New clips from the doc. available to view on VH1.com! [Archive]

strandinthewind

03-08-2004, 07:46 PM

I know - I think she and the ret of the band wanted a double album in the beginning, but as LB said, the cost of putting out 30 or more songs was poo pooed by the power to be. Then LB had the sand to say "I'll eat the cost" (Kudos to him). But, the powers to be made the cost so much in both money and time, that he had to back down. And - double records do not sell as well because of the price - so maybe LB was offering t lower his pershare sales and, perhaps, concert proceeds. I cannot wait until Sunday.

Also, this has always bothered my, why put out a 2 disc limited edition at all with just two extra new songs and two live tracks (PK and SYW). Why not just do a double record? Hopfully, they will answer this on Sunday as well. :cool:

Patti

03-08-2004, 07:48 PM

Merf, thanks so much for posting the link, those clips were FABULOUS! I loved the high drama between Stevie and Lindsey--LOL! I cannot wait until Sunday to see the whole thing!

Thanks again!

Patti

sparky

03-08-2004, 08:21 PM

Wow. Thanks for the link !

What a bunch of drama queens ! I can hardly believe it. Of course, what else would it be ? And now Stevie and Lindsey GET ALONG ? I can't imagine what some of the other recording sessions must have been like. This stuff is rich.

WelshWitchPMD

03-08-2004, 10:07 PM

I actually got a few of the videos to work.:D Very interesting stuff!

Johnny Stew

03-08-2004, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by sodascouts
And yes, Stevie, you DO need to maintain person and tense. lol!We should probably save this debate until Sunday (in fact, haven't we had this debate before?), but I have to side with Stevie here.

Now granted, Lindsey is right in regards to the "rules of writing," but those rules are somewhat more fluid in regards to writing rock and roll songs, IMO.

The following wouldn't sound half as good as what Stevie wrote:

"She's shaking his faith in her...
No, he's shaking her faith in everything else.
A decision no one made, and now he's going home.
Faith is a hard thing to hold on to...
Something inside him says, "I don't have to."
He's not like other people, he does what he wants to...
He's not like other people... he does what he wants to."

It just doesn't have the flow of the original lines. And even though she seems to be switching tenses, I think it makes the song somewhat more intriguing, in that it leaves you wondering in places if she's talking about herself, or talking to someone else.

Anyway, I still feel that if one's going to be hard-nosed about the "rules of writing," then one better follow all of them... which means Lindsey would have to fix the double-negatives in "What's The World Coming To." ;)

GardenStateGirlie

03-08-2004, 11:43 PM

Add me to the list of people that can only hear but not see. At any rate, Merf Dawg was giving me the play-by-play. Why do I have a feeling on Sunday night we're going to be on the phone for 90 minutes going...OHMYGOD...OHMYGOD..Oh.Mah.Gah :laugh:

GardenStateGirlie

03-08-2004, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
... which means Lindsey would have to fix the double-negatives in "What's The World Coming To." ;)

LOL...so true...

Yes, he is completely correct when it comes to the "rules of writing" but I absolutely 100% agree with you when you say (and she obviously felt as well) that it wouldn't work. Those lyrics wouln't pack the same punch if they had been written in that way. And after 30 years, he ought to know, don't mess with La Nicks lyrics :laugh: Lindsey Buckingham: Sheriff of the Syntax Police.... I feel a banner coming on....

jadegypsy

03-09-2004, 12:29 AM

Actually I'll side with Stevie too, and I'm an English minor, but since she is writting poetry/lyrics the rules are a bit more like "guidelines", after all ee cummings a great poet pretty much ignored the rules and well, other rock songs leave a lot to be desired in the grammer category. BTW grammer/spelling was never my strong point, as my teacher once said "you just punctuate randomly right?" So of course I loved when she assigned poems and I could ignore grammer rules.

shackin'up

03-09-2004, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I have to side with Stevie here.

Now granted, Lindsey is right in regards to the "rules of writing," but those rules are somewhat more fluid in regards to writing rock and roll songs, IMO.

true. But isn't it great that he tries? I wouldn't dare! And his endremark:
I thought it wasn't a good idea not to bring it up....

he has something with double negatives:laugh: :laugh:

gerald

CarneVaca

03-09-2004, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by jadegypsy
BTW grammer/spelling was never my strong point, as my teacher once said "you just punctuate randomly right?" So of course I loved when she assigned poems and I could ignore grammer rules.

Ahem.

CarneVaca

03-09-2004, 09:18 AM

Actually, the subject/verb agreement in Thrown Down could have been fixed fairly easily without pulling any of the punch out. If she had written the whole thing in the first and second person, it would have been more powerful. And since I've already written at length about my bias against writing songs in the third person, I'll leave it that.

The double negatives are far less offensive than the "should have ran" debacle of "Smile at You." Double negatives in rock 'n roll are just par for the course.

Be that as it may, I can't get to no clips while I'm at work. So I'll have to wait till tonight.

DeeGeMe

03-09-2004, 09:22 AM

I'm was an English Major and am now a professional writer and I'll have to admit that sometimes I mentally correct Stevie's lyrics in my head, but I still love them and I still love her. Her unique writing style is what make Stevie, well, Stevie!

My question is this--after all these years shouldn't Lindsey know better than try to correct Stevie's lyrics? Shouldn't he just leave her alone? Those two really love to fight, don't they? I think it's what they each secretly live for!

CarneVaca

03-09-2004, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
My question is this--after all these years shouldn't Lindsey know better than try to correct Stevie's lyrics? Shouldn't he just leave her alone? Those two really love to fight, don't they? I think it's what they each secretly live for!

Well, I think the issue is that Lindsey is a bit of a perfectionist, and let's face it, Stevie is rather sloppy with her lyrics sometimes.

cliffdweller

03-09-2004, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
I'm was an English Major and am now a professional writer and I'll have to admit that sometimes I mentally correct Stevie's lyrics in my head...

that's the difference between an artist and a prescriptive grammarian---different sets of agenda.

Stevie's an artist dammit, and what is Lindsey talking about when he says you can't change "tense and person" in he middle of a narrative? Even authors change points of view in novels for formalistic or aesthetic purposes. Stevie is just being post-modern and experimental regardless of when Lindsey says, "your song is straightforward not experimental." Whatever, like he knows what's going on in her head and what she means to do with the song. Anyway, I guess I should wait until Sunday to get the whole story.

:D

CarneVaca

03-09-2004, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by cliffdweller
Stevie is just being post-modern and experimental regardless of when Lindsey says, "your song is straightforward not experimental." Whatever, like he knows what's going on in her head and what she means to do with the song. Anyway, I guess I should wait until Sunday to get the whole story.

Do you really think Stevie sat down to write the song and told herself: "I'm going to be post-modern and experimental now." Come on. She probably made the changes without realizing it, and after it was done, she just refused to correct it because she doesn't get the editing thing.

Art is not exempt from editing. Nor is life.

dissention

03-09-2004, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I know - I think she and the ret of the band wanted a double album in the beginning, but as LB said, the cost of putting out 30 or more songs was poo pooed by the power to be. Then LB had the sand to say "I'll eat the cost" (Kudos to him). But, the powers to be made the cost so much in both money and time, that he had to back down. And - double records do not sell as well because of the price - so maybe LB was offering t lower his pershare sales and, perhaps, concert proceeds. I cannot wait until Sunday.

I think the last Outkast album shoots down that reasoning. It was a double and cost the exact same as a single disc album. As was Shania Twain's last album. I suspect that the double album could've been released, cost the same, and sold just as well, but that the label poo-pooed the idea because they didn't believe a double album from a veteran act would've done well. And they're wrong; it would've sold the same.

dissention

03-09-2004, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
We should probably save this debate until Sunday (in fact, haven't we had this debate before?), but I have to side with Stevie here.

Now granted, Lindsey is right in regards to the "rules of writing," but those rules are somewhat more fluid in regards to writing rock and roll songs, IMO.

The following wouldn't sound half as good as what Stevie wrote:

"She's shaking his faith in her...
No, he's shaking her faith in everything else.
A decision no one made, and now he's going home.
Faith is a hard thing to hold on to...
Something inside him says, "I don't have to."
He's not like other people, he does what he wants to...
He's not like other people... he does what he wants to."

It just doesn't have the flow of the original lines. And even though she seems to be switching tenses, I think it makes the song somewhat more intriguing, in that it leaves you wondering in places if she's talking about herself, or talking to someone else.

Anyway, I still feel that if one's going to be hard-nosed about the "rules of writing," then one better follow all of them... which means Lindsey would have to fix the double-negatives in "What's The World Coming To." ;)

I must agree. :eek: :laugh:

If the song was written that way, it would've been even more horrific thatn it already is. :laugh: :wavey:

face of glass

03-09-2004, 11:49 AM

Ah, that’s hilarious. :lol: Lindsey sounds like he’s giving another interview. Or the whole thing is pre-scripted. Yet again. ;)

Reality TV’s got nothing on this one.

As for the “Thrown Down” lyrics debate, seems like we’re once again stuck in a Buckingham-style cycle:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?threadid=7966

Stevie's lyric sounds better to me than what Lindsey suggested. Even LB wrote lyrics between 1979-1987 mainly for the sound of them, not because of any hugely tangible meaning.

Yeah, it's a Nickslyric so it can be a bit confusing. But then again I wonder if even the woman herself knows what all of her writings are about. ;)

Josh2003

03-09-2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by dissention
I think the last Outkast album shoots down that reasoning. It was a double and cost the exact same as a single disc album. As was Shania Twain's last album. I suspect that the double album could've been released, cost the same, and sold just as well, but that the label poo-pooed the idea because they didn't believe a double album from a veteran act would've done well. And they're wrong; it would've sold the same.

Very true, but I think that the record companies know that more people were probably looking forward to new Outkast and Shania Twain than Fleetwood Mac. Also, the people that would be buying those albums, I think, would be more likely to buy a double album than a casual Mac fan.

Carolina Girl

03-09-2004, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

Now granted, Lindsey is right in regards to the "rules of writing," but those rules are somewhat more fluid in regards to writing rock and roll songs, IMO.

So true. They're not writing a literary novel, and sometimes a song works better to go with what sounds best. We could name many many great songs that break the rules of writing!

I had to laugh when I was watching that clip, because I immediately thought of Lindsey on The Dance saying something about the "reconvening of this five people." :laugh:

strandinthewind

03-09-2004, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
. . . Anyway, I still feel that if one's going to be hard-nosed about the "rules of writing," then one better follow all of them... which means Lindsey would have to fix the double-negatives in "What's The World Coming To." ;)
Not to mention the lack of subject verb agreement in BTLH ("Pretending that she don't miss me"). :laugh:

Seriously, I say sing it the way you wrote it :laugh:

strandinthewind

03-09-2004, 01:17 PM

Also, La Nicks loves to make a play on words. She loves to switch between I, she, he, and you - thereby confusing the listener and provoking thought, e.g. Stevie could just as easily be talking about herself in the "now your going home" part of TD. I think she does this intentionally and it is clever. Another example of her using a type play on words is in "Silver Girl:"

You cannot see her soul
You cannot see her soul
You cannot see her soul
You cannot see her soul
Unless she lets you
See her soul
See her soul
She lets you see her soul

I the second "see her soul" is sh commanding you to see her sould or asking is you see her sould yet because "she lets you see her soul" I know some find this strange, but I like it :cool:

dissention

03-09-2004, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Josh2003
Very true, but I think that the record companies know that more people were probably looking forward to new Outkast and Shania Twain than Fleetwood Mac. Also, the people that would be buying those albums, I think, would be more likely to buy a double album than a casual Mac fan.

I don't think so. SYW hasn't even gone platinum; the people who were curous about it or were dying for it were going to pick it up regardless of whether or not it was a double album. The people I've talked to think a double album is more bang for your buck, anyways. The fact is that double albums used to be more expensive, but are the same as single albums these days. Whatever the reasoning for whittling it down to a single album is, I don't buy it! ;)

strandinthewind

03-09-2004, 01:57 PM

Also, 18 songs is almost twice the number of songs on alot the stuff released these days. Usually its like 10 songs maybe 11.

Vianna

03-09-2004, 02:58 PM

Just watched about three of the clips and man this is going to be awesome!I can't wait!

Love Stevie in those red tights or whatever they are!

and did you see one of the Scotties sitting patiently on the floor by the couch Stevie is sitting on?

strandinthewind

03-09-2004, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Vianna
Just watched about three of the clips and man this is going to be awesome!I can't wait!

Love Stevie in those red tights or whatever they are!

and did you see one of the Scotties sitting patiently on the floor by the couch Stevie is sitting on?

Scotties - I did not see that. Having three myself - I'll be on the lookout!!!!! :augh:

Livia

03-09-2004, 03:32 PM

Stevie's doggies are yorkies.

:wavey:

HejiraNYC

03-09-2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Also, 18 songs is almost twice the number of songs on alot the stuff released these days. Usually its like 10 songs maybe 11.

We also have to compare apples with apples here. Shania's so-called "double album" was actually the same single album's worth of songs presented as pop and countrified versions. And I would also be dubious about calling Outkast's "Speakerboxxx/Love Below" a full double album because so much of it is comprised of monologues, interludes, spoken word passages, and lots of throw-away padding. In other words it's a typical hip hop record. But you cannot compare that to a Fleetwood Mac-style double album where you really get two albums worth of fully rendered/produced, unique songs that each stand alone on their own merit. In that regard, if Fleetwood Mac did release SYW as a full double CD after all, it would have been a truly momentous occasion. In fact, I cannot remember the last time a rock/pop act released a proper double album's worth of all-new original material. It very well may have been "Tusk!"

P.S. Guns n Roses doesn't count because they released two separate albums simultaneously. Same with Bruce Springsteen's "Human Touch" and "Lucky Town." Joni Mitchell's "Travelogue" doesn't count because they are all orchestral covers of her earlier works. TuPac doesn't count because he's dead and his estate is raiding the vaults. Prince doesn't count because, well... just because he has no self-restraint. ;-)

strandinthewind

03-09-2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Livia
Stevie's doggies are yorkies.

:wavey:

:( :( :(

I saw the Yorkie, but was hoping to see a Scottie as well!!! :(

Johnny Stew

03-09-2004, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Do you really think Stevie sat down to write the song and told herself: "I'm going to be post-modern and experimental now."I don't think Stevie self-consciously tries to be anything... she just is what she is, without having to force anything. And I believe that's one of the things so many people respond to.

And whether or not she "gets" editing, this is a case where editing would have been to the detriment of the piece. Forcing it to strictly adhere to all of "the rules," would render it devoid of emotion and style, IMO.

At any rate, and as I've said before: it's pop music... the rules of writing are more relaxed in that framework.
If we can excuse double-negatives, we can excuse switching tenses. Both are equally offensive according to the strict rules of writing. :nod:

diamondsnake

03-09-2004, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by HejiraNYC
Outkast's "Speakerboxxx/Love Below" a full double album because so much of it is comprised of monologues, interludes, spoken word passages, and lots of throw-away padding. In other words it's a typical hip hop record.

My sister listens to these types of records with the annoying intros (that everyone ends up skipping anyways) and little phone conversations in between songs. Why oh why do they do this to their records? It cheapens them, not that any of today's hot artists sound so great anyway, but they are even worse with the silly monologues that you mentioned...

diamondsnake

03-09-2004, 05:39 PM

John doesn't talk much, does he? I thought he would let his guard down, but he didn't say one thing in any video clip...

diamondsnake

03-09-2004, 05:47 PM

It looks like a lot of fun to be there and their house looks really cool. :laugh:

SuzeQuze

03-09-2004, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by dissention
I must agree. :eek: :laugh:

If the song was written that way, it would've been even more horrific thatn it already is. :laugh: :wavey:

It could have been:

Thrown down
Like a barricade
Maybe now you can prove to me
That you can be good for me
And we should be together...

I think someone else was pointing this out before. I'm on the fence on this "issue". Sometimes I think her switching works very well and other times I'm not as fond of it. In this song, I like it. I too am surprised that, even after all of these years, Lindsey will say something about Stevie's lyrics. Even we fans know that her songs are like her babies and you do NOT criticize them. Lindsey is controlling and does like to have his way. At least he managed to keep it civil, they both did somehow, this time... Ooh I can't wait for Sunday!

~Susan

dissention

03-09-2004, 06:08 PM

Let's just remember that these are only clips and Stevie might end up being an uber bitch in the real doc, not just Lindsey. :laugh:

GardenStateGirlie

03-09-2004, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by dissention
Let's just remember that these are only clips and Stevie might end up being an uber bitch in the real doc, not just Lindsey. :laugh:

Word.

Stevie and Lindsey both have controlling, bitchy qualities. Darlings, it's why the LOVE to hate and love to LOVE each other. They spent many years together and apart competing with one another. I think we'll see Lindsey trying to seek approval from Stevie on what he's done with her songs and what he's done with the album. He wants to hear it from HER and no one else :nod:

shackin'up

03-09-2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by diamondsnake
John doesn't talk much, does he? I thought he would let his guard down, but he didn't say one thing in any video clip...

oh, I thought he said someting in the Christine-clip...or was that in the promo....

and, like I said before, I think he speaks very much nonverbal in that grin after stevie brought in the Spirit Catcher ( witchy woman after all?? :laugh: )..... anyone on this?

gerald

Johnny Stew

03-09-2004, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by dissention
Let's just remember that these are only clips and Stevie might end up being an uber bitch in the real doc, not just Lindsey. :laugh: Sorry... not gonna happen. ;)

diamondsnake

03-09-2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by dissention
Let's just remember that these are only clips and Stevie might end up being an uber bitch in the real doc, not just Lindsey. :laugh:

This is actually something I'm looking forward to- this will be the first time I will really see who these people are in real life, and I can decide if I like them just as musicians or as people in general. I'm sure they are not bad people at all, but it will be kind of cool to see if any of them are the kind of people I'd actually like to hang out with...

strandinthewind

03-09-2004, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Sorry... not gonna happen. ;)

I tend to agree because Stevie is very aware of the camera every time she is in front of it and she has been in front of it at least three times more than anyone else there :cool: But, anything is possible because as they say "hell hath no fury . . ." :laugh:

cliffdweller

03-09-2004, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Do you really think Stevie sat down to write the song and told herself: "I'm going to be post-modern and experimental now." Come on.

Maybe, I don't know what she's thinking and neither do you.

You know, I'm sure Stevie is sharper than you give her credit for, and btw, what's with the hostile attitude toward her? I thought you were a fan.

It's also obvious that you don't know what I was talking about in my post. Haven't you ever heard of art for art's sake? Aesthetic and form over grammar? I guess not.

:distress:

CarneVaca

03-09-2004, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by cliffdweller
Maybe, I don't know what she's thinking and neither do you.

You know, I'm sure Stevie is sharper than you give her credit for, and btw, what's with the hostile attitude toward her? I thought you were a fan.

It's also obvious that you don't know what I was talking about in my post. Haven't you ever heard of art for art's sake? Aesthetic and form over grammar? I guess not.

:distress:

I'm sure I know enough about the use of the language to teach you about it many times over. There's a difference between using language as art and being just plain sloppy.

What's with the hostile attitude toward a fellow Ledgie? That seems to be a more appropriate question.

cliffdweller

03-09-2004, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I'm sure I know enough about the use of the language to teach you about it many times over.

I doubt it, language is my field.

Anyway, you started the hostility my friend, not me.

lighten up.

:wavey:

strandinthewind

03-09-2004, 08:19 PM

If I have said it once, I've said it 1,000 times :laugh: - both SN and LB are very educated people. They both often refer to great literary works. Moreover, the structure of their music is complicated even if SN is not, as she reaily admits, as great a musician as LB - she at least as vision to get the sound he wants, etc. Moreover, like all rock and rollers, they take liberties with the English language to suit the phrasing they want or mood or sound they are trying to get. In the end, I love almost everything either one of them has ever done INCLUDING "Family Man" and "WISYA" :laugh:

David

03-09-2004, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by sparky
What a bunch of drama queens!I thought so, too, at first. Then I realized that actually they're just bickering a bit, & everybody bickers -- friends, spouses, family, co-workers. But because it's our favorite rockers, the bickering seems more large-scale & more portentous than it really is. Hell, I just had an argument with a co-worker yesterday that was quite a bit more tense than anything in these clips. But we're pals again today. It's the zappy rhythm of daily life.

Lindsey should relent utterly in his mission to alter Stevie's verbal effusions; if it's on paper & she submits it for the lyric sheet, just let it stand as is. I'm sure his only interest in it is as a component of the song (as an adjunct to the music she [or he] has written for it), but arrangements & chords can always be worked around words or phrases that sound stilted or awkward or that don't scan naturally. Like that "when the rain wa-shez you clean, you'll know" from "Dreams." I'm sure when they first heard that, they told Stevie that it was unnatural; that's not how you say the word. But, here we are, & in the long run, it worked beautifully. Her pronunciation barbarism forged a legendary moment in pop-rock.

Johnny Stew

03-10-2004, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by David
I realized that actually they're just bickering a bit, & everybody bickers -- friends, spouses, family, co-workers. But because it's our favorite rockers, the bickering seems more large-scale & more portentous than it really is.David's totally right... nothing in these clips amounts to anything bigger than your average bickering.
I'm sure the members of FM have had battles FAR bigger than any of these.

As Stevie has said, if they got along 100% of the time, the music would be bland. They seem to thrive on having some degree of tension at all times.
And look... a year after the album was released, and they've toured the world, and are still scheduling more dates. So none of the disagreements must have been as bad as they might seem to us.

I just hope we don't get into more rounds of the old Lindsey vs. Stevie arguments, where we can only see one of their sides and not the other's.

CarneVaca

03-10-2004, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by cliffdweller
I doubt it, language is my field.

It is mine too. And I would never use the term "postmodern" in reference to a rock song.

Anyway, you started the hostility my friend, not me.

lighten up.

:wavey:

I directed not a speck of hostility toward you. You, however, were hostile toward me because of a difference of opinion.

Carolina Girl

03-10-2004, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by David
Like that "when the rain wa-shez you clean, you'll know" from "Dreams." I'm sure when they first heard that, they told Stevie that it was unnatural; that's not how you say the word. But, here we are, & in the long run, it worked beautifully. Her pronunciation barbarism forged a legendary moment in pop-rock.

And don't forget "drown-din" in the sea of love :)

Livia

03-10-2004, 10:30 AM

And don't forget "drown-din" in the sea of love

LOL - that was actually a trivia question on the radio this morning for Big Head Todd tickets. They asked, "according to FM, what would everyone love to do in the sea of love?"

:wavey:

dissention

03-10-2004, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Sorry... not gonna happen. ;)

When then, I must be the only one who thought she was being a stubborn ass in those clips. And the looks on her face are rather mean, like she's just waiting for Lindsey to say something so that she can jump all over him. Lindsey? He was rather whiny, but that's understandable about the double album. But he was still utterly obnoxious. :nod:

That's just what I got from the clips, but I'll reserve final judgement for Sunday at 10:30. ;)

face of glass

03-10-2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by David
Lindsey should relent utterly in his mission to alter Stevie's verbal effusions; if it's on paper & she submits it for the lyric sheet, just let it stand as is.

For me it seems like he's talking to her as a producer, trying to get the writer to possibly change some things that might seem awkward, or sometimes trying to get her to get rid of a stanza or two. It's what Ken Caillat spoke about in his Q&A too.

But I do agree with your statement. :nod:

strandinthewind

03-10-2004, 01:21 PM

I do not get why LB wants her to use "he" when the entire this is "you." I agree with Stevie in her use of words there. i think saying he would mean instead of me, she would have to use she :shrug: I guess we will see more on Sun. But, I am sure SN is far too clever to be a complete bitch in front of the camera. She certainly was not in this clip.

CarneVaca

03-10-2004, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I do not get why LB wants her to use "he" when the entire this is "you." I agree with Stevie in her use of words there. i think saying he would mean instead of me, she would have to use she :shrug

What!!?? :confused:

Did you have ona dem ar, watchmacallit, liquid lunches?

strandinthewind

03-10-2004, 03:47 PM

No - it is Lent damnit and no alcohol is consumed during Lent!!!!!! :laugh:

What I was saying is the lyrics as they stand (kudos to www.nicksfix.com) are:

He fell for her again, she watched it happen
Every day-- day by day
But more important-- night by night
She watched it all come into play
He held her hands, she listened to what he had to say

Thrown down... like a barricade
Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together

You've shaken your faith in me, no
You've shaken my faith in everything else
A decision no one makes, and now you're going home
Faith is a hard thing to hold on to
Something inside you says I don't have to
You're not like other people, you do what you want to
You're not like other people, you do what you want to

Thrown down... like a barricade
Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together

You say you're sorry...
Now you should walk away
But it's so overwhelming,
You have nothing left to say
You can sit outside his door and wait
Well, you can dedicate your pain to him

Oh, thrown down... like a barricade
Maybe now he could prove to her
That he could be good for her
And they should be together
About just how much he never really told her...
Thrown down...
About how difficult it had been to be without her...
Thrown down...

___________________________________

I am just saying she switches twice from using "he" to using "you." The first time she is talking to LB and the second time she is talking to herself. I think it works better that way. Also, I am unsure if it is incorrect in that it is a poem and she is switching persons to covey a different point. Switching persons in this context is not completely against the rules is it :shurg: If so, lots of poets are guilty :laugh:

I just like it the way it is and think using he instead of you would not work as well. :cool:

CarneVaca

03-10-2004, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Switching persons in this context is not completely against the rules is it :shurg: If so, lots of poets are guilty :laugh:

No, but shurging surely is. ;)

I don't disagree with you (not to say that I outright agree, mind you). It kind of works, but I have a bias against third-person songs. It's one of my quirks, dammit, and I'm gonna hold on to it.

strandinthewind

03-10-2004, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
No, but shurging surely is. ;)

I don't disagree with you (not to say that I outright agree, mind you). It kind of works, but I have a bias against third-person songs. It's one of my quirks, dammit, and I'm gonna hold on to it.

Leave my shurgs alone :laugh:

I tend to agree with you here, but WHAT I REALLY HATE :laugh: is when La Nicks refers to herself as "she," although that works in some instances. An instance where it does not work IMO is the song "Love Is" from TISL. The whole "she fell to the floor" part just makes me go ICK. But, its her stuff I guess and even with that she is better than most. :cool:

diamondsnake

03-10-2004, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by dissention
When then, I must be the only one who thought she was being a stubborn ass in those clips. And the looks on her face are rather mean, like she's just waiting for Lindsey to say something so that she can jump all over him. Lindsey? He was rather whiny, but that's understandable about the double album. But he was still utterly obnoxious. :nod:

That's just what I got from the clips, but I'll reserve final judgement for Sunday at 10:30. ;)

I swear you find the smallest little tiny things to criticize Stevie about. I know deep down you are a fan but it so totally gets on my nerves that it is as if you want to find different faults in her. How can someone be a stubborn ass when they didn't show any bitchy qualities at all in these clips? I know this is going to come off sounding soooo lame, but Stevie is a really nice, warm person- get over it!

It seems like you want her to be a bitch so you can bitch about how she's a bitch. :laugh:

Can't you just be a fan that loves her instead of being a fan that criticizes everything, just for the sake of criticizing (it appears to me at least)?:wavey:

dissention

03-10-2004, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I tend to agree with you here, but WHAT I REALLY HATE :laugh: is when La Nicks refers to herself as "she," although that works in some instances. An instance where it does not work IMO is the song "Love Is" from TISL. The whole "she fell to the floor" part just makes me go ICK. But, its her stuff I guess and even with that she is better than most. :cool:

That's really the only qualm I have with Stevie's writing; her goddamned she's when she refers to herself. It never works, IMO. It's most apalling in "Love Is" and "Ghosts."

It doesn't just make me feel ill, it makes me shake and shurg.

dissention

03-10-2004, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by diamondsnake
I swear you find the smallest little tiny things to criticize Stevie about. I know deep down you are a fan but it so totally gets on my nerves that it is as if you want to find different faults in her. How can someone be a stubborn ass when they didn't show any bitchy qualities at all in these clips? I know this is going to come off sounding soooo lame, but Stevie is a really nice, warm person- get over it!

It seems like you want her to be a bitch so you can bitch about how she's a bitch. :laugh:

Can't you just be a fan that loves her instead of being a fan that criticizes everything, just for the sake of criticizing (it appears to me at least)?:wavey:

Woah, I never said she was a bitch, dude.

I said she seemed like an ass in those clips and that Lindsey seemed quite obnoxious.

Don't read my posts if you take issue with them, I'm sick of you calling people out and saying how you think they should feel about Stevie. I swear, Stevie could murder someone and you'd defend her. Even the great Johnny Stew isn't as defensive. Get over it, bud.

strandinthewind

03-10-2004, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by dissention
That's really the only qualm I have with Stevie's writing; her goddamned she's when she refers to herself. It never works, IMO. It's most apalling in "Love Is" and "Ghosts."

It doesn't just make me feel ill, it makes me shake and shurg.

"to fill the empty spaces she's feeling - she depends on her music like a husband" :laugh:

Are you shurging yet :laugh:

Actually, I like Ghosts even with the she's :cool:

CarneVaca

03-10-2004, 04:40 PM

I do declare this thread is becoming quite shurg-inducing.

Johnny Stew

03-10-2004, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by dissention
Even the great Johnny Stew isn't as defensive.Hmm... I'm trying to figure out if I'm being complimented or dissed. :confused:

Sure, I'm pro-Stevie all the way, but I think my fandom is tempered with enough reason and intelligently gathered opinions, that I'm not just a mindless lemming.

But I do realize that not expressing what people consider to be an appropriate amount of cynicism and criticism, sets you up for some level of disdain.
I just find that if an artist annoys the snot out of me more than they entertain me, then I don't consider myself a devotee. And thankfully Stevie doesn't annoy me.

I don't think she's the be-all and end-all of all things on this Earth, but she touches me, reaches me, excites me, and entertains me.
Her... just the way she is.
Without me putting (unreasonable?) expectations on her.

Like I've said before... there are so few joys in this life, that when I find one, I don't spend my time ripping it apart.
I appreciate it for what it is. Perfect in all of its inherent imperfections.

And I guess (though I don't know) that that's maybe where Christopher is coming from.
I may be wrong, but I think he's a relatively new fan... so I imagine he's probably still trying to figure out how one can love something, and yet seem to bash it all the time.

I have to admit that I scratch my head over that sometimes too, but over the years I've realized that everyone has their own way of expressing their fandom.
Some people seem to get a little blind in their obsession, while others seem to endlessly nitpick... but we're all here for the same reason, so we should accept our differences.

So anyway... I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think that's a good place to wrap up. :D :laugh:

diamondsnake

03-10-2004, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by dissention
Woah, I never said she was a bitch, dude.

I said she seemed like an ass in those clips and that Lindsey seemed quite obnoxious.

Don't read my posts if you take issue with them, I'm sick of you calling people out and saying how you think they should feel about Stevie. I swear, Stevie could murder someone and you'd defend her. Even the great Johnny Stew isn't as defensive. Get over it, bud.

First of all the only person I ever call on criticizing Stevie is you, because I rarely, if ever, see you say anything positive about her. And no, I would not defend Stevie if she comited murder, but I will defend your statement that she seems like an ass in those videos because, I don't see where you are coming from at all and it seemed like you were trying to find faults in her, faults that aren't really there. And I have no problem with you making fun of Stevie, but is there anything you like about her? :confused:

diamondsnake

03-10-2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Hmm... I'm trying to figure out if I'm being complimented or dissed. :confused:

Sure, I'm pro-Stevie all the way, but I think my fandom is tempered with enough reason and intelligently gathered opinions, that I'm not just a mindless lemming.

But I do realize that not expressing what people consider to be an appropriate amount of cynicism and criticism, sets you up for some level of disdain.
I just find that if an artist annoys the snot out of me more than they entertain me, then I don't consider myself a devotee. And thankfully Stevie doesn't annoy me.

I don't think she's the be-all and end-all of all things on this Earth, but she touches me, reaches me, excites me, and entertains me.
Her... just the way she is.
Without me putting (unreasonable?) expectations on her.

Like I've said before... there are so few joys in this life, that when I find one, I don't spend my time ripping it apart.
I appreciate it for what it is. Perfect in all of its inherent imperfections.

And I guess (though I don't know) that that's maybe where Christopher is coming from.
I may be wrong, but I think he's a relatively new fan... so I imagine he's probably still trying to figure out how one can love something, and yet seem to bash it all the time.

I have to admit that I scratch my head over that sometimes too, but over the years I've realized that everyone has their own way of expressing their fandom.
Some people seem to get a little blind in their obsession, while others seem to endlessly nitpick... but we're all here for the same reason, so we should accept our differences.

So anyway... I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think that's a good place to wrap up. :D :laugh:

Well Said. :)

dissention

03-10-2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Hmm... I'm trying to figure out if I'm being complimented or dissed. :confused:

I'm not dissing you at all, doll. If I was, I wouldn't have said great. ;) We've had enough good conversations and talks that I would think you knew I thought of you as a wonderful person with very well thought out opinions. I have the utmost respect for you because you can actually back up your opinions and present them in a good manner.

dissention

03-10-2004, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by diamondsnake
First of all the only person I ever call on criticizing Stevie is you, because I rarely, if ever, see you say anything positive about her. And no, I would not defend Stevie if she comited murder, but I will defend your statement that she seems like an ass in those videos because, I don't see where you are coming from at all and it seemed like you were trying to find faults in her, faults that aren't really there. And I have no problem with you making fun of Stevie, but is there anything you like about her? :confused:

Therein lies the problem: it isn't your place to call me out on my posts. Everyone has a difference of opinion and if you don't like mine, don't read my posts; it's as simple as that. The thing is, if you don't see where I'm coming from, form a constructive post, wherein you can ask me why I have those opinions. But you don't do that; you question my being a fan and rudely insinuate that my thoughts are of no importance. They very well may not be worth much, but they're just as worthy as yours. I'd like to see the posts of mine that have me "making fun of Stevie." I don't see it. I see posts that contain my opinions on her and her music, and honey, the good far outweigh the bad. But you wouldn't know that because you only read the posts that you want to and you look for something in them to criticize me for. I don't look for faults, if I see them, I see them. I don't get defensive over the Mac/Stevie/Lindsey because it's just ridiculous. I don't get pissed and I don't throw art supplies, either. You can like what you want and I can like what I want, no bones about it. And the next time you want to rudely criticize me for my opinions, don't expect a response because it isn't worth my time. If you want to have constructive and thoughtful discussions about them, so be it, I'm game for that.

David

03-10-2004, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by diamondsnake
And I have no problem with you making fun of Stevie, but is there anything you like about her? I like the way she coastal cities, the way she lights. I like the way she ocean blends.

I like the way she feverish garbanzo!

dissention

03-10-2004, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by David
I like the way she coastal cities, the way she lights. I like the way she ocean blends.

I like the way she feverish garbanzo!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: LMAO!!!

Cammie

03-10-2004, 08:59 PM

:wavey: The whole thing is just a set-up don't you
know??? The camera is on and they are acting!
Lindsey likes to push the buttons to get her mad
and vice versa...Stevie likes to argue with him!
It's funny he can slop the paint on his lyric canvas
...but Stevie can't throw sloppy words in her lyrics!

Literary license doesn't "wash" in Rock and Roll!!!:eek:
The whole argument is a waste of time! Lyrics belong
to the person who writes them! They really only need to
fullfill the intent of the song! IMHO that is!!!;) Come on
Sunday night! Can't wait to hear S & L fight! :eek: Sky:):cool:

4Buck

03-10-2004, 09:03 PM

I must be the only one who thought she was being a stubborn ass in those clips. And the looks on her face are rather mean, like she's just waiting for Lindsey to say something so that she can jump all over him.

>>>> I saw the same as you. And the thing that got the biggest laugh from me was Nicks comparing herself to Bob Dylan. :laugh: I mean she's good....BUT she's no Bob Dylan!

........It's fascinating to see Buckingham "in action" in these, but does Nicks keep that sullen stare throughout the entire show?

>>>>>They're putting us on. It's good acting. Can't wait till this weekend!

dissention

03-10-2004, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by 4Buck
>>>> I saw the same as you. And the thing that got the biggest laugh from me was Nicks comparing herself to Bob Dylan. :laugh: I mean she's good....BUT she's no Bob Dylan!

........It's fascinating to see Buckingham "in action" in these, but does Nicks keep that sullen stare throughout the entire show?

>>>>>They're putting us on. It's good acting. Can't wait till this weekend!

I agree. :) I can't stand Dylan at times, but I don't think anyone can really touch him when it comes to writing lyrics; the man's a genius. But his delivery and emotion? Ugh. Stevie's close, though, with lyrics. She's the female Dylan. :nod: :D

LindseyChick

03-10-2004, 10:07 PM

The discussion about it being a single or double album is really mute. "Say You Will" is 18 songs. "Tusk", I think, is 20. We got pretty damn near close to a double album for a single album price.

What I wanted to say was thanks for the link to the previews for Sunday's show.

And what about the Boston show that was taped? I was there! Drove from Buffalo to Boston just to see him again, see him again.... Does anyone know when that's coming out?

Sharon

CarneVaca

03-11-2004, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Sharon L
The discussion about it being a single or double album is really mute.

I know! So much noise over a mute discussion. What gives? ;)

CarneVaca

03-11-2004, 01:59 PM

dissention

03-11-2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
At the risk of piling on against Stevie, I have to agree with this as well. Very few people come close to Dylan, and Stevie ain't one of them.

Have you heard anything about his new album? Someone told me that some of the masters were destroyed and he has to do some songs all over again. I'm not sure if it's true, though, because I didn't even know he was recording right now. And I just saw "Masked and Anonymous" last night. It rocked. :nod:

Bella Figura

03-11-2004, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by dissention
I agree. :) I can't stand Dylan at times, but I don't think anyone can really touch him when it comes to writing lyrics; the man's a genius. But his delivery and emotion? Ugh. Stevie's close, though, with lyrics. She's the female Dylan. :nod: :D

PLEASE NOTE Dissention did say something positive about Stevie. :laugh: :wavey:

though I personally don't get or like the whole Bob Dylan thing. My personal opinion: he bores me to tears...plus I hate his mumbling...(insert Joe Pesci Goodfellows quote here)

now John Lennon is a true original lyrical genius so Stevie as an artist should use always use him as the benchmark...

with this post I can't wait for Sunday, bickering is sooo entertaining...

chiliD

03-11-2004, 04:12 PM

dissention

03-11-2004, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Bella Figura
PLEASE NOTE Dissention did say something positive about Stevie. :laugh: :wavey:

though I personally don't get or like the whole Bob Dylan thing. My personal opinion: he bores me to tears...plus I hate his mumbling...(insert Joe Pesci Goodfellows quote here)

now John Lennon is a true original lyrical genius so Stevie as an artist should use always use him as the benchmark...

with this post I can't wait for Sunday, bickering is sooo entertaining...

I say many positive things about Stevie :D But some people don't seem to recognize that because it doesn't support their bashing. :laugh:

I think Dylan is a genius, seriously. You don't even have to listen to his music, you can just read his lyrics and books. One line just has so much meaning that it's astounding. :)

Livia

03-11-2004, 05:12 PM

I think Dylan is a genius, seriously. You don't even have to listen to his music, you can just read his lyrics and books. One line just has so much meaning that it's astounding.

I believe Bob Dylan was #1 for me on that chit-chat board thread re: singers you hate. I think the man is a BRILLIANT lyricist, and I have the utmost respect for him. I just don't want to hear him sing. Gimme Jimi Hendrix's "Watchtower" any day.

dissention

03-11-2004, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
It's been my observation that those under the age of 40 just don't "get" Bob Dylan. You kind of have to have "been there" when he was at his early peak to really understand him. If there's anyone who is a BIG Bob Dylan fan and you're under 40, let me know.

It's like being a teenage Beatle fan...sure I can see where you'd like their music, but how can you REALLY be into the Beatles, when you weren't "there" to first hand feel the musical & sociological events as they happened?

Know what I mean? :shrug:

I very much agree, but only to an extent. Dylan's music will have a lot more meaning to someone who grew up listening to it while it was being churned out in the 60s and 70s and they'll be able to get a better grasp of his music because they knew what he was getting at during those times. But I also think that not growing up during those eras has its benefits, too. I think that someone under 30 who enjoys his music may perhaps have a great appreciation for it because they can relate to it without being there, so to speak. Get what I'm saying? :)

dissention

03-11-2004, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Livia
I believe Bob Dylan was #1 for me on that chit-chat board thread re: singers you hate. I think the man is a BRILLIANT lyricist, and I have the utmost respect for him. I just don't want to hear him sing. Gimme Jimi Hendrix's "Watchtower" any day.

I thought he was fine vocally up until the end of the eighties. His voice didn't really bother me up until that period. But the nineties and onwards? Hell no. He sounds like Linda Blair these days. For example, I love the song "Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee" from his last album to death, but his voice is just unbearable on that song.

GardenStateGirlie

03-11-2004, 05:18 PM

sodascouts

03-11-2004, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Sharon L
The discussion about it being a single or double album is really mute. "Say You Will" is 18 songs. "Tusk", I think, is 20. We got pretty damn near close to a double album for a single album price.

I agree - perhaps the few songs that got left off were especially dear to LB's heart? Otherwise it seems he pretty much got what he wanted.

P.S. It's "moot point," not "mute point." Not trying to be picky, it's just a little pet peeve of mine, lol.

HomerMcvie

03-11-2004, 09:23 PM

What the hell is a shurg?

Hawkeye

03-11-2004, 11:33 PM

The way I see it Lindsey and the rest of the band and us should all look at it this way. If there really are that many unused finished tracks, they should have no problem making a follow up album and doing it QUICK.

DownOnRodeo

03-11-2004, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Hawkeye
The way I see it Lindsey and the rest of the band and us should all look at it this way. If there really are that many unused finished tracks, they should have no problem making a follow up album and doing it QUICK.

That's sure how I see it, Hawkeye. Well said.

strandinthewind

03-12-2004, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by HomerMcvie
What the hell is a shurg?

Being the horrible typist I am, I misspelled "shrug" as shurg in an earlier post :laugh: Carne picked on it in a friendly attempt to haze me a little :laugh: :cool:

Johnny Stew

03-12-2004, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by dissention
I'm not dissing you at all, doll. If I was, I wouldn't have said great. ;) We've had enough good conversations and talks that I would think you knew I thought of you as a wonderful person with very well thought out opinions. I have the utmost respect for you because you can actually back up your opinions and present them in a good manner. I'd never assume that someone thinks I'm "wonderful," but I thought we at least had a mutual respect. :) But with the wording of "even the great Johnny Stew," I wasn't sure what the "even" was supposed to mean.
Hard to get a read on these things sometimes, so I was a bit confused! (Wouldn't be the first time.)

Anyway, I had hoped it wasn't a diss... but thought I'd respond anyway to make sure.
I'm glad I did, and I'm glad it wasn't. :D

Johnny Stew

03-12-2004, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by 4Buck
>>>> I saw the same as you. And the thing that got the biggest laugh from me was Nicks comparing herself to Bob Dylan. :laugh: I mean she's good....BUT she's no Bob Dylan!Just to add a different perspective... I don't think Stevie was necessarily putting herself in league with Bob Dylan, in regards to the quality of the writing, but rather making a comparison as to the style of writing.

After all, she's the woman who once said, "I'm not Bob Dylan, but every once in a while I've gotta say something." :)

Gazza

03-12-2004, 01:29 AM

She was clearly using Dylan to make a point rather than compare herself to him. I think he's overrated personally, even if one of my favourite songs is one of his :D

Otis Redding got him right... Too many lyrics.

CarneVaca

03-12-2004, 08:56 AM

CarneVaca

03-12-2004, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Being the horrible typist I am, I misspelled "shrug" as shurg in an earlier post :laugh: Carne picked on it in a friendly attempt to haze me a little :laugh: :cool:

Yeah, but it's a mute point now...;)

CarneVaca

03-12-2004, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by Gazza
She was clearly using Dylan to make a point rather than compare herself to him. I think he's overrated personally, even if one of my favourite songs is one of his :D

Otis Redding got him right... Too many lyrics.

BLASPHEME!!

strandinthewind

03-12-2004, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I'd never assume that someone thinks I'm "wonderful" . . .

Don't worry - It shines through!!!!! :cool: :) :wavey:

Bella Figura

03-12-2004, 10:13 AM

ugh, since forty(40) looms for me this October,I guess later this year I will become a Dylan fan!! :laugh:

cliffdweller

03-12-2004, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Gazza
Otis Redding got him right... Too many lyrics.

:laugh: :laugh: That is too hilarious. I love Otis Redding, but I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with that comment.

:wavey:

Gazza

03-12-2004, 01:20 PM

I agree with Otis... At least to a point... When you're singing about something that is carving you up, it just seems a little false to include so many lyrics. That's something I always loved about Go Your Own Way... It's just a guy saying it like it is, and not hiding behind anything fancy.

I would guess, that if you were to ask most people who aren't big Dylan fans to name their favourite song of his, you'd probably end up with songs like Lay Lady Lay or Knockin' On Heavens Door.

CarneVaca

03-12-2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Gazza
I agree with Otis... At least to a point... When you're singing about something that is carving you up, it just seems a little false to include so many lyrics. .

Why do you think that? I agree with your assessment of Go Your Own Way, but would you say Positively Fourth Street doesn't ring true?

Who hasn't felt like this once or twice:

You got a lotta nerve
To say you are my friend
When I was down
You just stood there grinning

You got a lotta nerve
To say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on
The side that's winning

You say I let you down
You know it's not like that
If you're so hurt
Why then don't you show it

You say you lost your faith
But that's not where it's at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it

I know the reason
That you talk behind my back
I used to be among the crowd
You're in with

Do you take me for such a fool
To think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide
What he don't know to begin with

You see me on the street
You always act surprised
You say, "How are you?" "Good luck"
But you don't mean it

When you know as well as me
You'd rather see me paralyzed
Why don't you just come out once
And scream it

No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I'd rob them

And now I know you're dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don't you understand
It's not my problem

I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is
To see you

strandinthewind

03-12-2004, 01:34 PM

Sheryl Crowe told an interviewer once that the best thing about meeting Bob Dylan other than just being able to meet him was that he told her to srite a truly great song, everyline must sound like it is so interesting it could be the opening line of a song. I think alot of Dylan's work is like that. It is very heady, but cool at the same time. He is a genius amongst many IMO. Just look at the song Carne quoted - genius (the song not Carne :laugh: :wavey: )

Also, Dylan, like Stevie, is a genius at phrasing and he and she can make seemingly awkward phrases on paper come to life IMO.

Cristian

03-12-2004, 02:08 PM

That song is simply one of the greatest things that has ever been recorded. The lyrics are just perfect for that state of mind. It's my favorite Dylan tune.

Song of the moment - Don't Look Down

Gazza

03-12-2004, 02:39 PM

It's a great song, but to give an example of what I don't like with Dylan...

Johnny's in the basement
Mixing up the medicine
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in the trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he's got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off
Look out kid
It's somethin' you did
God knows when
But you're doin' it again
You better duck down the alley way
Lookin' for a new friend
The man in the coon-skin cap
In the big pen
Wants eleven dollar bills
You only got ten

Maggie comes fleet foot
Face full of black soot
Talkin' that the heat put
Plants in the bed but
The phone's tapped anyway
Maggie says that many say
They must bust in early May
Orders from the D. A.
Look out kid
Don't matter what you did
Walk on your tip toes
Don't try "No Doz"
Better stay away from those
That carry around a fire hose
Keep a clean nose
Watch the plain clothes
You don't need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows

Get sick, get well
Hang around a ink well
Ring bell, hard to tell
If anything is goin' to sell
Try hard, get barred
Get back, write braille
Get jailed, jump bail
Join the army, if you fail
Look out kid
You're gonna get hit
But users, cheaters
Six-time losers
Hang around the theaters
Girl by the whirlpool
Lookin' for a new fool
Don't follow leaders
Watch the parkin' meters

Ah get born, keep warm
Short pants, romance, learn to dance
Get dressed, get blessed
Try to be a success
Please her, please him, buy gifts
Don't steal, don't lift
Twenty years of schoolin'
And they put you on the day shift
Look out kid
They keep it all hid
Better jump down a manhole
Light yourself a candle
Don't wear sandals
Try to avoid the scandals
Don't wanna be a bum
You better chew gum
The pump don't work
'Cause the vandals took the handles

When I was younger the video for this bollocks would come on, and I'd cry. You've got to be smacked up your tits to want to listen to that one.

I think "Whatever colours you have in your mind, I'll show them to you, and you'll see them shine" is worth so much more.

I've always had a love/hate thing with Dylan though... I remember when I was very young my Dad would be playing stuff like Love In Vain, Like A Rolling Stone or I Want You, but then they'd be followed by the aptly titled Desolation Row.

Saying that, I'll probably have it played at my funeral - just to let everyone know what misery really is before I go.

face of glass

03-12-2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Gazza
I've always had a love/hate thing with Dylan though... I remember when I was very young my Dad would be playing stuff like Love In Vain, Like A Rolling Stone or I Want You, but then they'd be followed by the aptly titled Desolation Row.

“Subterranean Homesick Blues”, like many of Dylan’s early songs, are beat poetry. They’re not trying to say anything clear to us; they’re not something that you can simply interpret and toss away. I believe even Dylan isn’t sure of what the meaning of some of his songs is. It’s just something that flows to him naturally.

I think something like “SHB” or “Desolation Row” is trying to tell us in general how meaningless life is. It’s a set of random images from a fractured mind that’s trying to get a hold of the reality and yet fails to do so. Streams of emotion coming out of nowhere, meeting for a moment and then disappearing into nothingness, that’s what some of his songs are about. And thank God those were captured for posterity.

That’s how I see it anyway. I love it when he can be very vague sometimes yet he still doesn’t come off as if he’s trying to be intentionally incomprehensible. That’s something I get out of Stevie’s lyrics sometimes, and also of Lindsey’s music (and some of the recent lyrics).

Originally posted by chiliD
It's like being a teenage Beatle fan...sure I can see where you'd like their music, but how can you REALLY be into the Beatles, when you weren't "there" to first hand feel the musical & sociological events as they happened?

I understand that but I also believe that great art can be timeless. If something survives the changes of the times and still has something to say to us then it’s worthy. If music can’t live outside all the sociological baggage then it isn’t anything but a curiosity to me.

Dylan hasn’t really had a “comeback” period of sorts (except in 1974 with Planet Waves), he’s always kept on making albums. When FM did the Dance they gained a lot of new fans. I think that’s the main reason to why there aren’t as many fanatical young Dylan fans as there are with Fleetwood Mac. Dylan hasn’t needed publicity stunts for a long time.

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Also, Dylan, like Stevie, is a genius at phrasing and he and she can make seemingly awkward phrases on paper come to life IMO.

This I agree with completely. Dylan and Stevie have both written great songs. They have written their share of great lyrics (although I think Dylan has been more diverse in that area than SN). They both have great voices that have gone through a lot of changes. (I think they both operate under similar principles; no wonder both can generate such total love/hate reactions from people.)

Yet I don’t think anyone can really be a fan of theirs and thoroughly separate the lyrics and the music from the performance itself. It’s all about the way they sing it, the way they phrase, the way those lyrics are under their complete control. Listen to that seven minute poem “Last Thoughts On Woody Guthrie” on the Bootleg Series Vol. 1-3. It’s completely mesmerizing to listen to even though you can’t decipher all of the lyrics at once.

While there have been good Dylan covers, the originals will always be the definitive for me. Or then there would have to be radical reinventions, like Hendrix’ “All Along The Watchtower”. And the same goes to SN.

Stevie and Bob will always be essential parts of my life. :)

sodascouts

03-12-2004, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Uh, Chili, I'm not there yet. I may look 40:( , but I ain't. :)

It's that dazzling intellect of yours. Presumably, it would take at LEAST four decades to amass your vast store of wisdom. Under 40? I stand amazed in your presence! ;)

P.S. Does anyone else think that winky icon looks like Groucho Marx?

chiliD

03-12-2004, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by face of glass
Dylan hasn’t really had a “comeback” period of sorts (except in 1974 with Planet Waves), he’s always kept on making albums.

The Time Out Of Mind album was somewhat of a comeback, he won a Grammy in 1998 for it. And, his song "Things Have Changed" from the movie Wonderboys won an Oscar in 2000.

I think Dylan has had quite a new influx of fans, it just seems as though Dylan fans aren't the type to BE "fanatical" and pack message boards to the extent that fans of bands such at The Beatles, Stones, Fleetwood Mac, U2, etc, do.

bucknick201

03-13-2004, 12:00 AM

I just watched the infamous "clips." The clip where Lindsey is making his case to Stevie is at a minimum precious. As a person who put's in security equipment, this shot is from a bullet or "pinhole" camera i.e... they weren't aware of the recording.

Listen to Lindsey "project" his rationale to Stevie and then literally trap himself in his own inner sub-conscious feelings about his personal happiness with the whole gig (he is married and cautious, but one can't fake drama on an interpersonal level).

Lindsey literally "stutters" his words when bringing up the wholistic situation and how happy he is, but, it was his personal creative side that rought this up (at first) to make his point on the double album.... however, he could't escape the reality of his own personnal happiness and quite possibly... his inner love and affection for Stevie.

I real believe that Lindsey is happy and content, but his emotional catharsis is indicative of feelings that just never go away dammit. Please all, watch this segment and rewind it!!!

face of glass

03-13-2004, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by chiliD
The Time Out Of Mind album was somewhat of a comeback, he won a Grammy in 1998 for it. And, his song "Things Have Changed" from the movie Wonderboys won an Oscar in 2000.

I guess you’re right, many people view that whole 1978-93 period as a regressive one. Converting to Christianity, then to Judaism, then to standard ‘80s production (for Empire Burlesque), then to the Travelling Wilburys :p and then releasing a couple of albums full of obscure traditionals obviously wasn’t appreciated by too many people. Only when he releases stuff that could be seen as “traditional Dylan” does he get the biggest attention. Which isn’t entirely fair, ‘cos I think the albums Slow Train Coming and Good As I Been To You are as close to his classic work as TOOM and Love And Theft.

marc402

03-13-2004, 12:15 PM

i got on my american friends to tape it for me :)
i can't get enough of that clip with lindsey on the phone
"oh we are not lindsey why are you saying that "
can't wait for the whole show
it will be a gem in the collection ;)

sodascouts

03-13-2004, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by bucknick201
I just watched the infamous "clips." The clip where Lindsey is making his case to Stevie is at a minimum precious. As a person who put's in security equipment, this shot is from a bullet or "pinhole" camera i.e... they weren't aware of the recording.

I wonder how many "secret cameras" there were, and how much of the footage from them Lindsey allowed on the final product? I can't wait for Sunday!

gldstwmn

03-13-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Gazza
It's a great song, but to give an example of what I don't like with Dylan...

Johnny's in the basement
Mixing up the medicine
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in the trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he's got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off
Look out kid
It's somethin' you did
God knows when
But you're doin' it again
You better duck down the alley way
Lookin' for a new friend
The man in the coon-skin cap
In the big pen
Wants eleven dollar bills
You only got ten

Maggie comes fleet foot
Face full of black soot
Talkin' that the heat put
Plants in the bed but
The phone's tapped anyway
Maggie says that many say
They must bust in early May
Orders from the D. A.
Look out kid
Don't matter what you did
Walk on your tip toes
Don't try "No Doz"
Better stay away from those
That carry around a fire hose
Keep a clean nose
Watch the plain clothes
You don't need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows

Get sick, get well
Hang around a ink well
Ring bell, hard to tell
If anything is goin' to sell
Try hard, get barred
Get back, write braille
Get jailed, jump bail
Join the army, if you fail
Look out kid
You're gonna get hit
But users, cheaters
Six-time losers
Hang around the theaters
Girl by the whirlpool
Lookin' for a new fool
Don't follow leaders
Watch the parkin' meters

Ah get born, keep warm
Short pants, romance, learn to dance
Get dressed, get blessed
Try to be a success
Please her, please him, buy gifts
Don't steal, don't lift
Twenty years of schoolin'
And they put you on the day shift
Look out kid
They keep it all hid
Better jump down a manhole
Light yourself a candle
Don't wear sandals
Try to avoid the scandals
Don't wanna be a bum
You better chew gum
The pump don't work
'Cause the vandals took the handles

When I was younger the video for this bollocks would come on, and I'd cry. You've got to be smacked up your tits to want to listen to that one.

I think "Whatever colours you have in your mind, I'll show them to you, and you'll see them shine" is worth so much more.

I've always had a love/hate thing with Dylan though... I remember when I was very young my Dad would be playing stuff like Love In Vain, Like A Rolling Stone or I Want You, but then they'd be followed by the aptly titled Desolation Row.

Saying that, I'll probably have it played at my funeral - just to let everyone know what misery really is before I go.

Dude! This song is great. It definitely speaks to the time it was written. Rap got nothin' on Dylan.

gldstwmn

03-13-2004, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by dissention
I say many positive things about Stevie :D But some people don't seem to recognize that because it doesn't support their bashing. :laugh:

I think Dylan is a genius, seriously. You don't even have to listen to his music, you can just read his lyrics and books. One line just has so much meaning that it's astounding. :)

:nod: :nod: :nod:

He's definitely an acquired taste. It's like Stevie. You either get him or you don't. And yes, I find their lyrical styling quite similar.

dissention

03-13-2004, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Dude! This song is great. It definitely speaks to the time it was written. Rap got nothin' on Dylan.

:nod: That song is one of his masterpieces. I always saw similarities between it and "Tombstone Blues" (another amazing song!).

4Buck

03-13-2004, 01:35 PM

i can't get enough of that clip with lindsey on the phone
"oh we are not lindsey why are you saying that "

>>>>Of course these video clips are out of context, but Nicks' abrasiveness and hot temper really are annoying on LINDSEY AND STEVIE'S MIX-UP clip.

>>>>I can see why Buckingham exploded at her!....And why he always did!>>>>

gldstwmn

03-13-2004, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by face of glass
[BDylan hasn’t really had a “comeback” period of sorts (except in 1974 with Planet Waves), he’s always kept on making albums. When FM did the Dance they gained a lot of new fans. I think that’s the main reason to why there aren’t as many fanatical young Dylan fans as there are with Fleetwood Mac. Dylan hasn’t needed publicity stunts for a long time.

[/B]

His best inadvertent publicity stunt was also the mark of another comeback for him-winning a grammy award while some half naked guy jumped on stage and danced around him at the ceremony with the words "SOY BOMB" painted on his chest. Dylan didn't even look at him, just kept on playing, it was classic. The tour that followed with Paul Simon was incredible. I happened to be at the sound check for the first show of that tour and walked in to the two of them playing Sounds Of Silence. Then they went into Ring Of Fire. Then they proceeded to just sit on the stage and jam for forty minutes. It was one of those moments in your life where you go "Is this really happening?" And it is one of my favorite musical moments ever.

Merf

03-13-2004, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by 4Buck
>>>>Of course these video clips are out of context, but Nicks' abrasiveness and hot temper really are annoying on LINDSEY AND STEVIE'S MIX-UP clip.

>>>>I can see why Buckingham exploded at her!....And why he always did!>>>>

Oh please. :rolleyes: I've watched that clip several times and from what I saw, they BOTH have hot tempers.

I'm really tired of this Stevie vs. Lindsey bullsh*t. :rolleyes:

wondergirl9847

03-13-2004, 01:59 PM

Perhaps, Stevie should write a new song....The Boa Constrictor and the Rat.

The boa constrictor and the rat
fell in love with each other,
but they couldn't work it out
they couldn't get together.

:lol:

sparky

03-13-2004, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Perhaps, Stevie should write a new song....The Boa Constrictor and the Rat.

The boa constrictor and the rat
fell in love with each other,
but they couldn't work it out
they couldn't get together.

:lol:

LMAO !!!:blob1:

DrummerDeanna

03-13-2004, 04:14 PM

Well...I am officially excited excited excited...I can't wait til tomorrow night!!!! I have no tv...but called around to everyone I know with cable...and I've got a place to see it....and I wasn't going to watch these clips...but decided to and now I'm just totally antsy(sp?) with anticipation!!!

As for the grammar debate...I could honestly care less....it's funny because grammatical errors usually bug the crap outta me in real life...but in music I either don't notice or don't care...:shrug:

4Buck

03-13-2004, 05:40 PM

.....Notice how Nicks always seems to have an "assistant" with her. (LINDSEY & STEVIE'S MIX-UP) At least we finally see her in this clip. But I seriously wonder how Nicks' memory is doing these days........

........I remember Nicks being interviewed by phone in Atlanta last year and she said she was so happy she was back in that city to dine at her favorite restaurant......... When the interviewer asked which restaurant it was, Nicks asked her "assistant” (in the background) "what was the name of that restaurant that I liked?"

......And then the bit at Buckingham's SOUND STAGE performance last year. Some fan hollered out for her to sing FROZEN LOVE >>>>a song that NICKS wrote herself!!!>>>>and she could only remember the FIRST TWO LINES!!! Whereas Buckingham performed a whole new 2-hour concert repertoire for memory – with NEW verbal intros that night.

Then with Nicks, the SOUNDSTAGE duo only performed 2 songs that she already was performing daily on tour: The lovely, SAY GOODBYE and harmony on Bucks’ NEVER GOING BACK AGAIN. No new songs for Buckingham's PBS show from Stevie.

>>>>>I think the real reason the SYW set list hasn't changed is that Stevie Nicks' memory is shot!

And how many newbie fans own a "record?" Nicks still thinks the bands' albums come out on vinyl! ......"this is from our latest 'record'" she says at concerts.....

Buckingham even finishes songs for her at shows.....and the list goes on........

>>>>Lastly..... for a woman who claims she’s "too much of a lady" to do coke up her derriere, Nicks has a VERY unfeminine explosive temper. Surely scares the heck out of me! Wow.

Hawkeye

03-13-2004, 10:21 PM

And how many newbie fans own a "record?" Nicks still thinks the bands' albums come out on vinyl! ......"this is from our latest 'record'" she says at concerts.....

COME ON everyone still freaking says that. Record and Album is just the staple name for a new release. Even new 20 year old artists talk about their new record. And Oh yeah the grammy is STILL for record of the year not CD of the year.

Buckingham even finishes songs for her at shows.....and the list goes on........

Are you kidding me. He does that when she breaks down in the middle of a song, not from forgetting the words. And that's happened once this tour.

DownOnRodeo

03-13-2004, 11:21 PM

Stevie actually said 'This is from our new CD, Say You Will' in Sydney. I was surprised by this because even I speak in terms of 'records' and 'albums'.

Merf

03-14-2004, 12:39 AM

Joe.

That picture of Stevie and Lindsey in your banner-- the new one? I must.have.it.

Pretty please? With cherries on top?

I will love you forever. Because I already do! :)

EDITED: Marissa is sending me a copy. I love that picture. Like ohmahguh. Beautiful!

DownOnRodeo

03-14-2004, 01:05 AM

Lauren and Jo took it at the last Australian show. It happened in the final seconds (literally) that the band was onstage, and Lindsey was all over Stevie near the exit while Mick was doing his speil about being good to one another (I guess Lindsey wanted to oblige! :laugh: )
And the Lindsey image is from my pic with him in the lobby of the Brisbane hotel! (Stalking pays, people!)

strandinthewind

03-14-2004, 09:45 AM

I was there. She sang the fist two or so lines from Frozen Love and stopped. I think she said - that's all I can remember because she did not want to do it unrehearsed in front of the camera at a show that was not her show. Imagine if LB sang Trouble at SN's Soundstage :shrug: Also, she had not sang it live in at least 30 years. Give her a break :laugh:

teedee

03-14-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Leave my shurgs alone :laugh:

I tend to agree with you here, but WHAT I REALLY HATE :laugh: is when La Nicks refers to herself as "she," although that works in some instances. An instance where it does not work IMO is the song "Love Is" from TISL. The whole "she fell to the floor" part just makes me go ICK. But, its her stuff I guess and even with that she is better than most. :cool:

this post isnt directed at anyone specific, i just wanted to say that Stevie is a song writer, sometimes she maybe the subject of her songs, sometimes it may be about someone else. but to start to pick apart "who she is referring to or to try to get inside her head as to what she means" its a song, nothing more and i think that it sounds better the way stevie wrote it. to try and pick who and what she is talking about, takes away from it being a song.... sometimes stevies songs are about events in other peoples lives and she refers to them as "she or he" we never know who exactly she is talking about.. so what are we to ask of her next, ahhh stevie can you just use their name next time so we know what you mean and who you mean ,,,,,, no way, Stevie keep doing what you have been doing... when a song is tooooo simple its boring, its not our duty to try to figure out just what she means or who she is referring to, as a task ,,, its fun to imagine we know who she is referring to but i would never ask her to change her style of writing. i for one like that her songs are complex that they make you want to pick it apart and say wow, what does she mean by that! but its a song and what sounds better in a song is what works,, just my opinion.

teedee

03-14-2004, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
At the risk of piling on against Stevie, I have to agree with this as well. Very few people come close to Dylan, and Stevie ain't one of them.

"ain't", lol

CarneVaca

03-14-2004, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by teedee
"ain't", lol

An intentional use of colloquialism for effect. :laugh:

teedee

03-14-2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by dissention
I very much agree, but only to an extent. Dylan's music will have a lot more meaning to someone who grew up listening to it while it was being churned out in the 60s and 70s and they'll be able to get a better grasp of his music because they knew what he was getting at during those times. But I also think that not growing up during those eras has its benefits, too. I think that someone under 30 who enjoys his music may perhaps have a great appreciation for it because they can relate to it without being there, so to speak. Get what I'm saying? :)

Exactly.... there is no bigger compliment than a new young fan appreciating the music of an artist who has been around for a long long time, in other words the music is more than just your older brothers music.. know what i mean.?

CarneVaca

03-14-2004, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by sodascouts
It's that dazzling intellect of yours. Presumably, it would take at LEAST four decades to amass your vast store of wisdom. Under 40? I stand amazed in your presence! ;)

And you yourself show a rather perspicacious kind of wisdom by acknowledging as much. :laugh: :laugh:

CarneVaca

03-14-2004, 11:41 AM

[i]......And then the bit at Buckingham's SOUND STAGE performance last year. Some fan hollered out for her to sing FROZEN LOVE >>>>a song that NICKS wrote herself!!!>>>>and she could only remember the FIRST TWO LINES!!! Whereas Buckingham performed a whole new 2-hour concert repertoire for memory – with NEW verbal intros that night.
[/B]

I happen to agree with you on the prima donna issue. It's undeniably there.

But out of a sense of fairness, your comment above is too harsh. When you write a lot, you're going to forget a lot of what you wrote. I wrote songs last year that I couldn't play right now without looking at the lyric sheet and the chords. The ones I play often come to me automatically.

This happens to most performers, though I am sure there are exceptions. But, hey, the Stones actually have to relearn a bunch of their own songs when they rehearse to go on tour. After all, these people are just human.

teedee

03-14-2004, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by 4Buck
.....Notice how Nicks always seems to have an "assistant" with her. (LINDSEY & STEVIE'S MIX-UP) At least we finally see her in this clip. But I seriously wonder how Nicks' memory is doing these days........

........I remember Nicks being interviewed by phone in Atlanta last year and she said she was so happy she was back in that city to dine at her favorite restaurant......... When the interviewer asked which restaurant it was, Nicks asked her "assistant” (in the background) "what was the name of that restaurant that I liked?"

......And then the bit at Buckingham's SOUND STAGE performance last year. Some fan hollered out for her to sing FROZEN LOVE >>>>a song that NICKS wrote herself!!!>>>>and she could only remember the FIRST TWO LINES!!! Whereas Buckingham performed a whole new 2-hour concert repertoire for memory – with NEW verbal intros that night.

Then with Nicks, the SOUNDSTAGE duo only performed 2 songs that she already was performing daily on tour: The lovely, SAY GOODBYE and harmony on Bucks’ NEVER GOING BACK AGAIN. No new songs for Buckingham's PBS show from Stevie.

>>>>>I think the real reason the SYW set list hasn't changed is that Stevie Nicks' memory is shot!

And how many newbie fans own a "record?" Nicks still thinks the bands' albums come out on vinyl! ......"this is from our latest 'record'" she says at concerts.....

Buckingham even finishes songs for her at shows.....and the list goes on........

>>>>Lastly..... for a woman who claims she’s "too much of a lady" to do coke up her derriere, Nicks has a VERY unfeminine explosive temper. Surely scares the heck out of me! Wow.

Unfeminie explosive temper..... we all have a temper, so if a man shows his temper is he being masculine? give me a break. and as for her memory or her assistant being present , so what. frozen love, yeah was written years ago and not performed since. i dont know what songs lindsey sang on his special, but what does that mean that lindsey has a great memory and stevie doesnt? who really cares.. frozen love is an old song. Im not defending stevie to say she remembers everything cuase hell i cant remember Sh* t myself and i didnt do drugs, and anyway some artists use telapromters (spelling oops) i really dont care if they remember them or what,,, alll im saying if they sing an old song on tour every night , the song will come back to them .. can you honestly remember every thing you ever said or did or wrote years ago...? I dont think any one can just say a quick yes , without having to jog ones memory even if for a second. Just my opinion.

teedee

03-14-2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
An intentional use of colloquialism for effect. :laugh:

Mute ? im only pointing it out that you mentioned you were in a debate about the English language ,. then i see the use of ain't and mute by you. i thought it was funny, cause you have been picking at stevie's usage of words and then i saw ain't, lol..

Johnny Stew

03-14-2004, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I happen to agree with you on the prima donna issue. It's undeniably there.

But out of a sense of fairness, your comment above is too harsh.To continue on the theme of fairness... all the members of the Rumours-era lineup (with the exception of John) can be cast as prima donnas for various behaviours over the years.

That's another "fault" that Stevie doesn't hold the market on, in Fleetwood Mac. :nod: :)

Johnny Stew

03-14-2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by teedee
Mute ? im only pointing it out that you mentioned you were in a debate about the English language ,. then i see the use of ain't and mute by you. i thought it was funny, cause you have been picking at stevie's usage of words and then i saw ain't, lol.. Actually, the "mute point" comment stemmed from a typo earlier in the thread.
It seems that Carne was just poking some good-natured fun at what was supposed to have read "moot point." :)

I tend to avoid pointing out typos... even in good humour... as we all make 'em.
Yep, even Carne! ;) :laugh:

CarneVaca

03-14-2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Actually, the "mute point" comment stemmed from a typo earlier in the thread.
It seems that Carne was just poking some good-natured fun at what was supposed to have read "moot point." :)

I tend to avoid pointing out typos... even in good humour... as we all make 'em.
Yep, even Carne! ;) :laugh:

Yes, Johnny, you had that right. And, yes, I make atrocious tupos occasionally. ;)

teedee

03-14-2004, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Yes, Johnny, you had that right. And, yes, I make atrocious tupos occasionally. ;)

In my reading, i thought someone was correcting Carne, about it should be moot instead of mute, no biggie, its just that everyone was getting so technical about stevies wordings and why should it be any different for our own wordings lol.... oh well

Nightbird_Brett

03-14-2004, 08:20 PM

It's been my observation that those under the age of 40 just don't "get" Bob Dylan. You kind of have to have "been there" when he was at his early peak to really understand him. If there's anyone who is a BIG Bob Dylan fan and you're under 40, let me know. It's like being a teenage Beatle fan...sure I can see where you'd like their music, but how can you REALLY be into the Beatles, when you weren't "there" to first hand feel the musical & sociological events as they happened. Know what I mean?

Sorry Chili,
But I don't know what you mean. I'm 21 years old and I own ALL 46 of Dylan's albums. I am also own nearly every Beatles album and totally "get" both of these amazing musicians. That's the great thing about good music---it stands the test of time. I also believe that history repeats itself. So looking at it from a sociological standpoint, I can totally relate their lyrics to what is going on in my life or the world around me.

I had to put in my two cents here. It took me back to the time when I was first in line to buy Stevie concert tickets and they had this a**hole in back of me who was pissed that I wouldn't let him go first. He kept saying that I didn't understand Stevie---that I was just a child. :mad:

So anyway, thanks for letting me vent.

4Buck

03-16-2004, 06:20 PM

we all have a temper

I don't.

so if a man shows his temper is he being masculine?

Yes. ;)

Turns out there was only one Nicks blow-up in the entire doc.
But it did leave an indelible impression. Even scared me the second time I watched the special.......

Nicks has a very pretty face. But she should work on her personality. It's never too late.....:)

diamondsnake

03-16-2004, 06:49 PM

4Buck

03-16-2004, 07:04 PM

To refresh your memory without going through the whole doc, Nicks' outburst is on the "Lindsey and Stevie's Mixing Mix-up" video clip.....

NoQuestionsAskd

03-17-2004, 06:22 AM

That wasn't particularly scary.

teedee

03-17-2004, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by 4Buck
I don't.

Yes. ;)

Turns out there was only one Nicks blow-up in the entire doc.
But it did leave an indelible impression. Even scared me the second time I watched the special.......

Nicks has a very pretty face. But she should work on her personality. It's never too late.....:)

so a man showing his temper is masculine and when a woman does it and she is no longer feminine. yeah ok. out of curiousity what left such an indelible impression on you enough to scare you !!!! you scare easily huh? as far as Stevies personality, where was it lacking, as compared to everyone else? I dont know if you are a new fan of Stevies, but she has always been a very loving warm funny interesting personality to watch on stage and in interviews, I thought with what footage they showed everyone was in good, but also please keep in mind it was 80 minutes long but originally it was much much longer. we have only been showed very choppy edits of conversations that im sure went on for much much longer, in other words we didnt get the full story on these little tid bits that they showed us!