Something Lindsey should keep in mind

[chiliD]

The Beatles recorded their entire Please Please Me album in ONE DAY.

See, Lindsey? It CAN be done!! :laugh:

[4Buck]

Maybe 'cause the Beatles had four musical geniuses: Lennon, McCartney, Harrison and producer George Martin, (sorry, Ringo!) ...
and Fleetwood Mac only has one: Buckingham. :)

How long did each Beatle take to make a solo album?

Lux?

[4Buck]

I'll answer my own question....

Looks like the solo Beatles came out with albums annually....till their later years when more competition required more time to achieve perfection (which is debatable if they ever actually achieved this). :)

Harrison's last album, before his recent farewell disc was recorded in the late '80s, wasn't it? A big spread there.....

[face of glass]

Originally posted by chiliD
The Beatles recorded their entire Please Please Me album in ONE DAY.

See, Lindsey? It CAN be done!! :laugh:

Yes, and everyone's holding that one up as their big masterpiece in studio experimentation, aren't they? ;)

Ok, Sgt. Pepper took about nine months.

Is he really that slow? Didn't the real work for Out Of The Cradle start in 1989 (sure you could say that he recycled a few TITN ideas but creative recycling ain't easy, as we know :nod: )

If Gift Of Screws started around 1995 then I would presume he had it finished at some point in 1999 and he did The Dance in between.

Stevie gave her at least ten songs for producing in 2001 and those took about a year and a half.

So he's slow. But he's not that slow. You want albums quickly out of the production line? You always have Splinter Group for that. ;)

[CarneVaca]

He's pretty slow. Waaaay slow.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by face of glass
So he's slow. But he's not that slow.


Hell yes he is. I will bet that moreso than not he agonizes over crap that he eventually goes back and uses his original idea after months of f*ing around.

Fleetwood Mac's "white album" was recorded in 6 weeks...that's a more realistic time-frame.

Originally posted by 4Buck
Harrison's last album, before his recent farewell disc was recorded in the late '80s, wasn't it? A big spread there...

George only wrote & recorded when he wanted to...once he set his mind to recording an album, it didn't take him very long. Even a studio junkie like Jeff Lynne doesn't take very long to get the sounds he strives for.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by chiliD
Hell yes he is. I will bet that moreso than not he agonizes over crap that he eventually goes back and uses his original idea after months of f*ing around.

As we say in the South "Bless his heart" he just can't help it - "You know he's a little touched" :laugh:

As for FM FM, I think "they" were able to control him because he was the new guy on the block - after that however :laugh:

In the end, the music is always brilliant. So, I guess it takes what it takes :cool:

[4Buck]

[/I]George only wrote & recorded when he wanted to...once he set his mind to recording an album, it didn't take him very long. Even a studio junkie like Jeff Lynne doesn't take very long to get the sounds he strives for.

Funny how we all want all this work done by our favorite band, while we're all - my self included - enjoying ourselves on here. :laugh:

Harrison didn't play every instrument, reproduce his own background vocals or do his own engineering the way Buckingham could.. All those take a lot of time. GH needed Lynne. He was the brains. Harrison even struggled with a few rapid riffs in his guitar repertoire :eek: ....George had his own distinctive "slide" style, but Buck could play rings around him....


[i]Originally posted by strandinthewind

As for FM FM, I think "they" were able to control him (LB) because he was the new guy on the block - after that however :laugh:

In the end, the music is always brilliant. So, I guess it takes what it takes :cool: :nod:

[CarneVaca]

John went through a long stretch without inspiration. Then he went sailing and started writing again. Out of that spurt came Beautiful Boy and Watching the Wheels. And that's enough for me.

In a way, I still miss John.

[4Buck]

....No you're not, Lux....

My next door neighbor is 16 and she's a big Beatle fan, thanks to her parents. :)

My favorite Beatle is John Lennon. But I like his "fat Elvis" period the best, ( '65 through early '66). My mom likes 1964. (However, the solo work both you and Carne Vaca mentioned is exceptional.) Lennon has ("has" in the present tense) one of the best rock 'n roll voices, and is a gifted songwriter.

Buckingham is a totally different vocalist, but I love his voice, as well. (Happy to see you had a great "close encounter" with him!) I don't like McCartney's. It's just too weak, IMO.

I know Buckingham credits Lennon's first solo album as a big musical influence for him.......I think Yoko really whipped Lennon into submission, though.... His best solo work, IMO, was when he was with May Pang -- His lost weekend...... He was freeeee then.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by 4Buck
Harrison didn't play every instrument, reproduce his own background vocals or do his own engineering the way Buckingham could.. All those take a lot of time. GH needed Lynne. He was the brains. Harrison even struggled with a few rapid riffs in his guitar repertoire :eek: ....George had his own distinctive "slide" style, but Buck could play rings around him....


That's a load of crap...a BIG load of crap. George didn't play everything because he didn't HAVE to, NEED to, or WANT to. Harrison didn't NEED Jeff Lynne, either; the friendship and working relationship worked between the two of 'em, but it wasn't co-dependent...Harrison was a TEAM player...something Buckingham will never EVER get a clue about.

Lindsey did everything because he obviously has some sort of "control" issues. Out Of The Cradle was a masterpiece IN SPITE of itself. Just think how much BETTER it would've been had it not been such an ego-trip.


BTW, George could bury Lindsey in a sitar duel. :laugh:

[snwriter]

Chili is so right here. Lindsey has too many control and perfectionist issues.

Holding OOTC and GOS back for so long doesn't help him or his fans in the long run. Life is just way too short.

Besides, sometimes the ridiculous amount of overtime he spends on tracks results in them sounding too produced.

Regardless of what people say about OOTC, it would have SOLD more if some of the songs didn't have the "glisteny" Christmas music-sound, sort of like "You and I" on TITN.

LB's SYW sound is much better. Much more rough. He should stick with that sound.

And he doesn't need all the decades he takes to get it. Mick and even John can help him keep that sound.

And despite all the knocks Stevie takes, she has control over sound too. Just look at the similarities between the Rumours outtake "Planets", presumably overlooked by Lindsey, and the John Shanks-produced version on TISL.

[CarneVaca]

I don't think SYW is any less glossy than Cradle. In some places, I think it is more.

[face of glass]

Originally posted by chiliD
Harrison was a TEAM player...something Buckingham will never EVER get a clue about.

It’s his persona. You don’t like it, you stick with Fumble Fingers. :lol:

Lindsey did everything because he obviously has some sort of "control" issues. Out Of The Cradle was a masterpiece IN SPITE of itself. Just think how much BETTER it would've been had it not been such an ego-trip.

And just think how much *ss Peter Green could kick these days if he lost some of that “I’m so humble and unworthy of playing the blues” schtick. ;)

(Yeah yeah, he got older and he got subtler.)

Originally posted by snwriter
Holding OOTC and GOS back for so long doesn't help him or his fans in the long run. Life is just way too short.

It was the record company who kept GOS back and OOTC suffered from the same fate as Time and Street Angel.

Regardless of what people say about OOTC, it would have SOLD more if some of the songs didn't have the "glisteny" Christmas music-sound, sort of like "You and I" on TITN.

No way am I going to swallow the claim of a particular sound ideal resulting in the commercial failure of an entire album.

It isn’t a “glisteny Christmas music-sound”. It’s an updated, guitar-centred version of the Beach Boys’ Pet Sounds.

And despite all the knocks Stevie takes, she has control over sound too. Just look at the similarities between the Rumours outtake "Planets", presumably overlooked by Lindsey, and the John Shanks-produced version on TISL.

Some here have labelled John Shanks as a “Lindsey-wannabe”.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by face of glass
It’s his persona. You don’t like it, you stick with Fumble Fingers. :lol:

Please explain what the hell you meant by that? :mad:

[face of glass]

And then they say group players have no ego! :)

I wasn’t referring to the fact that the band you’re in is having success on a smaller scale or anything like that.

It was just that LB strikes me as one of those nerds/isolationists at school, people who don’t like the social chatter and hanging around that much. So it’s bound to affect to his music as well, in spite of all that therapy. ;)

Some nerds, even though they might not have the cosiest personalities in this world, are still just too damn cool. :wavey:

[Cammie]

:wavey: ChiliD/ That Sounds like a Song Title!:o
:] Lindsey :cool: A Cool Nerd!:]ME TOO!!!:nod:

[face of glass]

Originally posted by Lux
What's wrong with control freaks? That's how the best art is made. What's the point in ruining a brilliant conception if you're not going to execute it, but rather hurry it along and stick rubbish in as filler?

Yeah, but then again many view rock and roll as a social occasion, not lonely dabbling in the studio. I don't think it necessarily makes the music better but I do see where those people are coming from.


As someone who fits right into that catergory, stick to 'isolationist'.

I fit into that too, so I suppose that's why Lindsey and some other guys (who I'm not going to mention) speak to me; I can tell they've been through at least some of that.

Lindsey, like I, has opened up in many areas as he's gotten older but the isolation that's at the bottom of it all still remains and affects everyday life, sometimes even in the tiniest things.

We'll never be managers of any corporation, anyway. ;)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Lux
. . . Many prefer it to be that way, but I would argue with anyone who says it has to be that way.

It certainly does not have to be that way. But, it became that way when LB make the choice to record his stuff with FM, which is a band, not a solo act :cool: Interestingly, LB does a wonderful job IMO of spending tim ein the studio by himself and then with the band. SN certainly did sort of the same thing by demo'ing four songs without the band and then giving them to the band to use, perfect, etc.

[Janet]

Ok guys let's just face it, it's the pot, munchies and then the long naps in the hammock.

[Mari]

HAMMOCKS!!

*reminiscing yea olde ledge days...:D

[Janet]

Yes, didn't we used to randomly "shout" that word for no reason?

[Mari]

wasn't there a photograph...? If anyone can find that one back I'll be a very happy lindseyfan:)

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
SN certainly did sort of the same thing by demo'ing four songs without the band and then giving them to the band to use, perfect, etc.

One thing I found odd about all that was that she brought in completed songs, not mere demos. How does she do that? Are there three or four musicians in Phoenix who just jump and run over when she beckons?

[snwriter]

In the past, she's had Jesse Valenzuela, ex-guitarist of the Gin Blossoms, run over to the her house to help her make the demos.

[strandinthewind]

She has said a few times that she has people help her with demos. Don Ortiz is one. :cool:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
She has said a few times that she has people help her with demos. Don Ortiz is one. :cool: Al Ortiz. ;)

Of late, it seems that Stevie records almost all of her demos with Al filling in whichever instruments she's not playing herself.
I have to say that they get a pretty good sound for just a basic demo.

I love how they did the "Sweet Girl" demo (which can be found on 'Enchanted') far more than how Fleetwood Mac arranged it for 'The Dance.' It has a lot more oomph and spark.

Carne... I think she brings them in with a more completed sound now, to better demonstrate the arrangement & feel she wants the song to have.

[strandinthewind]

Oops "Don" Ortiz was this jerk I used to work with :eek:

:laugh:

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by chiliD
That's a load of crap...a BIG load of crap. George didn't play everything because he didn't HAVE to, NEED to, or WANT to. Harrison didn't NEED Jeff Lynne, either; the friendship and working relationship worked between the two of 'em, but it wasn't co-dependent...Harrison was a TEAM player...something Buckingham will never EVER get a clue about.

Lindsey did everything because he obviously has some sort of "control" issues. Out Of The Cradle was a masterpiece IN SPITE of itself. Just think how much BETTER it would've been had it not been such an ego-trip.


BTW, George could bury Lindsey in a sitar duel. :laugh:

Amen...All one has to do is find bootlegs of George to find out he needed no-one to help flesh out his ideas. (I included a link to one of the best sounding bootlegs I have of George that proves this, "Beware Of ABKCO")

http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=str001&section=4

I also believe some of the more interesting John Lennon material is what appears on a set called "The Lost Lennon Tapes" which I recommend (Available as either a small 21 disc set or the quite large 222 disc set...The 21 cd set is more easily available.)

And I can definitely say George was the team player as Chili pointed out, One listen to the "Get Back Sessions" proves that. (A fave moment that stands out is when someone working with the filming crew asks George "What's that George?" to which he replies "The new Fleetwood Mac album...")

Btw, George can also SMOKE anyone on the Ukulele :laugh:

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I love how they did the "Sweet Girl" demo (which can be found on 'Enchanted') far more than how Fleetwood Mac arranged it for 'The Dance.' It has a lot more oomph and spark.

That was no demo, that was a completed track, for cripes sake. I suspect they did a lot of tweaking and filling in on that sucker before they even considered releasing it. :nod:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
That was no demo, that was a completed track, for cripes sake. I suspect they did a lot of tweaking and filling in on that sucker before they even considered releasing it. :nod: Possibly.
Her demos from TISL were fairly fleshed out, too (for demos)... though not quite as much as "Sweet Girl."

Even still, it's obvious she doesn't just do simple piano demos anymore! :)

[David]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
One thing I found odd about all that was that she brought in completed songs, not mere demos. How does she do that? Are there three or four musicians in Phoenix who just jump and run over when she beckons? Actually, you're not too far from the truth. Stevie has always been able to rope in good musicians to assist her with recording demos. She hasn't always chosen to do so, which is why we have a lot of demos of just Stevie & her piano. But guys like Michael Campbell, Benmont Tench, Tom Moncrieff, the engineers Hernan Rojas & Shelly Yakus, Mick Fleetwood, Don Henley, Rick Nowels, Al Ortiz, Jesse Valenzuela, Les Dudek, Danny Kortchmar, Waddy Wachtel, Sheryl Crow, Sarah McLachlin & Tom Petty have spent many hours over the years with her recording demos.

I think she offers them brownies.

[CarneVaca]

Laced?

[Mari]

.. or in paper flowers?

[face of glass]

Another golden oldie:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
It certainly does not have to be that way. But, it became that way when LB make the choice to record his stuff with FM, which is a band, not a solo act :cool:

Yeah, I guess you could say that Lindsey did damage the group spirit with his Tusk songs even though the band did marvellous work on the rest of the tracks. On Mirage they try to superficially put the band work to everything and it necessarily doesn’t work always. And I daresay that the extra musicians are only hindering the band interplay and thus the possible next album won’t be any better than SYW in this regard. But LB wasn’t the first to bring the extra hands in. ;)

It also seems to me that Mick Fleetwood hasn’t been interested in real band democracy for a long time; in spite of BTM sounding like a real band album Rick Vito still got treated badly. Mick obviously just wants FM with LB and SN now and lets them take the lead. In the music side, at least.

[snwriter]

I know everyone says Rick got treated badly on BTM. I disagree a little. When Stevie joined FM, she only got to sing lead on two songs on the white album. And she was just a singer. Rick was hired basically for his lead guitar prowess, which is evident on BTM. He also gets quite a few song credits, sings lead on "Stand on the Rock" and co-lead on "When the Sun Goes Down" and "Love is Dangerous."

Maybe he had more songs that didn't make the cut, but the one solo lead vocal he contributed, SOTR, was pretty much a stinker. And I bet he had SOME say in which song of his made it to the album.

[face of glass]

Originally posted by snwriter
Maybe he had more songs that didn't make the cut, but the one solo lead vocal he contributed, SOTR, was pretty much a stinker. And I bet he had SOME say in which song of his made it to the album.

"When The Sun Goes Down" is probably the only concession to Rick on that album. I think "Stand On The Rock" is not; nothing on King Of Hearts really sounds like that one.

"SOTR", "Intuition" and "Got No Home" are Rick's attempts to fit in to FM without being overtly bluesy. I think a lot of King Of Hearts fits into that mold too, what with Wetcamelfood (in his review at the Penguin) speaking of it being the least like RV's musical self in his solo canon. So maybe some of the songs on King Of Hearts were offered to FM at one point and rejected (of course, ChiliD or someone else will soon prove me wrong ;)).

Picking the banality of "SOTR" over the other two was ridiculous especially since "Intuition" and "GNH" are very sophisticated songs. Rick probably thought "Intuition" didn't get the treatment it deserved and used it again on King Of Hearts.

I think they could have gone into a more blues-bound direction if Rick had been allowed to influence the band more.

I do think Billy Burnette got to do what he wanted so in that case I don't agree with the Post-Rumours fanatics. ;)

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by face of glass
I think a lot of King Of Hearts fits into that mold too, what with Wetcamelfood (in his review at the Penguin) speaking of it being the least like RV's musical self in his solo canon. So maybe some of the songs on King Of Hearts were offered to FM at one point and rejected

I think they could have gone into a more blues-bound direction if Rick had been allowed to influence the band more.

I do think Billy Burnette got to do what he wanted so in that case I don't agree with the Post-Rumours fanatics. ;)

Well, I agree to a point. What I directly meant in my review was that I felt KOH sounded much more pop/rock orientated than the likes of "Pink & Black", "Lucky Devils" etc. (that's not to say those are "100% blues & that's it" either but you know. :)

I do recall Rick saying at his Penguin Q&A that FM recorded "Walk another mile" while he was with FM but it obviously wasn't used so you might have a point there in the rejection thing.

I do agree with you that if RV was allowed to do more of what he wanted in FM that FM may have gone the "back to the roots" route.

I often think that he maybe thought this is what Mick wanted to do when he joined the band (go back to the blues) and after getting in the fold, he realized this was obviously not in Mick's plans and thus with the shut out that apparently went on with his submitted material to the band, I'm guessing the "musical differences" view is at least partly the reason he must've left (although he usually just refers to it as "personal reasons"). I'm sure there may have been personal issues going on at the time as well anyways but whatever, this is all just my guess work anyways. :)

I could see why you'd think that Billy was "being allowed to be more himself in FM" but I don't know what to think there, I don't know much about "Victim of love" or the other outtakes and I do think he was "more himself in FM" on "Time" but not so much on BTM. I mean, sure, I love what he did on BTM, but to me I think he felt pressure to be more pop/rock sounding on BTM and hide the country a little bit (though he did certainly touch on it with Rick for "When the sun goes down") as he's sure never recorded anything else like ITBOMM since or before and the obvious John Lennon vibe I hear on "Hard feelings" says a lot as well. His teaming up with popular writer of the day Simon Climie for "When it comes to love" adds fuel to this fire also. I get the feeling this is what Billy felt, though Mick or whoever never actually said to him at the time "I want you to sound (this way)". Mick kept saying at the time what a strong writer Billy was/is and I think he wasn't worried about Billy's stuff not fitting in at that point as at least on the surface, it seemed Mick was more willing to go in whatever direction Billy was going to take things (more on "why only Billy" later) but I think Billy worried about it. This ties in with the many politics that I suspect have gone on through the years in FM history where, at the time, Billy was part of the "in crowd" (even if not "all access", certainly a lot more access than the likes of Rick who I don't think was allowed the freedom Billy was, with the well documented "Are you mine" recording w/SN, his work w/The Zoo, CM, etc. he was already in good standing) then but now, it appears Billy has been shut out and branded as one of the "little people" so it doesn't really matter I guess. :) My point though is that although Billy may have been allowed to do what he wanted, I think he put pressure on himself to not be himself, at least for BTM. Again though, these ramblings of mine are just speculation. :)

Well, I don't know if any of this makes any diffeence or not but I just wanted to make clear what my thoughts on the KOH thing were in case it was being misread is all. :)

John

[chiliD]

I do recall Rick saying at his Penguin Q&A that FM recorded "Walk another mile" while he was with FM but it obviously wasn't used so you might have a point there in the rejection thing.

There's a BTM outtake of "Intution" floating around, as well. It sounds VERY much like the final version on King Of Hearts with the exception of Christine & Billy singing backgrounds on the Fleetwood Mac version and Stevie singing on Rick's solo version. Well, that, and the Fleetwood/McVie rhythm section kicks ass on the Mac version...whereas Rick's solo version has a drum machine and Rick on bass duties, as well.


...teaming up with popular writer of the day Simon Climie for "When it comes to love"...

Who has been Eric Clapton's collaborator for four albums (and a fifth on the way) now, too. No wonder I've always thought "When It Comes To Love" would've been a good song for Clapton. Hmmmm... :cool:

[CarneVaca]

It's quite possible Mick thought Billy fit in better with Fleetwood Mac because of Billy's rockabilly sensibilities. After all, rockabilly was always there, at least at the subliminal level, with Lindsey. Taking Tango aside for a moment, if you take most of Lindsey's Mirage and Tusk songs, the rockabilly influence is all over them. Of course, rockabilly informed punk in a major way, which is quite evident in music by the likes of the Ramones.

See, for Mick, carrying on after Tango had to be quite a daunting challenge, no matter what. Tango had taken the Fleetwood Mac sound in such a new direction that it would have been impossible to maintain that glossy sound without caricaturizing it unless Lindsey was driving it. Lindsey had moved from an essentially rockabilly-based sound to more experimental stuff that was really a progression from the Go Insane sound.

Fitting Rick's blues into the mix at the time was probably not what Mick wanted. But here comes Billy with this country-billy thing, and Mick probably saw an opportunity to maintain some of that essence instead of trying to imitate the Tango sound. Going back to the blues was probably too radical a change to make at that point, though if you really think about it, the blues was just beginning to experience a much-overdue revival at the time. I think Billy fit in with FM better in 1990 than Rick did because Fleetwood Mac had been a little twangy since Lindsey and Stevie had joined, whereas it had very little to do with the blues, except for Christine's approach to some songs.

And while I realize Rick is a very able guitarist, his solo stuff doesn't do much for me. It strikes me as a little too glossy, a la Roomful of Blues. I likes my blues with warts and all, which is why I stopped paying attention to Clapton a long time ago. Billy, on the other hand, does the rockabilly thing with energy and conviction. I dig his stuff. And though people often dis When the Sun Goes Down, to me it is the best damn song on that album. I love that Cajun flavor.

[wondergirl9847]

Yep, Stevie was most definitely influenced by her country lovin' grandpappy and Lindsey has country influences as well. Both of them break their voices in songs.

Country and rock-n-roll have always been bedmates, I believe. Sure, the purists hate when people fuse, but I love it! If you love traditional country, that's fine, but if your heart and soul loves all kinds of music, why not fuse, to come up with new sounds? :nod: That's another reason why I love FM so much, they have so many styles within the group, from Peter to the BN lineup of today, there's something for everyone. :)

[chiliD]

Rockabilly (& Country) was a part of Fleetwood Mac's repetoire from nearly the beginning, thanks to Jeremy Spencer:

"Somebody's Gonna Get Their Head Kicked In Tonite"
"Buddy's Song"
"Blood On The Floor"
"This Is The Rock"
"Mighty Cold"

[face of glass]

Interesting thoughts as usual John:

...the obvious John Lennon vibe I hear on "Hard feelings"...

And choosing that one as the only single from the new members does support your theory.

I think Billy fit in with FM better in 1990 than Rick did because Fleetwood Mac had been a little twangy since Lindsey and Stevie had joined, whereas it had very little to do with the blues, except for Christine's approach to some songs.

The point is agreed with but I think Billy still had problems with doing some of Lindsey's parts in the Shake The Cage/BTM tours. The only one he sounds the most comfortable with, IMO, is "Don't Let Me Down Again" which is the closest to southern boogie Lindsey has ever got to on an album.

[chiliD]

Billy really only had to do (of Lindsey's) "Don't Let Me Down Again" & "Go Your Own Way". He seemed just fine on both, to me. :shrug:

What else, specifically, do you mean?

He kicked some long-needed life into "Oh Well", though. :nod:

[face of glass]

Billy really only had to do (of Lindsey's) "Don't Let Me Down Again" & "Go Your Own Way". He seemed just fine on both, to me. :shrug:

What else, specifically, do you mean?

He kicked some long-needed life into "Oh Well", though. :nod:

I think he sounds lacklustre on "The Chain", "GYOW" and "World Turning" as well. It's probably my ears used to Lindsey. Then again there's nothing wrong with the other stuff he did.

I thought the main guitarwork in "Oh Well", at least the most noticeable crunch, comes from Rick. And I think LB and Billy were both just as exaggerative on the vocal parts of "Oh Well" but whatever. :)

[chiliD]

I think he sounds lacklustre on "The Chain", "GYOW" and "World Turning" as well. It's probably my ears used to Lindsey. Then again there's nothing wrong with the other stuff he did.

As you said, you're probably just used to Lindsey OVER singing parts...where Billy just sings them in his own voice, giving the appearance of "lacklustre".

I thought the main guitarwork in "Oh Well", at least the most noticeable crunch, comes from Rick. And I think LB and Billy were both just as exaggerative on the vocal parts of "Oh Well" but whatever. :)

I meant Billy vocally...and Rick plays it like no other in guitarist in Fleetwood Mac has come close to...not Peter nor Danny...and DEFINITELY not Lindsey.

[face of glass]

As you said, you're probably just used to Lindsey OVER singing parts...where Billy just sings them in his own voice, giving the appearance of "lacklustre".

Yes, all hail the professionalism of Billy Burnette above the amateurish punk behaviour of the spoiled brat Lindsey Buckingham! ;)

I meant Billy vocally...and Rick plays it like no other in guitarist in Fleetwood Mac has come close to...not Peter nor Danny...and DEFINITELY not Lindsey.

Another statement for professionality. But I think they all had the necessary vigour for it on a good night.

[Villavic]

Maybe 'cause the Beatles had four musical geniuses
and Fleetwood Mac only has one: Buckingham. :)


Lux?

I don't think Lindsey is the onle musical genius. What about Christine? She is not a producer but I could say she was also part of the "glue" in the albums.

And.. ok, not the real band but Dashut and Caillat did a great team with Lindsey in the best years.

[chiliD]

Woah, controversial! But yeah, I agree. Although I've made no secret of the fact that I find OOTC lacking on some levels. And having a band to counteract the "ego-trip" may well have helped.

I have a difficult time really getting into the "programmed rhythm section" thing. I prefer hearing Lindsey with one of the tightest rhythm sections of all time.

Other rhythm sections worthy of Fleetwood/McVie type praise:

Sly Dunbar & Robbie Shakespeare (Peter Tosh Band)
Ringo Starr & Paul McCartney (Duh!)
Charlie Watts & Bill Wyman (the Rolling Stones)
Omar Hakim & Darryl Jones (Sting's original solo band rhythm section)
Stewart Copeland & Sting (the Police)
Ginger Baker & Jack Bruce (Cream)
Jim Gordon & Carl Radle (Derek & the Dominoes)
Butch Trucks/Jaimoe & Berry Oakley (RIP)...or Lamar Williams (RIP)...or Allen Woody (RIP)...or Oteil Burbridge (the Allman Bros Band) (being bass player for the ABB isn't a really "job security" position...or say much for your life expectancy)
Frank Beard & Dusty Hill (ZZ Top)
Mickey Hart/Bill Kreutzmann & Phil Lesh (Grateful Dead)
Richie Hayward & Kenny Gradney (Little Feat)
Rick Elliott & Don LaCorte (the nebulous supergroup)
Ray Ventura & Randy Maluy (The ShadowBlasters Blues Band)

[shackin'up]

I think people often underestimate the importance of a good rhythm section alright.

Charlie Watts & Bill Wyman - oh yes indeed.

Do you not rate John Entwistle and Keith Moon?
Oh and John Paul Jones and John Bonham!
Chris Novoselic and Dave Grohl?
Peter Hook and Stephen Morris ?
Billy Talbot and Ralph Molina of Crazy Horse?
Wow, I could go on and on. Better stop there before I mention Geddy Lee and Neil Peart... d'oh!

Wow. sometimes I think you own my CD-closet. ;)
"Ginger Baker and the other guy".

[chiliD]

I think people often underestimate the importance of a good rhythm section alright.

It's like a building...you can't have a solid building with a weak foundation...the rhythm section is the foundation.



Do you not rate John Entwistle and Keith Moon?
Oh and John Paul Jones and John Bonham!

Wow, I could go on and on. Better stop there before I mention Geddy Lee and Neil Peart... d'oh!

There are some great "bass & drum" teams that I don't think could be really considered "rhythm sections", since, due to the style of music they perform together, they're not really holding down any real "rhythm"...those pairs above I kind of put in that category (and upon further review...Ginger Baker & Jack Bruce could be included in this category, as well). Also, Greg Lake/Carl Palmer...Chris Squire/Bill Bruford (and later, Alan White), too...and yeah, Geddy & Neil would be in this group, too.

Chris Novoselic and Dave Grohl?
Peter Hook and Stephen Morris ?
Billy Talbot and Ralph Molina of Crazy Horse?


I couldn't very well mention EVERYBODY, or I'd STILL be typing my post!! :laugh:

Billy Talbot/Ralph Molina!! Great mention!!

I'm not familiar with Peter Hook & Stephen Morris...please enlighten me. I may come off more than often as a "know-it-all"...I'm also a very eager to learn, as well.

[CarneVaca]

What about that bass player in The Strokes? I forget the kid's name, but he can play. His bass lines are not your average bum-badee-dum. I hear a little of John McVie in there.