Japanese Hostages in Iraq

[DownOnRodeo]

Some idiots have 3 Japanese civilians hostage, threatening to burn them alive unless Koizumi withdraws the Japanese humanitarian 'force' within three days.

What the hell is going on? :mad:

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Some idiots have 3 Japanese civilians hostage, threatening to burn them alive unless Koizumi withdraws the Japanese humanitarian 'force' within three days.

What the hell is going on? :mad:

The idea of burning people alive is absolutely disgusting.

I'll tag on the question, What are your opinions on negotiating with terrorists?

- Jake

[dissention]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
What the hell is going on? :mad:

The US is pissing off everyone even more with their increasingly imperialistic behavior. ;)

Unfortunately, Japan said they won't give in to the demands. These people will die. :(

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by dissention
The US is pissing off everyone even more with their increasingly imperialistic behavior. ;)

Unfortunately, Japan said they won't give in to the demands. These people will die. :(

I'm not sure this links directly to hatred of the US. Obviously we top their list, but they are holding other nations accountable as well.

If I may play devil's advocate, do we want to send terrorists the message that their more extreme tactics and threats will work?(Not arguing for either side, just asking)

- Jake

[dissention]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
I'm not sure this links directly to hatred of the US. Obviously we top their list, but they are holding other nations accountable as well.

Not at all. What I'm saying is that if the US wasn't so greedy and oil-thirsty, we wouldn't be in this mess that we're currently in and innocent civilians wouldn't be burned alive and mosque compounds full of children wouldn't be bombed and shot at. And the Iraqi's wouldn't be poisoned with depleted uranium. And their cars wouldn't be steamrolled over because they looted wood for fire while cocky soldiers laughed and smiled. And Halliburton wouldn't automatically get oil contracts and then embezzle from the taxpayers that are already footing the bill for this joke of a war. The list goes on and on and on.

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by dissention
Not at all. What I'm saying is that if the US wasn't so greedy and oil-thirsty, we wouldn't be in this mess that we're currently in and innocent civilians wouldn't be burned alive and mosque compounds full of children wouldn't be bombed and shot at. And the Iraqi's wouldn't be poisoned with depleted uranium. And their cars wouldn't be steamrolled over because they looted wood for fire while cocky soldiers laughed and smiled. And Halliburton wouldn't automatically get oil contracts and then embezzle from the taxpayers that are already footing the bill for this joke of a war. The list goes on and on and on.

I think it's high time you got off the fence and picked a side, dissention. Do you or don't you support this war?:cool:

- Jake

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Some idiots have 3 Japanese civilians hostage, threatening to burn them alive unless Koizumi withdraws the Japanese humanitarian 'force' within three days.

What the hell is going on? :mad:

Asshole unelected Neocon political administration. Rumsfeld, Cheney. Grrrrr. Will be evicted shortly. Unitl then...:(

[dissention]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
I think it's high time you got off the fence and picked a side, dissention. Do you or don't you support this war?:cool:

- Jake

I sat on the fence and got a splinter up my ass. Why do you think I'm so bitchy? ;)

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by dissention
Why do you think I'm so bitchy? ;)

How long do we have?
We're still trying to get to the root of Marissa's moods.

- Jake

[dissention]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
How long do we have?
We're still trying to get to the root of Marissa's moods.

- Jake

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If Bush is re-elected, four more years. ;)

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by dissention
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If Bush is re-elected, four more years. ;)

Wow, are you promising a personality change if he's out?
That should Rock the Vote!
Excuse me while I change into my flag.;)

- Jake

[DeeGeMe]

Bush must go and we need to change the name of our little military operation over there into Operation Let's Get the Hell Out While We Still Can. That being said, no nation should ever negotiate with terrorists-ever. I don't want to see those folks burned alive but if the Japanese give into their demands, it will only result in more innocents being kidnapped. Do you sacrifice three now to save 100 on-down the line? That's a tough question and one I'm glad that I'm not responsible for answering.

[estranged4life]

2 Americans, 1 Canadian, 1 Briton & 2 Italians now as hostages...Not a good sign, not a good one at all.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4684713/

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
The idea of burning people alive is absolutely disgusting.

I'll tag on the question, What are your opinions on negotiating with terrorists?

- Jake

Moreover, it is DIRECTLY against the word of Allah - who said it was wrong to harm the body of the your neighbor's dead dog - or something like that.

[DeeGeMe]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Moreover, it is DIRECTLY against the word of Allah - who said it was wrong to harm the body of the your neighbor's dead dog - or something like that.

LOL! These folks don't seem to buy the party line that Islam is a religion of peace, do they?

[strandinthewind]

Nope - they sure do not. they are like a pack of feral dogs. I think this is somewhat dispositive of what we are up against. A wild, highly religious, uneduated people whose goals are not in any way related to the goals of the US people in that the US people for the most part want peace and we sort of take democracy for granted or at least have become complacent with it. Conversley, the common Iraqi has been severely repressed socially, economically, in their education - they turn to their religion and its leaders for instruction. Their religious leader across the different religions see this time as the time to seize power. Thus, some of the apparently disingenuous religious, power hungry ones are setting the wnwashed and uneducated masses out for blood.

I pray in my heart and to God this can be changed. Otherwise, this is just the beginning. :(

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
Not at all. What I'm saying is that if the US wasn't so greedy and oil-thirsty, we wouldn't be in this mess that we're currently in and innocent civilians wouldn't be burned alive and mosque compounds full of children wouldn't be bombed and shot at. And the Iraqi's wouldn't be poisoned with depleted uranium. .

Looks like they're not the only ones...

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA8G56VUSD.html

Soldiers Sick Since Return From Iraq Complain About Army's Response to Uranium Concerns

By Verena Dobnik Associated Press Writer
Published: Apr 9, 2004


NEW YORK (AP) - Six soldiers who have fallen ill since their return from Iraq said Friday that the Army ignored their complaints about uranium poisoning from U.S. weapons fired during combat.
They also said they were denied testing for the radioactive substance.

"We were all healthy when we left home. Now, I suffer from headaches, fatigue, dizziness, blood in the urine, unexplained rashes," said Sgt. Jerry Ojeda, 28, who was stationed south of Baghdad with other National Guard members of the 442nd Military Police Company.

He said symptoms also include shortness of breath, migraines and nausea.

Sgt. Herbert Reed, 50, said that when a dozen soldiers asked for treatment last fall, they initially were turned away.

Three of them persisted and were tested in December, said Reed, who has yet to receive his results.

The soldiers held a news conference at Ojeda's home, joined by Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., who said he would work to get the victims extended health benefits after they are discharged.

Five of the men said they also were recently tested independently by Dr. Asaf Durakovic, a former Army doctor and nuclear medicine expert, who found traces of depleted uranium in their bloodstream, with four registering high levels.

After their return from Iraq, "the Army was unfortunately not cooperative when they asked for testing," Schumer said.

In Washington, an Army spokeswoman, Cynthia Smith, said that the military would test any soldier who expressed concerns about uranium exposure.

The men said that Army officials are now testing urine samples they supplied. Results are expected in about three weeks.

Since the start of the Iraq war, U.S. forces reportedly have fired at least 120 tons of shells packed with depleted uranium.

Depleted uranium, which is left over from the process of enriching uranium for use as nuclear fuel, is an extremely dense material that the U.S. and British militaries use for tank armor and armor-piercing weapons. It is far less radioactive than natural uranium.

Veterans started reporting health problems as a result of depleted uranium shells in 1991, after the first Gulf War.

Some experts believe the nuclear component used in warfare is practically harmless, while others blame depleted uranium for cancers and other illnesses

[strandinthewind]

and this isn't Nam II :rolleyes:

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
[B]

[QUOTE]"We were all healthy when we left home. Now, I suffer from headaches, fatigue, dizziness, blood in the urine, unexplained rashes," said Sgt. Jerry Ojeda, 28, who was stationed south of Baghdad with other National Guard members of the 442nd Military Police Company.

He said symptoms also include shortness of breath, migraines and nausea.

From my experience with having to complete a "Radiation Safety" course for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) for certification in the N.D.T. (Non-Destructive Testing) field of "Radiography" (Which is the use of X-Rays for detection of errors/cracks for objects in field of oil refinery, such as pipe lines, pipe fittings, etc.) it definitely sounds like over exposure to moderate amounts of radiative material...

We were trained that after working your "radiographic camera" that if you start to feel ill, Even after checking your film badge to see if you were possibly exposed to radiation, that you are to report any illness immediately, Even if it later appears to be a false alarm (And you are actually ill from a legitimate means, ie-the flu.). "It's better to be safe than sorry" and very dead...

After their return from Iraq, "the Army was unfortunately not cooperative when they asked for testing," Schumer said.

As my older brother, Who served in the US Army would say, <b>F.T.A.</b>...It's rather <b>self explanatory</b> :laugh:

Some experts believe the nuclear component used in warfare is practically harmless, while others blame depleted uranium for cancers and other illnesses

Gee, We were always taught in Tech. School that if it the radiography material is radioactive or of a nuclear source, You treat it as such until you are able to configure the half life of the radioactive material and approach all safety prodicals...It is NEVER "practically harmless" as these "experts" believe.

I wonder if the government will try to stonewall this and say it is nothing?

[DownOnRodeo]

One of the three Japanese aid workers actually came to Iraq because of the Uranium poisoning issue and how concerned he was for those Iraqis who would be affected.

And now he's tied up at gunpoint being threatened with being burnt alive, by the same people he came across the globe to help.

It reminds me of the penultimate act in Big Brother and makes you wonder whether, if he does survive, whether he'll have any motiviation left in his spirit of humanitarian activism.

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Looks like they're not the only ones...

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA8G56VUSD.html

Soldiers Sick Since Return From Iraq Complain About Army's Response to Uranium Concerns


It isn't just the soldiers in Iraq, it's the ones from Afghanistan, too. They released twice the amount of depleted uranium in Afghanistan than the did in Iraq, so just imagine the heartaches the people and troops of that country will suffer. What they're doing is taking the bullets and soaking them in the actual uranium. You all want to know who has the WMDs? We do and we're using them every day. It's called depleted uranium.

Read these, it'll tell you everything:

http://www.thepowerhour.com/articles/du_effects.htm

http://gulfwarvets.com/du_1.htm

Also, Shrub was found guilty of war crimes for his use of depleted uranium in Afghanistan. :wavey: He can join the ranks of Oliver North.

Check out:

http://www.gulfwarvets.com

if you want to know what really goes on, too. It's run by veteran groups and it is absolutely SHOCKING. I cried when I came across it last week. Click on "Documents" and "Hot Info."

[dissention]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
One of the three Japanese aid workers actually came to Iraq because of the Uranium poisoning issue and how concerned he was for those Iraqis who would be affected.


The Japanese are the ones who found Bush guilty of war crimes because of his use of depleted uranium in Afghainstan. That's why I'm so amazed that they aren't pulling out.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by dissention
The Japanese are the ones who found Bush guilty of war crimes because of his use of depleted uranium in Afghainstan. That's why I'm so amazed that they aren't pulling out.
I looked through the WarVets site and didn't find anything about this. Could you tell a little bit more? Was it a Japan-based NGO group who made the finding?

I'm guessing that it was an NGO, and in that case it's not surprising that its finding was never a factor in Koizumi's decision to join the coalition. No, the government had to send their school-repairers in military fatigues in order to appear to be contributing flesh to the cause. I don't suggest that Japan should go back to just giving money to PKOs - it is time for them to deploy people if they chose to regardless of the Constitutional difficulties. But sending road-builders and school-repairers to Iraq dressed as combatants?! It was a political stunt to suck up to Bush and now it's backfired.

[dissention]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
I looked through the WarVets site and didn't find anything about this. Could you tell a little bit more? Was it a Japan-based NGO group who made the finding?

It was a citizens tribunal. They had five judges, a couple of them were British, and they went on eight trips to Afghainstan to find out as much as possible. To my knowledge, they had 21 public hearings.

Here are some great articles on their findings:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040314a5.htm

http://www.opednews.com/arvey031604_bush_war_Crimes.htm

AND - here is the actual 74 page document of the findings (I would read all of it, it's worth it):

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5855.htm (check out article 19, it has the recommendations and they're FANTASTIC)

Also, if you go to the WarVets site, click "Documents" and look at the very last document at the bottom of the page. Some of it is among the most shocking things I've read in my lifetime.

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
Do you sacrifice three now to save 100 on-down the line? That's a tough question and one I'm glad that I'm not responsible for answering.

I think this is one of the toughest questions any politician can grapple with.:(

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Moreover, it is DIRECTLY against the word of Allah - who said it was wrong to harm the body of the your neighbor's dead dog - or something like that.

Allah's teachings have nothing to do with these monsters.

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
Operation Let's Get the Hell Out While We Still Can.

Such a pretty name for a Stevie song.:nod:

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by estranged4life
I wonder if the government will try to stonewall this and say it is nothing?

Have they been up-front with resolving the health issues from the Gulf War?:distress:

- Jake

[DeeGeMe]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Nope - they sure do not. they are like a pack of feral dogs. I think this is somewhat dispositive of what we are up against. A wild, highly religious, uneduated people whose goals are not in any way related to the goals of the US people in that the US people for the most part want peace and we sort of take democracy for granted or at least have become complacent with it. Conversley, the common Iraqi has been severely repressed socially, economically, in their education - they turn to their religion and its leaders for instruction. Their religious leader across the different religions see this time as the time to seize power. Thus, some of the apparently disingenuous religious, power hungry ones are setting the wnwashed and uneducated masses out for blood.

I pray in my heart and to God this can be changed. Otherwise, this is just the beginning. :(

The best quote I read was that we had to realize we were fighting a people who hated us more than they loved life and were truly and totally willing to die for their cause, as we saw on 9/11.

[DeeGeMe]

And the latest news is that now they've got an American. An Australian film crew has got the videos of the guy being hauled off in a car with armed gunmen.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Allah's teachings have nothing to do with these monsters.

- Jake

True - very true. BUT, alot of this is being done in the name of Allah and is being called for by rogue clerics. To be fair, many senior cerics are horrified by this and are screaming about Allah's teachings and how they specifically prohibit this conduct.

Sadly, in a very small way, the intolerance and unbeding quest for power by the radical religious groups reminds me the current WH and the political climate in the US. Granted the US is not near as bad. But, the general thought line of religious intolerance is the same.

[jwd]

DownOnRodeo:

What the hell is going on?


Seems like some Iraqis want to keep Hussein's traditions alive. :distress:

I pray for the safe release of those hostages and others.