Pentagon "accidentally" destroys Bush's military records

[DeeGeMe]

From the NY Times this morning:

"Military records that could help establish President Bush's whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard more than 30 years ago have been inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.

It said the payroll records of "numerous service members," including former First Lt. Bush, had been ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No back-up paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25.

The loss was announced by the Defense Department's Office of Freedom of Information and Security Review in letters to The New York Times and other news organizations that for nearly half a year have sought Mr. Bush's complete service file under the open-records law.

There was no mention of the loss, for example, when White House officials released hundreds of pages of the President's military records last February in an effort to stem Democratic accusations that he was "AWOL" for a time during his commitment to fly at home in the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.

Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director who has said that the released records confirmed the president's fulfillment of his National Guard commitment, did not return two calls for a response."

More here at
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/09/politics/campaign/09records.html

But you'll have to register to see the story.

[Patti]

You've got to be kidding me. I'm really surprised at this announcement, even though I know I shouldn't be. What a dirty, corrupt bunch "running" our country. I'm disgusted.

Patti

[Jason T.]

Is this really suprising at all? I mean, this is the same man who basically robbed the last election, took us to war on a lie, and all while not being able to speak English properly...still there hasn't been action taken against him. Clinton does a couple of personal immoralities (and people) and suddenly we have an investigation because we just cannot have that now...can we? It makes me sick...seriously.

The Right claims to be so moral and all...I'll shut up now...that seems to be the thing that people have to do these days with that dictator in office, right Natalie Maines??? lol...I shouldn't let Bush ruin every other day for me like this... :mad:

[gldstwmn]

Bull****! They were not "inadvertently destroyed." Busllhsit, bull****, bull****. The Propaganda Ministry is at it again. :mad:

[gldstwmn]

Is this really suprising at all? I mean, this is the same man who basically robbed the last election, took us to war on a lie, and all while not being able to speak English properly...still there hasn't been action taken against him. Clinton does a couple of personal immoralities (and people) and suddenly we have an investigation because we just cannot have that now...can we? It makes me sick...seriously.



That's because all branches of our government are being run by one party. It's not supposed to be that way. VOTE THEM OUT!

[Merf]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:rolleyes:

[gldstwmn]

FYI, average shelf life of microfilm is 500 YEARS.

[gldstwmn]

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/005292.html

Retired National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett said Tuesday that in 1997, then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, told the National Guard chief to get the Bush file and make certain "there's not anything there that will embarrass the governor."

Col. Burkett said that a few days later at Camp Mabry in Austin, he saw Mr. Bush's file and documents from it discarded in a trash can. He said he recognized the documents as retirement point summaries and pay forms.

Bush aides denied any destruction of records in Mr. Bush's personnel file. "The charges are just flat-out not true," said Dan Bartlett, White House communications director. He said the president has been forthright in producing all documents relevant to his stint in the Texas Air National Guard, from 1968 to 1973. He dismissed Col. Burkett as a disgruntled former officer of the Texas Guard. Mr. Allbaugh, now a Washington lobbyist, called Col. Burkett's assertions "hogwash."

[dissention]

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/005292.html

Retired National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett said Tuesday that in 1997, then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, told the National Guard chief to get the Bush file and make certain "there's not anything there that will embarrass the governor."

Col. Burkett said that a few days later at Camp Mabry in Austin, he saw Mr. Bush's file and documents from it discarded in a trash can. He said he recognized the documents as retirement point summaries and pay forms.

He was on MSNBC in January and said those exact things. :nod:

This is all utter ****. They either destroyed them on purpose or they still have them but are saying they're gone. Bastards.

[estranged4life]

What a crock of ca-ca!!!!

Man, Our government sure loves to destroy and/or lose doctuments when something is questioned.

Brian "Dontcha love my new avatar?" j.

[DeeGeMe]

That's because all branches of our government are being run by one party. It's not supposed to be that way. VOTE THEM OUT!

I just got back from seeing 9/11 (it took it this look to make it to my GOP run hometown). And you know--I'm so mad right now that I swear I think I'm voting for Nader in protest. I live in a solid Bush state anyway and it's not like my vote is going to matter. And it's not like I didn't know this stuff but I've spent so much of my time focused on my anger towards the current administration in the past four years that I've failed to see that the Democrats were at least partially to blame for the mess too. How in the world did the Democratic party play dead and let the Bushies roll over them? Why didn't our press stand up? Why have they not persecuted this president they way they did Clinton? If Clinton would have tried to get away with one milli-percentage of the **** that Bush has gotten away with--they would have drawn & quartered him and publically beheaded him in the middle of Pennsylvania Avenue!

[strandinthewind]

And it's not like I didn't know this stuff but I've spent so much of my time focused on my anger towards the current administration in the past four years that I've failed to see that the Democrats were at least partially to blame for the mess too. How in the world did the Democratic party play dead and let the Bushies roll over them?


AHHHHHH my point exactly.

It just brings me back to my thought that politics is ALWAYS about the polls no matter how sincere a politician looks when they are telling you differently. Slimy business no doubt :mad:

[DeeGeMe]

I've calmed down some since seeing 9/11 earlier this afternoon. I refuse to NOT participate because I'm cynical about the system. I think the biggest mistake that the Democrats ever made was swinging to the right and turning off their core base. They also allowed Repugs to make liberal into a four-letter word. Howard Dean was able to energize the base and bring new people into the Democratic party because he appealed to these voters. And that's what the Democrats are going to have to do to win again. And instead of becoming cynical about the process, more people have got to get involved. The percentage of Americans not voting in this country is a national disgrace. The problem is that the American people do not hold politicans accountable. They're more interested in voting for American Idol than they are for politicans. And that's an even bigger disgrace. I for one, refuse to become cynical about the process and I will always hold the politicans that serve me accountable for their actions. I do not hesitate to pick up the phone or send them an e-mail to let them know how I feel about the issues and I encourage everyone to do the same.

[amber]

I just got back from seeing 9/11 (it took it this look to make it to my GOP run hometown). And you know--I'm so mad right now that I swear I think I'm voting for Nader in protest. I live in a solid Bush state anyway and it's not like my vote is going to matter. And it's not like I didn't know this stuff but I've spent so much of my time focused on my anger towards the current administration in the past four years that I've failed to see that the Democrats were at least partially to blame for the mess too. How in the world did the Democratic party play dead and let the Bushies roll over them? Why didn't our press stand up? Why have they not persecuted this president they way they did Clinton?
Sweetie, round my neck of the family, we call them demopublicans, and everything in the world is controlled by money and power over resources and that includes the media...I remember when I was still suprised and disillusioned, when i was about 8 or 9... :rolleyes:
Buck up!
Amber

[amber]

I've calmed down some since seeing 9/11 earlier this afternoon. I refuse to NOT participate because I'm cynical about the system. I think the biggest mistake that the Democrats ever made was swinging to the right and turning off their core base. They also allowed Repugs to make liberal into a four-letter word. Howard Dean was able to energize the base and bring new people into the Democratic party because he appealed to these voters. And that's what the Democrats are going to have to do to win again. And instead of becoming cynical about the process, more people have got to get involved. The percentage of Americans not voting in this country is a national disgrace. The problem is that the American people do not hold politicans accountable. They're more interested in voting for American Idol than they are for politicans. And that's an even bigger disgrace. I for one, refuse to become cynical about the process and I will always hold the politicans that serve me accountable for their actions. I do not hesitate to pick up the phone or send them an e-mail to let them know how I feel about the issues and I encourage everyone to do the same.
Thank God! Way ta be...
Amber

[Jason T.]

That's because all branches of our government are being run by one party. It's not supposed to be that way. VOTE THEM OUT!

I so wish I could -- but I don't turn eighteen until December (19th *shameless birthday promotion*) and I think Bush probably had something to do with that too...lol, Lord knows he manages to get away with everything else.

[dissention]

I just got back from seeing 9/11 (it took it this look to make it to my GOP run hometown). And you know--I'm so mad right now that I swear I think I'm voting for Nader in protest.

Voting for Nader?! Are you coked out of your gourd?!

Listen, I had the utmost respect for Nader up until a few weeks ago. Sure, he's an egomaniac, but he's done a lot of good for this country. More than even some politicians. However, his desperation and fight to stay relevant has turned me off BIG TIME. I've lost my respect for the man and it will never be restored.

Firstly, he teamed up with the Newmanites. Those are biggest whack jobs this side of Republicans. Truly scary people, trust me, I've met some. Newman has his own little cult of neo-Manson followers. Secondly, he's welcoming Republican support with open arms to get on some state ballots. That's the straw that broke the camels back. He's GLADLY accepting support from the very people he despises and rails against. He's shown his true colors and I don't like him.

Nader has gone insane and anyone who votes fro him is wasting their vote on a man who cares more about getting those votes than staying true to his beliefs. He's become a political whore and it's unbecoming.

[dissention]

I've calmed down some since seeing 9/11 earlier this afternoon. I refuse to NOT participate because I'm cynical about the system. I think the biggest mistake that the Democrats ever made was swinging to the right and turning off their core base. They also allowed Repugs to make liberal into a four-letter word. Howard Dean was able to energize the base and bring new people into the Democratic party because he appealed to these voters. And that's what the Democrats are going to have to do to win again. And instead of becoming cynical about the process, more people have got to get involved. The percentage of Americans not voting in this country is a national disgrace. The problem is that the American people do not hold politicans accountable. They're more interested in voting for American Idol than they are for politicans. And that's an even bigger disgrace. I for one, refuse to become cynical about the process and I will always hold the politicans that serve me accountable for their actions. I do not hesitate to pick up the phone or send them an e-mail to let them know how I feel about the issues and I encourage everyone to do the same.

I agree 100%, but I'm willing to allow a Democrat get in there this January if it means Bush is gone. Bush has done more damage than a spineless Democrat could on their worst day, don't forget that.

Kerry himself is losing a lot of the far-left vote because he's trying to doggedly avoid being associated with them and they see it as abandonment. And it is. But those far-lefties (the stupid ones) are going to vote for Nader and are willing to forgive hium for his current political affiliations. But not this one. This far-lefty is voting Kerry and proudly.

PS: I think one of the most effective things in F9/11 is how no Senator would sign the protest bill. It's was abhorrent. And they have no right to say the election was stolen, they did nothing.

[DeeGeMe]

Voting for Nader?! Are you coked out of your gourd.

Calm down Disesention. I'm absolutely voting for Kerry/Edwards no matter what. And I've already donated to their campaign. But I am disgusted with how not one single senator spoke up and opposed that whole vote farce. Or had the balls to oppose this administration on the whole Iraq thing.

And I do absolutely hope and pray that the Naderites come to their senses and vote for Kerry-we've got to get Bush out of office. So far, Nader isn't on a single state ballot although the repugs are secretly funding his campaign and are trying to pull strikes in the battleground states to get him on the ballot.

[strandinthewind]

Calm down Disesention . . . .

lol - Don't you know by NOW that the mere mention of a certain large jowled Pentacostal preacher man with the initials JF, Nader, and any praise whatsoever in any degree even if you later take it back for W invokes the wrath :eek: :nod: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Calm down Disesention. I'm absolutely voting for Kerry/Edwards no matter what. And I've already donated to their campaign. But I am disgusted with how not one single senator spoke up and opposed that whole vote farce.

My understanding of that is that Gore himself could have cast the vote as President of the Senate that would have made him POTUS. However, he wanted to avoid what he felt might be the impropriety of that. So it went down like it did in that horrifying scene in the movie. Did you notice that most of the Congressmen, if not all, in that scene were black? I think that was Moore's point. The black voters (esp. in Florida) got screwed over bad in 2000.
As for Nader, Ideologues don't make good presidents. Just look at Cheney. :)

[dissention]

Calm down Disesention. I'm absolutely voting for Kerry/Edwards no matter what. And I've already donated to their campaign. But I am disgusted with how not one single senator spoke up and opposed that whole vote farce. Or had the balls to oppose this administration on the whole Iraq thing.

And I do absolutely hope and pray that the Naderites come to their senses and vote for Kerry-we've got to get Bush out of office. So far, Nader isn't on a single state ballot although the repugs are secretly funding his campaign and are trying to pull strikes in the battleground states to get him on the ballot.

I agree with all of that. :laugh: Nader f*cked up REALLY badly by ignoring the Greens. And then he had the gall to request their endorsement. The Greens were OFFENDED by that and it didn't help that he had badmouthed them so abdly. Right after their convention where they nominated Cobb, Nader came out and said that the Greens were "strange" and "odd" and then told a reporter that the Green convention was a "cabal." Nice way to drum up support, asshole. As it is, there's no way that he'll get on the 44 ballot lines that he was on in 2000. The only big thing he has going for him is the Reform Party line on the Florida ballots. He's dead int he water, only now he's looking more and more like the desperate egomaniac that he is.

[dissention]

My understanding of that is that Gore himself could have cast the vote as President of the Senate that would have made him POTUS. However, he wanted to avoid what he felt might be the impropriety of that. So it went down like it did in that horrifying scene in the movie. Did you notice that most of the Congressmen, if not all, in that scene were black? I think that was Moore's point. The black voters (esp. in Florida) got screwed over bad in 2000.
As for Nader, Ideologues don't make good presidents. Just look at Cheney. :)

What I took from it was that out of the 100 Senators in our country, not one of them, including John Kerry and John Edwards, would sign the Congressional Balck Caucus' bill of protest. The election was stolen from us and not even the Democrats who had it solen from them were willing to fight for it. I also agree that he showed that to underscore how the black voters were screwed over.

[dissention]

lol - Don't you know by NOW that the mere mention of a certain large jowled Pentacostal preacher man with the initials JF, Nader, and any praise whatsoever in any degree even if you later take it back for W invokes the wrath :eek: :nod: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't forget Pat Robertson. :p

[DeeGeMe]

Speaking of ole' Pat and his buddies-did you hear that this "Focus On the Family" group sent out e-mails to their supporters and gave them Michael Moore's home address? I fired off a e-mail in protest and got this smarmy reply about how they didn't tell their followers what to do with that information and that the info was publically available through real estate records anyway. I pointed out in my original e-mail that I didn't see the Rev. Dobson's home address on his website so why did he think it was okay to post someone else's? These people incite violence and they do it in the name of the Lord and I can't tell you how sickens me.

[dissention]

This is sickening to me. As time goes by, I like the Democrats and John Kerry less and less. How much further to the right will they go? It doesn't matter to me because after I cast my vote for Kerry in November, I'm registering as an Independent. F*ck the dems.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4297365,00.html

Democrats Avoid Platform Fight Over Iraq
By KEN THOMAS
Associated Press Writer

HOLLYWOOD, Fla. (AP) - John Kerry's presidential campaign avoided a platform fight Saturday by persuading activists to drop virulent language about the Iraq war that would have declared the conflict a mistake from the beginning.

The Democratic platform committee worked through the day at a beachfront resort to put final details on the party's statement of principles for the November elections.

The platform will be shaped heavily by national security crises and presumptive nominee Kerry's campaign.

First, however, the committee had to avoid demands by a group of activists that the document describe the entry into Iraq as a mistake and lay down an exit strategy to get American forces out of Iraq. Still, the document includes tough language on terrorism and President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq.

[DeeGeMe]

I'm not exactly happy with it myself. And I was startled to find out that this had been eliminated from the platform.

[dissention]

I'm not exactly happy with it myself. And I was startled to find out that this had been eliminated from the platform.

I'm not startled, I'm positively shocked. It really sucks now because Bush is the anti-Christ, Nader is an egomaniac whore, and Kerry has a feather for a backbone.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A46316-2004Jul13?language=printer

National Guard Correction


In Friday's column, I linked to a Ralph Blumenthal story in the New York Times about how the Pentagon was saying that some of Bush's payroll records had been "inadvertently destroyed."

I added my own comment: That I found this surprising, given that Associated Press Assistant General Counsel Dave Tomlin had told me two weeks earlier that the AP, which has filed a lawsuit demanding Bush's Vietnam-era records, has been informed that the microfilm in question did indeed exist.

Several alert readers e-mailed me to suggest that I had conflated two sets of microfilm. And in fact, I did just that. (Thank you, readers.)

I reached Tomlin yesterday and he set me straight, so now I can set the record straight myself.

The microfilm that the Pentagon reported destroyed was housed at the Defense Finance and Accounting Service in Denver and consisted only of a few months of payroll records -- albeit some of them from during the hotly contested third quarter of 1972.

The Associated Press lawsuit that Tomlin filed is for the microfilm of Bush's entire personnel file from the Texas Air National Guard. Those records are in Austin.
The Denver microfilm was the subject of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request -- and the Austin lawsuit was filed in response to the denial of a FOIA request.

But they were different FOIA requests.

"There have been numerous FOIAs," Tomlin told me yesterday. "The lawsuit in particular is focused on microfilm that we believe to be in the possession of the State of Texas. . . . Not just payroll records, but the entire personnel file."

In fact, Tomlin said, "There could be payroll records in there that might duplicate the lost records. . . . But we're not sure."


Muwhahahaahahha!http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/deal.gif

[darklinensuit]

and Kerry has a feather for a backbone.

Wrong part of the anatomy. :( ;)

- Jake

[dissention]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A46316-2004Jul13?language=printer

National Guard Correction


In Friday's column, I linked to a Ralph Blumenthal story in the New York Times about how the Pentagon was saying that some of Bush's payroll records had been "inadvertently destroyed."

I added my own comment: That I found this surprising, given that Associated Press Assistant General Counsel Dave Tomlin had told me two weeks earlier that the AP, which has filed a lawsuit demanding Bush's Vietnam-era records, has been informed that the microfilm in question did indeed exist.

Several alert readers e-mailed me to suggest that I had conflated two sets of microfilm. And in fact, I did just that. (Thank you, readers.)

I reached Tomlin yesterday and he set me straight, so now I can set the record straight myself.

The microfilm that the Pentagon reported destroyed was housed at the Defense Finance and Accounting Service in Denver and consisted only of a few months of payroll records -- albeit some of them from during the hotly contested third quarter of 1972.

The Associated Press lawsuit that Tomlin filed is for the microfilm of Bush's entire personnel file from the Texas Air National Guard. Those records are in Austin.
The Denver microfilm was the subject of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request -- and the Austin lawsuit was filed in response to the denial of a FOIA request.

But they were different FOIA requests.

"There have been numerous FOIAs," Tomlin told me yesterday. "The lawsuit in particular is focused on microfilm that we believe to be in the possession of the State of Texas. . . . Not just payroll records, but the entire personnel file."

In fact, Tomlin said, "There could be payroll records in there that might duplicate the lost records. . . . But we're not sure."


Muwhahahaahahha!http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/deal.gif

I saw a piece on the DU yesterday about this and my reaction was the same:

Muwhahahaahahha!http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/deal.gif

:xoxo:

[gldstwmn]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040716/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_military_service_2

AP Seeks Release of Bush Military Records

WASHINGTON - The Associated Press asked a federal judge Friday to order the Pentagon to quickly turn over a full copy of President Bush's military service record.

The White House has released partial documentation of Bush's military service in the Texas Air National Guard but has not complied with the news service's Freedom of Information Act request for any record archived at a state library records center in Texas, the AP said in a court filing.

Records released so far do not put to rest questions over whether Bush fulfilled his National Guard service for a period during the Vietnam War, the AP argued in papers filed in federal court in New York.

Those records came from federal records clearinghouses. Texas law requires separate record keeping for state National Guard service, and those records should exist on microfilm in Austin, the AP said.

"A significant, ongoing controversy exists over the president's military service during the Vietnam War, specifically whether he performed his required service between May and October 1972," lawyers for the AP wrote.

There also are allegations that potentially embarrassing material was removed from Bush's military file in 1997, when he was running for re-election as Texas governor, the AP said.

"The public has an intense and legitimate interest in knowing the facts concerning the president's military service. Reviewing the microfilm copy of the personnel file at the Texas Records center could well answer the questions that have been raised," the lawyers wrote.

The news service asked U.S. District Judge Harold Baer to hear arguments in the case and to direct the Pentagon to comply with the FOIA request within three days.

AP first sought the Texas records in March, and sued the Pentagon in April over the allegedly slow response.

The Pentagon said in June that military payroll records that could more fully document Bush's whereabouts during his service in the Texas Air National Guard were inadvertently destroyed. And microfilm containing the pertinent National Guard payroll records was damaged and could not be salvaged, according to the Defense Department.

:blob2: :blob2: :blob2:

[estranged4life]

AP Seeks Release of Bush Military Records


the AP will succeed.

Good luck to 'em.

[gldstwmn]

EXCLUSIVE to THE RAW STORY
http://rawstory.com

By John Byrne | Raw Story Editor

A closer examination of President George W. Bush’s records of his service in the Texas Air National Guard and the Air Reserve reveals that as much as 60 percent of Bush’s substitute training sessions scheduled were invalid under Air Force regulations because they were conducted more than 15 days in advance of his scheduled training, according to an investigation by RAW STORY.

He was also paid for these invalid makeup sessions, according to his records.

On one weekend in 1972, and four weekends in 1973, according to documents released by the White House, Bush attended makeup training sessions for session he intended to miss. Each of those makeup sessions, credited for the days beginning 11/13/72, 1/06/73, 1/09/73, 7/16/73 and 7/18/73, were scheduled more than 15 days before the scheduled service date.

Under Air Force policy, all “substitute training” at the time had to be performed “within 15 days immediately before or 30 days immediately after the regularly scheduled (service date, a.k.a. UTA).”

###

DEVELOPING HARDER: No evidence that Bush made up any of his training sessions during his “Alabama campaign;” In fact, White House documents appear to show he never made up the training at all... Stayed tuned -- there's a lot more to this than this initial stuff...

best to get there from main page to get most up-to-date as it develops: http://rawstory.com

Or current direct link: http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=162