Anyone else not care for Lindsey's Tusk stuff?

[diamondsnake]

Aside from the title track and the Ledge, I just don't care for Lindsey's stuff on Tusk. Christine's and Stevie's stuff is amazing and beautiful, but Lindsey's stuff is always skipped over on this album. I don't like it one bit, not one bit! However, it seems like most people on this board are in love with everything Lindsey does (Lindsey obviously gets more praise then Stevie on this board), so is there anyone else that shares these feelings about his stuff on tusk? The songs just leave me cold and are weird and silly. :blob2:

[DownOnRodeo]

The songs just leave me cold and are weird and silly.

Wow, I've never thought of it like that. I guess they do suck!

Lindsey obviously gets more praise then Stevie on this board

Are you keeping track? Because even if there was a way of quanitifying this, I don't think you're right.

Also, just in terms of your whole topic.. 'Lindsey's Tusk stuff' is Tusk. He produced, arranged, played that album. I'm sure that Storms would have been fantastic if the Bella Donna guy had produced it but... um, no thanks.

[hayley]

Aside from the title track and the Ledge, I just don't care for Lindsey's stuff on Tusk. Christine's and Stevie's stuff is amazing and beautiful, but Lindsey's stuff is always skipped over on this album. I don't like it one bit, not one bit! However, it seems like most people on this board are in love with everything Lindsey does (Lindsey obviously gets more praise then Stevie on this board), so is there anyone else that shares these feelings about his stuff on tusk? The songs just leave me cold and are weird and silly. :blob2:


Again, you'll grow up.

They may not be your cup of tea- but they are amazing songs.

Most people on this board aren't in love with everything Lindsey does- personally, I poop on Out of the Cradle. (/Triumph the insult comic dog)

[Mari]

I'll admit I had to get used to it. But that's usually the really good music, the things I don't instantly like but need to hear more than once, and then like so much more than anything.
Sorry, I'm a big fan of Lindsey's Tusk-music.

[dissention]

I love Lindsey's Tusk stuff, it's Chris' material that leaves me cold. It's just dull.

Save Me A Place and The Ledge are two of Lindsey's best songs.

[dontlookdown]

i think Lindsey's Tusk songs are brilliant. This record is the album that made me an obsessed FM fan. I thought it was daring, brave, smart, funny, beautiful, challenging, and most importantly - it has stood the test of time better than every other FM album. The reason is because of Lindsey's songs and his production on the rest of the album.

Tusk is one of the best records made - right up there with Revolver and Pet Sounds. If you don't "get" Lindsey's Tusk work, you don't "get" Fleetwood Mac.

Just my opinion - but I think there are two kinds of fans - those that dig the top 40 pop stuff - and those that "get" Lindsey's art.

[strandinthewind]

I like if not love Tusk. It was a turning point for a variety of reasons with mainstream burnout probably being the most significant. I do not like all of LB's songs - they are just too out there for me. Good examples of this are NTF and The Ledge. I think these two are brilliant in concept, but are just too confused in what they want to be. But, I do get what he was going for and think others like Save Me a Place, Tusk, and Walk a Thin Line are gorgeous. I think listening to his stuff on Tusk is like watching the first hints of his new genius and the change from the 70's guitar god stance strongly reflected in his personal demeanor and dress and in the brilliant GYOW and ISA. SYW is a good example of that genius evolved. Songs like Red Rover, Murrow, and Miranda are brilliantly quirky and are more focused and polished than some of the things on Tusk.

Interstingly and risking the wrath of the Buckinghamists on the board, I think Tusk was Stevie's moment. Her songs are brilliant, melodic, and carefully crafted, with many kudos to LB for that, and eclipse all other songs on the record.

[wondergirl9847]

I wasn't going to respond because this thread is a heated argument waiting to happen. LOL

Lindsey's songs on Tusk are emotional yet quirky, IMO.

The Ledge - It's like "OOMPAH!" LOL!! It's a fun, yet angry song. "Buy another fixture, tell another lie, paint another picture, see who's surprised" is basically saying to Stevie, "You're predictable and you're a liar." EEK!

SMAP - He's calling out to be loved here!! Emotions on the sleeve! He wants to be loved and wanted. "I'll come runnin', if you love me today."

WMYTYTO - Has that driving force. Angry again! LOL What makes you think you're the one? Why do you think I'm gonna be there when you want me to be. PFFTT!! Kiss off!! LOL He's telling her she's predictable again in "Everything you do has been done."

That's All for Everyone - This is his Souldrifter of Tusk. He wants to leave. He's had enough. "I can't stay I can't deceive" means he doesn't wanna make another Rumours. That would be deceitful to his nature as he wants to break out of that. It's got a tropical feel to it meaning "I need a getaway!!!!"

Not That Funny - Anger again!! He goes back and forth between hurting and being angry. This is the Come of Tusk. "It's not that funny is it? Don't blame me!" is saying, "You can't find anyone like me!" "You're hear cuz I say so." we all know is the story that he told Mick in that if you want me in the group, Stevie comes too. Turnaround. OUCH!! LOL This song sounds like a carnival to me.

That's Enough For Me - Hurting. "It's the same old pain that it used to be." He doesn't wanna hurt anymore. That's enough!! "Every night that sleep don't come..." Perhaps, they argued and that's why he can't sleep. This is showing how difficult it was for them to be in the same group after the breakup. I love you....no, I HATE you....wait, I love you.....NOPE, I HATE YOU!!!! LOL

IKINW - EGO! LOL Here is the "Don't blame me" line again like in NTF. I'm not the one who screwed this relationship, YOU ARE!! He thinks it's all her fault for their breakup. She wanted out, so don't come a'runnin' to me for comfort when you are hurt. "The dreams of a lifetime" is about Buckingham Nicks and the dream of them being a duo, forever making music together. :)

Walk a Thin Line - No one listens to Lindsey. Maybe nobody cared about how much he hurt after the breakup? Perhaps they were all "Poor Stevie" or something? :shrug: "I said 'Stay by my side' but no one said nothin' I walk a thin line."

Tusk - Most angry line..."Why don't you ask him who's the latest on his throne?" Ooh. :shocked: I am king of this castle, honey! LOL He wants to know about Mick and Stevie. Why they are sneaking around.

Rumours was basically yearning in the breakup, this is "SCREW YOU!" :laugh:

Lemme add that I agree with strand, Tusk is Stevie's shining moment. Beautiful Child alone is MINDBLOWING!

[CarneVaca]

The songs just leave me cold and are weird and silly. :blob2:

Let us know what else leaves you cold because it's weird and silly. Maybe we can pass a law against weird and silly. That way you'll stay warm. Nyet? :p

[CarneVaca]

I love Lindsey's Tusk stuff, it's Chris' material that leaves me cold. It's just dull.

Save Me A Place and The Ledge are two of Lindsey's best songs.

Orpheus bless you, child. No truer words have ever come out of your keyboard. :thumbsup:

[John Run]

You know Diamondsnake may be the most provactive of anyone on this board.....Each day he posts a new thread. The title is often a question to all ledgies. The post itself can at times be filled with statements written in the manner and innocence of a 15 year old, but man they sure do get this board jumping. I am not even going to get into the issues of taste and perception vs fact that he often blurs....So yeah, as Hayley says someday he may become more mature, but until then he will surely continue to drive the discourse on this board.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I used to feel that way about Lindsey's Tusk songs, but I finally decided to give it more of a chance ---especially since the reissues were released.. Some of the songs are not songs I would listen to on an every day basis, but for me they really do represent like someone said a shift in music, and really like a leaving of the 1970s...

I don't know how to explain it, but I do think if Lindsey's songs on TUSK had been like his songs on Rumours (Which i love), that Fleetwood Mac would not have had the career they had...Tusk keep Fleetwood Mac fresh and new, and let the world know, whether they liked it or not, that Fleetwood Mac was not just a hit making machine..which gave them a lot of validity

Chris

[jbrownsjr]

I like LB's songs on this album. Especially the ledge! However, these are far from sophisticated. There's usually 2 chords over and over again and a third chord thrown in later. If he wasn't a genius with the guitar, I would go crazy listening to some of his stuff.

And that's not to pick on him. All 3 writers don't use many chords. For instance Angel I think is D, C, G - D, C, G repeat and rinse! :lol:

The thing about FM is that they can make a 3 chord song song sound beautiful, experimental and they blend well (for having 3 different voices).

To me if you say I like LB more than CM, you're saying I like Blue better than Red. etc. it's a matter of taste :nod:

[shackin'up]

The funny thing is...

.....this thread is a question:

Anyone else not care for Lindsey's Tusk stuff?

Nobody in the thread was asked to answer. If I read a question like that, it's simply not directed at me. So I read those threads, but normally don't get involved.

If you're a pure pop/easy listening lover I understand that you don't like his stuff on Tusk.

So I'll repeat the question:

IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE WHO HAS THE GUTS NOT LIKING LINDSEY'S STUFF ON TUSK?


I wonder if there will be sound or silence now......


gerald

[Mari]

...


:laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

:shocked: ! !

[Mari]

:confused:

[Johnny Stew]

When I first heard 'Tusk,' I didn't know if I loved Lindsey's stuff or hated it.
I was leaning more towards the latter, I have to admit.

But the more I listened, the more the songs grew on me, and I have to say that I found the quirkiness and robust spirit contained within most of his songs, to be totally compelling.

"The Ledge," "I Know I'm Not Wrong," "That's All For Everyone," "That's Enough For Me," "Tusk," "Walk A Thin Line," and "What Makes You Think You're The One," are all favorites (most especially the first three that I noted).
"Not That Funny" is cool too, and I'm actually one of those rare birds who prefers the album version to the live versions.

The only "clunker," in my very humble opinion, is "Save Me A Place."
Which I know has a pretty decent-sized following around these parts, but to me, it still sounds like the aural equivalent of sludge. :shrug:

Christopher... try listening to the album with this running order, and perhaps you'll enjoy Lindsey's material more....


Tusk
Think About Me
Angel
Save Me A Place
Over & Over
That's All For Everyone
Storms
Not That Funny
Brown Eyes
The Ledge
Sara
That's Enough For Me
Honey Hi
Walk A Thin Line
Sisters Of The Moon
What Makes You Think You're The One
Never Make Me Cry
I Know I'm Not Wrong
Beautiful Child
Never Forget

[wondergirl9847]

I admit. Tusk took some getting used to. In fact, when I was just getting into FM back in 2001, I read so many bad posts about Tusk that I was scared to get it. :laugh:

I also hated Time Bomb Town back in 1985 when I brought the record home from Sound Warehouse (dang, I miss that store). His voice and singing was so herky jerky. Today, it's one of my favorite LB songs!

I think that's why Lindsey doesn't have a gigantic Stevie-esqe following. Because it takes patience and people just don't have that these days. :shrug:

[Mari]

There will always be people who appreciate good music :)
but it'll be three hundred thousand rather than three million ;)

[CarneVaca]

There will always be people who appreciate good music :)
but it'll be three hundred thousand rather than three million ;)


Good music is not for everyone. And I like it that way.

[Johnny Stew]

I think that's why Lindsey doesn't have a gigantic Stevie-esqe following. Because it takes patience and people just don't have that these days. :shrug:I think both Lindsey & Stevie require a special kind of audience to truly appreciate their stuff.

Certainly it's easy to love stuff like "Go Your Own Way," and "Landslide," for example, but there's absolutely no way that every listener will appreciate something like "The Ledge" or even "Beautiful Child."
And then when you get into their respective solo careers, it becomes harder and harder for the casual listener to enjoy every track.

With Lindsey's odd phrasings, and quirky productions, and Stevie's fey lyrics and nasally voice, they're never going to be everyone's cup of tea.
Which is kind of why it's sad that we always have warring factions on these boards, when it really should be all of us against the rest of the world. After all, we're the smart ones! ;) :nod:

[cliffdweller]

Tusk is a brilliant album with brilliant songs from all three songwriters. And also to add "I Know I'm Not Wrong" is greatness. I absolutely love this song, and I'm totally digging the "alternate" version on the Tusk re-issue (the third version on there). It's becoming one of my all time favorite Lindsey songs.

[Johnny Stew]

Good music is not for everyone. And I like it that way.I was always very proud that I was the only person my age in high school, who was a major Mac fan. Felt like I knew something everyone else didn't. :nod:

I think the best artists are the ones who walk that thin line between the esoteric and the universal.
Stevie and Lindsey are both pretty good at that, but obviously neither succeeds every time. :)

[Hawkeye]

I LOVE Lindsey's Tusk songs. But that was not always the case. In act I remeber like my 2nd post ever here at the ledge was a very un nice post about how Stevie has been horribly neglected and in there was something saying her songs are the only thing worth listening to on Tusk :shocked: Well alot changes in 3 years I'll tell you. In fact I'll tell you everyting :laugh: Now I love ALL of Tusk. Stevie's songs, Lindsey's Songs, Chirtines songs (over and Over and Brown Eyes are absolutely 2 of her all time bests)

But on the topic of Lindsey's songs. I know I'm not breaking new ground here but my favorite song of his is from Tusk, Tusk. My other 2 favorites are WMYTYTO an amazing song when you're mad at anything and IKINW which used to be dead last on my favorite Lindssey songs from ANY album. That song has to be the biggest grower ever. The Ledge and Not That Funny are excellent. NTF is another great angry song. the only Lindsey song I dislike from Tusk is Save Me a Place, which is one of the worst songs ever by Lindsey or the band. I'm not a big Walk a Thin Line fan either.

[shackin'up]

Tusk is a brilliant album with brilliant songs from all three songwriters. And also to add "I Know I'm Not Wrong" is greatness. I absolutely love this song, and I'm totally digging the "alternate" version on the Tusk re-issue (the third version on there). It's becoming one of my all time favorite Lindsey songs.


:blob2: :blob2: :blob2: :] :] :] :blob2: :blob2:

counting on my fingers counting on my toes. the hurd is growing!!!! :eek: ;)

[strandinthewind]

I was always very proud that I was the only person my age in high school, who was a major Mac fan. Felt like I knew something everyone else didn't. :nod:

LOL - I went to HS from 1981 to 1985 - so FM and the solo ventures were huge :laugh: I am truly fortunate to have been there for that :D

[dissention]

The only "clunker," in my very humble opinion, is "Save Me A Place."
Which I know has a pretty decent-sized following around these parts, but to me, it still sounds like the aural equivalent of sludge. :shrug:

Carne and I are a decent-sized following? I don't ever see anyone but the two of us say that it's such an amazing song! LOL

As for the sludge comment, I guess we'll be even from now on when discussing WISYA (as we always do...). :xoxo:

[dissention]

Orpheus bless you, child. No truer words have ever come out of your keyboard. :thumbsup:

:laugh:

We must be kindred souls.

[strandinthewind]

Carne and I are a decent-sized following? I don't ever see anyone but the two of us say that it's such an amazing song! LOL

As for the sludge comment, I guess we'll be even from now on when discussing WISYA (as we always do...). :xoxo:

Hello - I LOVE SMAP and applauded with exoltation when he played it live in Chicago. AND at 6'4" I count as two in the herd :eek:

[CarneVaca]

Carne and I are a decent-sized following? I don't ever see anyone but the two of us say that it's such an amazing song! LOL

Clearly he was referring to the size of our personalities, not the number of fans of the song. [ducking for the inevitable slam from Soudascouts] :laugh:

[shackin'up]

Carne and I are a decent-sized following? I don't ever see anyone but the two of us say that it's such an amazing song! LOL


well, count me in. But, as I recall, Strandinthewind is a smap-lover, and I've seen a lot of mentions of this heartfelt song in wishlists for the setlist. But maybe I'm wrong and only see it in my own dreams a bit too many. :shrug:

[CarneVaca]

Hello - I LOVE SMAP and applauded with exoltation when he played it live in Chicago. AND at 6'4" I count as two in the herd :eek:

Jason, since I like you anyway, you can join the Save Me a Place Appreciators Association, or SMAPAA, pronounce "smapah." Welcome. Now we have to come up with a suitable induction ritual.

[dissention]

Clearly he was referring to the size of our personalities, not the number of fans of the song. [ducking for the inevitable slam from Soudascouts] :laugh:

If that's the case, we outnumber all these suckers.

[CarneVaca]

well, count me in. But, as I recall, Strandinthewind is a smap-lover, and I've seen a lot of mentions of this heartfelt song in wishlists for the setlist. But maybe I'm wrong and only see it in my own dreams a bit too many. :shrug:

OK, you too may join SMAPAA. What's the password?

[strandinthewind]

Jason, since I like you anyway, you can join the Save Me a Place Appreciators Association, or SMAPAA, pronounce "smapah." Welcome. Now we have to come up with a suitable induction ritual.

Give me tequila, a worm, and a live chicken with a terrified look on its face . . . :woohoo:

[shackin'up]

Holy cow, you post so quick that my Strandmention just falls into "what-the- hell-is-he-talking-about-I-just-read-that-from-the-guy-himself"-category.

bugger. :laugh:

[dissention]

Jason, since I like you anyway, you can join the Save Me a Place Appreciators Association, or SMAPAA, pronounce "smapah." Welcome. Now we have to come up with a suitable induction ritual.

No ritual would be complete without a chant:

We're alone now
With our SMAP
And how we all love it
How it simply kicks ass
And, ooh, the chants of ole "smapah"

[shackin'up]

OK, you too may join SMAPAA. What's the password?

IsniffAthinLine

[dissention]

Give me tequila, a worm, and a live chicken with a terrified look on its face . . . :woohoo:

It ain't Skull & Bones, man.

[dissention]

IsniffAthinLine

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[stefan]

well, count me in. But, as I recall, Strandinthewind is a smap-lover, and I've seen a lot of mentions of this heartfelt song in wishlists for the setlist. But maybe I'm wrong and only see it in my own dreams a bit too many. :shrug:

Well then we are the European section of the club aren't we?
Anyway count me in too

[wondergirl9847]

Ya'll are crackin' me up!!! I wanna join SMAPAA too, it's a terrific song!

"And I guess I need to be amazed."

That line. :)

[shackin'up]

Well then we are the European section of the club aren't we?
Anyway count me in too

Well of course you're welcome. Although...everytime I see your avatar I have to scratch my eh............






chesthair.

[strandinthewind]

BTW - at the Chicago thing I belted out harmony with LB on the chorus on SMAP and considering I was on like the third row . . . :cool: That makes me the Pres. of the Club. See how quickly my acumen allows advancement within the ranks. Not to worry though, we can hold meetings in my HUGE SUV ( :wavey: Dissention :wavey: )

[Johnny Stew]

Carne and I are a decent-sized following? I don't ever see anyone but the two of us say that it's such an amazing song! LOL

As for the sludge comment, I guess we'll be even from now on when discussing WISYA (as we always do...). :xoxo:*hehehe*

I know Jason also likes it, and I'm pretty sure Christy and Nancy do as well. And I know I've seen at least a few others mention it in their setlist wishlists, so I assumed it's a favorite of theirs.

But yeah, the two of you are definitely the ones who talk it up the most.
It's your own personal "When I See You Again." ;) :laugh:

Don't know why there's so many doors in the hallway
Don't know why I'd rather stare at the stairs
Turn me off, turn me out
But don't ask, "what's the matter, baby"

When I see you again, will you save me a place
When I see you again, will you be amazed
When I see you again, will your great eyes still say
"I"ll come running if you love me today"

[dissention]

BTW - at the Chicago thing I belted out harmony with LB on the chorus on SMAP and considering I was on like the third row . . . :cool: That makes me the Pres. of the Club. See how quickly my acumen allows advancement within the ranks. Not to worry though, we can hold meetings in my HUGE SUV ( :wavey: Dissention :wavey: )

Just because the club is run by elitists it doesn't mean we have an open door policy for assholes. :wavey:

Check yourself!

[strandinthewind]

Ladies and gentlemen, the handsome and talented Johnny Stew!

:D
BTW - Johnny Stew this is shipperdom at its finest. The merger of LB and SN in prose because you know that is what they really meant!!!! :cool:

[cliffdweller]

The lyrics to SMAP are heart-wrenching. Therefore, I was immediately drawn to this song like a moth to a flame. When he wants to, Lindsey can pull at the old heart strings. A lot of times though, it's the way he combines nostalgic, bitter-sweet sentiment to minimal lyrics. Perfect examples are:SMAP (of course), IKINW, and TSYHA.

And then there are his angry songs... :laugh:

[stefan]

Well of course you're welcome. Although...everytime I see your avatar I have to scratch my eh............






chesthair.

Ah yes and remember thousands of the little fellows will be with you tonight and tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. In case you feel lonely one day- you're not :laugh:

But when it`s time to move on, Roy Makaay could very well be the next to be my avatar. My little Netherlands-tribute...

[shackin'up]

But when it`s time to move on, Roy Makaay could very well be the next to be my avatar. My little Netherlands-tribute...

That's a lot better!!!!

So that'll be your new avatar until that one day this summer in Portugal. Then you're going back to the friggin' bedbug, I presume. :p

[diamondsnake]

You know Diamondsnake may be the most provactive of anyone on this board.....Each day he posts a new thread. The title is often a question to all ledgies. The post itself can at times be filled with statements written in the manner and innocence of a 15 year old, but man they sure do get this board jumping. I am not even going to get into the issues of taste and perception vs fact that he often blurs....So yeah, as Hayley says someday he may become more mature, but until then he will surely continue to drive the discourse on this board.

Look, I am a 15-year-old, but I don't think that means I lack the maturity to understand Lindsey's music. I have ears! And to me, his stuff on Tusk doesn't sound good. I love his stuff on every other album, I just think he went a little too far on this album. I love his stuff on SYW, which is a tad "out there", but his songs on SYW still sound like music to me. His Tusk stuff sounds strange.

Also, if you think I "drive the discourse on this board" and you don't want to be involved in it, then don't open up the threads with my name under them.

[diamondsnake]

I love Lindsey's Tusk stuff, it's Chris' material that leaves me cold. It's just dull.

Save Me A Place and The Ledge are two of Lindsey's best songs.

Really, you don't like any of Christine's stuff on Tusk? And, I agree, I like the Ledge (that is the "counting on my fingers" song, right?)

[dissention]

Really, you don't like any of Christine's stuff on Tusk? And, I agree, I like the Ledge (that is the "counting on my fingers" song, right?)

I like some of it, but for the most part, I think it's very weak. Brown Eyes and Think About Me are her best. I'm not a big fan of her '79-'82 songs, anyways.

[stefan]

That's a lot better!!!!

So that'll be your new avatar until that one day this summer in Portugal. Then you're going back to the friggin' bedbug, I presume. :p

Well unfortunately I must say this time I guess you're right. :eek: On the other hand you guys could very well use some penalty practice before the summer gets closer, right...? :laugh:
Anyway I like him- the "Tor-Phantom", he's a very down to earth sympathetic guy out of the field. So here we go... with Roy

[diamondsnake]

I like some of it, but for the most part, I think it's very weak. Brown Eyes and Think About Me are her best. I'm not a big fan of her '79-'82 songs, anyways.

That's weird. Brown Eyes and think about me are my least favorites of Christines. I love Honey Hi, Never Forget, and Over and Over. But I guess, when I think about it. Her contributions aren't that great on this album.

[wondergirl9847]

Yeah, her Tusk songs aren't my faves either. I love Think About Me and Brown Eyes, but the others, eh. I think my fave collection of Christine songs is from Tango. I love ALL of her songs on that album. My second fave collection would be from MTM.

[stefan]

Yeah, her Tusk songs aren't my faves either. I love Think About Me and Brown Eyes, but the others, eh. I think my fave collection of Christine songs is from Tango. I love ALL of her songs on that album. My second fave collection would be from MTM.
Yessss, now normally comes my time... I have said several times that my own copy of TUSK is without Christines tunes as I don't see them fitting into the album concept. I only left Think about me in. After the discussion we had several weeks ago I gave it a fair chance and rethought that. I still absolutely can't stand Brown eyes, Honey Hi and Never make me cry. Sorry in my opinion and ears they are awful boring. But... I have to admit that Over and over really grew on me. I like it now. Never forget is also O.K.
I also think that Stevies and Lindseys tunes build the perfect balance on Tusk as different as they are.

[shackin'up]

On the other hand you guys could very well use some penalty practice before the summer gets closer, right...? :laugh:


No, Stefan. A dutch player is just not capable of that. We have to do it in regular time. And I love ALL Christines songs on Tusk. Cause it's surrounded by out-of-sace-quality from the other two. She provides rest, cool breezes and there's some harmony on her songs that's priceless. I never skip a song on Tusk. Although it's percepted as a melting pot of individualistic outings, for me this album is a whole. An entity. For me there is no album in rock-history that is so much more than the sum of the parts as Tusk is.

If the dutch team has one-tenth of that this summer, noone's going to beat them. :shocked:

[MacMan]

Everyone seems to be doing exactly what you just did gerald... Making a statement.

[sodascouts]

Clearly he was referring to the size of our personalities, not the number of fans of the song. [ducking for the inevitable slam from Soudascouts] :laugh:

Shoot, I was going to say something, but now I'll have to refrain as a matter of principle. I hate being predictable. Foiled again!

[strandinthewind]

This may not exactly fit in with this thread, but it kind of does. Having heard what I assume is the demo for GDW, I think the spacy ending of GDW can be attributed to LB - it is not apparent in any way on the demo. In fact, although the beautiful and yearning "baby don't leave me - I'm down on my knees - begging you to please" lines are accompanied with harmonious oooo and ahhaaa's, they are literal and structured and that vocal was not on the final product. In the Rumors DVD, LB comments that GDW is loose and almost jazz like, yet the three part harmonies made it fit in on Rumors, etc. So, I was thinking the almost tribal beats in the tumultuous, frenetic ending are almost Tusk like in their structure. I think this is a hint of LB's Tusk genre even then. I also find it ironic that GDW closes the Rumors record as almost a promise or foreboding wave to what was to come.

Interestingly, Stevie's yearning screams were very popular in the 70's era band - just listen to her haunting screams/moans at the end of Green Manalishi during the FM FM tour. GDW's ending vocal was borne out of that I think.

Anyway - I am thinking out loud.

[sodascouts]

*hehehe*

I know Jason also likes it, and I'm pretty sure Christy and Nancy do as well. And I know I've seen at least a few others mention it in their setlist wishlists, so I assumed it's a favorite of theirs.

But yeah, the two of you are definitely the ones who talk it up the most.
It's your own personal "When I See You Again." ;) :laugh:

It's a lovely song. I actually figured most people liked it. Putting that and WISYA in the same category is incomprehensible to me!

That being said....
Don't know why there's so many doors in the hallway
Don't know why I'd rather stare at the stairs
Turn me off, turn me out
But don't ask, "what's the matter, baby"

When I see you again, will you save me a place
When I see you again, will you be amazed
When I see you again, will your great eyes still say
"I"ll come running if you love me today"

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WelshWitchPMD]

When Tusk first came out in 1979 one of the AM radio stations in Boston played the whole LP. I only caught some of it and I did not care for what I heard.

Of course I did not hear the whole LP and the station did not even come in that clear down in Providence.

Tusk was released the next day and I sent my Mom to the store to buy it for me because I was in school. The first time I heard it on vinyl at home I liked it. Maybe by the 3rd time I played both LPs I was in love with it!

Tusk is just something that has to grow on you. In a few months you might say "I love this album". Everyone has their own individual taste and it not going to like the same things. I still can't get into Law and Order for example. I like Not that Funny, too and I know a lot of people that don't.

[The Tower]

I do think his stuff is a mixed bag- but the greatness is truly greatness, whereas the lesser stuff isn't nearly the lows from "Mirage".

"Save Me a Place", "That's Enough For Me", "That's All For Everyone", and "Walk a Thin Line" are absolute, absolute greatness.

I know this is redundant, but what the hell.... "Sara", "Storms", "Sisters of the Moon", "Over and Over" and "Think About Me" could never have been the masterpieces they are without Lindsey's skill and vision. 'Nuff said, man.

:thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

I totally love that idea Jason, and I think you're right.

It hit me like a beacon as I was driving home a few minutes ago :eek:

Interestingly, SS has that sort of screaming at the end, but it is more like a nanny nanny boo boo type thing to me in its almost taunting laugh like OOooooohhhh OOoooooohhhhh OOooooohhhh OOOOhh Oooohhh Ahhh AHhh AHHHHHHH hhhhha hahhhhhaaaa. GDW is just so brilliant in its unstructured and frenetic angst.

[dissention]

It hit me like a beacon as I was driving home a few minutes ago :eek:

Interestingly, SS has that sort of screaming at the end, but it is more like a nanny nanny boo boo type thing to me in its almost taunting laugh like OOooooohhhh OOoooooohhhhh OOooooohhhh OOOOhh Oooohhh Ahhh AHhh AHHHHHHH hhhhha hahhhhhaaaa. GDW is just so brilliant in its unstructured and frenetic angst.

That whole post is f'ing hysterical, Jason. I laughed for a hearty five minutes. :laugh:

[John Run]

Diamondsnake, it was a compliment. You, at an age far younger than most of us have the ability to be the catalyst for discussion on this board. That is not a negative that I know of.....Look how much discussion this topic has raised in less than 12 hours.

[Hawkeye]

Do you guys think Lindsey's Tusk songs are his darkest?

No, not even close. His go Insane songs are his darkest. they're not better but they're darker.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Kinda off this topic, but I just recently discovered Out of the Cradle, and it contains some of my favorite Lindsey songs ever...a very personal album, and the sound is just phenomenal...kinda poppy, but it's great...I bought it for $2.99 so that was even better!

Chris

[The Tower]

Kinda off this topic, but I just recently discovered Out of the Cradle, and it contains some of my favorite Lindsey songs ever...a very personal album, and the sound is just phenomenal...kinda poppy, but it's great...I bought it for $2.99 so that was even better!

Chris


Even if it IS off-topic, it's a great one to talk about. "Surrender the Rain" is perhaps Lindsey's BEST song ever, in my opinion. I think his Out of the Cradle material was his absolute peak!

[CarneVaca]

That's a lot better!!!!

So that'll be your new avatar until that one day this summer in Portugal. Then you're going back to the friggin' bedbug, I presume. :p

Not to get nationalistic, but Portugal is going to kick their assets. :eek:

[greatdarkwing]

Chris, I understand the boat you are currently in...I started on these boards at 15 as well. I am now 18, and my taste has matured CONSIDERABLY...

Back when I first joined, I only listened to Stevie's songs, and never gave anyone else a try. But after hearing everyones opinions about Chris' and Lindsey's songs, I gave them a chance...and WOW I AM GLAD I DID!

Lindsey is nothing short of brilliant. June 6th, 2003 I sat 2nd row in front of Lindsey in Fort Lauderdale in pure awe! The man is NOTHING SHORT OF GENIUS....Take every song you like of Stevies and Chris from FM, (up to Tango) and realize they would not be ANYTHING close to their greatness if Lindsey wasn't there to guide them!

"Tusk" does take some getting used to, but you are in the early stages....I remember at my first listens only appreciating "the Ledge" and "tusk", but you will soon grow to LOVE and APPRECIATE Lindseys contribution to this record (I agree with everyone...Christine did not have good moments here, and thats fine....I could probably pick an album where I could say each member wasnt great). Just give it time....my advice is to give the record 3 complete run-throughs...I promise you will like them a bit more.

BTW...."Save Me A Place" is such an amazing song...you should really give that one a really good extra listen....Carne is dead right that this song is amazing.

Also, just be careful with the way certain things get posted....some people could take it the wrong way...if you ever have a question or anything, feel free to email me or PM me...

~Alex

[shackin'up]

Not to get nationalistic,

So why did you do so?? :laugh:

[shackin'up]

I'd like to see Tusk placed up there with the White Album. Actually to me it's better.

Yep. :thumbsup:

[shackin'up]

Everyone seems to be doing exactly what you just did gerald... Making a statement.

Yes, sometimes it's hard to pronounce subtlety in dialogue when you're not a native speaker. I wish I could. I have an opinion, though, and that's best reflected in a clear statement. Actually, I love statements.

[Mari]

What did I hear about a SMAPAA? Can I join? :blob1: :blob2:

[shackin'up]

What did I hear about a SMAPAA? Can I join? :blob1: :blob2:

Only if you know the right password :lol: :lol:

[Mari]

*whispers* IsniffAthinLine :D

[shackin'up]

*whispers* IsniffAthinLine :D

so you're IN!!! :blob1:

[Mari]

:] :] :]

Not just that, I'm also very bored by my job today, can you tell? :lol:
(*snort*)

[CarneVaca]

I'd have to say my least favourite Lindsey song off that record is the title track, and yet that is still amazing (although I've always felt it never worked very well live, I can't understand why they still play it over other Tusk tracks).

I know what you mean. The best live take I've seen, outside of the Dance video with the full marching band, was in Lindsey's solo tour. All those guitar slamming down those chords sounded rich and full.

Using an accordion in place of the marching band is very weak indeed. I haven't seen the band during the current tour, but with all the backing musicians and the right keyboard patch I bet they could do a decent job of making the song sound as boisterous as it should.

[CarneVaca]

Do you guys think Lindsey's Tusk songs are his darkest?
I suppose it contains some of his most bitter songs, which some people might find hard to relate to (although the actual sound is probably the biggest factor in why some people don't like it).

Bitter, yes, but not the darkest. To me, the SYW tunes have a darker undertone, closer to lead skies just before a thunderstorm. It starts with the whine of What's the World Coming To over a fairly upbeat tempo, then goes into the morass of Murrow, which grabs you by the lapels in the verses and then has you running around disoriented in a house of mirrors in the chorus. Then comes Illume, a dark and somber song in its own right with that faintly Middle Eastern drone. Then you have things like Miranda, which to me lyrically is about as good as it gets. I love the brutal, disturbing images in that song, the power of which is increased by the matter-of-fact delivery. Then comes the irony of Peacekeeper, then the humorous nastiness of Come, and let's not forget the darkest song of them all, Red Rover. I'm still not sure what the hell he's talking about, yet the song produces a sense of foreboding and discomfort.

There's also an undercurrent of paranoia in some of the songs, but that is not a new thing for Lindsey.

[CarneVaca]

So why did you do so?? :laugh:

We all have our demons, and sometimes they escape. By the way, check your e-mail inbox when you get a chance.

[CarneVaca]

Actually, I love statements.

Gerald, that is the best freakin' quote I've seen in a long time. :laugh: I am going to use that some time. I really am.

[shackin'up]

Gerald, that is the best freakin' quote I've seen in a long time. :laugh: I am going to use that some time. I really am.

Thanks, dude. I thought it was quite impressive myself :rolleyes: . Yes, I'm a proud man. You can use it anytime you like. :cool: ;)

[shackin'up]

We all have our demons, and sometimes they escape. By the way, check your e-mail inbox when you get a chance.

I'll check when I come home. Now I have to check my students in the dark room where they are developping pictures made with a soupcan. Oldfashioned, but the best friggin' way to learn about photography. (why am I telling this?)

[shackin'up]

Bitter, yes, but not the darkest. To me, the SYW tunes have a darker undertone, closer to lead skies just before a thunderstorm. It starts with the whine of What's the World Coming To over a fairly upbeat tempo, then goes into the morass of Murrow, which grabs you by the lapels in the verses and then has you running around disoriented in a house of mirrors in the chorus. Then comes Illume, a dark and somber song in its own right with that faintly Middle Eastern drone. Then you have things like Miranda, which to me lyrically is about as good as it gets. I love the brutal, disturbing images in that song, the power of which is increased by the matter-of-fact delivery. Then comes the irony of Peacekeeper, then the humorous nastiness of Come, and let's not forget the darkest song of them all, Red Rover. I'm still not sure what the hell he's talking about, yet the song produces a sense of foreboding and discomfort.

There's also an undercurrent of paranoia in some of the songs, but that is not a new thing for Lindsey.

Very nice descriptions, I agree. Still, I'm still puzzling with the Tusksongs-lyrics, and their possible relations with suicide. Okay, from dark songs to dark rooms now...

[AgainLindsey]

"say you will" is lindsey at his darkest and finest, but we get lindsey’s best creative quirks on “tusk!” it’s astounding how he got his diverse slate of sounds onto an album which show him as the musical genius he is! :woohoo: :) :woohoo: :)

his lyrics are clever and inventive:

Slippin’ through your fingers
Watchin’ how it grows”
- Lindsey Buckingham from “The Ledge”

What makes you think I’m the one
Who will love your forever?
Everything you do has been done
And this won’t last forever”
Every little bit
Is there
To see
Every little bit
Of you
And me.
- Lindsey Buckingham from “What Makes You Think You’re the One?”

It’s not that funny is it
When you don’t know what it is
But you can’t get enough of it
It’s not that funny is it?
Lindsey Buckingham from - “It’s Not That Funny”

Her lips were waitin’
Her eyes looked sad
The dreams of a lifetime
A year gone bad
The dreams of a lifetime
Told me wrong
Everything is all right
And now it’s gone
Don’t blame me
Please be strong I know I’m not wrong
Here comes the nighttime
Lookin' for a little more
Waitin’ on the right time
Somebody outside the door
Don’t blame me
Please be strong I know I’m not wrong
- Lindsey Buckingham from “I Know I’m Not Wrong.” (my "tusk" original lyric booklet says “please 'me' strong” for the last line, but the reissue book has "please be")

and lindsey is the ultimate melodist! (on every album, really.)


my only complaint would be that there are not enough guitar-hero rave-ups on "tusk," but he’s more than made up for that now! besides, he plays everything else to perfection! :blob2:

thank God lindsey doesn’t cave to formula to woo the mainstream
which would make him like “all the rest.” { Sigh }

[4Buck]

The entire album is timeless! I love all of Buckingham's TUSK cuts. SAVE ME A PLACE is one of the prettiest songs ever written. It's chorus triggers a sing-a-long!

After Nicks' and McVie's beautiful and dreamy numbers, Buckingham interjects the right dash of his concocted eclecticism where you least expect it, so the masterpiece never drags.

"I Know I'm Not Wrong," sings Buckingham. He's right! :)

Since the remasters were released, TUSK has become my favorite Fleetwood Mac album right next to SAY YOU WILL!

[AngelaM]

I love 'Walk a Thin Line' but have always been bugged by the line 'No one says nothing', which of course means the opposite of what Lindsey probably intended. I'm just an old grump. :sorry:

Angela
:laugh:

[Cristian]

Tusk is better than the Fab Four's White album in my humbe opinion.
*runs and hides from the Beatles fanatics**counting... 1.... 2.... 3.... 4.... 5....*

:shrug: :shrug:

;)


Song of the moment - Silver Springs

[shackin'up]

I think you probably knew what I meant Gerard,

Yes, I didn't think of Mac's white FM-album for a millisecond. I knew you were making a statement here. And I totally degree, like I stated before, for me there is no better album in rockhistory than Tusk. So glad that there are people in the world who actually CAN relate to that!!!

gerald

[ryan8472]

Tusk is better than the Fab Four's White album in my humbe opinion.
*runs and hides from the Beatles fanatics*

I agree. There are a lot of songs on the White album (Beatles) that I don't care for. Whereas with Tusk, I can listen to the whole album from start to finish without skipping a track. And I'm a huge fan of The Beatles.

Anyways, back to the original topic...

I personally love all of Lindsey's songs on Tusk. I admit, when I first bought it, I only knew what had been on TVBOFM: Tusk, Sara, Storms, SOTM, WMYTYTO. At that time, I only really cared for Tusk. Even after giving the album a first listen, I wasn't quite sure what to make of it. However, after repeated listens, I found new things I liked about every song. I took a liking to Linds' songs in particular; they were just so quirky (and sometimes bizzare) that it was like nothing I'd ever heard before (that was before I heard Talking Heads :laugh: )! Now that I've heard the album so many times, I can appreciate every song on there because of their uniqueness (is that a word?!) and how they fit perfectly along side others from Tusk.

[dontlookdown]

I love 'Walk a Thin Line' but have always been bugged by the line 'No one says nothing', which of course means the opposite of what Lindsey probably intended. I'm just an old grump. :sorry:

Angela
:laugh:


When it's rock and roll, you have to forget about grammar. Look at Springsteen's lyrics or Dylan's. Nobody's more poetic in rock music and they threw good grammar out the window from day 1.

Walk A Thin Line might be my favorite song on Tusk, and therefore one of my all time favorite songs. It's so gorgeous. I also love the version on Mick's album. Beautiful guitar from George Harrison.

[chiliD]

...but just to clarify, when I said the White Album, I meant the Beatles experimental classic rather than the Mac's 1975 album. I read back my original post and thought, "well obviously it's better than that album", then remembered I meant the Beatles. Tusk is better than the Fab Four's White album in my humbe opinion.
*runs and hides from the Beatles fanatics*


:shocked:
Don't think this didn't get past me... :mad:

...I'd started a reply earlier today...but decided against posting it due to the fact I WOULD'VE gotten a strike...if not three all at once. :laugh:

{note to self} :cool: (Ok, trackaghost, dissed the Beatles...another one "on the list"...and ryan8472 agreed...yet ANOTHER one on the list. Anyone else wanna make "THE LIST"? :shrug: Just keep up with the Beatle dissin')

[stefan]

:shocked:
Ok, trackaghost, dissed the Beatles...another one "on the list"...and ryan8472 agreed...yet ANOTHER one on the list. Anyone else wanna make "THE LIST"? :shrug: Just keep up with the Beatle dissin')[/i]
Uhm all right then, that means we're going to talk about "Time" now :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

:shocked:
en a strike...if not three all at once. :laugh:

{note to self} :cool: (Ok, trackaghost, dissed the Beatles...another one "on the list"...and ryan8472 agreed...yet ANOTHER one on the list. Anyone else wanna make "THE LIST"? :shrug: Just keep up with the Beatle dissin')

Chili, why is it dissing the Beatles to say that you like Tusk better than the White Album? Add me to the list, because I feel that way. I love the White Album, but I prefer Tusk. Fer You Blues is one of my favorite songs, and I truly dig Obladi Oblada, even if some people think it's one of the worst songs ever. So much good stuff on there: Glass Onion, While My Guitar, I'm So Tired, Birthday, Happiness Is a Warm Gun. But there are a couple of dogs.

Tusk too has a couple of stinkers... Hmmm...this just gave me a terrific idea: Take the best John Lennon songs (and While My Guitar) and add them to the Lindsey songs from Tusk (and Sara) for the ultimate album!!

[wondergirl9847]

YAY ME!! LOL

Seriously, I agree with Carne. How is that dissing the Beatles when you say you prefer Tusk over the White Album? :confused:

Dissing them would be saying "They suck."

[chiliD]

Chili, why is it dissing the Beatles to say that you like Tusk better than the White Album?

They didn't say that they "like it better", they said "IS better". Way different.

[shackin'up]

ChiliD. people say: to me, it's better or it is better in my humble opinion.
Isn't that the same as you would like to see it pronounced?

Carne. I don't want one Lennon song on Tusk. It IS the ultimate album already.....













:blob2: :blob2: ok, chili, to my ears. ;)

[chiliD]

:thumbsup:

[CarneVaca]

Carne. I don't want one Lennon song on Tusk. It IS the ultimate album already.....

Fair enough. But imagine Lindsey an John working together. Oh, man. :nod:

[Mari]

Cold Turkey's Not That Funny :)

[shackin'up]

Fair enough. But imagine Lindsey an John working together. Oh, man. :nod:

you may say I'm a dreamer......but I'm not the only one....

[chiliD]

I did say it was my humble opinion. But even if I did say it IS better, it's all subjective anyway.

And ChiliD, look into your heart and admit it, Tusk is better than the White Album. Go on, you know it's true.
;)


Sorry, NOBODY ANYWHERE tops the Beatles...not even the Peter Green era Mac can top 'em...NOBODY. The Beatles are #1...have been since that Februrary Sunday night in 1963 when I first saw 'em on Ed Sullivan at age 7, all the way until I cried for three days straight when I read they'd officially broken up at age 14, to the sorrow I felt when John Lennon was assassinated at age 24, to when George succumbed to cancer a couple of years ago. And, ESPECIALLY recently since I've been watching the Anthology series. Fleetwood Mac will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER come CLOSE to touching the Beatles...not even the fact that Mick was once a Beatle Brother-in-Law counts. :distress:

The closest Tusk comes to comparing to the Beatles White Album is that, like the Beatles album, it is a double album of basically solo material performed by enough band members to call it a group effort. Beyond that, there's no comparison.

[Johnny Stew]

You know, I actually think Stevie would've made a better songwriting partner for Lennon, in much the same way McCartney always was.

Lennon's outlook and Lindsey's outlook might equal a little too much of the same thing. Whereas if you have Lennon there to ground Stevie, and Stevie there to soften Lennon, I think that would be a more potent combination.

So I'd have partnered Stevie with John, and Lindsey with Paul. And, you know, Christine and George would've been an interesting combo too.

At least in my opinion. :)

[strandinthewind]

You know, I actually think Stevie would've made a better songwriting partner for Lennon, in much the same way McCartney always was.

Lennon's outlook and Lindsey's outlook might equal a little too much of the same thing. Whereas if you have Lennon there to ground Stevie, and Stevie there to soften Lennon, I think that would be a more potent combination.

So I'd have partnered Stevie with John, and Lindsey with Paul. And, you know, Christine and George would've been an interesting combo too.

At least in my opinion. :)

Chistine and John playing the piano together would be thrilling to see. I wonder if they ever did in private. I mean she certainly was pals with other stellat talent from that era :shrug:

[mylittledemon]

Well saying Fleetwood Mac will "NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER" come close to the Beatles is merely an opinion. You can put it in terms of money, sure the Beatles catalog will and has outsold Fleetwood Mac. In terms of #1 hits, yeah they've blown away Fleetwood Mac. In terms of fans, they probably have 5 times the amount of fans. But, it doesnt mean that the quality of music is any less. And it also doesnt mean that Fleetwood Mac can't ever mean MORE to someone than the Beatles. I like the Beatles a lot. I have several Harrison solo records, and I have Revolver, Abbey Road, Let it Be. But for me, Fleetwood Mac is it. There is no greater band. I love them more than the Beatles and I always will. So to myself and many others, Fleetwood Mac does touch the Beatles.

[Cristian]

Fleetwood Mac will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER come CLOSE to touching the Beatles...not even the fact that Mick was once a Beatle Brother-in-Law counts. :distress:.Amen, brother. :nod: :nod:


Song of the moment - Doesn't Anything Last

[Hawkeye]

You know, I actually think Stevie would've made a better songwriting partner for Lennon, in much the same way McCartney always was.

Lennon's outlook and Lindsey's outlook might equal a little too much of the same thing. Whereas if you have Lennon there to ground Stevie, and Stevie there to soften Lennon, I think that would be a more potent combination.

So I'd have partnered Stevie with John, and Lindsey with Paul. And, you know, Christine and George would've been an interesting combo too.

At least in my opinion.

And that leaves Mick and Ringo to just go crazy on the drums together.

[shackin'up]

Sorry, NOBODY ANYWHERE tops the Beatles...not even the Peter Green era Mac can top 'em...NOBODY. The Beatles are #1...have been since that Februrary Sunday night in 1963 when I first saw 'em on Ed Sullivan at age 7, all the way until I cried for three days straight when I read they'd officially broken up at age 14, to the sorrow I felt when John Lennon was assassinated at age 24, to when George succumbed to cancer a couple of years ago. And, ESPECIALLY recently since I've been watching the Anthology series. Fleetwood Mac will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER come CLOSE to touching the Beatles...not even the fact that Mick was once a Beatle Brother-in-Law counts. :distress:

The closest Tusk comes to comparing to the Beatles White Album is that, like the Beatles album, it is a double album of basically solo material performed by enough band members to call it a group effort. Beyond that, there's no comparison.

Not that I need everybody to say things like "to my ears" or "In my humble opinion" etcetera. You can state anything you want, as far as I'm concerned. But you seem very very eager to that. Now ChiliD, please read your own post again. Flip every " Beatles " with Fleetwood Mac/Tusk and this could have been my post. :lol:

[macfan 57]

Sorry, NOBODY ANYWHERE tops the Beatles...not even the Peter Green era Mac can top 'em...NOBODY. The Beatles are #1...have been since that Februrary Sunday night in 1963 when I first saw 'em on Ed Sullivan at age 7, all the way until I cried for three days straight when I read they'd officially broken up at age 14, to the sorrow I felt when John Lennon was assassinated at age 24, to when George succumbed to cancer a couple of years ago. And, ESPECIALLY recently since I've been watching the Anthology series. Fleetwood Mac will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER come CLOSE to touching the Beatles...not even the fact that Mick was once a Beatle Brother-in-Law counts. :distress:

The closest Tusk comes to comparing to the Beatles White Album is that, like the Beatles album, it is a double album of basically solo material performed by enough band members to call it a group effort. Beyond that, there's no comparison.

I completely agree. I love Christine/Fleetwood Mac but nothing can top the Beatles. Tusk is a great album, but better than or even as good as The Beatles White Album? No way. And, someone mentioned something about a George/Christine combo. That would have been fantastic since they are my two favorite musicians ever.

[ryan8472]

Everybody has their own opinions, and I respect that. I personally like Fleetwood Mac's music more than The Beatles'. That's all there is to it! I'm not trying to say one is better or worse than the other, I'm just saying that *I* like FM/Tusk more than The Beatles/White Album.

[strandinthewind]

. . . In other words, Lindsey's contribution and intentions are not the reason I don't put it up there with the WA. Once again, it shows, I'm not a huge fan of Christine.

Or Stevie - :laugh: :rolleyes:

Personally, I think comparing such diverse artists in terms of their work is a little hard to do because it comes down to personal taste. I love The Beatles. I love LB. I love CM. And - because of her personage (which far exceeds any of the former people) and talent, I love Stevie. But and again, they are all so different and very good if not excellent is so many ways. So, I say apples and oranges in so many ways :cool:

[strandinthewind]

I find it funny how people react with outrage when I say that I'm not really a fan of Christine and Stevie's work. I seem to offend whenever I mention that I'm really just a Lindsey fan, that it's his work that attracts me to FM and that for my liking, such albums as Tusk and SYW would be better with an even more prominent Lindsey.

I was ribbing you - silly :laugh:

But - you do exhibit obvious contempt for Stevie which will set people off - but I think you know that by now :laugh:

I mean if everytime I mentioned FM I said, LB is really there to be Stevie's session player and producer and he really should not sing - she's the star after all, you be a little offended considering your love of LB :shrug: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

you may say I'm a dreamer......but I'm not the only one....

You may say I'm dreamer, but I know I'm not wrong. Ta-ta ta-ta ta-ta. Tah-taa ta-ta-ta ta-ta.

[CarneVaca]

You know, I actually think Stevie would've made a better songwriting partner for Lennon, in much the same way McCartney always was.

Lennon's outlook and Lindsey's outlook might equal a little too much of the same thing. Whereas if you have Lennon there to ground Stevie, and Stevie there to soften Lennon, I think that would be a more potent combination.

So I'd have partnered Stevie with John, and Lindsey with Paul. And, you know, Christine and George would've been an interesting combo too.

At least in my opinion. :)

:distress: :distress:

My god, man!

[CarneVaca]

I find it funny how people react with outrage when I say that I'm not really a fan of Christine and Stevie's work. I seem to offend whenever I mention that I'm really just a Lindsey fan, that it's his work that attracts me to FM and that for my liking, such albums as Tusk and SYW would be better with an even more prominent Lindsey.

You're going to have to get used to that. Stevie fans will never be able to accept that without Lindsey her early songs wouldn't have been that interesting. And that was some of her best work, in my estimation. And without the impact of those early songs it is unlikely she would have gotten very far.

Take the disarmingly simple arrangement out of Landslide, the riff out of Rhiannon and the beautiful guitar work out of something like Frozen Love. You still have very powerful lyrics, but one, if one were being fair, would have to question how good the stuff would have been without Lindsey. Stevie fans know the answer deep down, but don't hold your breath for them to admit it. You'll become history before they do.

[CarneVaca]

CarneVaca, your theme tune should be I Know I'm Not Wrong ;)

The damn song has been stuck in my head for days. It's all Gerald's fault.

Last night I was playing it on my guitar. I can't get away from it.

[strandinthewind]

You're going to have to get used to that. Stevie fans will never be able to accept that without Lindsey her early songs wouldn't have been that interesting. And that was some of her best work, in my estimation. And without the impact of those early songs it is unlikely she would have gotten very far.

Take the disarmingly simple arrangement out of Landslide, the riff out of Rhiannon and the beautiful guitar work out of something like Frozen Love. You still have very powerful lyrics, but one, if one were being fair, would have to question how good the stuff would have been without Lindsey. Stevie fans know the answer deep down, but don't hold your breath for them to admit it. You'll become history before they do.

FOUL :wavey:

That is just like saying without Stevie's star power, which clearly eclipsed all in FM, LB would be playing guitar on the side of the road. While probably true in the sense that FM clearly benefitted greatly from Stevie's star power and still does, they are a group - the sum of which is FAR greater than the individual parts :nod: No one member is better than the other. They play of of each other and make great music. Yet, LB fans resent Stevie and vice vera. I will never get it, but the debate rages on . . . : :)

And I totally disagree, having met Stevie more than once, she just shines - she would have been famous. I mean her dad had to buy her out of a record contract to, I believe, join FM. Moreover, Stevie willingly acknowledges LB and she were a team playing off of each other. Moreover, the Q&A sessions here indicate those people recognized her talent and ambition. So, I do not get why people in general do not get that.

[strandinthewind]

and Lux - I get what you are saying. I am not saying that you are wrong for just liking LB. Who am I to tell you what to like :laugh: I am just saying that when you post, the tone that comes across is condescending to Stevie. You must know that because youy aleays refer to it. It is like you refuse to acknowledge that she is an intergral part of FM, when LB himself acknowledges that she is intergral :shrug:

Personally, I think you, like Carne, like to diss Stevie. So, go right ahead. Just don't expect the Chiffonheads, a scary bunch at that :lol: , to agree with you, esp. when you in effect say things like I wish Stevie would not sing on a FM record :laugh: I mean put yourself in their position - you would not take attacks like that on LB lying down would you? :cool:

[CarneVaca]

FOUL :wavey:

I think you meant fowl, you chickenhead! :laugh:

And I totally disagree, having met Stevie more than once, she just shines - she would have been famous.

Quite possible. But the fact remains, she wouldn't have joined FM if not for Lindsey. And that's when it all started. Until then she was a cleaning lady moonlighting as Janis Joplin wannabe. Ouch!!!

[CarneVaca]

Personally, I think you, like Carne, like to diss Stevie.

I take exception that. Moreover, I am deeply offended. :shocked:

[strandinthewind]

I take exception that. Moreover, I am deeply offended. :shocked:

I meant in general. Yet, it was harsh and I apologize - hat in hand :cool:

[CarneVaca]

I meant in general. Yet, it was harsh and I apologize - hat in hand :cool:

Dude, you know I was kidding. Besides, all this talk about chicken is making me very hungry. Hunger makes me ornery, or so says Mrs. Carne.

[strandinthewind]

I think you meant fowl, you chickenhead! :laugh:



Quite possible. But the fact remains, she wouldn't have joined FM if not for Lindsey. And that's when it all started. Until then she was a cleaning lady moonlighting as Janis Joplin wannabe. Ouch!!!

But LB would not have been noticed if he had not played in the band with the pretty girl singer, who he invited to join, and so on and so on and so on. MOREOVER :laugh: the only reason she was a cleaning lady is because she chose to support LB, which got them noticed and he could not have done that without her support :laugh:

In the end, the conclusion must be they play off of each other :shrug:

[CarneVaca]

But LB would not have been noticed if he had not played in the band with the pretty girl singer, who he invited to join, and so on and so on and so on. MOREOVER :laugh: the only reason she was a cleaning lady is because she chose to support LB, which got them noticed and he could not have done that without her support :laugh:

In the end, the conclusion must be they play off of each other :shrug:

Moreover, Mick didn't even want Stevie. Lindsey had to insist.

Take that! :lol:

I think I'll have some fish instead. Though, it's still early to be thinking about lunch. See what you did?

[strandinthewind]

Moreover, Mick didn't even want Stevie. Lindsey had to insist.

Take that! :lol:

I think I'll have some fish instead. Though, it's still early to be thinking about lunch. See what you did?

But my point is one of the main reasons Mick noticed LB is because La Nicks got off her ass and got a job to support them. It would have been difficult for LB to play brilliant guitar when simultaneously saying "would you like hot or mild sauce" in his Taco Bell uniform :shrug: :laugh: They were a team worth far more than the individual parts; I do not get how people do not see that. Finally, LB did not want to go without her, which means she has some merit :laugh:

and the band played on . . .

[CarneVaca]

Finally, LB did not want to go without her, which means she has some merit :laugh:

Come on, Strandie, you're a guy. He was gettin' some and he knew that if he joined the band without her, he'd be cut off. ;) That's how guys think.

Maybe pasta. I'll have some pasta.

[strandinthewind]

Come on, Strandie, you're a guy. He was gettin' some and he knew that if he joined the band without her, he'd be cut off. ;) That's how guys think.

Maybe pasta. I'll have some pasta.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I thought about saying that as well because having a hot woman who works to pay the bills is a sweet deal :laugh: , but did not want to risk the wrath of the women Ledgies. Obviously, you are more fearless than I :laugh: :cool:

[CarneVaca]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I thought about saying that as well, but did not want to risk the wrath of the women Ledgies. Obviously, you are more fearless than I :laugh: :cool:

You know what's funny, I'll be the first one to admit guys are pigs. And this is coming from a guy who considers himself a feminist. Hey, even the most enlightened among us have thoughts and desires. The difference is in how you conduct yourself.

There have been times I've told Mrs. Carne about how guys really see the world. At first she thought I was kidding... But I think she's beginning to believe me.

[Sorry if I've broken some male code here by freely admitting we're all pigs, and especially, sorry if I've offended anyone, male or female. Don't mean to. Just being honest.]

[sodascouts]

:) Well, I feel the same way about Fleetwood Mac. Nobody tops them for me ever since I discovered them aged 12. And yes, that includes the Beatles.

Right there with ya. The Beatles are overrated, IMHO.

[HomerMcvie]

[Sorry if I've broken some male code here by freely admitting we're all pigs, and especially, sorry if I've offended anyone, male or female. Don't mean to. Just being honest.]
We have a saying around here.
Women are bitches, and men are assholes. And some things never change. :p

[sodascouts]

I find it amusing how confidently some will assert their purely hypothetical arguments that are "proven" by made-up scenarios and acts that only occurred in their fantasies.

[CarneVaca]

I find it amusing how confidently some will assert their purely hypothetical arguments that are "proven" by made-up scenarios and acts that only occurred in their fantasies.

I love statements, especially pertinent ones.

[4Buck]

It is ashame women have turned into such bi!@#s, Homer. They've become so "me" focused. And I'm a woman (not a bi!@#). We expect the world to evolve around us and want help from men, but don't want to help them in their job in return. I don't think men are A$$@oles, at all. :)

A woman expects one man to supply all her needs, but a man needs many women to supply just one need. :)

Remember, Nicks was getting some money, as well, from her affluent parents in her younger days. It's in Mick Fleetwood's book. :)

He had to be what, early to mid 20s when he was just practicing his guitar and making phone solicitations. Many guys don't work at that age. They keep going to school. Nicks was a year and a half older.

Buckingham's certainly the more ambitious now!

During TUSK Nicks worked just one day per week while Buckingham was there all hours. For TANGO IN THE NIGHT she only showed 10 days total.

For SAY YOU WILL recording, Nicks would come in at 2 and leave at 7. Buckingham was there six days per week from 10 - 7 and sometimes according to Nicks he was working from 8am - 10pm.

That's what I love about Buckingham!!! :xoxo:

[sodascouts]

I love statements, especially pertinent ones.

Why, thank you. Be assured I feel exactly the same way about yours.

[sodascouts]

It is ashame women have turned into such bi!@#s, Homer. They've become so "me" focused. And I'm a woman (not a bi!@#).

Wow, how did you manage to transcend your repulsive gender status? Perhaps you actually are a man trapped in a woman's body. How else can this stunning phenomenon be explained?

[chiliD]

Right there with ya. The Beatles are overrated, IMHO.

:mad:

{sigh} Nancy. :distress:

[4Buck]

Wow, how did you manage to transcend your repulsive gender status? Perhaps you actually are a man trapped in a woman's body. How else can this stunning phenomenon be explained?

Why is it that a person has to believe in exactly the same thing as everyone else? :shrug:

Don't we have freedom of thought in this country?

[CarneVaca]

Wow, how did you manage to transcend your repulsive gender status? Perhaps you actually are a man trapped in a woman's body. How else can this stunning phenomenon be explained?

How sorry am I that I provoked this turn in the discussion? You know, I almost erased that post but decided not to because I figured too many people had already read it.

Oh well. Trouble is, it's not that funny. You gotta walk a thin line around here cuz ain't nobody going to save me a place if I fall off the ledge.

[CarneVaca]

Don't we have freedom of thought in this country?

We used to. Then Dubya took over...

[sodascouts]

Why is it that a person has to believe in exactly the same thing as everyone else? :shrug:

Don't we have freedom of thought in this country?

But I agreed with you, didn't I? Why would you see this as a condemnation of free thought? We worthless women need to stick together. Oh, I forgot you alone do have worth. Well, take pity on the rest of us.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Remember, Nicks was getting some money, as well, from her affluent parents in her younger days. It's in Mick Fleetwood's book. :)




And Mick is always so truthful! :rolleyes:

[Johnny Stew]

I just finished reading the last three or four pages of this thread, and my thoughts can be summed up thusly....

mmmmkay.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

How sorry am I that I provoked this turn in the discussion? You know, I almost erased that post but decided not to because I figured too many people had already read it.

No worries Carne... Cayla is a champion at turning discussions..... :rolleyes:

[shackin'up]

But I agreed with you, didn't I? Why would you see this as a condemnation of free thought? We worthless women need to stick together. Oh, I forgot you alone do have worth. Well, take pity on the rest of us.


:D :D :D :D

[shackin'up]

Well, it's too late to interfere, but I thank Strandinthewind and Carnevaca for a terrificly sharp and funny dialogue. Seems that the 'loving statements" and 'I know I'm not wrong' - disease takes off into a whole new atmosphere.

[shackin'up]

No worries Carne... Cayla is a champion at turning discussions..... :rolleyes:

But we should be eager to turn them around again immediately.

Question: who has some of the earliermentioned fullband-liveversions of i know I'm not wrong?

[shackin'up]

How sorry am I that I provoked this turn in the discussion? You know, I almost erased that post but decided not to because I figured too many people had already read it.

Oh well. Trouble is, it's not that funny. You gotta walk a thin line around here cuz ain't nobody going to save me a place if I fall off the ledge.


I'll come running....

[strandinthewind]

Well, it's too late to interfere, but I thank Strandinthewind and Carnevaca for a terrificly sharp and funny dialogue. Seems that the 'loving statements" and 'I know I'm not wrong' - disease takes off into a whole new atmosphere.

You are welcome Gerald!!!!!!!! :)

[CarneVaca]

Well, it's too late to interfere, but I thank Strandinthewind and Carnevaca for a terrificly sharp and funny dialogue. Seems that the 'loving statements" and 'I know I'm not wrong' - disease takes off into a whole new atmosphere.

Hey, for my part, thanks. If I'm keeping it sharp as opposed to just annoying the crap out of half the board, I suppose that is an improvement. My therapist will be happy.

Digging some solo Billy Burnette right now.

[HomerMcvie]

Why is it that a person has to believe in exactly the same thing as everyone else? Don't we have freedom of thought in this country?
No, we no longer have it. Political correctness robbed us of that in the last 20 or 30 years. Dare to speak your mind, and be ostrasized my society, or at least by Nancy. I was merely repeating a saying I've heard many times around here, following the post about breaking the man's code. Don't like it? :]

[sodascouts]

Dare to speak your mind, and be ostrasized my society, or at least by Nancy.

A fate worse than death.

I was cool with you, Homer, because you were equal-opportunity blaster, lol. I only get P.O.'ed if it's one-sided. At any rate I'll let it go now.

[Johnny Stew]

Dare to speak your mind, and be ostrasized my society, or at least by Nancy.I think that's unfair.
Nancy was responding to what many would agree, sounded like rather sexist comments (not referring to your statement, Homer, which was obviously tongue-in-cheek).

And while everyone is entitled to their opinion, there's nothing wrong with calling someone on comments that can be construed as derogatory, as long as it's done in a mature fashion.

[strandinthewind]

I think that's unfair.
Nancy was responding to what many would agree, sounded like rather sexist comments (not referring to your statement, Homer, which was obviously tongue-in-cheek).

And while everyone is entitled to their opinion, there's nothing wrong with calling someone on comments that can be construed as derogatory, as long as it's done in a mature fashion.

Once again the handsone and talented Johnny Stew :angel: is the voice of reason!!!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Are we meant to be responding to 4Buck? They're a troll right?


Indeedy :lol:

[Mari]

there's more of them? :eek: ;)

[CarneVaca]

I think that's unfair.
Nancy was responding to what many would agree, sounded like rather sexist comments (not referring to your statement, Homer, which was obviously tongue-in-cheek).

And while everyone is entitled to their opinion, there's nothing wrong with calling someone on comments that can be construed as derogatory, as long as it's done in a mature fashion.

My sincere apologies for lighting the spark.

[cliffdweller]

FOUL :wavey:

That is just like saying without Stevie's star power, which clearly eclipsed all in FM, LB would be playing guitar on the side of the road. While probably true in the sense that FM clearly benefitted greatly from Stevie's star power and still does, they are a group - the sum of which is FAR greater than the individual parts :nod: No one member is better than the other. They play of of each other and make great music. Yet, LB fans resent Stevie and vice vera. I will never get it, but the debate rages on . . . : :)

And I totally disagree, having met Stevie more than once, she just shines - she would have been famous. I mean her dad had to buy her out of a record contract to, I believe, join FM. Moreover, Stevie willingly acknowledges LB and she were a team playing off of each other. Moreover, the Q&A sessions here indicate those people recognized her talent and ambition. So, I do not get why people in general do not get that.

Word.

And also to add this question: Why can't (some people) admit that Stevie is a talented musician in her own right? She is you know, even if she can't noodle around on the guitar the way Lindsey does. She has her own musical strengths and I think we all know where they lay so I won't get into it. And don't get me wrong, I love both Stevie and Lindsey, and I post this at the risk of entering into the constant "Stevie's better, no Lindsey's better" debate that I really have not wish to enflame. It just irritates me beyond belief when someone says that Stevie's success is due to Lindsey and that without him she would have never gotten noticed. If that's the case, please explain her solo album success. I'd like to hear this one...

[dissention]

It is ashame women have turned into such bi!@#s, Homer. They've become so "me" focused. And I'm a woman (not a bi!@#). We expect the world to evolve around us and want help from men, but don't want to help them in their job in return. I don't think men are A$$@oles, at all. :)

A woman expects one man to supply all her needs, but a man needs many women to supply just one need. :)

Remember, Nicks was getting some money, as well, from her affluent parents in her younger days. It's in Mick Fleetwood's book. :)

He had to be what, early to mid 20s when he was just practicing his guitar and making phone solicitations. Many guys don't work at that age. They keep going to school. Nicks was a year and a half older.

Buckingham's certainly the more ambitious now!

During TUSK Nicks worked just one day per week while Buckingham was there all hours. For TANGO IN THE NIGHT she only showed 10 days total.

For SAY YOU WILL recording, Nicks would come in at 2 and leave at 7. Buckingham was there six days per week from 10 - 7 and sometimes according to Nicks he was working from 8am - 10pm.

That's what I love about Buckingham!!! :xoxo:

Whoa, dude. You're beginning to eclipse Andrew Dice Clay.

Give it a freakin' rest already.

[dissention]

Yeah, but the really freaky thing is that 4Buck is a girl!

4Buck hates women therefore hates herself. Kinda sad really when you think about it.

My word. It's more than sad. I have no problem with her on a personal level, but she really demonstrates herself to be a hateful person. She degrades her own gender for no other reason than to boost up a damned musician. It's beyond sad.

[DrummerDeanna]

I often wonder if Fleetwood Mac would have been as big if Stevie hadn't joined. I'm not trying to take anything away from Lindsey or Christine here, but their solo careers were never as big as Stevie's.
The biggest hits from the Mac's white album and from Rumours were Stevie's (Rhiannon and Dreams) and she kinda became the star of the group.
I'm not saying it's right, or that she deserved the attention more or that her songs are better but her popularity certainly played a big part in helping the band become so huge.

That is a good point, one I often think about myself. I am a Stevie girl first of all, but I have never discounted Lindsey's roll in Stevie's music, and to me Stevie is at her best when she's with Lindsey and the Mac...for sure...her material from FM is more pleasing to me than her solo stuff..which I also love though....anyway, I don't think FM would have been as big with just Lindsey...or with just Stevie...I think it comes down to everything happened at the right time for the right reasons...and it was just like meant to be...

[face of glass]

Ah well.

I'll discuss Lindsey's Tusk songs first since that's what this was originally about.

"The Ledge" - The ebullient opener of emotional chaos. The powerful, obsessive statement that erupts in the repetition at the end as the various Lindseys tell us "you're never gonna make it baby". To whom it was directed at is only our guess.

“Save Me A Place” – As Johnny said, it’s the “WISYA” of Lindsey Buckingham. It relies on the performance, not the songwriting. Put it to paper and it seems generic. And I’m not a big fan of it either because I think that other people have pulled off this kind of confessional intimacy better (SN, for instance). But, he makes up for it with the warmest harmonies on record. “Don’t know why I have to work, don’t know why I can’t play”, I think, refers to his love of music. He doesn’t want it to be work, he wants it to be fun or something that he can enjoy doing.

“What Makes You Think You’re The One” – I think this has something similar to “Caroline”, in that it has the same subtlety (in guitar tracks) and yet the very forced, even a tad violent, quality that gives it this sense of struggle. The drum tracks are responsible of it.

“That’s All For Everyone” – The hymn of self-isolation. It sounds like he’s trying to build up this huge wall of sound around him so that nothing could hurt him in this world. It’s an ocean of loneliness, of the esoteric. And it’s the first version of the “perverted Beach Boys” on the album.

“Not That Funny” – The childish rant. At the end of the piece you’re just watching at this little child who’s really angry and screams his head off. It grips my psyche in a different way than Stevie can do.

“That’s Enough For Me” – The rush of hedonism. Something that goes by so quickly that the point might be lost for some. I love the lyrical analysis that’s up at BuckinghamNicks.net. This is another flash of emotion on the album, a random moment in life that might be difficult to explain. But it’s also a load of fun.

“I Know I’m Not Wrong” – The life-affirming naivety. The guitar solo is one of the most beautiful things he has ever played. I just love this one to death.

“Walk A Thin Line” – “The perverted Beach Boys pt. 2”. Listen to those harmonies that rise higher and higher in the section before the final chorus. It sounds like monks chanting in the temple at sunrise.

“Tusk” – The tribal gathering. Starts out as a confessional of a paranoiac. Then rises in intensity until after the “real savage-like” line Lindsey has started ranting like the chief of the tribe (or the band, which is his tribe for this track). He just screams his head off in there and I understand how it was mixed low; it would have scared some people away. ;)

I said the White Album, I meant the Beatles experimental classic rather than the Mac's 1975 album.

Just to add something to this pot, I love the White Album as much. That one, like Tusk, is usually cited as being a bunch of random songs. But I think both have pretty much flawless sequencing in them, which is pretty amazing for albums with such diversity.

Here’s what Jeff Blehar wrote on the White Album:

The way "Cry Baby Cry" tails off into that little "can you take me back where I came from?" thing which haunts me in my dreams.
Running with that, the entire juxtaposition of that whole "childhood dream suite" at the end of the record blows me awaaaaaaay. Yeah, that's what I see it as, a dream. "Cry Baby Cry," well that's a nursery rhyme, the kind of thing a mother sings to her baby as she's rocking him to sleep...but it's so inexplicably ominous, like there's some sort of horror lurking in the shadows behind the happy Duchess Of Kircaldy and her duke (I hear it in the piano and in the slightly dissonant way the verses resolve themselves before moving on). Immediately as you "go to sleep" you have the little "can you take me back" link, which is a direct segue to childhood. And then: the nightmare. I see "Revolution 9" (which I happen to adore) as a HARROWING plunge into a nightmarish abyss of childhood dreams - think about all those "ma ma, da da, ga ga" noises Lennon & Ono are making, the random sounds of TVs and radios that fly in and out of the picture the way a small child picks up on all sorts of aural input without being able to sort and filter it, the sound of crackling flames and screams...god it can scare the living **** out of me if I'm listening in a darkened room, and THAT'S WHY IT'S SO GREAT. Music which can discomfit you, put you in a heightened emotional state. After it all, then they send in Ringo to reassure you that it's alright, sssh, stop crying, go back to sleep. Anyway, I'm sure you don't see it that way, but I think it's brilliant stuff, and the placement of these tracks is what makes them so wonderful - can you think of any other context in which "Revolution 9" and "Good Night" would have worked so well on this album? And they weren't conceived with each other in mind, they just happened to fall into place so serendipitously.

And I think Tusk has a similar great sequence too, in “Brown Eyes” (the erotic dream), “Never Make Me Cry” (the distant, empty feeling in the morning after) and “I Know I’m Not Wrong” (the naivety, the emotional uplift that it conveys so well after the desolation of “NMMC”).

Even though no one here will see it my way (and no one shouldn’t :eek: ) I still think there’s nothing inaccessible in Lindsey’s Tusk songs. They’re very human and describe different states of the human mind and I think they’re all states that we will find ourselves in sometimes.

And I think that every member in the Rumours FM were almost equally (you know my bias ;))necessary.

Lindsey was needed for derailing the band from the typical course, Stevie was needed because rock’n’roll isn’t all about music, it’s about stage charisma and presence too, Chris was needed because the band needed to stay in the ground sometimes (and she still wrote most of the hits) and the rhythm section was one of the tightest things in the business.

Lindsey’s most experimental work was done within FM and Stevie’s most soul-baring material was done within FM (IMO, of course). They were as influenced by the band as they were influential to the band itself anyway.

It was the chemistry that did it, in the end.

Generic statements but that’s what I think anyway. ;)

[Hippocampus]

For me Lindsey's Tusk songs are more miss than hit.

I love "Save Me A Place" and "I Know I'm Not Wrong" and that's about it.

The rest is a cacophony which ranges from the okay ("The Ledge", "Walk A Thin Line", "That's Enough For Me", "Tusk") to the downright annoying ("That's All For Everyone", "Not That Funny", "What Makes You Think You're The One"). The songs just don't click even after all those years and I never skip any when I'm in a "Tusk" mood.

I understand what he was going for but the overall effort comes off to my ears as wanting to be experimental for the sake of it, to steer away from the "Rumours formula" to prove he's more than "corporate rock".

He played all the instruments on his songs, there are virtually no vocal harmonies from the girls (I think I'm hearing a few but I'm not even certain). With Tusk we have a Lindsey solo album embedded in Fleetwood Mac tracks. This is clearly not a team effort, it's complete self-indulgence and I can understand why the others told him it would be the last time he'd go solo on the band's time.

This is of course nothing but my opinion.

[shackin'up]

This is clearly not a team effort, it's complete self-indulgence and I can understand why the others told him it would be the last time he'd go solo on the band's time.


So on Say You Will the band paid him back: " Sorry for our solo-in-bands-time-bullsh*t back then,you may do the same as on Tusk because in hindsight you were right, it is an artistic masterpiece". As far as I know, the only song on Tusk without the rest of the band is Save Me A Place.(and that one you liked). So I don't think your facts are correct. If I'm wrong, please, let someone say that I'm wrong. Frankly, :D I'm quite sure I'm not.

IMO: all the songs of every songwriter are self-indulgent: From Rumours until now, the three songwriters (now two) take their own perspective into the band-environment. And from then on, Lindsey arranges them into "typical Mac", using the four (now three) other forces and their typical qualities in full respect.
So, for me, The term self-indulgence as an argument to disqualify songs is just like saying nothing, I don't think it has any weight. Especially in the environment like a band called FM, with so much individual quality in a true chemistry. And to my ears, Tusk is a batch of songs that use their specific qualities towards eachother to shine. It's an entity. The two only mac-related albums that come close to self-indulgence are Peter Green's The End Of The Game, and Lindsey's Go Insane.
And those are exceptionally good, too.

And, If you like IKINW, and say that NTF is pure cacaphonic, I think you're missing something: Those songs are one-egg-twins.


Okay, and now, for g*ds sake, I'm gonna type that friggin' sentence again. But short: IMHO.


:wavey:

gerald

P.S: But I'm glad that finally someone actually posts in this thread an answer to the original question, so you do have more rights to post in this thread than I do, to be honest. ;)

[77Rumours77]

I really HATEE "not that funny" EWWWWWWW :shocked:

[wondergirl9847]

WTH songs AREN'T self-indulgent?!?! Songs are written by HUMANS. :rolleyes:

I am so sick of hearing that word along with cheesy and whiney.

Stevie, Lindsey, Christine, Peter, Danny, etc...wrote from their heart...if that is self-indulgent, then by crap, I LOVE self-indulgent music. Sue me.

[sodascouts]

WARNING: THIS POST DOES SOME MAJOR DISSING I WILL LATER APOLOGIZE FOR.


When I first was getting into the Mac back in 1998, I bought the Dance first, then the Greatest Hits, then loved 'em so much I went to buy the back catalog. Rumours first, then the WA because the guy at the counter told me he thought it was better than Rumours, and I was loving this band so much that I went ahead and splurged. I then proceeded to be extremely disappointed in the non-live version of ISA and Landslide but that's another story, lol.

After buying all these and taking a break to save up a little money, I bought Tusk.... and I was stunned. In a bad way. "What happened? Did Lindsey run out of time and not finish any of his songs? And why are Stevie's songs so schmaltzy, self-indulgent [sorry Christy], and dull?" Yes, that's right, I didn't get into ANY of Stevie's songs except Sara and Angel, or any of Lindsey's except That's Enough for Me and I Know I'm Not Wrong. (Obviously, Gerald, it is not freakish to like IKINW and not NTF. IKINW is more melodic by far - less screaming and pounding. Don't let thematic similarity equate the sounds of the songs for you. Of course when I heard the shared verse I was unimpressed with the thematic similarity and only thought 'Can't the guy at least think of different lyrics for his songs?') Those were the only songs that I instantly liked, and along with Think About Me and Never Make Me Cry from Christine, I liked 6 out of 20 songs.

Now that I've thoroughly disgusted and alienated all of Tusk's fans, I want to say that after giving the songs another chance, and continuing to play them, I found myself starting to find Lindsey's songs more and more appealing. They would get stuck in my head and I would find myself humming them at odd moments, lol. This is true for everything he did on there except The Ledge (which I can't stand to this day, and I believe putting it first affected how negatively I viewed the rest of his songs) and NTF. I never really got into the rest of Christine's songs, but it's impossible to HATE anything she did with the exception of the incredibly corny Never Forget.

Stevie's songs it took me a little longer to like, simply because it was harder to get over the hump of how much I originally felt they dragged. But eventually, instead of rolling my eyes that Stevie was once again riding the mystical hobby horse in SOTM, I realized how awesome that guitar solo was. Once I looked past BC's nonsensical lyrical progression from the child as the lover to the child as Stevie, I realized how beautiful it really was melodically.

Well, all that really answered the question, didn't it? lol I think my opinion was a "Mainstream" one and that most casual listeners felt the same way. I believe they didn't give the album the second chance I did, and didn't get over that initial shock that colors the whole album. If FM had put the popularly appealing stuff first and then gotten into the rest, it would have been better. Of course perhaps Lindsey was afraid no one would ever play the last half of the album, so he had to intersperse his more unusual stuff throughout, lol. And I believe they've made the same mistake on SYW - putting Murrow and Illume first was idiotic, IMHO. First impressions are the most memorable.

[Hippocampus]

So on Say You Will the band paid him back: " Sorry for our solo-in-bands-time-bullsh*t back then,you may do the same as on Tusk because in hindsight you were right, it is an artistic masterpiece". As far as I know, the only song on Tusk without the rest of the band is Save Me A Place.(and that one you liked). So I don't think your facts are correct. If I'm wrong, please, let someone say that I'm wrong. Frankly, :D I'm quite sure I'm not.

Well I could be wrong of course but I do remember reading somewhere that Lindsey played all the instruments and did all the vocals on most of his Tusk songs. Quoting the liner notes: "some tracks recorded by Lindsey Buckingham at home". No three part harmonies to be heard...
That's what I was calling self-indulgence. Not the songs themselves but one band member going completely solo with his material on a Fleetwood Mac album.

On SYW it's a completely different story. Mick and John did their thing on Lindsey's tunes and Stevie's vocals were stamped on quite a few numbers. Nothing to do with Tusk.



And, If you like IKINW, and say that NTF is pure cacaphonic, I think you're missing something: Those songs are one-egg-twins.

I won't paraphrase Nancy's post in regards to this as I completely agree with her. They sound quite different to me :)


WTH songs AREN'T self-indulgent?!?! Songs are written by HUMANS. :rolleyes:

I am so sick of hearing that word along with cheesy and whiney.

Stevie, Lindsey, Christine, Peter, Danny, etc...wrote from their heart...if that is self-indulgent, then by crap, I LOVE self-indulgent music. Sue me.


I never said Lindsey didn't write from the heart or that his SONGS were self-indulgent. No need to get convulsive over it, please do take a pill. :rolleyes: I was simply saying that, in my opinion, Lindsey went overboard with his material in the sense that it wasn't a group effort but just Lindsey.

:shrug:

[wondergirl9847]

My post wasn't directed to you or anyone in particular. I was just saying, in general, since we've all discussed self-indulgence before. In fact, it's probably better that I put that in the frustrated thread. :laugh:

I'm frustrated with lots of things, that being one of them.

Sorry I sounded like I snapped at ya. Had a tough week.

[David]

Well I could be wrong of course but I do remember reading somewhere that Lindsey played all the instruments and did all the vocals on most of his Tusk songs. Quoting the liner notes: "some tracks recorded by Lindsey Buckingham at home". No three part harmonies to be heard...
That's what I was calling self-indulgence. Not the songs themselves but one band member going completely solo with his material on a Fleetwood Mac album.I believe you're right about Lindsey's having recorded several of his "Tusk" tracks completely on his own. But that's not to say that three-part harmonies are entirely absent. Most of his "Tusk" songs have vocal harmonies -- very beautiful ones, in fact. It's just that the harmonies are all his.

It's a fair point for fans to deplore the un-bandlike qualities of much of Lindsey's material on "Tusk." He did ask to be able to pull many of his songs together on his own for that album, & they apparently agreed. But when you stop to consider how fractured the group situation had become by 1986 when "Tango" was being recorded -- & about how Lindsey was in effect forced to compensate for the others' unwillingness or inability to participate by creating intricate textures designed to help "hide" the situation -- it ain't all that different from "Tusk"! I would say that "Tango" has every bit as much (if not more) instrumentation & vocal work performed by Buckingham alone.

Stevie, for example: Stevie's "spirit" (or whatever you want to call it) is a lot more prevalent on "Tusk" than on "Tango." For all we know, Stevie & Chris may not have even heard something like "Caroline" until the album came out.

[Sugar]

I like Lindsey's songs on Tusk, although I admit it took me a little while to warm up to them. Don't know if that's age or just time with the music, but I've had the album for about 20 years so God knows I've had time! :laugh:

Their unconventionality makes them hard to relate to at first; sometimes you're too busy going "WTF" to listen to what's happening in the music. But now I think they're so melodious and emotive, and I think they're a REAL good snapshot as to what was going on in Lindsey at the time. The in-your-face sexuality of "Not That Funny" and "Tusk" to the bitterness of "WMYTYTO" and "The Ledge" to more plantive numbers like "Save Me a Place" and "IKINW" I think more than show his conflictions with a certain blonde chick. ;) I think professional conflicts are evident in "That's All for Everyone", "Save Me a Place", and "Walk a Thin Line".

But aside from all that, it's probably what you bring to the music as well. I know I can relate to that bitterness of "WMYTYTO" (especially what you hear in live versions) and the sarcasm of "The Ledge" as well as to the introspection of "Walk a Thin Line" and "That's All For Everyone". "Tusk" is actually the song of his I like least, along with "That's Enough For Me".

Self-indulgent? Probably, but an artist has to be, plain and simple. You have to be a slave to the muse or else it's just a hobby. Egotistic? Ditto to that to. He probably recorded that way because he was either in the throes of it at the time or because he didn't feel like explaining his goofy ideas to the rest of the band, having to explain it and argue about it...it was just easier to do it himself, godamnit! :lol:

The "Tusk" songs just sing right to my heart... :cool:

[Hawkeye]

I'm with you Christy on people and Self Indulgent. What exactly does this mean. People have said the only problem with OOTC is it's Self Indulgent. And yeah it is if you mean he adds guitar solos at the end of basically every song on there but who cares. To me Self Indulgent is a good thing.

[Johnny Stew]

WTH songs AREN'T self-indulgent?!?! Songs are written by HUMANS. :rolleyes:

Stevie, Lindsey, Christine, Peter, Danny, etc...wrote from their heart...if that is self-indulgent, then by crap, I LOVE self-indulgent music. Sue me.

Self-indulgent? Probably, but an artist has to be, plain and simple. You have to be a slave to the muse or else it's just a hobby.

Amen. :D :nod:

[dissention]

My post wasn't directed to you or anyone in particular. I was just saying, in general, since we've all discussed self-indulgence before. In fact, it's probably better that I put that in the frustrated thread. :laugh:

I'm frustrated with lots of things, that being one of them.

Sorry I sounded like I snapped at ya. Had a tough week.

I completely agree, Christy, but not when it comes to "Ghosts" and "That Made Me Stronger." I mean, c'mon. Those are nauseating. :laugh:

[Hippocampus]

Sorry I sounded like I snapped at ya. Had a tough week.

No offense taken and no harm done :)

[sodascouts]

I completely agree, Christy, but not when it comes to "Ghosts" and "That Made Me Stronger." I mean, c'mon. Those are nauseating. :laugh:

Definitely cringe-worthy.

[shackin'up]

I don't know for sure, but I thought that lindsey recorded all those tracks at home and THEN took them back into the bandenvironment. I'm sure that Mick's drumming is on WMYTYTO, johns' bass,too? I'm quite sure Mick plays on NTF, and the whole band's on Tusk. Is there anybody out there who can quote the right sources to prove I'm not wrong here? And what about the other songs? I really think I recently read (in an old article?) that Save Me A Place was the only "lindsey only"-song in the definite version of the album. So, anybody? Les?

It annoys me that that "lindsey worked on his own during Tusk"-argument pops up everytime (nothing personal, hippocampus :lol:), and I really want that straightened out, or at least get some nuances on that.

:wavey:

gerald


edit: okay, I'm gonna take this question over to the Lindsey-side....

[Hawkeye]

and the whole band's on Tusk.

Literally. The whole USC marching band's on Tusk :lol:

[Johnny Stew]

I completely agree, Christy, but not when it comes to "Ghosts" and "That Made Me Stronger." I mean, c'mon. Those are nauseating. :laugh:

Definitely cringe-worthy.

(I'm running the risk of starting another pages-long debate, but here I go again....)

I'm not the biggest fan of "That Made Me Stronger," but I think "Ghosts" is beautiful, and ranks right up there with some of Stevie's best ballads.

In my opinion, both songs accomplish exactly what they're supposed to: they reflect Stevie's emotions at the time she wrote them. They're basically diary pages, so of course they're going to be "self-indulgent."
And songs like that will always be "nauseating" and "cringe-worthy" to some, because it's nearly impossible to accurately and honestly reflect those particular emotions in a song, without turning at least some people off.

And I still think the following "Ghosts" lyric is brilliant, even though I know some folks think it's corny and/or unrelatable: "To fill the empty spaces she's feeling, she depends on her music like a husband... and she knows it's no good to fall in love again."

Moves me everytime I hear it. :)

But it's ok... we can't all like the same things, or be moved by the same things, otherwise the world (and these boards) would be a boring place indeed. :)

[strandinthewind]

ITA agree that Ghosts is to me just brilliant. TMMS is oksy and its a great sentiment. I just think the chorus is too literal for my liking. But I think even "bad" Stevie, LB, CM, or FM is better than 99% of the other stuff out there :cool:

[Hawkeye]

I love Ghosts right up until the she depends on her music like a husband bridge thing. But I lvoe the first 2 minutes of the song. The whole Ghosts of what you want thing is great.

And That Made Me Stronger, that song is so danmed literal it's nausiating. It's straight out of what she said all those interviews leading up to TISL. I guess this is one case of self indulgence beiong too much :laugh:

[Hawkeye]

But I could never be a huge fan of a group that did catchy pop tunes. .


I don't see how someone can consider Rumours catchy pop tunes. They really aren't at all. A band like Journy, Styz or REO speedwagon make catchy pop tunes, Rumours is not that. The only songs that even come close to fitting that discription is Don't Stop and Dreams. GYOW, The Chain, GDW, Oh Daddy and Songbird are all far from catchy pop tunes.

[DownOnRodeo]

Am I right in understanding that you think a group of songs is better off being non-catchy?

Rumours is pretty esoteric, but it was also uber-crafted and catchy, and it suffered for that.

[DownOnRodeo]

No, music is not necessarily better off being non-catchy. By that I assume we're referring to a product that is confined by the structures of those that were popular before it and one which is easily accessible to, and accepted by, a mass population, as opposed to the literal intepretation of the phrase.

I thought catchy meant a song was hooky and you hum it in the shower. Are we talking about the same thing?
:]

[face of glass]

I understand what he was going for but the overall effort comes off to my ears as wanting to be experimental for the sake of it, to steer away from the "Rumours formula" to prove he's more than "corporate rock".

For me there’s nothing “experimental for the sake of it” attitude in Tusk. Yes, Lindsey did state that he loved recording those vocal tracks on his knees “because it sounded weird!” but in the rest I truly can not see it.

But that’s because of my background; after years of listening to the underground acts and the experimental de-rigeur, I can safely say that everything Lindsey does on Tusk is accessible and, although it might not find its audience from the average Rumours-buyers, it would find its audience from the underground, from the new wave that was emerging at the time. The freakish guitar onslaught of “Not That Funny” is child’s play when compared to anything Sonic Youth did in the ‘80s. So the experimental attitude didn’t jump at me first. What worked for me was the emotion that he managed to convey through the tunes.

He didn’t want Chris or Stevie to harmonize on his songs for a long time because he wanted to believe that they could be successes without them. And it was one of the biggest reasons for Rumours’ success, as were the biting lyrics. The lyrics on Tusk may be more biting for some but in my opinion they’ve been intentionally shrouded and sung so that some of them are incomprehensible. Clearly the focus is not just on the lyrical message.

This is clearly not a team effort, it's complete self-indulgence and I can understand why the others told him it would be the last time he'd go solo on the band's time.

Let’s not forget that there was an example for this in Fleetwood Mac already, what with Peter Green recording their “ultimate classic” “Oh Well” solely on his own with only the recorder solo being played by his girlfriend.

[Ponders a theory for a while. It’s not self-indulgence if he doesn’t credit it for himself, it’s self-indulgence if the album sleeve said: -Fleetwood Mac with seven tracks of Lindsey Buckingham solo- or –Lindsey Buckingham featuring Fleetwood Mac-. But now that he’s releasing it as a Fleetwood Mac album he gets more sales and gets to be self-indulgent secretly. HA! What a genius!]

Ok. I don’t believe that. Lindsey spoke of getting to more esoteric places when he recorded the material on his own. And I believe that he was right in taking this direction.

The tunes on Tusk are all about himself; his childishness and his naïve belief in the artistic expression. Their clumsiness and their self-centeredness are what make them so charming for me. The man appears more human in there than any group player and that was his way to take all that room. For many people Stevie Nicks was the main focus point in her own songs; they ignored the group playing that very often gave Stevie all the room to shine. Lindsey doesn’t have such performance abilities so it was natural for him to take up all that space in the recording sphere wherein his main weapon lies.

If Lindsey had started to play fast solos, ridiculously complex drum patterns (which he couldn’t do anyway) etc, then that would have been far more self-indulgent for me.

He chose this way because he always does what he thinks is the best for the song itself. Not because he wants to show us his instrumental prowess.

I think my opinion was a "Mainstream" one and that most casual listeners felt the same way. I believe they didn't give the album the second chance I did, and didn't get over that initial shock that colors the whole album.

While I agree with the crux of your post, in that Rumours is more accessible than Tusk in certain ways because its instruments are stated with more clarity where necessary, I still insist that Tusk is in no way totally inaccessible or “weird-for-weird’s-sake”. What it suffered from was mainly the fact that FM had established a core audience all of which could never have given Tusk a proper chance. The recording approaches and the quirkiness came from the punk/new wave bands and in those circles Tusk would have been perfectly accessible. It was just released by a band that was supposed to be the anti-thesis of punk, that’s all.

Anything on Tusk is worthy of “Go Your Own Way” in songwriting, it’s just been recorded and arranged in a different way.

If FM had put the popularly appealing stuff first and then gotten into the rest, it would have been better. Of course perhaps Lindsey was afraid no one would ever play the last half of the album, so he had to intersperse his more unusual stuff throughout, lol. And I believe they've made the same mistake on SYW - putting Murrow and Illume first was idiotic, IMHO. First impressions are the most memorable.

And this is another thing I don’t approve of. I understand your intentions but I personally love it when all the diverse-sounding material is sitting there next to each other. That’s what made the Rumours FM stand out for me first; that they can make their records sound real smooth and there’s still this quirkiness going on. That they can have “WTWCT” and “Murrow”, “Peacekeeper” and “Come”, next to each other and make it seem like it’s natural changes of mood in the human mind. I dislike the fact that albums should be like radio stations in that people shouldn’t be shocked by anything in there, that there should be certain boxes the music should be put into. Albums should reflect life itself, which is never about one or two certain moods. I’m glad Lindsey still thinks that way but then again you can all fight back with your programmable CD-players. ;)

[Cammie]

:xoxo: Kisses to Lindsey for The TUSKER Album!!!:blob2:
:wavey:Soo..."No one said Nothin'!!!":p Brilliant!:D Sky:laugh: