Beheading Video - for use in high schools? [Archive]

View Full Version : Beheading Video - for use in high schools?

Mad4stevie

05-19-2004, 08:15 PM

greatdarkwing

05-19-2004, 08:38 PM

NO ONE should have to watch this. I made the mistake of seeing Danny Pearl's video last year, and have since been warning people not to see that or this (I have not and will not see it).

~Alex

Mad4stevie

05-19-2004, 08:56 PM

NO ONE should have to watch this. I made the mistake of seeing Danny Pearl's video last year, and have since been warning people not to see that or this (I have not and will not see it).

~Alex

Yeah - I saw the Pearl video too, but this one was much worse . . .

greatdarkwing

05-19-2004, 08:57 PM

Yeah - I saw the Pearl video too, but this one was much worse . . .

Thank God I havent seen this one. These types of things just infuriate me.

~Alex

wondergirl9847

05-19-2004, 09:12 PM

I saw a scene from a movie the other day on TV and it disturbed me for most of the day......I can't even IMAGINE watching THAT video. :distress:

jwd

05-19-2004, 09:25 PM

If it was my kid that was subjected to that, I'd want that teacher's head, pun intended!

ShangriLaTroubl

05-19-2004, 09:27 PM

I too made the mistake of watching this horrific and disgusting video online...It was literally the worst thing I have ever seen...I was speechless for hours...and I still feel uneasy thinking about it...

It was just absolutely horrible.
I don't think anyone should be forced to watch it...but IMO if the teacher merely gave out the URL and the students CHOSE to watch it on their on free time, the teacher really shouldn't be at fault...

Chris

Mad4stevie

05-19-2004, 09:33 PM

I can't imagine what family members must feel about it . . . or if they would ever watch it in a million years . . .

I don't think I would want to watch it if it were a loved one of mine, but then again, sometimes your imagination is worse than reality (although not in this case, IMO).

ShangriLaTroubl

05-19-2004, 09:37 PM

I don't think I would want to watch it if it were a loved one of mine, but then again, sometimes your imagination is worse than reality (although not in this case, IMO).

You are right...definetely not in this case..I thought that the way I had imagined it would probably look worse than the actual video--but no way in hell did I ever imagine it to be like that...I really thought it would be a quick death, and don't know why I chose to watch it in the first place... but instead it was painful and excruciating death...the death of an innocent man who struggled, literally, for his life

Chris

Mad4stevie

05-19-2004, 09:56 PM

You are right...definetely not in this case..I thought that the way I had imagined it would probably look worse than the actual video--but no way in hell did I ever imagine it to be like that...I really thought it would be a quick death, and don't know why I chose to watch it in the first place... but instead it was painful and excruciating death...the death of an innocent man who struggled, literally, for his life

Chris

Exactly. For me, I guess I think of a "beheading" as something done quickly.

What really, really freaked me out was all that chanting while they were, literally, sawing his head off. It was something that made me naseous and made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Pure evil, IMO.

dissention

05-19-2004, 10:20 PM

I was wondering what opinion everyone here had about those teachers who got suspended for their advocacy of watching the beheading video of Nick Berg in Iraq.

I made the mistake of watching the video online, and it sickened me to the point that I could't eat dinner that night. Horrible, awful and disgusting. I don't know what I expected . . . but it was much, much more graphic and disturbing than I anticipated. I guess I think of a beheading as something that is quick and less painful than what I witnessed on this video.

Anyway - I think it is different for a teacher to mention a site where the video is and the person watches it on their own time. However, I do not think any student should be obligated to watch such a video for class.

Your thoughts??

I think that the teachers should've sent out permission slips and made it an optional experience. However, I fail to really see the educational value in simply watching this tape. You can't just show it to a group of kids and ask "So, what did you think?" You have to put it into context and make sure the kids really know their stuff about this occupation. BUT - what was the assignment? No one's talking.

And if you want to read some heated debates about the Berg video got to the last five or six pages in the "Open Leter to Dubya" thread. It got rather heated and should make for some interesting reading. I will say one thing, though, and that is that those were not al-Qaeda men and it most definitely wasn't Zarqawi. And he was dead when they beheaded him.

strandinthewind

05-19-2004, 10:33 PM

. . . I will say one thing, though, and that is that those were not al-Qaeda men and it most definitely wasn't Zarqawi.

FOUL :wavey:

I think that is speculation based on what I think are loose conclusions (the color of the hands, the wedding ring, etc.). I mean I think it is hard to determine alot from that grainy video. But, that is my opinion and hopefully, we will one day know exactly who it was when they hopefully dcatch these people!!!! :cool:

dissention

05-19-2004, 11:01 PM

FOUL :wavey:

I think that is speculation based on what I think are loose conclusions (the color of the hands, the wedding ring, etc.). I mean I think it is hard to determine alot from that grainy video. But, that is my opinion and hopefully, we will one day know exactly who it was when they hopefully dcatch these people!!!! :cool:

You seem to be forgetting that Zarqawi was bombed out of his boots almost a year ago. They bombed him and he couldn't get out because his fake leg was off.

In any case, the whole video is fishy, we've agreed on that much. :laugh: It's even fishier considering he was detained by US forces for weeks, he worked at Abu Ghairib, he was wearing a US issued detainee jumpsuit in the video, and they mysteriously identified his body without the head (and he was a civilian, not military) two days before the killers posted the video. And the fact that the CIA and FBI went to the home of his family a few weeks before his murder and hounded them about Nick Berg makes me very uneasy. AND - the icing on the cake, US forces lied through their teeth and said that they never detained Berg, the Iraqi police did. For some reason, the Iraqi police say they never had contact wth him and Berg's family has emails from the CIA and the Pentagon saying that he was being held by US forces. And the biggest shocker is his tie to Moussaoui. That **** freaked me out.

Nothing adds up and it's all getting swept under the rug. We need to know the truth.

dissention

05-19-2004, 11:06 PM

What really, really freaked me out was all that chanting while they were, literally, sawing his head off. It was something that made me naseous and made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Pure evil, IMO.

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/article.php?id=2785

"The experts who saw the video say that the man posing as Jordanian native Zarqawi does not speak the Jordanian dialect. Zarqawi has an artificial leg, but none of these murderers did. The man presented as Zarqawi had a yellow ring, presumably a golden one, which Muslim men are banned from wearing, especially so-called fundamentalists."

Jessica Leigh

05-20-2004, 01:14 AM

oh my goodness.... i accidently watched it... somene sent me a link to the video on consumption junction... and I, thinking that stuff on CJ is normally funny, clicked on it...

now i am all consumed by this... i read that article you posted dissention... it's way freaky... nothing adds up... there seem to be so many questions...

what was Nick Berg doing over there? i read that he owned some sort of company that has to do with radio towers or something? and he was there looking for work? and he was supposedly detained for having isreali stamps in his passport? he emailed saying he was detained by americans? but they deny it and say it was iraqis? ...but iraqis deny ever having contact with him? one thing i do trust about Iraqis is that they happily take full credit for the evil things they do... and they are condemning this?

GardenStateGirlie

05-20-2004, 01:56 AM

what was Nick Berg doing over there? i read that he owned some sort of company that has to do with radio towers or something? and he was there looking for work? and he was supposedly detained for having isreali stamps in his passport? he emailed saying he was detained by americans? but they deny it and say it was iraqis? ...but iraqis deny ever having contact with him? one thing i do trust about Iraqis is that they happily take full credit for the evil things they do... and they are condemning this?

Jess, Nick was from West Chester, PA...not too far from here. Yes, he was over there looking for work in radio transmitting (if memory serves) and he had been detained. Shortly thereafter, his family received an e-mail saying that we had him and that he was safe and in good hands but that he needed to stay. I don't know that the public will obtain the answers anytime in the immediate future. His family deserves them more than we do...especially since they were the people who were e-mailed thinking that he was safe.

Jessica Leigh

05-20-2004, 02:02 AM

Jess, Nick was from West Chester, PA...not too far from here. Yes, he was over there looking for work in radio transmitting (if memory serves) and he had been detained. Shortly thereafter, his family received an e-mail saying that we had him and that he was safe and in good hands but that he needed to stay. I don't know that the public will obtain the answers anytime in the immediate future. His family deserves them more than we do...especially since they were the people who were e-mailed thinking that he was safe.

and if he was safe why was he wearing a US issued prisoner's jumpsuit? and if he was just there as a civilian by himself... why would the FBI be all into it? was he up to no good? or is the US just a bunch of f*cktards?

edit: sorry i'm rambling off these questions.... i'm totally into this now... i try to not get into these kinds of things.. but once i hear one bit of info i am completely consumed... sick to my stomach...

Hippocampus

05-20-2004, 06:23 AM

I was wondering what opinion everyone here had about those teachers who got suspended for their advocacy of watching the beheading video of Nick Berg in Iraq.

Well I would go further than suspension but thankfully for them my opinion doesn't matter. If people only understood that distributing and watching this horror only encourages more atrocity. With all the free publicity these murderers are getting on the pretense of informing the masses, it's only a matter of time before another video comes our way.

Watching this video isn't informative in any way, it's pure voyeurism. It's bad enough having a description of what happened but now we get to watch it too. If only people weren't damn ghouls.

darklinensuit

05-20-2004, 08:53 AM

Jess, Nick was from West Chester, PA...not too far from here.

My family is close to WC & I have friends there. I hear it's been big news in Philly & the Jewish community.

- Jake

CarneVaca

05-20-2004, 10:04 AM

Context. If students were asked or instructed to watch this, it should be done in context as a group with someone explaining the point of watching this video in the first place. With the parents' consent. Once you bring the issue of context into this discussion, the question that begs an answer is, Is there a point to watching this video? I would say yes. But if the intended viewers are young students, I would say I'm not sure.

I remember a lot of controversy when Schindler's List came out. A lot of school districts got themselves in hot water for sending entire classes to see the movie.

There is a natural inclination on the part of parents to want to shield their children from the horrors of the world. This is perfectly understandable. For instance, my wife and I no longer watch the news in front of our 16-month-old. Some of the images are too disturbing, and while I am not convinced that watching these will give the child some emotional problem or other that may not manifest itself until later, I am not willing to take the risk.

I guess ultimately I am not sure where I sit on this. If I had a teenage child and I decided that she/he should see this, I would want to be there and explain the situation and try to also explain that human beings do bad things. To one another.

I haven't watched the video, and I don't plan to. As a former reporter, I've seen enough real-life gore. But part of me says we should probably all see it.

dissention

05-20-2004, 10:22 AM

and if he was safe why was he wearing a US issued prisoner's jumpsuit? and if he was just there as a civilian by himself... why would the FBI be all into it? was he up to no good? or is the US just a bunch of f*cktards?

edit: sorry i'm rambling off these questions.... i'm totally into this now... i try to not get into these kinds of things.. but once i hear one bit of info i am completely consumed... sick to my stomach...

Not just the FBI, the CIA was involved, too. Let's look at the facts:

-He had only a little bit of work in Iraq, then left once he couldn't find any. He returned a month later and still couldn't find any; he hadn't worked at all when he went back for a second time.

-US forces had him in custody for weeks, blamed it on the Iraqi police (which is run by US forces), then it was proven to be a lie.

-CIA and FBI agents went to the Berg household and grilled them incessantly about their son.

-Back in '01, Nick Berg's computer passwords at his college were used by Moussaoui, one of the hijackers on 9/11. A coincidence my ass.

-Berg had Iraqi relatives who lived in Iraq.

-He was wearing a US-issue prison jumpsuit in the awful video. This video is a weeks after his release from a US detention center.

-There was a gap of eleven hours from the opening statements in the video to the time when he was "killed."

-The hands of the killers are white, they are all quite chubby, and Zarqawi is supposedly wearing a gold wedding ring that he is forbidden to wear. They are also wearing tennis shoes.

-They say it's Zarqawi in the video, but he wears a fake leg (if he's even alive).

-The audio on the video is completely out of sync with what is going on, which means the screams could've been manipulated.

-Experts have said that the language the killers are speaking is pretty bad and not consistent witht he dialect they should be speaking.

-One of the killers seems VERY nervous and moves around a lot.

-Berg is not struggling in the video.

-There's not much blood spurting out and there would be LOTS of it if they cut his head while he was alive. Every human has a jugular, after all. He would also be convulsing violently.

-His body was somehow identified two full days before the US had even seen the video, and it was identified while the head was missing. And, keep in mind, he was just a civilain.

-The US claims to have offered him a plane home but they say he refused it. Two days later, he sent an email to his fmaily saying that he wanted to come home ASAP, but he would have to sneak through Turkey to do so. Why would he have to sneak out of the country if the US offered him a plane home?

Plus much, much more. It's all just mind-boggling. :(

gldstwmn

05-20-2004, 11:11 AM

And the biggest shocker is his tie to Moussaoui. That **** freaked me out.

Nothing adds up and it's all getting swept under the rug. We need to know the truth.

Yup. Raise your hand if you've ever ridden the bus to school with a terrorist and then let them use your computer.

wondergirl9847

05-20-2004, 11:42 AM

Yup. Raise your hand if you've ever ridden the bus to school with a terrorist and then let them use your computer.

I TOLD you to keep that to yourself!! Geez, I cannot trust you Ledgies with ANY information. It was ONE time, he needed to check his email.

gldstwmn

05-20-2004, 01:06 PM

I TOLD you to keep that to yourself!! Geez, I cannot trust you Ledgies with ANY information. It was ONE time, he needed to check his email.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Jessica Leigh

05-21-2004, 04:57 AM

I TOLD you to keep that to yourself!! Geez, I cannot trust you Ledgies with ANY information. It was ONE time, he needed to check his email.

lol Thanks Christy... i needed a laugh after reading all of this heavy information...

Wow dissention that is all too much... i knew most of what you posted already... but must have missed the part about his ties to Moussaoui... do you mean they just used the same passwords for their own respective computers and emails? or were they into each others?

dissention

05-21-2004, 09:48 AM

Wow dissention that is all too much... i knew most of what you posted already... but must have missed the part about his ties to Moussaoui... do you mean they just used the same passwords for their own respective computers and emails? or were they into each others?

To my knowledge, the students had their own personal passwords for when they used school computers. Moussaoui used Berg's passwords to use the computers. That's really all I know, but what a coincidence, eh? :cool:

gldstwmn

05-21-2004, 05:26 PM

dissention

05-21-2004, 07:18 PM

This could be total b.s. but if it isn't someone's going to have some splainin' to do:

http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=&action=m&board=37138445&tid=apprisonerabusephotos&sid=37138445&mid=12296

NEWS- Berg & Abu VidCamera is SAME
by: mfc1212 (M/Rochester NY) 05/21/04 03:15 pm
Msg: 12296 of 15280
23 recommendations

one as Prison abuse was used. Word is spreading around Kodak Park here in Rochester NY. And will break on national News tonite that Kodak film experts have analyzed the Nick Berg video and some of the Abu Grhaib Prison videos comparing them for certain encrypted recording signatures.
Each Video camera leaves a certain signature mark, much like a fingerprint or striation markings on bullets in gun barrels. Same goes for CD-ROM Burners, they leave a trace or type of Cookies on the finished product.
These are tested by computer and not visible by the nekkid eye. Experts here after lunch have concluded that one of the 2 video cameras used in the Nick Berg "beheading" was also used to film US troop abuses of Iraqi detainees.
THIS is BAD news for BushCorp., Military, and CIA. .

Yeah, there's a thread about it on the DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1642371

I fthis can be proven, it'll certainly explain a helluva lot.

Also, read this, it's by Nick Berg's father....very heartbreaking:

George Bush Never Looked into Nick's Eyes

by Michael Berg

My son, Nick, was my teacher and my hero. He was the kindest, gentlest man I know; no, the kindest, gentlest human being I have ever known. He quit the Boy Scouts of America because they wanted to teach him to fire a handgun. Nick, too, poured into me the strength I needed, and still need, to tell the world about him.

People ask me why I focus on putting the blame for my son's tragic and atrocious end on the Bush administration. They ask: "Don't you blame the five men who killed him?" I have answered that I blame them no more or less than the Bush administration, but I am wrong: I am sure, knowing my son, that somewhere during their association with him these men became aware of what an extraordinary man my son was. I take comfort that when they did the awful thing they did, they weren't quite as in to it as they might have been. I am sure that they came to admire him.

I am sure that the one who wielded the knife felt Nick's breath on his hand and knew that he had a real human being there. I am sure that the others looked into my son's eyes and got at least a glimmer of what the rest of the world sees. And I am sure that these murderers, for just a brief moment, did not like what they were doing.

George Bush never looked into my son's eyes. George Bush doesn't know my son, and he is the worse for it. George Bush, though a father himself, cannot feel my pain, or that of my family, or of the world that grieves for Nick, because he is a policymaker, and he doesn't have to bear the consequences of his acts. George Bush can see neither the heart of Nick nor that of the American people, let alone that of the Iraqi people his policies are killing daily.

Donald Rumsfeld said that he took responsibility for the sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners. How could he take that responsibility when there was no consequence? Nick took the consequences.

Even more than those murderers who took my son's life, I can't stand those who sit and make policies to end lives and break the lives of the still living.

Nick was not in the military, but he had the discipline and dedication of a soldier. Nick Berg was in Iraq to help the people without any expectation of personal gain. He was only one man, but through his death he has become many. The truly unselfish spirit of giving your all to do what you know in your own heart is right even when you know it may be dangerous; this spirit has spread among the people who knew Nick, and that group has spread and is spreading all over the world.

So what were we to do when we in America were attacked on September 11, that infamous day? I say we should have done then what we never did before: stop speaking to the people we labeled our enemies and start listening to them. Stop giving preconditions to our peaceful coexistence on this small planet, and start honoring and respecting every human's need to live free and autonomously, to truly respect the sovereignty of every state. To stop making up rules by which others must live and then separate rules for ourselves.

George Bush's ineffective leadership is a weapon of mass destruction, and it has allowed a chain reaction of events that led to the unlawful detention of my son which immersed him in a world of escalated violence. Were it not for Nick's detention, I would have had him in my arms again. That detention held him in Iraq not only until the atrocities that led to the siege of Fallujah, but also the revelation of the atrocities committed in the jails in Iraq, in retaliation for which my son's wonderful life was put to an end.

My son's work still goes on. Where there was one peacemaker before, I now see and have heard from thousands of peacemakers. Nick was a man who acted on his beliefs. We, the people of this world, now need to act on our beliefs. We need to let the evildoers on both sides of the Atlantic know that we are fed up with war. We are fed up with the killing and bombing and maiming of innocent people. We are fed up with the lies. Yes, we are fed up with the suicide bombers, and with the failure of the Israelis and Palestinians to find a way to stop killing each other. We are fed up with negotiations and peace conferences that are entered into on both sides with preset conditions that preclude the outcome of peace. We want world peace now.

Many have offered to pray for Nick and my family. I appreciate their thoughts, but I ask them to include in their prayers a prayer for peace. And I ask them to do more than pray. I ask them to demand peace now.

--Michael Berg is the father of Nick Berg, the US contractor beheaded on video in Iraq this month by a group believed to be linked to al-Qaida. This is an extract from his message of support for the 'Stop The War Coalition's demonstration, End the Torture - Bring the Troops Home Now', which will be held at 11am tomorrow at the Embankment in London

darklinensuit

05-23-2004, 09:28 PM

He quit the Boy Scouts of America because they wanted to teach him to fire a handgun.

:shocked:

- Jake

GardenStateGirlie

05-23-2004, 10:07 PM

My family is close to WC & I have friends there. I hear it's been big news in Philly & the Jewish community.

- Jake

It has been and will most likely continue to be on the local news here for quite some time.

darklinensuit

05-24-2004, 08:22 AM

It has been and will most likely continue to be on the local news here for quite some time.

My parents love to call me with these horror stories, like that couple honeymooning in Atlantic City who called the front desk to complain of the smell for a few days, & it turned out there was a body stuffed under the mattress. :shocked:

- Jake

littlelies7

05-25-2004, 09:25 PM

That's wrong to show it. It's disgraceful for the family and of course, the victim himself, God rest his soul.

Just disgusting. :distress:

dissention

05-26-2004, 08:53 AM

That's wrong to show it. It's disgraceful for the family and of course, the victim himself, God rest his soul.

Just disgusting. :distress:

What's disgusting and disgraceful is the press printing and taking pictures of Berg's family while they collapse on their lawn after seeing the headline of their sons death on the front page of the daily newspaper. That's disgraceful, disrespectful, and abhorrent. They should all be ashamed of themselves.

CarneVaca

05-26-2004, 09:38 AM

What's disgusting and disgraceful is the press printing and taking pictures of Berg's family while they collapse on their lawn after seeing the headline of their sons death on the front page of the daily newspaper. That's disgraceful, disrespectful, and abhorrent. They should all be ashamed of themselves.

Aw, come on! As if the masses aren't chomping at the bit to consume this stuff. Look at the people here who chose to go watch the video.

You're just blaming the messenger.