Live in Boston DVD disappointment

[NowSounds]

For something that is supposedly shot in hi-definition, the picture quality is very average, but nothing very over-the-top.

Also, it's not enhanced for widescreen tv's. WTH? I figured they'd put the concert on 2 discs to maximize the DVD bit-rate for better picture and sound quality, but after seeing the quality, there is NO reason it couldn't have been put on one disc.

It's FAB to have an official release of the show on DVD, but personally it's nowhere as good-looking and sounding as The Dance. :distress:

[JamieSPC]

I was also disappointed it wasn't enhanced for widescreen TVs. It makes no sense at all to shoot something in HiDef and then release it on DVD as non-anamorphic letterbox. Boo hiss.

However, the sound is much more "you-are-there" than "The Dance." It's got an arena feel to it, which is pretty cool, rather than the almost studio-quality (and obviously studio-enhanced) sound of "The Dance." The picture quality, sadly, is nothing to write home about.

~Jamie

[DeadliestPoison]

Ew, is it windowboxed? I was hoping it'd be anamorphic. :\

[dissention]

I figured they'd put the concert on 2 discs to maximize the DVD bit-rate for better picture and sound quality, but after seeing the quality, there is NO reason it couldn't have been put on one disc.

I thought that was why it was spread out on two discs, but now I'm convinced it was so that they could charge a lot more for it. ;)

[wondergirl9847]

I don't have the DVD yet, but watching it on PBS last week, it's WAAAAY more raw in terms of a concert. I love that about it, while the Dance, you had these snobby celebs and quiet mouses in the audience. LOL That's why I love that person right before the 2nd verse of The Chain screaming "WOO!!" :laugh:

[Nikolaj]

i wonder..but doubt, if there is a VHS release of it. maybe its full screen on vhs, and if the vhs wasn't encoded or whatever, perhaps it could be recorded onto DVD from VHS for better picture quality? i haven't a dvd recorder, but for those who do, maybe it'd work? i am not much of a letterbox fan, either, but you kinda get used to it...

[mylittledemon]

Well the picture quality is in question unless you are using DVI cables or high quality Monster Component cables from your DVD player to your TV.

If you use S-video or those crappy "yellow" video cables that came in the box with your DVD, you will NEVER, yes NEVER get the quality picture that DVDs are capable of.

[GardenStateGirlie]

...i'm just stoked to have a show that wasn't filmed from the audience :nod:

[diamondsnake]

Speaking of which, did anyone else think that some of the camera angles were strange? Like they were not balanced- Stevie's head looked like it was floating in mid air in those extreme close up shots (which are pointless).

[GardenStateGirlie]

Speaking of which, did anyone else think that some of the camera angles were strange? Like they were not balanced- Stevie's head looked like it was floating in mid air in those extreme close up shots (which are pointless).

I thought the same thing. It also looks like in some songs that they spliced both nights together through the magic of editing.

[Cour]

Did they ship the PBS DR set via regular first class mail or Priority mail?

Am I the only one who ordered it the first day and has not received it?

[dissention]

Did they ship the PBS DR set via regular first class mail or Priority mail?

Am I the only one who ordered it the first day and has not received it?

My package has a stamp on it that says Media Mail. Cheap bastards. They charged $7 for shipping, too. If I were to mail them, I wouldn't pay more than a buck fifty.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Yes I really do enjoy the DVD, but I agree some of the editing is weird...nothing horrible like Red Rocks or the Tango video....but it seems off at times...

Chris

[mylittledemon]

Once again...the picture quality is in question unless you are using DVI cables or high quality Monster component cables from your DVD player to your TV.

If you use S-video or those crappy "yellow" video cables that came in the box with your DVD player, you will NEVER (yes, never) get the quality picture that DVDs are capable of.

[Cour]

Once again...the picture quality is in question unless you are using DVI cables or high quality Monster component cables from your DVD player to your TV.

If you use S-video or those crappy "yellow" video cables that came in the box with your DVD player, you will NEVER (yes, never) get the quality picture that DVDs are capable of.


Are DVI cables expensive?

Can you recd any brands or specifics about buying them?

thanks

[gldstwmn]

Are DVI cables expensive?

Can you recd any brands or specifics about buying them?

thanks

"Monster" is the brand name if I'm not mistaken and they are available at any Soundtrack-type of store.

[mylittledemon]

Yeah always get Monster cables. Your system is only as good as the weakest link you have connecting it together.

Good Monster DVI cables are about $100. Now of course you have you make sure you have DVI connections on your DVD and your TV. If you dont you most likely have component. Component is a step down from DVI, but still high quality. Most all DVD players have component. Good component cables are about $50. They are the "red/green/blue" cables. You can get em at any decent electronics place like Circuit City, Best Buy or whatever.

[dissention]

Someone gave me Monster cables for Christmas last year and I've never used them. I just use the cables that came with my DVD player. :laugh:

Do they make that big of a difference? Maybe I'll have to find them and hook them up.

[JamieSPC]

Once again...the picture quality is in question unless you are using DVI cables or high quality Monster component cables from your DVD player to your TV.

If you use S-video or those crappy "yellow" video cables that came in the box with your DVD player, you will NEVER (yes, never) get the quality picture that DVDs are capable of.

My equipment list:

Mitsubishi 55809 widescreen television
JVC XVFA95GD 7-Disc Progressive-Scan DVD/DVD-Audio Player
Sony 905ES Dolby Digital/DTS receiver
Monster Cable (component, NOT composite or S-video)

Here's my home theater online:
http://www.jamie-cole.com/movies/ht.html

I've been a DVD reviewer for two national magazines and several web sites.

This concert was shot in high definition by a company that knows what it's doing in that regard. As such, there is no excuse for quality to be this poor, or for it to NOT be anamorphically enhanced for widescreen televisions. If you don't have a widescreen set or a large display, you probably won't know the difference and it will look terrific. However, if you want to see what this DVD's potential was, check out the PBS-HD broadcast. Now DVD doesn't approach HD quality (in fact, HD offers pretty much twice the resolution of DVD, depending on how many lines are visible on your set). But this concert, spread out over two discs (one of which is dual layer because there's a layer change near the end of the second disc), should have been MUCH MUCH better given the source material.

~Jamie

[JamieSPC]

Someone gave me Monster cables for Christmas last year and I've never used them. I just use the cables that came with my DVD player. :laugh:

Do they make that big of a difference? Maybe I'll have to find them and hook them up.

Depending on the size of your set, you might see some very noticeable differences. If you have a normal-definition tube TV at 36 inches or below, the most notable difference will be the elimination of dot crawl. You'll see it around edges of objects, people etc. if you look close... looks like millions of tiny ants crawling around an object. Either S-video or component cables will take care of this and it will make a big difference. If you have a hi-def set, don't even think about using composite ("crappy yellow") cables. Again, depending on the size, S-video or component will both be good, but component is best (although to most eyes there's little difference).

DVI is more common on HD tuners than DVD players, but some have it... I find it reveals compression artifacts more than component does. It's kinda like when CDs used to say they "reveal the imperfections of the source material." After reviewing some TV sets with DVI inputs, I'd still choose component for DVD and go with DVI for HD broadcasts.

~Jamie

[Carolina Girl]

I just went to Best Buy to get the DVD. They had it advertised for $18.99, and the picture in the ad looked like the small cd style packaging. The store only had the cd style packaging, none of the DVD packaging. It was marked $22.99, but they sold it to me for $18.99 because I had the ad with me. I think they screwed up, and the $22.99 price would be for the DVD packaging. But WHATEVER. I haven't watched it yet, but I listened to the cd in the car, and to me it didn't sound as good as The Dance in terms of quality of the recording and the performance. For example, Landslide and Silver Springs got a lot of airplay from The Dance. And here they are again, but they don't sound as good. I'm sure a casual fan would have no interest in this. I did catch Landslide on VH1 this morning, and that was a touching video, but I'm a fan of Landslide, and it has always touched me. Again, a casual fan is probably going to be confused by this after hearing The Dance version of Landslide for the last seven years (they still pay it around here on the soft rock station).

[skcin]

Carolina Girl,

I just bought it myself, Best Buy here had the wrong price on it too. Sold it to me for $18.99, no problem.

Anyway, I was thinking the same thing - if I was a casual fan & saw that the majority of the songs offered on the CD were already on The Dance - well, it's just not a selling point.

As far as the DVD goes, how many people will recognize the lesser-known songs (BC, WTWCT, etc) & decide that it's worth it? Most of them (unless they came to the shows & paid some attention) won't say to themselves "wow, I really need to buy this DVD & watch this show over & over again." We all know these songs were great live, but the general public... :shrug:

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'll love it - as a huge fan. But if I didn't love them so damn much, I might not bother. Like Chris posted in another thread, I shouldn't be this upset over it, it's not my problem if it doesn't sell well. And I'm sure I'll watch it over & over again anyway.

paula

PS - the packaging isn't great, pretty amateurish, IMO. And did everyone else notice Karen Johnston credited as a photog? Maybe she took the blurry ones, lol.

[Livia]

Okay, that's it, we're ALL going to Jamie's house! :thumbsup:

[jwys_soapbox]

Well the picture quality is in question unless you are using DVI cables or high quality Monster Component cables from your DVD player to your TV.

If you use S-video or those crappy "yellow" video cables that came in the box with your DVD, you will NEVER, yes NEVER get the quality picture that DVDs are capable of.

I thought that S-Video cables were supposed to give better quality. As for the standard RCA cables, the only difference I know of besides the out of the box kind and the expensive monster-type has to do with conductivity and any difference to quality is really dependant upon the quality of what you have encoding and decoding the signal

John

[whitesoxx]

Has anyone actually bought the dvd in a regular dvd package or is the cd-sized digipack the only one available?

Rick

[Carolina Girl]

PS - the packaging isn't great, pretty amateurish, IMO. And did everyone else notice Karen Johnston credited as a photog? Maybe she took the blurry ones, lol.

I've seen better pictures posted here than the ones they used.

[GypsySorcerer]

Did they ship the PBS DR set via regular first class mail or Priority mail?

Am I the only one who ordered it the first day and has not received it?


I haven't gotten mine either. :shrug:

[estranged4life]

has yet to arrived, But it should be in my mailbox either tomorrow (What good will that be when I wont be here because of the Mac show in Dallas) or Thursday at the latest since CdUniverse is shipping it priority.

I cannot believe that those who ordered it from fm.com with the DR DVD havent received their copies (Worse is that they charged so much to ship it media mail.)

[dissention]

Depending on the size of your set, you might see some very noticeable differences. If you have a normal-definition tube TV at 36 inches or below, the most notable difference will be the elimination of dot crawl. You'll see it around edges of objects, people etc. if you look close... looks like millions of tiny ants crawling around an object. Either S-video or component cables will take care of this and it will make a big difference. If you have a hi-def set, don't even think about using composite ("crappy yellow") cables. Again, depending on the size, S-video or component will both be good, but component is best (although to most eyes there's little difference).

DVI is more common on HD tuners than DVD players, but some have it... I find it reveals compression artifacts more than component does. It's kinda like when CDs used to say they "reveal the imperfections of the source material." After reviewing some TV sets with DVI inputs, I'd still choose component for DVD and go with DVI for HD broadcasts.

~Jamie

Thanks for the info, Jamie. I'll dig them out sometime this week. :D

[dissention]

(Worse is that they charged so much to ship it media mail.)

It's just FOUL

[MacMan]

Well I ordered the 2 pack from HDReady for the documentary only.. I knew I'd go out and buy the dvd today anyway.. which I did. Went home for lunch from work and took a peak at it... I love it!!

I bought the digipack version. I'm assuming the longbox is what is coming from HDReady... But we'll see. My brother was going to buy it as well, but I told him to hang on I'll buy both versions and give you the one I don't want.. which he's fine with.

But I still haven't received mine from the order yet... But there was a reason. I called yesterday to see why my C/C hadn't been charged yet... Seems there computers were having a problem getting an approval from Canada... So I confirmed all the particulars with them... hung up.. called my bank - asked them to accept the damn thing as it was legit... and I called back to HDReady - which by the time I called back, she had received authorization on my card and she said because of the problems she would send it priority... which is fine if they do... doesn't matter much if they don't as long as I know it's on the way....

So the Digipack is like the size of the cd... but twice as think. It splits in half, then splits in half again.. so there are 4 parts to it, or 4 sides. On the outter flip outs, one side pocket has the cd... the other side pocket has the booklet. The dvd's are in the trays that normally hold dvds or cds (if that makes sense)

I actually think it's pretty nicely put together. Sure the pics are from the tour book, but alot of people that didn't get to see the shows and buy a tour book will be seeing them for the first time.

From the quick spin through that I took.. the sound is pretty great - Eyes Of The World sticks out as sounding really really great. It's nice to hear instruments on it you normally don't at the shows or on the bootlegs that I've got.

And there are a lot of great closeups too... And they don't look touched up either. Crap there are closeups so close you can practically see up stevies nose...

Anyway, I'm sure once I watch the whole thing I'll have a better opinion.

[worldturning75]

While I generally like this concert footage better than The Dance (it actually looks and feels like a concert), I am somewhat disappointed with the sound mix. The Dolby Digital mix does sound better than the PCM/Pro Logic mix.

First, Mick's drums and John's bass are buried too far into the mix on certain songs. Sometimes the punch and force is missing from the Mac rhythm section. I'm watching Come as I type this and some of the force is missing from Mick's drums, especially in the regular PCM mix but a little better in the Dolby Digital mix. Overall, the PCM mix seems a little "bright" too (again, better in the Dolby digital mix). My subwoofer is barely moving any air. Also, there's some kind of over compression going on with Lindsey's vocals on Eyes of the World. They should of let Lindsey mix this instead of Ed Cherney and Mark Needham or at least the ones who mixed Led Zeppelin's How the West Was Won.

Otherwise, this is another great performance by the Mac.

I do have to say that Stevie looks incredibly sexy singing Rhiannon. Also, the Stevie leg pic on the inside cover was a pleasant surprise.

[sodascouts]

I do have to say that Stevie looks incredibly sexy singing Rhiannon. Also, the Stevie leg pic on the inside cover was a pleasant surprise.

Yes, she does. Bustin' out the cleavage. You go girl!! Work it!!!!

[GretaRhiannon]

I havent watched it yet...kinda scared now lol, mixed reviews lol... :shrug:

[MacMan]

You know what... Everyone has their opinion and they seem extreme.. Some say they love it some are disappointed... But if you are a Fleetwood Mac fan you will totally enjoy this.. Even casual fans will enjoy this.. so don't be afraid. Take what people say as their opinion only and reserve judgement UNTIL you yourself have seen it.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I must say after watching it a second time, I noticed some things that really caught my eye about it..and I really enjoyed it much more this time around...

Say Goodbye is irreplacable here on this DVD, this is the best version I have heard of it ANYWHERE...it totally just captivates me...

Beautiful Child is very touching...she sings it with such passion

Goodbye Baby is very cool...we get some NICE NICE closeups of Stevie during this number...which is nice...and the vocal as always is great...

Come sounded excellent...the guitar work sounds much better and less like mush than in concert...I love the heavy guitar...

I'm So Afraid - Great to see Lindsey playing guitar here WITHOUT the background guitar players...and Stevie sounds great "black as night!!"

Another thing I noticed, but hadn't noticed throughout the tour for some reason was the background guitar players are also gone on Rhiannon, Brett is the only one left , and he plays Keyboards..and Lindsey really put some heavy guitar licks in the ending of Rhiannon on this one...

So I do enjoy it MUCH better after re-watching it...


Chris

[rezamatic]

So far I've only caught certain songs, but it definitely seems like a few things are off...

1 - The crowd seems VERY inactive during some songs, except for the few in the spotlight right in front of the stage. It's like they cut in inserts of people clapping when they got desperate.

2 - "Tusk" - OBVIOUS "Dance" dubs. Christine's "TUSK!" is clear as day. One time they add it when Lindsey's nowhere near the mic!! Come on, how sloppy! And okay--I can understand if you want to loop in the USC band to add some power to the melody (cuz when you take out the mesh arena-sound and hear the actual keyboards, I think it really sounds funky). But the problem is that you hear the end of one of Lindsey's groans (from the Dance) EVERY TIME it loops! Listen for it and when you spot it it becomes the most annoying thing and just seems so sloppy and lazy that they didn't catch/do anything about it.

3 - So far I've only seen a few tracks. But John's bass seems WAY too soft in the mix. Even when he's on screen taking the spotlight for a few seconds, you can barely pick up the bass.

4 - Mick is hilarious. I've always realized how insane he looks behind drums. But even when he's playing "NGBA" he has this look on his face like 'WOAH did I just do that? ...sound pretty cool! WOO how about that!" It's like his a kid with a chemistry set or something.

Well so far it's worthwhile. Nice having a copy of the show that's not jittery and shaky and taped from all the way across the arena. I've got to rotate watching that and the Simpsons season 4! What a dilemma! :p

[ShangriLaTroubl]

2 - "Tusk" - OBVIOUS "Dance" dubs. Christine's "TUSK!" is clear as day. One time they add it when Lindsey's nowhere near the mic!! Come on, how sloppy! And okay--I can understand if you want to loop in the USC band to add some power to the melody (cuz when you take out the mesh arena-sound and hear the actual keyboards, I think it really sounds funky). But the problem is that you hear the end of one of Lindsey's groans (from the Dance) EVERY TIME it loops! Listen for it and when you spot it it becomes the most annoying thing and just seems so sloppy and lazy that they didn't catch/do anything about it.


I dont hear it as directly taken from the Dance...throughout the entire tour they have sampled in the USC stuff during Tusk, and at shows sometimes you will hear "TUSK!!" even when hes not at the mic, because of the 5 background vocalists they have.....but I will need to relisten to see if I hear Christine in there...one weird thing about Tusk is in the end when he goes "uhhhhhhhhhhh..a.ahhh" and does his groan thing at the end of the song like he does or whatever at the mic, the first time they play it his head is facing the floor, and hes not even at the mic...lol

Chris

[MacMan]

2 - "Tusk" - OBVIOUS "Dance" dubs. Christine's "TUSK!" is clear as day. One time they add it when Lindsey's nowhere near the mic!! Come on, how sloppy! And okay--I can understand if you want to loop in the USC band to add some power to the melody (cuz when you take out the mesh arena-sound and hear the actual keyboards, I think it really sounds funky). But the problem is that you hear the end of one of Lindsey's groans (from the Dance) EVERY TIME it loops! Listen for it and when you spot it it becomes the most annoying thing and just seems so sloppy and lazy that they didn't catch/do anything about it.

All I have to say is read Brett Tuggles Q & A and you will see that through out the whole show there are dubs added in to enhance the sound which he plays from his keyboards. And to quote him... "To make it sound more like the album". So it wouldn't surprise me to hear dubs from albums (if they worked the first time, why not again). You can clearly hear on bootlegs of certain shows where they dub in enhanced vocals during the chorus of Say You Will to fill it out... And on Peacekeeper as well, more vocals are added. I see nothing wrong with that.

[skcin]

You know what... Everyone has their opinion and they seem extreme.. Some say they love it some are disappointed... But if you are a Fleetwood Mac fan you will totally enjoy this.. Even casual fans will enjoy this.. so don't be afraid. Take what people say as their opinion only and reserve judgement UNTIL you yourself have seen it.


I watched Disc one this am & I really like it. The Landslide deication was beautiful - I'm not a weepy person at Mac shows, but the whole "he taught me to play guitar" got me teary-eyed. And I thought Rhiannon was amazing.

Disc 2 tonight!

Paula

[strandinthewind]

I watched Disc one this am & I really like it. The Landslide deication was beautiful - I'm not a weepy person at Mac shows, but the whole "he taught me to play guitar" got me teary-eyed. And I thought Rhiannon was amazing.

Disc 2 tonight!

Paula

I loved Stevie's crazy and zany expression in EOTW. I also love how they show Stevie in those close ups - she has pain on her face when she sings.

[JamieSPC]

Well so far it's worthwhile. Nice having a copy of the show that's not jittery and shaky and taped from all the way across the arena. I've got to rotate watching that and the Simpsons season 4! What a dilemma! :p

I'm also working in some Simpsons here and there. My wife and I got our HDReady package on Monday, so that helped. Last night we watched the entire first disc of the Simpsons set. Even though we haven't gotten to the monorail episode yet (my all time favorite and on the DVD it has a CONAN O'BRIEN COMMENTARY!!!), I can unequivocally say (as Comic Book Guy): "Best ... DVD ... ever."

As for FM: I'm disappointed with the quality of the DVD -- the video quality and the packaging, for the most part. But NOT with the performance. Here are my highlights:

1. "Eyes of the World" -- Just a great performance by the band. So much fun. I will listen to this one a lot.

2. "Rhiannon" -- Very intense and just as I remembered it from the show I saw.

3. "Come" -- That solo at the end is terrific. Wow.

4. "Landslide" dedication -- Very touching.

5. "Say Goodbye" -- The highlight of the disc for me. I think this is Lindsey's best song since his stuff from "Tusk," including all his solo stuff. Here the 6/8 is almost arrhythmic, yet they're right together on the harmonies. I liked this song when I heard it on the GOS demos, liked it even more on SYW, and this live version is absolutely incredible and one of the most moving moments I've seen from this band, right up there with "Silver Springs" from "The Dance."

6. "Stand Back" -- Um, you go girl. Also love the cuts of Lindsey mouthing "STAND BACK!"

~Jamie

[CarneVaca]

My highlights:

Say Goodbye: Brilliant move to slow this song down and attack it with those dramatic highs and lows. Both voices sound positively gorgeous and the interaction between the two singers is priceless.

Come: What can I say? This song comes alive in concert. As over the top as the solo is, I don't think I'll get bored. Same commentary here that I made on the audio CD: the initial riff sounds like a timid cat here, whereas when I saw the band live, it leaped at you like a tiger and grabbed you by the throat.

Stand Back: Stevie takes over, does her thing, and Lindsey provides a very entertaining and amusing sideshow. Taku's intro is tremendous.

Beautiful Child: Damn, damn, damn. Here's a song I never cared much for, but live, it is simply gorgeous.

Eyes of the World: I love the growl of the rhythm guitar in this song. Makes me wish the studio version, as much as I like it, would be a little grittier. Mick's cavalcade adds a lot to this song.

Second-Hand News: I have grown weary of this song, but I must admit this is a hell of a rendition.

[HejiraNYC]

After the Boston tapings last September, the reviews posted to this board were raving how they really stepped it up a notch for the film crews and really put on an extraordinary show. Stevie was supposedly wearing all kinds of wonderful outfits and hitting all kinds of stratospheric notes, etc. Well, with the exception of a couple of higher notes in "Gypsy," and Stevie wearing boots on occasion, it turned out to be a standard issue "Say You Will" tour show after all. This is definitely a compliment, since this has been a great tour. But the point is that this is pretty much what I have seen at all of the six shows I have attended so far. Well... except that Lindsey's vocals were greatly enhanced in post-production!

I think what is more striking than anything is the sound mix. As others have observed, I also think the mix is a bit lacking at the bottom end and it just sounds "muddy" compared to the pristine "Dance" recording. Perhaps this is inherent with recording in truly live situations in arenas that were primarily built for sporting events. But on the plus side, these mixes really downplayed or eliminated the "cheesy" sounding synth elements that you can hear all over the bootleg recordings from this tour, primarily the Buffalo soundboard show. This is startlingly evident on "Say Goodbye," which totally eliminates the synthesized background "ooohs" and turns it into a very spare, emotional and intimate "unplugged" performance. And the synth horns on "Tusk" which have sounded cheesy live in concert are now nicely buried into the back.

Visually I couldn't help but notice that Stevie was shot in profile about 90% of the time! What's up with that?? And the close-ups are indeed pretty scary... and this is on a tiny 20" old TV... I can imagine what this looks like on a huge widescreen HDTV monitor! I also found that the camera cuts were too quick and the transitions between performances were anything but smooth... within the same song you can see Stevie's hair alternate between being parted in the middle, parted on the side, toussled, neatly coiffed, etc.

And finally, I hate to admit this, but this version of "Silver Springs" is a pale shadow of the "Dance" version, or, for that matter, other versions I have seen/heard on this tour. It definitely did not merit inclusion on the audio CD. Same with Rhiannon... perhaps they should have dubbed her vocal from the Greenville show (where she nails the high notes at the end) onto this ;-).

[AliceLover]

PERFORMANCE: A+

EDITING: F

Christ whoever mixed and edited this show should be fired. Look on eyes of the world on Micks little solo in the beginning, when he hits the snare it doesn't even match the sound of the drum beat. IDIOTS! How could they not see this? Look on goodbye baby also. One minute the clip to her shawl is clipped together and another minute it isn't. I also didnt enjoy seeing the camera men all the time. That always bothers me for some strange reason. Also does it seem more dark to you. Everything just seems too dark.

Jimmy

[glitter_fades]

Speaking of which, did anyone else think that some of the camera angles were strange? Like they were not balanced- Stevie's head looked like it was floating in mid air in those extreme close up shots (which are pointless).

Those angles on Stevie wore me the hell out when I watched it the first few times. I guess I'm used to it now. Why Stevie? The other close ups weren't that way. For cripes sake...Taku got all the good close ups! WTF?

[CarneVaca]

I thought the camera work was excellent. I like the off-kilter angles. Makes things more interesting. Also, the camera usually would pan to the person that should be spotlighted at the right time. For instance, the camera captures Carlos doing the fast strumming riff on Stand Back. You get a close up of Brett's keyboard when Silver Springs starts. It's well directed.

[CarneVaca]

Well... except that Lindsey's vocals were greatly enhanced in post-production!

Do you know this for a fact? I mean, I'm sure there was some touching up, but I don't think they dubbed the thing completely. After reading some less-than-kind reviews from the Stevie heads on this board, I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of Lindsey's voice when I saw the band last week. If anything, he sounds better to me than in the Dance tour. And for the most part, so does Stevie, even if her voice has gotten grittier. Really, the only faultering I noticed at the show I saw, from a vocal standpoint, was Stevie during Goodbye Baby. Simply put, her voice had coarsened through the course of the evening and she delivered a huskier take than I would have expected. It was still good.

Be that as it may, before we start saying whose voice was manipulated in the studio for this DVD, we should try to get the facts.

[strandinthewind]

At some points in the show, a vocal continues when LB and SN are not at the mic. That could be due to editing. Just like after the spirited twirls in SB, half of the shots show her shawl over her shoulders and half show it by her waist. So, who knows what is due to post-production and what is due to editing :cool:

[glitter_fades]

My highlights:

Say Goodbye: Brilliant move to slow this song down and attack it with those dramatic highs and lows.

I don't mean to argue with you Carne, but to borrow a line from Damon Wayans and David Allen Greer..."HATED IT!"

I agree on the rest. :thumbsup:

[dissention]

It's well directed.

Agreed. I think it's well directed and very nicely edited.

And if it were the two of us bitching about how they directed and edited it, we'd be accused of extreme negativity. :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Agreed. I think it's well directed and very nicely edited.

And if it were the two of us bitching about how they directed and edited it, we'd be accused of extreme negativity. :laugh:

Right on, dude. I didn't watch it to catch editing flaws. I was watching for the fun of it. Next time, I'll give it more of a critical eye. But as far as the use of the cameras, it was about as well done as I've seen. I believe it was done better than the HBO Rolling Stones concert.

Really, I'm surprised that there is even any bitching about that.

[dissention]

Right on, dude. I didn't watch it to catch editing flaws. I was watching for the fun of it. Next time, I'll give it more of a critical eye. But as far as the use of the cameras, it was about as well done as I've seen. I believe it was done better than the HBO Rolling Stones concert.

Really, I'm surprised that there is even any bitching about that.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I guess now people won't have a problem with me bitching about how they caught Stevie's double chin in one of the weird angles.

[CarneVaca]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I guess now people won't have a problem with me bitching about how they caught Stevie's double chin in one of the weird angles.

Ahem. No comment here ;).

By the by, did you see yourself in there?

[dissention]

Ahem. No comment here ;).

By the by, did you see yourself in there?

I've only watched a few songs, so I haven't seen myself yet. I'm going to watch the whole thing tonight when I get home, which should be soon because I just ate three pieces of cheesecake at The Cheesecake Factory and am feeling quite queasy. ;)

[CarneVaca]

I've only watched a few songs, so I haven't seen myself yet. I'm going to watch the whole thing tonight when I get home, which should be soon because I just ate three pieces of cheesecake at The Cheesecake Factory and am feeling quite queasy. ;)

Cheesecake, hey? Is Jason with you, by any chance?

[dissention]

Cheesecake, hey? Is Jason with you, by any chance?

No, but Rose and Blanche are here, they're whooping my ass in bridge. Dorothy's in the can.

[John Run]

Lindsey's voice is far better on this tour than the Dance Tour to these ears. Having been at the shows in Boston, I believe there was very little sweetning done to his voice. Some of the discrepancies between the audio and video are due to one audio track being created to work with two nights of concert footage. Overall they did a very nice job of shooting and editing.

[strandinthewind]

Cheesecake, hey? Is Jason with you, by any chance?


LMAO :laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

Lindsey's voice is far better on this tour than the Dance Tour to these ears. Having been at the shows in Boston, I believe there was very little sweetning done to his voice. Some of the discrepancies between the audio and video are due to one audio track being created to work with two nights of concert footage. Overall they did a very nice job of shooting and editing.

I've been comparing the Boston CD to the Boston bootleg and I don't think they did much to their voices at all. From what I can hear, the only one with a lot of sweetening is Dreams.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I being a "Stevie head" myself I guess.will say that IMO this tour has been Lindsey's shining moment, vocally, and everything else...he sounds better on this tour to me than he ever has..sure he cant hit all the notes in Big Love sometimes, but in songs like Say Goodbye how could you not love his voice this tour??

Chris

[John Run]

Dissention,

I remember having a little Ledge discussion with you at the time of the shows. I think we both agreed they were very good shows, particularly the second show. I am convinced there is not too much going on as far as vocal overdubs. I do think what is confusing people are the 2 nights of footage/1 audio track thing, and the fact you can mix these songs to bring up the vocals which can be lost in the mix during a live performance.

[shackin'up]

4 - Mick is hilarious. I've always realized how insane he looks behind drums. It's like his a kid with a chemistry set or something.

:D I thought he'd stopped with that. :D

[Hawkeye]

Oh geesh some of you people are a bunch of whiney babys. This DVD is AMAZING perfomances and all. The packaging is great. The picture is PERFECT, I don't know how it could get ANY better. The performances AND the feel of the concert are all 5 times better then The Dance. And still some of you are like OH it'll never compare to my precious dance.

I will agree that the CD is sub par, but really we all bought a DVD that is amazing and the CD is just an extra that still has some shinning moments, but who knows maybe later on we'll get a REAL CD of one of the shows.

[shackin'up]

Oh geesh some of you people are a bunch of whiney babys. This DVD is AMAZING perfomances and all. The packaging is great. The picture is PERFECT, I don't know how it could get ANY better. The performances AND the feel of the concert are all 5 times better then The Dance. And still some of you are like OH it'll never compare to my precious dance.

I will agree that the CD is sub par, but really we all bought a DVD that is amazing and the CD is just an extra that still has some shinning moments, but who knows maybe later on we'll get a REAL CD of one of the shows.

Thanks Hawkeye, Carne's and Dissention's and your opinions on this make me quite enthousiastic. Although I still hate the coverart I have a good feeling about this artisticly. I'm looking forward to this. I ordered a copy from play.com in the UK, so I'll have to wait a month.....


gerald

[John Run]

Oh geesh some of you people are a bunch of whiney babys. This DVD is AMAZING perfomances and all. The packaging is great. The picture is PERFECT, I don't know how it could get ANY better. The performances AND the feel of the concert are all 5 times better then The Dance. And still some of you are like OH it'll never compare to my precious dance.

I will agree that the CD is sub par, but really we all bought a DVD that is amazing and the CD is just an extra that still has some shinning moments, but who knows maybe later on we'll get a REAL CD of one of the shows.


A summation I wholly agree with. Well stated!!

[Johnny Stew]

I guess now people won't have a problem with me bitching about how they caught Stevie's double chin in one of the weird angles.

Well, thank God they didn't airbrush it out, or we'd be hearing about that! :laugh: ;) :xoxo:


I have no complaints in regards to the video. The close-ups, the editing, the performance itself... everything is top-notch, in my opinion. :nod: :)

[dissention]

Dissention,

I remember having a little Ledge discussion with you at the time of the shows. I think we both agreed they were very good shows, particularly the second show. I am convinced there is not too much going on as far as vocal overdubs. I do think what is confusing people are the 2 nights of footage/1 audio track thing, and the fact you can mix these songs to bring up the vocals which can be lost in the mix during a live performance.

They were FANTASTIC, IMO. I really don't think they did much post-production, it's not slick enough. The whole thing is very raw and has more of a live feel to it, which is why I prefer it to The Dance. :nod:

[JamieSPC]

Oh geesh some of you people are a bunch of whiney babys. This DVD is AMAZING perfomances and all. The packaging is great. The picture is PERFECT, I don't know how it could get ANY better.

It could get a lot better if it were enhanced for widescreen TVs, like 95% of all widescreen DVDs on the market. It's far from perfect, considering the concert was shot in high definition.

Don't give me the argument that most people don't care about that... check any home theater message board on the 'Net and you'll find thousands of people who care. Check the back cover of just about any DVD on the shelf and you'll find that manufacturers care, too.

For most people with hi-def sets, anamorphic widescreen is a dealbreaker for whether or not to buy a certain title on DVD. The demand is so great for DVDs enhanced for widescreen sets that many early releases that didn't provide anamorphic widescreen have been re-released as such.

But as I said in an earlier post, the picture quality will be terrific if you aren't looking at it on a hi-def set or projector. And, I love the sound mix... very much like being at the concert, rather than the rather sterile studio sound (but still very good!) for "The Dance."

I LOVE the performances. The DVD, however, is ridiculously subpar considering the source material.

~Jamie

[dissention]

Thanks Hawkeye, Carne's and Dissention's and your opinions on this make me quite enthousiastic. Although I still hate the coverart I have a good feeling about this artisticly. I'm looking forward to this. I ordered a copy from play.com in the UK, so I'll have to wait a month.....


gerald

You'll love it, Gerald. As much as I dislike the front cover, it blends it perfectly with the rest of the packaging. I think it's rather cool.

And if Carne and myself are raving, of course it's fabulous. :laugh:

[dissention]

Well, thank God they didn't airbrush it out, or we'd be hearing about that! :laugh: ;) :xoxo:

No, I think she looks fantastic on it. With the exception of Silver Springs on the CD (which sounds MUCH better on the acutal DVD), I have no complaints with it. It's a very pleasant surprise and I'm glad to have it.

BUT - I HATE the menus on the Destiny Rules DVD. UGH.

[Johnny Stew]

And if Carne and myself are raving, of course it's fabulous. :laugh:

Either that, or it's one of the seven signs of the apocalypse! :laugh: ;)

[dissention]

Either that, or it's one of the seven signs of the apocalypse! :laugh: ;)

OR - someone is stealing our usernames. :lol:

[Johnny Stew]

With the exception of Silver Springs on the CD (which sounds MUCH better on the acutal DVD), I have no complaints with it.

Did you notice that too? I thought maybe it was just me, but it definitely sounds better on the DVD. :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

OR - someone is stealing our usernames. :lol:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

I've been comparing the Boston CD to the Boston bootleg and I don't think they did much to their voices at all. From what I can hear, the only one with a lot of sweetening is Dreams.

Which by the way, to my ear, sounds better than the Dance. Everything about this version is better: the vocals, Lindsey's guitar work, even the... gasp... organ.

[CarneVaca]

Thanks Hawkeye, Carne's and Dissention's and your opinions on this make me quite enthousiastic. Although I still hate the coverart I have a good feeling about this artisticly. I'm looking forward to this. I ordered a copy from play.com in the UK, so I'll have to wait a month.....


gerald

Trust me, my friend, and you know I am not one to dispense kudos gratuitously, this DVD is excellent. It is shot beautifully, despite the naysayers, the sound is quite decent, the playing and singing is great, and the set moves along like a well-oiled machine. By the way, I noticed this last week too. Even though the set is slightly different now, it is extremely well thought-out. Everything flows beautifully from one number to the next. As I mentioned before, Gold Dust Woman was the only song that dragged. It needs to be retired.

[CarneVaca]

For most people with hi-def sets, anamorphic widescreen is a dealbreaker for whether or not to buy a certain title on DVD. The demand is so great for DVDs enhanced for widescreen sets that many early releases that didn't provide anamorphic widescreen have been re-released as such.

I guess I'm an exception. I have high definition and I'm perfectly happy with this picture. In fact, as soon as it started, I was stricken by how good it is.

[JamieSPC]

I guess I'm an exception. I have high definition and I'm perfectly happy with this picture. In fact, as soon as it started, I was stricken by how good it is.

I can't WAIT to see the PBS hi-def broadcast tomorrow night. I believe I will THEN be stricken by how good the source for this DVD really is. :)

~Jamie

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I agree that not too much post vocal dubs were used, because if they were going to do that dont u think they would fix her strained vocals in Silver Springs? I mean, it sounds good and all...but she was straining on those notes for sure

Chris

[MacMan]

My picture looks great too.. and the sound through 5 speakers makes a huge difference.. I'm very happy with this sucker thank you very much!!!

Can you imagine what Lindseys SoundStage thing would be like... Now that would be cool to see released!!

[EveryHour]

You know what... Everyone has their opinion and they seem extreme.. Some say they love it some are disappointed... But if you are a Fleetwood Mac fan you will totally enjoy this.. Even casual fans will enjoy this.. so don't be afraid. Take what people say as their opinion only and reserve judgement UNTIL you yourself have seen it.

I totally agree and I would hope that, as fans, we are not all sitting down to watch it with a critical mind!:)

[David]

I totally agree and I would hope that, as fans, we are not all sitting down to watch it with a critical mind!:)
Oh, god forbid.

So is this DVD thing the same thing I saw on PBS a few weeks ago?

[dissention]

Oh, god forbid.

So is this DVD thing the same thing I saw on PBS a few weeks ago?

:laugh:

Yes, it's the same thing, David.

[MacMan]

The one thing I'm having a little trouble getting used to is how quick they head into the next song after finishing one. Knowing that this ISN'T usually the case at a real show it's a bit surprising at first how quick this happens and is taking a little getting used to. And because they jump right into the next one... It almost feels rushed. But I know this is just because I'm used to the boots of the shows and the ones I've seen where there is usually a longer pause between songs... Just an observation.

[EveryHour]

Oh, god forbid.



So maybe I'm gushy...I just don't see having a negative mind-set over something before you've even seen it, that's all. Especially over something that should bring fun and/or something meaningful to your life like The Mac. If ya watch it and then have critical comments, fine. I'm just saying why sit down to watch it thinking, "Here we go again" or "I just know this is not going to be worth the $20!" :laugh: :confused:

[skcin]

Oh geesh some of you people are a bunch of whiney babys. This DVD is AMAZING perfomances and all. The packaging is great. The picture is PERFECT, I don't know how it could get ANY better. The performances AND the feel of the concert are all 5 times better then The Dance. And still some of you are like OH it'll never compare to my precious dance.

I will agree that the CD is sub par, but really we all bought a DVD that is amazing and the CD is just an extra that still has some shinning moments, but who knows maybe later on we'll get a REAL CD of one of the shows.


Hawkeye,

You are so right. I watched disc 2 today. I love it. :]

I will not whine or complain about it ever again. I promise. :angel:

Paula

[David R]

The Dance had Silver Springs...

Live In Boston has Say Goodbye...

Such a great performance those two had with that one. I actually got kind of emotional watching it, caught me off guard. It was such an excellent performance.

Also Stevie was kicking some ass on Stand Back. Awesome DVD, I will enjoy this just as much as The Dance, looks great and sounds great. Since it was two discs, I wish it would have come with a DTS track but the Dolby mix is excellent.

[EveryHour]

Does anyone feel like GYOW is slow? It still rocks, and LB's guitar is searing, but it just feels a little "plunking along" to me. I'm also not big on the backups singing during the chorus. It makes it feel like Sing-A-Long Time With Fleetwood Mac, and it just doesn't go with what this song is about for me.

[Kelly]

The dvd is awesome IMO! I really enjoyed it and it was different enough from the Dance to make it interesting. SG was extremely moving and really took me by surprise.
One thing I was bothered by, I hope you guys haven't already discussed this as I haven't read all six pages, is that Stevie was almost NEVER shot from the front. LB is filmed from his front for much of the show, his solo vocals are shot so we can watch him singing, as in the Dance. However STevie is shot from the side or from far away for at least 85 percent of the concert. Even on something like BC, which we should be able to "watch" her sing as well, we have mostly side view or far away camera shots, alot of Lindsey and the back up girls as well. Is this something she requested? It is very obvious that Lindsey and Stevie are both filmed and edited completely differently. In comparing this to the Dance, it is most striking as Stevie is filmed head on for most of the Dance dvd but not this one. I spent most of my time looking at the side of her nose and her left eyebrow! :shrug: I guess maybe she wanted it that way?? Either way, the sound is superb and I enjoyed it very much. The quality seems spot on to me and I like how they spent some time showing the back up players, especially Brett's elbow playing on Don't Stop! :nod:

[GypsySorcerer]

.
One thing I was bothered by, I hope you guys haven't already discussed this as I haven't read all six pages, is that Stevie was almost NEVER shot from the front.

I just got it in the mail today. You're right -- she is shot from the side a lot. I also noticed that they didn't do close-ups during her "wailing" moments, except for Rhiannon. For instace, the GDW scream was shown from way back, while on the Dance you saw her face full-on. :shrug:

I was very impressed though. I really like this Rhiannon version. Stand Back kicked ass; Say Goodbye was beautiful, as was Beautiful Child.
I really didn't care for how they did GYOW. But hey, can't have everything. :)

[goyourownway]

i saw the holmdel show a few weeks back and sara and beautiful child almost did me in... but i wasnt prepared for beautiful child on the DVD. it honestly makes it difficult for me to function for a few minutes following... well worth the 20 bucks.

[EveryHour]

I was finally able to sit down and watch the DVD from beginning to end (by choice, I did not watch it on PBS) and I am blown away!!! The sound and picture are SO crystal clear and the performances can't be beat! Favorite moments are NGBA, Say Goodbye, Come, Rhiannon (whoever's been ranking on this around here must own a different DVD than me 'cause this is one of the best versions of this song I've ever heard, period!), Stevie talking about BC and dedicating Landslide to Lindsey :blob2:. What a voice on Landslide too! I also almost keeled over...Gypsy was very surprisingly one of my favorite moments. I can live with the sub par CD...I'm just glad we got another full show DVD (not edited like Mirage or Tango), and that this one was with crazy fans unlike the stiffer, mostly-celebrity Dance audience. A BIG :thumbsup: FOR FM!!!!!!!!!