Former President Ronald Reagan Dies at 93

[Johnny Stew]

Former President Ronald Reagan Dies at 93

2 minutes ago
By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent

WASHINGTON - Ronald Reagan, the cheerful crusader who devoted his presidency to winning the Cold War, trying to scale back government and making people believe it was "morning again in America," died Saturday after a long twilight struggle with Alzheimer's disease, a family friend said. He was 93.

He died at his home in California, according to the friend, who spoke on condition of anonymity. The friend said the family has turned to making funeral arrangements. A formal statement was expected later.

The White House was told his health had taken a turn for the worse in the last several days.

Five years after leaving office, the nation's 40th president told the world in November 1994 that he had been diagnosed with the early stages of Alzheimer's, an incurable illness that destroys brain cells. He said he had begun "the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life."

Reagan body was expected to be taken to his presidential library and museum in Simi Valley, Calif., and then flown to Washington to lie in state in the Capitol Rotunda. His funeral was expected to be at the National Cathedral, an event likely to draw world leaders. The body was to be returned to California for a sunset burial at his library.

Reagan lived longer than any U.S. president, spending his last decade in the shrouded seclusion wrought by his disease, tended by his wife, Nancy, whom he called Mommy, and the select few closest to him. Now, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton are the surviving ex-presidents.

Although fiercely protective of Reagan's privacy, the former first lady let people know his mental condition had deteriorated terribly. Last month, she said: "Ronnie's long journey has finally taken him to a distant place where I can no longer reach him."

Reagan's oldest daughter, Maureen, from his first marriage, died in August 2001 at age 60 from cancer. Three other children survive: Michael, from his first marriage, and Patti Davis and Ron from his second.

Over two terms, from 1981 to 1989, Reagan reshaped the Republican Party in his conservative image, fixed his eye on the demise of the Soviet Union and Eastern European communism and tripled the national debt to $3 trillion in his singleminded competition with the other superpower.

Taking office at age 69, Reagan had already lived a career outside Washington, one that spanned work as a radio sports announcer, an actor, a television performer, a spokesman for the General Electric Co., and a two-term governor of California.

At the time of his retirement, his very name suggested a populist brand of conservative politics that still inspires the Republican Party.

He declared at the outset, "Government is not the solution, it's the problem," although reducing that government proved harder to do in reality than in his rhetoric.

Even so, he challenged the status quo on welfare and other programs that had put government on a growth spurt ever since Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal strengthened the federal presence in the lives of average Americans.

In foreign affairs, he built the arsenals of war while seeking and achieving arms control agreements with the Soviet Union.

In his second term, Reagan was dogged by revelations that he authorized secret arms sales to Iran while seeking Iranian aid to gain release of American hostages held in Lebanon. Some of the money was used to aid rebels fighting the leftist government of Nicaragua.

Despite the ensuing investigations, he left office in 1989 with the highest popularity rating of any retiring president in the history of modern-day public opinion polls.

That reflected, in part, his uncommon ability as a communicator and his way of connecting with ordinary Americans, even as his policies infuriated the left and as his simple verities made him the butt of jokes. "Morning again in America" became his re-election campaign mantra in 1984, but typified his appeal to patriotrism through both terms.

At 69, Reagan was the oldest man ever elected president when he was chosen on Nov. 4, 1980, by an unexpectedly large margin over incumbent Democrat Jimmy Carter.

Near-tragedy struck on his 70th day as president. On March 30, 1981, Reagan was leaving a Washington hotel after addressing labor leaders when a young drifter, John Hinckley, fired six shots at him. A bullet lodged an inch from Reagan's heart, but he recovered.

Four years later he was re-elected by an even greater margin, carrying 49 of the 50 states in defeating Democrat Walter F. Mondale, Carter's vice president.

[darklinensuit]

I did not support many of his policies, but RIP & my condolences to the family.

- Jake

[Merf]

I didn't agree with his politics, but he was a good man, and the president when I was born, so he will always be remembered in my mind for that. My condolences go out to Nancy and his family. God Bless!

[dissention]

I never agreed with him and found him to be as corrupt as they come, but hopefully he's no longer suffering and is in the afterlife, at peace with the wrong he did. RIP.

My condolences go to Nancy, she really loved him.

[gldstwmn]

My condolences to his family. :angel:

[skcin]

I never agreed with him and found him to be as corrupt as they come, but hopefully he's no longer suffering and is in the afterlife, at peace with the wrong he did. RIP.

My condolences go to Nancy, she really loved him.

Well, I was trying to think of something nice to say in this thread. You did it for me, Dissention. Thanks.

Paula

[Hawkeye]

I never agreed with him and found him to be as corrupt as they come, but hopefully he's no longer suffering and is in the afterlife, at peace with the wrong he did. RIP.

My condolences go to Nancy, she really loved him.

I wonder what your Eulogy for Bush will be like :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

As someone who just lost a great uncle to Alzheimer's two weeks ago, I know what a horrendous disease it is and how tragic it is for the victim's family.

RIP, Ronnie. My condolences to the Reagan family...especially Nancy. She has really shown courage through this.

[DeeGeMe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a President but he did not part the Red Sea. Could the Cable News people be in any higher hyper-drive mode than they currently are? And they don't bury RR til Thursday or Friday at the earliest! Jesus, don't tell me we've got to sit through an entire week of this! On the up side, I guess I'll get to see a State Funeral in the US for the first time in 31 years--the last was LBJ's which I barely remember because I was about 8 or 9 at the time.

[Hawkeye]

I agree, I personally could really care less about this. I mean the facct that someone died is always a sad thing, but it's really no different for me then anyone else dying. which of course death is always bad but this is nothing to me. And I guess I "understand" why it's big news. he was the president, and I think its cool he was the president who lived the lohngest out of anyone. And I know who had the old record. Joihn Adama was 90, and I believe there was only one other president to reach 90. You know who's going to be the first to live 100 right. BUSH. And Dissention you'll be in a nursing home somewhere changin W's diapers, and he'll just keep on living JUST to piss you off, and you'll be trying you darndest to switch his heart medician with cyanide but he'll just keep living :laugh:

[darklinensuit]

So what does a state funeral in the US consist of? I can only relate to the Windsors marching off to Westminster Abbey, but for some strange reason I don't imagine that's what this one will consist of.

If a lot of Americans had their way, it would have all the pomp and expense of a Windsor funeral. Their king has died. Some one once said that Reagan was not a good president but would make a hell of a king.:o

- Jake

[strandinthewind]

Just curious......do we have to be polite and send condolences if we hated someone? It seems that everyone goes in the good books when they die. Perhaps it's because I'm not American so I have no grounds on which to appreciate him on any level. He and Iron Lady scare me.

So what does a state funeral in the US consist of? I can only relate to the Windsors marching off to Westminster Abbey, but for some strange reason I don't imagine that's what this one will consist of.

No - but decorum and ettiquite suggest not saying anything at all if that is the case. But, if one feels they must, who am I to keep them down :cool:

Edit: Let me clarify - he died yesterday. I think this is an in memoriam thread, but I could be mistaken. If it is not, then it is neither polite nor impolite to say deragatory things. I would suggest, however, that it might be the higher road to wait a few days, but that is just me.

[DeeGeMe]

If a lot of Americans had their way, it would have all the pomp and expense of a Windsor funeral. Their king has died. Some one once said that Reagan was not a good president but would make a hell of a king.:o

- Jake
Yeah, but Nancy thought she was an Emperoress! My guess is she'll be trying her darndest to out do Jackie Kennedy at the funeral! AS IF!

And on American State Funerals--we haven't had one since 1973 when LBJ kicked. I was like 8 at the time so I don't remember much about it. From what I understand, Reagan's body will lay in state at the US Capitol for a couple of days, and then they'll probably carry him on a horse-drawn cassion through the streets of Washington on the way to the service at the National Cathedral. Then it's back on a plane to California for the burial. That's my best guess. They still haven't even decided if it's going to be on Thursday or Friday at this point. Kinda suprising that they didn't have all these details worked out--it's not like they didn't have enough warning.

I was no fan of Reagan's but I'll say this for him-at least he wasn't as bad as W!

[gldstwmn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a President but he did not part the Red Sea. Could the Cable News people be in any higher hyper-drive mode than they currently are? And they don't bury RR til Thursday or Friday at the earliest! Jesus, don't tell me we've got to sit through an entire week of this! On the up side, I guess I'll get to see a State Funeral in the US for the first time in 31 years--the last was LBJ's which I barely remember because I was about 8 or 9 at the time.

The state funeral I think is goijng to be the most interesting thing to me. It was an endless parade of right wingers on the cable news last night. While I saw some clips I hadn't seen for 20 years, which I enjoyed, I finally had to shut it off after seeing Novak, Giuliani and Michael Deaver all in a row. Ralph.

[sodascouts]

As I said in the deathbed thread, I am very saddened by the loss and his family are in my prayers.

decorum and ettiquite suggest not saying anything at all if that is the case [that you hate Reagan]. But, if one feels they must, who am I to keep them down :cool:

I agree, Jason. If one feels they must use the death of a man as a golden opportunity to express their hatred of him, then the least they could do is start their own thread.

[gldstwmn]

Just curious......do we have to be polite and send condolences if we hated someone? It seems that everyone goes in the good books when they die. Perhaps it's because I'm not American so I have no grounds on which to appreciate him on any level. He and Iron Lady scare me.

So what does a state funeral in the US consist of? I can only relate to the Windsors marching off to Westminster Abbey, but for some strange reason I don't imagine that's what this one will consist of.

I don't know exactly what it will be like. They're all different. I imagine a lot of 21 gun salutes...etc. I read somewhere that Reagan is to be interred in CA and not at Arlington. This is curious to me.
If we wish to discuss the Reagan era, it might be appropriate to start an "I came to bury Caesar not to praise him" thread seperately and leave this one for the condolences. :shrug:

[dissention]

Yeah, but Nancy thought she was an Emperoress!

Yeah, how else could she get a gig on Diff'rent Strokes?

[strandinthewind]

As I said in the deathbed thread, I am very saddened by the loss and his family are in my prayers.



I agree, Jason. If one feels they must use the death of a man as a golden opportunity to express their hatred of him, then the least they could do is start their own thread.


I was going to say that, but then I did not start this thread and the title of this thread does not say it is an in memoriam kind of thing. But, Goldie started one, so I guess it will go there and this will be the "in memoriam thread." BTW - ITA with Goldie that it is appropriate to discuss at any time anyone's legacy dead or alive. I was just unsure of the intent of this particular thread, etc. :cool:

[greatdarkwing]

C'mon people.....He cleaned up the mess Jimmy Carter made as President (a big one at that...c'mon, who sells the Panama canal!?) and helped the economy double in size.

Now, I happen to think he was a great man and a great human being (I hope this doesnt come as a shock to anyone, LOL). My deepest thoughts and prayers go out to Nancy (She loved him so much and was there every step of the way for him).

~Alex

My two conservative cents :angel:

[dissention]

C'mon people.....He cleaned up the mess Jimmy Carter made as President (a big one at that...c'mon, who sells the Panama canal!?) and helped the economy double in size.

That's myth, not fact. :wavey:

Reagan instigated trickle-down economics. Within the first year of the policy, we were in a depression caused by the policy. The 27% cut was slewed two to one in favor of those making over $200,000 per year, in percentages, and far more in real dollars. By the end of the second year, increases in state and local taxes more than made up for the cut for the middle class. Then Reagan increased the Social Security tax, doubling effective tax on the middle income, and widening the disparity.

Wages throughout Reagan/Bush remained negative in real dollars for the next 12 years, the longest and worst growth performance in middle class wages in US history. Average national growth was the lowest since the early 30s. Trickle down is proven to be the worst economic idea is US history when the squeeze on savings and the drain on investment capital force another recession in 1990.

He increased the defense budget to 240% previous levels, bankrupting the national treasury in the face of trickle-down.

He deregulated Banking and Credit Bureaus, leading to the 800 billion dollar bailout of the early 90s when the results of that deregulation forced the middle class to pay off rich folk for cheating us.

He broke labor unions by striking at the Air Traffic Controllers, leading to massive safety shortfalls in the air industry, and more importantly, a slow erosion of US worker wages and benefits.

And it's because of him that Shrub implemented these awful f*cking tax cuts.

[gldstwmn]

C'mon people.....He cleaned up the mess Jimmy Carter made as President (a big one at that...c'mon, who sells the Panama canal!?) and helped the economy double in size.


My two conservative cents :angel:

Um, Carter literally inherited the mess of Nixon/Ford. Ford did the best he could IMO, with what was left to him. I think it would have been much more disastrous if Nixon hadn't been pardoned.
The Panama Canal Treaty was one of Carter's crowning achievements. President Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002. I believe he was the only president to have even been bestowed such an honor

[strandinthewind]

Um, Carter literally inherited the mess of Nixon/Ford. Ford did the best he could IMO, with what was left to him. I think it would have been much more disastrous if Nixon hadn't been pardoned.
The Panama Canal Treaty was one of Carter's crowning achievements. President Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002. I believe he was the only president to have even been bestowed such an honor

Yea, but alot of that was from the Vietnam War (which although it had been brewing for a long time, started with a Democrat mind you :cool: http://www.vietnam-war.info/timeline/ ) and Carter did not do anything significant to remedy it :laugh: And, mind you I really liked Jimmy Carter - I thought he had more integrity than any President EVER. The problem was and is (see Dissention here I am being cynical :laugh: ) - it is impossible to make it in politics without being a two faced jerk and I hate that - but it is the unfortunate and awful truth. I mean name one President other than Carter that was not. I cannot think of any :cool:

[dissention]

Yea, but alot of that was from the Vietnam War (which although it had been brewing for a long time, started with a Democrat mind you :cool: http://www.vietnam-war.info/timeline/ ) and Carter did not do anything significant to remedy it :laugh: And, mind you I really liked Jimmy Carter - I thought he had more integrity than any President EVER. The problem was and is (see Dissention here I am being cynical :laugh: ) - it is impossible to make it in politics without being a two faced jerk and I hate that - but it is the unfortunate and awful truth. I mean name one President other than Carter that was not. I cannot think of any :cool:

No you didn't! :shocked: :laugh: Don't forget that the Democrats HATED Lyndon B. Johnson with a passion. The reason he didn't run for reelection was because they told him they would not support him as the nominee.

AND - Vietnam had been brewing for years, even before Kennedy took office.

[strandinthewind]

No you didn't! :shocked: :laugh: Don't forget that the Democrats HATED Lyndon B. Johnson with a passion. The reason he didn't run for reelection was because they told him they would not support him as the nominee.

AND - Vietnam had been brewing for years, even before Kennedy took office.

I know - the French made a mess of that one that we had to clean up. But, the fact is Johnson, who they elected with Kennedy, was the one who sent them in. As with W, the buck stops with the Pres. - I am so glad I got to make that analogy :woohoo: :laugh: :wavey:

[dissention]

I know - the French made a mess of that one that we had to clean up. But, the fact is Johnson, who they elected with Kennedy, was the one who sent them in. As with W, the buck stops with the Pres. - I am so glad I got to make that analogy :woohoo: :laugh: :wavey:

And I totally agree. For want of a better phrase, Johnson was a wet fart of a human turd. ;)

[strandinthewind]

And I totally agree. For want of a better phrase, Johnson was a wet fart of a human turd. ;)

Arguably the biggest crook ever in the WH, and that is a high place amongst many!!!!!! :laugh:

[dissention]

Arguably the biggest crook ever in the WH, and that is a high place amongst many!!!!!! :laugh:

Ugh, and we were on a roll, too.

You just force me to bring Shrub into everything, eh? He's the biggest crook, man.

[gldstwmn]

And I totally agree. For want of a better phrase, Johnson was a wet fart of a human turd. ;)


Before we start the ragfest on LBJ, let's not forget that he did carry through and sign the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[dissention]

Before we start the ragfest on LBJ, let's not forget that he did carry through and sign the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

I'm primarily talking about his Vietnam policies. They were horrific and the way he lied to the people (i.e. Gulf of Tonkin) and stubbornly refused to leave Vietnam made him a real **** in my book. The man was all ego.

[gldstwmn]

I'm primarily talking about his Vietnam policies. They were horrific and the way he lied to the people (i.e. Gulf of Tonkin) and stubbornly refused to leave Vietnam made him a real **** in my book. The man was all ego.

You know you'll get no argument from me on that. With respect to the Strand's comment on the economy under Johnson, the "guns and butter' economy worked pretty well.

[dissention]

You know you'll get no argument from me on that.

Have we ever had an argument? :lol: :xoxo:

We might as well be the same damn poster. :eek:

[gldstwmn]

Have we ever had an argument? :lol: :xoxo:

We might as well be the same damn poster. :eek:

I have to wonder if some people don't think we are. ;) :laugh: :wavey:

[dissention]

I have to wonder if some people don't think we are. ;) :laugh: :wavey:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

You know you'll get no argument from me on that. With respect to the Strand's comment on the economy under Johnson, the "guns and butter' economy worked pretty well.

Now Now, someone had to pay for the Vietnam war or rather pay the SS trust fund back for financing the Vietnam war. Johnson was a crook, a warmonger, and a jerk for Vietnam no matter what else he did. Interestingly, it took of all people - tricky Dick to get us out :laugh: Oh politics.

[gldstwmn]

Now Now, someone had to pay for the Vietnam war or rather pay the SS trust fund back for financing the Vietnam war.

That's what the war tax was for. It was also the last time the US had a balanced budget until the Clinton presidency. :)
Johnson called Vietnam his "bitch mistress."

[gldstwmn]

Johnson was a crook, a warmonger, and a jerk for Vietnam no matter what else he did.

Including giving black people the right to vote? Dude, come on.

[strandinthewind]

That's what the war tax was for. It was also the last time the US had a balanced budget until the Clinton presidency. :)
Johnson called Vietnam his "bitch mistress."


Sighes :laugh: Johnson leid and started the already escalating French mess in Vietnam into a full fledged but unnamed war. Yes, there was a tax - but it did not pay for the war. Then once we were in, we could not get out. So, more money had to be spent and that money far exceeded any rev. gained by the tax so they raided the SS trust fund. A search on google for "vietnam war tax social security" provides articles (some from VERY scary sites :laugh: ) that demonstrate this.

[strandinthewind]

Including giving black people the right to vote? Dude, come on.

Okay - good for him - in fact here is a site on the Civil Rights Act http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/39.htm that praises Johnson. But, by the same token he killing thousands in Nam based on a lie and he knew it was a lie. I think the latter outweighs the former. But, maybe you do not. I cannot believe you are supporting Johnson. But, you liberals and your blind support :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Okay - good for him - in fact here is a site on the Civil Rights Act http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/39.htm that praises Johnson. But, by the same token he killing thousands in Nam based on a lie and he knew it was a lie. I think the latter outweighs the former. But, maybe you do not. I cannot believe you are supporting Johnson. But, you liberals and your blind support :laugh:

He also created the EEOC and HUD. :rolleyes: I take it you don't find the Civil Rights Act a significant accomplishment?

[gldstwmn]

Sighes :laugh: Johnson leid and started the already escalating French mess in Vietnam into a full fledged but unnamed war. Yes, there was a tax - but it did not pay for the war. Then once we were in, we could not get out. So, more money had to be spent and that money far exceeded any rev. gained by the tax so they raided the SS trust fund. A search on google for "vietnam war tax social security" provides articles (some from VERY scary sites :laugh: ) that demonstrate this.

I found sites that talked about a "unified budget." It's not as though he went "Hey, let's use all the money from Social Security." Way to spin it, O'Lielly. :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

He also created the EEOC and HUD. :rolleyes: I take it you don't find the Civil Rights Act a significant accomplishment?

Hello - I said I did. I think those are all great things. Let me say it again. Those are all great things. But, to me and probably alot of other people, intentionally starting the Vietnam War based on an event he knew did not happen probably overshadows them :shrug:

[dissention]

I found sites that talked about a "unified budget." It's not as though he went "Hey, let's use all the money from Social Security." Way to spin it, O'Lielly. :thumbsup:

Now, now. Don't be tacky. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

[QUOTE=strandinthewindI cannot believe you are supporting Johnson. [/QUOTE]

See post #31.

[dissention]

Hello - I said I did. I think those are all great things. Let me say it again. Those are all great things. But, to me and probably alot of other people, intentionally starting the Vietnam War based on an event he knew did not happen probably overshadows them :shrug:

Just like the minor accomplishments in Iraq are overshadowed and made inconsequential because of the lies and half-truths sold to the American people. That puts to rest your argument next time you applaud our "accomplishments."

[strandinthewind]

I found sites that talked about a "unified budget." It's not as though he went "Hey, let's use all the money from Social Security." Way to spin it, O'Lielly. :thumbsup:]

Read on - the unified buget idea was to make all the federal monies the same. The govt. still uses this method to balance the budget. Go into the last 25 Federal budgets and take the SS trust and other trusts out of the equation and see what happens. Congress has essentially free range to borrow from these funds. That is what happened in Nam:


If you do not believe me, here is the U.S. Treas. saying it:

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/markets/national-debt.html#q3

:cool:

[strandinthewind]

Just like the minor accomplishments in Iraq are overshadowed and made inconsequential because of the lies and half-truths sold to the American people. That puts to rest your argument next time you applaud our "accomplishments."

Do I have bring uop the fact that Clinton and Kerry supported this war in Iraq again :laugh:

Seriously, the mindset on the two were different. But, you are correct and that is why I say now as i have been saying FOR THE PAST YEAR :laugh: W lied about the exigency of the threat of SH and for that he should be impeached. That being said, I think it is fair to say and in fact hope that we are making accomplishments in Iraq. I mean I want the troops to come home as soon as they can. Therefore, I am hoping this works even though I think it will not.

[gldstwmn]

]

Read on - the unified buget idea was to make all the federal monies the same.

Again, all monies are in one pool. Can you show me where he said "Hey we're going to use all the money from SS to fund the war"? If you want to use that reasoning, fine. W is looting SS to fund his war profiteering in Iraq. :)

[strandinthewind]

Again, all monies are in one pool. Can you show me where he said "Hey we're going to use all the money from SS to fund the war"? If you want to use that reasoning, fine. W is looting SS to fund his war profiteering in Iraq. :)

And so did Johnson - do you think they just unified the budget for the sake of doing it :laugh:. The U.S. Treasury web site notes the national debt began rising at the time of the Vietnam War. I wonder why? I mean come on, the govt. borrowed money to pay for it and they borrowed it from the SS trust fund. They are still borrowing from it to this day - don't ya remember Al G. and his lockbox :laugh: I cannot believe you are actually arguing that Congress does not routinely borrow fromt he SS trust fund - but if you want to believe that - go right on ahead :cool:

P.S. what does W have to do with Johnson's war other than Johnson's unified budget gave all subsequent President's and Congresses the right to loot the SS trust fund :shrug: I think you just made my point :cool:

[gldstwmn]

I cannot believe you are actually arguing that Congress does not routinely borrow fromt he SS trust fund - but if you want to believe that - go right on ahead :cool:



I'm not. I asked you to show me where Johnson said "Hey, let's use the money from social security to pay for the war." :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

P.S. what does W have to do with Johnson's war other than Johnson's unified budget gave all subsequent President's and Congresses the right to loot the SS trust fund :shrug: I think you just made my point :cool:

I don't know. What do Bush's probelms have to do with Clinton? I think you just made my point for me. :cool:

[strandinthewind]

I'm not. I asked you to show me where Johnson said "Hey, let's use the money from social security to pay for the war." :shrug:

I did - he used the SS Trust fund - the Treas. Dept. site shows that. Of he did not, then why did the debt go up starting with the Vietnam War. It was because they, through the passage of that legislation, allowed themselves to put IOU's in the fund. So, yes, LBJ raided the trust fund to pay for Nam. I always thought this was common knowledge because they are still doing it to this day :shrug: Dissention - do you know anything about this?

[strandinthewind]

I don't know. What do Bush's probelms have to do with Clinton? I think you just made my point for me. :cool:

Clinton, like all Presidents since Johnson, used the fund to balance the budget, which included several military actions!!!! That is my point.

Here are some sites showing how they raid the trust fund:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE2/budget.html

http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=3974&sequence=0

http://home.flash.net/~bob001/ss.htm

Here some on Johnson:

http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2004/0416.asp

http://www.ourfuture.org/issues_and_campaigns/socialsecurity/resources/op_eds/readarticle97.cfm

In the end, Johnson did some really good things, but I think the Vietnam thing overshadowed them.

[dissention]

I don't know. What do Bush's probelms have to do with Clinton? I think you just made my point for me. :cool:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I? Love you. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I? Love you. :lol:

Foul, the reason we were even talking about W in the first place was because I had her cornered about Johnson and the SS trust fund, so, she spun it to W. I believe that is in violation of her mantra that the buck stops with that Pres. Or, like most D's when pushed, they just bitch about W. :cool:

[gldstwmn]

I did - he used the SS Trust fund - the Treas. Dept. site shows that. Of he did not, then why did the debt go up starting with the Vietnam War. It was because they, through the passage of that legislation, allowed themselves to put IOU's in the fund. So, yes, LBJ raided the trust fund to pay for Nam. I always thought this was common knowledge because they are still doing it to this day :shrug: Dissention - do you know anything about this?

Please post a link to a direct quote of Johnson saying he used ss to fund war. :)

[gldstwmn]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I? Love you. :lol:

Bows. To use a familiar phrase, "I love you more." ;)

[dissention]

Goldie, get to the BN message board, I need back up. Jason is spouting his right-wing talking points again. :eek: :lol:

[gldstwmn]

Foul, the reason we were even talking about W in the first place was because I had her cornered about Johnson and the SS trust fund, so, she spun it to W. I believe that is in violation of her mantra that the buck stops with that Pres. Or, like most D's when pushed, they just bitch about W. :cool:

I was just using your own apologist/enabler logic on you. :woohoo:

[gldstwmn]

Goldie, get to the BN message board, I need back up. Jason is spouting his right-wing talking points again. :eek: :lol:

Oy. That's the Conservative Belt over there. Okay. :lol:

[dissention]

Bows. To use a familiar phrase, "I love you more." ;)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

"Stop reading and give me your real opinion, you MORON!" :lol:

Did you hear her today?! Yikes!

[dissention]

Oy. That's the Conservative Belt over there. Okay. :lol:

Actually, 19 people are Kerry supporters, as opposed to 11 Bush-ies. :D

It's in the General Discussion forum under "Stole this fromt he Legacy." Last page. ;)

[strandinthewind]

Goldie, get to the BN message board, I need back up. Jason is spouting his right-wing talking points again. :eek: :lol:

AND calling you out :p

[dissention]

AND calling you out :p

That's alright, I'm calling out your BS, so we're even. But I have back-up. :lol:

[gldstwmn]

I'm shocked. :shocked:

[strandinthewind]

That's alright, I'm calling out your BS, so we're even. But I have back-up. :lol:


and - might I add how lovely and well spoken your calvary is :woohoo:

[strandinthewind]

I was just using your own apologist/enabler logic on you. :woohoo:


When ya can't say the truth ya spin - it is okay - we all do it. I just admit it :laugh:

Also, you never commented on Johnson using SS $$$ to pay for Nam.

[gldstwmn]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

"Stop reading and give me your real opinion, you MORON!" :lol:

Did you hear her today?! Yikes!

Oh yes. It was the most compelling part of the program along with the woman who called from Wisconsin.

[gldstwmn]

When ya can't say the truth ya spin - it is okay - we all do it. I just admit it :laugh:

Also, you never commented on Johnson using SS $$$ to pay for Nam.

Yes I did. Post #56. :cool:

[strandinthewind]

Yes I did. Post #56. :cool:


I already did that with sites I posted. I mean do you really think there is one with Johnson, the crook, saying "Hey everybody, if its okay with you, were are going to pay for the war with SS trust fund money - okay - great thanks" :rolleyes: You know that is exactly what happened. So, come on and admit it. The funny thing is Dissention knows it too. I want my victory damnit :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :wavey:

Interestingly, there is no direct statement from W saying he used Afganistan money for Iraq. Yet, you all tout that as if it is the truth, which it is mind you. But, to get to it, we have to rely on non-direct evidence.

[gldstwmn]

Goldie, get to the BN message board, I need back up. Jason is spouting his right-wing talking points again. :eek: :lol:

Oh honey, I'd like to help you but we've already had that argument over here. Besides, I am watching the most incredible lightening storm right now. :)