New Material vs. Old Material

[mikeboston]

Pretty thin start-off for a thread, but this has been on my mind...

Is anyone else ever thrown by the fact that a good portion of Stevie's new songs are upwards of 25 years old.

Two examples: "Planets of the Universe" had me wondering how that fit into Stevie's life. Then she revealed that it had been written in the mid-seventies.

"Running Through the Garden" is another one that had me going, "hmm", then I read that it also came from the late-seventies Fleetwood Mac days.

Conclusion: I realize Stevie has a huge backlog of unrecorded songs in her journals, etc (what a problem to have!) but I'd like to hear a new solo album with all current (or very recent) compositions. I'd like to hear how her life now, as she roars through her fifties, translates into song. I could get by without a song about how she felt in mid-1975!

That being said, I still love just about everything she puts out. Just looking for a crisp lyrical look at Stevie right now.

[strandinthewind]

I totally see what you are saying. I also think that in some of the newly copyrighted material, she has new verses as well as some unrealeased or unused verses that she wrote in her journals in the 70's that she is now also applying to the new stuff.

Interestingly, in the Fritz demos I have heard, the lyrics are really different and very journalesq., but I think Stevie said Fritz never really recorded any of her stuff. Yest, you hear "Amber," which based on the sound of her vocal clearly is from that time and it sounds like Stevie wrote it (Gemini, the color of the eyes, a baby girl, horoscopes, etc. ) I wish I had my demo so I could listen to it now :mad:

[Merf]

Hi Mike :wavey:

Well, if we're lucky enough to get a new solo album from Stevie after this tour (and I think we will be), I think it should be filled with a lot of new stuff. I think that the Phoenix Four (SYW, Silver Girl, Destiny Rules, and Illume-- all written in 12/01) were a real turning point for her because she hadn't written anything new in a couple of years. Does anyone know if there were any other "newer" things written for TISL (besides Bombay Sapphires-1999, Fall From Grace, and TISL?) Stevie has always said that touring really is where she feels most creative. I am sure that she has already written stuff that will eventually be turned into songs that express all the feelings and the goings-on during the SYW album sessions and tour. So let's hope her new album is filled with "fresh" material :)

xx Meredith

[mikeboston]

Strand...

I think "Illume" shows that Stevie can bang out a great song based on her / our current world. Do you think she's a little gun-shy about doing that fulltime and thus falls back on what she might think is more solid material?

[mikeboston]

Hi Meredith!

I thought I had read that TISL (the song) was also an old lyric from the seventies. If it was new for the album, then I feel a little better. The whole root of my concern is that when I hear a great song and it's old, and then a so-so song that is brand new, then I start to worry that maybe the great songwriting days are sliding by for Stevie.

...of course, then I hear "I KNOW you don't believe" rattling around in my skull and slap myself around for doubting her!

Mike

[strandinthewind]

No - I think she can give new material with the best of them and hope she continues to do so. I am just saying that even in Illume, one of those verses may have been a journal entry written awhile back and it just fit in with this song. For example, she may have been attracked to the way she pronounces "Illume" in 1994 (or whenever) and written "Illume, says the candle that I burn" at that time in the margin of her journal thinking "I will use this phrase one day." Then, she realized it worked in this poem she was writing years later. Same thing for the "trade you for jade" part. That could have been written awhile back but never "pulled" for a song until Illume, where it fits. LB sort of supported this when he said SN's songs are sort of stream of consciousness. SN has also supported this by saying songs like EO17 are about one or two things that are related in her mind; also Destiny was written in 1973 (?) and then, according to Stevie in the Rolling Stone photo shoot, Enchanted was written around 1981 when she was driving in a limo to Long Island. In the latter case Enchanted was released years before Destiny and perhaps copyrighted before Destiny (but I could be wrong about that and am too lazy to look it up). Then again, she could have written all of Illume in one sitting without looking or remembering previous journal entries. She needs to loan me her journals so I can perform some research!!! :laugh:

In any event, no matter how she gets the words, I am glad she gets them.

[mikeboston]

I think McCartney said, when asked how he writes, that he's afraid to analyze his method for fear of screwing it up. I agree that however Stevie does it, she does it right.

[Merf]

Originally posted by mikeboston
Hi Meredith!

I thought I had read that TISL (the song) was also an old lyric from the seventies. If it was new for the album, then I feel a little better. The whole root of my concern is that when I hear a great song and it's old, and then a so-so song that is brand new, then I start to worry that maybe the great songwriting days are sliding by for Stevie.

Mike

Yeah, but whenever I feel that way, I just cruise on over to track 16... Destiny Rules.... and I forget that I even doubted her. What an amazing song, written in Dec. 2001. :nod:

:wavey:

I think she has a lot more to say. :)

[Johnny Stew]

Don't forget that "Thrown Down," "Not Make Believe," and "Everybody Finds Out," were also only written within the last few years.

I guess I've never really questioned Stevie's use of older songs, because she has done this pretty much throughout her entire career (well, once she had enough songs backlogged of course).

Heck, when you think about it, this habit goes all the way back to 'Rumours,' when they recorded "I Don't Want To Know," which was written back in the 'Buckingham Nicks' days.
(Even "Rhiannon" and "Landslide" were originally written for a second 'Buckingham Nicks' album.)

On 'Tusk,' she pulled out "Sisters Of The Moon," which she wrote during her first tour with Fleetwood Mac back in 1975.

For 'Bella Donna,' she used quite a few of her previously written songs... "Kind Of Woman," "Think About It," "After The Glitter Fades," "Leather And Lace," and "The Highwayman" were all written in the mid- to late-'70s.

'Mirage' had "That's Alright," which was written about 7 years previous.

'The Wild Heart's' title track was actually written before "Bella Donna," and "Beauty And The Beast" was first demo'd for 'Tusk.'

('Rock A Little' had a few tracks that were a couple of years old, but the songs were all pretty much new.
Same with her songs on 'Tango In The Night,' and 'The Other Side Of The Mirror.')

On 'Street Angel,' a couple of the songs ("Greta," "Love Is Like A River") were originally intended for 'Rock A Little.'
"Rose Garden" was written in 1965...
"Destiny" was actually written before its sister song, "Enchanted"...
and "Jane" and "Listen To The Rain" were written in 1991.

And of course in recent years, she's finally released "If You Ever Did Believe," "Planets Of The Universe" (with newly written verses), "Candlebright," "Sorcerer," "Smile At You," "Goodbye Baby," and "Running Through The Garden" (which was also written around the 'Rock A Little' era).

So truly, for practically every album she's done, she has mixed some "catalogued" songs with newly written material.

I think in the case of Stevie's songs... because they're almost all reflections on affairs of the heart... even those that she wrote 25 years ago remain timeless, and appropriate for "the Stevie of today."

At least that's how I see it! :)

[dissention]

I still think that Everybody Finds Out was written back in the eighties.

But I always thought that the reason Stevie releases her old songs is because, while they may be old, they totally reflect her in the present time. If there are any parts of the song that don't, she just adds new lyrics; like she added lyrics to POTU.

In any case, I hope she continues to release old and new songs because I wanna hear SPACE NEEDLE!!! :laugh: :D

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
I still think that Everybody Finds Out was written back in the eighties."Everybody Finds Out" was written in 1999, and copyrighted (with the title "In The Darkness") in June of 2000. :)

[Merf]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
"Everybody Finds Out" was written in 1999, and copyrighted (with the title "In The Darkness") in June of 2000. :)

Thanks for the info, Johnny Stew.... I thought EFO was written a long time ago, but it does take on a whole new meaning to me when finding out that it was written in 1999. :nod:

[mikeboston]

Johnny Stew,

Thanks from me too for the info. I learned some things! Exactly why I'm here!

I realize that the nature of the business means that most songs are not recorded and released a week after they are penned. I guess it's my desire to know what is on Stevies mind as she sings / writes that leads me to really want to know if a song is current (loosely) or decades old. (I think I need a cheat-sheet with every album now after your last info-post!!)

Thanks again for the scoop.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
In any case, I hope she continues to release old and new songs because I wanna hear SPACE NEEDLE!!! :laugh: :D

I still maintain that they did not include this on Say You Will wasa huge mistake!!!!!!!!!

Also, I know EFO was writtn/copyrighted in 1999-2000, but that in no way is dispositive that that was when she originally wrote some of the lyrics in that song. In other words, in 1999, she could have pulled parts of her journal from 1977 to write that exact song. So, while the actual arrangement of those words or groups of words in "new," the actual words may not be not. I want to see those journals NOW!! :laugh:

[seeker007nmss]

I have a solution to this problem. A 20cd box set of all the songs and demo's she hasn't issued yet. (Just to clear the space for more room, mind you). Then she could start again and wouldn't have to worry about what to include or not on an albumn.

[mikeboston]

And not to be overly technical, but Stevie could write a song completely in 1975, and publish it in 2003. So unless we hear it right from her regarding origin dates, some songs published "now" could still be from "then." Copyrights are just a technicality.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
"Everybody Finds Out" was written in 1999, and copyrighted (with the title "In The Darkness") in June of 2000. :)

Have you read anywhere or has Stevie said that it was written in 1999? I read it on SaraRhiannon when it was copyrighted as "In the Darkness" but it didn't say anything about when it was written.

I think that it was written back in the day because of her involvement with Rick Nowels during the RAL days and it just sounds like a track that came out of those sessions. I know she worked with Nowels a *little* for TISL, though.

I guess until Stevie says something about it, we're all "in the darkness." :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
Have you read anywhere or has Stevie said that it was written in 1999? I read it on SaraRhiannon when it was copyrighted as "In the Darkness" but it didn't say anything about when it was written.In the registration info on the US Copyright site, there's a notation that the song was created in 1999....

Registration Number: PAu-2-509-624
Title: In the darkness.
Description: Sound cassette & lyrics sheets.
Claimant: Welsh Witch Music, Future Furniture Music
Created: 1999
Registered: 15Jun00
Author on © Application: words: Stevie Nicks; music: Rick Nowels



It's true though, that it's not always a fool-proof way to figure out exactly when a song was written. At least in the case of older songs, where it seems that the dates given on the site often reflect when they were being copyrighted because they were under considered for inclusion on a new project.
For example, "The Tower" is listed as being created in 1981, and copyrighted on April 28th, 1982.

But then there's "Smile At You," which, even though it wasn't registered until August 31st, 1999, the "created" date is given as 1977.

At any rate, 'Rock A Little' is not the only time that Stevie has worked with Rick Nowels. In fact, several songs on 'The Other Side Of The Mirror' were co-written with Rick, as well as "I Miss You" on 'Trouble In Shangri-La.'
So it's not a stretch to think that "Everybody Finds Out" was really written in 1999, as the registration info states. :)

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by dissention
Have you read anywhere or has Stevie said that it was written in 1999? I read it on SaraRhiannon when it was copyrighted as "In the Darkness" but it didn't say anything about when it was written.

I think that it was written back in the day because of her involvement with Rick Nowels during the RAL days and it just sounds like a track that came out of those sessions. I know she worked with Nowels a *little* for TISL, though.

I guess until Stevie says something about it, we're all "in the darkness." :laugh:

Yeah, it does sound very 80's, too 80's for my taste.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by cliffdweller
Yeah, it does sound very 80's, too 80's for my taste. I've noticed several people making comments that their enjoyment of "Running Through The Garden" and "Everybody Finds Out" is marred by the music sounding "too '80s."

With artists like No Doubt and Sugar Ray releasing albums that are a stylistic marriage of the '80s' musical sensibilities and a more current sound, it seems to me that Fleetwood Mac was right on the money incorporating a bit of that vibe on these two songs.

I think they both end up sounding very modern and edgy because of it. :)

[Christopher]

When I first heard the new version of "Running through the Garden". I though WOW!!! that sounds like No Doubt but even better cause Stevie is the original dame and Gwen could not even touch the cool lyrics and vibe in this song.....
I love the retro meets modern sound of these tracks (RTTG & EFO) .......never would I believed I would see the day where Stevie's tracks on a Fleetwood Mac recording would cover so much musical diversity....If you take her 10 songs from SYW it is truly like another Stevie solo disc but w/ Lindsey producing....very cool!!!

[EveryHour]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

So truly, for practically every album she's done, she has mixed some "catalogued" songs with newly written material.

I think in the case of Stevie's songs... because they're almost all reflections on affairs of the heart... even those that she wrote 25 years ago remain timeless, and appropriate for "the Stevie of today."

At least that's how I see it! :)

:nod: :nod: :nod: