Say You Will faves...Now and Then

[EveryHour]

I know the "Most Shocking Revelation"/Silver Girl thread kind of turned into this anyway, but.....
I'm sure this thread's been done before and I just missed it, but now even more time has gone by so the changes should still be interesting. I just find it fascinating and love the fact that your initial least-favorites on an album can become your favorites and vice-versa. List what your Say You Will favorites were right when the album came out and what they are right this moment. We'll include the bonus disc just to add to it.

Then:
Illume
Miranda
Come
Running Through The Garden
Steal Your Heart Away
Everybody Finds Out

Now:
WTWCT
Thrown Down
Say You Will (MUST be the AOL version...still can't handle the kids)
Smile At You
Running Through The Garden
Destiny Rules
Say Goodbye
Goodbye Baby
Not Make Believe

(Yes...I knew all of the demo or outtake versions of the newly-recorded old songs before Say You Will came out. I never HATED the "new" Smile At You, but I have grown to think it a MASTERPIECE! I also think it's unfair to assume that Say You Will was written purely for commerciality. Sometimes a song is sincere, but happens to also be commercial...the likely case with Stevie. The melody is wonderful and so are the lyrics. Sure...I could do with one less repetition of the chorus at the end, but it's not the end of the world. I see why it became the title track: "That always seems to heal the wounds / If I can get you to dance" IS Fleetwood Mac right now.)
:wavey:

[markolas]

I think I actually loved Lindsey's songs the most when the CD first came out, and those are still some of my favorites:

"Murrow Turning Over in His Grave"
"Miranda"
"Come"
"Bleed to Love Her"
"Say Goodbye"

I don't like "Smile at You" as much as I did when the album first came out. I think the verses should be spaced out more. As for the rest of Stevie's songs, my favorites have more or less stayed the same:

"Illume"
"Thrown Down"
"Say You Will"
"Running Through the Garden"

I've always been kind of indifferent to "Silver Girl" and I didn't like "Red Rover" or "Everybody Finds Out" at first, but they've grown on me, as has "Peacekeeper."

I think "Say Goodbye" is the best song on the CD now, whereas at first I probably would've picked "Smile at You."

[skcin]

The only big difference I have is that RTTG is no longer one of my faves - I don't hate it, but it isn't "doing it" for me lately. Thrown Down is the one I want to hear over & over & I don't hate Silver Girl as much anymore. I like Red Rover a lot more now than then. I can take or leave Peacekeeper & I agree that the single version of SYW is the better one.

Paula

[gldstwmn]

Still Love: Love Minus Zero (No Limit) and Destiny Rules

Still Don't Like: Silver Girl and Smile At You.

[dissention]

I still hate Bleed To Love Her, Thrown Down, and Not Make Believe (ugh). I used to hate Silver Girl and Red Rover, but I love them now. I've gotten tired of Illume, Steal Your Hear Away, and Destiny Rules. I still *love* all of the other songs. :D

[Merf]

Former Faves:

Thrown Down
Everybody Finds Out
Destiny Rules
Illume
Smile At You
Miranda
Running Through the Garden
Peacekeeper
Say You Will

Current Faves:

**Thrown Down**
**Everybody Finds Out**
Come
Say You Will
Destiny Rules
Peacekeeper
What's the World Coming To?
Steal Your Heart Away
Say Goodbye

Still not fond of: Goodbye Baby, Silver Girl, Bleed to Love Her, Red Rover. (Although Silver Girl and Red Rover have both grown on me considerably.)

[darklinensuit]

RTTG, Goodbye Baby, and SYHA were and are favorites.
SAY and Illume have grown on me.
Peacekeeper has lost much of its charm for me.

- Jake

[mylittledemon]

My faves on Say You Will:

What's the World Coming To
Murrow Turning Over in His Grave
Thrown Down
Say You Will
Peacekeeper
Come
Running Thru the Garden
Bleed to Love Her
Destiny Rules
Say Goodbye

There ya go...I think that would've been the best way to run the album. Maybe another song of Stevie's in there...."Silver Girl" perhaps.

[golden braid]

Favorites then:

Thrown Down
Say You Will
Steal Your Heart Away
Destiny Rules
What's the World Coming To
Say Goodbye

Songs that have grown on me:

Illume
Everybody Finds Out
Come
Goodbye Baby

Song I still am not into:

Not Make Believe

[wondergirl9847]

ULTIMATE Faves now:

Red Rover (DUH. LOL)
Come
Murrow
EFO
Smile At You
Destiny Rules

Songs that grew on me:

WTWCT
Goodbye Baby

Songs I don't care for now or then (but is not as bad as day one LOL):

Silver Girl

Songs that I like ALOT, but are not my ultimate faves:

Peacekeeper (I love and adore the ACLU version to death)
Say Goodbye (I love and adore the GOS version to death)
SYHA and BTLH (I don't know WHY, but these songs seem like brother and sister to me. :laugh: )
RTTG
TD
Miranda
Illume

Song I'm really kinda sick of, but it's still a catchy song:

Say You Will

Songs I forgot to mention because I NEVER, EVER listen to the Limited Edition CD: :laugh:

Not Make Believe
Love Minus Zero/No Limit

[seteca]

When I first heard the album I thought it was some of their best work ever, and I still believe it is.

My favs. then are still my current favs. and always will be:

Murrow, Red Rover, Come, Smile At You, Say Goodbye.

I love all the other tracks* on the album too, and the album is only 2nd to Tusk in terms of Stevie's songs, IMHO.

*Only song which is "nothing special" is Silver Girl. Although I've removed it from my playlist, I don't think it's particularly bad - it's just that it's so AVERAGE compared to all her other songs on this awesome album.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[chiliD]

Disclaimer: I'd already had Lindsey's Gift Of Screws for a couple of years by the time SYW came out.

Dislikes (since I liked pretty much the whole album on first listen...well, except for):

Then:
Come
Silver Girl

Now:
Silver Girl
Running Through The Garden (not even Lindsey solo at the end can save this one for me anymore)


My "short list", when I don't listen to the whole album all the way through:

Thrown Down (wall of sound version)
Not Make Believe
Smile At You
Miranda
Say You Will (I don't mind "the kids" at all)
Steal Your Heart Away
Destiny Rules

[The Tower]

GREAT THEN and for the most part still to this day:

Everybody Finds Out
Running Through the Garden
Goodbye Baby
Bleed to Love Her
Say You Will
Smile at You

Stuff that grew on me:

Illume (!!!!)
Steal Your Heart Away (!!!)
Miranda
Destiny Rules

Stinkers that I just can't get into:

Not Make Believe (YIKES!)
Come
Red Rover



Bleed to Love Her is just "okay" now. Say You Will needs to add a bridge and delete a chorus. Smile at You doesn't really have a chorus and kinda needs one (although that has always been the case even with the kick-ass "angry" version). Running Through the Garden's production leads me away from it, but Stevie's UNBELIEVABLE vocals :blob2: :woohoo: :thumbsup: always draw me back in. Steal Your Heart Away is f**king gorgeous.

Everybody Finds Out is still perfection to me and Illume has GROWN to perfection for me- I don't know why the hell I didn't like it at first.

GREAT THREAD!

[jadegypsy]

Then (1st Listen)
Thrown Down
SYHA (LOVED)
Destiney Rules (LOVED)

Disliked (1st Listen)
Come
Murrow
RR
EFO
RTTG

Now Faves

TD
SYHA (FAV Lindsey song)
DR (Fav Stevie song)
Illume
EFO
Come (just b/c I have the concert image playing in my head)
SG (best lyrics by lindsey, but better live)

Dislike
Murrow
RR
Silver Girl (Love the lyrics, hate the beat)

[EricBliss12345]

I have a handfull of favorites that I liked best when I first heard it and are still the only ones I like, which are

Peacekeeper
Say You Will

and the best on the album...
Miranda

Sometimes when I put it in I listen to Murrow for the killer guitar solo alone. I really liked Everybody Finds Out when I first heard it but it sounds sort of corny to me now. The rest has yet to make any kind of impression on me.

I hate how Lindsey uses that cliche midrange isolation technique on some of the vocals and music, like how on Everybody Finds Out it sounds like it's coming from a cheap radio and then it sounds normal. I HATE that. :mad:

[FuzzyPlum]

Apologies for digging out this old thread.
I've been listening to Say You Will a lot in the car over the past week. I never really rated this album much and it's probably my least played FM album (vying with Time). However, I think I've got a new appreciation for a lot of the tracks. I always thought Lindsey's were pretty good but I always thought Stevie's were weak. However, I'm now thinking some of her songs on that album would be real barnstormers live. Never thought much of Running Through The Garden. However, with the fuss over the removal of Stand Back I could really see this as a great replacement. I can envisage it as a big production number- its brilliant. Also, I think Everybody Finds Out is also a great one that I probably took for granted. Again, I can see it going really well live. I don't think either of those were played on the Say You Will tour. Has Stevie ever played them as part of her solo performances. If so, can anyone tell me how they went down?

[BlueLight]

Apologies for digging out this old thread.
I've been listening to Say You Will a lot in the car over the past week. I never really rated this album much and it's probably my least played FM album (vying with Time). However, I think I've got a new appreciation for a lot of the tracks. I always thought Lindsey's were pretty good but I always thought Stevie's were weak. However, I'm now thinking some of her songs on that album would be real barnstormers live. Never thought much of Running Through The Garden. However, with the fuss over the removal of Stand Back I could really see this as a great replacement. I can envisage it as a big production number- its brilliant. Also, I think Everybody Finds Out is also a great one that I probably took for granted. Again, I can see it going really well live. I don't think either of those were played on the Say You Will tour. Has Stevie ever played them as part of her solo performances. If so, can anyone tell me how they went down?

Stevie did RTTG during the first few shows of the STW tour, and it sounded amazing - no clue why she dropped it. :shrug:

[jmn3]

Stevie did RTTG during the first few shows of the STW tour, and it sounded amazing - no clue why she dropped it. :shrug:

Just the first show in Columbus. It was dropped at the second show, never to be heard from again! Destiny Rules lasted a bit longer but it too was eventually removed rather early in that tour.

[Macfan4life]

Everybody finds out was my favorite then and now. The lyrics are incredible but the music is a symphony with so much going on. The music builds and builds and then explodes when everybody finds out. It should have been the first single from the album.

[sorcerer999]

My favorites NOW (because I really can't remember my favorites THEN) are

Running Thru The Garden
Steal Your Heart Away
Say Goodbye
Illume

...and I go back and forth (don't ask me why) on enjoying "Smile At You" and "Goodbye Baby". I think I just have to be in the right "mood" for those two.

[jmn3]

Everybody finds out was my favorite then and now. The lyrics are incredible but the music is a symphony with so much going on. The music builds and builds and then explodes when everybody finds out. It should have been the first single from the album.

Couldn't agree more - it's a great song and would've been a great first single and live cut.

[sorcerer999]

Everybody finds out was my favorite then and now. The lyrics are incredible but the music is a symphony with so much going on. The music builds and builds and then explodes when everybody finds out. It should have been the first single from the album.

EFO is a GREAT song, musically! I love that "symphony synth build" at the end that takes it out...

...unfortunately, this song is always marred (in my humble opinion) by a really crappy vocal performance from Stevie. :sorry:

[FuzzyPlum]

Just the first show in Columbus. It was dropped at the second show, never to be heard from again!

That's a shame. I can't envisage a situation where it would be played again- its opportunity came and went I guess. I could see it being a big, ballsy, brash, bombastic number- its maybe what she could do with at the moment.
Thrown Down is another that missed its chance, though I'm not sure it would have been quite heavyweight enough to go down well in a FM show.

[nicole21290]

Just the first show in Columbus. It was dropped at the second show, never to be heard from again! Destiny Rules lasted a bit longer but it too was eventually removed rather early in that tour.

For those curious:

Running Through The Garden

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QRC_ajBfqK8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Destiny Rules

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/x8IFO22Ixq4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And here (http://youtu.be/7ij7ozb3ICg).

[secret love]

Maybe Stevie dropped two of her new songs to piss Lindsey off...We know how she goes on about Say You Will being such an unhappy tour and we know how much she has laid waste to that album after she finished helping to promote it.

I've heard that the song Say You Will was written for Christine's benefit. Any truth to that?

Now, unfortunately I didn't really know much about Say You Will when it was first released. I was ten years old and busy listening to Pink's Try This and digging her cursing in God is a DJ among other songs.

I think I first heard Say You Will in 2012, though I'm not sure.

I remember really liking Thrown Down, Steal Your Heart Away, finding Illume a bore, liking Come but finding it over-long. I also liked Peacekeeper, What's the World Coming To, Destiny Rules and Running Through the Garden and thought that Miranda was weird but still okay. Regarding Destiny Rules, a family member liked it better when I was singing it than when I played Stevie's rendition...she said that I could sell the lyrics before I explained it was already a recorded and released song. I do write my own song lyrics though.

Now I love Everybody Finds Out, when before I found it repetitive. I appreciate Lindsey's songs more, Say Goodbye for example after some great live performances and also Red Rover. I think that Silver Girl is a catchy tune riddled with clichés but I guess so many hit songs are full of lyrical clichés these days, so that's not very unusual. Not Make Believe is also one of favourite recent Fleetwood Mac songs.

[nicole21290]

I've heard that the song Say You Will was written for Christine's benefit. Any truth to that?


Not particularly, no. It's pretty much one of her 'I saw a movie and it reminded me of Lindsey' songs, lol. :D

“Everybody’s experienced it - when you like somebody, it makes you a different person. It changes you and it changes you in a minute. But that song is not just about Lindsey.

It’s about a movie I saw about Arturo Sandoval, the trumpet player. I loved this movie, and I just loved the way that through all the pain and separation, they managed to do music and stay happy and keep love alive, and dancing and rhythm and music, how healing it was. That was really my inspiration for that song.

The chorus was written first, then I went back to write the verses. It was initially inspired by that movie. But then once you get part of the poem down, you can’t always write all of it about what inspired it initially. You have to go back. You have this great chorus that basically says, “If you dance with me, you won’t be mad at me anymore. We can be in a huge argument, but if we put on some music and start to dance, everything will be great.” Then I had to think about what to make the verses about.

So I went back over all my relationships with people and thought of different ways that I have felt when I wanted basically to burst into song and sing that chorus (laughs). Give me one more chance. That’s what came out of it. It’s funny because, we just did an interview the day before yesterday, and I don’t think any of the band knows that that was the reason I wrote the song.”

MY favourite thing about the lyrics, however, is how ridiculously similar they are to some of Lindsey's...

DOWN ON RODEO

We never took quite enough chances
We never had quite enough time
I did about a thousand dances
But nothing would change your mind

SAY YOU WILL

Say you will, say you will give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds, if I can
Get you to dance

[FuzzyPlum]

For those curious:

Running Through The Garden

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QRC_ajBfqK8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Destiny Rules

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/x8IFO22Ixq4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And here (http://youtu.be/7ij7ozb3ICg).

Thank you.
RTTG doesn't quite have the intensity I think it could have. However, it's still good and there didn't really seem to be a reason to have cut it. There's real lack of interaction between them though. Indeed they remain pretty much static throughout which is a shame- there was a lot of scope for stomping around general dramatics.

[moon]

I think my vision is the same. I like Murrow and Come, but I think the live versions are really better. Better and better. Maybe the same for Bleed to love Her, and Say Goodbye. It's ok, but the Soundstage one was and is simply the best.

For the rest...my favs were always WTWCT, Illume, SYHA, and Destiny Rules. The rest are ok, but are not favs of mine. I mean, they won't be in a list of my favourite FM songs from all time. ;)
Regards!
Mark.

[TheWILDheart]

I always think of SYW as 2 solo albums shoved together. Whenever I play it, I play Stevie and Lindsey's songs seperately. I've added a few tracks in to the Stevie playlist too that seem to fit quite well (TISL version of "My Heart", "If You Ever Did Believe" and her solo version of "Crystal").

Favourite Stevie tracks: "Everbody Finds Out" and "Destiny Rules"
Favourite Lindsey tracks: "Miranda" and "Bleed To Love Her"

Least favourite Stevie track: "Say You Will" (although I still love it :thumbsup:)
Least favourite Lindsey track: "Murrow Turning Over In His Grave" or possibly "Red Rover".

[elle]

the only song that i've heard from SYW when it first came out was Peacekeeper, because it was pretty constantly on the radio station i listened to. i liked it.

now my opinion is that album that has such amazing songs as Murrow, Bleed To Love Her, and Red Rover, among some others, has to be epic... however non-cohesive it may be, and however many songs that i just can't stand it may contain.

of course, i still think that had the original GOS came out as intended, it would have been miles and eons better album than SYW. although quite possibly less people would have heard it; hard to tell.

[PenguinHead]

Maybe Stevie dropped two of her new songs to piss Lindsey off...

How would that piss him off; what is the incentive? She's just doing a disservice to herself, and fans who want to hear a fresh set. If anything, Lindsey wouldn't care at all that there are two less Stevie songs he doesn't have to perform.

Exactly how many times was Destiny Rules performed? Correct me if I'm wrong, but was this only single performance of Running Through the Garden?
It's a shame, because both songs were fantastic on stage, and they got a rousing response from the audience.

Four new Stevie songs in a set is a respectable balance between old and new. I wonder why she reduced it to just two songs - Say You Will and Goodbye Baby? Decisions like that are very perplexing to fans, especially since they such solid performances.

[nicole21290]

Exactly how many times was Destiny Rules performed? Correct me if I'm wrong, but was this only single performance of Running Through the Garden?
It's a shame, because both songs were fantastic on stage, and they got a rousing response from the audience.


Running Through The Garden was only played the once in 2003 - Columbus (May 7). Destiny Rules was played in Columbus (May 7) and Pittsburgh (May 10) in 2003. It then came back in 2004 for the second US leg but only in Madison (May 8), Champaign (May 9), and Green Bay (May 12).

From the band tour report on the 13th May 2003 in Cleveland:
There was a slight set list change for this show, continuing the song/order alchemy in pursuit of the perfect set. The band placed Eyes of the World third, followed by Peacekeeper and then Second Hand News. Destiny Rules was dropped from this show. By most accounts this tweaking provided great pacing and was well appreciated.

And then on May 10th 2004 (Madison), Cory wrote:
Then out from the depths of the Buckingham Nicks era (and a brief, albeit glorious appearance on the FM Live album) came Don’t Let Me Down Again. That calls for pee your pants excitement in my opinion! It sounds great, and they played it at the first show in Madison. If you were at the Madison show, consider yourself lucky, because I think it will be leaving the set. Sadly, it seems it can’t find a place to fit in. It will be sorely missed, but at least I got to see it come to life, it was like a little piece of history...farewell Don’t Let Me Down Again, it was nice knowing you...sigh. But we’ve got Sara (big huge yay!), Destiny Rules (double yay!) and Red Rover (pass out from excitement yay!).

Then in her recap on the 16th of Greenbay/Nashville/Atlanta:
Okay, set list discussion. Don’t Let Me Down Again has in fact taken a permanent vacation, (insert expletive here), Goodbye Baby has been rehired, although I love the song, I kind of liked ending the show on a high note. Goodbye Baby is so sad! But I suppose it’s the logical follow-up to Songbird...I guess tradition is tradition. Destiny Rules got the boot, which I’m livid about. There are a few of us who have told Stevie we will not speak to her until they put it back in the set. (I think she knows that we work for her and that we have to speak to her, so she kind of called our bluff.)

[Keith]

Running Through The Garden was only played the once in 2003 - Columbus (May 3). Destiny Rules was played in Columbus (May 7) and Pittsburgh (May 10) in 2003. It then came back in 2004 for the second US leg but only in Madison (May 8), Champaign (May 9), and Green Bay (May 12).
[/INDENT]

They played "Destiny Rules" also at the DC show I was at. I remember loving it, but being disappointed that "Running Through the Garden" was dropped. A head scratcher to the drops.

[jcalzaretta]

It bums me out the two songs were dropped. Both came off excellent live. I would have loved to have seen them.

[Dragonfly]

Everybody finds out was my favorite then and now. The lyrics are incredible but the music is a symphony with so much going on. The music builds and builds and then explodes when everybody finds out. It should have been the first single from the album.

In 100% agreement with you!

This song is the one track on the album that could have been a smash as it sounded very current. I listen to this on my ipod most days and never tire of it, just wish they'd have done it live.

Also one of the most 'naughty' lyrics Stevie has ever written don't you think?;)

[bethelblues]

There was really no excuse for Stevie not to perform Thrown Down and Everybody Finds Out for that tour...probably her best two songs on the album. Those two plus Say You Will and either Destiny Rules or Running Through the Garden. There, 4 new songs.

[kak125]

I agree! When the album came out I was thinking that Thrown Down and Everybody Finds Out would be so amazing live and I was disappointed they never made it into the set list. I think Stevie just didn't want to go all out on Everybody Finds Out and I think performing Thrown Down would have just been too hard for her.
I will say the Say You Will tour tops all of them for me I think because of all the new songs. It was refreshing to hear new music from them and to see the amount of energy they had on stage and I loved the Stevie/Lindsey interaction. I feel that is one thing missing from their performances now its like they are purposely distancing themselves from each other.

[bethelblues]

This is what the 24-song set should have looked like. Why write new songs and make an album if you're not going to play it...that's the only way an audience will hear and learn new songs:

1. I Don't Want to Know
(In hindsight, they should've dropped The Chain...the Chain was broken, wasn't it? But they thought Christine was gone for good, so they couldn't permanently retire it)
2. Dreams
3. Second Hand News OR Blue Letter

4. Thrown Down
5. Peacekeeper
6. Say You Will
7. The Ledge (Need a Lindsey Tusk song that's not the title track...I guess if Stevie needs Rhiannon, replace this one or Come, but believe it or not, she did NOT have Rhiannon in the opening night set)
8. Come

9. Gypsy Acoustic OR Sara (she wore red!!!!)
10. Crystal DUET
11. Big Love
12. Red Rover
13. Landslide

14. Running Through the Garden (This sounded great!!)
15. Bleed to Love Her
16. Beautiful Child
17. What's the World Coming To
18. I'm So Afraid
19. Everybody Finds Out (there's the Stevie fast song, not Stand Back)
20. Tusk
21. Go Your Own Way

Encore
22. Don't Stop
23. Say Goodbye

24. Goodbye Baby (OR do this for encores: Gold Dust Woman, Don't Stop, and end with Say Goodbye)

[He's So Unusual]

I loved Illume, Steal Your Heart Away, Miranda, Thrown Down and Destiny Rules from the moment I heard them and still love them to this day. I've warmed to Silver Girl and Running Through the Garden over the years, but I definitely prefer the '80s demos. I still don't like Murrow Turning Over in His Grave. Say You Will (the song) is still very twee.

[bethelblues]

Can I just say I'm really digging John's bass work in Everybody Finds Out. It gives the song its great groove. Thanks you guys for turning me onto that song.