I miss Christine!

[diamondsnake]

Heavy Sigh! Christine, if you are out there- come back!!! I was just listening to some of her songs and I want her back!!!! :blob2:

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Heavy Sigh! Christine, if you are out there- come back!!! I was just listening to some of her songs and I want her back now!!!! :blob2:

This is so depressing! :laugh:

[secondhandchain]

Me too! To be honest with everyone this CD did not do it for me. There was something about the chemistry of the three songwriters and the balance it created. I tried to love this album but I never play it. I keep going back to Tusk.

[Gailh]

I didn't realise how much I missed Christine until I saw them at Earls Court at the end of Nov. The very first line of the very first song!

Then on the strength of the rumour that she would play on 10 Dec I went again!

I like Say You Will (even though I think it's too long) but the songs where Christine sings are almost too much to bear.

Gail

[Gazza]

Just to put the other side across... I'm quite happy she's not there :)

[mike1982]

i miss her also, does anyone know what the deal is with her solo album?

[dissention]

I could care less if she's there or not.

I've always loved her songs on the albums, but they mostly fall flat when played live (with the exception of my three faves Songbird, Oh Daddy, and Say You Love Me). There's something about her songs being played right after a lindsey tune or Stevie tune that doesn't click well onstage.

However, if she wants to do another studio album, I'll snap it up.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree her elements are sorely missed (harmony, keyboards, piano). I also believe the rest of the band misses her too, especially Stevie and Mick. When you spend 30 + years with someone it's a big adjustment.

But if you think about the life Fleetwood Mac has had, it's far from glamourous. She's living life now while she still has time.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I didn't miss her at all on this tour. Personally I can't stand Little Lies or Everywhere and no doubt they would have been on the set list if she had been there

Pip

[GypsySorcerer]

I didn't find myself thinking of Chris too much during the concerts -- except during Don't Stop and Goodbye Baby. Goodbye Baby is a great song, but it doesn't come close to moving me the way Songbird does. I miss her harmonizing, though. Without her, the backup vocals are way too loud.

And on Say You Will, I would have inserted some Chris songs in place of the few clinkers on the album.

As someone said, I do think Mick and Stevie miss her too.

[dissention]

Originally posted by GypsySorcerer
As someone said, I do think Mick and Stevie miss her too.

Yeah, 'cause Mick would try to have the ticket prices even more expensive if Chirs was there. ;)

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by [email protected]
But if you think about the life Fleetwood Mac has had, it's far from glamourous.

Huh!?

[CarneVaca]

Considering I didn't care for her songs on Time or that atrocious Temporary One, nor did I ever get into her solo stuff, I couldn't care less that she's gone. Really, were it up to me, it would just be Lindsey, Mick and John. But you already know that... ;)

[chiliD]

I kind of wonder what would've happened if Bob Welch never left.

[DrummerDeanna]

Oh...I KNEW something was different lol...just kidding...yeah, I agree with the non-missers around here...I like Chris okay, but her songs are not my favorite and as far as her not being in the band, I honestly didn't give her a second thought once Stevie walked out on stage...I think it would be cool to see all four of them...but it's not something I agonize about...

[shackin'up]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
I didn't miss her at all on this tour. Personally I can't stand Little Lies or Everywhere and no doubt they would have been on the set list if she had been there

Pip

Well here's another one!

On the other hand, if they had put in Why, Wish you were here, Think about me, Never Forget, Believe, Brown Eyes and ended the show with that excellent outtake-version of You'll Never Make Me Cry, well maybe I would have missed her a lot. But since that is not the case....at ALL... I can live without those spinecringing hits from TITN....

[HomerMcvie]

On the other hand, if they had put in Why, Wish you were here, Think about me, Never Forget, Believe, Brown Eyes and ended the show with that excellent outtake-version of You'll Never Make Me Cry, well maybe I would have missed her a lot. But since that is not the case....at ALL... I can live without those spinecringing hits from TITN....
And that's what I think none of them GET. That MANY of us would rather hear some different songs. Enough with Dreams, etc. Same damned songs, different tour. Oh, is that still the same dress? What's that smell?
But back to Chris. If she were to tour, and do Why, and drop Everywhere; do Never Forget, and drop Songbird, I think it would make for a much more interesting setlist.
Top five songs I'm sick of:
Dreams
I'm So Afraid
Rhiannon
Big Love acoustic
Mick's vest solo! I love WT, just hate the vest!:laugh:

[Neal]

Originally posted by HomerMcvie

Mick's vest solo! I love WT, just hate the vest!:laugh:

Ditto! He should have retired that whole act years ago... :nod:

[sodascouts]

I don't miss Christine until the end. I wish there was still a Songbird.

Frankly I think World Turning is BETTER with Stevie, if not Don't Stop.

As for Rhiannon and Mick's Drum Solo - yeah, I could do without them. But if I didn't get to hear ISA, I would feel SO cheated. Big Love is such a masterful display I never get tired of it. I also am not that big a fan of Dreams, but I understand that it would not be a good idea to remove it. Most fans love it to death, and would feel the same way I would if ISA were gone.

[Johnny Stew]

I would have loved it if Christine had stayed in the band, but I don't feel that 'Say You Will' is in any way lacking without her.

Maybe fans who find themselves disappointed in 'SYW' because of Christine's absence, should look at it this way... you're not listening to a Fleetwood Mac album that's missing something; you're listening to a Buckingham Nicks album that has gained a killer rhythm section. :nod:

Besides, we still have Christine's upcoming solo album to look forward to! :D

[HomerMcvie]

Maybe fans who find themselves disappointed in 'SYW' because of Christine's absence, should look at it this way... you're not listening to a Fleetwood Mac album that's missing something;
That's the problem. It's not a FM album. It's a BN album. IMO, Chris was what balanced it all out, literally what made it FM.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Besides, we still have Christine's upcoming solo album to look forward to! :D

From your lips to God's ears! I really hope this album sees the light of day.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by HomerMcvie
That's the problem. It's not a FM album. It's a BN album. IMO, Chris was what balanced it all out, literally what made it FM. One could say that, but keep in mind that the "Fleetwood Mac sound" that we're specifically discussing... the block harmonies, the radio-friendly pop/rock, etc.... all pretty much came to fruition once Lindsey and Stevie joined.

To my ears, 'SYW' sounds very much like a Fleetwood Mac album, because it features all of the hallmarks of a classic Mac album.
I don't personally feel that it sounds like 'Buckingham Nicks 2'... it's merely my suggestion on how one could look at it, if they're disappointed with it.
But, in my opinion, all of the Mac production sensibilities are firmly in place, and it sounds like "Fleetwood Mac."
It's just a "heavier" sound in places, because the songs are more guitar-oriented without Christine there.

But there are plenty of block harmonies, glimmering sonic nuances, and radio-friendly touches, too. :)

[marc402]

I agree 100% with Johnny here.
I do miss christine and i do like her song (also the TITN stuff) and look toward her soloalbum
but i did not miss her on either the album or the tour.
Life goes on without chris in the band
besides i can always play old chris song whenever i want to ;)

[macfan 57]

Originally posted by HomerMcvie
That's the problem. It's not a FM album. It's a BN album. IMO, Chris was what balanced it all out, literally what made it FM.

I completely agree with HomerMcvie here. Considering that SYW has really sold as if it's merely 2 Buckingham/Nicks solo albums, I think quite a few other people probably feel the same way. As for missing Chris, well since I don't care anything at all about the current line-up or anything that they're doing, I really am only listening to old Fleetwood Mac stuff anyway. So, I think of her as still being in Fleetwood Mac, kind of as a permanent member like Peter Green. I, too am really looking forward to her solo album.

[RhainnonRings]

What are you talking about???

Of course its a FM album.

This pisses me off. If it weren't for Mick then there would be no Stevie or Lindsey. And I thin people tend to forget that and leave Mick and John out in the backround.

They turned SYW into a FM slbum because warners knew that Lindseys solo album would SUCK on the charts. And it would.

I miss Christine a whole lot. Theres not one song I skip of her on a bootleg or CD.

Jimmy

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
One could say that, but keep in mind that the "Fleetwood Mac sound" that we're specifically discussing... the block harmonies, the radio-friendly pop/rock, etc.... all pretty much came to fruition once Lindsey and Stevie joined.

To my ears, 'SYW' sounds very much like a Fleetwood Mac album, because it features all of the hallmarks of a classic Mac album.
I don't personally feel that it sounds like 'Buckingham Nicks 2'... it's merely my suggestion on how one could look at it, if they're disappointed with it.
But, in my opinion, all of the Mac production sensibilities are firmly in place, and it sounds like "Fleetwood Mac."
It's just a "heavier" sound in places, because the songs are more guitar-oriented without Christine there.

But there are plenty of block harmonies, glimmering sonic nuances, and radio-friendly touches, too. :)

I agree that it is a very heavy sounding FM album. It has always reminded me of TITN and I think it is ridiculous for people to compare it to Tusk, just because of its length. I can't see any musical similarities between the two.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by RhainnonRings
Of course its a FM album.

This pisses me off. If it weren't for Mick then there would be no Stevie or Lindsey. And I thin people tend to forget that and leave Mick and John out in the backround.

They turned SYW into a FM slbum because warners knew that Lindseys solo album would SUCK on the charts. And it would.

It's not like SYW is burnin' up the charts as it is, though. :shrug:

Originally posted by RhainnonRings
I miss Christine a whole lot. Theres not one song I skip of her on a bootleg or CD.

I still miss Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan & Bob Welch, Rick Vito, Billy Burnette & Bekka Bramlett, too. Plus, after 31 years, I'm just starting to realize Bob Weston's contributions. Just add Christine to the list.

I prefer listening to Dave Mason as a solo artist...and Dave Walker as a member of Savoy Brown rather than Fleetwood Mac.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by chiliD
It's not like SYW is burnin' up the charts as it is, though. :shrug:


Number three on the charts is not that bad!

[chiliD]

What chart?

It's not in Billboard's Top 100. That's pretty much the industry standard.

[dissention]

Originally posted by RhainnonRings
This pisses me off. If it weren't for Mick then there would be no Stevie or Lindsey. And I thin people tend to forget that and leave Mick and John out in the backround.

They turned SYW into a FM slbum because warners knew that Lindseys solo album would SUCK on the charts. And it would.


Yeah, and if Mick and John didn't have Stevie and Lindsey, their attempts at a Fleetwood Mac album would suck on the charts. But since when do chart positions matter if the music is good?

[jbrownsjr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Huh!?

If you call doing drugs, never getting married and sleeping in strange hotel rooms glamourous, more power to you! I think we tend to think having money and playing on a stage night after night is heaven. I'm guessing it wouldn't be for everyone. And I think Christine paid her dues with FM and decided to live in a different kind of glamour, "family, friends and home."

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by chiliD
It's not in Billboard's Top 100. That's pretty much the industry standard. Well, it's not on the charts now, but it did debut at #3 on Billboard's Top 200 Albums chart, and did quite respectably sales-wise (approx. 800,000 copies sold)... all things considered.

As much as I was hoping it would hit #1 (and it still might have, if it had been released just one week earlier), I realize we shouldn't hold it up to the numbers 'The Dance' did.
'The Dance' had a lot of amazing buzz behind it, given the monumental occasion of having all five members of the 'Rumours' lineup back together after a decade, and being that it was also the 20th anniversary of 'Rumours,' and that the concert was aired on MTV, VH1 and PBS stations several dozen times for months.

Even if Christine were still an active member of the band, I believe Fleetwood Mac's days of selling several million copies of a brand-new studio album are behind them.
Outside of the occasional dark horse, new albums by classic rock artists just don't sell in the millions anymore... and more's the pity.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Well, it's not on the charts now, but it did debut at #3 on Billboard's Top 200 Albums chart, and did quite respectably sales-wise (approx. 800,000 copies sold)... all things considered.

As much as I was hoping it would hit #1 (and it still might have, if it had been released just one week earlier), I realize we shouldn't hold it up to the numbers 'The Dance' did.
'The Dance' had a lot of amazing buzz behind it, given the monumental occasion of having all five members of the 'Rumours' lineup back together after a decade, and being that it was also the 20th anniversary of 'Rumours,' and that the concert was aired on MTV, VH1 and PBS stations several dozen times for months.

Even if Christine were still an active member of the band, I believe Fleetwood Mac's days of selling several million copies of a brand-new studio album are behind them.
Outside of the occasional dark horse, new albums by classic rock artists just don't sell in the millions anymore... and more's the pity.

Do any new albums sell in the millions anymore? I mean, a lot of people just download the songs... Not me though.

[littlelies7]

I miss her too!

I didn't miss her much on SYW, since I was expecting her not in the album, same goes for the tour.

Still, I hope that her new album comes out!

[xdreamsunwindx]

Of course I miss Christine. As much as I love SYW, I think that there's something... missing. I don't know what it is. It could be her harmonies, her piano-playing, whatever. It's really weird, but I don't miss her songs as much as I miss her harmonies and her piano playing, and I happen to love basically all of her songs. Hopefully she'll get that damned solo album out soon.

Oh, about the "SYW IS NOT A FM ALBUM!" thing; Come on, people. It's a Fleetwood Mac album whether you want to call it one or not. Just because (insert former FM member here) isn't on an album doesn't mean that it's not a Fleetwood Mac recording :nod:

[SteveMacD]

Originally posted by [email protected]
I also believe the rest of the band misses her too, especially Stevie and Mick.

I would have thought Mick and John would have missed her the most, as this was the first Fleetwood Mac album since "Future Games" back in 1971 in which Christine didn't contribute songs. Those three went through the British blues, Benifolds, superstardom, fall from grace, and return to grace in the span of about 31 years.

[SteveMacD]

Did I miss Christine? Yes and no.

Yes, I feel SYW wasn't as nicely balanced as the other albums with Lindsey and Stevie. It could have been a better album had it been edited down (and put the songs that didn't make the album on the bonus disc for the die-hards). There were places where I really missed her vocal harmonies, too.

However, as a guitarist, I love hearing how Lindsey and John filled the musical void left by Christine (especially on "Smile At You," which is probably one of the best John McVie basslines I've ever heard). As a music fan, I loved that the band was able to go off in some directions that they probably would not have gone in had Christine been there. While I really love Christine's songs, we generally hear the same ones tour after tour. To put it another way, I'd gladly go without hearing YMLF, "Songbird," or "Everywhere" for the umpteenth time in favor of witnessing Lindsey go mad on a song like "Come." (And, I'd be happy if they'd drop "Don't Stop," but that'll never happen.)

Overall, I don't feel that SYW, album or tour, suffered from Christine not being there. It was a different experience, and the band IS different. The dynamic has changed. But, it still sounds like Fleetwood Mac. I thought I would agree about it sounding like Buckingham Nicks II before the album came out, but the sound is just so far removed that it's much more Fleetwood Mac. And anyway, Buckingham Nicks, to me, sounds like "Bare Trees" era Mac, with some elements of Peter Green thrown in.

[4Buck]

>>>We have Buckingham in his own words on why he left the band......and we hear from various FM members on why Christine left the band......

But did anyone ever hear CHRISTINE'S words on why she>>> herself>>> left????

[EveryHour]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I would have loved it if Christine had stayed in the band, but I don't feel that 'Say You Will' is in any way lacking without her.

Maybe fans who find themselves disappointed in 'SYW' because of Christine's absence, should look at it this way... you're not listening to a Fleetwood Mac album that's missing something; you're listening to a Buckingham Nicks album that has gained a killer rhythm section. :nod:

Besides, we still have Christine's upcoming solo album to look forward to! :D

:nod:

If some of you genuinely, in your heart, miss Christine so bad that you cannot even begin to swallow the current Fleetwood Mac...so be it. But I do wonder if some are so focused on her absence that it's almost like you can't give youreselves permission, if you will, to like the band without her. Maybe if you think of it as Johnny Stew has presented here, you won't be so sore. And I ADORE Chris. She should ultimately do what makes her happy, or else we'd have a thread right now saying, "Boy, Chris sure looks unhappy this Mac tour.":)

[David]

Originally posted by EveryHour
If some of you genuinely, in your heart, miss Christine so bad that you cannot even begin to swallow the current Fleetwood Mac...so be it. But I do wonder if some are so focused on her absence that it's almost like you can't give youreselves permission, if you will, to like the band without her. And then there's my situation: the reasons I don't really love the band now have nothing to do with Christine's absence/retirement.

Another point I want to address is the view (common even among the bandmembers themselves) that the sound is more guitar-based because Christine is out of the picture. That's ridiculous. Christine was never Keith Emerson or Billy Joel. Her keyboards on FM albums didn't occupy a central place like the playing of those guys. In fact, the parts she recorded on most of the songs were generally a subtle addition to the rhythm, not a lavish piano arrangement in the spotlight. Even on "Songbird," you could argue (& I do) that the piano arrangement & performance are a subdued rhythm guitar effect (which helps it blend so nicely with the actual acoustic guitar on the track).

So what's my point? I don't know. I can't remember. I think it's that, if the band's sound in the past ("Tusk" or "Mirage" or "Tango") wasn't guitar-based, it's because the BAND decided to make itself sound that way (Lindsey's doing, possibly), not because Christine was there bashing away on her piano or her synthesizer. Conversely, if the band's sound is more guitar-based nowadays, it's because the band decided to sound that way, not because Christine's keyboard playing is virtually absent. The fact is that there are plenty of keyboard & synth parts on the "Say You Will" album, & many of them are a LOT more central to the mix than any number of keyboard parts she concocted in the past.

Further, many of us know by now that a lot of what sounded like keyboards on albums like "Mirage" was actually guitar. So if something like "Straight Back" sounds too "keyboardy" to you, you can probably blame LB for the fakeout.

[chiliD]

To take your point, David, and make a direct example... on SYW, the "synth" on "Everybody Finds Out" is NOT a keyboard based synth, it's Lindsey playing the part on guitar fitted with a hex pickup routed through a guitar synth.

[HomerMcvie]

To take your point, David, and make a direct example... on SYW, the "synth" on "Everybody Finds Out" is NOT a keyboard based synth, it's Lindsey playing the part on guitar fitted with a hex pickup routed through a guitar synth.
Is anyone SURE about this? I've read this before, and that "synth" line sounds too "real" to be guitar.
Now, I don't have a guitar synth, so maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about!:laugh:

[wondergirl9847]

I've heard a guitar sound (over the phone) EXACTLY like a synth where I would have SWORN it was a synth, but it was not. It's AMAZING and very cool sounding...obviously. :laugh:

[face of glass]

It's even debatable whether the whole McVie - Buckingham dynamic would be able to work after such a long time. Their last real collaboration was during the making of Tango In The Night because I believe "Temporary One" has no significant Buckingham touches in it.

I know some people have been suggesting that Chris and Lindsey were never friends, maybe even disliked each other although they still worked together musically. I'm not going to discuss that one in detail but it might be a valid point. Could "Behind The Mask" be about Lindsey or not (as someone suggested on the Legboard)?

I do not mind Christine's absence because her keyboards were never prominently on any Lindsey song after Rumours and I believe Stevie's tracks on SYW wouldn't necessarily benefit from her playing.

But Chris definitely doesn't need Lindsey and Stevie to make her music work either. I think all of her songs on Time range from good to great. She's very capable of surviving on her own and I'm glad Ken Caillat has been helping her with the upcoming one.

Just put it out already! :nod:

[Cristian]

Originally posted by face of glass
But Chris definitely doesn't need Lindsey and Stevie to make her music work either. I think all of her songs on Time range from good to great. She's very capable of surviving on her own and I'm glad Ken Caillat has been helping her with the upcoming one.
Yep, I agree. I miss Christine, her sound is missed, but it's the story of Fleetwood Mac - think about it, in 1969 or 1970 they lost they FOUNDER Peter Green; two years later they lost one of the most creative members (Danny Kirwan) then in 1974 they lost they main songwriter Bob Welch... then they had lost Buckingham and Nicks... and it always went on.

I don't see why it shouldn't go on this time. Christine's happy living her life, I hope her album comes out soon, and whilst I do believe Say You Will is not amongst Fleetwood Mac's best offerings (far from that!), I do think it is a Fleetwood Mac album -- it has Mick Fleetwood on drums and John McVie on bass. Period.


Song of the moment - My Heart Beat Like A Hammer

[Nicks Fan]

I have to say that as much I missed Chris on this album / tour. I have moved on. I don't obsess over it. Yes it is sad but I feel what is more sad is that the band refuses to stray away from the tried and true and play more of the old songs that they have either never played or have not played in a while.. This being my first tour I didn't mind what I heard as I was hearing it live for the fisrt time (at a concert ). I enjoyed myself but if they plan to tour this spring they will HAVE to play new stuff or else why bother touring. Virtually anyone who has gone to the first set of us shows won't bother going again if they are going to copy everything (even the speeches) from the first leg. Change it up already.


Matt

[SteveMacD]

Originally posted by 4Buck
>>>We have Buckingham in his own words on why he left the band......and we hear from various FM members on why Christine left the band......

But did anyone ever hear CHRISTINE'S words on why she>>> herself>>> left????

Not in so many words, however, it's easy to piece together why she left the band. She didn't want the stress of being in a band. Listen to the lyrics of "All Over Again" on "Time." It's obvious that she was going to quit the band. In fact, Dave Mason said right after "Time" was released that he thought it would be Christine's last album with the band. And basically, he was right. Sure she did "The Dance," but "Time" was her last studio album.

[SteveMacD]

Originally posted by David
Another point I want to address is the view (common even among the bandmembers themselves) that the sound is more guitar-based because Christine is out of the picture. That's ridiculous. Christine was never Keith Emerson or Billy Joel. Her keyboards on FM albums didn't occupy a central place like the playing of those guys. In fact, the parts she recorded on most of the songs were generally a subtle addition to the rhythm, not a lavish piano arrangement in the spotlight.

I agree that her parts were more rhythmic in nature, but Christine's keyboards were a major driving force on many great Mac songs. Songs that I think are the best example of this are "Morning Rain," SYLM, YMLF, "I Do," and "Nights In Estoril."

Now, that driving force is gone, and Lindsey has found creative was (as we knew he would) to fill that void. Also, I think John really stands out more with Christine not being there. Granted, it's not rocket science, it is an interesting variation on a classic sound.

[joe]

Originally posted by Nicks Fan
I enjoyed myself but if they plan to tour this spring they will HAVE to play new stuff or else why bother touring. Virtually anyone who has gone to the first set of us shows won't bother going again if they are going to copy everything (even the speeches) from the first leg. Change it up already.
Matt

Exactly. First of all, i spent about $500 on FM tickets. Now, i didn't have to go to three shows, but i did. I am currently working a sucky job and finishing up college (as old as i am) and the funds are not really there this year. So, i am quite hesitant to go this year just based on that. What further cements my decision is the lack of change in the setlist. If there is no change when they come back to America, i'm definately not going, or, i may go and get the cheapest seats possible. I find it redundant to go again if it's going to be the same exact show(s) i saw last year.

[Johnny Stew]

Take it for what it's worth, but Stevie said they'd only be changing the setlist once they returned to America for the Spring 2004 tour.

She had said that that would be the longest period of time where they'd have the best opportunity to rework the setlist and then rehearse it.

It actually surprises me that anyone's surprised they didn't change the set for the Australian shows.

[tommer]

1. it's still hard for me understand how can people consider themselves FM fans and still not realize that songs like Goodbye Baby, Peacekeeper, Smile At You, Murrow or Destiny Rules are some of this band's proudest moments ever.

2. was christine a wonderful recording artist? yes. when was the last time she pulled a truely brilliant song? i think it was 1990. could her presence make SYW bigger? i doubt it. last time she propelled a fleetwood mac album was at the time when the New Kids On The Block were considered to be cool.

3. compare this tour to The Dance tour, it's like they paid a visit to the fountain of youth or something.
christine as a stage performer is cool, but a FAR cry from stevie or lindsey's charismatic personas. in other words, if you lose a christine minute, but in return you get 30 lindsey seconds and 30 stevie seconds at a concert- you got yourself an excellent deal.

4. i think it's possible that christine's new album's gonna be her greatest work yet (depending whether she can still write killer songs or not) but as far as fleetwood mac goes... (no. i must stop here. i do respect christine and i don't wanna undermine her contribution to the band for so many years. i think you get my drift there anyway)

[jbrownsjr]

Originally posted by tommer
1. it's still hard for me understand how can people consider themselves FM fans and still not realize that songs like Goodbye Baby, Peacekeeper, Smile At You, Murrow or Destiny Rules are some of this band's proudest moments ever.

2. was christine a wonderful recording artist? yes. when was the last time she pulled a truely brilliant song? i think it was 1990. could her presence make SYW bigger? i doubt it. last time she propelled a fleetwood mac album was at the time when the New Kids On The Block were considered to be cool.

3. compare this tour to The Dance tour, it's like they paid a visit to the fountain of youth or something.
christine as a stage performer is cool, but a FAR cry from stevie or lindsey's charismatic personas. in other words, if you lose a christine minute, but in return you get 30 lindsey seconds and 30 stevie seconds at a concert- you got yourself an excellent deal.

4. i think it's possible that christine's new album's gonna be her greatest work yet (depending whether she can still write killer songs or not) but as far as fleetwood mac goes... (no. i must stop here. i do respect christine and i don't wanna undermine her contribution to the band for so many years. i think you get my drift there anyway)

I am not saying they are better or worse because of her absence, (seems like you are doing that). I am simply saying I miss some of her contributions which in my opinion were amazing. She's been a great songwriter from day one to the end of her career.

Hell I miss Bob Welch and Danny Kirwan a hellva lot. Doesn't mean I don't like Say You Will. I agree there are some proud moments on that album. I listen to it over and over again! Enjoy it! ;)

And if I didn't like Say You Will, how does this take away my title of "FM Fan"?

[ryan8472]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Take it for what it's worth, but Stevie said they'd only be changing the setlist once they returned to America for the Spring 2004 tour.

She had said that that would be the longest period of time where they'd have the best opportunity to rework the setlist and then rehearse it.

It actually surprises me that anyone's surprised they didn't change the set for the Australian shows.

I totally agree. My dad and I have had this discussion many times. Neither of us can understand why they would play the same setlist, every night, on every leg of the tour. Wouldn't this get boring? They have had two rather long breaks already (In August and in November/December.January) to rehearse something new. And for a band with such an enormous catelogue of music, I can't understand why they don't play something else once in a while. Plus, we KNOW they can play the new songs live as well, after Lindsey's PBS special. It's not like they'd forget how to play the songs - They wrote them!

Unfortunatly, this is Fleetwood Mac we are talking about, not The Grateful Dead :laugh: . When Stevie said they would change the set, she probably meant they might switch one new song for another new song. That's about it. And that stinks. But that's just my view on it.

[ryan8472]

Oh and as a reply to the actual topic...

I miss Christine too!!!

But nonetheless, Fleetwood Mac rocks just as hard without her!

[tommer]

Originally posted by [email protected]

And if I didn't like Say You Will, how does this take away my title of "FM Fan"?
because i think it means that you were probably biased against them to begin with, and in a way it also seriously questions your abilties as an objective critic in general.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally posted by tommer
because i think it means that you were probably biased against them to begin with, and in a way it also seriously questions your abilties as an objective critic in general.

So what your saying is as a fan must like every album otherwise they are biased against FM, and to be a good critic - "you are only objective if you take to something in a positive matter.

That's the most interesting view on objectivity I've ever seen....

[chiliD]

Originally posted by [email protected]
And if I didn't like Say You Will, how does this take away my title of "FM Fan"?

Originally posted by tommer
because i think it means that you were probably biased against them to begin with, and in a way it also seriously questions your abilties as an objective critic in general.


By this logic, all the Behind The Mask & Time haters and fans of the "fireflies" incarnation only cannot rightfully claim to be Fleetwood Mac fans. :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

I think Tommer's trying to say that one shouldn't just say, "Oh, well, Christine (or Stevie, or Lindsey, or Bob, or Peter, etc., etc.) isn't there, so the album is automatically lacking something."

Fleetwood Mac's lineup has been in a perpetual state of flux pretty much from the beginning (when Bob Brunning stood in for John McVie), so it's usually better to focus on who IS in the band at any given time, rather than bemoan the fact that someone else isn't. :)

[tommer]

Originally posted by [email protected]
So what your saying is as a fan must like every album otherwise they are biased against FM, and to be a good critic - "you are only objective if you take to something in a positive matter.
That's the most interesting view on objectivity I've ever seen....
i never claimed to be a big post modernist, i believe that generally there is good and there is bad. period.
i am also very proud to say i'm quite knowledgeable about music, i can definetly differentiate bad from good music. i'm not meaning that whatever i like is "good" (in fact, some of my music cabinet should make every sane person cringe), and the other way around- i don't like everything i can define as "good".
to me there are many parameters when i come to analize music (the singing, the playing, sound production, writing ect...) and of course those parameters must variate from one genre or purpuse to another. (basically, one's own taste is the way those parameters are balanced in terms of personal importance). apparently i'm not the only person in the world who respects my abilities on this subject, i made quite a nice living for quite a few years from this knowledge.
i can critisize SYW from here to eternity, but i won't even start. i don't think by any means that it is a perfect album if that's what you're thinking.
but on the other hand, i think in other parts it contains some of their most innovative and best-performed recordings ever, and no, i don't think it's very questionable.
i strongly believe that this album's merits shine so brightly, that you must shut your eyes REAL strong to avoid the light.

:thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I think Tommer's trying to say that one shouldn't just say, "Oh, well, Christine (or Stevie, or Lindsey, or Bob, or Peter, etc., etc.) isn't there, so the album is automatically lacking something."

Fleetwood Mac's lineup has been in a perpetual state of flux pretty much from the beginning (when Bob Brunning stood in for John McVie), so it's usually better to focus on who IS in the band at any given time, rather than bemoan the fact that someone else isn't. :)

I agree 100%. I am a musician as well. (Voice and Piano) I did not like SYW right away, and now I love it. It's not perfect and no album is. I gave it bad reviews at first and now after listening to it again and again it grew on me.

I guess all I am trying to say is that I am able to miss Christine and still love Fleetwood Mac. She was a major contributor and by saying so I feel in no way that I am insulting the rest of the band.
Or other fans who don't miss her. :D

[EveryHour]

Originally posted by ryan8472
Oh and as a reply to the actual topic...

I miss Christine too!!!

But nonetheless, Fleetwood Mac rocks just as hard without her!

:nod: :nod: :nod: Exactly how I feel.


Nothing like a little simplicity amidst a heated debate.:D