Heroes question?

[macfan 57]

I've been playing Heroes Are Hard To Find quite a bit a last few days. I noticed in the liner notes, it says that Christine plays keyboards & Arp String Ensemble. Does anyone know what an Arp String Ensemble is? I assume since Christine plays it might be some sort of a keyboard or similar to a keyboard. Does anyone know anything about this? Also, does anyone knows which track or tracks might this be featured on, so I can listen for it?

[chiliD]

http://www.vintagesynth.org/arp/string.jpg

ARP was one of the two pioneering companies of synthesisers (the other being Moog). The String Ensemble was a specific type of synthesiser that, as its name implied, emulated a string section.

On Heroes..., the best example of the sound of one is on the opening section of "Bermuda Triangle"...first is the congas, the acoustic guitar, then Christine comes in with the ARP SE.

Live, she only played it on "Sunny Side Of Heaven"...when they toured in 1974, the ARP was played by either Bobby Hunt or Doug Graves (there's an ARP SE on top of Graves' Hammond B-3 organ in the Don Kirshner's Rock Concert video from that era)

[macfan 57]

Yeah, I hear it now. I can hear it on the Sausalito CD, too. When Bob introduces Bobby Hunt, he mentions that he is playing Hammond, Clavinet & Arp Synthesiser. Thanks for the picture, too.:)

Unfortunately, I've never heard Sunny Side of Heaven live.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by macfan 57
Unfortunately, I've never heard Sunny Side of Heaven live.

Check around the tape/CD trading sites...they played it quite a few times in 1976 & early 1977.

The concert they filmed at UC Santa Barbara for the Rosebud promo film, they OPENED with it. Later in the tour, it was the final encore song.

[macfan 57]

I thought that they played "Sunny Side Of Heaven" live during the Bob Welch years. I didn't know that they played it during the early Buckingham/Nicks years also. Thanks for the tip. I'll start looking.:)

[chiliD]

It is an understatement that it was a surprise to hear at that UCSB show. I'd never heard them play it prior to that. (at that time, I think that was about the 5th or 6th time I'd seen them)

The two times I saw them with Welch, they didn't play it. "Station Man" & "Jewel-Eyed Judy" were the only two Kirwan songs they DID play.

[EricBliss12345]

Isn't the ARP string ensemble cool? :D

It has such a foreboding sound to it. The Solina string ensemble was a cool keyboard too, less foreboding, more "icy" for lack of a better term. I wish Chris had used the mellotron more like she did on "Night Watch" and "The Ghost." I always thought the studio version of Sunny Side would have been that much more enjoyable wrapped in a blanket of gorgeous mellotron strings.

I didnt' know they kept Sunny Side that long either. It would be interesting to hear some shows from the white album and Rumours tours, just to hear how the B/N lineup did those old tunes. I downloaded a version of Lindsey singing "Hypnotised" and it doesn't sound right, but it's still cool to hear. :)

[chiliD]

The PRE-1975 tunes played with Lindsey & Stevie:

From Peter Green:
Oh Well
Green Manalishi
Rattlesnake Shake (if they were an opening act, they'd play this as the last song of the set. If they were headliners, they'd end with "Blue Letter" and play "Hypnotized" as an encore instead
Jumping At Shadows (well, Duster Bennett actually, but it was a regular part of Fleetwood Mac's set until early 1976...Peter sang it, but after he left, Christine took over on vocals)

From Danny Kirwan:
Station Man
Sunny Side Of Heaven
Tell Me All The Things You Do
*Child Of Mine

From Bob Welch:
Hypnotized
Sentimental Lady
*Angel

Christine still did:
Get Like You Used To Be
Why
Spare Me A Little Of Your Love
Believe Me
Homeward Bound

*=Unconfirmed, but extremely reliable sources tell me that Stevie sang these in early 1975 at a few shows

[macfan 57]

Yeah, I like that Arp synthesiser. I always liked it. I just didn't know that what it was. It's funny, but I remember reading an interview with Christine where she said she didn't like synthesisers. She liked the more "real" keyboards like piano & organ. It sounds like she used synthesisers quite a bit.

I agree about Lindsey doing Hypnotized. I like his version, but I don't think it's nearly as good as the live Bob Welch versions.

[macfan 57]

That's an interesting list, ChiliD. I've heard most of those. I'll soon hear Sunny Side of Heaven & Jumping at Shadows, since someone here on the Ledge is helping me out with those two. I know Rick Vito did "Rattlesnake Shake" during the Tango tour, but I had no idea that the Buckingham/Nicks line-up also did it. Same thing with Sentimental Lady and I didn't know Chris did Homeward Bound during this time. It's interesting if Stevie did Child of Mine & Angel. I've never seen any of these songs listed on any bootlegs from this period.

Do you know if they changed their set lists from show to show, unlike now where it's the same thing every night?

[wetcamelfood]

Yeah, I've often wondered if the mellotron at the end of "Why" may be a reason people love "Why" so much and never really thought about it being the reason they loved it, they just knew it was a sound they liked but never put 2 and 2 together? Just a theory. :)

Hey, Stevie singing Welch's "Angel", that's cool. Now, if we can just get Welch to do Stevie's "Angel" and so on (as I'm sure we've discussed before, i.e. Welch doing the "Coming home" on "Mr. Wonderful" etc.)... :)

John

[EricBliss12345]

Yeah, I've often wondered if the mellotron at the end of "Why" may be a reason people love "Why" so much and never really thought about it being the reason they loved it

That's a real string section bud. :) Throw in your copy of In The Court Of The Crimson King and listen to the title track, then put Why on and you'll see the difference.

The mellotron is a beautiful instrument though and I wish Christine had used it more for chordal stuff like she did on Night Watch.

Yeah, I like that Arp synthesiser. I always liked it. I just didn't know that what it was. It's funny, but I remember reading an interview with Christine where she said she didn't like synthesisers. She liked the more "real" keyboards like piano & organ. It sounds like she used synthesisers quite a bit.

Don't get the string ensemble confused with the monophonic Pro Soloist and 2600 Modular models, which are synthesisers that ARP made. Tony Banks used these a lot on the early Genesis stuff. They're more along the lines of a Minimoog than the String Ensemble. The string ensemble you could play like a real keyboard, but the synthesisers are only monophonic (can only play one note at a time) and more for lead lines, synth bass, and sound effects a la Rick Wakeman or Kieth Emerson. I rarely if ever hear Christine play an actual synthesiser on the older recordings. The only times I've ever heard her use one are on Oh Daddy and Crystal, and neither of which are stellar uses of the intrument. There's one way in the background on the end of Over And Over but it's more a one-note texture kind of synth thing. Christine is definately more in her element on acoustic and electric pianos and hammond organ.

[ShamHy89]

I was reading this and suddenly got a huge urge to hear this stuff you listed live...do you know of any good sites?

By the way...what was used for the background of "Keep On Going"? And wouldnt that be awesome with a full string ensemble live?;)

Just my thoughts for the day...Shamus:)

[chiliD]

"Keep On Going" actually had a full string section...live people playing violins, violas, cellos, double basses, etc.

[EricBliss12345]

That's such a cool string arrangement on that song too. Why didn't they ever use strings or horns later on? I thought they sounded cool on that mid-period stuff. I especially love the horns on She's Changing Me. It makes the song THAT much cornier. Good ****. :)

Don Kirshner's Rock Concert video from that era)

Where do I get one of those?

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
That's a real string section bud. Throw in your copy of In The Court Of The Crimson King and listen to the title track, then put Why on and you'll see the difference.

Oops, yeah you're right, haven't heard the classic Crimson platter in a while though I'm sure that's accurate. Clifford Davis did like his "real strings" back then instead. I guess I just assumed it wasn't the real stuff as I'm sure I've read somewhere that FM used a mellotron on something from the 71-74 time period though I can't think what now, any ideas anyone?

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
Where do I get one of those?

Here:

http://www.fattvideos.com/video/1917/FLEETWOOD_MAC_TV_COMPILATION_1974_1980_inc_Don_Kirshner_s_Rock_Concert_Midnight_Special_x_2_Rock_Ste ady_20_20_PM_Magazine_

Hope that helps and thanks for the heads up. :)

John

[EricBliss12345]

Old FM tracks with the 'tron:

The Ghost - it's what plays the flute-but-not-quite lines

Sunny Side Of Heaven - I can hear some mellotron strings towards the end, but it's buried so badly in the mix that you can barely hear it. Shame. :distress:

2nd track on Penguin - Title escapes me, it's the only one I really skip. :laugh: This also does the flutey sounding stuff in the background

Night Watch - The atmospheric, eerie string stuff predominantly for chords on the chorus and those single-note string lines during the long middle section. In my opinion it's what makes the song, even though it's already a great song to begin with. Night Watch is really suited for a mellotron part.

I can't recall hearing it on any of the other Welch stuff, and believe me I would have noticed because I'm a mellotron nut. :D I really think they should have used it more, but to be honest it doesn't seem like an instrument Chris would like. She doesn't really seem like she knew how to play it. The Ghost is a great song but her mellotron part on it is nothing short of agitating. It's way too busy. The mellotron isn't an instrument you can be "busy" with. I'm not even so sure she played it on Night Watch, which credits the involvement of a 2nd keyboardist. If she did she handled it much better that time.

But really they should have used it more. Every time I hear the song Future Games, whenever it gets to the part in the buildup during the end where the bass just really slams in I always want to hear that mellotron choir just come blasting through the speakers. It would have helped Woman Of A Thousand Years immensely too. I also crave to hear the 'tron strings on the gorgeous Caught In The Rain and Emerald Eyes too.

Maybe someday after I get my EMU Vintage keys I'll record the mac tunes on my 4-track and pipe in the mellotron parts myself! :laugh:

Thanks for the link BTW.

[wetcamelfood]

You're welcome (for the link), hope you get it OK. :)

Thanks for the tron tunes list. DOH! Welch did mention "The ghost" as having the tron at the Q & A (I think the first one).

Yeah, "Bright fire" is the 2nd tune on "Penguin" ah, I see what you mean now (listening to it at this moment). :)

John