Realistically - Where does Lindsey belong?

[jeffs]

We all think Lindsey is one of the best and unusual guitarists of his time and now. Most of us also know he is usually excluded from lists that rank the greatest rock guitarists, most recently Rolling Stones greatest 100. So - realistically, putting aside our bias love for LB, where does he belong on a truely accurate list? I am not a guitar player or expert, so I can only imagine that he does truely belong in the top 20 or 30 rock/pop guitarists of all time.

JS

[chiliD]

I think he belongs somewhere in the lower middle...somewhere between 50-75.

[shackin'up]

50-75?

Then Chilli is nothing more than a dogtopping....:laugh:

No. Lindsey belongs in the top twenty. And I really put aside my love for him now, because for me he tops a lot of the same old crew who's usually in those rankings. For me only hendrix beats him on the most levels...., just saw that rosebud-documentary-clip of ISA as posted on buckinghamnicks.net ....goosebumps. Never saw that before....:wavey:

[madformac]

I'd say Chili is close to the mark..

I'd rank Lindsey in the top 50 of all time, just.

Polls are very good indicators of feelings at the moment. For instance, Jack White of the White Stripes at 17 but not a sign of Slash in the top 100!!! Quite amazing. Recalculate the poll in a years time and Buckingham would be in the top 30.

These polls are about the moment and about the tunes rather than the abilities of the said player.

Lindsey is a very, very gifted guitarist and one of my personal top 5 but there are better players out there for sure. When I think of Lindsey I think of him as a creative genius, producer, songwriter, THEN guitarist and finally singer.. The sum being greater than the parts (as LB himself might say) :laugh:

My top 3 just for the record are

1) Eric Patrick Clapton (always overlooked despite his amazing volume of work because he didn't die young)

2) Mark Knopfler ( only guitarist to ever do things I couldn't understand with his fingers)

3) Saul Hudson aka Slash (most fluid player I've ever seen in my life)



:wavey: :wavey:

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by madformac
Polls are very good indicators of feelings at the moment. For instance, Jack White of the White Stripes at 17 but not a sign of Slash in the top 100!!! Quite amazing. Recalculate the poll in a years time and Buckingham would be in the top 30.

Yeah, you're right, Rolling Stone usually bases their polls on who is "hot" right now and Slash ain't hot. Jack White is. But about Lindsey Buckingham-- he has been a consistently amazing guitar player, work-horse, and all around gifted musician for 30 years, ever since Buckingham/Nicks which was his first effort, and showcased, I might add, incredible guitar work for such a musical "novice." Yeah, L.B. has been ignored more times than not over the years for his talent, and I think it's time that he's recognized, if not by Rolling Stone, then by us, The Ledgies! Therefore, I aim to put him in the top twenty and I don't think this is over-shooting or giving him too much credit, it's credit well deserved I think.

:wavey:

[BlueGrass]

To me, I think Lindsey is the best guitarist. It is very hard and unfair to compare him to others because he is so unique from the others. After seeing him flail, frial and finger pick his way through all those songs right infront of me I am now convinced he is the best.

[CarneVaca]

Lindsey Buckingham is my favorite guitarist and musician.

Having said that, I will try to be objective in saying I believe he belongs in the top 10. While Clapton and others are generally considered "better" guitarists, I believe Lindsey beats them all in sheer inventiveness, except for say Django, who invented a whole new set of chords and played like no one else. Lindsey pushes the envelope with every new set of recordings while he could still be rerecording Go Your Own Way and The Chain and getting away with it.

Are there better guitarists? Yes, probably. Are there more exciting, interesting guitarists? I humbly submit not.

I would add to that that I have seen unsigned guitarists who play better than the household names. One in particular comes to mind.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by shackin'up
50-75?

I was being realistic. Ok, I'll give him up to maybe 40 and no less than 60...but that's all I'll go.
Originally posted by shackin'up
Then Chilli is nothing more than a dogtopping....:laugh:

I'm offended, joking or not.
Originally posted by shackin'up

No. Lindsey belongs in the top twenty. And I really put aside my love for him now, because for me he tops a lot of the same old crew who's usually in those rankings. For me only hendrix beats him on the most levels...

The only "top 20" list Lindsey belongs in is "the Best Guitarist in Fleetwood Mac"...beyond that, he's far back in the pack...but, I DO agree that he belonged somewhere in the middle of the pack of the Top 100.


Originally posted by shackin'up
...just saw that rosebud-documentary-clip of ISA as posted on buckinghamnicks.net ....goosebumps. Never saw that before....:wavey:
You think the clip is good you shoulda been there in person about 15 yds from the stage!! And, to top that, he had to follow Michael Schenker & UFO (who was the middle act of the 3 band bill...the opening act was "Small Wonder" from central Canada)

[rcb77]

He's my all-time favorite personally, but as far as objectively speaking, I still think he's at least a top-20 guitarist. He's a much cleaner player than, say, Jimmy Page (Page played incredible riffs, but his solos tended to be quite sloppy, especially live), and his style of playing is so unique. I may be wrong on this (Chili could probably tell me), but I think he's one of the only lead guitarists of his generation who's style wasn't derived from the blues. While I'm sure he had an appreciation of them, and was influenced indirectly by them through players like Clapton and Green, his playing came more from his love of folk and California pop (Beach Boys, Byrds).

[mylittledemon]

Well I've been playing guitar for 8 years...so I'm a little biased. PERSONALLY...Lindsey is my all time favorite guitar player. I was playing the guitar the way he plays before I even knew who he was. So, there's a fondness for him there. BUT...do I think he's "the best"? Probably not. It's all opinion anyways. I would, in a Rolling Stone poll, stick him around 1 thru 25 for sure.

PEACE!

[shackin'up]

Originally posted by chiliD
I was being realistic. Ok, I'll give him up to maybe 40 and no less than 60...but that's all I'll go.


I'm offended, joking or not.


The only "top 20" list Lindsey belongs in is "the Best Guitarist in Fleetwood Mac"...beyond that, he's far back in the pack...but, I DO agree that he belonged somewhere in the middle of the pack of the Top 100.



You think the clip is good you shoulda been there in person about 15 yds from the stage!! And, to top that, he had to follow Michael Schenker & UFO (who was the middle act of the 3 band bill...the opening act was "Small Wonder" from central Canada)

OOhhh, you were there? jealousy......


Please, Chili, don't be offended, I respect you as one of the most informative and original posters on the ledge. And you wrote the best review of the SYW-tour I've read 'till now. Maybe my humour doesn't fit everytime, sorry for that.

But: Although there are a lot of guitarists that are more technically skilled in the traditional way, I really think Lindsey's one of the most original players in music history. Yes, Schenker's hard to top, but he is what I call a " musician's musician". Lindsey's not, he'll always go for the song. So i understand why he's not in those lists, but when you are the main arranger of four majestic albums in the 70's and reinvent yourself as a guitarplayer decades after that you deserve a place above the claptons, schenkers, vai's, knoppflers etcetera. They basically do the same thing brilliantly over and over again. For me it is also about development and renewal. From that point of view, name one guitarplayer who did what Lindsey did in the last 50 years of rock'n'roll.

[Janet]

Off subject but not off topic ( now does that make sense?) at the Philly concert someone was screaming out " Now why didn't you make Rolling Stone" I thought it was funny and everyone around him was agreeing and knew what he meant.

I agree with Chili because I guess technically Lindsey isn't the best * top 20* but still very good compared to others-- on my list he'd be #1 ( no bias at all! ;) )

:)

[John Run]

Music is about feel and one's own appreciation for the sound that someone else creates. What is great to one's ears may be just boring to another. I find so many great guitarists who I enjoy and discover and redisover their playing over and over again. To make a definitive list is impossible in my opinion. For me Lindsey's playing took a giant leap from 1982 to when he reemerged in 1992. Lindsey is innovative. Lindsey is a great recycler though. He loves to find something he likes and then reuse it over and over again. That is not a bad thing. To me it is very interesting how he can continually take parts of old pieces and place them in new songs. He may come up with a new way to play that piece or play it through an array of technology and effects, to take it to a whole new place and sound. That is where I find Lindsey to be so innovative. It is his ability to recycle and reinvent his past playing into something new.

Great guitarists in no particular order and Lindsey is on this list.

Chet Atkins
Mark Knopfler
Ricky Skaggs (mandolin)
Scotty Moore
Nils Lofgren
Dan Tymisnki
Stone Gossard (Pearl Jam)
Peter Buck
The Edge
Don Felder
Wes Montgomery
Jimi Hendrix
Slash
Steve Winwood
Eric Clapton
Earl Skruggs (Banjo)
Vince Gill
Jose Neto
Narciso Yepes
Eric Johnson
Lindsey Buckingham

[face of glass]

If we’re speaking of soloing technique, then Lindsey can’t be near the top. His solos don’t really ram up and down the fretboard and they are neither complex nor particularly fast. For someone who has fingerpicking skills, they’re oddly slow. Can you even get close to the hair-metal runs of the album version of “Come” with a Turner? ChiliD, any experience on this?
For me, too, it’s the emotion that counts. In purely subjective terms Lindsey is in my top5 solo guitarists. His solos are “obsessive” because of the repetition he likes to use in climactic spots and that’s why they speak to me.

In the end Lindsey isn’t the equivalent of Hendrix, Clapton, Santana, etc. He didn’t really invent a new way of playing and he’s rarely had any influence on a well-known player. He didn’t revolutionize rock’n’roll.

And then there’s spontaneity. A skill to improvise and change the old. I’m afraid he’s not that great in this area these days. Before the Out Of The Cradle tour, yes, but not that much now, because nearly everything in a current Fleetwood Mac show is prearranged. I know that ChiliD has a deep appreciation for the blues, and since Lindsey said that the “blues bores me”, ChiliD doesn’t have Lindsey among his favourite players any more. Or at least that’s what you can read from the “I Got The Blues” thread. I have to say I miss the young spontaneous Buckingham, who wasn’t afraid of jamming at one time in his life. And if we look at LB as a spontaneous player, he doesn’t cut it these days. The solos are pretty much the same. Eric Clapton plays different solos each night, every tour. Although I do have to apologize Shackin’up and Sodascouts (the Florida “Come” helped me here, thanks) for my first post on these boards: he does play different stuff on “Come” and “I’m So Afraid”, he just doesn’t do it every night. But even these are in a safe environment.

Here’s a thought: Lindsey didn’t necessarily say that blues is boring. I think “Murrow” is a blues, although not in the traditional sense of the 12-bar blues, more in the form of the good old field-blues, when the whole thing was more free-form. But, back to the opening sentence of the chapter: I believe that Lindsey himself isn’t interested in improvisation that much nowadays. He knows that when a band is playing without any structure, very little interesting things usually happen. And I’m sure that LB isn’t interested in the improvisation in solos either, because a million players have been doing it since the world began. That’s why he took that step from the Mirage tour to the Out Of The Cradle tour. He arranges things very carefully these days, because he doesn’t care for spontaneity much. He still works from the point of view of a studio player and an arranger. That’s where he excels and that’s where he’s still trying something new every time, even though he does like to recycle some things. You might claim that it’s not natural, that it’s not spontaneous, that it’s not very rock’n’roll. You might say that a player needs to feed from the audience and that rock’n’roll is a social thing, not dabbling in the studio alone. And I would agree with that. But I’m sure he doesn’t have that much to give as a lead player/improviser and he knows it himself too. It’s the studio recordings he cares about in the end. No matter how long those might take him these days, the end result always intrigues me. If we were to think of guitar players as arrangers, then I would insist that he be in the top10. Objectively or subjectively. ;)

[shackin'up]

....okay, face,

...but I'm not interested in solo-pace. One Eddie van Halen (love him, he's born half a mile from my home in nijmegen) is enough. And clapton plays different solo's everynight but does not approve his songwriting one little bit. he was a big one, influencial too, but a boring one when it comes to personal development. The fact that Lindsey plays basically the same soli (dutch) in this FM - show doesn't bother me, because he is serving songs. But I just don't get it when people don't acknowledge the fact that his guitarplaying is EVERYWHERE in his solo and FM-work, and that the way he does that is innovating and different from 99.9 percent of all guitarplayers.

He was my number two after Hendrix, but as I'm typing this, I'm reconsidering. Sorry Jimi. You're number two now.








.........and of course, this was only my humble,humble,humble O.

[face of glass]

I agree with everything there Gerald, with all my subjective emotions. ;) Lindsey's studio work is what matters to me the most and that's where I consider him one of the best. He might not be the best in any particular field; singing/guitarplaying/arranging/songwriting/producing, but when those all are together in his work, he simply can't be beat.

[Gazza]

Hey, if he's one of Monte Montgomerys favourite players (and obviously a big influence) then that's good enough to convince me he deserves a place in the top 25 at least, because having recently seen that guy, my jaw almost fell off.

[seteca]

Originally posted by face of glass
He arranges things very carefully these days, because he doesn’t care for spontaneity much....................It’s the studio recordings he cares about in the end.

I'm not sure where this idea of Lindsey's solos being "fixed" came from but I certainly don't agree. Yes, the basic chord structure of the solo is fixed, but then it obviously HAS to be otherwise it will sound off-key and horrible. I've listened to probably around 100 versions of "I'm So Afraid" and about 15 versions of "Come" and I have NEVER heard the same solo twice. I agree that there are parts of the solos that you can expect to hear every time you hear the song (e.g. that part at 6:04 on the Dance version of ISA) but that's because it's become a signature part of that solo, just like the arpeggios at the end of "Hotel California", or the start of the solo of "Comfortably Numb". It's not because he isn't or can't be "spontaneous". In fact, as any half decent rock or blues guitarist knows, it's actually A LOT harder to pre-arrange a solo than it is to simply play what you feel. And unless you're feeling particularly stoned, the latter will always produce a much warmer, organic, and more pleasing sound to the ear. As the verse and chorus of Come and ISA are the same length every night, it's obvious that the length of the song is determined by the end solo, and if you look at all the bootlegs available, they're all different lengths. It's almost physically impossible to try to pre-arrange a 4 minute+ raging rock solo night after night for 70 or 80 nights. If you have to do that, you shoudn't be on stage in the first place because you aren't a professional guitarist. During the rehearsal period before the tour started, Lindsey probably came up with several rough ideas on various ways the solo could develop throughout the 4 or 5 minute period. (Find me a SINGLE guitarist who goes on an international multi-million dollar tour and DOESN'T give at least SOME thought/rehearsal to how he's going to play his solos before the tour starts.) The rest is improvisation and spontaneity. On some nights he gets so into the solo he simply finishes the song with a massive power chord rather than coming back to the mic to sing the final "Think of me sweet darling....".

Now the WAY in which he or any other guitarist improvises those parts is determined by two factors: emotion, and technical ability. Lindsey is extremely technically abled, so if any parts of a song (solo) sound the same, it's most likely because that's the emotion he is trying to convey via his guitar. Just like that 6:04 part of ISA...you can hear that guitar is coming from the depths of his soul as he's playing. And it sounds just as emotional every time you hear it at whatever venue, because even though he knows he's leading up to that part, when he gets there, it always brings out that same screaming emotion, which is why it's never boring to hear and in fact the total opposite. The parts which are new every night sound the way they do because that's how he feels at that instant, and he has the technical ability and experience to play exactly how he feels. There has never been a 96 note/bar tapping sequence in ISA because that wouldn't really serve either the song or his emotion in any useful way. However, the man has been a pro. guitarist for almost 40 years, and I'm SURE there is VERY little he couldn't do if he "had to".

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: it's impossible, and wrong, to create a "greatest guitarists" list. So MANY factors should be taken into account if someone is even contemplating making such a list, such as: who is voting? Are they professional, unbiased guitarists or members of the public? Is the list regarding pure technical ability or the emotion with which the guitar is played and/or the emotion it creates within the listener? Does the list allow flamenco or classical guitarists (who are undoubtedly some of the most technically gifted guitarists in the world and who seem to be missing from all of these lists)? etc etc

Originally posted by face of glass
Can you even get close to the hair-metal runs of the album version of “Come” with a Turner?

Yes, you can. I can play the whole of the album version solo on my Model One no probs.

Originally posted by Gazza
Hey, if he's one of Monte Montgomerys favourite players (and obviously a big influence) then that's good enough to convince me he deserves a place in the top 25 at least, because having recently seen that guy, my jaw almost fell off.

One of the many, many, lesser known awesome pro. guitarists who have been influenced by Lindsey's playing.

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I would add to that that I have seen unsigned guitarists who play better than the household names.

I totally agree. There are 20-60 year old guitarists who play at the "Ain't Nothin' But The Blues" bar for up to 20 or 30 minutes, jamming away, with a feel for the blues far greater (imo) than Clapton or Green. They are a pure pleasure to watch and hear, and the amount of talent that's on that little stage is at times simply unbelievable and awe-inducing. The same guitarists then pack away their guitars into their gig-bags and take the bus back home. They don't have a contract and there aren't any "talent spotters" in the "audience" (i.e. the 50-100 people in the bar). They're there because they love to play.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by chiliD


You think the [Rosebud ISA] clip is good you shoulda been there in person about 15 yds from the stage!! And, to top that, he had to follow Michael Schenker & UFO (who was the middle act of the 3 band bill...the opening act was "Small Wonder" from central Canada)

Oh my gosh, you were there?! How AWESOME! That is one of my favorite Fleetwood Mac clips EVER! VERY COOL! I'm majorly jealous!

[Gazza]

Out of interest, what other lesser known and more famous guitarists has Lindsey been a big influence on? I'm aware of a few but just wondering who I may have missed.

[face of glass]

I haven’t listened to every Lindsey solo in ”Come” and ”I’m So Afraid”, I do admit that. And I know very well that you can’t repeat a long solo exactly like it was the night before, not even when you have the actual notes in front of you. There are variations, but the question is: are there enough of them? Lindsey isn’t a player who uses chromatic notes, so he always plays within the given chords. And so do most rock players, unless they have the skills of a jazzman too. Allan Holdsworth, a known jazz-rock player, said that he gets really worried if his solos start to sound the same. With Lindsey, I do agree that he has certain climactic spots he likes to repeat. I have no problems with that; that’s how it’s been since the White Album tour versions of “I’m So Afraid”. It does add to the emotion for me, too.

Listening to music is always subjective, so this all is based on our impressions. My impression is that “I’m So Afraid” was at its most spontaneous during Mirage tour and the tours before that. You think he hasn’t lost it. Well, I don’t think he has lost it entirely either. I have heard different takes of “Come” and “I’m So Afraid” from this tour. But sometimes it feels to me that he plays it a little too safe. The very structured Out Of The Cradle tour version of “ISA” was based on the chaotic solo that was on the 1980 live album, and with The Dance he did the same again. That’s what he did for that 1986 Don Henley benefit too. I guess it could be explained by the fact that since he hadn’t been on stage for a long time, he wanted to play it safe for a while. He does seem to get more spontaneous in these two monster solos when the tour progresses.

The thing is, Lindsey of the past played different solos on pretty much every song, at least on the Tusk and Mirage tours. He didn’t play them extended, but he did try some new things in those. These days, with the Fleetwood Mac show being what it is, he doesn’t do that. That already takes away from the spontaneity. That he has pre-arranged spots during the show when he can play what he wants within the given chord, only proves that spontaneity isn’t very allowed within FM performances these days. I guess the lack of drugs is also a problem. ;)

Originally posted by seteca
There has never been a 96 note/bar tapping sequence in ISA because that wouldn't really serve either the song or his emotion in any useful way.

I agree with this. A single note can say a lot. Just listen to Neil Young’s “Southern Man”, when he plays it for at least fifty times in a row. I’m sure LB doesn’t want to play fast live, because it wouldn’t really fit the songs. And it’s easier for him too. ;)

Is the list regarding pure technical ability or the emotion with which the guitar is played and/or the emotion it creates within the listener? Does the list allow flamenco or classical guitarists (who are undoubtedly some of the most technically gifted guitarists in the world and who seem to be missing from all of these lists)? etc etc[/B]

Another agreement. Such lists wouldn’t have much information value to anyone. Some musicologists have argued over the years that classical music is superior to rock music, and therefore classical players would be superior to rock players. Simply because when you look at the notes it’s easy to say which is more complex, challenging and uses richer chords. The notes however, cannot convey the emotion, the tone colour and the phrasing. That’s where most of the fascination of jazz and rock is.

They're there because they love to play.[/B]

Which raises the question: does Lindsey really get that much enjoyment from playing on stage nowadays? But see another thread for that.

At least we both love LB. Otherwise we’d probably be stepping on each other’s throats by now. ;) This is starting to resemble a typical male discussion on cars. ;)

[David]

Originally posted by face of glass
The thing is, Lindsey of the past played different solos on pretty much every song, at least on the Tusk and Mirage tours. He didn’t play them extended, but he did try some new things in those. I disagree a smidgin. Part of what was so interesting about the 1979/80 tour was the way that songs unfurled, throughout the year, into tangled, intricate mazes. Owing to whatever -- exhaustion, drugs, confidence -- the four Fleetwood Mac players really let loose in their evolving arrangements night after night (bear in mind that we're talking Mac at the Village Recorder, not Coltrane at the Village Vanguard, but within their own somewhat limited, defined boundaries, this incarnation of Fleetwood was in its vamping heyday). Take any five-month period of touring from 1979/80, & you'll hear quite a bit more ad lib & all-around evolution in the arrangements than you hear in any number currently being performed over the same time frame on this tour. For example, listen to "World Turning" or "I'm So Afraid" at a December 1979 show -- say, Los Angeles -- & compare it with a performance from June 1980 (like Cologne, for example).

This incarnation will never be that brave (or reckless, if you prefer) again onstage. Them days are over. And a big part of that must be because of the number of people actually playing something at a Fleetwood Mac show -- way too many to allow a notable breakdown in structure or form (although, again, it never stopped jazz players or even rock players like the Grateful Dead).

[EveryHour]

Originally posted by John Run


Great guitarists in no particular order and Lindsey is on this list.

Chet Atkins
Mark Knopfler
Ricky Skaggs (mandolin)
Scotty Moore
Nils Lofgren
Dan Tymisnki
Stone Gossard (Pearl Jam)
Peter Buck
The Edge
Don Felder
Wes Montgomery
Jimi Hendrix
Slash
Steve Winwood
Eric Clapton
Earl Skruggs (Banjo)
Vince Gill
Jose Neto
Narciso Yepes
Eric Johnson
Lindsey Buckingham

:wavey: NO WAY! Another Nils Lofgren fan! Loved him for years!!! Total passion, like Lindsey!

Lindsey definitely belongs in the Top 20. His passion is unbelievable and his style completely unique. It's hard to compare and rank those who are better technically (who also play beautifully), and those who are better emotionally. Lindsey makes me FEEL until my head wants to pop off, and that's what matters to me! :nod:

Also, no one seems to be actually slamming him or anything, but Jack White IS amazing. The White Stripes are my boyfriend's fave band and I went to see them recently. I had wondered about his placement on the Rolling Stone list because he's so "new", but they are one of the few newer bands who are the "real thing" and I hope they're around for a long time. They have no bass player, so Jack brilliantly covers everything on the guitar and he plays a mean slide too! Perhaps compared to others on the list who have been around longer, he maybe should have ranked lower, but maybe they felt he was so significant because he's kind of causing "a movement" among all of the crap out there (and I do agree that is important).

I'm rambling about a list I think is crap anyway for not including LB!:laugh: Forgive me.

[face of glass]

I agree David. I did put too much emphasis on LB, when it should have been put on all instrumentalists.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by face of glass
If we’re speaking of soloing technique, then Lindsey can’t be near the top. His solos don’t really ram up and down the fretboard and they are neither complex nor particularly fast.

Like Neil Young...Lindsey OVER uses the "one-note solo" thing just WAY too much ("The Chain", most of "I'm So Afraid", on Walter Egan's "Hot Summer Night", John Stewart's "Gold", etc).

Granted, Clapton & Santana have lusted after that "ONE NOTE" that'll express all emotions, but in Lindsey & Neil's cases, less is NOT more.


Originally posted by face of glass
Can you even get close to the hair-metal runs of the album version of “Come” with a Turner? ChiliD, any experience on this?

If you mean the TONE of his guitar through those solos, yeah...but most of the sound he gets on that are from fx pedals or amp overdrive, not from the guitar itself.

DISCLAIMER: (Just because I have a Turner, doesn't imply that I sit down and try to copy every note of a Lindsey Buckingham guitar solo. In fact, I don't do that with ANY guitarist anymore. After playing for 35 years, I've kind of grown into my own style & sound. I may play other people's tunes close to their versions, but I don't worry about trying to EXACTLY replicate them.)

The Turner can pretty much "do it all" tone-wise, except get those "squwaky" out of phase tones of a Fender Strat (like early Mark Knopfler, or Derek & The Dominos and later 70's era Clapton).

[seteca]

Originally posted by face of glass
At least we both love LB. Otherwise we’d probably be stepping on each other’s throats by now. ;) This is starting to resemble a typical male discussion on cars. ;)

What....are you going to start telling me that the Ferrari 355 ISN'T the greatest car of all time??;):D

It's really great to have you on The Ledge, Face Of Glass. I can't remember the last time a (relatively) new Ledgie instantly made such interesting/relevant points and arguments. A real pleasure to have an FM-related discussion with you.:)

(Inspired by ChiliD's) Just a little disclaimer of my own aswell...! I don't sit down and try to figure out anybody's solo "note for note" either. If I really like a song and I feel like playing the solo, I'll sit down for about 10 minutes with an unplugged guitar and the song playing and just roughly figure out what scales (not the names...that's where I'm musically stupid! Just the shapes!) the solo is based around. Then I just play along to the song, playing in-effect my own solo, based around the original. I feel that's infinitely more emotionally rewarding than sitting down and trying to obsessively figure out and play every note of a solo note for note. When I play along to the live versions of "Come", I don't follow LB's lead at all. I just play whatever I feel like. On the (nowadays) rare occasion that I might play along to the studio version, I play it about 90/95% like LB does (but only because I love the path that solo takes) and the reason for the 5/10% difference isn't because I "can't" play a particular part, but simply because I may at that instant feel like playing a different note(s) on the same scale. But yea, it is very possible to play the studio version solo note for note on the Model One. (Even though a Strat has a very helpful double cutaway it actually is impossible to play the solo on one because it requires fret 23, which of course doesn't exist on the Strat.) I highly doubt that he played it on the Model One though. Whatever it was, it was most likely a double octave neck, double cutaway body, going through a multi-fx box.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

p.s. Actually, I lied, regarding the "never play any solo note for note": it took me a couple of days to figure out the Live in London '94 (PULSE) version of Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb." Ever since I worked out how to play it, I've never changed it even by a single note when I play all 5 minutes of it, because I truly believe it is the greatest pre-arranged solo of all time. Simply an amazing, amazing, musical composition. Kinda feel the same way about the live version of Big Love: I don't change it because it's not meant to be changed.

[seteca]

Originally posted by Gazza
Out of interest, what other lesser known and more famous guitarists has Lindsey been a big influence on? I'm aware of a few but just wondering who I may have missed.

Well I was actually referring to "Mr. X" who nobody has ever heard of but is still an amazing, "pro-level" guitarist. There must be 100s, if not 1000s of unknown guitarists out there in the world who have been heavily influenced by Lindsey Buckingham's playing. (Take the people who "play" Lindsey in all the Fleetwood Mac tribute bands around the world as one example!) There is a guitarist (called Jamie) who plays at the Noble Rot bar in London, during jamming/open sessions there and seeing him play is absolutely awesome. He's the most confident player I have ever seen in my life. He plays the electric with a pick, but he told me his "sense of lead" is totally inspired by Lindsey Buckingham, and his "style" is greatly inspired by Joe Perry.

"Famous" guitarists who have said that they have been greatly influenced/inspired by Lindsey Buckingham's playing include Peter Buck (R.E.M.), Jerry Cantrell (Alice In Chains) and Todd Norcross. I'm sure there are many others but those three come to mind at the moment.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[Les]

Out of interest, what other lesser known and more famous guitarists has Lindsey been a big influence on?

Another addition to Seteca's list: Keith Urban (country artist) has repeatedly cited Lindsey as a big influence.

[Lee]

Why, right here in Delaware! I'm just kidding, really Kristen, I am just kidding. :laugh:

His guitar playing rates right up there with me, & yes, I am biased, very biased. Why he never makes any lists is beyond me. :nod:

Lee :)

[madformac]

Originally posted by seteca
What....are you going to start telling me that the Ferrari 355 ISN'T the greatest car of all time??;):D

Well it's not........ The Ferrari 575 Maranello is! :laugh: :laugh:


Then I just play along to the song, playing in-effect my own solo, based around the original. I feel that's infinitely more emotionally rewarding than sitting down and trying to obsessively figure out and play every note of a solo note for note. When I play along to the live versions of "Come", I don't follow LB's lead at all. I just play whatever I feel like.

And I thought it was just me that did that!!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Live in London '94 (PULSE) version of Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb." ..... I truly believe it is the greatest pre-arranged solo of all time. Simply an amazing, amazing, musical composition.

I can't argue with that one. :nod:

But to think Rolling Stone had David Gilmour down in the 80's in the top 100 guitarists!!!!! :eek: :eek:

[face of glass]

Apologies gentlemen. I couldn’t write to the Ledge yesterday; driving to a Bob Dylan concert and back took most of my spare time.

Originally posted by chiliD
Like Neil Young...Lindsey OVER uses the "one-note solo" thing just WAY too much ("The Chain", most of "I'm So Afraid", on Walter Egan's "Hot Summer Night", John Stewart's "Gold", etc).


I understand that. I guess I’m more tolerant in this case, because I’m a fan who’s not a guitar player. I guess a guitarist longs for more variation to those solos. But in Lindsey’s recent long live solos it can bother me too. Then again I found it funny that Bob Dylan just kept on playing the same thing on his harmonica for several bars in a row last night. Even though he did that a lot, it still came off to me as spontaneous, maybe even too spontaneous. :laugh:

Originally posted by chiliD
If you mean the TONE of his guitar through those solos, yeah...but most of the sound he gets on that are from fx pedals or amp overdrive, not from the guitar itself.

No, I didn’t mean that. I was trying to ask: can you do such fast passages as on the album version with a Turner. I know Lindsey uses other guitars in the studio. But I did realize later that it was a stupid question; after all the reason why Lindsey asked for a Turner to be made was that he could do his fingerpicking more easily. So, as Seteca said, he could play fast on live versions of “Come” if he wanted to. But I guess he doesn’t feel the need to do it.

Originally posted by seteca
What....are you going to start telling me that the Ferrari 355 ISN'T the greatest car of all time??;):D

Hey, it's not about how fast you are, it's about how the sound of the motor pleases your ear. ;) So the greatest car in the world still is a '60s/'70s Volkswagen beetle, in spite of all the trouble you have to go through with it. :laugh:

It's really great to have you on The Ledge, Face Of Glass. I can't remember the last time a (relatively) new Ledgie instantly made such interesting/relevant points and arguments. A real pleasure to have an FM-related discussion with you.:)


Thank you for this. :) I must have lurked here far too long before I actually started posting. And right now I have way too much time to contribute to the Ledge anyway. I know some of my comments may seem anti-fanlike, but they’re not written from that point of view. We all have our ideals of what we want FM to be; we may tolerate changes but sometimes “it’s just too much for me”. And that’s when we start complaining. None of us will ever see the whole picture, not even the band members and that’s important to keep in mind.
I’m not a guitar player, I can only speak of what I hear and feel. And I believe no guitar expert can really say whether Lindsey still “means it” or not when he plays his solos these days (although Lindsey’s playing can always be analysed). And neither can I. I just speak of what I hear and feel.

[littlelies7]

I was expecting him more in the top ten, since he did so much for the band.

For him to not be numero uno is understandable, Hendrix is just fantastic. He deserves it.

P.S. Here's a surprise: I saw CCR's John Fogerty on the list. Yet, he wasn't in the top ten. Just a little factoid.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by littlelies7
Here's a surprise: I saw CCR's John Fogerty on the list.

A BIG surprise. I don't think he's "all that". A great songwriter (just look at all the classic tunes he's written), but not that great of guitarist.