But WHY do you not like it? [Archive]

Johnny Stew

08-13-2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by sodascouts
Why don't I like WISYA? It's repetitive, pointless, and it drags. I mean, when I transcribed those lyrics for my site, I was just grimacing.Forgive me for chiming in once again about "When I See You Again," but this is one song that I'll "defend" until I'm blue in the face, simply because I love it that much. :)

Stevie is using a repetitive phrase ("what's the matter, baby") in much the same way that T.S. Eliot did in his 'The Hollow Men'....

"This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper."

The repetition of the phrase is meant to pull the listener/reader in, and to further drive home the bleak mood of the piece. Its use is entirely purposeful here, and not a mere space filler (which can't be said of many songs).

In "When I See You Again," her (former) lover is posing a question, which Stevie then repeats until she's asking it of herself.

At any rate... I know I'm not really going to change anyone's opinion of the song. If you hate it now, you probably always will.
I just think the reasons for its bad reputation, are a little unfair. :)

Sorcerer386

08-13-2003, 11:34 PM

I have to be in the right kind of mood for WISYA. If I've had a bad day, it'll grate on my nerves. Not because of "What's the matter baby," that's actually my favorite part (probably because everyone else hates it). I just really don't like how Stevie presents the song. Her voice is a bit too wistful. Plus, the song I think needed more parts to it for the end. Instead you get Lindsey singing a few lines and the music just goes on and on.

As for Red Rover, I think it's actually beginning to get it's itch on me. But still a big problem with the song is, as with many songs on SYW, I can't understand what the Hell Lindsey is saying. And that bothers me since I'm a lyrics person as well as a sing-a-long person, so if I can't hear the words I can't learn the words and therefore I cannot sing along. Worse for me is Murrow and Come, the former due to it's even worse vocal clarity, and the latter due to Lindsey annoying screeching on the chorus. Too much head voice, and too much guitar. However, Come in concert was much better.

DrummerDeanna

08-13-2003, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Sorcerer386

As for Red Rover, I think it's actually beginning to get it's itch on me. But still a big problem with the song is, as with many songs on SYW, I can't understand what the Hell Lindsey is saying. And that bothers me since I'm a lyrics person as well as a sing-a-long person, so if I can't hear the words I can't learn the words and therefore I cannot sing along. Worse for me is Murrow and Come, the former due to it's even worse vocal clarity, and the latter due to Lindsey annoying screeching on the chorus. Too much head voice, and too much guitar. However, Come in concert was much better.

These are my exact reason for not liking Murrow and Red Rover, however I do like Come because I can understand (for the most part) what he's saying and I actually find it fun to sing along to...the other two, however, I just can't get a grasp on them I don't hate them at all...they are just not my favorites...

nae

08-14-2003, 08:02 AM

I really LIKE both of these songs. Red Rover is one of my fav. Lindsey songs.

:nod: Nae

dissention

08-14-2003, 08:54 AM

I posted why I don't like WISYA and WTTR...S in another thread, but I'll post it hear for your sake, Christy :)

There are many reasons why I, and I'm sure many others, don't like WISYA. I know that Stevie writes in an honest, truthful way and that she allows herself to show her true colors and vulnerability, but it doesn't necessarily mask a bad song.

The vocals are very poor. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: it's as if Stevie forgot how to sing when they recorded this. Her vocals are lousy. They're whiny, sharp, and too scratchy. The only good vocal comes from Lindsey.

The lyrics are lazy and among the worst she's ever written (and I don't think she has written many bad songs). I think this is the worst part of the song:

"So she walks slowly
down the hall
There are many doors
in the hallway
And she stares at the stairs
Ooh there are many things
to stare at these days"

The repetition of "Whassamattababay" grates on the nerves. Any song that just repeats itself over and over, regardless if it's a Stevie/Mac song, is obnoxious. The fact that she starts off singing it and then whispering it and then screeching it and then caterwauling it doesn't help.

I love Stevie and understand all of her lyrics like the rest of y'all. However, for people who are not fans that hear a song like WISYA, it won't make them a fan and I think the lyrics are a big part in that. WISYA and WTTR...S would be incomprehensible to someone who isn't a fanatic like us on the board. Frontline, baby? It's not home and it's not Tara? Deja vu? Upstairs where the stars laugh and shine? They'd be scratching their heads in bewilderment, asking how all this mess ties together. I expect most people would laugh hysterically at the "Whassamattababays" and the staring at stairs in WISYA. The song just doesn't come together.

Just my opinion though!

CarneVaca

08-14-2003, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I just think the reasons for its bad reputation, are a little unfair. :)

With all due respect, that's just silly. If you don't like it because it sucks, then you don't like it. What's unfair about that? I don't like tripe (the kind you eat... and other kinds as well, come to think of it). Is that unfair?

You can defend it till you're blue in the face but I doubt you'll ever change anybody's mind. This is among the worst pieces of drivel to ever come out of Ms. Nicks' lips and pen. The only redeeming thing about it is the guitar work, especially the Spanish guitar at the end.

dissention

08-14-2003, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Stevie is using a repetitive phrase ("what's the matter, baby") in much the same way that T.S. Eliot did in his 'The Hollow Men'....

"This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper."

The repetition of the phrase is meant to pull the listener/reader in, and to further drive home the bleak mood of the piece. Its use is entirely purposeful here, and not a mere space filler (which can't be said of many songs).

I'm sorry, but you cannot compare The Hollow Men to WISYA. Hollow Men was written in a completely different way than WISYA and there is no comparing drivel to a masterpiece. The Hollow Men builds up to the end where he repeats "this is the way the world ends..." Yes, there is a reason that it is repeated three times, but it's for completely different reasons than WISYA. It isn't necessarily to drive home the bleak mood, but to confirm it. It gets progressively bleak as the it goes on until it explodes. The stanza you quoted doesn't drive home anything; it confirms what we already were told AT THE END of the piece.

WISYA doesn't build up to much of anything, it's just dark and bleak from the start and it doesn't really intensify (like The Hollow Men) at all and no point is ever driven home. Where the repetition in Hollow Men was sparse and very hard-hitting, "Whassamattababay" isn't. It grates on the nerves and makes one not want to listen to the whole thing. They just want to press skip and get to "Isn't It Midnight."

Jason T.

08-14-2003, 09:21 AM

"Red Rover" would be my favorite off of Say You Will if it wasn't for Stevie's "Silver Girl." And "When I See You Again" would be my favorite off of Tango In the Night if it wasn't "Welcome To the Room...Sara." I guess I've never been one of popular judgement.

sulamith

08-14-2003, 09:24 AM

If you want to attack Stevie for the repetiveness of WISYA, you gotta give Lindsey the same for I Must Go.

You could say that's the worst piece of drivel to ever come out of Lindsey. He says "I must go" about about 147 times.

Ok, Linds, I get it. You gotta go. Go already. He was making a point about his life at the time. Even though it's not my favorite thing to listen to, I can appreciate it that was something he needed to express. You can't bash an artist for doing what true artists do, which is emote about their experiences.

In WISYA, Stevie is doing the same thing. It's not my favorite song, but hearing her sounding like that, so broken, so fragile, her voice so ravaged.......... it does make me want to cry and give her a hug. It's an expression of all her hurt and pain at the time. It's not supposed to be pretty to listen to.

That's what I love about them both. You get all the emotions, all the parts of their lives, and it's not always pretty.

-Sharon

Mad4stevie

08-14-2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Sorcerer386

As for Red Rover, I think it's actually beginning to get it's itch on me. But still a big problem with the song is, as with many songs on SYW, I can't understand what the Hell Lindsey is saying. And that bothers me since I'm a lyrics person as well as a sing-a-long person, so if I can't hear the words I can't learn the words and therefore I cannot sing along. Worse for me is Murrow and Come, the former due to it's even worse vocal clarity, and the latter due to Lindsey annoying screeching on the chorus. Too much head voice, and too much guitar. However, Come in concert was much better.

I totally agree :nod:

I hated Murrow, Red Rover and Come from the outset. However, Murrow started growing on me, so I stopped skipping that song. And then I saw LB do Come in concert, and I was just blown away. So now I listen to that song, too (at least until the end when he is too over the top with the guitar).

Red Rover is a different story. I really like the music, but I can't understand LB and even when I read the words, I don't get it. I don't like the incessant repeated (Red rover, red rover, we've come, we've come to take you over - BLECH!!!).

ericktul

08-14-2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Mad4stevie
Red Rover is a different story. I really like the music, but I can't understand LB and even when I read the words, I don't get it. I don't like the incessant repeated (Red rover, red rover, we've come, we've come to take you over - BLECH!!!).

I'm starting to come around on Red Rover. Still, I can't listen to the whole thing at once. It's like getting into a pool when the water is chilly. A little bit at a time...

Murrow, on the other hand, I have no preference one way or the other. I usually don't skip it, but it does absolutely nothing for me.

CarneVaca

08-14-2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by sulamith
If you want to attack Stevie for the repetiveness of WISYA, you gotta give Lindsey the same for I Must Go.

No one's attacking anybody. When I See You Again comes up repeatedly as one of the least liked songs for a good reason. It plain and simple sucks. Stevie couldn't sing. The lyrics were awful. Anybody can find meaning in any string of words put together, so it doesn't surprise me that a handful of people think the song is wonderful. Good for them, but it doesn't change the fact she couldn't sing and she couldn't really write at that point. Hey, that's OK, she had already proven herself, and she got much better later. Anyone can have a nadir.

As for I must go, sure it's repetitious but I, for one, have not knocked repetition. I Must Go is infectious; it's about the propulsive rhythm. There's lots of motion in that song. To me, the whole Go Insane album was always an amazing sonic experience. If you get hung up on the lyrics in that album, you're not getting it.

dissention

08-14-2003, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
No one's attacking anybody. When I See You Again comes up repeatedly as one of the least liked songs for a good reason. It plain and simple sucks. Stevie couldn't sing. The lyrics were awful. Anybody can find meaning in any string of words put together, so it doesn't surprise me that a handful of people think the song is wonderful. Good for them, but it doesn't change the fact she couldn't sing and she couldn't really write at that point. Hey, that's OK, she had already proven herself, and she got much better later. Anyone can have a nadir.

Exactly. :D

sulamith

08-14-2003, 10:27 AM

Sure, calling something "the worst piece of drivel to come from Stevie Nicks' lips and pen" isn't attacking.

That's objectivity at it's finest. Silly me.

I am more of a lyrics person, that doesn't mean I don't "get" work Go Insane.

You have to remember that everyone interprets this stuff differently, and it doesn't make anybody right or wrong.

I could say that if you can't see past the surface in a song like WISYA, then you obviously don't get it, but then I would be remiss, since that is merely my opinion.

It takes all types.

-Sharon

dissention

08-14-2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by sulamith
I could say that if you can't see past the surface in a song like WISYA, then you obviously don't get it, but then I would be remiss, since that is merely my opinion.

It takes all types.

-Sharon

You can see under the surface and understand what she's getting at, but that doesn't mean that it makes the song good. It's still a terrible song, even when you understand it. It's all in the way it's presented and, in this case, it's presented pretty badly.

CarneVaca

08-14-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by sulamith
Sure, calling something "the worst piece of drivel to come from Stevie Nicks' lips and pen" isn't attacking.

It's a strongly worded opinion. God knows I've read plenty of strongly worded opinions from you and didn't take you to task. Opinions are opinions.

That's objectivity at it's finest. Silly me.

Silly you? Perhaps. "Objectivity" is your characterization, not mine.

I am more of a lyrics person, that doesn't mean I don't "get" work Go Insane.

If you're excusing the repetition in WISYA because of the repetition in I Must Go, you've definitely missed something.

You have to remember that everyone interprets this stuff differently, and it doesn't make anybody right or wrong.

If you can find an instance in which I claimed anyone was wrong, please refresh me. I even conceded that a few people my think this song is wonderful, and that's good for them.

I could say that if you can't see past the surface in a song like WISYA, then you obviously don't get it, but then I would be remiss, since that is merely my opinion.

I can see past the surface enough to realize there's some beautiful guitar work, and I've said as much. Go back and read it. The guitar work, however, cannot save this very bad song.

It takes all types.

It sure does.

sodascouts

08-14-2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by sulamith
If you want to attack Stevie for the repetiveness of WISYA, you gotta give Lindsey the same for I Must Go.

You could say that's the worst piece of drivel to ever come out of Lindsey. He says "I must go" about about 147 times.

36, actually. lol

I too don't "get" the genius of I Must Go, but since Christy specifically asked about WISYA, I addressed the repetitiveness in that one solely. As for IMG, I think when you have to ignore lyrics to enjoy a song something's missing. It's not just the lyrics but the melody that's relentlessly repetitive. It sounds more like a man caught in an endless loop of indecision than one who is breaking free.

RavenOfRhiannon

08-14-2003, 11:56 AM

I got your back, JohnnyStew.

I like WISYA as well.

Saying you don't like it because it sucks is actually a more valid opinion than saying she can't write or sing at this point in her career. If you don't like it because it sucks in your opinion, that's fine. Not everyone is going to like every single Mac song.

However, saying she couldn't write or sing is a different story. Vocally, take Seven Wonders, probably her strongest vocal on the album. Which leads me to believe she sang WISYA like that on purpose, and I think it fits the mood of the song.
Lyrically, it is a simple song. I like that too. It is very straight forward and does draw the listener in. You know from the very first line this is a song about a very difficult goodbye.

Randy

CarneVaca

08-14-2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by sodascouts
It sounds more like a man caught in an endless loop of indecision than one who is breaking free.

BINGO!!!

CarneVaca

08-14-2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by RavenOfRhiannon
Saying you don't like it because it sucks is actually a more valid opinion than saying she can't write or sing at this point in her career. If you don't like it because it sucks in your opinion, that's fine. Not everyone is going to like every single Mac song.

However, saying she couldn't write or sing is a different story.

Randy, do you like the song? You didn't even say that, so I wonder if you are arguing just for the sake of it. That's OK, I do that too.

However, reread what I quoted above. On the one hand you're saying it's OK for me to dislike the song because it sucks, but it's not OK for me to dislike it if I say she couldn't write or sing at that point? I don't know about you, but I see a mathematical truth there:

Couldn't write + couldn't sing = song sucks.

Pretty damn simple.

wondergirl9847

08-14-2003, 01:43 PM

Interesting reading!!

I didn't mean for everyone to "pick" on WISYA or Red Rover in particular, I just meant, whatever FM song you don't care for...tell us WHY. NTF is a song not many like as well as most LB songs on Mirage...so if you don't like THOSE songs, tell us why.

I'm not fond of the song Over and Over from Tusk...I don't HATE it, it's just a skipper for me...it's SOOOO slow and plodding. I do love the 1980 Live album version of it tho...LB's guitar is MASTERFUL!!

I cannot listen to Sugar Daddy...I've tried. I don't know WHAT it is really, it doesn't fit in with the rest of the White Album, IMO. It sounds, I dunno....silly to me. LOL

I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over who says a song sucks or not....lots of you hate Red Rover.....that song brings me to tears...so, I don't care who hates it, it moves me...and that's ALL that matters. :nod:

I only started this thread to get some sort of idea as to WHY we all disliked certain songs. :shrug:

dissention

08-14-2003, 01:44 PM

I think that, regardless if anyone chooses to admit it, that Stevie couldn't sing at all around that time and she couldn't write very well. All you have to do is listen to some bootlegs from the RAL tour and it'll be obvious that she couldn't sing, she could just scream and wail and babble incoherently. By a writing standpoint, she was just as terrible. The quality just was not there. You can't compare WISYA and WTTR...S quality-wise with songs like Gypsy, How Still My Love, or even I Can't Wait; their is no comparison, IMO. By this point in her career, she was just writing down stream-of-consciousness thoughts onto paper and using them for songs. If she was a good writer in that period, she wouldn't of had to use a Sandy Stewart song and she wouldn't have left her remaining songs so incoherent. For the average person, trying to decipher Edge of Seventeen would be easier than deciphering WTTR...S.

So, I wholeheartedly agree with Carne: at this point, she couldn't sing for beans and she couldn't write well.

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 01:47 PM

Lord knows I'm not trying to get into another Stevie vs. Lindsey argument here, but I just wanted to add a few additional comments.

CarneVaca... Nancy (sodascouts) made the comment that "I Must Go," "sounds more like a man caught in an endless loop of indecision than one who is breaking free," as part of her argument as to why she doesn't care for the song.
To which you whole-heartedly agreed (at least that's how I took your "BINGO" response)... implying that this is what makes the song so terrific.

So, once again, I don't understand why... when Lindsey has taken a certain step (an endlessly repeated phrase, in this case), it's EXACTLY the right thing for the song, and another facet of what makes it so great... but if Stevie also uses a repeated phrase, or a particular vocal style, it's somehow a cop-out on her part, and the resulting song is merely "drivel" and "tripe."

Can you at least understand how, as much as you, personally, can glean from a song such as "I Must Go," and as much as you find enjoyment from it... that's how much a song such as "When I See You Again" can be appreciated by, and moving to, someone else?

I'm also reminded of your arguments for "Family Man"... another song which a large amount of people often cite as "the worst" (though I myself happen to love the song).

I completely realize that you understand that some people do like "When I See You Again" (though I noted an implication... correct me if i'm wrong... that people are merely "excusing" it because it's Stevie), and you're absolutely, 100% allowed to have your opinion and to dislike the song... but to completely write it off (aside from Lindsey's contribution to the song), is... in my opinion... a bit short-sighted.

Hence my original comment that the song's bad repuation is rather unfair.

Again, I'm not saying everyone HAS to like the song, or that they SHOULD like it... I simply wanted to point out that all of the reasons people cite as examples of what a bad song it is, are exactly what I, and not just a few other people, think make it such an amazing song.
Perhaps even brilliant in its own right. :)

chiliD

08-14-2003, 01:56 PM

Jeeeeeeeez, even *I* like "When I See You Again"...

...DESPITE my
1) abhorance of the "whatsamattababies"
2) hatred of the tone of Stevie's voice
3) thinking it is NOT a good song and that it is not one of the upper eschelon (sp?) of Stevie's contributions...

...But...for some goddamned reason I like it. I don't know why. :shrug:

Maybe it all comes down to the contradiction of Stevie singing "WHEN I see you again" and Lindsey singing "IF I see you again"...which just said VOLUMES, especially in retrospect. And, Lindsey's guitar work. I do agree with Stevie's view at the time that it should've been the album closer.

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by dissention
I think that, regardless if anyone chooses to admit it, that Stevie couldn't sing at all around that time and she couldn't write very well.Oddly enough, this is my favorite period for Stevie's voice.
I will grant you that many of the live performances were less than stellar, but her voice on 'Rock A Little' and 'Tango' is absolutely amazing, to my ears.

I love that she could go from that hard-edged, tough rocker-chick voice, one minute ("I Can't Wait," "Seven Wonders"), to this fragile, raspy, Billie Holliday voice, the next.

I have missed that voice on every recording since.

Also, I think the lyrics to the songs from this time period are far more moving and substantive than her earlier songs (I will once again go on record as saying that I actually prefer "When I See You Again" to "Landslide")... even if, on the surface, they seem "out there."

I think that her earlier songs were perhaps just a little more universal, and therefore easier to understand and relate to.

But, as I've often noted, it's all a matter of personal preference. :)

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
Jeeeeeeeez, even *I* like "When I See You Again"...

...for some goddamned reason I like it. I don't know why. :shrug:'Cuz it's friggin' amazing, that's why! ;) :laugh:

wondergirl9847

08-14-2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
But, as I've often noted, it's all a matter of personal preference. :)

AMEN MY BRUTHA!! That's what it all amounts to!

Music is AMAZING, isn't it?! :nod::D

chiliD

08-14-2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
'Cuz it's friggin' amazing, that's why! ;) :laugh:

Nah...I think it is more like "I have to like at least ONE Stevie Nicks song on the album and since she didn't write "Seven Wonders" and I hate everything about "WTTR..S", I had to like WISYA by default. :laugh:

dissention

08-14-2003, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Also, I think the lyrics to the songs from this time period are far more moving and substantive than her earlier songs (I will once again go on record as saying that I actually prefer "When I See You Again" to "Landslide")... even if, on the surface, they seem "out there."

I think that her earlier songs were perhaps just a little more universal, and therefore easier to understand and relate to.

But, as I've often noted, it's all a matter of personal preference. :)

See, I always thought that the lyrics from the RAL songs were her most universal and "mainstream." I don't think that any of them make you think and reflect the way that songs like Sara, Gypsy, Gold Dust Woman, and Storms do. I mean, I just think that songs like I Can't Wait, The Nightmare, If I Were You, Imperial Hotel, and I Sing For the Things are pretty self-explanatory once you hear the lyrics, whereas when you hear Sara or Gold Dust Woman you actually have to *think* about what she's saying or at least ponder it for awhile. Her mid-eighties songs don't do it for me because they aren't as deep and edited very well. Some of them just make me laugh.

But, it is a matter of preference. :)

WednesdaysChild

08-14-2003, 02:08 PM

RE: the RAL songs...aren't most of them NOT written by her? Or they are co-written w/ someone else? That says a lot right there...

chiliD

08-14-2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by dissention
See, I always thought that the lyrics from the RAL songs were her most universal and "mainstream." I don't think that any of them make you think and reflect the way that songs like Sara, Gypsy, Gold Dust Woman, and Storms do. I mean, I just think that songs like I Can't Wait, The Nightmare, If I Were You, Imperial Hotel, and I Sing For the Things are pretty self-explanatory once you hear the lyrics, whereas when you hear Sara or Gold Dust Woman you actually have to *think* about what she's saying or at least ponder it for awhile. Her mid-eighties songs don't do it for me because they aren't as deep and edited very well. Some of them just make me laugh.

But, it is a matter of preference. :)

Maybe you just need to snort a mountain of cocaine before you listen to those albums to "get" them? :shrug: :laugh:

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
Nah...I think it is more like "I have to like at least ONE Stevie Nicks song on the album and since she didn't write "Seven Wonders" and I hate everything about "WTTR..S", I had to like WISYA by default. :laugh: Damnit, Beavis, don't make me slap you! :p

;) :laugh:

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
Maybe you just need to snort a mountain of cocaine before you listen to those albums to "get" them? :shrug: :laugh: I dunno... I've never partaken of a single illegal substance in my life, and I "get" them, so...!

But then, I'm a weirdo from way-back! :laugh:

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by WednesdaysChild
RE: the RAL songs...aren't most of them NOT written by her? Or they are co-written w/ someone else? That says a lot right there... Yes, many of them do have a co-writing credit... but Stevie was the lyricist, and the other person credited was writing the music. :)

dissention

08-14-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
Maybe you just need to snort a mountain of cocaine before you listen to those albums to "get" them? :shrug: :laugh:

LOL

I get them, they just aren't very good songs when you consider what she was capable of. :)

sodascouts

08-14-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by dissention
I mean, I just think that songs like I Can't Wait, The Nightmare, If I Were You, Imperial Hotel, and I Sing For the Things are pretty self-explanatory once you hear the lyrics, whereas when you hear Sara or Gold Dust Woman you actually have to *think* about what she's saying or at least ponder it for awhile. Her mid-eighties songs don't do it for me because they aren't as deep and edited very well. Some of them just make me laugh.

ITA agree about the early 80s lyrics being more substantive than the later 80s (as a rule, certainly not without exception). I find the following songs off of RAL especially grating: Sister Honey, Imperial Hotel, and THE NIGHTMARE (wretched - arguably one of her worst!). From OSOTM: Long Way to Go, Ghosts, Fire Burning, Alice, and Doing the Best That I Can.

On the other hand, Ooh My Love and Battle of the Dragon are two of my top 20 Stevie songs ever, and they were also written around that time. BOTD is especially brilliant. So I wouldn't say that Stevie couldn't write or sing at that point. I would say that she perhaps lost her focus a bit, maybe was feeling a little uninspired and couldn't find the energy to break out of it with all her drug difficulties.

The fact that Johnny Stew likes this period BEST shows that beauty really is in the ear of the beholder, lol.

tommer

08-14-2003, 02:24 PM

there are some things that i already gave up hope to be ever able to understand; mathematics, eminem fans, why people think cinnamon is good, fluorescent lighting, people who don't believe deodorant is a man's best friend, users that turns off their cellphones, and stevie nicks fans who don't get When I See You Again.
yes, it's repetative, but not by any means 'family-man-repetative'. every time she goes back to "what's the matter baby" she sings this line in a totally different expression and manner.
it's one of those little intimate stevie songs such as goodbye baby or landslide... i love the way it's written and i adore the way she sounds there, let's face it, she was never about vocal ability, she's all about vocal expression, WISYA is just one of those songs, you cannot listen to it without FEELING it, it's so true and so desperate, that it can melt even the icyest hearts (such as mine :eek:.)

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by sodascouts
The fact that Johnny Stew likes this period BEST shows that beauty really is in the ear of the beholder, lol. That it is. ;)

I do think that some of my affection for this period is born out of the chaotic nature of Stevie's life at the time.
I find it amazing that she could still... in my opinion, at least... be very creative.
Despite how it may seem, I don't think she hit a home-run everytime, but I still think this was an amazing period in her career.

I also think that the difference between me and a lot of people here, is that I pretty much joined the ride at the time of 'Rock A Little.'
I wasn't someone who was looking back and comparing it to things she had already written (despite that I had already known and loved songs like "Gypsy" and "Edge Of Seventeen") and at the time, I didn't know about the cocaine addiction, or that Stevie hadn't always been so over-the-edge in her performances.

It was all pretty new, and exciting, and compelling to me.

But, if there really wasn't anything there, I would have lost interest years ago (as I have in so many other artists I've listened to over the years).

There have been some very major, and markedly different periods in Stevie's career, and it's no wonder that we all feel so vehemently about the various stages.

CarneVaca

08-14-2003, 02:37 PM

CarneVaca... Nancy (sodascouts) made the comment that "I Must Go," "sounds more like a man caught in an endless loop of indecision than one who is breaking free," as part of her argument as to why she doesn't care for the song.
To which you whole-heartedly agreed (at least that's how I took your "BINGO" response)... implying that this is what makes the song so terrific.

Well, sure, the point being that he's stuck in this situation and he keeps telling himself in very frenetic way that he must go. Hmmm, who hasn't been there? It makes the song rather brilliant, in my humble estimation. I've always loved this song.

So, once again, I don't understand why... when Lindsey has taken a certain step (an endlessly repeated phrase, in this case), it's EXACTLY the right thing for the song, and another facet of what makes it so great... but if Stevie also uses a repeated phrase, or a particular vocal style, it's somehow a cop-out on her part, and the resulting song is merely "drivel" and "tripe."

Well, buddy, I challenge you to find where I wrote that the repetition of that particular phrase in When I See You Again is what makes me dislike the song. While it doesn't make me like it any better, what really offends me about the song is the awful singing and the stupid words. I understand what you're saying about what the song evokes, and I'm glad it works for you, but to me, it is absolutely excruciating. The words are probably the worst she has ever written next to Silver Girl.

Can you at least understand how, as much as you, personally, can glean from a song such as "I Must Go," and as much as you find enjoyment from it... that's how much a song such as "When I See You Again" can be appreciated by, and moving to, someone else?

Dude, that's fine with me. I've never said anyone was wrong here. I merely said that using the term "unfair" and directing it at the reasons people give for not liking the song to be silly. Say you don't like broccoli. Is that unfair? I don't happen to like Buicks because they're unsightly. Is that unfair?

I'm also reminded of your arguments for "Family Man"... another song which a large amount of people often cite as "the worst" (though I myself happen to love the song).

You and your elephantine memory. But one thing that escaped you then and escapes you still is that I am not particularly fond of the lyrics in that song. I simply believe that he said all he wanted to say, thereby accomplishing what he set out to do, and put beautiful music to it to boot, hence my "simplicity is beauty" coment.

but to completely write it off (aside from Lindsey's contribution to the song), is... in my opinion... a bit short-sighted.

You're going to have to enlighten me here on how the term "short-sighted" applies to disliking a song. That's right up there with "unfair." Really, please explain.

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 03:04 PM

Well, I'm not going to be bothered to read thru the entire thread again, so I won't be quoting any particular comment you made... but you are right, you haven't specifically stated that the "what's the matter, baby" section causes your dislike for the song. Though you did state the the lyrics are "bad," and that section is a part of the lyrics, so I was left to assume (my bad) that this included... or perhaps was due in no small part to... the repetitive phrase.

In regards to "Family Man"... it's true that I never "got" before that you're not particularly fond of the lyrics. I don't recall you every stating that specifically. And since the lyrics... to me, at least... are more important than anything else in any song... my take on your "beauty in simplicity" praise of "Family Man," was that it included the lyrics, as a complete package.

I guess it's possible to appreciate a song almost solely based on the music, but if the lyrics are the weakest link, then the author may as well have left it as an instrumental. To me, at least, since the lyrics are what I respond to most.

Now, as far as my "short-sighted" comment...
In my opinion, the things for which people bash "When I See You Again"... the stark lyrics, the repetitive phrase, Stevie's tattered voice... are all the things that make this song so brilliant. Each is an important facet, and each is... in my opinion... completely intentional.
Just as Lindsey apparently accomplished what he set out to do, in songs such as "I Must Go," and "Family Man," I believe that "When I See You Again" is EXACTLY what Stevie (and Fleetwood Mac, as a whole) set out to make it.

Truly, one needs to look no further than the fact that there were many other songs of Stevie's that they could have used instead. Or that she could have offered them.

The "saving the best material for the solo albums" argument never holds water in my opinion, because I feel that there is no way Stevie would intentionally offer up weak material for Fleetwood Mac... which couldn't possibly accomplish anything other than making her look bad.
(By the way, I am not saying that you implied anywhere here or elsewhere, that Stevie did this... I'm just making a point here.) :)

So I feel that Stevie full-heartedly felt very strongly and passionately enough about "When I See You Again," to offer it to Fleetwood Mac.
And I feel that Fleetwood Mac felt strongly enough to want to go thru the process of recording it, when they could have just as easily said, "what else do you have?"

And it's my bet that this song turned out EXACTLY the way all parties wished it to.

It's absolutely someone's right to say that the lyrics "sucked," or that her voice "sucked," but those particular comments are what I feel are "unfair"... in much the same way as it would be "unfair" to write off "I Must Go" or "Family Man," for weak lyrics or repeated phrases.
The song goes far beyond any of its individual parts.

If someone dislikes it, I respect that... and again, as I said before, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I know I'll never be able to do that.
I just wished to "defend" it, in much the same way as others have defended their favorite songs. :)

We're just all so danged passionate about this music! :D

ericktul

08-14-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by RavenOfRhiannon

Saying you don't like it because it sucks is actually a more valid opinion than saying she can't write or sing at this point in her career. If you don't like it because it sucks in your opinion, that's fine.

I hate to jump right in the middle of this, but...

Not to sound rude, Randy, but who are you to decide what is or is not a valid opinion? ANY opinion is valid, if only because it is someone's belief and point of view. And if someone says Stevie can't write or sing, that is their opinion. It isn't fact. Then again, it isn't fact that Stevie CAN write or sing.

I just don't see what the big fuss is about. You like one song that someone else despises. I happen to like WISYA alot, but I also respect the viewpoints of those who do not, because I can appreciate that they do NOT like it.

Just my $0.02 on this overblown thread.

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by ericktul
Just my $0.02 on this overblown thread. Randy was also stating an opinion. ;) :)

At any rate... since all of our excitement about the new album and tour has somewhat died down, I guess we needed another rousing debate to get everyone's juices flowing.

The debate over "When I See You Again" is an old war-horse. :)

chiliD

08-14-2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
The debate over "When I See You Again" is an old war-horse. :)

You're calling Stevie a WHAT?!?!?! :eek:

Oh....never mind... :sorry: ...read it wrong. :laugh:

sulamith

08-14-2003, 03:28 PM

Hmmmmm, proportionately, it appears more than a "handful" of people like WISYA.

We'll argue this forever, because when it comes to matters of taste and opinion there is no right answer.

-Sharon

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
You're calling Stevie a WHAT?!?!?! :eek:

Oh....never mind... ...read it wrong. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 03:35 PM

Hey, Joe (DownOnRodeo), if you're out there... we need a "When I See You Again" - "tastes great" vs. "less filling" icon! :D :laugh:

sodascouts

08-14-2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

Just as Lindsey apparently accomplished what he set out to do, in songs such as "I Must Go," and "Family Man," I believe that "When I See You Again" is EXACTLY what Stevie (and Fleetwood Mac, as a whole) set out to make it.

You make some good points, but this reminds me of something I once heard - that Lindsey didn't want to sing the last part himself, but that he was "tricked" into it by recording what he thought would be backing vocals and then Stevie and the rest of FM informing him that there would be only his vocals at the end! He protested but was "outvoted." Has anyone else heard this story?

dissention

08-14-2003, 04:00 PM

David

08-14-2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by sodascouts
ITA agree about the early 80s lyrics being more substantive than the later 80s (as a rule, certainly not without exception). I find the following songs off of RAL especially grating: Sister Honey, Imperial Hotel, and THE NIGHTMARE (wretched - arguably one of her worst!). Ohhh nooo, Nancy! I actually think "The Nightmare" is Stevie's most wildly inventive & unfettered & most uncanny song of all time! It's primordial. I think Stevie's entire essence -- all that windswept Bronte stuff -- is wrapped up inside this one song. I find it all absolutely wrenching, like being careened across the moors in "Wuthering Heights" at rocket speed. Lyrically, it seems to contain hints of the abyss, & Stevie's vocals just kick butt. I love love love "The Nightmare."

David

08-14-2003, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by sulamith
Hmmmmm, proportionately, it appears more than a "handful" of people like WISYA. Sharon, I think the reason I really love that track is because the arrangement is so gorgeous. It even has a poignant little hint of that early 1970s "Buckingham Nicks" texture in the acoustic guitar & the shaker. But I also love Stevie's vocal because a certain sort of veneer has been dropped; she is emotionally ... ahem ... naked. I really think it's the dizzy high point of the entire album. And then Buckingham comes in for that final stanza, & it's just killer. The first time I heard it was when KMET was previewing the whole album, & I tuned in a bit late, but I heard this beautiful acoustic number being played. It stopped me in my tracks right then & there.

cliffdweller

08-14-2003, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Sorcerer386
I have to be in the right kind of mood for WISYA. If I've had a bad day, it'll grate on my nerves. Not because of "What's the matter baby," that's actually my favorite part (probably because everyone else hates it). I just really don't like how Stevie presents the song. Her voice is a bit too wistful. Plus, the song I think needed more parts to it for the end. Instead you get Lindsey singing a few lines and the music just goes on and on.

As for Red Rover, I think it's actually beginning to get it's itch on me. But still a big problem with the song is, as with many songs on SYW, I can't understand what the Hell Lindsey is saying. And that bothers me since I'm a lyrics person as well as a sing-a-long person, so if I can't hear the words I can't learn the words and therefore I cannot sing along. Worse for me is Murrow and Come, the former due to it's even worse vocal clarity, and the latter due to Lindsey annoying screeching on the chorus. Too much head voice, and too much guitar. However, Come in concert was much better.

I love all these songs, I think they're a nice change of pace for F.M., and Lindsey's songwriting is just stellar on this album. Kudos to Linds. His songs are what put this album over the top for me. Stevie's songs, while fabulous, are what you'd expect from her, nothing new, or terribly exciting. She shakes it up a bit musically and vocally on Illume but other than that it's kind of like, been there done that. I love Stevie don't get me wrong, but this album is Lindsey's shining moment.

Johnny Stew

08-14-2003, 06:29 PM

David, you drive me crazy (in a good way)!
You always manage to eloquently convey, in one or two simple paragraphs, what it would take me multiple posts to even just attempt to express.

I am, as always, in awe. :)

strandinthewind

08-14-2003, 07:17 PM

I like WISYA, but could totally do without the "baby" word orgy. :laugh:

I love The Second Time because it just fits in so well with that period and I also think she sounds great in it. The only thing about this song that gets me is the bad dub at "Do you remember you took my hand (bad dub) do you remember my friend?

darklinensuit

08-14-2003, 11:38 PM

I like WISYA, and I agree with the poster who wrote that her vocal tone is deliberate. I find her voice on this far less grating than on I Sing for the Things, though she uses that same scratchy voice on my favorite version of Lady from the Mountain, and it works for me there.
I love the RAL album. It has a positive energy that lifts me up. I agree that many of the lyrics are less obscure (and intriguing) than her earlier ones, but there are some lines I love, like the "Come back, solemn stranger" one. Her voice has so much punch on this album.
This ought to ruffle some feathers, but I don't think EFO is any more meaningful or catchier than much of what's rocking on the RAL album. I much prefer Imperial Hotel or No Spoken Word. As much as people criticize her voice on this album, I enjoy it more than a few spots on the SYW album. At the starts of EFO and DR, Stevie's voice sounds flat to me in a way I haven't heard since some of my least fave vocals on TOSOTM, such as Alice, Two Kinds of Love, and b-side Real Tears. (Of course, on both the SYW and TOSOTM albums, I like the vocals on most songs.)
Also, IMO one of the great things about the RAL and Tango albums is the unpredictability/uniqueness of her vocals on the first listen. In WTTRS, I love the"This is a dream, right? Deja vu" and "uh uh" (before "well, I thought that you were mine").
I like The Nightmare on RAL because it has the weirdest lyrics on the album. "So about the moon and her sisters/How dare he take them prisoner/Well, if she had flung out her heart against him/Then in all of her wisdom/Oooh, that was a mystery" (yeah, I'll say). Still, like Johnny Stew, I do "get" the songs on this album.
As for Red Rover, originally I preferred it to Come. Now I like the verses on Come more, I am impressed by the guitar on RR more, but I really don't like the chorus in either song. The RR chorus just drags on each listen, and I have no desire to hum or sing along or think about the lyrics.
Christy, since you asked about other songs, I'll add that I cannot stand Chris's songs on Time except for All Over Again, which is my favorite song on the album. I cannot stand Family Man because of the music; I have no problem with the repetitive lyrics or vocals. I like You and I Part II, but not Part I. I think Affairs of the Heart could be much improved. I think Ghosts is one of the best songs on TOSOTM. I could go on with more opinions, but this thread is starting to look more and more like my old "Okay, Confess" one.

- Jake

TwoTricky

08-15-2003, 06:29 AM

Some people go to the Grand Canyon and look at it in wonder and amazement and think one of two things:

1) It's one of Nature's phenonemon's. It's beautiful. It's majestic. You could see God's work right here!

2) It's ain't nothing but a big hole in the ground!!

I happen to like When I See You Again....(although my favorite Stevie track on Tango is WTTR...S for those keeping score). Is it her BEST song....no...but again, given the time and circumstances surrounding the recording and writing of this album...I listen to it with a 'sympathetic' ear and heart.

To me, it's another chapter in the ongoing saga of Stevie and Lindsey. It speaks volumes. I believe at this time Stevie was out of Betty Ford and question how Lindsey would 'react' to her in the studio (this was pretty much verified in Mick's book) "Will it be the same...Will it be over...Will your great eyes still say..."

Yes, the Whatsamattababy's throw the song off track, but hell, at this point in her life, she's probably hearing this phrase from everyone. It probably became "monotonous" for her to hear. We're just 'hearing what she's hearing.'

The walking down the halls, the stairs and staring at things...these all symbolize 'obstacles', 'choices' and deciding which is the 'path' to take...things look different now that your 'sober' (at least at that moment)

"If she sees him again....will your very best friend have been replaced by some other"..Again, i'm thinking she's more or less felt she's 'lost' Lindsey at this point in her life...

The last verse about "Dreams" coming and going...but still there is a dream left, pretty self explainatory...when all else fails, we still have our dreams.

And of course, Lindsey finishing the song, whether under protest or not, is very fitting...at least at this point in time, Lindsey is still a part of her dreams...her life.

I've tried to listen to Red Rover and Murrow and 'figure out' what the hell Lindsey is trying to get across...and I admit I'm still scratching my head alot....these are two songs that just don't sit well with me...but i'm not going to say 'it suck' or 'it repetitive (how many times does he say Murrow in the chorus) or whatever.

Frankly, EVERY member of Mac HAS been guilty of repetition in one form or the other...whether it's repetitve lyrics, melodies, rythyms or riffs...but some people respond to those 'hooks' and it reels the listener it...so IMHO, that arguement is POINTLESS!!

Anywho, I will conclude now ('cause I could go on and on :D ) I will just say while When I See You Again, while not 'majestic' is more than a mere 'hole in the ground' and while Red Rover and Murrow are not 'holes in the ground' but far from 'majestic'.:cool:

In either case...KEEP THE LOVE Y'ALL!!:cool: KEEP THE LOVE!!!

Sorcerer386

08-15-2003, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by sodascouts
You make some good points, but this reminds me of something I once heard - that Lindsey didn't want to sing the last part himself, but that he was "tricked" into it by recording what he thought would be backing vocals and then Stevie and the rest of FM informing him that there would be only his vocals at the end! He protested but was "outvoted." Has anyone else heard this story?

Actually the story I heard, which I believe was on sararhiannon.com, is that yes, they told Lindsey that he was just singing backup, but then Stevie "snuck back into the studio and took her voice off."

As a side to this thread also, does anyone think on certain parts of Red Rover that Lindsey sounds very much like Christine? I would say what lines, but I can't figure out most of the lyrics and I'm too lazy right now to look them up. But it's on the high vocal parts.

Nicks Fan

08-15-2003, 09:28 PM

Tango In The Night as we all know was a record that was recorded during very tense times in the band. I wonder if any of the members were offering up his or her best effort lyricly and musically. In some cases yes (Big Love, Seven Wonders, Little Lies) and in some ways no (You and I Part II, When I See You Again). The two songs just mentioned are tracks that I have listened to many times, but do not find enjoyable. I think that every member of FM at this time had their shining moments and there memonets where it felt like they were merely there and not putting any substantial effort into the recordings.

As for Lindseys stuff on SYW I totally agree that come is a good song ,but the chorus is hard to understand. All I can understand is the part where he says "Cause I know Nobody is else is doing it. I know nobody else is doing too. after that I had to consult the lyrics to understand what the heck is saying.

Oh and The Second Time is one of Fav Stevie Songs.
Matt :)

Vianna

08-15-2003, 09:45 PM

"When I see you again" is one of my favorite Stevie songs-and I love the RAL album-Geez I must be weird=:-)

Now I don't like GYOW-never have, it's something about the rhythm of it, I just don't know. Not wild about "Angel" either; or Down By The Railway Station or whatever it's called on Mirage-that one's way too country-sounding for me.

On the new album, Red Rover and Everybody Finds Out I can do without. I didn't like Come til I heard it live and now I love it.

GardenStateGirlie

08-15-2003, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Vianna
"When I see you again" is one of my favorite Stevie songs-and I love the RAL album-Geez I must be weird=:-)

Now I don't like GYOW-never have, it's something about the rhythm of it, I just don't know. Not wild about "Angel" either; or Down By The Railway Station or whatever it's called on Mirage-that one's way too country-sounding for me.

On the new album, Red Rover and Everybody Finds Out I can do without. I didn't like Come til I heard it live and now I love it.

I absolutely LOVE That's Alright (your railway station song...teehee!!) I think you'd really like the demo and if you are able to find it (if not, i can e-mail it to you). It's called Designs of Love and it's just Stevie, Lindsey and his guitar. I love harmonizing with Stevie and singing it...it's really a great song :nod:

CarneVaca

08-15-2003, 09:58 PM

I was in the middle of writing a reply in this thread when my computer went out, my building fell into darkness, the emergency lights kicked in and I had to evacuate in a hurry. Twenty-four flights of stairs, six miles of unplanned walking through sweltering heat and a car ride from a stranger later, somehow this argument doesn't feel as important anymore.

In any case, When I See You Again sucks. It always has. Always will.

sodascouts

08-16-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I was in the middle of writing a reply in this thread when my computer went out, my building fell into darkness, the emergency lights kicked in and I had to evacuate in a hurry. Twenty-four flights of stairs, six miles of unplanned walking through sweltering heat and a car ride from a stranger later, somehow this argument doesn't feel as important anymore.

In any case, When I See You Again sucks. It always has. Always will.

And here I was thinking this thread was a matter of life or death. ;)

Glad you're OK.

Johnny Stew

08-16-2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by sodascouts
And here I was thinking this thread was a matter of life or death.It isn't?!?
Dang, I didn't get that memo! ;) *lol*

At any rate, "When I See You Again" rocks. Always has. Always will. ;) :D

wondergirl9847

08-16-2003, 02:50 PM

When I See You Again: Discussion. :laugh:

I seriously thought this thread would have died by now, I had no idea it would open up a debate over WISYA. LOL

WISYA...IMO, is not as bad as I originally thought because it's grown on me a tad...I don't think it's GREATNESS or anything, but like Silver Girl, it takes some time to get used to it, I guess. Lindsey's part makes it for me....along with his gorgeous guitar work at the end. Mostly tho, the song brings TITN to a SCREECHING halt when 95% of the record is so upbeat and so.....80's. LOL That's my MAIN beef with it.

tommer

08-16-2003, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I was in the middle of writing a reply in this thread when my computer went out, my building fell into darkness, the emergency lights kicked in and I had to evacuate in a hurry.
relax, your bitching at WISYA wasn't what caused that electric problems, stop blaming yourself, this wasn't your fault. :wavey:

strandinthewind

08-16-2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I was in the middle of writing a reply in this thread when my computer went out, my building fell into darkness, the emergency lights kicked in and I had to evacuate in a hurry. Twenty-four flights of stairs, six miles of unplanned walking through sweltering heat and a car ride from a stranger later, somehow this argument doesn't feel as important anymore.

In any case, When I See You Again sucks. It always has. Always will.

On the contrary, your irreverent and unabashed Stevie bashing has consequences!

Continue this behavior and worse will come! :cool:

:laugh:

Seriously, glad you all are okay. :cool:

sulamith

08-16-2003, 04:05 PM

I wouldn't be dissing Stevie anymore if I were you.....

.............it does irrepairable things to your karma.

-Sharon

CarneVaca

08-16-2003, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by tommer
relax, your bitching at WISYA wasn't what caused that electric problems, stop blaming yourself, this wasn't your fault. :wavey:

I tell you what: I would love to have run into the dumbass who caused the problem while I was walking across the bridge to Queens.

EveryHour

08-16-2003, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by sulamith
If you want to attack Stevie for the repetiveness of WISYA, you gotta give Lindsey the same for I Must Go.

You could say that's the worst piece of drivel to ever come out of Lindsey. He says "I must go" about about 147 times.

Ok, Linds, I get it. You gotta go. Go already. He was making a point about his life at the time. Even though it's not my favorite thing to listen to, I can appreciate it that was something he needed to express. You can't bash an artist for doing what true artists do, which is emote about their experiences.

In WISYA, Stevie is doing the same thing. It's not my favorite song, but hearing her sounding like that, so broken, so fragile, her voice so ravaged.......... it does make me want to cry and give her a hug. It's an expression of all her hurt and pain at the time. It's not supposed to be pretty to listen to.

That's what I love about them both. You get all the emotions, all the parts of their lives, and it's not always pretty.

-Sharon

This is GREAT input. I'm not going to bother saying anything else, because these are my thoughts exactly.:nod:
(The only exception is WISYA is absolutely one of my favorite Stevie songs!):)