Why does everyone say Lindsey Buckingham IS Fleetwood Mac? [Archive]

LV-Alpha

09-30-2003, 09:59 PM

I am going to presume that people are talking about the recent tour for Say You Will. If you have been to a show or two or more, it is hard not to take note of the fact that Lindsey really does stand out considerably compared to Stevie. Stevie doesn't do a lot of fan interaction these days on stage while Lindsey...well Lindsey is out of his mind! I love Stevie to pieces and she certainly has her strong points to say the least, but Lindsey interacts constantly with the audience and is by far the craziest up there on the stage. He completely lets loose for all to see every night. If I am not mistaken, he mentioned something about how being able to hide behind his guitar and make a fool out of himself helps him to be more comfortable on stage. I am pretty sure he said that quite awhile ago, but something tells me it still holds true today. Also, since Chris isn't there, the show is most definitely more guitar-driven and Lindsey takes complete advantage of that. GYOW, ISA, and Come all have very strong guitar solos attached to them...especially Come and ISA. He also does some crazy lead stuff for a lot of other songs too. People say he steals the show because...well...at least this time around, he does seem to steal the show every night.

Just my .02

Tomara

Hawkeye

09-30-2003, 10:32 PM

Lindsey is by far the craziest up there on the stage

Mick Defintely gives him a run for his money for sure. And especially on the Second leg so does Stevie. Actually as far as energy levels go I'd rate them: Mick, Lindsey, then Stevie RIGHT behind Lindsey. And John is just this great anchor leveling them all out.

mylittledemon

09-30-2003, 10:37 PM

I think that Lindsey has been "unleashed" a bit on this tour. He's getting the press push because he's the most exciting element of the show. I've seen them twice on this tour, and Stevie was boring. Voice was great, her persona was blah. Lindsey is also the most talented member of the band, arguably. And to top it all off, he's a brilliant guitarist who is just now getting some of the recognition he's always deserved. Finally, a personal opinion here, but all the Mac albums without Lindsey haved sucked.

wondergirl9847

09-30-2003, 10:51 PM

This thread COULD stay civil and SHOULD stay civil...and I hope it does. OPINION, PEOPLE OPINION. :nod:

Some people (myself included) believe Lindsey IS FM because he does alot of stuff. He writes, sings, plays guitar, engineers, produces, etc. I think the fact Rumours is this huge phenomenon making Rumours-era FM a classic, huge band in music history and the fact Lindsey had a huge say in Rumours as to the sound, etc, he's looked at by his fans as being the IT of FM. I also believe he is the most talented member of FM because of the fact I stated above, all that he does. I'm not saying the others ARE NOT talented, they are. Also, the fact that the band let him do Tusk kinda says to ME that they were like "You are the leader, g'head."

Now, I'm not even including PRE-Rumours in this argument because first of all, it doesn't apply and secondly, I am a fan and VERY thankful to EVERYONE...Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, Jeremy Spencer, Bob Welch, etc. for keeping the dream alive as FM became the Fireflies FM which exploded.

*These are MY opinions, I'm not saying ANYONE that is or was in FM are not talented. I love em ALL for various reasons. This band NEVER ceases to amaze me with the amount of sheer talent, charisma, charm and strength they have. Everyone who's been part of its history should get the dang recognition they frickin deserve!!

diamondsnake

09-30-2003, 11:05 PM

I started this thread and asked this question. Yes, I have been to the Say You Will concert this year. Even though, obviously Lindsey is the most "show-offy" (not that that is a bad thing), I still say Stevie is just as important. She is subtle and classy and sings wonderully without having to get up there and be insane. I guess I just really love how she can be so wonderful without it seeming like she is trying to show off, does that make any sense?

Not to start anything, but I almost cringed when Mick did his drum solo. I also didn't find Lindsey's doggy style guitar playing that thrilling.

I just love how Stevie is so great and it is so easily acheived. She is not up there straining her voice or telling people "I can't hear you" like Mick, to the audience.

While she may not be bouncing off the walls at the concerts, she still shows class and talent, without making a fool out of herself. (And I am not saying any members of Fleetwood Mac do make a fool of themselves, I am just using that as an example)

Does anyone understand what I am trying to say? I know I am not making the most sense...

wondergirl9847

09-30-2003, 11:29 PM

We all connect with these members differently. Some people love Lindsey's craziness, some love Stevie's whispy, mysterious persona, others like Christine's classiness, etc. It's different for all of us.

Personally, overall, I like male singers better than female, but I do like a few female singers.

There are most definitely lots of people who don't like Lindsey's pawing action and his over-the-top antics he's doin' this go-round, but hey, ya can't please everyone all the time. :shrug:

One more thing, in response to Lindsey going crazy and Stevie not having to go insane, back in the day, when Miss Stevie was in her altered state, she would be very wild onstage, sans any instrument excecpt a tambo, she would be indecipherable at times and kinda scary too. Of course, like I said, she was altered, but still, nonetheless, she was very crazy...i.e. Red Rocks. She was insane like he is today, only in a different way.

Today, she's off drugs and YAY to that, although, we get a more subdued Stevie, but would you rather have an unhealthy Stevie giving a wild, crazy show or a healthy, more subdued Stevie giving a good show? I pick the latter. I wish she still had that crazy fire in her, but I understand why she's not that way anymore.

Sugar

09-30-2003, 11:30 PM

I think Christy is right on the money with this one. Lindsey crafts the whole album in the end. He wears the most hats, and I believe he invests the most time. If Lindsey IS Fleetwood Mac, it's because he is the guy with the big vision. Stevie does her thing and does it well. I suspect she would never want the responsibility Lindsey takes on (Tusk anyone?).

As far as the concerts, Lindsey IS stealing the show. He's really performing, while Stevie isn't nearly so animated. I don't fault her for this. And I don't think any of this makes her "less important". Stevie is an important part of Fleetwood Mac. How could anyone say she's not? She has her thing and she does it like no other (although I've recently decided I think it's time for Stevie to hang up the witch clothes) and that is what makes Stevie great...her inherent Stevieness.

You obviously feel closer to Stevie, and no doubt Stevie is used to getting the biggest piece of cake, but we must make room for all of them...:)

Johnny Stew

10-01-2003, 02:50 AM

I think the band is very much aware of the difficulties Stevie is having with menopause, and Lindsey is helping to compensate for that by being more interactive with the audience, etc.

I imagine Stevie is also happy to let him have his time in the spotlight, since Lindsey has been away from the public eye since 1997, and she has toured twice since then.

She's not taking a backseat to him on the current tour... she's just giving him room to move and shine.
And I think it says a lot about both of them, that they're able to play off each other this way, and to balance one another. They're not trying to show each other up anymore.

As for the question... "Is Lindsey Fleetwood Mac?"
The answer is, no.

Pretty much since the day she first set foot on stage with the band, people have also been saying that Stevie IS Fleetwood Mac, and that's not true either.

No one person is "Fleetwood Mac."
They each play very important and unique roles, and each is just as integral to the band's appeal as the others. :)

shackin'up

10-01-2003, 04:29 AM

Since 1975, Stevie has been the STAR of the group. Now Lindsey's getting some credit. He deserves it, and, looking at Stevie's behaviour on stage and in interviews, she agrees on that one....

TwoTricky

10-01-2003, 07:29 AM

Well, I'll admit (and duck as I say this :laugh: ) I was never a big fan of Lindsey's...Stevie is what drew me to Fleetwood Mac and what keeps me interested...HOWEVER, I appreciate and respect what he does for this band...let's face it...look at how far Fleetwood Mac got WITHOUT him....nowhere!!!

There were what?? 2 Albums w/out Lindsey right....Behind The Mask (which did include Stevie...and her material IMO was less than stellar) and Time (which was w/out Stevie and Lindsey and does anybody even own it LOL)....Clearly Lindsey IS the creative force for Fleetwood Mac...without him...they are basically lost sheep IMO.

As far as this tour goes...I haven't had the privilege to see a show..(I haven't even had the privilege to see the outside world since I broke my leg...but that's another rant!! :D ) but Lindsey seems to be having THE TIME OF HIS LIFE...Imagine for how many years has he "played second fiddle" to Stevie and her whirling and twirling and powerful performances of old...this guy is FINALLY getting his own recognition as an integral part of Fleetwood Mac....Not to mention more stage time....and ya know what...He seems happier than I've ever seen him on stage....so in that respect...YES...this time around Lindsey Buckingham IS what is making Fleetwood Mac a top draw again...I commend him!!

Fleetwood Mac is like your hand....hold up your hand and take the thumb away...(say the thumb is Christine) you have four fingers still able to stand tall...now say Lindsey is the middle finger (or Stevie if you prefer)...fold the middle finger down...your ring finger while still standing....it's a little crooked...the ring finger being Stevie...can stand on her own but something ain't quite right....Clearly Mick and John are "pointer and pinky" 'cause really what else are they gonna do??

I know it's a stupid analogy, but i've only had one cup of coffee this morning:eek:

All in all it all boils down to personal opinion and preference....but we can all agree that ALL of them...TOGETHER...is what makes magic happen:nod:

EricBliss12345

10-01-2003, 07:36 AM

Lindsey Buckingham is a tremendous guitarist, no doubt. His songs are far from being my favorites though. Songwriting is his (admittedly) weak department, and although he came up with some great stuff for Rumours the rest of the stuff he did with the Mac is hit or miss, especially with Tusk and Mirage. It's his strengths as an arranger, instrumentalist, and producer that I respect more than his songs.

As far as songs go, the stuff they did with Bob Welch can be spotty at times too but overall I like Bob's great songs better than Lindseys great songs. I'll take Silver Heels or Night Watch over Eyes Of The World or Go Your Own Way any day. There's good stuff in their entire catalog, Lindsey just happened to be one of the many other musicians that passed through the band. Although he deserves his due in certain areas when it comes to songs Christine, Bob, and Stevie are the ones that really deliver.

reebokandlace

10-01-2003, 08:02 AM

Ducking as i say this......

I think Stevie IS Fleetwood Mac. Regardless of Lindsey's on stage antics on this tour, let's face it, his solo albums have flopped. I know the albums without Lindsey didn't do that great, but people DID show up for the concerts (Tango/BTM/Best Of) with Billy Burnett and Rick Vito because they were coming to see STEVIE.

When Stevie did not tour and Bekka took her place (not that anyone can take Stevie's place) fans did not show up for that tour and sales for the Time album were horrible. Hmmm...

Fleetwood Mac concert without Lindsey = ticket sales
Fleetwood Mac concert without Stevie= Zilch

My opinion: I think if Fleetwood Mac had Lindsey but no Stevie, ticket and CD sales would flop.

Her solo albums sell, his flop. Fact.

dissention

10-01-2003, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by reebokandlace
Ducking as i say this......

I think Stevie IS Fleetwood Mac. Regardless of Lindsey's on stage antics on this tour, let's face it, his solo albums have flopped. I know the albums without Lindsey didn't do that great, but people DID show up for the concerts (Tango/BTM/Best Of) with Billy Burnett and Rick Vito because they were coming to see STEVIE.

When Stevie did not tour and Bekka took her place (not that anyone can take Stevie's place) fans did not show up for that tour and sales for the Time album were horrible. Hmmm...

Fleetwood Mac concert without Lindsey = ticket sales
Fleetwood Mac concert without Stevie= Zilch

My opinion: I think if Fleetwood Mac had Lindsey but no Stevie, ticket and CD sales would flop.

Her solo albums sell, his flop. Fact.

Mac albums without Lindsey and WITH Stevie= bad sales
Mainstream pop rock albums by a recognizable star = good sales
Experimental works of art by a less out-there figure = bad sales

:)

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Lindsey IS Fleetwood Mac, but he invests the most time and effort and blood and sweat and tears into the albums. Without Lindsey, I doubt many of us would be fans of Fleetwood Mac. However, without Stevie, none of us would be fans either. It's not so much that everyone thinks Lindsey is the band, they just think that he's been given the fuzzy end of the lollipop when it comes to getting his dues. He perfected the FM sound that we all love and he is one of the best guitarists out there, IMO. I don't think anyone compares to him; he's genius. Also, out of all of the members, I think he is the most creative. Yeah, Stevie writes beautiful lyrics and melodies, but he does everything and everything very well. Everyone will jump down my throat if I say that he is the best producer for Stevie because he turns some of her rambling bullsh*t into GREAT songs, but I think it's true. Ever heard the pino demo for Gypsy? Lindsey worked wonders on that song. While the melody and tune was all Stevie, Lindsey turned it into something phenomenal. Just listen to the Bella Donna outtake of Gypsy and you'll understand.

So, while every member is integral and make up FM, I think Lindsey is the most creative and talented. That's not to say that Stevie and Chris aren't, they are immensely talented and I love Stevie especially, but Lindsey is an amazement.

And at the SYW concert, I don't think it's so much Stevie being classy and laying low. I think it was more of a case of her not feeling well enough to do all her spinning and schtick. If she felt well, she would've, which she is doing on the second leg. And I don't believe for a minute that she would willingly give up being the spotlight for Lindsey. Sorry, but that's too far-fetched; she adores being the star, she gave up everything to be the star and I don't think she'd give that up for anyone. But Lindsey is just so remarkable that you can't take your eyes off of him. :D

xdreamsunwindx

10-01-2003, 08:37 AM

Well, after seeing the Philly show, it is no contest that Lindsey is my favourite Mac member... of this lineup ;).

Well, my favourite FM member is Christine McVie. That is because I just love her voice, and how she plays the piano. I will admit that Stevie's my favourite songwriter, but I like Chris's songwriting skills as well, probably because I write kind of like she does.

I used to think that Lindsey was egotistical and kind of self-important. *ducks* But that was only because of the interviews I read and I kind of got a bad impression of him. After seeing the Pittsburgh show and the Philly show I completely forgave him. lol. I do think that FM kind of needs him this time around, because A) He has SO much energy, and he interacts with the audience, and B) IMO, I don't think that some of Stevie's songs would have that perfect "sound", you know? This again is in my opinion, but I really don't like the sound of the Mac songs she does on solo concerts. Mainly because of the way the instrumental parts sound, same goes for the Christine solo concerts. I have both of their concert videos, I like them, but I just prefer the way the Mac songs soun WITH Lindsey, John and Mick.

Just my 2 cents :rolleyes:

dissention

10-01-2003, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by xdreamsunwindx
I do think that FM kind of needs him this time around

If they didn't have him around, they'd be up ****s creek without any means of locomotion. :laugh:

cliffdweller

10-01-2003, 08:50 AM

strandinthewind

10-01-2003, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by dissention
And I don't believe for a minute that she would willingly give up being the spotlight for Lindsey. Sorry, but that's too far-fetched; she adores being the star, she gave up everything to be the star and I don't think she'd give that up for anyone. :D

" . . . and we fight for the northern star" - which I have always interpreted as the spotlight :cool:

I think LB is great and very good a producing his and other peoples' usually already good if not great work. I do, however, think SN, CM, MF, and JM all had major input in that creative process so it was not all LB. In other words, SN and CM did not drop off the demos and then go one a six month vacation and then come back to record the vocals and vocie no opinion on the music. In the end, its all about balance and the sum of the group effort, which IMO is greater than the individuality of the parts.

John Run

10-01-2003, 09:20 AM

This post was created for no other reason than to create the absurd, polarizing statements that are being written within this thread.

Fact is the band named for its drummer and bass player is currently fronted by its Female Lead Singer/Songwriter and its Male Guitarist/Lead Singer/Songwriter/Producer. Each of them offers important elements to the groups sophisticated musical mix and interpersonal dynamic.

Stevie is without a doubt more commerically successful, Lindsey has enjoyed great critical acclaim previously and on this tour. As has been said many times about this band, it is the sum total of all the parts added together that make them great not the indviduals themselves.

teedee

10-01-2003, 10:04 AM

I think ppl who are saying lindsey is fleetwood mac, are referring to this tour imparticular. He is always great but he is over the top on this tour. he is getting the chance to make up for there being no piano and using the guitar every chance he gets, i dont blame him, thats what he does and he is being a little bit of an actor, or shall i say comedien, more playful, ie. the victory dance, the boxing. he seems happier and not so serious, which i love seeing him this way! Stevie as well has her moments on stage. But ppl seem to compare what she used to do on stage, with how she is performing today, and thats not fair. she puts on a great show, whether she's twirling or not! this time around lindsey tho is doing things on stage that hes never done , i dont mean his playing, i just mean he is being more playful, his guard is down. when i have seen this tour, i feel as tho i am at a buckingham nicks concert, Christine did help round out fleetwood mac and she is missed. but i am definately enjoying stevie and lindsey having more stage time, i love it.

shackin'up

10-01-2003, 12:02 PM

only mick and john ARE fleetwood mac.:cool:

teedee

10-01-2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by shackin'up
only mick and john ARE fleetwood mac.:cool:

altho john and mick are very talented, without stevie and lindsey, there is no fleetwood mac!

teedee

10-01-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by dissention
If they didn't have him around, they'd be up ****s creek without any means of locomotion. :laugh:

I love lindsey to death, and i do think he is the most underated guitarist. i know that he is an asset to fleetwood mac, but you also have to admit ,if he didnt have fleetwood mac he wouldnt be able to be having the time of his life on stage and touring, dont get me wrong, i m sure he could go out of tour but i dont think it would be on the same level as with the mac, i think its sad that the record label wouldnt let lindsey put out this cd as a solo piece of work, but because its called fleetwood mac its ok, which i heard lindsey say himself in an interview.
i think today without stevie and lindsey there is no fleetwood mac. i think john and mick are lucky that stevie and lindsey are in such a good place with each other that they can pull off this incredible show. i think all members of fleetwood mac need each other. stevie has a solo career on her own, lindsey if he continues with material from out of the cradle and say you will, i think he can do a successful solo career, but with out both of them there is no fleetwood mac.

Vianna

10-01-2003, 01:15 PM

Because he is=:-)

I know I am exaggerating because I love Lindsey, but with the exception of the Peter Green incarnation, thay have never been so good as a band as when they have Lindsey, in my humble opinion. He makes 'em come alive, sparks them-I can't explain it, just know it's true.

darklinensuit

10-01-2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by cliffdweller
you're probably right about the fact that more people show up to see Stevie than Lindsey. However, without Lindsey, Stevie is not at her best in Fleetwood Mac (see BTM and Time) so her performance/material suffers. Neither Stevie nor Lindsey ARE Fleetwood Mac, it takes both of them IMO. I'm really not interested in seeing Fleetwood Mac without both of them, they're a packaged deal, it's either both or none for me.

However, I WILL, and love to see Stevie a gazillion times solo and I don't really have a huge interest in seeing Lindsey solo, (notice I said huge, I have a moderate interest in his solo stuff). But those two together in Fleetwood Mac is just magic, I love Christine too but if one of the fabulous trio had to go I guess it would have to be her~sigh~...... I hate picking favorites~!

ITA with all of this (though I would pay to see the Mac with just Stevie).
(Minor correction: I don't think you meant to put that Stevie was in the Time band or album.)

- JAKE

tothegypsy

10-02-2003, 02:05 AM

I have nothing against Lindsey, but I really don't find his Say You Will tour antics entertaining. The whole I'm gonna swing my guitar around and stomp my feet thing isn't believable on him. He isn't a member of KISS or Bon Jovi.

strandinthewind

10-02-2003, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by tothegypsy
I have nothing against Lindsey, but I really don't find his Say You Will tour antics entertaining. The whole I'm gonna swing my guitar around and stomp my feet thing isn't believable on him. He isn't a member of KISS or Bon Jovi.

I, too, am not wild about his swinging the guitar during Come, ISA, and GYOW as it is the same "over the top" performance every night. Having said that, I would put up with just about anything to hear that man play his many guitars, many, many people like it, and, unlike my rabid-like fan nature, most people see it only once . . . :cool:

And then there is the whole druggie like possessed stomping during the "Stand Back" intro - but if people put up with La Nicks' craziness then . . . :laugh:

sodascouts

10-02-2003, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I, too, am not wild about his swinging the guitar during Come, ISA, and GYOW as it is the same "over the top" performance every night.

I don't mind the guitar swinging so much, but I do roll my eyes at the Stand Back guitar-humping and the doggie-paddling. I don't know why he thinks that's cool, especially the Stand Back stuff. I think he might think we gals find the SB humping sexy but far from it. Why would we like it when we know we're not necessary for that kind of "self-love"? lol! But everything else is fine with me. I love it when he lifts his guitar over his head and we see skin. ;)

David

10-02-2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
It's his strengths as an arranger, instrumentalist, and producer that I respect more than his songs. As does he!

David

10-02-2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Today, she's off drugs and YAY to that, although, we get a more subdued Stevie, but would you rather have an unhealthy Stevie giving a wild, crazy show or a healthy, more subdued Stevie giving a good show? I'm gonna plead the Fifth here. . . .

David

10-02-2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by reebokandlace
I think Stevie IS Fleetwood Mac. Regardless of Lindsey's on stage antics on this tour, let's face it, his solo albums have flopped. I know the albums without Lindsey didn't do that great, but people DID show up for the concerts (Tango/BTM/Best Of) with Billy Burnett and Rick Vito because they were coming to see STEVIE.I'm a fan & I showed up back then to see & hear Christine &, of course, my fave rhythm section, beside whom other rock rhythm sections just seem to have no infectiousness. I had tired of Stevie's doughy, enervated shtick by then.

My opinion: I think if Fleetwood Mac had Lindsey but no Stevie, ticket and CD sales would flop. Her solo albums sell, his flop. Fact. Her solo albums are greeted by the rock press & by other musicians thus: "How can someone so hip also be so incredibly stupid?" His solo albums are showered with praise & comparisons are drawn to Brian Wilson. Fact.

This whole thing is really silly. Stevie has strengths as a singer & performer & weaknesses as an arranger, producer & instrumentalist. Lindsey also has various strengths & weaknesses, as do Christine, John, Mick, Peter, Danny, Bob, etc. Fleetwood Mac was always about the group, not the individual star-czar. Peter saw that truth way back in the beginning.

cliffdweller

10-02-2003, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by darklinensuit
(Minor correction: I don't think you meant to put that Stevie was in the Time band or album.)

- JAKE

You're right, I meant to write something else there and forgot to delete it all!

-Tracye

strandinthewind

10-02-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by David
Her solo albums are greeted by the rock press & by other musicians thus: "How can someone so hip also be so incredibly stupid?" His solo albums are showered with praise & comparisons are drawn to Brian Wilson. Fact.

I think you are not reading enough articles/reviews. :laugh:

Although they may call her stuff a fairy tale, I do not remember any of Stevie's solo recording a being totally dissed in any major periodical and I cannot recall anyone calling her stupid. In fact, the TISL reviews were calling her an icon and a survivor in a tough music world. Also, the Timespace reviews from the major sources showered her with praise and some even said she was finally proving she was substantial within her fairy tale :laugh: Even Street Angel got okay reviews by Rolling Stone and other magazines. :cool:

joe

10-02-2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I think you are not reading enough articles/reviews. :laugh:

Although they may call her stuff a fairy tale, I do not remember any of Stevie's solo recording a being totally dissed in any major periodical and I cannot recall anyone calling her stupid. In fact, the TISL reviews were calling her an icon and a survivor in a tough music world. Also, the Timespace reviews from the major sources showered her with praise and some even said she was finally proving she was substantial within her fairy tale :laugh: Even Street Angel got okay reviews by Rolling Stone and other magazines. :cool:

obviously, you're a newer fan....David's right. I've been a fan since 1981 and back then (and even before that) she wasn't NOT getting praise all around as an icon. She definately was viewed as airy fairy and ditzy. It wasn't until the 90's that she was getting more of the praise. I think when she first started her solo career she was still considered relatively new and they type of persona she adopted was not really the norm so a lot of people didn't know what to do with her except roll their eyes and chuckle. When you're a little off center that's the kind of reaction you're going to get. The public has to have enough time to really adapt and then appreciate you. It also helps that she was in a legendary band like FM.

joe

10-02-2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by David
I'm gonna plead the Fifth here. . . .

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

David...you kill me!!! hahahaha....cause you know i think i'm going to do the same!

strandinthewind

10-02-2003, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by joe
obviously, you're a newer fan....David's right. I've been a fan since 1981 and back then (and even before that) she wasn't NOT getting praise all around as an icon. She definately was viewed as airy fairy and ditzy. It wasn't until the 90's that she was getting more of the praise. I think when she first started her solo career she was still considered relatively new and they type of persona she adopted was not really the norm so a lot of people didn't know what to do with her except roll their eyes and chuckle. When you're a little off center that's the kind of reaction you're going to get. The public has to have enough time to really adapt and then appreciate you. It also helps that she was in a legendary band like FM.

Actually, I have been a fan since 1975 - so I remember the really bad reviews with FM in the early days :cool:

But, when Bella Donna came out, it got good and some great reviews. Yes, "they" (mostly men who had no clue what she was talking about and/or her delivery of it) were calling her music a fairy tale, but Rolling Stone and other main stream periodicals did not 100% slam her for Bella Donna. To wit - "Bella Donna proves that Fleetwood Mac's blond priestess of the occult can stand on her own as a solo act." See http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=49138 Granted the article slams her writing as airy fairy, but concludes it has a place in the world and it works - they gave it three stars out of five, which is a good review. In fact, that review is where the phrase "how can anyone so hip also be so incredibly silly," not "stupid," came from. Also, it is important to remember the times were changing about then from rock and roll being basically male dominated in every aspect (producer on down) to stronger women asserting themselves and demanding respect a la Pat Benatar which made the road easier for the women in rock today. All in all, I think that for as dizzy as Stevie's lyrics can be, the critics (again mostly male) were somewhat nice to her solo stuff and her longevity and popularity even in the 1989-94 years certainly proved her critics wrong as many of them have admitted.

My $0.02

Also, to be fair, Rolling Stone slammed her next three records and then Street Angel :laugh: Yet, even in the slamming, the reviewers always complimented her. It was all a little schizo to me. It was like they were saying "Well, if I don't slam her I am out of the boys club, but I will put enough in there so that I do not betray the fact that I really like her stuff even though it is not considered cool by my peers to do so" :laugh:

Actually, my favorite quote is from the Rolling Stone review of "The Other Side of the Mirror" - "Though she's a performer whose reputation is tightly entwined with her personality, Stevie Nicks is usually only as good as the collaborators with whom she chooses to make music" and then "Like her previous records, The Other Side of the Mirror shows Nicks can stand tall with the top rank of contemporary rockers, but she's not nearly consistent enough to sustain a whole album."

Interestingly, Stevie has pretty much always admitted she is only as good as her producers.

wondergirl9847

10-02-2003, 03:34 PM

Hindsight is 20/20...in regards to Stevie's solo albums. Belladonna may have been looked at as airy fairy, but today, it's a classic album, IMO. It's her best and my fave. :)

Look at everyone's take on Tusk...back then, it was "You screwed up, Lindsey." Today, it's "WOW, that album frickin rocks. Good job, Lindsey."

CarneVaca

10-02-2003, 04:05 PM

To the original question: Because he is.

dissention

10-02-2003, 06:15 PM

Sorry, but besides for Bella Donna and TISL, all of her solo efforts were met with *mostly* (not all) lukewarm reviews. They were viewed as definitely rocking, but flakey and dumb. Rock A Little was especially singled out as being gawd-awful. I especially loved Rolling Stone's view on I Sing For the Things. ;) And their take on SA was dead-on.

Here are some of my fave review quotes, even though I don't agree with all of them:

"In "Stand Back," she sings, "No one knows/How I feel/What I say/Unless you read between my lines." Well, whose fault is that?"

"It's hard to believe that the woman nominally responsible for such fine pieces of songcraft as "I Don't Want to Know" or even "Edge of Seventeen" could have concocted the inchoate ramblings that pervade this record [The Wild Heart]. Stanzas don't hang together, and choruses verge on the utterly meaningless..."

"Both the atmosphere and language of Bella Donna are so insular and self-enraptured that Stevie Nicks' sentiments seem as weightless as those of a pampered, pretty high-school girl."

"The real shame is that Stevie Nicks could make good records again, if she'd only follow her own advice and rock a little."

"On the rest of Rock a Little, she comes on like an AM-radio psychologist, dispensing stem but friendly advice, spinning little parables and probing deep feelings with incredibly vague language."

"As for a statement of purpose, "I Sing for the Things" ("that money can't buy," natch) is definitely postfeminist: "I'll take off my cape for you ... Anything you want me to do.... I'll sit at home and wait for you." Maybe it's just my taste, but the combined synths and steel guitars on that track achieve the consistency of curdled milk."

"Too often Nicks is stuck in a mid-tempo funk, bellowing about witches, gypsies and twisted love. Like her previous records, The Other Side of the Mirror shows Nicks can stand tall with the top rank of contemporary rockers, but she's not nearly consistent enough to sustain a whole album."

"Although Stevie Nicks' child-woman persona has served her well for 20 years, it's long overdue for the doe-eyed innocent to get tough. Her steadfast adherence to a fairy-tale world is endearing but frustrating."

"Refusing to spit and kick like Bonnie Raitt or Kim Gordon, she trembles instead, a little girl made helpless by uncaring men and her own isolation."

"Nowadays, singing more like a female Bon Jovi than the exuberant sprite she was in bygone Lindsey Buckingham/Richard Dashut years, Nicks flounders in gossamer and overpowering guitar licks, too entangled in her own fantasy to open her musical vision to the rest of us."

strandinthewind

10-02-2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
To the original question: Because he is.

:eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Too bad poor spoiled brat, runny nose, whiny baby LB couldn't sell a record or get his allegedly oh so great latest solo album out after about eight years of trying; during that same time, Stevie finished her two highly successful and critically acclaimed records and tours. Then, she came on board as a favor - AND I do I believe LB was with John and Mick (i.e. Fleetwood Mac) at least part of the time!!!!! :mad: I guess LB, John, and Mick add up to three but LB, John, Mick and Stevie add up to five because Stevie represents not only talent but sales!!!! ;)

(For those who do not realize it, I am ribbing Carne in a good natured way and really do not mean to be so hateful :wavey: :wavey: )

sulamith

10-02-2003, 09:16 PM

Strandie, son, that's why I LUV ya, you silver-tongued Nawleans mojo devil!!

Preach IT!

LMAO!!!

-Sharon

dissention

10-02-2003, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
:eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Too bad poor spoiled brat, runny nose, whiny baby LB couldn't sell a record or get his allegedly oh so great latest solo album out after about eight years of trying; during that same time, Stevie finished her two highly successful and critically acclaimed records and tours. Then, she came on board as a favor - AND I do I believe LB was with John and Mick (i.e. Fleetwood Mac) at least part of the time!!!!! :mad: I guess LB, John, and Mick add up to three but LB, John, Mick and Stevie add up to five because Stevie represents not only talent but sales!!!! ;)

(For those who do not realize it, I am ribbing Carne in a good natured way and really do not mean to be so hateful :wavey: :wavey: )

Ah, but she obviously didn't help sales with Behind the Mask. ;)

And besides for TISL, no other album was critically acclaimed. The boxed set for Enchanted was noted as being the best representation of her solo work, but was faulted for being a bit too much of a good thing. And while the Enchanted tour was critically acclaimed, the TISL tour wasn't exactly acclaimed. It was noted for her going through the motions, almost robotically, and not having much stamina vocally. Of course, this could be attributed to her health. But while the TISL tour made good money, the Enchanted tour didn't do as well, which was disappointing considering the success of The Dance.

:laugh:

Johnny Stew

10-02-2003, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by dissention
Ah, but she obviously didn't help sales with Behind the Mask. ;)Ah, but one could easily disagree with that!
'Behind The Mask' charted in the Top 20, and quickly went gold.

Without Stevie, 'Time' didn't even chart, and sold only around 250,000 copies.

Not even Christine's presence, or a guest appearance from Lindsey, saved 'Time' from quickly dropping off the radar... meanwhile, the year prior, 'Street Angel' (Stevie's least successful solo album), peaked at #45, and eventually went gold (though it did take quite some time).

Like it or not, Stevie's presence in Fleetwood Mac is just as important as Lindsey's... perhaps moreso, where album and ticket sales are concerned.

But again, as I've stated, no one person is Fleetwood Mac.

dissention

10-02-2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Ah, but one could easily disagree with that!
'Behind The Mask' charted in the Top 20, and quickly went gold.

Without Stevie, 'Time' didn't even chart, and sold only around 250,000 copies.

Not even Christine's presence, or a guest appearance from Lindsey, saved 'Time' from quickly dropping off the radar... meanwhile, the year prior, 'Street Angel' (Stevie's least successful solo album), peaked at #45, and eventually went gold (though it did take quite some time).

Like it or not, Stevie's presence in Fleetwood Mac is just as important as Lindsey's... perhaps moreso, where album and ticket sales are concerned.

But again, as I've stated, no one person is Fleetwood Mac.

Ah, but it sold terribly compared to other Mac records with Stevie. And while it debuted in the top twenty, it sank like a stone.

Let us also not forget that there was almost no promotion for Time, too. There was plenty for other Mac records and lots for Street Angel the previous year.

And saying it took some time for SA to be certified gold is an understatement; it took three years and holds the title for the worst selling Nicks album. Six years after being certified gold, it still hasn't reached platinum status.

So, what I conclude, is that Stevie and Lindsey are just as important in the Mac. Without Lindsey, the albums flop. Without Stevie, the albums flop. Without both of them, the albums flop.

Hawkeye

10-02-2003, 10:30 PM

I'm suprised ChiliD hasn't chimed in yet and responded to some of these how can I say this nicely really "stupid" coments :lol: I don't mean to offend anyone but you SHOULD NOT use sales as a measure of greatness. Lindsey's solo albums sold like crap, SO WHAT. Does that mean Mirage is better then SYW because it SOLD more. I think not. And The debate over whether Stevie or Lindsey or both ARE Fleetwood Mac, are all wasting your time, bnecause Mick and John ARE Fleetwood Mac. They may not sell alot or they may not even be that good to some people, but they ARE Fleetwood Mac, and have been the heads of SEVERAL amazing lineups of this band.

gldstwmn

10-02-2003, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by dissention
Everyone will jump down my throat if I say that he is the best producer for Stevie because he turns some of her rambling bullsh*t into GREAT songs, but I think it's true. Ever heard the pino demo for Gypsy? Lindsey worked wonders on that song. While the melody and tune was all Stevie, Lindsey turned it into something phenomenal. Just listen to the Bella Donna outtake of Gypsy and you'll understand.

D

Listen Snotty Applebuns, I have a version of Gypsy that (I think, don't quote me) has The Heartbreakers backing her. I, like you, always thought LB turned this song into the masterpiece that it truly is, until I heard this. The version is very, very similar to what appeared on Mirage, making me wonder if Petty or Iovine were the ones responsible for the molding of this song. Now that breathtaking guitar part at the end of the song, that's all LB. And I love the "Oh, Oh, Oh" version that appeared on Neil's site recently. But I digress. Lindsey is not Fleetwood Mac by himself. Fleetwood Mac is the sum of their parts.

dissention

10-02-2003, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Hawkeye
I don't mean to offend anyone but you SHOULD NOT use sales as a measure of greatness.

No one is using that measure. :) We're just conversing about how different line-ups affect the sales and success of the band. :)

dissention

10-02-2003, 10:41 PM

gldstwmn

10-02-2003, 10:44 PM

I've just been waiting for the opportunity to call you Snotty Applebuns. I'm sending it.:)

dissention

10-02-2003, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I've just been waiting for the opportunity to call you Snotty Applebuns. I'm sending it.:)

:laugh:

Check your email!

jwd

10-02-2003, 11:27 PM

Why, oh why does everyone seem to think that Lindsey Buckingham IS Fleetwood Mac?

I never thought that EVERYONE did. And for those who thought he IS Fleetwood Mac..... :shrug: :laugh:

Joe

macfan 57

10-03-2003, 06:14 AM

I think no one person is Fleetwood Mac. It's whoever happens to be in the band at any given moment. As for sales figures, it's pretty obvious that the Rumours line up with all 5 members sells. Behind the Mask, Time & Say You Will all had very important members missing and all of these albums didn't sell well because of it.

joe

10-03-2003, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Listen Snotty Applebuns

Originally posted by dissention
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

NO, you listen Loopy Bubble Humperdink!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
you guys are killing me!

:thumbsup:

David

10-03-2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Listen Snotty Applebuns, I have a version of Gypsy that (I think, don't quote me) has The Heartbreakers backing her. I, like you, always thought LB turned this song into the masterpiece that it truly is, until I heard this. The version is very, very similar to what appeared on Mirage, making me wonder if Petty or Iovine were the ones responsible for the molding of this song. Now that breathtaking guitar part at the end of the song, that's all LB. I don't think it sounds very similar to the Fleetwood Mac "Mirage" recording, but I'm maybe a little nutso. On the Heartbreakers' recording of it (which may have actually come after the Mac tracked it in Herouville), you've got essentially a very standard series of Heartbreakers signature riffs & styles: Benmont's chunky B3 organ chords with plenty of on-again, off-again Leslie; Stan Lynch's galloping drums in brisk time; Mike Campbell's rhythm strumming of the chords; & the loping bass, which probably sounds the most like the Fleetwood Mac style. It has its own merits, like energy, immediacy. But it's essentially just a Heartbreakers jam, & the only similarity I can hear between it & the Mac recording is the chord progression.

The Mac's version, on the other hand, is a (some might say suffocatingly) stylized work built on a pentatonic riff & an intricately arranged pattern of choral backup vocals. It's just a whole different feel & approach. In fact, the accompaniment on the bridge "To the gypsy that I was" on the Heartbreakers version kicks in to this spare drums & bass thing with a little funk -- really totally different from the fake strings & pedal points in the backup vocal choir in the Mac's version.

Do you remember the crashing mess it was on the solo '83 tour? "Gypsy" lost her velvet.

chiliD

10-03-2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Hawkeye
I'm suprised ChiliD hasn't chimed in yet and responded to some of these how can I say this nicely really "stupid" coments :lol:

For this RARE occasion, I invoked the "Thumper rule". If I DID respond the way I would like, I'd most likely get all three strikes on one post alone.

gldstwmn

10-03-2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by David
I don't think it sounds very similar to the Fleetwood Mac "Mirage" recording, but I'm maybe a little nutso. On the Heartbreakers' recording of it (which may have actually come after the Mac tracked it in Herouville), you've got essentially a very standard series of Heartbreakers signature riffs & styles: Benmont's chunky B3 organ chords with plenty of on-again, off-again Leslie; Stan Lynch's galloping drums in brisk time; Mike Campbell's rhythm strumming of the chords; & the loping bass, which probably sounds the most like the Fleetwood Mac style. It has its own merits, like energy, immediacy. But it's essentially just a Heartbreakers jam, & the only similarity I can hear between it & the Mac recording is the chord progression.

The Mac's version, on the other hand, is a (some might say suffocatingly) stylized work built on a pentatonic riff & an intricately arranged pattern of choral backup vocals. It's just a whole different feel & approach. In fact, the accompaniment on the bridge "To the gypsy that I was" on the Heartbreakers version kicks in to this spare drums & bass thing with a little funk -- really totally different from the fake strings & pedal points in the backup vocal choir in the Mac's version.

Do you remember the crashing mess it was on the solo '83 tour? "Gypsy" lost her velvet.

From you're description, I'd say we're listening to the same version. It is a more uptempo version but the chord progression is the same. As far as the minutae of the arrangement, I'm not a musician so I can't really respond to that. There's no date on it, so it well could have been recorded post Herouville. I suspect though, that Stevie & The Heartbreakers did the bulk of their studio work prior to that and the melody that we all know was already in place when she brought it to Lindsey, if that is the case. My opinion is he put the finishing touches on the masterpiece, where others think he actually painted it. :)

strandinthewind

10-03-2003, 01:09 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gldstwmn
Listen Snotty Applebuns
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dissention

NO, you listen Loopy Bubble Humperdink!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do I feel as if we are in a bar consuming large amount s of alcohol?

:laugh:

dissention

10-03-2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Why do I feel as if we are in a bar consuming large amount s of alcohol?

:laugh:

Who says we aren't? Fetch me another vodka on the rocks and hold the orange juice this time. ;) :laugh:

I think the version that was brought up sounds very similar to the Mirage version. I think the melody and the beat are almost identical. :) Of course, compared to the album version, it is very stripped down, but I think the meat and potatoes of the song are on that demo.

Cammie

10-03-2003, 07:36 PM

:wavey: David I love when you talk Music!!!

Did not Tom Petty say as how he tried
to produce Stevie's music...heard what
Lindsey did with it!(slaps head!) "Then
it dawned on me...of course...that's it!"
"I think he's her best producer!!!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mick Fleetwood and John MacVie =
The Mac Machine's Underpinnings!:)
Mick and John~ Forever The Mac!!!

HomerMcvie

03-26-2006, 04:25 PM

All this shows that Lindsey pretty much is Fleetwood Mac, especially now.

Hmmm, opinions are like.........what is it?:rolleyes:

And talk about resurrecting an antique thread!

DavidMn

03-26-2006, 05:20 PM

Hmmm, opinions are like.........what is it?:rolleyes:

And talk about resurrecting an antique thread!Oh what the hell. Its god to dust off those old books sometimes.:laugh:

shackin'up

03-26-2006, 05:50 PM

All this shows that Lindsey pretty much is Fleetwood Mac, especially now.

F.

Ladies and gentlemen, would you please give a warm welcome.....to F.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:thumbsup:

jbrownsjr

03-26-2006, 07:22 PM

strandinthewind

03-26-2006, 07:38 PM

I prefer Mirage much more than SYW.

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!

HomerMcvie

03-26-2006, 07:43 PM

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!
Me thrice!:thumbsup:

I think I'll put that ****ty CD transfer on now.......

SteveMacD

03-26-2006, 09:20 PM

Obviously the texture and production are Lindsey's doing.
Eh, I don't know if I agree. Of the last three studio albums (BTM, Time, and SYW), I think "Time" has the best overall sound quality. So, I'd have to say that the production that is classic Mac has more to do with Richard Dashut.
All this shows that Lindsey pretty much is Fleetwood Mac, especially now.
The thing that keeps me coming back is McVie's bass playing. It's probably the most tasteful thing on a Fleetwood Mac album.

David

03-26-2006, 09:46 PM

The thing that keeps me coming back is McVie's bass playing. It's probably the most tasteful thing on a Fleetwood Mac album.His ex-wife's playing is equally tasteful. Can I get an AMEN from Mary Anne & Homer & jbrownsjr? :thumbsup:

ThePenguin

03-26-2006, 10:29 PM

His ex-wife's playing is equally tasteful. Can I get an AMEN from Mary Anne & Homer & jbrownsjr? :thumbsup:

You'll get one from me. AMEN. :)

-Lis

Miss Vicky

03-26-2006, 10:57 PM

His ex-wife's playing is equally tasteful. Can I get an AMEN from Mary Anne & Homer & jbrownsjr? :thumbsup:

I'll agree that both McVies are immensely talented.

But I still remain steadfastly in the camp that believes that Lindsey Buckingham is what made the band (at least the Rumours incarnation of it) great.

catinthedark

03-26-2006, 11:06 PM

i think every member brought his or her own talents to the band - and that's what made the band work. each brought something different - and to compare one to another is to compare apples and oranges. i have honestly never understood the whole "who is the better/more talented/smarter/ bandmember" thing. nor have i understood why if one person likes stevie the best, it's assumed he/she has no respect or love for lindsey or christine, or if one person thinks lindsey is the most talented, it means he/she has no respect or love for john or mick.

David

03-26-2006, 11:30 PM

You'll get one from me. AMEN. :) Hallelujah, sista!

From a musican standpoint, it's pretty amazing that here you had this husband & wife, both blues & rock musicians, & their styles are so beautifully complementary & both so "tasteful" as MacDougall says that you can't help thinking they both had enormous influence on each other in terms of style & approach.

It really worked out luckily for both of them in terms of their development. What a happy, fortunate set of circumstances! I feel more than certain that John played a big role in Christine's development as a rhythm keyboard player of a very specific type, & that Chris played a big role (perhaps not as big?) in John's developing style as a bassist. The source of this two-way influence would have been all those weeks, months & ultimately years that they spent at home or in studios & rehearsal rooms playing together, following each other, listening to each other, mimicking each other musically, learning to play in each other's pocket. You add Mick into the mix--with his special timekeeping style--& you really get a heady brew rhythm section for Fleetwood Mac all those years, the kind of rhythm section that was singled out for its excellence by countless critics & musicians, even to this day. (In 29 or 30 years of reading concert reviews of Fleetwood Mac, I can't remember even once reading a critic say that the rhythm section was anything less than first-rate powerhouse solid.)

Fans talk about the luck of the combination of the 1977 five people in creating such potent chemistry, but I think the luck of the combination of the three Britishers was equally amazing, & the musical chemistry those three created as a rhythm section was just as potent, totally irrespective of Nicks & Buckingham, or of Green/Kirwan/Spencer before that.

HomerMcvie

03-27-2006, 12:56 AM

I'll agree that both McVies are immensely talented.

But I still remain steadfastly in the camp that believes that Lindsey Buckingham is what made the band (at least the Rumours incarnation of it) great.
Firstly, an AMEN to David's prompt.

I can't believe anyone who gives a really good listen to the pre BN stuff, can't have an equal, or greater, appreciation of the work. Not implying you think so, but sales mean squat! (where IS Johnny Stew????, to endlessly point out to me that Chris had the most hits, therefore she must be evil).
Mystery To Me IS the greatest FM album!!!
And on a personal note, LB is a big f*cking spoiled brat, crybaby!:thumbsup: Extremely talented.....but nonetheless......

Miss Vicky

03-27-2006, 02:29 AM

Firstly, an AMEN to David's prompt.

I can't believe anyone who gives a really good listen to the pre BN stuff, can't have an equal, or greater, appreciation of the work. Not implying you think so, but sales mean squat! (where IS Johnny Stew????, to endlessly point out to me that Chris had the most hits, therefore she must be evil).
Mystery To Me IS the greatest FM album!!!
And on a personal note, LB is a big f*cking spoiled brat, crybaby!:thumbsup: Extremely talented.....but nonetheless......

All I'm saying is that LB (spoiled f*cking brat or not) is what I love about the Rumours era line-up. That is not, however, to imply that I dislike other members (though I'm not especially fond of Stevie or Mick) or incarnations of the band (I think I've made my love of the post Tango pre Dance era pretty obvious), I just like them for other reasons and at lower intensities, shall we say.

And for the record, the greatest pre-BN Fleetwood Mac album is Bare Trees!

HomerMcvie

03-27-2006, 02:43 AM

All I'm saying is that LB (spoiled f*cking brat or not) is what I love about the Rumours era line-up. That is not, however, to imply that I dislike other members (though I'm not especially fond of Stevie or Mick) or incarnations of the band (I think I've made my love of the post Tango pre Dance era pretty obvious), I just like them for other reasons and at lower intensities, shall we say.
I will admit that Lindsey brought to the table, a certain edge, which I do appreciate. All the Rumours drama, that they still milk, while approaching their senior-citizen years!, has greatly diluted their value, IMO, to the history of FM.
Still milking this, screams that they're simply money whores now, NOT to be confused with STILL being artists.
FWIW, Mick and Stevie are my least favorites, too.

And for the record, the greatest pre-BN Fleetwood Mac album is Bare Trees! BT is my second favorite, after MTM. Then FG.

macfan 57

03-27-2006, 06:40 AM

His ex-wife's playing is equally tasteful. Can I get an AMEN from Mary Anne & Homer & jbrownsjr? :thumbsup:

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

Fans talk about the luck of the combination of the 1977 five people in creating such potent chemistry, but I think the luck of the combination of the three Britishers was equally amazing, & the musical chemistry those three created as a rhythm section was just as potent, totally irrespective of Nicks & Buckingham, or of Green/Kirwan/Spencer before that.

I completely agree. When I think of the Fleetwood Mac rhythm section, I think of Mick, John AND Christine, as a unit.

Gailh

03-27-2006, 07:32 AM

Why, oh why does everyone seem to think that Lindsey Buckingham IS Fleetwood Mac? I can't even go to amazon.com and read one stupid review without someone saying how he steals the show and he is the best.

I dont think everyone thinks Lindsey is Fleetwood Mac.

You can make a good case for several contenders for that title:

Peter Green - founding father
Mick & John - Fleetwood and Mac - the only constants
Christine - wrote more hits than anyone else
Stevie - focal point, songwriter (didn't do her any harm that she used to be drop dead gorgeous either)
Lindsey - songwriter, producer, guitar player

No one person is Fleetwood Mac

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Gail

Miss Vicky

03-27-2006, 10:28 AM

I will admit that Lindsey brought to the table, a certain edge, which I do appreciate. All the Rumours drama, that they still milk, while approaching their senior-citizen years!, has greatly diluted their value, IMO, to the history of FM.
Still milking this, screams that they're simply money whores now, NOT to be confused with STILL being artists.
FWIW, Mick and Stevie are my least favorites, too.

BT is my second favorite, after MTM. Then FG.

I really don't give a crap about "all the Rumours drama." I am decidedly not a shipper. I get a queasy feeling everytime Stevie goes up to Lindsey during their performances (esp. "Landslide") or they give each other those "looks" but I deal with it because I love the music so much. Are they money whores? Probably. But I still believe that they are genuine artists as well. They've just decided to add acting to their collective repetoire.

DavidMn

03-27-2006, 12:41 PM

Me thrice!:thumbsup:

I think I'll put that ****ty CD transfer on now.......I will respectfully disagree with you sir.:)

DavidMn

03-27-2006, 12:42 PM

His ex-wife's playing is equally tasteful. Can I get an AMEN from Mary Anne & Homer & jbrownsjr? :thumbsup:I'll throw mine in too. AMEN!

chiliD

03-27-2006, 12:45 PM

No one person is Fleetwood Mac

That's right...it's Fleetwood & McVie. :laugh:

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

:thumbsup:

Same holds true for The Beatles, as well.

DavidMn

03-27-2006, 12:52 PM

That's right...it's Fleetwood & McVie. :laugh:

:thumbsup:

Same holds true for The Beatles, as well.On the subject of Mr McVie, have you ever seen a bigger rock star with as small an ego as John has?

JazmenFlowers

03-27-2006, 01:05 PM

Why, oh why does everyone seem to think that Lindsey Buckingham IS Fleetwood Mac? I can't even go to amazon.com and read one stupid review without someone saying how he steals the show and he is the best.

Am I the only one who likes the women in this band more then Lindsey? I like Stevie so much better then Lindsey.... and I like Christine so much better then Lindsey. Not that he is not great, but I am so sick of everyone thinking that he is the best, or he is the star of fleetwood mac.

Does anyone want to debate this topic? Please, I am very bored!
I will just say that FM, to me, has always been about the way the group works, sounds, plays together. Obviously, I have a special place in my black heart for Stevie, but when I think of FM, I don't give any special ranking to any of the members. They all need each other to have that special magic. Lindsey is a very talented person, as is Stevie, Christine and the rest of FM...they all have ingredients that make FM so special. I don't think Lindsey IS FM anymore than I think Stevie is FM. And honestly, I've never really been bombarded by people thinking Lindsey is FM, it's usually Stevie is FM that gets feathers all ruffled. I don't think she is FM, she certainly improves the group, imo, but it's not like "oh there's Stevie and dem oder bitches" - it's "oh there's FM" - at least to me.

as a side note, I always call Destiny's Child Beyonce and dem oder two bitches...that's a prime example of the issue I think being raised here.

HomerMcvie

03-27-2006, 01:14 PM

I will respectfully disagree with you sir.:)
You DO understand that my point WAS that Mirage-on CD- is a terrible recording, right? It wasn't mastered properly, and the levels are REALLY low on it. NO ONE has ever argued that point, til you David.:lol: :lol: :wavey: :p

DavidMn

03-27-2006, 01:16 PM

You DO understand that my point WAS that Mirage-on CD- is a terrible recording, right? It wasn't mastered properly, and the levels are REALLY low on it. NO ONE has ever argued that point, til you David.:lol: :lol: :wavey: :pSOrry about that sir. My apologies. I 'm was thinking of the albums themselves.

chiliD

03-27-2006, 01:37 PM

as a side note, I always call Destiny's Child Beyonce and dem oder two bitches...that's a prime example of the issue I think being raised here.

Go back a generation or two and the same can be said for The Supremes ("Diana Ross and dem oder two bitches")

DavidMn

03-27-2006, 01:39 PM

Go back a generation or two and the same can be said for The Supremes ("Diana Ross and dem oder two bitches")I know. Alot of people dont remember who else was in the Supremes.

chiliD

03-27-2006, 01:57 PM

Mary Wilson & Cindy Birdsong, but then who're (Hmmm..nice contraction there, chili) the other two in Destiny's Child?

wondergirl9847

03-27-2006, 02:29 PM

Kelly Rowland and Michelle Williams. Michelle put out a gospel album while DC was on downtime...so I don't understand the whore thing.

chiliD

03-27-2006, 03:15 PM

Kelly Rowland and Michelle Williams. Michelle put out a gospel album while DC was on downtime...so I don't understand the whore thing.

Instead of typing "who are", I contracted it to "who're"...I didn't realize how that looked until I proof-read my post...then added my comment.

The Nisse

03-27-2006, 05:09 PM

...didn't Stevie take more chances with the SYW-project? I mean, more than half the songs she contributed were old. She could have stalled the project if she needed more time, surely. Not that old is a bad thing, it just indicates her level of adventure-seeking..

And the tour... Man, she didn't take one step that surprised anyone. Oh yeah, she played Beautiful Child, but that was it, really.. Besides, we heard the same ol' same ol'.. She regularly played Say You Will and Goodbye Baby from SYW and the the classics (sometimes Destiny Rules). I keep thinking Thrown Down or Everybody Finds Out could've kicked some butt live.. Lindsey, on the other hand, played more new songs and generally gave more of himself at the gigs, as many has pointed out.. No wonder he steals the show..

I think it falls back to something Lindsey has always mildly critizised her for, her strong conservative point of view.. I mean, come on...! She keeps hangin' around the same people. Sheryl Crow, Don Henley and Tom Petty, and each time she does so she's using the power of nostalgia. You don't see Lindsey doing that, he makes appearences on albums, including Tom Pettys, but he doesn't abuse it in the same. He tries, as much as he can, to tread new ground..

chiliD

03-27-2006, 05:13 PM

He tries, as much as he can, to tread new ground..

"tread new ground"?? He hasn't since 1979. He's just re-tread that "new ground" over & over, ever since.

The Nisse

03-27-2006, 05:27 PM

"tread new ground"?? He hasn't since 1979. He's just re-tread that "new ground" over & over, ever since.

As much as he can....as much as he can. :-) It's a tough thing to do..

But yeah, I think he's done a decent job of it, especially when comparing him to Stevie.. If you listen to technical details going on in the tracks, I hear stuff that I don't hear anywhere else. He's use of manipulated vocals for instance. And that's released after 1979..

chiliD

03-27-2006, 05:39 PM

As much as he can....as much as he can. :-) It's a tough thing to do..

But yeah, I think he's done a decent job of it, especially when comparing him to Stevie.. If you listen to technical details going on in the tracks, I hear stuff that I don't hear anywhere else. He's use of manipulated vocals for instance. And that's released after 1979..

Right...he used manipulated voices on Tusk (in 1979)...and he's used them on every album since.

The Beatles used manipulated voices in 1966; wanna talk "new ground" still? :)

jbrownsjr

03-27-2006, 08:37 PM

His ex-wife's playing is equally tasteful. Can I get an AMEN from Mary Anne & Homer & jbrownsjr? :thumbsup:

it's tasteful, but she should break out the solo's more

ok ok ok AMEN

jbrownsjr

03-27-2006, 08:40 PM

Hallelujah, sista!

From a musican standpoint, it's pretty amazing that here you had this husband & wife, both blues & rock musicians, & their styles are so beautifully complementary & both so "tasteful" as MacDougall says that you can't help thinking they both had enormous influence on each other in terms of style & approach.

It really worked out luckily for both of them in terms of their development. What a happy, fortunate set of circumstances! I feel more than certain that John played a big role in Christine's development as a rhythm keyboard player of a very specific type, & that Chris played a big role (perhaps not as big?) in John's developing style as a bassist. The source of this two-way influence would have been all those weeks, months & ultimately years that they spent at home or in studios & rehearsal rooms playing together, following each other, listening to each other, mimicking each other musically, learning to play in each other's pocket. You add Mick into the mix--with his special timekeeping style--& you really get a heady brew rhythm section for Fleetwood Mac all those years, the kind of rhythm section that was singled out for its excellence by countless critics & musicians, even to this day. (In 29 or 30 years of reading concert reviews of Fleetwood Mac, I can't remember even once reading a critic say that the rhythm section was anything less than first-rate powerhouse solid.)

Fans talk about the luck of the combination of the 1977 five people in creating such potent chemistry, but I think the luck of the combination of the three Britishers was equally amazing, & the musical chemistry those three created as a rhythm section was just as potent, totally irrespective of Nicks & Buckingham, or of Green/Kirwan/Spencer before that.

It's so nice to know that someone else can see, hear, and observe the same details and nuances that you do.