BTM or Time?

[xdreamsunwindx]

I'm trying to expand my Mac collection/tastes to more eras of the group and whatnot. My question is, what would be a better choice for my situation, Behind the Mask or Time? I'm kinda confused on what one, lol. I know a few songs from BTM, and I like them, but Time was the main reason I asked. Since Christine is on Time I guess I'll at least have those to listen to, but what about Beka Bramlet and Billy Brunette's songs? Thanks :wavey:

[wetcamelfood]

Well, you're probably sick of hearing this from people like me but the best way to handle it is just to listen to ANY non BN era Mac album by making sure that you're not in a frame of mind of expecting it to sound like the BN era stuff. That way, if it does sound similar to BN era stuff to you, then great, because you know you like "that sound" anyways (like you were saying about how you'll probably feel about Christine's stuff on BTM & Time etc.) and if you find it differrent than BN era Mac, then that's OK too, because you were prepared for it. :)

Just like any artists music that you like, I'm sure there's many artists you like that "don't sound like FM" right? Well, same deal here, you could almost pretend it's a different band's CD you're listening to. :)

I could go on and on but thinking back to my younger more foolish days of not listening to non BN era Mac (because I expected non BN era Mac to sound like BN era Mac), that's something I wish I could've done over again if I could go back in time as THAT is how I would've approached it. I sure would've had a few more years of ALL Mac era fandom behind me than what I do, that's for sure. :)

John

[macfan 57]

I would get both BTM & Time. I think Christine & Billy really make BTM. I love everything of theirs on the album. As for Time, Christine's songs are terrific, as always. Once you listen to them, you'll know why she's no longer in the band. "All Over Again" is really her goodbye to Fleetwood Mac. When I first listened to Time, I didn't like Bekka's songs at all. But, not anymore. I love all three of her songs here. And, I also like her background vocals on other songs. I'd take Bekka's Time songs easily over Stevie's Tango & BTM songs any day. But, that's probably a minority opinion.:)

[chiliD]

Originally posted by macfan 57
When I first listened to Time, I didn't like Bekka's songs at all. But, not anymore. I love all three of her songs here. And, I also like her background vocals on other songs. I'd take Bekka's Time songs easily over Stevie's Tango & BTM songs any day. But, that's probably a minority opinion.:)


Another Time (and Bekka) convert. {beams proudly!} :D

SEE?!?! Just gotta give the album a chance, folks!:nod:

[xdreamsunwindx]

Thanks for the advice, you all! I'm gonna pick up BTM first next week.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by xdreamsunwindx
Thanks for the advice, you all! I'm gonna pick up BTM first next week.

Looking forward to hearing your comments here then. :)

John

[Cristian]

Let's see... I don't hate Bekka's songs but I wouldn't go that far to say that they are better than Stevie's songs on Behind The Mask, because I think that at least three of them are pretty good. It's not easy to match them because Stevie is mainly a songwriter and Bekka is a singer, with a very different vocal range and, dare I say, with a better voice at the time. Unlike the Fleetwood Mac album, where there wasn't an effort to "introduce" the new singer to the listener (giving her more prominent background vocals), Time has Bekka all around, and her background vocals are in most cases excellent.

Christine's songs on Time are reflective, inspiring and interesting. "All Over Again" could be considered as one of the best things she's ever written; "Hollywood (Some Other Kind Of Town)" and "Nights In Estoril" are nice pop tunes, and I especially love "Sooner Or Later", too. I still prefer her songs from Behind The Mask, though. The title track, "Save Me" and "Skies The Limit" are little masterpieces of pop. Billy also shines more in BTM, because he has "In The Back Of My Mind", "Do You Know" and "Hard Feelings", three fantastic songs; and in Time he only gets one real song, the opener "Talkin' To My Heart" (I think "I Got It In For You" is mere filler). Bekka vs. Stevie... no, not fair. "Winds Of Change" is a nice song, "Dreamin' The Dream", although not lirically great, is good too, and "Nothing Without You" can come along nicely in the album. Mason didn't quite fit with the rest of the band but his "Blow By Blow" is a great rocker and Bekka shines there too. But to me Rick Vito had that place... Too bad he decided to leave.

I still can't make up my mind. I prefer Behind The Mask, I suppose, because it's a more cohesive album, rather than Time, which is kind of not connected, although it does have some good songs. Plus Behind The Mask does not feature Mick "singing", which is a bonus.

Behind The Mask, it is. :D


Song of the moment - Purple Dancer

[Johnny Stew]

Looks like you've already made up your mind, Kate, but I just thought I'd add that, yes, you should probably start with 'Behind The Mask.'

If you're mainly a fan of the Buckingham Nicks lineup, that's probably the one you'd respond to best.

But 'Time' is definitely very much worth owning, too.

They're all links in the chain! ;)

[Johnny Stew]

Hmm... Cristian's comments got me thinking what 'Time' would have been like if Rick Vito had stayed with the band.

No disrespect meant towards Dave Mason, as I seem to be one of the handful of Mac die-hards who actually enjoy his 'Time' contributions quite a lot....
but it definitely would have been interesting to see how much further Burnette and Vito could have gone with the chemistry they had developed together.

[chiliD]

With the guitar players that Mick has worked with, why did he feel he was at "last resort" and hire Dave Mason (other than Dave just hounded him until he got hired)?

Had to have asked:
Todd Sharp
Walter Egan
Billy Thorpe
Steve Ross

They're all songwriters as well as lead guitarists

[wetcamelfood]

Yeah, that sure would've been interesting if FM continued with Billy & RV, BUT it really only would've "gone anywhere" if Billy & Rick were "allowed to be themselves" (musically speaking) in FM and I get the feeling they weren't allowed to do that (at least by listening to (or in my case reading about) what was actually released and what wasn't) and I'm guessing the "creative/musical differences" reason, though overused etc. is at least partly applicable to why (at least RV) left though I guess we'll never really know the whole truth behind that since there must be much more to it than that if even Rick won't (can't?) talk about it as we know how nice and willing he is to communicate with fans etc.) unlike others.

With this being the case, I think we would've just gotten "Behind the mask 2" from the "powers that be" (which I'd enjoy I'm sure but I don't think Mick's "holding back" tendencies are what Peter Green would've liked (if Mick was continuing the "spirit of FM" that he probably thinks he is/was). JMHO though. :)

John

[The Tower]

Time was soooo not a good idea.


At least Behind the Mask had:

Skies the Limit (KILLER Christine)
The Second Time (crying Stevie)
In The Back of My Mind (reverence...... "Rememberrrrrrrrrrrrrr", by Stevie- that voice is THAT VOICE {even though she wasKlonopin'd out}).

HOLY ****!!!! "Hard Feelings" is a GREAT song!! Most of Burnette's stuff was WAY better than anything Lindsey had to offer during the 80's......

Out of the Cradle, however, is a completely different story..... "Surrender the Rain" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chiliD]

Originally posted by The Tower
Time was soooo not a good idea.

Sure, it was GOOD to still have Fleetwood Mac as a working entity, but I think the album didn't come out as good as it could have.

One thing that would've improved the album: Only had the Fleetwood Mac that had been on the road for 18 months prior to its release appear on the album...which would've had a couple more Billy Burnette tunes and a couple more Dave Mason tunes. The band that people heard on the album, would've been the band they had seen in concert.

Plus, it wasn't a good idea to END the tour BEFORE the album was released...then not tour to support the album.

[macfan 57]

But, there was no publicity or promotion for Time at all. I didn't even know that there was a Time album until I read something about it around the time of The Dance. Then when I tried to find the CD, I couldn't find a copy anywhere. It wasn't until I got online that I finally was able to buy a copy from Amazon. Time was actually the first thing that I ever bought online 4 years ago.

[wetcamelfood]

Tower, you're certainly entitled to your opinion of "Time" and I respect it :) but from what you say, it seems like you are proving the point that many of us that like these recordings suspect many that don't like "Time" do, which is not liking "Time" because it doesn't have SN & LB on it (OK, LB is on "Nothing without you" but in a very miniscule way).

Who knows, maybe not but if you just listen to "Time" as if you would any other band whos music you haven't heard before to see if you'd like it then you may like it better than it sounds like you do now. As I say though, just an idea. :)

I know it can be tough for some to NOT COMPARE "Time" to BN stuff but assuming you like at least one non Mac related song then the recordings on "Time" should get the same "chance" that those non Mac related bands/artists that you also like do.

Again, I'm not saying you'll "all of the sudden love it", you probably will still dislike it and if you do after that point then fair enough, but as I say, it's just an idea to help you feel happier about an album that you own already so that someday you'd get some more use out of it than it sounds like you do at the moment (JMHO). :)

John

[David]

Originally posted by xdreamsunwindx
I'm trying to expand my Mac collection/tastes to more eras of the group and whatnot. My question is, what would be a better choice for my situation, Behind the Mask or Time? I can't really guide you in one direction or the other because I don't know anything about you or your tastes & inclinations, but I enjoy "Time" a lot more (it's still not a great album, though). Thanks to Richard Dashut, "Time" has clear delineation between instruments & vocals & the mix is sharper & punchier; it's a much better-sounding album than "Mask." Bekka's an R&B belter. If that's your thing, you might like her. Dave Mason is a nonentity on the album. Billy is his typical low-key charming self. He's got a wacky self-depreciatory quality in his vocals & songwriting that are ingratiating if slightly dull. (At times, he seems to disappear inside the band for want of ego & assertiveness.)

The "Mask" material is some of it tuneful & interesting ("Skies the Limit," "When It Comes to Love"), but only Vito's guitar playing & Christine's electric piano really come alive. Many of the tracks just seem ambivalent or uncommitted, & the Ladanyi/Fleetwood Mac production is some of the sludgiest in Mac history.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
Thanks to Richard Dashut, "Time" has clear delineation between instruments & vocals & the mix is sharper & punchier; it's a much better-sounding album than "Mask."

Many of the tracks (on 'Behind The Mask') just seem ambivalent or uncommitted, & the Ladanyi/Fleetwood Mac production is some of the sludgiest in Mac history. I couldn't agree more. :nod:

The production on 'Behind The Mask' is the only thing I've ever truly disliked about the album.
I realize that they were going for something more rock than pop, but in the process, the music sounds muddied.
It's the same problem that plagues Stevie's 'Street Angel.'

Dashut's production shines on 'Time.'

If and when Rhino ever gets around to remastering 'Mask,' it would be nice if someone would "brighten" the mix a bit... but then some fans might be upset by that bit of revisionistic history!

Completely un-related... does anyone have any clue how it came about that Patrick Leonard (most noted for his work with Madonna) produced "Love Shines" and "Heart Of Stone" for the boxed-set?

Based on those two songs, his production touches seem to be better suited to Fleetwood Mac's sound than Ladanyi's was (although the latter did do a bang-up job with "As Long As You Follow").

I've often wondered if Fleetwood Mac intended to cut an album with Leonard, and it just didn't happen... or if it was always meant as a one-off thing.

[macfan 57]

Patrick Leonard worked with Madonna? I had no idea. I agree about "Love Shines" & "Heart of Stone". I think they're fantastic songs. I like Behind the Mask, but those 2 songs are far better than anything on Behind the Mask. I have a Goldmine Magazine interview with Christine. She raved about Patrick Leonard. She said she thought he had gotten into "Fleetwood Mac's brain", that he understood their sound. She also said that she hoped they would work together again. But, it never happened.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Completely un-related... does anyone have any clue how it came about that Patrick Leonard (most noted for his work with Madonna) produced "Love Shines" and "Heart Of Stone" for the boxed-set?

Based on those two songs, his production touches seem to be better suited to Fleetwood Mac's sound than Ladanyi's was (although the latter did do a bang-up job with "As Long As You Follow").

I've often wondered if Fleetwood Mac intended to cut an album with Leonard, and it just didn't happen... or if it was always meant as a one-off thing.

Good point Johnny, I'd like to find this out too. If this was the case, then by the same token I wonder if we should assume there may be Mac recordings lying around somewhere that were produced by Nile Rogers and that Power Station dude circa 1987 too? :)

John

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by macfan 57
Patrick Leonard worked with Madonna? I had no idea.He sure did. In fact, in my opinion, most of the songs they did together, are among her best.
"Like A Prayer," "I'll Remember," "Cherish," "Live To Tell," "Frozen," "La Isla Bonita," "Oh Father"... among several others.

That Goldmine article you mentioned... I've heard about that, but I've never read it.
I need to check the Blue Letter Archives here, to see if I can find it. :)

(By the way, it's cool to know that Christine and I agree that Patrick Leonard was a good fit for The Mac.) :D

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Good point Johnny, I'd like to find this out too. If this was the case, then by the same token I wonder if we should assume there may be Mac recordings lying around somewhere that were produced by Nile Rogers and that Power Station dude circa 1987 too? :)That's definitely a good question.

And I imagine that it's not too far out of the realm of possibility that some elements... however minor... of whatever they may have worked on in their short time with the band, may have even ended up in finished songs that we already have.

[macfan 57]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
He sure did. In fact, in my opinion, most of the songs they did together, are among her best.
"Like A Prayer," "I'll Remember," "Cherish," "Live To Tell," "Frozen," "La Isla Bonita," "Oh Father"... among several others.

That Goldmine article you mentioned... I've heard about that, but I've never read it.
I need to check the Blue Letter Archives here, to see if I can find it. :)

(By the way, it's cool to know that Christine and I agree that Patrick Leonard was a good fit for The Mac.) :D

Chris mentioned in this interview that she had never met Patrick Leonard before, but that he had done some fantastic work with other people. She never mentioned who those other people were, but maybe she was referring to Madonna. Maybe, Christine McVie actually likes some of Madonna's work.:)

By the way, that Goldmine interview was the best Christine McVie interview that I've ever seen. The reporter asked some terrific questions, not the same old boring stuff that she usually got asked about. There's also an excellent interview with Mick in the same magazine.