Thoughts on DVD/CD

[John Run]

Well, having watched the DVD and listened to the CD, as well as being at the two shows last September here are my thoughts and opinions.

The DVD is a much grittier depiction of live music than The Dance and although comparisons are inevitable, I think you are really comparing two different beasts. The Dance was recorded on a Hollywood Soundstage and then engineered to reintroduce a dormant band to a new generation. It was and needed to be almost studio perfect. Live in Boston was recorded at The Fleet Center in Boston and despite its reputation as being one of the better arenas for live music, it is still a modern building of concrete and steel, not designed for the sole purpose of listening to and viewing music.

I am not going to get into the quality of the DVD as far as picture and sound. One I just don't know enough about picture quality to make an educated statement. Some of it is subjective as well. From my stand point it looked good on my 35" TV. Sound: The 5.1 sounded much better to me than the PCM. Running it through my 5 speaker w/subwoofer system with a digital audio cable running from DVD to my amp I thought the sound was rich and full. The vocals really stood out in that mix.

One thing I have noticed is different people having differrent complaints about the sound. I think a lot has to do with one's own system. To my ear, they way my system is equalized, the guitars are often too low in the mix yet the drums and bass are too far up. I know others have the opposite complaint. Vocals were almost stunningly clear and out front for most songs. I did have some issues with some of the spoken intros being very low, but that is about it. Again, I think it has a lot to do with one's own system.

For a taped show it is good! I just don't believe camera can truly catch the sound, energy, and excitement of live music. Somethings do come off better though. Come's solo which I feel is often lost in the mix during concert is brought up front and seperated. It sounds great! Gypsy sounds much better on disc than it has live to me. Big Love which has drawn some complaints, I really like here. It is less sterile and even more raw. Is it as perfect as the Dance, no, but I love the passion in it. It is an intangible thing there that I just seem to prefer. I agree with others that the percussion intro to Stand Back seems a little muted. Mick's Drum Solo on tape just does not work. Rhiannon is a good version of what Rhainnon is today and by today's standards she tears up the end. Same thing with Gold Dust Woman, which I think ranks as the best post 1982 version I have heard! Silver Springs was great both nights, however it loses something vocally on tape here. I think a lot has to do with the energy live music gets from the crowd and the music's surroundings, as opposed to listening and watching on tape. It just is not as good as I remember it being on those nights.

Live in Boston is a nice keepsake of a tour that will go down as longest in Fleetwood Mac History. Enjoy the music and the video. Who knows what tomorrow might bring?

[glitter_fades]

Good observations. I agree with most of what you said on the DVD. The only sound beef I have is with Say Goodbye. Don't like the loud-soft-loud way it sounds on my system. The rest is great on my 5.1 surround sound.

Question about Gypsy. You were in the Fleet Center for the show(s), right? Did they play that other bass line that night or was it put in later. I like it a lot but don't remember hearing that sound at the show I saw in July. It reminds me of...oh, I don't know what to call it...like a calypso style of rhythm. You know the sound I'm talking about? John has the regualr bass and somebody else, or a studio overdub, adds a nice flavor. Which is it?

[John Run]

I will have to listen to it again. It sounds better on the Disc than in concert. It is very possible that there is synth bass line or the sound man is applying some effects to John's Bass that is lost in the live mix and comes through on the DVD.

[promogirl]

I am going to enjoy this for years to come. I watch and listen for the enjoyment of it, so if my critical eye is weak I apologize.

I was at the shows too!! This is a great representation of what I saw there. It does not happen often that I feel a video can equal an actual live concert. Soundstage and Fleetwood Mac came pretty close! Highlights for me include Eyes, Second Hand News, Come, I'm So Afraid, Landslide, Beautiful Child!!!, Go Your Own Way, Say You Will, Peacekeeper, pretty much everything I guess. Mick's solo goes on too long.

If this is last thing Fleetwood Mac ever releases, I will be happy with it. I hope this band continues to produce music just as good as this though.

[John Run]

Question about Gypsy. You were in the Fleet Center for the show(s), right? Did they play that other bass line that night or was it put in later. I like it a lot but don't remember hearing that sound at the show I saw in July. It reminds me of...oh, I don't know what to call it...like a calypso style of rhythm. You know the sound I'm talking about? John has the regualr bass and somebody else, or a studio overdub, adds a nice flavor. Which is it?[/QUOTE]


I think what you are hearing is a guitar part. I watched John's Bass and it certainly is not what he is playing and it really does not sound like a bass. It seems to me that they brought up the guitar part that Neale was playing to forefront.

[estranged4life]

finished watching the Live In Boston I have to say I like what I heard and saw. But like previously posted I did not like the volume on Say Goodbye going from a normal level to a low level and back to normal...I thought I had a defective disc when I first heard that.

I just finished burning off a copy of the DVD onto CD-R, But when I was deciding which mix to use I tried using the 5.1 mix, But when I had my JVC headphones on I noticed that songs mixed by Mark Needham sound different than those mixed by Ed Cherney, So much to my ears I opted for the 2 Channel Linear PCM Stereo mix...

Other than the differences in the mixes by Needham & Cherney, I am very satisfied with this set, I will definitely watch it more than I ever watched The Dance

Brian "The set brought back memories of last night" j.

[mylittledemon]

Here's my 2 cents:

1) The Chain was great as always. Loved the extended bass solo. 2) Dreams was ok. I like Stevie's vocal for some reason and Lindsey's tremolo effect. 3) Eyes of the World...really one of the best performances on the set. 4) Peacekeeper...I liked Lindsey's intro to the song. 5) 2nd Hand News...I like this song, but they can't do it justice live anymore. They sound terrible singing it. 6) Say You Will...great sound but they lowered the key too much. 7) Never Going Back Again...always sweet. 8) Rhiannon...this one I actually liked MORE than The Dance version. 9) Come...wow. It blew me away. Two thumbs up. 10) Gypsy...very disappointed in this overall. 11) Big Love...Lindsey's voice is failing and he flubbed up on the guitar a couple times. 12) Landslide...it was great. Love the hand kiss at the end. 13) Say Goodbye...was really nice. I got emotional watching it. 14) What's the World Coming To...I think this is one of the best performances on the whole set. 15) Beautiful Child...stevie sings it with just as much passion as she might have on the Tusk tour. 16) Gold Dust Woman...eh, its alright. 17) I'm So Afraid. Lindsey's solo was more polished on The Dance, but this one is more raw and its longer. I dig it. 18) Silver Springs...love this song, but did not like this version at all. 19) Tusk...its really cool to watch Lindsey "ape" around. 20) Stand Back...its ok but the percussion intro is too long. 21) Go Your Own Way...I LOVE this song, but this version SUCKS. Too many overdubs. 22) World Turning...its cool but Mick goes on for too long with the hanky panky. 23) Don't Stop...not the same w/o Christine but Lindsey riffs it up pretty well. 24) Goodbye Baby...well i don't like this song first off and the "metronome" noise irritates me. AND FINALLY...its just a shame they didnt film this leg of the tour. I'd much rather have songs like "Red Rover", "Sara" and "I Know I'm Not Wrong" on DVD.

[macmar71]

I also agree that they should have waited and maybe selected a show from the current leg of the tour as I love the inclusion of "I Know I'm Not Wrong" and "Sara" :thumbsup:

[Cour]

Live in Boston is a nice keepsake of a tour that will go down as longest in Fleetwood Mac History. Enjoy the music and the video. Who knows what tomorrow might bring?

I still haven't received my DVD set but I was able to catch the 2 hour version on PBS last night. I was expecting The Dance, but after a few songs I realized you're not going to capture that type of magic twice, so why try and I'm glad they went for the live concert concept. I don't have high definition tv or a surround sound system so it was just me and good cable reception and I really liked the show.

The one thing I realized half way through the concert was how this show totally brings me back to all of my great concert experiences during this tour. Seeing all the little things Stevie and Lindsey do everytime I see them and the effect of a live show will help keep the memories from the live shows I attended. The Dance was special but it really had very little to do with my concert experiences in 1997, so I'm glad I have this as a permanent reminder of all of the things I have loved so much about this tour.

It could have been perfection if they had included Red Rover, Sara, IKINW and Destiny Rules......hopefully next time .....or we'll finally get some soundboard cds and some of the footage they've been shooting for the big screens at every concert.

[littlelies7]

I just bought it and the CD isn't bad.

Aw heck, I just listened to EOTW, Come, and ISA! :lol:

I've yet to watch the DVD.

[Nicks Fan]

Mu thoughts on the stelist is as foolows

1. The Chain - Good but not great.
2. Dreams - I don't like this version. the way she lowers hervoice on parts that are higher in octave is annoying . The Dance version is much better.
3. Eyes of The World - FANTASTIC!!!
4. Peacekeeper - Good perfomance and the intro is solid.
5. Second Hand News- Lots of energy on the song but it Just doesn't work for me.
6. Say You Will - Well done. They look like they are having so much fun.
7. Never Going Back Again - Lindsey always seem to do this song well. The touch of country flavour to it also works.
8. Rhiannon- VERY POOR. She can still sing but Ms Nicks can't hit the high notes like she used too and that hurts this song, Any other version I have seen is much better
9. Come - Well done but too long
10. Gypsy - She sings it too low now that it doesn't work well. I liked the Dance version better
11. Big Love- Good but nothing tops the Dance version
12. Landslide - It gets me everytime and the dedication thing was a sweet touch.
13. Say Goodbye- They really seem to be speaking to each other on this song and do it justice.
14. What's The World Coming To?- I like the song in general and the way it is done live is great. It starts off with mainly his guitar and then it gets the drum beats in and it is rock solid.
15. Beautiful Child - Stevie's masterpiece. If Silver Springs was the best thing on the Dance then Beautful Child is the best thing on the Live in Boston Concert.
16. Gold Dust Woman - Her voice just can't make this song what it once was.
17. I'm So Afraid - Way too long. It feels like Lindsey is saying look at how well I play the guitar. Let's see how long I can go.
18. Silver Springs- Sucks. Vocally it is ok but the passion from the Dance just isn't there. I think the Dance is is what made this song so poular and no matter what I think It will always be compared to every other version they do of this song.
19. Tusk - Misses the great Accordian that Christine Mcvie brought but they do a swell job and the whole boxing thing is a hoot.
20. Stand Back - Stevie always put's tremendous energy into ths song. A good version.
21. Go Your Own Way - Usually reliable song hits near rock bottom. For me the song's ending was too long and it jsut didn't cut it for me. Vocally not bad but everything else just rubbed me the wrong way.
22. World Turning - Mick's solo and rambling is silly but besides that it is well done.
23. Don't Stop - Christine Mcvie is missed on this one but they do an ok job.
24. Goodbye Baby- A great ending to a good concert.

Overall **** out of five

As for the CD I think that the track is not good as too much of the songs picked for the cd are the long ones with long insturmentals that can grow tiresome. It also cold have used more of the new songs.

Overall *** out of five

Matt :)

[Janis_no1]

Hmmm i am a little afriad of seeing this dvd now... of course that wont stop me in the slightest! I shall quickly ask whethe i shouuld get the cd dvd pack available on what ever the site is? is it worth is or should i wait and but both seperately when they get to Aus... if you get some speacial pack then i shall definently get it online...

As i have not seen the dvd these are my worries... i saw FMAC in aus in Feb and March and from what i can tell the whole show is so staged that any sincerity in any of the songs is lost entirely. I saw three shows and by the third show i knew what they would say off by heart, the same dedications, same stores word by word.. which upset me.
- When silver springs was being performed stevie would take a deep breath and turn around to face Lindsey on kew(?) and it was completely opbious that is was done for show which destroyed the song to a fan.
-Landslide was performed the same way for the entire tour..sn going behind lindsey tapping his shoulders, and he would look down and shake his head, then lift his head up and look up the ceiling.

The same face expressions for say goodbye.. dont get me wrong i absolutely adore this song live, just hard to swallow watching the same exact show every time and hearing the same stories from us fans all over the world and still believe that is actual emotion only.
-Beautiful child was also the best song to me for the set list, just simply stunning, though once again exact same introduction.
- Big Love, exact same story though lindsey tries to bring it across as though he is dicussing it for the first time.

I want the dvd badly, though i also know that when i watch it it will take another little piece of my heart with it as it takes away what i thought was special and turn it into a script...

I think i need sleep...

[Keith]

I just finished standing in front of my tv, doing the "Say You Will" hands dance with Stevie. Torri taught me this at the D.C. show last October, and it's so much fun doing it with Stevie again.

What can I say, but I love the dvd - flaws and all..

My favorites are Eyes of the World, Say Goodbye, Landslide, What's the World Coming To, Beautiful Child, I'm So Afraid, Stand Back, and World Turning.

I have no complaints about the visuals and sound coming from my set-up.. i'm having a time this Saturday morning..even better than cartoons! :-)

[WelshWitchPMD]

I really liked this DVD. I liked it much better then The Dance which I am sorry but I really don't care for that much.

My biggest complant is that it should have been all on one DVD. I hate switching them. Is there anyone that can put them both all on one DVD?

[worldturning75]

The DVD is a much grittier depiction of live music than The Dance ...
Yes, definitely!

Sound: The 5.1 sounded much better to me than the PCM.
That was generally my opinion too.

One thing I have noticed is different people having differrent complaints about the sound. I think a lot has to do with one's own system. To my ear, they way my system is equalized, the guitars are often too low in the mix yet the drums and bass are too far up. I know others have the opposite complaint. Vocals were almost stunningly clear and out front for most songs. I did have some issues with some of the spoken intros being very low, but that is about it. Again, I think it has a lot to do with one's own system..

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "the way my [your] system is equalized." A "properly" setup 5.1 or greater system (adjusted sound pressure levels (spl's) and matched speakers) should really not affect the 5.1 mix.

I've played the DVD in various systems, from "high end" home theater to stereo pc's. To me, the sound mix either in 5.1 or stereo for the DVD generally has the same characteristics regardless of whether one "sounds" better than the other - the drums are not upfront enough, not loud enough, not forceful enough. In the live shows, you can feel and hear Mick's drums. IMHO, its what keeps the sound from having that full live feel. I can't really speak for the bass parts since it really didn't stand out to me in the live shows. As a comparison, Led Zeppelin's "How The West Was Won" concert DVD package has the full live feel.

Live in Boston is a nice keepsake of a tour that will go down as longest in Fleetwood Mac History. Enjoy the music and the video. Who knows what tomorrow might bring?
Well said.

I do really enjoy the DVD's and crank it up whenever I can.

[worldturning75]

I really liked this DVD. I liked it much better then The Dance which I am sorry but I really don't care for that much.

My biggest complant is that it should have been all on one DVD. I hate switching them. Is there anyone that can put them both all on one DVD?


It can be done. The first DVD is about 3.5gb and the second DVD is a little over 5gb. Should fit on the new dual layer dvd+r discs (holds about 8.5gb but not in full distribution yet) with little or no compression. You'll also need one of the new dual layer dvd burners. I think there would be too much compression if you tried to fit it on a single layer dvd recordable disc (holds about 4.2gb). The only items on the dvd which you could eliminate to save space would be the menu and the Dolby Digital 5.1 mix which would leave you with just the stereo mix.

Here is a couple of links that may help on how to combine the dvd's if you have the required software:

http://users.skynet.be/contra/dvddouble.htm

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85702

[Cour]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know if a DVD burner that came with a computer about 6 months ago would be capable of copying the dual layer dvd?

[worldturning75]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know if a DVD burner that came with a computer about 6 months ago would be capable of copying the dual layer dvd?


Most likely not. I think they were just released within the last month and the dual layer (DL) dvd+r discs are not yet widely available.

Best Buy is selling the Sony DRU-700A dual layer burner ($199.00). They are also selling the DL discs, but only in a pack with 9 regular dvd+r's, 1 dvd+rw and 1 DL disc. This pack with only 1 DL disc will cost you $30.

You can pick-up an NEC ND-2510A dual layer burner for under $90.00 at newegg.com:

NEC ND-2510A dual layer burner (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=5&manufactory=1326&DEPA=0&sortby=14&order=1)

Look further down the page of the link. They sell several variations of that model.

[estranged4life]

purchasing a self-contained DVD burner (The new Sony system is $799.00 but a Panasonic caught my eye for $499.00) but is it best to purchase a burner that can burn DVD-R or one that can burn DVD-RAM & DVD+RW???

[worldturning75]

Okay, I had to give it a try. Using Nero Recode 2, I was able to copy both dvd's onto one Verbatim DataLife Plus Dual Layer dvd+r disc. The process was actually very simple. There are no menus, but all chapter markers are preserved (with one little anomaly). The process took about 1hr. 10min. from analysis to encode to burn (excluding one other needed software ;) ). Dual layer dvd+r can only be burned at 2.4x speed at this time.

With both audio streams (stereo and Dolby Digital 5.1) left in, Nero was displaying close to 87% quality. With just stereo as the audio stream, closer to 94% quality. I kept both audio streams in.

Subjectively, the video quality was somewhat more grainy at times and the colors seemed somewhat less vibrant, again at certain times (at least on my widescreen). I saw the 1 hr. PBS HD broadcast the other night, and the picture was incredible (better than the commercial dvd as it should be).

There are some techinical difficulties on playback with the burned dual layer disc mostly on the second layer. On my pc dvd player (ATI v9.0), using the same dvd drive that I used to burn the disc, the dvd would not chapter past I'm So Afraid. I had to use fast forward to get to the next song. I didn't watch the disc all the way on the pc, so there could be more of this.

On my standalone dvd player (Denon DVD-2900), the disc froze after Tusk, Stand Back, the band intros and Goodbye Baby right before the ending credits. Pressing the forward chapter button (sometimes twice) would take you to the start of the next song.

One other little anomaly (and this is because of the way Nero Recode 2 structures the DVD) is that the chapter numbers only apply to the track of the original disc. For instance, if you're watching Dreams (which say is Chapter 3) and want to skip to Tusk (which maybe would be Chapter 21 on a combined disc), you can't skip to it by just entering Chapter 21 on the remote. This is because the chapter numbers go back to chapter 1 beginning with Say Goodbye. You have to chapter through track by track. The same applies if your watching a track on what would have been disc 2 but want to skip to a track that would have been on disc 1. This can probably be fixed in a more advanced program, but would take more time and know-how.

All in all, it was a simple process and the copy is very good.