Haiti

[gldstwmn]

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8833298%5E1702,00.html

US troops 'made Aristide leave'
From correspondents in Paris
March 1, 2004

HAITIAN leader Jean Bertrand Aristide was taken away from his home by US soldiers, it was claimed today.

A man who said he was a caretaker for the now exiled president told France's RTL radio station the troops forced Aristide out.

"The American army came to take him away at two in the morning," the man said.

"The Americans forced him out with weapons.

"It was American soldiers. They came with a helicopter and they took the security guards.


"(Aristide) was not happy. He did not want to be taken away. He did not want to leave. He was not able to fight against the Americans."

The RTL journalist who carried out the interview described the man as a "frightened old man, crouched in a corner" who said he was the "caretaker of the residence".

Aristide fled Haiti today in the face of an armed revolt. The United States has ordered Marines to the Caribbean state to help restore order.

Agence France-Presse

[dissention]

I suspected that. :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

There is an article about it at www.commondreams.com.

My question is who cares and why didn't they do that with SH and avoid all of the current crapola we are in :mad:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
There is an article about it at www.commondreams.com.

My question is who cares and why didn't they do that with SH and avoid all of the current crapola we are in :mad:

A little history: Bush I did the exact same thing 13 years ago after the US backed candidate (an official of the World Bank) was defeated in Haiti.
We just toppled a democratically elected government. I care. This administration is dangerous!
Next stop Venezuela?

[gldstwmn]

BTW, that link is www.commondreams.org

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
My question is who cares and why didn't they do that with SH and avoid all of the current crapola we are in :mad:

I care and there is no comparing Aristide and Hussein. It's ludicrous.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
A little history: Bush I did the exact same thing 13 years ago after the US backed candidate (an official of the World Bank) was defeated in Haiti.
We just toppled a democratically elected government. I care. This administration is dangerous!
Next stop Venezuela?

But - my point is the U.S. has been doing this forever. I agree this guy was not SH - I was referring to the ease at which this guy has been removed and lamenting with sarcasm that SH should have been removed this way :cool:

Interestingly, should we have sent in the full weight of the armed forces and killed hundreds of people and also suffered casualties? Or, is this way better. I think this way is better. Also, I think this guy went willingly - wouldn't you rather than face a lynch mob in your own country and it looked like this guy was headed that way :shrug: Maybe we should have done nothing and let Haiti clean itself up?

[DeeGeMe]

I'm sure the spin will be "We just cordially invited him to leave."

[strandinthewind]

ABC news just reported the Pres. asked last week in the U.S. would help him get protection, leave, etc. Again, I think this guy was begging to leave rather than be lynched.

http://abcnews.go.com/

[greatdarkwing]

OK guys, let me give you the Miami angle....first off, let me say that Miami has been CRAZY the past week with all this stuff going on in Haiti. Miami is full of Haitian refugees, and they alll practically live in a 10 mile by ten mile strip known as "little Haiti"....a "little Havana" also exists, but is much more bigger. Well, to say the least, half of the country of Haiti, and half the exiles are split on the issue. There are many who support Aristede (sp?) but many who dont support him. Haiti has been in trouble for a while now, and I predicted an uprising would happen sooner or later 2 years ago. Haiti has always been overrun by corruption and the people have suffered for it.....Taking a walk throught the streets of Haiti is quite a shocker....wooden huts, people living in feces (sp? lol)...Haiti has not been blessed with wealth.

Well, a few weeks ago, word of an uprising was spreading fast here, and the local govt was trying to prepare for it. Local leaders were begging the Haitian caught at sea policy to be revised

(This policy states that any Haitian that makes it to the U.S., Or is caught at sea is to be returned)

Of course, local govts wanted the law to be changed, like one given for Cuban refugees

(This policy is called the "Wet foot Dry foot" policy. For Cubans, if you make it to shore, you are allowed to stay)

For years, this has upest the Haitians and there have been many political struggles between the 2 communities (Frankly, I think the policy should be changed for Haitians now, given the situation)

Well, low and behold, a group of 40 Haitians hijacked a boat and brought it here, but the coastguard caught them before they reached shore. They were returned to Haiti 2 days ago...It will come to no shock to any1 that the Haitian community was outraged, and protests, similar to ones during the Elian crisis erupted.

Hopefully this gives you a better insight into all the political problems this is causing here in Miami...Feel free to ask any question and I will do my best to answer them
:nod: Side Note: I saw pictures today of Haiti, and I was DEEPLY disturbed....Haiti looks llike a garbage can any day of the week, but this was terrible....It looked like a tornado had passed through and destroyed the capital....then they showed cars with bodies falling out of them....terrible and haunting...

~Alex

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
I'm sure the spin will be "We just cordially invited him to leave."

:nod: :nod: Alas, you're psychic.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
ABC news just reported the Pres. asked last week in the U.S. would help him get protection, leave, etc. Again, I think this guy was begging to leave rather than be lynched.

http://abcnews.go.com/

No, Aristide was never going to step down until his term was up. I think the way the US is handling this is just another example of us not knowing or ass from our elbow. ;) The neocons are trying to justify the forcing out of Aristide as a way to "change the government in Haiti." Yeah, so why can't we force out our own president at whim or have another country do it for us? This superpower bull**** has got to end.

[Ali]

Originally posted by dissention
This superpower bull**** has got to end.

It's only gonna end when everybody else stops wimping out and someone decides to finally step up to the plate (::coughSOMEONEINWESTERNEUROPEcough:: ). Until then, we're alone.

[Merf]

Originally posted by Ali
It's only gonna end when everybody else stops wimping out and someone decides to finally step up to the plate (::coughSOMEONEINWESTERNEUROPEcough:: ). Until then, we're alone.

Ali: just a comment on your banner, honey...

I think it's ironic that Dubya's pictures have been made into a colorbar banner, a banner that *originally* was made to support gay marriage, which of course, Dubya wants to ban. :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

ABC got that info. from another country. Who knows if it is true. My question is what interest do we have in Haiti? Certainly not oil :cool:

[dissention]

Originally posted by Ali
It's only gonna end when everybody else stops wimping out and someone decides to finally step up to the plate (::coughSOMEONEINWESTERNEUROPEcough:: ). Until then, we're alone.

I just have to say something about the new banner in your sig, darling...

It hurts my eyes. :laugh:

[Ali]

I am well aware of the implicit irony. It's an expression of affection for our president, not of any representation of feelings on homosexual marriage. Which I do whole-heartedly support.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
ABC got that info. from another country. Who knows if it is true. My question is what interest do we have in Haiti? Certainly not oil :cool:

Drug money for our covert operations godknowswherelse.;) Just a thought.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Ali
It's only gonna end when everybody else stops wimping out and someone decides to finally step up to the plate (::coughSOMEONEINWESTERNEUROPEcough:: ). Until then, we're alone.

What are you talking about?

[Sarah]

Originally posted by Merf
Ali: just a comment on your banner, honey...

I think it's ironic that Dubya's pictures have been made into a colorbar banner, a banner that *originally* was made to support gay marriage, which of course, Dubya wants to ban. :rolleyes:


It's a few shades short of a rainbow, Merfdawg. But irony does hurt.


Ditch all marriages. Unions are the logical answer if we're to be consistent with separation of church & state. Just my .02 on that. People should be able to be with - legally - whoever they want. Save "marriage" for the church.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Drug money for our covert operations godknowswherelse.;) Just a thought.

The Republicans do love to sell illegal things to make an end run around that obstructionist thing called Congress :laugh: Can you say Iran/Contra and our American hero Ollie "hey - I was just following orders" North :laugh:

But, why do we need Haiti? I thought that was what we were doing in Afganistan with all of those lovely poppies adn our puppet in place :laugh: :shrug:

P.S. Our conspiracy theory personages are showing :laugh:

[Ali]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
What are you talking about?

I'm talking about how many countries are able to step up and do a lot of the things that the US does, both militarily and charitably and yet, do neither. Then they proceed to criticize the United States for doing anything.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
The Republicans do love to sell illegal things to make an end run around that obstructionist thing called Congress :laugh: Can you say Iran/Contra and our American hero Ollie "hey - I was just following orders" North :laugh:

But, why do we need Haiti? I thought that was what we were doing in Afganistan with all of those lovely poppies adn our puppet in place :laugh: :shrug:

P.S. Our conspiracy theory personages are showing :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
We have Afganistan for Heroin, so I'm suspecting weed and the white marching powder could be channeled through Haiti.
And yes, God knows the CIA and spook community can't be using good old Murikan tax dollars for this stuff. They have to use money that doesn't leave a trace.;) :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Ali
I'm talking about how many countries are able to step up and do a lot of the things that the US does, both militarily and charitably and yet, do neither. Then they proceed to criticize the United States for doing anything.

Are you talking about Iraq?

[greatdarkwing]

BTW, Things in Venezuela are getting VERY ugly...

~Alex

[Ali]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Are you talking about Iraq?

Well, kind of. I'm talking about a large amount of Western Europe. France and Germany in particular. They could be doing the same things as the US, both good and bad, but they're both too wimpish to step up to the world stage.

Let them wallow in their surrendered sovereignty. I hate the EU...but that's a whole other story altogether.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Ali
Well, kind of. I'm talking about a large amount of Western Europe. France and Germany in particular. They could be doing the same things as the US, both good and bad, but they're both too wimpish to step up to the world stage.

Let them wallow in their surrendered sovereignty. I hate the EU...but that's a whole other story altogether.

Are you forgetting that those countries are democracy's? If the people of those countries don't want to invade Iraq for selfish reasons like our country, good for them. They're smarter folks than the ones in the US (I would bet money that 75% of our citizens couldn't name our last ten presidents) and they know bull**** when they see it, the Iraq war being an example of said bull****. It isn't about being "wimpish", it's about right and wrong and they knew that invading Iraq was wrong.

As for hating the EU, they hate us, too. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Ali


I hate

Ah, yes. The true hallmark of a Bush supporter. Love is hate and black is white. Best of luck to you.:wavey:

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Ah, yes. The true hallmark of a Bush supporter. Love is hate and black is white. Best of luck to you.:wavey:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Ali
Well, kind of. I'm talking about a large amount of Western Europe. France and Germany in particular. They could be doing the same things as the US, both good and bad, but they're both too wimpish to step up to the world stage.

Let them wallow in their surrendered sovereignty. I hate the EU...but that's a whole other story altogether.

Ali - I agree the European countries seem to have only their interest at heart most fo the time. but, they are still our allies, etc. Personally, I think all countries including the U.S. usually act in their own self-interest 99% of the time and tout it as benovolent. I mean now we are saying we invaded Iraq to provide freedom for her citizens. But, that was not the reason we went in there, etc. The reason was to prevent Iraq for using its WMD (I know I know . . . :laugh: ) against us, which was self-serving, etc. Now - there are no WMD and we are tauting altruistic goals, etc.

[gldstwmn]

Duvalier to reign again in Haiti?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/03/02/aristide.africa/index.html

Haiti rebels threaten more strife
Boucher says U.S. won't recognize Philippe

"And Haiti's longtime dictator, Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier, told a Miami television station that he wants to return to his homeland but denied he is interested in seeking the country's presidency."

[strandinthewind]

and we overthrew SH because HE was a bad person :shrug: YEt we are putting these thugs in place in Haiti :shrug:

[Sarah]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
we are tauting altruistic goals, etc.

When's my gas gonna get cheaper?








:laugh:

[dissention]

Originally posted by Sarah
When's my gas gonna get cheaper?








:laugh:

When you buy a hybrid and don't have to waste so much of it. ;)

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
and we overthrew SH because HE was a bad person :shrug: YEt we are putting these thugs in place in Haiti :shrug:

And you're surprised? I've still yet to see hard evidence that proved Aristide was a corrupt bad guy. And I thought that no country could force out an elected president? This whole thing is just as appalling as the guy who calls himself our president. :rolleyes:

[Sarah]

Originally posted by dissention
When you buy a hybrid and don't have to waste so much of it. ;)

I would consider it if they weren't always so ugly. (No offense to anyone who might have one. I've just never seen one that's aesthetically pleasing to me.)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Sarah
When's my gas gonna get cheaper?

:laugh:

NEVER - that is the end of this. All of that drilling cost money, but thank you W for clearing the way :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
And you're surprised? I've still yet to see hard evidence that proved Aristide was a corrupt bad guy. And I thought that no country could force out an elected president? This whole thing is just as appalling as the guy who calls himself our president. :rolleyes:

I am sure Aristide was not a good person, but I am even surer the people they are replacing him with are knoen thugs, hence the topic of my previous post and the sarcastic SH analogy.