. Not one instance of significant social change has ever come out of working the system from within. The Civil Rights Act, which I've noticed a certain contingent around here likes to hold up as a banner of Democratic Party goodness, would never have happened if people hadn't worked from outside the system and forced the nation to take notice. The same goes for the anti-Vietnam movement, the union movement and countless other significant efforts.

I vote for a third-party candidate because I believe that a movement can be built that will work toward releasing the stranglehold the corporations have on Washington. Only when that happens will we have sound, workable environmental and international relations policies. These are the critical two issues for survival in this planet because they are inextricably tied to economics and how we relate with the rest of the world. Social issues that I vehemently support are often used as sideshows, and the people affected as pawns, by both parties. Don't kid yourself into thinking the Democrats are any better. Some of the most racist, anti-civil rights people were in the Democratic party and had to break with the party. That speaks well for the party and badly for those particular individuals. Unfortunately, the party has regressed. Today, the party bosses would have found a way to accommodate those racists, lest the party lose any votes.

A party has to stand for something. And starting with the Clinton years, I can't for the life of me figure out what the Democrats stand for anymore. It certainly ain't what I believe in.

The Green Party reflects my outlook on the world. So tell me, Johnny, why should I vote against my party to help yours?

[strandinthewind]

The Green Party reflects my outlook on the world. So tell me, Johnny, why should I vote against my party to help yours?

ALthough I am not JS :wavey: - I am unsure people are saying you should. I know I have just explained why I thought and think Kerry is the best choice and why although I think it is unfair, votes for third party candidates will never have the effect of awakening the two main parties, a point you have made before although I am not about to wade through thousands of posts to find it :laugh: I do not expect people to follow suit :shrug: AND - as always, I respect your opinion on this, but I think (not as always :laugh: ) you are incorrect in this election. :cool:

[CarneVaca]

ALthough I am not JS :wavey: - I am unsure people are saying you should. I know I have just explained why I thought and think Kerry is the best choice and why although I think it is unfair, votes for third party candidates will never have the effect of awakening the two main parties, a point you have made before although I am not about to wade through thousands of posts to find it :laugh: I do not expect people to follow suit :shrug: AND - as always, I respect your opinion on this, but I think (not as always :laugh: ) you are incorrect in this election. :cool:

Jason, I was merely reacting to Johnny's unfair simplification and dismissal of my very complex reasons for voting for a third party.

I thought the Democrats understood complexity. After all, I am told that's why one should vote for Kerry. :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

Johnny, my position is a little more complex than that, and you're either deliberately trying to oversimplify it and unfairly minimize it or you've missed the extensive posts I've made over recent months.

First off, I would ask you: What makes your position on the issues, that which has make you reach the conclusion Kerry is best, more valid or legitimate than my conclusion not to vote for him?

Second, I am not teaching anyone a lesson, and believing that any one individual could do that by casting a vote is beyond naive. A lesson would be taught only if enough people took to the polls and cast votes against both parties. There would then be a message loud and clear about dissatisfaction among the voters, and both parties would have to take notice or risk obsolescence. Improbable? Sadly, yes. Impossible? Thankfully, no.

So what does that leave me with? Voting on principle. This is a very difficult concept for the average American to grasp, I've noticed. From childhood, the idea that only two parties matter in this country is ingrained in one's consciousness, and that anything outside of that is futile. Real, honest-to-goodness change always sprouts from that which appears futile to the masses. Not one instance of significant social change has ever come out of working the system from within.

The Green Party reflects my outlook on the world. So tell me, Johnny, why should I vote against my party to help yours?

My position on the issues is no more valid or important than anyone else's. And I've never said it is.
But, just like you, I stick to my guns and fight for what I believe in.

What you fail to see in the comments I've made to you, is that I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not disagreeing with your opinion that changes need to be made.
I'm in a situation where it's beyond obvious to me, how important it is to "shake up the system" in order to bring about change.

But, right here and right now, I don't agree with the opinion that "Kerry is as bad as Bush," and that we need to "send a wake-up call" by voting for someone else.
In my opinion, too much is at stake. You feel that's based on fear, but I disagree.
If we had no concerns about the way things are, then we'd have no reason to form an opinion at all, or hell, even to vote. We'd just let things go as they are. You call it fear, I call it concern.

I like what the Green Party stands for. In some cases, I agree more with them than I do with the Democratic party (although it's yet to be proven whether they'd be any better or any worse than the "main" two parties).
Contrary to what you believe, I am not a staunch, die-hard, support the party at all costs, Democrat. I have always voted for who I feel will be the best man for the job.

Right now, I do feel that Kerry is the best man. I can't say it often enough, but I don't have to agree with someone's stances on every single issue, in order to feel that they'll do the job, and do it well.

Again, I don't disagree with your opinion, or feel that you should go against your principles... I just feel that right now, it's not the time to be trying to "teach the Democrats a lesson" (which you HAVE said). Right now is the time to say "enough" to the current administration's arrogance and religious extremism.

The Democratic party has taken a turn that you disapprove of, but "everything goes in cycles," and changes can be made to that party, too. Kerry is too conservative for you, and too liberal for others... but, in my opinion, he's a good start (and I did not feel this way about Gore).

[CarneVaca]

Johnny, rather than repeat myself, check the other thread. And by the way, nothing you say in that last post is disagreeable to me. If I said "teach the democrats a lesson," which I may have, let's be sure to take that in the rhetorical vein it was delivered. After all, once in while that happens, right (one little tiny issue)? ;)