FM and John Kerry

[dontlookdown]

There were a bunch of Ledgies who were really bothered to hear that Lindsey and Stevie were supporting John Kerry for president earlier this year.
Here's an AP article that mentions how the band has been sharing their tour plane with Kerry.
Whether or not you like it, The U.S. citizens in the band are behind John Kerry as is most of the state of California.




Kerry's Campaign Gets New Airplane


Tuesday May 25, 2004 2:01 AM


By NEDRA PICKLER

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - John Kerry's presidential campaign is scheduled for takeoff Tuesday on a new plane designed for work and some play.

The Boeing 757-200 includes two conference tables, eight phone lines, a copy machine, a printer and a power outlet in every seat for laptops and cell phone charging. It also has a standup bar for socializing.

The plane is emblazoned ``John Kerry'' and ``President'' and can seat 94 in five cabins. The first cabin is for Kerry, a second contains the conference tables, a third for his staff and the last two seat the media and Secret Service.

Kerry has been using several chartered planes while waiting for his own to be finished. Most recently, he was sharing a plane with the band Fleetwood Mac.

Kerry spokeswoman Allison Dobson said the plane will help Kerry in his cross-country travels because it can fly coast-to-coast without refueling and it can land and take off on short runways at smaller airports.

Kerry plans to speak briefly before the plane's first campaign flight Tuesday from Washington to Portland, Ore.

[dissention]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Stevie's a Democrat and it's obvious that Lindsey is on the far-left (*cough*ACLU*cough*), so it's not surprising to me. I don't even think that Mick and John are citizens, so it doesn't matter what they think. :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Here's an AP article that mentions how the band has been sharing their tour plane with Kerry.
Whether or not you like it, The U.S. citizens in the band are behind John Kerry as is most of the state of California.

Uh, dude, where in the AP story you posted does it say Lindsey and Stevie "are behind John Kerry?" Perhaps you forgot to post that piece?

Like it or not, you insist on making a connection that simply isn't there. Do you know how these shared charter planes work? That FM and John Kerry have shared a plane indicates no other connnection than simply sharing an aircraft. The company that owns the aircraft is merely scheduling the plane between the Kerry campaign and FM. Otherwise, the plane would sit on some tarmac some of the time, losing money for the company. More than likely, FM and Kerry have used two or three different planes. The story even mentions that Kerry has used several.

It is possible that FM is supporting Kerry, but your story doesn't prove it. Nor does the sharing of an aircraft. It is absurd to insist that because they share the plane, the band supports the candidate. By that reasoning, simply because I have shared a plane with George Steinbrenner, I therefore am a Yankees fan? No way. Sox all the way!

[dissention]

It is possible that FM is supporting Kerry, but your story doesn't prove it. Nor does the sharing of an aircraft. It is absurd to insist that because they share the plane, the band supports the candidate. By that reasoning, simply because I have shared a plane with George Steinbrenner, I therefore am a Yankees fan? No way. Sox all the way!

I totally agree, but I think that we could safely assume that they do support him. Stevie's donated money to the democrats and gushed over Clinton, and Lindsey has said bad things about both Shrubs and lent his songs to GLAAD and the ACLU. I don't think it's any stretch of the imagination. :laugh:

[darklinensuit]

We see no carbs in sight
Watching her recline
She gets on a Kerry plane
She's done it a thousand times

When a Dem flies out on Mac's charter
He listens to Oh Well in the flight
Affairs of the state
For Mac's candidate
Usually veer far from Right

I know you don't agree
(Everypost you tell me)
I know you don't agree

I know Mac loves John
Everyday they fly John
Won't say they adore him
What can we say
You can elect him
You can't delay him
They do vote for him, most of the time
Anywhere they land
Anytime they land
Fly away... Fly away

When nobody sees them
At least not together
We rarely find out
We spend every day
Waiting for the day...

When everyvoter finds out

Don't you know.... don't you know... :wavey:

- Jake

[CarneVaca]

I totally agree, but I think that we could safely assume that they do support him. Stevie's donated money to the democrats and gushed over Clinton, and Lindsey has said bad things about both Shrubs and lent his songs to GLAAD and the ACLU. I don't think it's any stretch of the imagination. :laugh:

Assumptions. :rolleyes:

Methinks Lindsey is too liberal for even Kerry.

[darklinensuit]

Assumptions. :rolleyes: .

Assume-ay...says the Ledgie that they burn ;) :wavey:

- Jake

[dissention]

Methinks Lindsey is too liberal for even Kerry.

Methinks Lindsey is so liberal that he'll do anything to get Shrub out of office, and that includes not wasting his vote on Nader.

[strandinthewind]

Kerry is a liberal :shrug:

:cool:

[CarneVaca]

Methinks Lindsey is so liberal that he'll do anything to get Shrub out of office, and that includes not wasting his vote on Nader.

Methinks Lindsey will be so busy crafting his next batch of songs that he won't even vote.

[dissention]

Methinks Lindsey will be so busy crafting his next batch of songs that he won't even vote.

Methinks you're right.

[CarneVaca]

Kerry is a liberal :shrug:

:cool:

By southern standards, I suppose.

[CarneVaca]

Methinks you're right.


Aaahh... and all is well with the world once again. ;)

[dissention]

By southern standards, I suppose.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Jason thinks Strom Thurmond is a liberal. Because, hey, no conservative would canoodle with a death row inmate in the back of a limo hours before their execution. That's the behavior of a liberal. :laugh:

[Livia]

We see no carbs in sight
Watching her recline
She gets on a Kerry plane
She's done it a thousand times

When a Dem flies out on Mac's charter
He listens to Oh Well in the flight
Affairs of the state
For Mac's candidate
Usually veer far from Right

I know you don't agree
(Everypost you tell me)
I know you don't agree

I know Mac loves John
Everyday they fly John
Won't say they adore him
What can we say
You can elect him
You can't delay him
They do vote for him, most of the time
Anywhere they land
Anytime they land
Fly away... Fly away

When nobody sees them
At least not together
We rarely find out
We spend every day
Waiting for the day...

When everyvoter finds out

Don't you know.... don't you know... :wavey:

- Jake

Me thinks this is brilliant! Good one, Jake! :lol:

[CarneVaca]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Jason thinks Strom Thurmond is a liberal. Because, hey, no conservative would canoodle with a death row inmate in the back of a limo hours before their execution. That's the behavior of a liberal. :laugh:

Methinks it might be a while before Jason replies. He's too busy fighting the good fight elsewhere in the FM-fan cyber world.

[strandinthewind]

Hogwash - Jason a/k/a "Achilles" is able to battle all infidels on all fronts at the same time!!! :D

Poor Strom "I think Kay Bailey H. is a hot young peice of a$$" Thurmond - doin' the maid and supressing her civil rights at the same time. What an ass :mad:

[CarneVaca]

Hogwash - Jason a/k/a "Achilles" is able to battle all infidels on all fronts at the same time!!! :D

Poor Strom "I think Kay Bailey H. is a hot young peice of a$$" Thurmond - doin' the maid and supressing her civil rights at the same time. What an ass :mad:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Aahh, Jason, you're sounding more like Dissention and me by the minute.

[gldstwmn]

There were a bunch of Ledgies who were really bothered to hear that Lindsey and Stevie were supporting John Kerry for president earlier this year.
Here's an AP article that mentions how the band has been sharing their tour plane with Kerry.
Whether or not you like it, The U.S. citizens in the band are behind John Kerry as is most of the state of California.




Kerry's Campaign Gets New Airplane


Tuesday May 25, 2004 2:01 AM


By NEDRA PICKLER

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - John Kerry's presidential campaign is scheduled for takeoff Tuesday on a new plane designed for work and some play.

The Boeing 757-200 includes two conference tables, eight phone lines, a copy machine, a printer and a power outlet in every seat for laptops and cell phone charging. It also has a standup bar for socializing.

The plane is emblazoned ``John Kerry'' and ``President'' and can seat 94 in five cabins. The first cabin is for Kerry, a second contains the conference tables, a third for his staff and the last two seat the media and Secret Service.

Kerry has been using several chartered planes while waiting for his own to be finished. Most recently, he was sharing a plane with the band Fleetwood Mac.

Kerry spokeswoman Allison Dobson said the plane will help Kerry in his cross-country travels because it can fly coast-to-coast without refueling and it can land and take off on short runways at smaller airports.

Kerry plans to speak briefly before the plane's first campaign flight Tuesday from Washington to Portland, Ore.

Have I mentioned that I hold you in the highest regard? :lol:

[gldstwmn]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Stevie's a Democrat and it's obvious that Lindsey is on the far-left (*cough*ACLU*cough*), so it's not surprising to me. I don't even think that Mick and John are citizens, so it doesn't matter what they think. :laugh:

Don't forget GLAAD.

[Johnny Stew]

Aahh, Jason, you're sounding more like Dissention and me by the minute.

:eek: Run, Jason! Save yourself while you still can! ;) :laugh: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

:eek: Run, Jason! Save yourself while you still can! ;) :laugh: :laugh:

thank you my handsome mad hatter!!!! :eek:

[CarneVaca]

:eek: Run, Jason! Save yourself while you still can! ;) :laugh: :laugh:

No way! Too late! :blob2: :]

[dissention]

:eek: Run, Jason! Save yourself while you still can! ;) :laugh: :laugh:

Wise ass!

You'll all be over here on the darkside eventually. It's simply a matter of time. The venom is as infectious as the laughter resulting from a Shrub misnomer. :lol:

[dissention]

Methinks it might be a while before Jason replies. He's too busy fighting the good fight elsewhere in the FM-fan cyber world.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Methinks I'll be laughing for ten minutes straight.

[strandinthewind]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Methinks I'll be laughing for ten minutes straight.


Well, if that is what it takes to keep you silent for 10 minutes . . . :shrug: :laugh: :shocked: :lol:

[Johnny Stew]

You'll all be over here on the darkside eventually. It's simply a matter of time. The venom is as infectious as the laughter resulting from a Shrub misnomer. :lol:

Ah, many who were more powerful than you, have tried to persuade me over to the dark side... but it's never worked. I shall remain forever on the side of good and virtue. The universe needs balance after all. ;) :laugh:

[dissention]

Well, if that is what it takes to keep you silent for 10 minutes . . . :shrug: :laugh: :shocked: :lol:

:lol: That would take a miracle, not a sharp barb from Carney. ;)

[ThePenguin]

Stevie's a Democrat and it's obvious that Lindsey is on the far-left (*cough*ACLU*cough*), so it's not surprising to me. I don't even think that Mick and John are citizens, so it doesn't matter what they think.
__________________

FWIW John IS a US citizen now, and he is also a 'staunch Republican' (or at least has been in the past.). Just wanted to mention it. :-)

--Lis

[dissention]

FWIW John IS a US citizen now, and he is also a 'staunch Republican' (or at least has been in the past.). Just wanted to mention it. :-)

--Lis

Thanks, Lisa. :D I'm sorry to hear that, though. :lol: I'd like to sit John down and pick his brain for a few hours, expecially to see what he thinks of Shrub. :D

[jbrownsjr]

Thanks, Lisa. :D I'm sorry to hear that, though. :lol: I'd like to sit John down and pick his brain for a few hours, expecially to see what he thinks of Shrub. :D

dissention, I live for you! :laugh:

[ThePenguin]

Yeah, I'd be interested to know what he thinks of him also. ugh, I just don't care for Bush. John told me about 9 yrs ago that he 'objected to Clinton, period!' I also remember telling him that I was worried that if his guys got in office, that I might be out of a job!! (I was a Head Start teacher back then, and head Start is never high on the Rep's list of priorities!)

-Lis

[dissention]

dissention, I live for you! :laugh:

I'm going to have to stop posting because my head is getting too big to fit into my office. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Stevie's a Democrat and it's obvious that Lindsey is on the far-left (*cough*ACLU*cough*), so it's not surprising to me. I don't even think that Mick and John are citizens, so it doesn't matter what they think.
__________________

FWIW John IS a US citizen now, and he is also a 'staunch Republican' (or at least has been in the past.). Just wanted to mention it. :-)

--Lis

Thanks for the info. John married a US citizen as did Mick, so I guess they would be citizens if they wanted. It's a pity McVie's a Republican. Come on John, they're evil. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[dissention]

Yeah, I'd be interested to know what he thinks of him also. ugh, I just don't care for Bush. John told me about 9 yrs ago that he 'objected to Clinton, period!' I also remember telling him that I was worried that if his guys got in office, that I might be out of a job!! (I was a Head Start teacher back then, and head Start is never high on the Rep's list of priorities!)

-Lis

Eeek. He's cut so much from Head Start programs that it's scary. Last year they had to close on certain days in my area because they didn't have enough funding. It's terrible.

[gldstwmn]

Yeah, I'd be interested to know what he thinks of him also. ugh, I just don't care for Bush. John told me about 9 yrs ago that he 'objected to Clinton, period!' I also remember telling him that I was worried that if his guys got in office, that I might be out of a job!! (I was a Head Start teacher back then, and head Start is never high on the Rep's list of priorities!)

-Lis

So I take it you're not a Head Start teacher anymore?

[ThePenguin]

No, I worked for Head Start for 5 years and quit when I had my daughter. It is a great program but for it to really work it NEEDS funding. IMO THIS is where this country should be investing millions, not out on Mars or in space somewhere. Those kids truly are born w/ so much stacked against them; it broke my heart to see 17 year old parents trade their food stamps for drugs or alcohol, or spend their monthly checks on fancy hip sneakers instead of paying their electric bills, or buying winter coats for their kids. I could go on and on. Head Start could accomplish so much more if it had the $ to do so.

-Lis

[gldstwmn]

No, I worked for Head Start for 5 years and quit when I had my daughter. It is a great program but for it to really work it NEEDS funding. IMO THIS is where this country should be investing millions, not out on Mars or in space somewhere. Those kids truly are born w/ so much stacked against them; it broke my heart to see 17 year old parents trade their food stamps for drugs or alcohol, or spend their monthly checks on fancy hip sneakers instead of paying their electric bills, or buying winter coats for their kids. I could go on and on. Head Start could accomplish so much more if it had the $ to do so.

-Lis

I completely agree with you. Kerry wants to completely fund HS. Hopefully, we'll get the Democratic Congress to do it.

[dissention]

or spend their monthly checks on fancy hip sneakers instead of paying their electric bills, or buying winter coats for their kids.

Did you hear what Bill Cosby said last week?! Something like:

"We fought for integrated education, but the poor blacks of our country are not fulfilling their part of the bargain. Instead of paying bills or sending their kids to college, they buy $150 sneakers. And I can't even have a conversation with these people. All they say is 'Who is you?' and 'What you is?'"

I couldn't believe it!!!! Then he said that African-Americans should stop complaining every time a black kid is shot. He said that they get shot for stealing "Coke and pund cake" and instead of bitching about him being shot, they should ask what the hell he was doing with "the pound cake." :laugh:

I was stunned. He is getting to be quite risque in his old age.

[strandinthewind]

No, I worked for Head Start for 5 years and quit when I had my daughter. It is a great program but for it to really work it NEEDS funding. IMO THIS is where this country should be investing millions, not out on Mars or in space somewhere. Those kids truly are born w/ so much stacked against them; it broke my heart to see 17 year old parents trade their food stamps for drugs or alcohol, or spend their monthly checks on fancy hip sneakers instead of paying their electric bills, or buying winter coats for their kids. I could go on and on. Head Start could accomplish so much more if it had the $ to do so.

-Lis

I hear ya loud and clear!!! I used to tutor kids from the projects in New Orleans after school. It would break my heart to see the literal abuse by what I thought all of their parents would cause them with their financial choices. But, it always brighten my day when I finally realized in my small micro world - those parents were the minority and most of the kids that were there were there because their parent or parents (sometimes grandparent(s)) were working and they could not go home. I had these people cry to me and praise me for all of my good work. I mean I was just doing this in the beginning because I had nothing better to do and thought it was a good thing to do. I had NO IDEA the positive effect it had on so many. I mean when, as I had, an 11 year old kid's dad who is illiterate like his father before him and has worked in hard labor in the hot Louisiana sun for 10 hours picks up his kid and then cries on your shoulder because his kid can read and is now getting better marks in school because of the program you are a small part of - PPHHEEWW!!!!!

I mean that is so hard to take when you you are not in any way from that - it is disconcerting and fulfilling at the same time.

So, yes, they need to fund any and all programs like Head Start.

[darklinensuit]

Me thinks this is brilliant! Good one, Jake! :lol:

Methanks ye. :wavey:

- Jake

[strandinthewind]

Did you hear what Bill Cosby said last week?! Something like:

"We fought for integrated education, but the poor blacks of our country are not fulfilling their part of the bargain. Instead of paying bills or sending their kids to college, they buy $150 sneakers. And I can't even have a conversation with these people. All they say is 'Who is you?' and 'What you is?'"

I couldn't believe it!!!! Then he said that African-Americans should stop complaining every time a black kid is shot. He said that they get shot for stealing "Coke and pund cake" and instead of bitching about him being shot, they should ask what the hell he was doing with "the pound cake." :laugh:

I was stunned. He is getting to be quite risque in his old age.

Well, he is saying the truth about alot of people. I just think it will have the ramifications of being applied to all African Americans and that is the danger of what he said, etc.

[ThePenguin]

>>Did you hear what Bill Cosby said last week?! Something like:

"We fought for integrated education, but the poor blacks of our country are not fulfilling their part of the bargain. Instead of paying bills or sending their kids to college, they buy $150 sneakers. And I can't even have a conversation with these people. All they say is 'Who is you?' and 'What you is?'">>

No, I didn't hear that. The problems in the urban areas are just too bountiful to list. But I will try. :-) The schools suck. The neighborhoods are just outright run down and dangerous. Freaking pit bulls run rampant and attack kids all the time. (Two of my students had to climb on the top of a car w/ thier mother, to escape a dog that had ripped the arm right off one kid's leather coat. If he wasn't wearing the coat, he would have lost his arm.) It has become too easy for teens to sell/use drugs to make some $ and have instant gratification instead of slaving away at Burger King for a fraction of the $. Father figures are almost non existent. Young teen girls have babies too young and w/ too many different guys.

I have to say that many older women in these urban areas are stronger than you can possibly imagine. They don't take any sh*t.They first raise thier kids, then thier grandkids, and then their *great* grandkids, all by the ripe old age of maybe 50. I learned so much from the women in Trenton NJ, it was quite an eye opener for this novice white girl from an upper middle class suburb!

-Lis

[gldstwmn]

>>I have to say that many older women in these urban areas are stronger than you can possibly imagine. They don't take any sh*t.They first raise thier kids, then thier grandkids, and then their *great* grandkids, all by the ripe old age of maybe 50. I learned so much from the women in Trenton NJ, it was quite an eye opener for this novice white girl from an upper middle class suburb!

-Lis


Trenton? Whoa. You have my respect.

[CarneVaca]

Did you hear what Bill Cosby said last week?! Something like:

"We fought for integrated education, but the poor blacks of our country are not fulfilling their part of the bargain. Instead of paying bills or sending their kids to college, they buy $150 sneakers. And I can't even have a conversation with these people. All they say is 'Who is you?' and 'What you is?'"


Maybe Bill Cosby can show them how to become comedians, make an insane amount of money with some bull****, feel-good mediocre sitcom, and collect the royalties for the rest of their lives.

Will they, then, be allowed to buy $150 sneakers without criticism?

Seems to me, multimillionaire Bill is criticizing the wrong people. But what do I know? :shrug:

[CarneVaca]

The problems in the urban areas are just too bountiful to list.

Indeed. Maybe Mr. Cosby should visit and see how it really is.

[dissention]

Maybe Bill Cosby can show them how to become comedians, make an insane amount of money with some bull****, feel-good mediocre sitcom, and collect the royalties for the rest of their lives.

Will they, then, be allowed to buy $150 sneakers without criticism?

Seems to me, multimillionaire Bill is criticizing the wrong people. But what do I know? :shrug:

I agree to a point. However, you have to take into account the context in which those comments were made. He said it at a celebration for the 50th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education. He was commenting on how people back then fought so hard for good educations, but many of the youths today don't give a rats ass about any of that, they're too concerned with having snazzy sneakers, dope in their pockets, and ho's on the side. And, frankly, he has a pretty good point.

[dissention]

Indeed. Maybe Mr. Cosby should visit and see how it really is.

I suspect that his comments would be even more scathing. :nod:

[DownOnRodeo]

Methinks mecame in late. Me no worry.

In fact, me Jaja Binks! :laugh: Me go now.

[dissention]

Methinks mecame in late. Me no worry.

In fact, me Jaja Binks! :laugh: Me go now.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[golddustdragon]

Thanks for the info. John married a US citizen as did Mick, so I guess they would be citizens if they wanted. It's a pity McVie's a Republican. Come on John, they're evil. :lol: :lol: :lol:

John Mcvie's a Republican? Whoa, didn't know that. I hope he doesn't have any whacko religious views like so many Republican officeholders today.

[dissention]

John Mcvie's a Republican? Whoa, didn't know that. I hope he doesn't have any whacko religious views like so many Republican officeholders today.

"God is the glue that holds this band together. He is the cause of all these cycles we go through. He healed Stevie's hip, blessed Lindsey's out of tune guitars, gave me short shorts, and saved Mick from his ****ty land deals. In fact, Jesus Christ is our favorite philosopher."

:lol:

[SmthngOfADreamr]

I agree to a point. However, you have to take into account the context in which those comments were made. He said it at a celebration for the 50th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education. He was commenting on how people back then fought so hard for good educations, but many of the youths today don't give a rats ass about any of that, they're too concerned with having snazzy sneakers, dope in their pockets, and ho's on the side. And, frankly, he has a pretty good point.

He really does have a valid point, the only thing is, the blame does not lie fully on the students. I am a New York City Public School teacher, and I can tell you that the apathy that I have seen from 90% of my students' parents is heartbreaking. Many parents in our urban school district do not value education, and this unfortunatly trickles down to thier children. You can have the fanciest school buildings, all the supplies and resources you need, and the best teachers in the world, but if those who are being educated do not step up to the plate and do not receive support from home, it is all in vein.

[gldstwmn]

John Mcvie's a Republican? Whoa, didn't know that. I hope he doesn't have any whacko religious views like so many Republican officeholders today.

I'm willing to bet he's a fiscal conservative, not a wingnut. Anybody that supports Greenpeace can be too in tune with Bush either.

[gldstwmn]

"God is the glue that holds this band together. He is the cause of all these cycles we go through. He healed Stevie's hip, blessed Lindsey's out of tune guitars, gave me short shorts, and saved Mick from his ****ty land deals. In fact, Jesus Christ is our favorite philosopher."

:lol:

LMFAO! :lol:

[darklinensuit]

Maybe Bill Cosby can show them how to become comedians, make an insane amount of money with some bull****, feel-good mediocre sitcom, and collect the royalties for the rest of their lives.

Will they, then, be allowed to buy $150 sneakers without criticism?

Seems to me, multimillionaire Bill is criticizing the wrong people. But what do I know? :shrug:

A lot.
I thought I was the only one who disliked his sitcom.

- Jake

[HomerMcvie]

I am a New York City Public School teacher,
but if those who are being educated do not step up to the plate and do not receive support from home, it is all in vein.
VAIN! The alternative sounds messy.
Sorry, with you being a teacher, I couldn't resist the correction.

[CarneVaca]

And, frankly, he has a pretty good point.

No, he really doesn't. It's entirely too easy to dismiss those youths as bums and selfish, but for someone like Mr. Cosby, it would have made infinitely more sense if he discussed the root causes of that attitude in the youths, and how we should ago about addressing them. I daresay Mr. Cosby and his selling himself to corporate interests, Jello, for instance, is part of the problem. Nyet?

[CarneVaca]

He really does have a valid point, the only thing is, the blame does not lie fully on the students. I am a New York City Public School teacher, and I can tell you that the apathy that I have seen from 90% of my students' parents is heartbreaking. Many parents in our urban school district do not value education, and this unfortunatly trickles down to thier children. You can have the fanciest school buildings, all the supplies and resources you need, and the best teachers in the world, but if those who are being educated do not step up to the plate and do not receive support from home, it is all in vein.

What do you think causes the apathy among the parents?

[strandinthewind]

No, he really doesn't. It's entirely too easy to dismiss those youths as bums and selfish, but for someone like Mr. Cosby, it would have made infinitely more sense if he discussed the root causes of that attitude in the youths, and how we should ago about addressing them. I daresay Mr. Cosby and his selling himself to corporate interests, Jello, for instance, is part of the problem. Nyet?


Oh Come ON :laugh: This is just another example of everybody getting all up in arms about someone who is rich and successful saying what they see as a problem which clearly exists amongst the poor. All I can say is thank goodness Bill is African American because if a caucasian had made this statement, they would be immediately labeled a racist! I mean do you really think there are no parents who are apathetic and just bad parents without the influence of our allegedly oppressive society. Sorry for the rant, but I am just sick of the whole "society made me this way" schitck being placed on everyone. I mean sure it happens more than it should, the world is not a fair place, but clearly there are parents out there who have kids without any regard for how they are going to take care of them and they instead put themselves first or buy their kids fancy things they cannot afford instead of taking the time to educate them. I think that is what BC is talking about. I do not think he is saying all AA parents are that way, etc.

Personally, I think people ought to have to attend classes on how to raise children and put themselves second :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

From www.ajc.com:

His words sting because truth hurts

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/26/2004

Never mind Howard University.

The administration of the Washington institution is apparently in a bit of a huff because Bill Cosby used its podium to criticize the failings of black America -- especially its underclass. Howard's leaders, who won't release a transcript of Cosby's speech, are still not prepared to have a public discussion of self-inflicted wounds.

But much of black America, especially its middle class, is ready to have that conversation. In that sense, Cosby's speech was a watershed event -- a sign that black America is now comfortable enough with its accomplishments to discuss its shortcomings.

"Perhaps Bill did us a favor," says NAACP President Kweisi Mfume, who attended the ceremony, "and more people will now be prepared to step forward. It'll be a tough love conversation, whether or not people want to have it. And it will take opinion leaders to say those things that should be said."

Not all black Americans agree with the remarks Cosby made at a May 17 celebration of the 50th anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education decision. Indeed, his criticism of everything from speech patterns to spending habits among the black poor was pointedly politically incorrect.

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he said. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids -- $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics' " to improve their children's reading and speech.

Of the disproportionate number of blacks in prison, Cosby had this to say: "These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake, and then we run out and we are outraged, saying, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What in the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

After the speech, Theodore Shaw, head of the NAACP legal defense fund, rushed to the podium to serve up a rejoinder, noting that larger (read "white") American society still bears some responsibility for the failure of so many black Americans to join the economic and cultural mainstream. That is clearly so.

But isn't it about time that black Americans acknowledge that, at the dawn of the 21st century, personal responsibility has at least as much to do with success in America as race? Isn't it only fair to note that the landmark Supreme Court ruling of 50 years ago did roll back much of systemic racism? After all, if you believe that racism continues to largely limit black success, that will certainly prove itself true.

"There is no reason that black students have to do poorly in math and science, in speech, in cognitive abilities," Mfume said. "When you're quiet about those [shortcomings], young people notice, and it sounds like you're giving your approval."

Some blacks have recoiled from Cosby's pointed remarks, not because they disagree, but because they don't want to discuss certain ignominious truths in front of white folks. They fear such painful self-analysis will only provide fodder to the race-baiters -- the Neal Boortzes and Rush Limbaughs -- who work hard at stoking a white backlash.

I'm sure Boortz and Limbaugh have already made ample use of Cosby's speech to stir up the racist rants among a certain segment of their listeners. So what? They'd look for excuses to poke the tender wounds of race no matter what Cosby had said.

It is more important that black Americans have a spirited debate about the challenges of the post-civil rights era: How do we raise the academic achievement of black students? How do we curb black-on-black crime? How do we attack an AIDS epidemic spreading like wildfire in black America?

In a way, Cosby's speech was an eloquent reminder of the stunning success of the civil rights movement that followed the Brown decision: Black America is strong enough and successful enough to admit its shortcomings and gird itself for the work ahead.

[CarneVaca]

Pleeease, Jason. Let's not gang up on inner-city youth and their parents without at least trying to understand that there are socio-economic roots to their problems. The longer we continue to deny these root causes, the longer the problem will persist. Unfortunately, I fear that's forever.

Having been in contact with inner-city problems, I see that there are some situations so hopeless, so hard to imagine that it is quite difficult for anyone outside of the situation to understand that the problem is not a matter of choice. It is hard for folks to understand that an inner-city teenager completely lacking in hope for the future does not make that choice of hopelessness intentionally. Drugs and gangs prey on these vulnerabilities. Just imagine in today's world what other dangerous prospects might start preying on them too. Frankly, I shudder to think of some of the dire prospects.

Our insistence on denying these problems, our penchant for debating them ad nauseum as if they were some exercise in rhetorical prowess, may yet come back to bite us in far more grotesque ways than we have so far allowed ourselves to consider.

[strandinthewind]

It is not just inner city youth. There are parts of rural America where home schooling is just a facade for "get out and work with your father in the fields." Again, I am not saying that society has no effect on the ability to create and stifle ave. for learning, etc. Clearly it does. As I alluded to earlier, I have seen it first hand when I tutored in New Orleans. All I am saying is many (in my case the majority) can and do rise above that. I think some and certainly not all of the ones that do not rise above are just lazy and self-centered - and it disgusts me that they then assert "I am a victim of society" when called on it - of course the problem is everyone on the outside if you will lumps all parents into the latter category. Interestingly, there is a whole almost Darwinian theme to it and that scares me as it apparently scares you as well.

Interestingly, Jesse Jackson for years has been espousing this or a very similar theory.

[CarneVaca]

Interestingly, there is a whole almost Darwinian theme to it and that scares me as it apparently scares you as well.

Yes. Let me oversimplify how I see this whole problem:

Those with the power and the money keep everybody else down.
Those somewhere in the middle take what they can get and cheat themselves into believing they're doing great. Unfortunately they contribute to the problem because they are buying what those with the power and the money are selling them, philosophically and materially.
Those at the very bottom know they're being screwed but they don't see a way out. Hopelessness lashes out in some very negative ways -- drugs, crime, etc.

It's up to the ones in the middle to force change. That doesn't happen until enough of the ones in the middle get pushed down.

Read up on the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s in China for a pretty good illustration of what I'm talking about.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

VAIN! The alternative sounds messy.
Sorry, with you being a teacher, I couldn't resist the correction.

LMAO I'm a MATH teacher!!!
:laugh:

[SmthngOfADreamr]

What do you think causes the apathy among the parents?

I really wish I knew the answer to this one. If I had to guess, I'd say that the problem lies beyond the schools for them. It's probably hard for some of the parents to see the value of education when they themselves are stuck in deplorable conditions, bad jobs, etc. despite the fact that they graduated from high school in most cases. I'd really like to get down to the bottom of it though.