Dont Stop at DNC

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I watched the Democratic National Convention tonight, Bill Clinton finally came on about 10:30 to an enormous response...as he walked out none other than Dont Stop played for a good 30 secs... "if you wake and dont wanna smile.." it was a great feeling....and I personally (although some will disagree, thats ok) felt on overwhelming positive and optimistic feeling coming from politicians I have never felt in my life...and having Fleetwood Mac music along with that made it all the better...wow

Chris

[estranged4life]

I'm glad I turned it after "Hill-Billy" bored me because I couldnt take seeing "Slick-Willy" coming out to "Don't Stop" (That was WAY too predictable folkz) because I might have "spewed" all over my white "Rumours" album cover t-shirt. :nod:

Brian j.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Too bad u didnt stay tuned for Clinton's great speech..it really was good

Chris

[estranged4life]

Too bad u didnt stay tuned for Clinton's great speech..it really was good

Chris

I want to be the President again...Wahhhhhhhh" :lol: :laugh: :lol:

I'm more interested in Kerry than "Slick Willy", Maybe if Kerry says the right things he MAY get my "precious" (Yeah right!) vote (Shrub sure as hell aint getting it!!!!!)

Until then I'm voting for Kenny McCormick in 2004 (Update-Possibly Nader after seeing what he had to say during an interview tonite) :nod:

Brian j.

ps-I saw that some brainless Oklahoman decided to make shirts that said the following:

"Kerry-Okie" An apparent rip-off on karoke? How sacrilegious...But in the day of American IDIOTIC Idol that's nuthin' new, :lol:

[sodascouts]

Clinton coming out to "Don't Stop" made me happy. I can't help it - I love them much more than I disdain him! lol

[gldstwmn]

I watched the Democratic National Convention tonight, Bill Clinton finally came on about 10:30 to an enormous response...as he walked out none other than Dont Stop played for a good 30 secs... "if you wake and dont wanna smile.." it was a great feeling....and I personally (although some will disagree, thats ok) felt on overwhelming positive and optimistic feeling coming from politicians I have never felt in my life...and having Fleetwood Mac music along with that made it all the better...wow

Chris

His speech was nothing short of brilliant. He got right to the point and showed that yes, there is a big difference between these two parties.
President Carter was quite effective as well.

[gldstwmn]

Clinton coming out to "Don't Stop" made me happy. I can't help it - I love them much more than I disdain him! lol

It was an uplifting moment. Truly, everything associated with that record is golden.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I think they were very effective tonight also in letting swing voters know why the Kerry/Edwards ticket is the better option...I loved Gore's questioning of the viewers....lol as well as Bill Clinton talking about his tax cuts he received from this administration...ha

Chris

[strandinthewind]

. . . as well as Bill Clinton talking about his tax cuts he received from this administration...ha

Chris

I liked that part too. I thought he gave a great speech - one of his best, and that is saying a mouthfull. Interestingly, as much as he bitched about the tax cut, I but he still took it :rolleyes: In fact, I know of no one who refused it or anyone who pays more than they have to pay :laugh: Alas, the hypocrisy of America :cool:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

nevertheless he had some great points....and he presented them without ever saying "George Bush," although he did say "This President.." a few times....but everyones speeches were hopeful...and lively...and i think it was a great night for them

Chris

[gldstwmn]

I liked that part too. I thought he gave a great speech - one of his best, and that is saying a mouthfull. Interestingly, as much as he bitched about the tax cut, I but he still took it :rolleyes: In fact, I know of no one who refused it or anyone who pays more than they have to pay :laugh: Alas, the hypocrisy of America :cool:

President Clinton left the Oval Office with over $1million in legal bills from the Ken Starr witch hunt. He's never had any real money to speak of in his life and has finally managed to accumulate some through his book deal and speaking engagements post presidency. Why the hell shouldn't he take it? He did start a charitable organization for AIDS victims to ensure that they get the proper medication at little or no cost to them. Maybe that's where some of the money went in addition to his legal bills.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

He did say he had never been in that top 1% until now

Chris

[darklinensuit]

Clinton spoke very well. I didn't care for Carter's speech or even Hillary's (though she was better than Jimmy). Bill is just a better communicator. After presidents like Reagan and Clinton raised the bar on polished style, it amazes me that we have a president who doesn't speak very well.

And I agree with Nancy, Don't Stop is not a favorite of mine, but I do feel proud when it plays at an important event. I like this band.

- Jake

[Patti]

I thought President Clinton did a great job last night. I thoroughly enjoy hearing him speak and I thought his message was a good one. I was flipping channels afterwards for commentary and Tom Brokaw said "that man knows how to deliver a speech." Hearing Don't Stop was just a great big bonus.

[strandinthewind]

President Clinton left the Oval Office with over $1million in legal bills from the Ken Starr witch hunt. He's never had any real money to speak of in his life and has finally managed to accumulate some through his book deal and speaking engagements post presidency. Why the hell shouldn't he take it? He did start a charitable organization for AIDS victims to ensure that they get the proper medication at little or no cost to them. Maybe that's where some of the money went in addition to his legal bills.

Now Now - The Clinton's had a stash of cash before taking the Oval Office (remember Hillary's commodities trading bruhaha :laugh: :rolleyes: ), but it was nowhere near what they have now. Moreover, alot of the legal fees were duer to the Clinton's own stonewalling. Can you say "I did not have sex with that woman" - I suppose, of course, I should define which adultress he was specifically referring to as their were - Lord Love Him :laugh: - many over a long period of time :woohoo: Then there were the docs that "suddenly" appeared after a big search :rolleyes: So, yes, the Clinton's had big legal bills, but they would have been significantly less if they had cooperated. I know I know - it was a witch hunt blah blah blah - but it was also a perfectly legal investigation thank you Janet Reno. So, they had a duty to cooperate and they did not. I am not questioning their right not to be forthcoming, I am just saying complaining about its cost is a little disingenuous. But, I know, I know the Clintons can do no wrong, none of it was their fault, Bill was just a victim who played no active role in the cover up, finding fault with them is tantamount to sacrilidge, yadda, yadda, yadda :laugh: :cool: :wavey:

I am just saying it is typical of Americans, esp. liberal ones, to bitch and moan about the poor never getting a break and how unfair and tilted toward the so called rich the current tax cuts are, yet everyone I know took whatever tax cut they got. I know no one at all who said I refuse to take this tax cut because it is unfair, although I really think it is unfair and will lambaste the evil R and D's who voted for it. So, I am not faulting Clinton or anyone else in the slightest for taking the tax cut they got - I certainly did. I am just pointing out all of our (everyone got a tax cut) hypocrisy. I mean if Clinton was so worried about the $5,000 he mentioned that would have paid for the airport security devices, why didn't he get a bunch of other rich people together and send they all refuse $5,000 worth of the tax cut. I mean if it was that important to him . . . . But, you and I both know that is not the way it works. People bitch and moan about how unfair the tax cuts are and how evil the oligarchs are who grant them, but no one refuses them and certainly no one sends more money than they have to to the IRS at tax time. Such is American Life.

[CarneVaca]

His speech was nothing short of brilliant. He got right to the point and showed that yes, there is a big difference between these two parties.

Sorry, I'll respond when I stop laughing. :laugh: :laugh: :lol:

[dissention]

I watched the Democratic National Convention tonight, Bill Clinton finally came on about 10:30 to an enormous response...as he walked out none other than Dont Stop played for a good 30 secs... "if you wake and dont wanna smile.." it was a great feeling....and I personally (although some will disagree, thats ok) felt on overwhelming positive and optimistic feeling coming from politicians I have never felt in my life...and having Fleetwood Mac music along with that made it all the better...wow

Chris

I totally agree. I got all warm and fuzzy last night while I watched the convention. It kinda depressed me because it reminded me of what we once had and then I got to thinking about our country at the present. It was disheartening, but the positive theme of the convention is amazing. This is the best convention I've ever witnessed and it sure is energizing.

I just got in Boston this morning, so expect lots of coverage from my sorry ass. :laugh:

[hayley]

I can't remember the exact quote, but when he said something to the effect of "strength and wisdom are not opposing ideals" in regard to the war in Iraq and terrorism, I wanted to do a victory dance.

It was an amazing speech. If he can't run again, couldn't he at least be vice-president?? ;-)

[CarneVaca]

nevertheless he had some great points....

Enlighten us. What were they?

[dissention]

His speech was nothing short of brilliant. He got right to the point and showed that yes, there is a big difference between these two parties.
President Carter was quite effective as well.

It was brilliant and it was genius for him to make that remark about how he and Bush dodged service. My jaw dropped. And Carter was devastating.

[CarneVaca]

President Clinton left the Oval Office with over $1million in legal bills from the Ken Starr witch hunt. He's never had any real money to speak of in his life and has finally managed to accumulate some through his book deal and speaking engagements post presidency.

This I agree with. You know, if he'd had enough money to pay a discreet hooker who didn't go blabbing to a friend, his presidency might have been saved.

[dissention]

This I agree with. You know, if he'd had enough money to pay a discreet hooker who didn't go blabbing to a friend, his presidency might have been saved.

In the eyes of the American people, there was nothing wrong with his presidency. His approval rating upon leaving office was higher than Ronald Reagan.

[dissention]

I liked that part too. I thought he gave a great speech - one of his best, and that is saying a mouthfull. Interestingly, as much as he bitched about the tax cut, I but he still took it :rolleyes: In fact, I know of no one who refused it or anyone who pays more than they have to pay :laugh: Alas, the hypocrisy of America :cool:

The hypocrisy of America is that the country bitches about being taxed too much, when in all actuality, America is the second LEAST taxed country in the world.

And if we don't know what Clinton did with his tax cut, we shouldn't assume. ;)

[dissention]

I am just saying it is typical of Americans, esp. liberal ones, to bitch and moan about the poor never getting a break and how unfair and tilted toward the so called rich the current tax cuts are, yet everyone I know took whatever tax cut they got. I know no one at all who said I refuse to take this tax cut because it is unfair, although I really think it is unfair and will lambaste the evil R and D's who voted for it. So, I am not faulting Clinton or anyone else in the slightest for taking the tax cut they got - I certainly did. I am just pointing out all of our (everyone got a tax cut) hypocrisy. I mean if Clinton was so worried about the $5,000 he mentioned that would have paid for the airport security devices, why didn't he get a bunch of other rich people together and send they all refuse $5,000 worth of the tax cut. I mean if it was that important to him . . . . But, you and I both know that is not the way it works. People bitch and moan about how unfair the tax cuts are and how evil the oligarchs are who grant them, but no one refuses them and certainly no one sends more money than they have to to the IRS at tax time. Such is American Life.

I love how you just make a blanket statement about how liberals used their tax cuts. You really don't know what the majority of people who got a significant tax cut did with them, so why bother? You don't know what Bill did with his, what Hillary did with hers, what Ben Affleck did with his, or what Whoopi did with hers. It's all speculation and rather absurd to say that liberals just took the money for themselves. When it came to my tax cut, everything I got from Bush's voodoo economic policies went to the ACLU and AIDs research. I feel pretty good that I actually spent money on helping AIDs, unlike this administration.

[strandinthewind]

It was brilliant and it was genius for him to make that remark about how he and Bush dodged service. My jaw dropped. And Carter was devastating.

He was brilliant and that was esp. brilliant. I esp. loved his comment about being jealous of Edwards' charisma :laugh:

The man can give a speech. Even Scarborough, who was with Chris Matthews and a few others, was like THAT is why conservatives are confounded by Bill C. He then praised Clinton and then SHOCKINGLY praised Kerry. SCARBOROUGH said Kerry's Vietnam experience proved he could act under pressure and that he would trust Kerry in the WH due to that. My jaw hit the floor as did everyone on the panel. In fact, Chris M. was like did you just say what I think you said :laugh:

Have fun at the convention!!!!!!

[strandinthewind]

I love how you just make a blanket statement about how liberals used their tax cuts. You really don't know what the majority of people who got a significant tax cut did with them, so why bother? You don't know what Bill did with his, what Hillary did with hers, what Ben Affleck did with his, or what Whoopi did with hers. It's all speculation and rather absurd to say that liberals just took the money for themselves. When it came to my tax cut, everything I got from Bush's voodoo economic policies went to the ACLU and AIDs research. I feel pretty good that I actually spent money on helping AIDs, unlike this administration.

I never commented on how anyone used their tax cuts. I commented on the fact that no one refused them - yet they bitched about them. Please read before lambasting :cool: :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

This I agree with. You know, if he'd had enough money to pay a discreet hooker who didn't go blabbing to a friend, his presidency might have been saved.

How do you know he didn't :cool:

For the record, I loved BC and I wish he was still the President. But, that does not mean he is not a lying philanderer :laugh: - it just means I could care a less about that :cool:

[dissention]

He was brilliant and that was esp. brilliant. I esp. loved his comment about being jealous of Edwards' charisma :laugh:

The man can give a speech. Even Scarborough, who was with Chris Matthews and a few others, was like THAT is why conservatives are confounded by Bill C. He then praised Clinton and then SHOCKINGLY praised Kerry. SCARBOROUGH said Kerry's Vietnam experience proved he could act under pressure and that he would trust Kerry in the WH due to that. My jaw hit the floor as did everyone on the panel. In fact, Chris M. was like did you just say what I think you said :laugh:

Have fun at the convention!!!!!!

I will! :xoxo: :wavey:

I employed the v-chip for the first time last night on MSNBC. It was unapologetic GOP whoring and it turned me way off. The things Tweety was saying infuriated me and Andrea Mitchell proved herself to be quite stupid about politics. Chippaquidick, eh? :laugh:

Turn off GE News and watch C-SPAN! :thumbsup:

[dissention]

For the record, I loved BC and I wish he was still the President. But, that does not mean he is not a lying philanderer :laugh: - it just means I could care a less about that :cool:

Agreed. I want the Big Dawg back. :nod: Or Hillary. Hell, even Chelsea.

[dissention]

I never commented on how anyone used their tax cuts. I commented on the fact that no one refused them - yet they bitched about them. Please read before lambasting :cool: :wavey:

:sorry:

Gimme a break, my liberal juices are flowing at an alarming rate. Glenn Close is staying at my hotel, for cripes sake. :laugh:

I have to rest before I go out, because I stayed up all ngiht watching the speeches, then had to drive here this morning and driving freaks me out. I am determined to be a delagate in '08, too.

[gldstwmn]

I can't remember the exact quote, but when he said something to the effect of "strength and wisdom are not opposing ideals" in regard to the war in Iraq and terrorism, I wanted to do a victory dance.

It was an amazing speech. If he can't run again, couldn't he at least be vice-president?? ;-)

That was beautiful, wasn't it? There's a lot of people out there who wish he could run again. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

It was brilliant and it was genius for him to make that remark about how he and Bush dodged service. My jaw dropped. And Carter was devastating.

The man has so much integrity. I love him. He said everything he needed to say in the most diplomatic of ways. he so deserved his Nobel prize.

[strandinthewind]

:sorry:

Gimme a break, my liberal juices are flowing at an alarming rate. Glenn Close is staying at my hotel, for cripes sake. :laugh:

I have to rest before I go out, because I stayed up all ngiht watching the speeches, then had to drive here this morning and driving freaks me out. I am determined to be a delagate in '08, too.

No Harm No Foul - of course!!!! :xoxo: :angel:

OMG I LOVE GLENN CLOSE (even though Patti Luponne was a better Norma Desmond and shoulda opened on Broadway instead of Close :laugh: :rolleyes: ). She is a great actress and from what I hear a great citizen - she seems to care about all involved - not just the top people!!!!! Please tell her I said hello!!!!!

[CarneVaca]

He then praised Clinton and then SHOCKINGLY praised Kerry. SCARBOROUGH said Kerry's Vietnam experience proved he could act under pressure and that he would trust Kerry in the WH due to that. My jaw hit the floor as did everyone on the panel. In fact, Chris M. was like did you just say what I think you said :laugh:

Have fun at the convention!!!!!!

Don't be so shocked, Strand. This is the media today. Cheerleaders. If Bush launches another war tomorrow, they'll be right there telling the American people how we have this amazing technology and the weapons are so accurate that they will hit only the intended targets, and aren't we just so great for fighting these "humane wars." Bull**** media. They'll be doing the same thing a month from now when the Repugnants invade New York. THis is a pep rally, and judging from the gushing posts here already, they are succeeding. But, next week something will come out about how Kerry left his poor little kitten unattended for eight hours when he was a teenager and the little thing nearly starved itself to death, and everybody will be anti-Kerry again.

By the way, the fallout of the DNC in Boston is going to be huge. Did any of these morons consider for half a second what this convention and the over-the-top security would do the city? Yesterday, restaurateurs and other businesses were complaining about no business, saying they might as well close.

Stupid.

[DrummerDeanna]

LOL...I just got to work -and we've (NPR) got a lot of people over at the DNC...so that whole thing is recorded...I walk in and they've got "Don't Stop" BLASTING through Morning Edition....very cool for me hahah...we were a'jammin!! hehe

[gldstwmn]

:sorry:

Gimme a break, my liberal juices are flowing at an alarming rate. Glenn Close is staying at my hotel, for cripes sake. :laugh:

I have to rest before I go out, because I stayed up all ngiht watching the speeches, then had to drive here this morning and driving freaks me out. I am determined to be a delagate in '08, too.

Have fun today!!! Try to find Randi for us and tell her how much we love her! Say hello to Teddy for me. ;) :lol:

[gldstwmn]

LOL...I just got to work -and we've (NPR) got a lot of people over at the DNC...so that whole thing is recorded...I walk in and they've got "Don't Stop" BLASTING through Morning Edition....very cool for me hahah...we were a'jammin!! hehe

Woohoo! :woohoo:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

It was brilliant and it was genius for him to make that remark about how he and Bush dodged service. My jaw dropped. And Carter was devastating.


I love that as well...I think it was very effective for him to bash (i guess you could call it that) himself when he bashed Bush on certain issues...I was kinda surprised about that...lol

Chris

[strandinthewind]

I love that as well...I think it was very effective for him to bash (i guess you could call it that) himself when he bashed Bush on certain issues...I was kinda surprised about that...lol

Chris

I agree - he did not really bash. he just said here is what we stand for - here is what they stand for. If you agree with them - by all means vote with them. Granted - it was spun in the D's favor, etc. - but it was not "Bush a lying SLB *(#*U)(#$%*)#$#)$" - that was refreshing in today's climate.

[CarneVaca]

The man has so much integrity. I love him. He said everything he needed to say in the most diplomatic of ways. he so deserved his Nobel prize.

Really!?

Carter certified a stolen election in the Dominican Republican in 1990

In the same year, he blackmailed Aristide of Haiti so he could get Aristide's oppnent, a US-backed dictator, in power. Of course, this all went to crap a couple of years later. And we all know what happened to Aristide a few months ago. Aristide just wouldn't play ball with American imperialists, including Carter.

In 1978, Carter sent a letter to Samoza of Nicaragua commending him for his human rights initiatives while criticizing the dictator publicly.

In 1979, he proposed military intervention in Nicaragua when the Sandinistas looked like they were about to take over. He wanted to install a US-backed junta instead of allowing the people of Nicaragua to choose a leader.

That same year, he started funding illegally the Islamic rebels in Afghanistan who later turned their attention to the US and as full-fledged terrorists knocked down the Twin Towers.

Oh, and do you know what his CIA was doing in Angola at the time? Eh, I think these examples are enough.

Nice guy, that Carter.

Meanwhile, he is busy in Venezuela making sure the current president gets thrown out in a very, very sinister "election" during which we should expect to see a US-backed megalomaniac take over. This of course will be done as Carter plays the role of unbiased election monitor. Watch what happens.

Nice guy.

[strandinthewind]

Now Now Carne - party pooper - feeling a little cynical today :laugh:

By ALL accounts, Carter has integrity. I am sure he has had to do some things that were not that great - who has not in their life. Plus, Carter plays in a game where the stakes are high and the best result is not always possible. But, on the whole, he is a man of integrity and at least he is trying to make the world a better place. So I say stop harping on the bad and look to the good!!! :cool:

[gldstwmn]

.

Nice guy.

Go piss up a rope. :wavey:

[CarneVaca]

By ALL accounts, Carter has integrity. I am sure he has had to do some things that were not that great - who has not in their life. Plus, Carter plays in a game where the stakes are high and the best result is not always possible. But, on the whole, he is a man of integrity and at least he is trying to make the world a better place. So I say stop harping on the bad and look to the good!!! :cool:

Bull****. If he truly were man of integrity he wouldn't be in Venezuela right now pushing the Bush doctrine of kicking out the socialist-leaning, elected leader of the country so that the Americans can install their puppet and seize the oil through privatization.

Wake up, man. Carter is sick-ass imperialist like Bush.

[CarneVaca]

Go piss up a rope. :wavey:

Comfort in denial. Enjoy it.

[Patti]

Comfort in denial. Enjoy it.

Well, if need be, then I will stay in my little haven of denial right now. You're welcome to try to rain on our parade all you want, but the fact remains, those were some great speeches last night. And Carter DOES have integrity. A person should be judged by the whole sum of their lives and overall he's done a lot of great things for people in need.

And count me in on the "I would vote for Clinton again in a heartbeat"!

[strandinthewind]

Bull****. If he truly were man of integrity he wouldn't be in Venezuela right now pushing the Bush doctrine of kicking out the socialist-leaning, elected leader of the country so that the Americans can install their puppet and seize the oil through privatization.

Wake up, man. Carter is sick-ass imperialist like Bush.

Here we go again :laugh: Are they gonna seize the oil like they seized the oil in Iraq. Oh - wait a minute, we did not seize the oil in Iraq and will and can not now. Hmmmmmmm - maybe that was not our intention all along :eek: Yet, it sounds good to say it.

But, I digress. My point was all politicians are like that to some degree. I mean have you ever liked any politician? If so - who. I am pretty sure that politician did bad acts as well - they all do - it is the nature of the beast because you cannot please everyone all of the time. So, I say on the whole Carter is/was a great guy. No one is perfect. No one can pass that standard :shrug: Yet, we all hold them up to it.

[CarneVaca]

You're welcome to try to rain on our parade all you want, but the fact remains, those were some great speeches last night. And Carter DOES have integrity. A person should be judged by the whole sum of their lives and overall he's done a lot of great things for people in need.

Well, there you have it. I forgot we were supposed to decide whom to vote for based on convention speeches. What was I thinking?

On Carter, delude yourself all you want. But next month, Chavez likely will get thrown out in Venezuela fully with Carter's assistance. When history looks back and sees that the Bush-backed guy whose only goal for taking power was to whore Venezuela's oil to the US and British conglomerates, do you think anyone will ever stop and question Carter's role in this election? And all the other elections that he's already poisoned?

Fortunately, not everyone is in denial about St. Jimmy:

http://www.counterpunch.org/petras07082004.html

[CarneVaca]

Here we go again :laugh: Are they gonna seize the oil like they seized the oil in Iraq. Oh - wait a minute, we did not seize the oil in Iraq and will and can not now. Hmmmmmmm - maybe that was not our intention all along :eek: Yet, it sounds good to say it.

Do you think the last chapter of this book has been written yet? Gee, Strand, I seem to recall the first time we ever crossed swords on this board was about Bush's AIDS efforts in Africa. You were adamant that this administration was doing the right thing, god bless 'em. I haven't read your post correcting yourself on that one either. I wonder when it becomes inarguable that we went into Iraq to get their oil whether you'll post about that either. That of course might take a few years.

I mean have you ever liked any politician?

Paul Wellstone.

If so - who. I am pretty sure that politician did bad acts as well - they all do -

OK. Name it.

So, I say on the whole Carter is/was a great guy. No one is perfect. No one can pass that standard :shrug: Yet, we all hold them up to it.

On the whole, he's a sneaky little bastid who started a lot conflicts for which we are still paying. Just think: No Carter decision to aid the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, no big gaping hole in the New York skyline today.

But, hey, forgive me for bringing up facts. Let's all just gush over Clinton and how great a speaker he is.

We really are a shallow nation, aren't we?

[Patti]

Well, there you have it. I forgot we were supposed to decide whom to vote for based on convention speeches. What was I thinking?


And just where did I say anyone was supposed to decide for whom to vote based on convention speeches? In answer to your rhetorical question, therefore, I don't know what you were thinking.

[CarneVaca]

And just where did I say anyone was supposed to decide for whom to vote based on convention speeches? In answer to your rhetorical question, therefore, I don't know what you were thinking.

Call it interpretive license, which I reached with my amazing powers of cognition after absorbing this:

Well, if need be, then I will stay in my little haven of denial right now. You're welcome to try to rain on our parade all you want, but the fact remains, those were some great speeches last night.

I must be some kind of genius if I can interpret from that comment that those "great speeches" are what matters.

[estranged4life]

for the mute button on the TV remote (I think it was made specifically for the muting of those same-ol' political BS speeches), who ever created the TV remote is the GREATEST genius EVER!!!

Thus I salute you in the ever popular Wayne Campbell style..."I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy"

[Patti]

Really Carne, I was only speaking for myself. I enjoyed the hell out of those speeches last night. I made up my mind long ago who I would vote for in 2004 and that was back in 2000, when Bush was appointed president.
So please take your interpretive license elsewhere. I don't appreciate your interpreting my words.

[CarneVaca]

So please take your interpretive license elsewhere. I don't appreciate your interpreting my words.

Then you must have a tough time getting trough life because, like it or not, every time you speak, someone is interpreting your words. That's the way communication works.

[Johnny Stew]

Call it interpretive license...

You might want to tread lightly with that "interpretive license" deal... it might come back to bite you on the arse. ;) :p

And I realize that I don't need to tell you, or anyone, but the whole idea of these conventions is to "rally the troops."
That's the point. So of course people are going to be excited about these speeches, and the things being said... they should be. And they should be incited to go out and vote by the things they're hearing. No matter which party's candidates they choose.

Also, the last time I looked, there wasn't a politician in existence who doesn't have some skeleton or shady deal in his closet. I'm not saying we should ignore or deny their foibles... but it happens. So it's left up to us to decide which negatives we can live with, and those that we can't live with.

Quite frankly, I couldn't have cared less who Clinton schtupped while he was President (or before or since). He didn't conduct his personal life the way I conduct mine, but when he was actually allowed to, he did a great job in office.
Not perfect, of course, but a great job nonetheless. And that's what I base my opinion on.

You want change... I want change... but unrelenting cynicism isn't going to bring about that change.
Like your hero says, "We have to fight for the positive choice." I choose to be positive, and to look for the good in people (when it's there), and I'm voting in November for the man who, while imperfect, has more good in him than our current President. :)

[Patti]

Then you must have a tough time getting trough life because, like it or not, every time you speak, someone is interpreting your words. That's the way communication works.

I completely understand how communication works, but thanks for the primer. I AM surprised I have gotten through life without you to interpret my words for me.

[CarneVaca]

You might want to tread lightly with that "interpretive license" deal... it might come back to bite you on the arse. ;) :p

Don't I know it! :eek:

And I realize that I don't need to tell you, or anyone, but the whole idea of these conventions is to "rally the troops."

No, Johnny, conventions were invented to select a ticket and write a platform. What we see today is a perverted display of self-promotion that does the voters absolutely no good. You must stop at some point and ask yourself why half the electorate doesn't bother to vote. This is one of the reasons. Too much show; not enough substance. Believe it.

Also, the last time I looked, there wasn't a politician in existence who doesn't have some skeleton or shady deal in his closet.

I know a few. But I'll say it again, Paul Wellstone. If you know of any skeletons in his closet, please share. Otherwise, I would hope you would take that back.

[puote]Quite frankly, I couldn't have cared less who Clinton schtupped while he was President (or before or since). [/quote]

You get 10 points for using one of my favorite words. :D

You want change... I want change... but unrelenting cynicism isn't going to bring about that change.

Not cynicism, Johnny. I would be cynical if I were here lambasting the Democrats and then voting for the lesser of two evils, not to mention hypocritical. Just being a realist. It offends my sense of fairness that Jimmy Carter gets hailed as some kind of human-rights hero when he is anything but. He started a lot of crap that we're still paying for, and will be paying for in years to come. And as we speak, he is pressuring the duly elected government of Venezuela so that the Bush-backed puppets take over the government and hand over the oil to the megacorporations. I'm not making this up, folks.

Like your hero says, "We have to fight for the positive choice."

I'm sure you were being funny, but Lindsey Buckingham is not even close to being my hero.

[CarneVaca]

I completely understand how communication works, but thanks for the primer. I AM surprised I have gotten through life without you to interpret my words for me.

:shrug: I dunno. But if you need any help, let me know. :D

[strandinthewind]

Do you think the last chapter of this book has been written yet? Gee, Strand, I seem to recall the first time we ever crossed swords on this board was about Bush's AIDS efforts in Africa. You were adamant that this administration was doing the right thing, god bless 'em. I haven't read your post correcting yourself on that one either. I wonder when it becomes inarguable that we went into Iraq to get their oil whether you'll post about that either. That of course might take a few years.

Bush did call for funding of AIDS medication to Africa. Has that changed? If it has, I do not remember it. I do rememeber Congress refusing to fund it - but that is not dispositive of W changing his mind. Congress is a sep. body. So, if I am wrong and W changed his mind, so be it. I stand corrected.

As for the oil, there is no way that W can take it and make it America's oil. I know that and you know that. But, if it makes you feel better to keep asserting it, go ahead. AND - the minute the US says "Iraqi oil is ours" I will be first in line to say I am wrong. But that has not happened. In fact, the contrary has happened. We gave Iraq billions to rebuild (I know I know we blew them up, the years of santions had weakened the nation, we owed it to them, blah blah blah) - we are not asking to be paid back. So, when you can show me the US has taken the Iraqi's oil and made it our own, I will gladly capitulate. Until then, I believe I am correct in what I assert.

As for Paul Wellstone. I do not know that much about him, but if you say so, great. He is one out of how many. I suggest, the vast majority have done what some would consider bad acts. That is why I still say I look to the person as a whole. But, others do not and that is their right - who am I to keep them down.

[CarneVaca]

As for the oil, there is no way that W can take it and make it America's oil. I know that and you know that. But, if it makes you feel better to keep asserting it, go ahead. AND - the minute the US says "Iraqi oil is ours" I will be first in line to say I am wrong. But that has not happened. In fact, the contrary has happened. We gave Iraq billions to rebuild (I know I know we blew them up, the years of santions had weakened the nation, we owed it to them, blah blah blah) - we are not asking to be paid back. So, when you can show me the US has taken the Iraqi's oil and made it our own, I will gladly capitulate. Until then, I believe I am correct in what I assert.

Jason, you brought up the Iraq oil issue, remember? I was pointing out that Carter is involved in some shady stuff going on in Venezuela. Do you want to deal with those facts or stick your head in the sand? Wouldn't it be nice if the American public for once were paying attention so perhaps they could pressure its government into avoiding another disaster? But I'll bet you 99 percent of people who post here haven't paid attention to what is going on in Venezuela and how that illustrates perfectly our wrongheaded policies that inevitably and invariably come back to bite us in the ass. To wit, two former CIA agents said this about the 9/11 commission report:

But overall, the commission's categorical statements paint a bleak picture, describing a situation that allegedly cannot improve for decades. Many of us would argue the contrary case, that if the U.S. actually changed its foreign policies, seriously addressed legitimate grievances of Arabs and Muslims on the Palestine-Israel issue, and ceased its drive for political and economic domination over their areas of the world -- the very grievances the commission acknowledges are widespread in the Muslim world -- we could reduce the threat of terrorism against us in far less time. In addition, many of us believe that, unless the U.S. does change its foreign policies, the threat, and the actuality, of a heightened level of terrorism, and probably of nuclear warfare as well, against us and our allies will persist far longer than just decades. Given that fewer than 300 million people now reside in the U.S., whereas the rest of the world's population, at 6 billion, is 20 times as large, American leaders today are playing an unwinnable hand and their drive for global domination is doomed beyond the very short term.

http://www.counterpunch.com/

Notice the part I bolded. This is what I've been saying for years. When we stick our noses in the business of other nations it is always with self-interest foremost, meaning to line the pockets of the corporations, and in the case of Muslim extremism, the retribution has been particularly harsh. What I bolded above is not only reflective of how Muslim nations feel about us, but also the peoples of South America, Asia and other places where we have exploited natural resources and colluded with ruthless dictators. I'm merely pointing out that the man you admire so much, Jimmy Carter, is working so hard in Venezuela to aid the American-backed opposition to get Chavez out of power. Keep in mind the Bushers already tried to depose him once through a failed coup.

All I'm saying is that Americans need to learn the truth, face up to it and start trying to correct these issues. Sanctifying Jimmy Carter, who is responsible for far more death wholesale so far than Dubya, only serves to perpetuate the misguided policies that put us in a very negative light before the rest of the world. Don't you think folks outside our borders know what's going on in Venezuela? Don't you think they know what really went on in Haiti a few months ago? And they have pretty good memories too. Especially the Muslim extremists.

[gldstwmn]

Well, if need be, then I will stay in my little haven of denial right now. You're welcome to try to rain on our parade all you want, but the fact remains, those were some great speeches last night. And Carter DOES have integrity. A person should be judged by the whole sum of their lives and overall he's done a lot of great things for people in need.

And count me in on the "I would vote for Clinton again in a heartbeat"!

Thank you. I don't have the time or the strength right now. :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

I am not saying and have not said Carter did not do those things. What I said was all politicians have to do bad things when they reach a certain level. If those are bad things (I do not have the time to research it from all sides) - then so be it. I think they pale in comparison to the good Carter has done both locally here in Ga and in the world in general. That is what I said. That is how I addressed your point. Clear now :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

Also, the "sticking our noses in" argument is a little disingenuous. Do you really think if the US pulled every single interest out of the Middle East (Isreal included) that would stop the violence. The extremists would see that only as an advantage to attack us more. These people are sick and irrationale. Moreover, the minute the US does not help someone, those people hate us for that. We are damned if we do and damned if we do not. But, I do agree with you that our policies need to be changed. It is how they need to be changed I am unsure.

[dontlookdown]

ah.......

How nice it was to hear a voice of reason - in both Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

It's easy to forget what thoughtful intelligent speakers can be like after four years of wincing everytime Shrub opens his mouth.

Although I have to admit, I winced when I heard the opening chords of Don't Stop - it's the only Fleetwood Mac song I've never liked - since the day I first heard it in 1976.


Godspeed John Kerry to the White House. We can't wait any longer.......

[dontlookdown]

Looking forward to Ron Reagan Jr's speech tonight - I'm sure the Repubs will be tuning in

[CarneVaca]

I am not saying and have not said Carter did not do those things. What I said was all politicians have to do bad things when they reach a certain level. If those are bad things (I do not have the time to research it from all sides) - then so be it. I think they pale in comparison to the good Carter has done both locally here in Ga and in the world in general. That is what I said. That is how I addressed your point. Clear now :wavey:

Why does Carter have to mess with Venezuelan politics right now, Jason?

[Johnny Stew]

You must stop at some point and ask yourself why half the electorate doesn't bother to vote. This is one of the reasons. Too much show; not enough substance. Believe it.

Working in a public library, I have an opportunity to discuss many topics with many people (you'd be amazed at the dialogues you can have just by asking someone, "What did you think of that book?"), and from my conversations and observations, the number one reason people don't vote is that they feel "one vote doesn't make a difference."
I hear this time and time again. If they feel that a candidate is a sure-thing to win (whether they're happy about that or unhappy about that), they feel it doesn't matter whether or not they vote.

Another thing I observe, is cynicism... "all politicians are crooks, who are out to screw the little guy."
So they just don't care to waste their time following the election process or learning about the various candidates.

So I think if more people could be given a sense of hope, and if their interest could be sparked, then we'd have a higher voter turn out.
And I totally believe that this is why Clinton was so highly regarded, and is STILL so highly regarded... he very charismatically gave people something to be optimistic about.
"Don't Stop" was the PERFECT song for Clinton, because it summed up his message in the catchiest way possible: Times have been rough, and many of us have had it tough, but don't stop thinking about the promise of a better tomorrow... and with me by your side, we're going to bring about that "better tomorrow." (Like how I came back around to the topic of this thread? *hehehe*)



I know a few. But I'll say it again, Paul Wellstone. If you know of any skeletons in his closet, please share. Otherwise, I would hope you would take that back.

I don't know too terribly much about Wellstone, beyond the fact that his untimely death was much lamented as a great loss, so I'm unable to point to any skeletons in his closet.
But I did find this article, which falls under the "no one is perfect in everyone's eyes" category.... The Seduction of Paul Wellstone (http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/power_plays/2001/01/powerplays_wellstone.html)... and discusses the view that he had backed down from a lot of his earliest campaign promises, and had become "just another career politician."



It offends my sense of fairness that Jimmy Carter gets hailed as some kind of human-rights hero when he is anything but. He started a lot of crap that we're still paying for, and will be paying for in years to come. And as we speak, he is pressuring the duly elected government of Venezuela so that the Bush-backed puppets take over the government and hand over the oil to the megacorporations. I'm not making this up, folks.

Name me a president in the last 30-40 years who hasn't done something that we're still paying for today.
Even the "good guys" aren't perfect and make less-than-noble decisions sometimes. But out of the past half-dozen or so Presidents, Carter still stands out as a good man.


I'm sure you were being funny, but Lindsey Buckingham is not even close to being my hero.

I'm sorry... calling Lindsey your hero was based on interpretive license gathered from reading your various compliments and defenses of him over the past few years. (See, I told you that would come back to haunt you!) ;)

[CarneVaca]

Also, the "sticking our noses in" argument is a little disingenuous.

Disingenous? Please enlighten me on how that is disingenuous.

Do you really think if the US pulled every single interest out of the Middle East (Isreal included) that would stop the violence.

Stop trafficking weapons. Start trafficking food, Jason. Stop exploiting, start helping to educate. Stop backing repressive dictators, start backing democratic political processes. Yes, after some years of doing this, the violence would stop.

The extremists would see that only as an advantage to attack us more. These people are sick and irrationale.

What's so irrational about perceiving that you've been aggrieved by a superpower and striking back? That may be sick, especially considering how you strike back, but irrational? Sorry. Irrational is attacking Iraq after Saudi Arabia attacks, no?

But, I do agree with you that our policies need to be changed. It is how they need to be changed I am unsure.

Start by not giving your vote to warmongers. That's a first step.

[strandinthewind]

Why does Carter have to mess with Venezuelan politics right now, Jason?

I do not know. I am sure you are right - I do not have time to research it. My point is on the whole Carter is a good man.

[Vianna]

I watched last nigfht too-saw Hillary and Bill. Loved the Don't Stop intro.

I know it's a pep rally and I know also that the primary job the delegates have there is to get a party platform written that the majority of the Dems can support. I don't expect much of it, it's interesting to watch however.

Clinton was good last night. He was more than good. His speech was organized and to the point, unlike our friend in the White House. I don't care much for the man personally but I have to give credit where credit is due.

The main point to me is to get Bush out of the White House and his Republicans with him. It's top priority to me. Let's just hope and pray we can do that. I'm not sure Kerry can beat Bush. I'd rather they'd have waited to see if somebody better didn't emerge. Oh, well.

As to why we haven't more candidates of upstanding moral integrity I believe that a lot of those kinds of people don't want to run given the situation here in America where your private life and your family's private life is going to be taken apart by the media. Some people think that their family is more important than running for office if that is what it is going to mean. I am sorry because I agree we need somebody we can look up to and say this is a good man. I used to hear my parents talk about Roosevelt and Churchill and you could tell they thought those men were true leaders. I wish I could have felt that way about somebody who has been in office during my voting years. Kennedy comes closest but even he was not that great of a leader. People can accomplish extraordinary things when led by a leader who has some sort of vision to make the world better. I just wish we could have someone like that for President.

By the way, who is Paul Wellstone?

[strandinthewind]

Again, if we left the Middle East altogether. Just packed up and came home. Gave them back the freedom and autonomy they allege we stole. If we stopped polluting their lands with our presence (their words not mine). Do you really think that act would have the effect of making everything fine there. I think it would not. Moreover, if we somehow started giving them food and clothing and educated them when their govt.'s did not, do you really think we would be seen in any other light than infidels polluting their soil. I think not. But, if you do, great. I never will. So, the question for me is how can we be there and not be considered as such. I submit as long as the irrationale and monsterous religious zealots exist, we cannot. So, we have to do the best we can, which will never be enough, etc. It is an unsolveable problem.

[CarneVaca]

. If they feel that a candidate is a sure-thing to win (whether they're happy about that or unhappy about that), they feel it doesn't matter whether or not they vote.

Another thing I observe, is cynicism... "all politicians are crooks, who are out to screw the little guy."
So they just don't care to waste their time following the election process or learning about the various candidates.

Could the cynicism have something to do with the fact that all people get is pretty speeches every four years followed by total disregard for their needs? I don't see how what you've said above counters, or negates, what I said.

So I think if more people could be given a sense of hope, and if their interest could be sparked, then we'd have a higher voter turn out.
And I totally believe that this is why Clinton was so highly regarded, and is STILL so highly regarded... he very charismatically gave people something to be optimistic about.

I won't even take the gratuitous shot at Clinton this time. But, really, if this were true, shouldn't we see a 90 percent turnout in November? You're saying these speeches give people hope, but they're still not voting. Because it's all vapid nonsense, right?

I don't know too terribly much about Wellstone, beyond the fact that his untimely death was much lamented as a great loss, so I'm unable to point to any skeletons in his closet.

Mother Jones is a commie rag. ;) I'll have to read that, Johnny.

Name me a president in the last 30-40 years who hasn't done something that we're still paying for today.
Even the "good guys" aren't perfect and make less-than-noble decisions sometimes. But out of the past half-dozen or so Presidents, Carter still stands out as a good man.

But that's just it, Johnny, a good man would not be meddling in other countries' elections under the guise of unbiased monitor. A good man would not be collaborating with the Bush spooks to get rid of the democratically elected president of a country. Do you think I'm making this up?

The point: Jimmy Carter could just retire and be done with it. But, no, he's out there pushing the imperialist agenda, working with the very people he was lambasting last night from the podium. YOU'VE BEEN DUPED!

I'm sorry... calling Lindsey your hero was based on interpretive license gathered from reading your various compliments and defenses of him over the past few years. (See, I told you that would come back to haunt you!) ;)

Aaarrgh... Well, it could be worse. You might have interpreted that Stevie is my hero.

[CarneVaca]

I do not know. I am sure you are right - I do not have time to research it. My point is on the whole Carter is a good man.


No, he's not!! That's my point. The man could just retire, attone for his sins and do nothing but good deeds.

He has chosen not to do that. He's messed with Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela and countless other nations. WHY?

[CarneVaca]

Moreover, if we somehow started giving them food and clothing and educated them when their govt.'s did not

Never said that, Jason. You didn't read carefully enough.

It is an unsolveable problem.

No such thing. A problem is only unsolveable when the solution takes too much work.

We are headed for an all-out religious war with Islam. Make no mistake.

[CarneVaca]

I used to hear my parents talk about Roosevelt and Churchill and you could tell they thought those men were true leaders.


Eh, Churchill was bipolar boozer and Roosevelt was indicisive and petty, not to mention a womanizer.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Roosevelt is one of my favorite historical people. Of course he had flaws. We all do. But he didn't let his flaws be his downfall, as Clinton and Nixon did.

People can accomplish extraordinary things when led by a leader who has some sort of vision to make the world better. I just wish we could have someone like that for President.

I would gladly volunteer, but I am not eligible. About the only positive outcome of Ahnold's election in California might be a change to that eligibility issue.


By the way, who is Paul Wellstone?

Senator from Minnesota, the greatest public servant in a long time. Died in a plane crash.

[Patti]

:shrug: I dunno. But if you need any help, let me know. :D

Ok that made me laugh--have a great day! :wavey:

[CarneVaca]

Ok that made me laugh--have a great day! :wavey:

Oh, good. You know, I really should just stick to being the clown rather than getting all serious on people.

With that, I will take leave of this thread. It's giving me a headache.

:thumbsup:

[Johnny Stew]

Could the cynicism have something to do with the fact that all people get is pretty speeches every four years followed by total disregard for their needs? I don't see how what you've said above counters, or negates, what I said.

I knew you were going to throw that comment back at me. :p
Again, I say that these "pretty speeches" are required to show the voter where you stand, and what you hope to accomplish.
To think that a poltician is EVER going to deliver everything he promises, is to be woefully naive.

I won't even take the gratuitous shot at Clinton this time. But, really, if this were true, shouldn't we see a 90 percent turnout in November? You're saying these speeches give people hope, but they're still not voting. Because it's all vapid nonsense, right?

Well, no matter how great a speech Clinton (or anyone) might give, and no matter how much hope he might be able to instill, it's a fact of life that not everyone will be convinced or interested in "buying what he's selling."

But it's a fact of the matter, that Clinton did obviously reach enough people to get elected... twice. Not to mention leaving office with a very impressive approval rating, despite the Lewinsky and Jones scandals.

Mother Jones is a commie rag. ;)

Well, don't forget that we're considered Commies for disagreeing with the War In Iraq! :laugh:


But that's just it, Johnny, a good man would not be meddling in other countries' elections under the guise of unbiased monitor. A good man would not be collaborating with the Bush spooks to get rid of the democratically elected president of a country. Do you think I'm making this up?

The point: Jimmy Carter could just retire and be done with it. But, no, he's out there pushing the imperialist agenda, working with the very people he was lambasting last night from the podium. YOU'VE BEEN DUPED!

And yet, others might still see what he's doing as "good." It's all in the angle from which you look at it. :shrug:


Aaarrgh... Well, it could be worse. You might have interpreted that Stevie is my hero.

My interpretation of your feelings towards Stevie, is quite the opposite... but I just chalk that one up to some people never being able to see the light! ;) :p :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

No, he's not!! That's my point. The man could just retire, attone for his sins and do nothing but good deeds.

He has chosen not to do that. He's messed with Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela and countless other nations. WHY?

I assert he thinks he is trying to do good deeds and I think some of these were good deeds. From what you have said, you do not. Thus, our disagreement.

[strandinthewind]

Never said that, Jason. You didn't read carefully enough.



No such thing. A problem is only unsolveable when the solution takes too much work.

We are headed for an all-out religious war with Islam. Make no mistake.


In post 67 - you said "Stop trafficking weapons. Start trafficking food, Jason. Stop exploiting, start helping to educate. Stop backing repressive dictators, start backing democratic political processes. Yes, after some years of doing this, the violence would stop. " - that is where I go that from.

[CarneVaca]

In post 67 - you said "Stop trafficking weapons. Start trafficking food, Jason. Stop exploiting, start helping to educate. Stop backing repressive dictators, start backing democratic political processes. Yes, after some years of doing this, the violence would stop. " - that is where I go that from.

From that you got this?

I think it would not. Moreover, if we somehow started giving them food and clothing and educated them when their govt.'s did not, do you really think ...

:confused: You don't see the difference?

[strandinthewind]

From that you got this?



:confused: You don't see the difference?

I thought you were saying we should stop trying to control them for their oil and instead provide relief like food and education instead. That is what it sounded like to me. But, I see the diff. now. However, I stand by my argument that nothing we do will please the zealots in the Middle East. We could all die right here and now and they would still plot ways to disrespect our memory. They hate us that much. Note: when I say "they" - I am talking about the crazy zealots and NOT all Muslims.

[CarneVaca]

However, I stand by my argument that nothing we do will please the zealots in the Middle East. We could all die right here and now and they would still plot ways to disrespect our memory. They hate us that much. Note: when I say "they" - I am talking about the crazy zealots and NOT all Muslims.

Jason, you may be right about the zealots. But "they" wouldn't have the power they do, and would ultimately lose it, if we did some of the things I prescribed. Believe me, that kind of hate cannot be sustained if the zealots cannot find followers among people who are well fed and are given prospects in life. Just look at us Americans, for crying out loud. Do you think a third-party solution would be so outlandish if we weren't so well fed? (Overfed even, according to National Geographic.)

The Vietnamese and Japanese have every right in the world to hate us and want to destroy us. Yet, we've been able to get friendly with them.

We're all just people, after all.

[strandinthewind]

The Japanese hate us?

[CarneVaca]

The Japanese hate us?

Jason, you really need to start reading more carefully. Take a breath, then read it again:

The Vietnamese and Japanese have every right in the world to hate us and want to destroy us.

[Hawkeye]

The Vietnamese and Japanese have every right in the world to hate us and want to destroy us. Yet, we've been able to get friendly with them.



you know what, you're right. The Japenese have much better reaasons for hating us then the middle eastern people yet they don't. We dropped freaking 2 nuclear bombs incinerating thousands of inocent people. But heh I guess the Japenese are forgiving :lol:

[Hawkeye]

and back to the ORIGINAL topic I jumped out of my seat when Clinton came out to Don't Stop.

[CarneVaca]

But heh I guess the Japenese are forgiving :lol:

Could be. Or, as I suspect, they found a better way to fight back.

[strandinthewind]

you know what, you're right. The Japenese have much better reaasons for hating us then the middle eastern people yet they don't. We dropped freaking 2 nuclear bombs incinerating thousands of inocent people. But heh I guess the Japenese are forgiving :lol:

I cannot believe you are actually arguing the Japanese have just cause to hate us based on WWII - which THEY started. I am not buying that at all. THEY attacked us first, it was unprovoked, they aligned with Hitler, and they showed no signs of surrendering. So, they got what they awoke IMO. It is a little hard to feel sorry for them in that light. So, despite the horrible loss of life (it was a war after all and they certainly killed their share of our innocent civilians in Pearl Harbor), that was a war they not we started. They, not us, are to blame. Then, we helped them rebuild despite all of that and we have been on friendly status with them for well over 20 years. If they are mad still at us for ending what they started, they just need to get over it. We did not make that scene - they did.

Interestingly, I do find it strange that at least we knew the Japanese were a concrete identified enemy state. The current terrorists are not as identified. Other than Afganistan, which was harboring OBL, and SH, who certainly was a terrorist even if you do not agree with the war there. But, other than that, the rest is murky. Is Saudi Arabia a terrorist state? is Iran a terrorist state. North Korea is, but here is to hoping the Chinese will squash them if they get out of line. So, the war now is seemingly endless and without a face. That is very scary!!!!

[CarneVaca]

I cannot believe you are actually arguing the Japanese have just cause to hate us based on WWII - which THEY started. I am not buying that at all. THEY attacked us first, it was unprovoked, they aligned with Hitler, and they showed no signs of surrendering. So, they got what they awoke IMO.

True, Jason, and they are probably not the best example. I'm sure I could have come up with better ones. Oh well. But they've gotten us back, anyway, haven't they. ;)

By the way, the worst attrocities the Japanese committed in WWII were in China. They went on a horrible rampage of rape, violence and death in the city of Nanjing that had few precedents and probably has not been matched since.

So, the war now is seemingly endless and without a face. That is very scary!!!!

Yes. And both Democrats and Republicans sure know how to play to those fears.

[gldstwmn]

Looking forward to Ron Reagan Jr's speech tonight - I'm sure the Repubs will be tuning in

Nancy has declined to speak at their convention. :)

[Johnny Stew]

Looking forward to Ron Reagan Jr's speech tonight - I'm sure the Repubs will be tuning in
Nancy has declined to speak at their convention. :)

I think Nancy's lack of support for the current administration might actually prove to be a bigger blow than anything else could be.

[Keith]

i know what a lot of the working people of this country did with their tax cuts.. they paid more in gas bills, local property taxes, higher groceries, housing costs, etc.

and one day.. the ballooning deficit will catch up with us.. and it's not gonna be pretty..

[ShangriLaTroubl]

and back to the ORIGINAL topic I jumped out of my seat when Clinton came out to Don't Stop.


I had a feeling this would turn into a debate thread..o well

Chris

[gldstwmn]

I think Nancy's lack of support for the current administration might actually prove to be a bigger blow than anything else could be.

I agree. I do think that it may just be too much for her right now as well. Her christening the ship for him was a happy event. Going to the convention might just bring back too many memories. She did look very frail at the funeral.
With regard to Paula Jones,in case everyone missed it, Bill Clinton wasn't even at the Excelsior Hotel when she claims the alleged incident happened. He was at a public luncheon at the governor's mansion. It's in the Chit Chat thread in a reference I made to Joe Conason's book, The Hunting Of The President. :)

[gldstwmn]

i know what a lot of the working people of this country did with their tax cuts.. they paid more in gas bills, local property taxes, higher groceries, housing costs, etc.

and one day.. the ballooning deficit will catch up with us.. and it's not gonna be pretty..

30% got no real tax cut at all. Meanwhile, as you said, their property tax, groceries and the simple necesseties of life were on the increase. The average wage has actually decreased from a year ago.

[strandinthewind]

Well, that may be true, but the country's chief economist Alan Greenspan, who certainly qualifies as a learned opinon :shrug: , says the tax cuts provided a boost to the economy. But, as Dissention often says, tax cuts are just the primer of the pump, sound economic policy must follw to nurture the growth. Greenspan also says it is W's unsound economic policy of out of control spending on credit that has the economy on the ropes and is retarding the growth that should have come from the tax cuts. So, it is a little disingenuous to belittle the tax cuts as a non-event to the economy - if that is what was being done.

Sadly, because of W's outrageous spending on credit, tax rates will have to be heightened, which will, according to most economic theory, again retard economic growth.

Why o Why can we not have a flat tax of say 15% with no other taxes. That would put all of this to bed IMO. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - special interest groups will never allow that :rolleyes:

In any event, my point was not the effectiveness of the tax cuts. It was that people bitch and moan about how unfair they are to the poor, but I know of no one who refused their tax cut on this basis. They took the money - it does not matter on what they spent it. I think taking it without hesitation and then bitching about how unfair it is was hypocritical.

[darklinensuit]

I think Nancy's lack of support for the current administration might actually prove to be a bigger blow than anything else could be.

Sodascouts stopped supporting the current administration? A bigger blow than anything else? I KNEW her website was popular!
(Just messing with you, Nancy. ;) :laugh: :wavey: )

- Jake

[CarneVaca]

Come to think of it, this thread is appropriately titled:

Don't stop at DNC.

That's right. Keep moving to something better.

[jwd]

Johnny Stew:

I think Nancy's lack of support for the current administration might actually prove to be a bigger blow than anything else could be.

You're kidding right? I think a "bigger" blow would have ben if someone like John McCain threw his support to Kerry instead of to Bush. THAT would have made some people think! :nod:

[dissention]

Well, that may be true, but the country's chief economist Alan Greenspan, who certainly qualifies as a learned opinon :shrug: , says the tax cuts provided a boost to the economy. But, as Dissention often says, tax cuts are just the primer of the pump, sound economic policy must follw to nurture the growth. Greenspan also says it is W's unsound economic policy of out of control spending on credit that has the economy on the ropes and is retarding the growth that should have come from the tax cuts. So, it is a little disingenuous to belittle the tax cuts as a non-event to the economy - if that is what was being done.

Sadly, because of W's outrageous spending on credit, tax rates will have to be heightened, which will, according to most economic theory, again retard economic growth.

Why o Why can we not have a flat tax of say 15% with no other taxes. That would put all of this to bed IMO. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - special interest groups will never allow that :rolleyes:

In any event, my point was not the effectiveness of the tax cuts. It was that people bitch and moan about how unfair they are to the poor, but I know of no one who refused their tax cut on this basis. They took the money - it does not matter on what they spent it. I think taking it without hesitation and then bitching about how unfair it is was hypocritical.

Have you seen the new report on the economy? It's stalled, my dear, and it's only going to get worse by election time. ;)

Oh, and the government also just admitted that the "recession" they "inherited" wasn't even a recession at all. :p

[dissention]

I think Nancy's lack of support for the current administration might actually prove to be a bigger blow than anything else could be.

:nod:

Have you seen Capitol Hill Blue today?

Nancy Reagan to Bush: 'We Don't Support Your Re-Election'

The widow of former President, and Republican icon, Ronald Reagan has told the GOP she wants nothing to do with their upcoming national convention or the re-election campaign of President George W. Bush.
Nancy Reagan turned down numerous invitations to appear at the Republican National Convention and has warned the Bush campaign she will not tolerate any use of her or her late husbands words or images in the President’s re-election effort.

“Mrs. Reagan does not support President Bush’s re-election and neither to most members of the President’s family,� says a spokesman for the former First Lady.

Reagan’s son, Ron, spoke at the just-concluded Democratic National Convention and writes in next month’s Esquire magazine that “George W. Bush and his administration have taken normal mendacity to a startling new level far beyond lies of convenience. They traffic in big lies.�

Ron Reagan is joined by his sister Patty in opposing Bush’s re-election effort. Only brother Michael Reagan, a conservative talk show host, supports the President and claims Ron is manipulating his mother.

Unlike the other Reagan children, Michael is not Reagan’s biological child. He was adopted by Reagan during the actor’s first marriage to actress Jane Wyman and often complains that his stepmother, Nancy, likes Ron best.

“He is her favorite,� Michael Reagan told Fox News. “Ron can do no wrong. I mean, basically that's it, Ron can do no wrong.�

Ron, however, claims George W. Bush has destroyed the Republican Party his father helped build.

“My father, acting roles excepted, never pretended to be anyone but himself,� Reagan writes in Esquire. “His Republican Party, furthermore, seems a far cry from the current model, with its cringing obeisance to the religious right.�

The Reagans’ split with Bush and the party centers around stem cell research which many believe can help find a cure for Alzheimer’s, the disease that crippled President Reagan in his final years. Bush and the ultra-conservative wing of the Republican Party oppose use of new stem cells. The Reagans, with the exception of Michael, support such use.

There’s more to the feud than that, however. Nancy Reagan has told close followers she believes Bush and the current Republican leadership have divided America with their extreme views. She has told Republican leaders she wants nothing to do with the party or Bush.

During the week of Reagan’s funeral, the former First Lady “went ballistic� when she learned the Bush campaign was test marketing new ads that used Reagan’s photos and speeches in an effort to show he supported Bush and his re-election. She personally called Republican Party Chief Ed Gillespie to demand the ads be destroyed.

Republican strategists admit the ads were produced but never ran. They were pulled after scoring poorly with focus groups where viewers found them in “poor taste.�

“Mrs. Reagan doesn’t care why the ads were pulled. She just wanted to make sure they never went on the air,� says a spokesman for the First Lady. “She does care about whether or not the memory of President Reagan is used for political purposes.�

© Copyright 2004 by Capitol Hill Blue

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4935.shtml

:wavey:

[dissention]

You're kidding right? I think a "bigger" blow would have ben if someone like John McCain threw his support to Kerry instead of to Bush. THAT would have made some people think! :nod:

The Repukes can never use McCain to attack Edwards, that's for sure. Just read his glowing words about Edwards on the back of Edwards' own book.

[jwd]

dissention:

The Repukes can never use McCain to attack Edwards, that's for sure. Just read his glowing words about Edwards on the back of Edwards' own book.

Yea, and from what I understand, McCain's good friends with Kerry too. BUT, he supports Bush for President and is actively campaigning on his behalf. And I didn't see Nancy at the DNC. So who knows, maybe she's voting for Nader. :p Really doesn't matter to me, God love her! :)

[Johnny Stew]

Yea, and from what I understand, McCain's good friends with Kerry too. BUT, he supports Bush for President and is actively campaigning on his behalf.

From everything I've ever read, John McCain is not a fan of George W. at all, and his "support" is only born out of loyalty to the Republican party.

[jwd]

Johnny Stew:

From everything I've ever read, John McCain is not a fan of George W. at all, and his "support" is only born out of loyalty to the Republican party.

HYPOCRITE! :lol: I guess you could say the same thing about all the Dems too. Edwards wasn't too much of a fan of Kerry's either in the primary race, until he lost the race and was offered a spot on the ticket. Politicians, what are we going to do with them?!

[Johnny Stew]

HYPOCRITE! :lol: I guess you could say the same thing about all the Dems too. Edwards wasn't too much of a fan of Kerry's either in the primary race, until he lost the race and was offered a spot on the ticket. Politicians, what are we going to do with them?!

I tend to look at it this way... the potential candidates were not going to go out there on the campaign trail and praise and laud each other, when they're each trying to get people to support and vote for them, instead of the other guy.

[darklinensuit]

During the week of Reagan’s funeral, the former First Lady “went ballistic� when she learned the Bush campaign was test marketing new ads that used Reagan’s photos and speeches in an effort to show he supported Bush and his re-election. She personally called Republican Party Chief Ed Gillespie to demand the ads be destroyed.

The lesson still stands.
You don't mess with Nancy Reagan. :lol:

(BTW, any chance that in his campaign for governor Gary Coleman called Nancy and asked to use footage of her on Different strokes in his ads? ;) )

- Jake

[dissention]

Yea, and from what I understand, McCain's good friends with Kerry too. BUT, he supports Bush for President and is actively campaigning on his behalf. And I didn't see Nancy at the DNC. So who knows, maybe she's voting for Nader. :p Really doesn't matter to me, God love her! :)

That must be why they canceled the majority of his campaign appearances for Bush, right? He's not campaigning for Bush very much because he's such good pals of Kerry and Edwards and they know that could bite them in the ass. ;)

[jwd]

dissention:

That must be why they canceled the majority of his campaign appearances for Bush, right? He's not campaigning for Bush very much because he's such good pals of Kerry and Edwards and they know that could bite them in the ass.

To borrow a line from Christine, "lost in a world of your illusions" is what you are. We'll see what McCain has to say at the RNC. :woohoo:

[sodascouts]

Sodascouts stopped supporting the current administration? A bigger blow than anything else? I KNEW her website was popular!
(Just messing with you, Nancy. ;) :laugh: :wavey: )

- Jake

LOL! :xoxo:

[Tango]

I watched the Democratic National Convention tonight, Bill Clinton finally came on about 10:30 to an enormous response...as he walked out none other than Dont Stop played for a good 30 secs... "if you wake and dont wanna smile.." it was a great feeling....and I personally (although some will disagree, thats ok) felt on overwhelming positive and optimistic feeling coming from politicians I have never felt in my life...and having Fleetwood Mac music along with that made it all the better...wow

Chris

I watched the entire DNC on C-Span, pretty much gavel to gavel. They did a great job. One of my favorite performers was Carole King. Wow! I will also watch the RNC on C-Span. You see so much more on C-Span. But these conventions . . . it's not quite the same "party". I suspect the only music that will be played during the RNC is patriotic music as most of rock and roll (that music in particular) is associated with the DNC. Maybe some country? Maybe a little bit of Wayne Newton and "Dankeshein". :woohoo:

I don't know how true it is, but I read that Lance Armstrong has Republican leanings and Sheryl is clearly Democratic. Sort of a Mary Matlin/James Carville thing. Should be interesting to see what musical and political responses occur at the RNC. Gotta love what the DNC did for Fleetwood Mac.

[dissention]

I don't know how true it is, but I read that Lance Armstrong has Republican leanings and Sheryl is clearly Democratic. Sort of a Mary Matlin/James Carville thing. Should be interesting to see what musical and political responses occur at the RNC. Gotta love what the DNC did for Fleetwood Mac.

Mary Matalin said Cheney was sexy last week, so she's a known nutty. She needs to be reminded that beastiality is illegal in the States.

Lance is on some cancer panel, but I've read that his opinion of Shrub has turned around quite a deal and he doesn't care him these days. :)

[dissention]

To borrow a line from Christine, "lost in a world of your illusions" is what you are. We'll see what McCain has to say at the RNC. :woohoo:

Illusions? You know all about those.

He was set to campaign for Bush in three states this month, but all of it was canceled, as was two of his appearances in August. He's good friends with Kerry and has said publicly he looks down upon anyone who tries to slander him. He wrote about Edwards' book and claimed Edwards' was a great man who put others above himself. Go to a bookstore, it's printed on the back cover. ;) It is no secret that McCain hates Bush, it's known fact. Especially after Bush attacked his fmaily in '00.

Yet another case of you not knwoing what you're saying. Nothing new, I suppose.

[Tango]

Mary Matalin said Cheney was sexy last week, so she's a known nutty. She needs to be reminded that beastiality is illegal in the States.

Lance is on some cancer panel, but I've read that his opinion of Shrub has turned around quite a deal and he doesn't care him these days. :)

I dont mind your opinion, but must you be so foul? Nevermind. :cool:

[HomerMcvie]

She needs to be reminded that beastiality is illegal in the States.
Dissention, you KILL me. :lol: :lol: :lol: You are probably my favorite poster. Runners up would be Carne and Lux.
Acidic, sarcastic, supreme wit will carry you far. At least in my world. :woohoo:

[Johnny Stew]

Acidic, sarcastic, supreme wit will carry you far. At least in my world. :woohoo:

Eh, sarcastic and cynical people are a dime a dozen these days. Swing a stick and you're bound to hit an entire group of 'em. ;)

[darklinensuit]

Eh, sarcastic and cynical people are a dime a dozen these days. Swing a stick and you're bound to hit an entire group of 'em. ;)

Let's do. ;) :lol:

- Jake

[HomerMcvie]

Eh, sarcastic and cynical people are a dime a dozen these days. Swing a stick and you're bound to hit an entire group of 'em.
Only if you're lucky. Odds are, the flailing chiffon was obscuring your view. :lol: :lol:


:sorry:
Kind of.

[michelej1]

http://dailysignal.com/2015/04/13/yesterday-is-over-marco-rubio-declares-in-entering-white-house-race/

‘Yesterday Is Over,’ Marco Rubio Declares in Entering White House Race

Ken McIntyre / @KenMac55 / April 13, 2015 / The Daily Signal

Announcing his candidacy for president in his hometown of Miami, Sen. Marco Rubio this evening underlined a generational divide between himself and Democratic favorite Hillary Rodham Clinton and depicted the coming campaign as one to reach a better future and not rehash the past.

“Now, the time has come for our generation to lead the way toward a new American Century,” the Florida Republican said, adding: “This election is not just about what laws we will pass. It is a generational choice about what kind of country we will be.”

Clinton, 67, announced her long-expected bid for the White House with a video released Sunday. Without naming her, Rubio, 43, depicted the former first lady and secretary of state—and perhaps some of his GOP rivals—as old news.

“Yesterday is over,” Rubio said, “and we are never going back. We Americans are proud of our history, but our country has always been about the future.”

That declaration was an ironic if unintentional echo of Bill Clinton’s 1992 presidential campaign theme song, Fleetwood Mac’s “Don’t Stop (Thinking About Tomorrow).” Its lyrics include the refrain “Yesterday’s gone, yesterday’s gone.” Rubio is younger now than both Clinton and her husband were then.

Addressing an overflow crowd at Freedom Tower, which processed tens of thousands of Cuban immigrants in the 1960s and ’70s, Rubio declared his candidacy at 6:13 p.m., 10 minutes into his 17-minute speech.

He again told his family story in sketching out a vision of the imagination and innovation needed to restore America after what he depicted as Barack Obama’s failed presidency. His father and mother left pre-revolution Cuba in the mid-1950s to find freedom, work hard as a bartender and maid, respectively, and rise to the middle class in America.

“For almost all of human history, power and wealth belonged only to a select few. Most people who have ever lived were trapped by the circumstances of their birth, destined to live the life their parents had,” an emotional Rubio said. “But America is different. Here, we are the children and grandchildren of people who refused to accept this.

“My parents achieved what came to be known as the American Dream,” he said, adding:


But now, too many Americans are starting to doubt whether achieving that dream is still possible: Hardworking families living paycheck to paycheck, one unexpected expense away from disaster. Young Americans, unable to start a career, a business or a family, because they owe thousands in student loans for degrees that did not lead to jobs. And small business owners, left to struggle under the weight of more taxes, more regulations and more government. …

Why is this happening in a country that for over two centuries has been defined by equality of opportunity? Because while our people and economy are pushing the boundaries of the 21st century, too many of our leaders and their ideas are stuck in the 20th century.

Rubio is an advocate of tax, regulatory and education reforms that will spur jobs and lift incomes in an increasingly technology-driven economy. He will detail an ambitious, family-friendly tax measure with co-sponsor Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, in an appearance at noon Wednesday at The Heritage Foundation. His speech this evening touched on his defense of religious freedom and his pro-life, pro-family views.

[michelej1]

[From an article about David Cameron]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/donald-macintyres-sketch-theresa-may-misses-the-memo-on-sunshine-all-the-way-10176585.html

He left the stage, Clinton-like, to Fleetwood Mac’s “Don’t Stop (thinking about tomorrow).” But yesterday he unleashed the bribes as if there wasn’t one: slashing inheritance tax (violating Lloyd George's maxim that it’s best to tax people when they’re dead.) De-taxing minimum wage earners among £7.2 billion unfunded tax cuts. Multi-billion pound right to buy for housing association tenants. Cameron’s right that there’s a big difference between Labour and the Tories: Labour would never get away with it.

[michelej1]

[mock interview about candidates' favorite music]

What's on Your Spotify? The Presidential Candidates Edition

Broward Palm Beach New Times

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/music/whats-on-your-spotify-the-presidential-candidates-edition-7395964

By David Rolland Monday, November 16, 2015 | 10 hours ago

Due to complaints that America's favorite fall reality show, The Presidential Debates, has been taking too damned long, broadcasters have taken editorial liberties with some rather crucial interactions among the nominees. Though they've kept discussion on trivial topics like the economy and foreign policy, it seems one of the most pertinent questions regarding the candidates' characters has been left to the cutting-room floor: What's on their Spotify playlists?

Never fear, however, as the investigative reporters here at New Times have recovered the discarded transcripts revealing how candidates have addressed this pressing question — because we think Americans have the right to know.

Hillary Clinton

Moderator: We'll move on to Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. What songs are on your Spotify?

Hillary Clinton: As you know, Bill and I have a deep love for Fleetwood Mac.

Moderator: Yes, who can forget his campaign song in 1992 was "Don't Stop"?

Clinton: Do you think that makes me sound too old? The polls all said America wants something familiar. Don't they? If they want something new and fresh, I can also like Taylor Swift. Good ol' T-Swizzle. But that doesn't make me sound tough enough, does it? I like that new Drake song "Hotline Bling." But wait, he's Canadian, and America should come first. What is it you want me to like?

[Macfanforever]

Not to get political.I hope the candidates will pay up for using the artists/bands tunes at their functions .

I figure that Mrs C would go for FM Don't Stop for again us old supporters .Taylor Swift for the young supporters .I'm not familiar with Drake's tunes.

[bombaysaffires]

Not to get political.I hope the candidates will pay up for using the artists/bands tunes at their functions .

I figure that Mrs C would go for FM Don't Stop for again us old supporters .Taylor Swift for the young supporters .I'm not familiar with Drake's tunes.

she'll avoid Don't Stop because it invokes memories of Bill and she's trying to separate herself in people's minds from him and be evaluated on her own.

Now, if we had a new FM album with Chris, maybe she'd find a new Chris song as her anthem :)

[Macfanforever]

she'll avoid Don't Stop because it invokes memories of Bill and she's trying to separate herself in people's minds from him and be evaluated on her own.

Now, if we had a new FM album with Chris, maybe she'd find a new Chris song as her anthem :)

Yea .I agree.The timing for a new Mac song is off since nothing came up from the Mac. and also If the Mac lets her use it.I noticed lately that some of the artists are shying away on letting candidates using their tunes at their functions.

I'm so happy that the Mac 5 some got together for the Clinton's in 1992.All of us on here agree with that.

[michelej1]

she'll avoid Don't Stop because it invokes memories of Bill and she's trying to separate herself in people's minds from him and be evaluated on her own.

Now, if we had a new FM album with Chris, maybe she'd find a new Chris song as her anthem :)

Didn't she already pick a Katy Perry song as her theme?

Michele

[iamnotafraid]

Didn't she already pick a Katy Perry song as her theme?

Michele

I just saw her on CNN. They were using
Van Halen's Runnin' With The Devil.

Seemed appropriate.

[jbrownsjr]

she'll avoid Don't Stop because it invokes memories of Bill and she's trying to separate herself in people's minds from him and be evaluated on her own.

Now, if we had a new FM album with Chris, maybe she'd find a new Chris song as her anthem :)

I like the way you think!!!... (most of the time).. :xoxo:

[michelej1]

[What! There are many criticisms you can make of Don't Stop, but to say that it's a symbol of the Me Generation is simply ridiculous]

The Nation [excerpt] by  By Leslie Savan

http://www.thenation.com/article/theyve-all-come-to-look-for-hillary/

 A “yes, we can, but only around the edges” attitude is why Bill and Hillary Clinton’s political ads have rarely inspired. “Neither of the Clintons could attempt to harness the sweet, nostalgic searching of a song like America without looking ridiculous,” as Alexander Zaitchik writes in The Guardian. “There’s a reason Bill’s 1992 campaign song was Fleetwood Mac’s soulless Me Generation anthem Don’t Stop.”

Clintonian ads (like the one touting her experience that Cuomo had Bernie watch) are mostly aimed at a middle that was disappearing when Bill was first elected and largely doesn’t exist anymore. Bill got his chops at a time when Reagan dominated the map, and he and the DLC worked out a marketing style of mee-tooism: I’m a progressive person, but I’m not going to threaten business. Bill Clinton said the era of big government is over, and sacrificed Sister Souljah, the Glass-Steagall Act, and welfare as we once knew it in order to find his third way—basically, in order to harvest liberal votes while accepting corporate money.

[aleuzzi]

[What! There are many criticisms you can make of Don't Stop, but to say that it's a symbol of the Me Generation is simply ridiculous]

The Nation [excerpt] by  By Leslie Savan

http://www.thenation.com/article/theyve-all-come-to-look-for-hillary/

 A “yes, we can, but only around the edges” attitude is why Bill and Hillary Clinton’s political ads have rarely inspired. “Neither of the Clintons could attempt to harness the sweet, nostalgic searching of a song like America without looking ridiculous,” as Alexander Zaitchik writes in The Guardian. “There’s a reason Bill’s 1992 campaign song was Fleetwood Mac’s soulless Me Generation anthem Don’t Stop.”

Clintonian ads (like the one touting her experience that Cuomo had Bernie watch) are mostly aimed at a middle that was disappearing when Bill was first elected and largely doesn’t exist anymore. Bill got his chops at a time when Reagan dominated the map, and he and the DLC worked out a marketing style of mee-tooism: I’m a progressive person, but I’m not going to threaten business. Bill Clinton said the era of big government is over, and sacrificed Sister Souljah, the Glass-Steagall Act, and welfare as we once knew it in order to find his third way—basically, in order to harvest liberal votes while accepting corporate money.

It's also NOT soulless. The song has heart. Whether one likes it or loathes it, it came from a genuine place and is very much an anthem of healing.

[Macfan4life]

It's also NOT soulless. The song has heart. Whether one likes it or loathes it, it came from a genuine place and is very much an anthem of healing.
Absolutely!
Its also wrong that the author of that article classified the 70's as a "Me generation" That was the 80's. The 70's was about sharing and teaching the world to sing in perfect harmony :)

[Macfanforever]

Absolutely!
Its also wrong that the author of that article classified the 70's as a "Me generation" That was the 80's. The 70's was about sharing and teaching the world to sing in perfect harmony :)

That reminds me of the old Coke ad from the 1970's.<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/csEXmU14N28" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wRbQ-y-FxTg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[aleuzzi]

Absolutely!
Its also wrong that the author of that article classified the 70's as a "Me generation" That was the 80's. The 70's was about sharing and teaching the world to sing in perfect harmony :)

Technically, from common historical perspective, the 70s is classed as the decadent "ME" generation. (It was in comparison to the social consciousness and activism that is associated with the 60s.) But you are right to note that the aggressive capitalism, trickle down economics, and reactionary politics of the 80s make the 70s look morally and spiritually superior in just about every way.

[michelej1]

Yahoo, The 20 Best Presidential Inauguration Performances of All Time

Chris Willman Writer January 12, 2017

https://www.yahoo.com/music/the-20-best-presidential-inauguration-performance-of-all-time-000735614.html

2. Fleetwood Mac, for Bill Clinton (1993)

The legacy lineup of Fleetwood Mac had not performed with Christine McVie in tow in nine years, and even then, doing “Don’t Stop” for the Clintons wasn’t an entirely easy sell to the entire band. “This is pretty much a one-off thing, as far as I’m concerned,” Lindsey Buckingham declared at the time. “In fact, if we had been asked to do much more than the one song, I don’t know if I would have been able to do that.” Tell us how enthusiastic you really feel, Lindsey! But even when not every feeling has been smoothed over, it’s hard to resist when the first member of your favored party to be elected in 18 years adopted your song as a campaign anthem and wants a live reading as a victory anthem. It paved the way for a resumption of affections after all, as the classic Mac lineup got back together a more productive year or two in ’97.

[MikeInNV]

Yahoo, The 20 Best Presidential Inauguration Performances of All Time

Chris Willman Writer January 12, 2017

https://www.yahoo.com/music/the-20-best-presidential-inauguration-performance-of-all-time-000735614.html

2. Fleetwood Mac, for Bill Clinton (1993)

The legacy lineup of Fleetwood Mac had not performed with Christine McVie in tow in nine years, and even then, doing “Don’t Stop” for the Clintons wasn’t an entirely easy sell to the entire band. “This is pretty much a one-off thing, as far as I’m concerned,” Lindsey Buckingham declared at the time. “In fact, if we had been asked to do much more than the one song, I don’t know if I would have been able to do that.” Tell us how enthusiastic you really feel, Lindsey! But even when not every feeling has been smoothed over, it’s hard to resist when the first member of your favored party to be elected in 18 years adopted your song as a campaign anthem and wants a live reading as a victory anthem. It paved the way for a resumption of affections after all, as the classic Mac lineup got back together a more productive year or two in ’97.

Math is not this person's strong point.

[FuzzyPlum]

Math is not this person's strong point.

I suppose it should have read 'had not performed live with Lindsey Buckingham in tow for 9 years...'
Even then its wrong as it would have been 11 years.

Anyway, looking back...is there anyone that didn't perform for Bill Clinton in'93?

[MikeInNV]

I suppose it should have read 'had not performed live with Lindsey Buckingham in tow for 9 years...'
Even then its wrong as it would have been 11 years.

And it had been 16 years since the last election of a Democrat, not 18.

[singertobe]

His speech was nothing short of brilliant. He got right to the point and showed that yes, there is a big difference between these two parties.
President Carter was quite effective as well.

Carter is still alive?:shocked:

[HomerMcvie]

Carter is still alive?:shocked:

If you'd watched the inauguration, you'd know that. He was there. And not in a casket. :rolleyes:

[SisterNightroad]

If you'd watched the inauguration, you'd know that. He was there. And not in a casket. :rolleyes:
I think she wasn't around at the time, or was a toddler.

[HomerMcvie]

I think she wasn't around at the time, or was a toddler.

Two days ago? Talk about developing at a fast pace!!! Wowza!:rolleyes::D

[SisterNightroad]

Two days ago? Talk about developing at a fast pace!!! Wowza!:rolleyes::D
Oh I thought about the other inauguration.

[HomerMcvie]

Oh I thought about the other inauguration.

I know. My posts drip of sarcasm. :angel:

[SisterNightroad]

I know. My posts drip of sarcasm. :angel:
Yeah, I noticed, I suggest a slightly less acidic diet.

[HomerMcvie]

Yeah, I noticed, I suggest a slightly less acidic diet.

Tacos and beer. That's IT.:cool:

[SisterNightroad]

Tacos and beer. That's IT.:cool:
Too 'Murican for me.

[HomerMcvie]

Too 'Murican for me.

Haha, I never noticed you were in Italy. No wonder you didn't watch the inauguration!

[singertobe]

Too 'Murican for me.

Too non-vegan for me ;)

[jbrownsjr]

Haha, I never noticed you were in Italy. No wonder you didn't watch the inauguration!

She and I are italian girls.

[SisterNightroad]

Haha, I never noticed you were in Italy. No wonder you didn't watch the inauguration!
Really? I thought my frequent sexual jokes and mockery of various elements of the American culture gave away at least that I am European.

Too non-vegan for me ;)
I think there can be vegan tacos or you can try creating them in case you want to be very 'Murican.

She and I are italian girls.

http://www.hilariousgifs.com/i/tZOS8.gif

[gldstwmn]

Too 'Murican for me.
Not 'Murican although he was there too... They are of Mexican descent. You may want to hurry up and try them. There's going to be a wall you know. :shocked:

[SisterNightroad]

Not 'Murican although he was there too... They are of Mexican descent. You may want to hurry up and try them. There's going to be a wall you know. :shocked:
I'm afraid the Atlantic Ocean is too big of a deal for me.
I made some of my own once, they're good but don't fill me up alone, they were actually just the first course, followed by a portion of bean soup and a fruit tiramisu in a full meal like it's customary in my country.

[gldstwmn]

I'm afraid the Atlantic Ocean is too big of a deal for me.
I made some of my own once, they're good but don't fill me up alone, they were actually just the first course, followed by a portion of bean soup and a fruit tiramisu in a full meal like it's customary in my country.
I don't blame you. If you can eat authentic Italian food all the time, why go anywhere else? Fruit Tiramisu sounds delicious!

[Ledge Moderators]

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[HomerMcvie]

I'm just glad I was able to save the pic for use elsewhere, before it was deleted! :p

[AlexD]

Friendly Reminder: Please keep the focus on music and not politics. Overtly political posts will be removed. Any questions or concerns, please private message a moderator.

Get these Liberal Commies off The Ledge!

[Dr.Brown]

Get these Liberal Commies off The Ledge!

Oddly enough, the article below mentions that at one point in the late 70's Fleetwood Mac was tabbed to perform three concert dates in Moscow. Obviously, never happened though.

http://www.nytimes.com/1978/06/14/archives/ussr-rock-concert.html?_r=0