Illume - is this the best?

[Rainman]

I just heard Illume on the radio, and cranked it up. It really is beautiful.

You know, the more I hear this song, the more I believe it's the crowning artistic achievement on the whole CD.

Other SYW songs are more approachable. Others get you rocking. A few are just plain clever. But Illume is the one song that seems to have real depth. It's just one of those songs that keeps sounding better and better.

Has anyone else found this? Just curious.

[gldstwmn]

Illume on the radio?:blob2: :blob1: :shocked:

I love the whole song from McVie's great bass to Stevie saying "It's just like a river, never ending." I also love the first time you hear Lindsey's guitar at the begining of the song.

[Rainman]

Illume on the radio?

Yeah. Heard it on Radioio -- internet radio. They play a lot of songs from SYW, sometimes two or three in a row. I've not heard Illume on regular radio.

[Sorcerer386]

While I love Illume, I have a number of favorites above it. I think the most insightful song is Destiny Rules, and I love the little tad of philosophy in Everybody Finds Out:

When love starts out in the darkness
It doesn't do well in the light
Affairs of the heart that start out in the dark
Usually stay with the night

Plus I love the lines: She spends every day, waiting for the day when everybody finds out.

As far as music matching the song goes, I think that goes to Running through the Garden...an urgently lyrical song that has matching urgent music: like it's saying "hurry up and get out of here before you're trapped!"

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Rainman
Has anyone else found this? Just curious.

No, at least not me. I find Lindsey's insights into the human condition in songs like Murrow, Red Rover and Peacekeeper to be far deeper. Illume, while I now understand what she was trying to do, is still a bit of a puzzlement to me. It's too inward-focused, considering the topic, in my opinion.

[blinker12]

I'm with you, Rainman. It's one of the songs from the CD that's had the most staying power for me. I never would have predicted that, since from a musical standpoint the song is very repetitive.
I think for me, it's the intensity of her vocal _ the way it builds to a wail at the end of the song _ paired with the power of *some* of the lyrics, especially in the chorus. (Although I agree that some lines are just silly... "I am a cliff-dweller from the old school" is right up there with "the forgotten chimpanzee" in my book!)
Also, John's bass is just fantastic _ really exciting, especially the way it creeps in at the beginning.
I also have learned to deal with that weird effects-laden interlude in the middle of the song (the "Speak N Spell" portion :D), which really turned me off at first.

[madformac]

I've already briefly touched on this in the SYW Survivor thread but...

I'm sorry but I find Illume about as lame as Stevie's movement on stage at the moment.

I don't know if it's Lindsey's fault for overproducing it or what.

There is absolutely no focus to the song at all. I've got the benefit for better or worse, of listening to it in 5.1 here and it sounds a mess, I also feel Stevie is reading her journals straight to song without any proper melodic construction :shrug:

Having just played it through 3 times I think one of the problems is the lack of dynamics within the song. It's one paced all the way through.

Yes, some of Lindsey's stuff is rather cluttered musically but I understand what he is trying to do, Red Rover being one instance. I have absolutely no idea what they were thinking on this one..... :o

[strandinthewind]

I really like Illume and listen to it often.

However, like the song Say You will, I think Illume suffers from the lack of an additional verse and a ridiculous amount of repetition. I also like if not love the beginning guitar, but wish they had ixnayed ( :laugh: ) the bongos, which I think inappropriately lighten what should be a dark, dense song to almost whimsical.

Interstingly, I totally get the "cliffdweller" line but, hey, I loved the chimp line so what do I know :laugh:

Again, I like the song, I just am adding my $0.02 as everyone is a critic you know!!!! :cool:

P.S. madformac - I must take complete offense at any quote by Jamaroquai - they undeservedly beat Silver Springs for a Grammy and, therefore, must be detroyed. To quote TreeBeard from Lord of the Rings "Destroyers and usurpers." :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
No, at least not me. I find Lindsey's insights into the human condition in songs like Murrow, Red Rover and Peacekeeper to be far deeper. Illume, while I now understand what she was trying to do, is still a bit of a puzzlement to me. It's too inward-focused, considering the topic, in my opinion. There's no doubt that there's a great deal going on in Lindsey's newer songs, but I think this particular batch of songs is not as "deep," because they tend to take an arm's-length view of the subjects being commented on.
Something of a journalistic distance... a critical-eye rather than any type of self-reflection.

As much as I love "Murrow" and the others, this batch of songs will never touch me as deeply as some of the tracks on 'Out Of The Cradle,' because I don't come away from the listening experience feeling as if I know anything more about Lindsey the person... or even myself.

A song like "Illume"... to me, at least... possesses greater depth because it allows you a glimpse into the songwriter's psyche. It's inward-focused because it's supposed to be. And I relate to that raw emotion, that despair, and that very real desire to find a way to get thru the situation to the other side. To come away from it all having grown from the experience.

I feel the same way about "When I See You Again"... which is so stark and confessional.
Stevie is really laying herself out bare on these songs, and I can't help but be moved.

I'm not saying one writing style is "better" than the other... just that I tend to relate to the one more, and to come away from it with something more.
But hey, that's one of the great things about these two writers... between Nicks & Buckingham, there's pretty much something for everyone to love. :)

[wondergirl9847]

I really love this song...it's unique. I like the melody and the wierd, freaky LB voice in the middle....I love the guitar opening the song and that high pitched guitar part.

I love singing this one along with Miss Stevie. She hit the nail concering 9-11....even in Texas, I was scared and didn't know what to do with myself.

"What I saw on this journey,
I saw history go down,
I cannot pretend that the heartache falls away
It's just like a river, ooh, it's never ending,
I cannot pretend, that the heartache falls away..."

Exactly. :(

[Rainman]

I can't say exactly WHY it's growing on me more than others. Perhaps Johnny Stew said it best: the raw emotion and despair. It's not an easy listen. But some of my most favorite songs didn't thrill me at first (a few from Abbey Road, or Thick as a Brick for example), but they've stood the test of time for whatever reason.

Illume may not make it with me in the long run, but for now it looks like it might.

Good comments, everyone.

[strandinthewind]

Also, the "nag champra" line and ther way she delivers it made me a little numb with, for want of a btter word, realization when I "got it," so to speak. I mean I think she cleaverly puts it in there so when you hear it, you are like WTF is this dizzy Hollywood hippie chick saying. THEN, when you realize her smelling it then (when she wrote the song) perhaps the smell of it then took her back to 9/11 when she had to use it to cover the smell of burnt people and carnage, it is just chilling to me. Sort of the opposite of when you hear a song you haven't heard since a big event it is associated with for you (like a prom) and you hearing it again after a long time suddenly and without hesitation reminds you in that flas of a moment all of the things surrounding that event and you smile. THAT is why I think she is just so great.

Note: I am not saying others in and out of this band or anywhere else are not also great writers. I am just saying La Nicks captured that feeling I and apparently she and many of us felt that day in such a vivid and chilling way for me that I just love her for that.

[The Catdancer]

I loved it right from the start, it's Stevie at her best. It's a very haunting song and her vocals are excellent. Well, everything about the song is excellent in my opinion. John's bass is phenomenal, Mick's percussion.... it's the whole package. I had chills all over when I first heard it and immediately fell in love with Illume. Too bad they won't do it live though. It's a real Stevie gem.
Take care ~ Debbie

[RavenOfRhiannon]

I have to agree, this song is incredible. I don't know about the rest of you, but there is usually one or two songs that directly relate to what is going on in my life at the moment an album comes out. On Say You Will, that song is 'Illume.' Just two weeks after the album came out, I had some huge trama in my life, too big to go into now. However, 'Illume' really gave some comfort to me in a time when I needed it most. It is amazing how she can take you right back to the scene of such atrocity, but give you comfort at the same time...

Randy

[sulamith]

I love Illume. It has a veery spiritual feel to it, and I think that is what Lindsey was trying to invoke by using that "trance house" feel to the music. Yes, it's monotonal, but it is supposed to sound like a Gregorian Chant or a mantra. It's inward focused because that's the way chants and mantras are. They are designed to uplift you internally.

I think this is why Lindsey set it up that way, to invoke that spiritual Buddhist monk sound. It sounds very similar to Madonna's Bedtime Stories, which was also inspired by trance house music. If you listen to both of them back to back, you will see what I mean.

I think this is the song that Stevie was saying was too monotonal on the VBoFM footage. Lindsey was going for a certain emotion by using that sound, and that's what I get from it, anyway.

I like to just close my eyes, light the nag champa, and let it lull me into meditation.


If you don't like it then, like Johnny Stew said, there's something for everybody.

-Sharon

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
THEN, when you realize her smelling it then (when she wrote the song) perhaps the smell of it then took her back to 9/11 when she had to use it to cover the smell of burnt people and carnage, it is just chilling to me. Sort of the opposite of when you hear a song you haven't heard since a big event it is associated with for you (like a prom) and you hearing it again after a long time suddenly and without hesitation reminds you in that flas of a moment all of the things surrounding that event and you smile. THAT is why I think she is just so great.

See, this is my problem with the song. And I don't dislike it. I think musically it's quite interesting, though I wish Lindsey had used a different tone on the recurring acoustic riff. It's a little harsh, when it should have been warmer. I like the bongos, and think they are appropriate. What I have trouble with is the words. I lived through this experience and the song does not speak to me at all. I said before that it comes acros as rather self-indulgent: "I was so scared. Wasn't it terrible?" Anyone in the island of Manhattan who didn't feel fear that day wasn't awake. So why tell us that? I wanted more substance. I remember reading a story about Stevie going to the street and serving firefighters coffee or something. She probably could have written an epic just from taking a quick look at a firefighter's face that day.

Mind you, as critical as I am of this song, I will confess this is a terribly tough subject. I've tried to write a song about that day and have never been able to. So I give Stevie credit for tackling the subject. I just think she took the wrong approach. For me. But obviously the song strikes a chord some of you, so that's cool.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
But obviously the song strikes a chord some of you, so that's cool.
It sure does, Carne. And it strikes the same chord over and over again! :laugh:

But seriously, that is actually what makes it for me ... the trance-like repitition of the guitar riff (not discounting the moving melodicism of John's bass line) lulls you through different stages of 'dealing'. Starts off dreamy, like falling into sleep, gets melancholy and then sinister, like falling into a nightmare, and then she finds her voice and strength, and fights her way through the pain/nightmare. Note the dark water in the lyric booklet. (This will later be 'waking up' into dawn when she repeats that verse in Destiny Rules, but for this song it's about troubled dreams, and being haunted by scary images/memories when there is no daylight.)

I think this song is about the nightmares she was having/going to be having rather than the nightmare of that day itself. I actually think I'm *glad* she didn't write anything too literal or directly pertinent to the events of that day ... the song's more about the 'dealing' process. When I first heard Illume on that SYW full-album stream, by the final powerful chorus I was so emotional, as the song <i>indirectly</i> reimaginated all the pain I had felt.

Because 9-11 made me sympathise on an unprecdneted level whether I wanted to or not. It was just so close to home. Hell, it was home for many of you. And so this song is not about the pain felt by the victims of that day ... that pain speaks for itself. This is a song about sympathy and all the bystanders who were shattered with it.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Everyone's 9-11 experience was so unique, yet at the same time, we all suffered the same universal feelings of fear and anger. In that light, I think illume is brilliant. Illume touches on both the "I" and the "we." It is impossible to write a song that can summarize the day in one respect or another for every single person who expereinced it. That is just a ludicrous concept. But writing a song describing your own feelings and relating them somehow to how other people felt makes for a much better song. That's why I like Stevie's writing-- you can take her "I" and make it your own.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
It is impossible to write a song that can summarize the day in one respect or another for every single person who expereinced it. That is just a ludicrous concept.

Nor was I suggesting that. Let's put it this way: Any time you have to use the word "trauma" to refer to "trauma," you haven't worked very hard.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Nor was I suggesting that. Let's put it this way: Any time you have to use the word "trauma" to refer to "trauma," you haven't worked very hard.

:laugh: Well, La Nicks had to rhyme something with champra after all!!! :cool: - at least she remained in the same tense :laugh:

I also agree with what you were saying about perhaps adding a verse or two about the firefighters or Stevie lending her tour bus to the Backstreet Boys road crew that lost family in this horrible event. That somehow would have given the song the hope she says she always tries to put into songs.

But all in all, I like the song very much - I just, as apparently always, want more lyrics and less repetition. A friend of mine always tells me I just like "word soup" :laugh:

[dissention]

Next to Say Goodbye, Illume is my favorite track on the album. It's one of the most unique songs I've ever heard and stands out as the most emotionally moving song on the album.

However, I wholeheartedly agree with Carne that it is totally self-indulgent. I know that Stevie writes about herself all the time, but gosh, to write a song that centers around you and 9/11? It's a bit of bad taste. At the same time though, I think that what she was feeling was the general way everyone else was feeling on that day, but she should've expanded more on the emotions of everyone involved (like the country), not just herself. It's kind of off-putting at first. With that said, I've never heard a Mac song that is so moving (other than Storms).

I really love the way the song starts slow, picks up pace, then explodes after the computrized voice, only to slowly go out with the la-la's. It's very stream-of-consciousness and that's what I love about it. The repetition works amazingly well, IMO. It drives home the fact that this was such a terrible thing. People were so afraid that all they could do was think of their fear over and over and over again. And the lines "I will not take you for granted/I will not trade you for jade/Not for diamonds/Not for anything/Not for a minute" are just beautiful and stunning. Perhaps some of the best lyrics Stevie's ever written.

When Stevie wrote it, she was "alone with her thoughts." That's why I just view the music itself as secondary. It's just theme music to go with her state of mind and mood at the time the song was written. Dark, dense, and intense.

I also don't think Lindsey really put his stamp on it. I'll bet money that if we ever hear the demo, it'll be ramarkably similar to the album version. I don't think that much was changed due to the fact that it was such a dear song to Stevie. And she's said that when he heard the demo, he put his hand on her knee and asked "How do you do this?" and shed some tears!

[celestenadia]

I like "Illume". It is "aging" well to me. I'm a New Yorker, and the
song does "speak" to me...
What really still does amuse me though with regard to this song
is, what IS the real deal with the "Illumay" and the "nag champra"?
Should I go to the nicksfix and go to "Ask Stevie"?
:laugh:

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by celestenadia

What really still does amuse me though with regard to this song
is, what IS the real deal with the "Illumay" and the "nag champra"?
Should I go to the nicksfix and go to "Ask Stevie"?
:laugh:

I think whoever guessed that it was probably related to copyright issues was onto something. Illume (pronounced in two syllables) is definately a brand name of candles... not sure if Nag Champa is a brand name, but it probably is.

[sulamith]

I have a friend here who owns a New Age store, and she sells Illume candles and Nag Champa incense.

I happened to have asked her both of these questions, and she said Nag Champa is the name of the scent, and that most people sell the kind in the red,white, & blue box like you see everywhere that is imported from the east. On the candle pronounciation, all she could say was, "Well, 'Ill-loo-may' is the French pronounciation, so maybe Stevie was feeling a bit cosmopolitan that day, (and she laughed)...... no seriously, maybe she just thought it sounded prettier that way."

I think it does have a prettier, more musical sound when pronouced that way.

-Sharon

[dissention]

Illume is the name of a candle brand and is, in fact, pronounced Ill-oo-may. However, the French word illume, to illuminate, is pronounced ill-oom. No may in it at all. :)

Personally, I think that the song would have been more powerful if she used the French word instead of the candle name. That way, instead of the candle's label, the lyrics would read as if the candle was actually telling her to illuminate, to light up. That's just my opinion though! :D

[dontlookdown]

Cliffdwelling from the old school aside,
this is by far one of Fleetwood Mac's strongest studio efforts.
For the first time in ages, instrumentally, Illume shows how fantastic John, Mick and Lindsey play together.
I also think it's one of the best examples from a studio track as to how this band can sound on stage - if they want too.

Listening to Illume really makes me long for the days when the band was just the band without all the extra musicians on stage. There was a moment on the '97 tour during Not That Funny when they managed to do this.

On the current tour I was annoyed by the muddled sound of the extra drummers and players. Too much for such a great simple band.

Anyway - I think Illume is certainly one of Stevie's strongest tracks on the album. Along with Thrown Down and Smile At You, it really makes you believe in Stevie as a writer.

Having said all that, I think Say You Will is a little bloated and I realized if they left off Silver Girl, Running Through The Garden, and Goodbye Baby, it would have been a much stronger album.

[sulamith]

dissention, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just bringing up a point, but I saw a piece on the House Beautiful show on A&E a couple of years ago that featured the owner and founder of the Illume candle company. She talked about how she started making them in her basement, etc.... Rags to riches, blah, blah.

She didn't pronounce it Ill-loo-may. She said Ill-loom. It's her company, so I figure she should know.

As far the French pronounciation, my friend is not French is probably very wrong!
lol!

-Sharon

[strandinthewind]

How timely of Tracey at www.burnish.net to post this article

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08012003/friday/friday.asp

in which Stevie discusses Illume and what was going on when she wrote it.

Thanks Tracey!!!!

[dissention]

Originally posted by sulamith
dissention, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just bringing up a point, but I saw a piece on the House Beautiful show on A&E a couple of years ago that featured the owner and founder of the Illume candle company. She talked about how she started making them in her basement, etc.... Rags to riches, blah, blah.

She didn't pronounce it Ill-loo-may. She said Ill-loom. It's her company, so I figure she should know.

As far the French pronounciation, my friend is not French is probably very wrong!
lol!

-Sharon

I saw a show on the Style network and they toured the shop and pronounced it as Ill-oo-may. LOL Who knows? :laugh: But I don't know how she claims it was rags to riches! The shop is on West Third in LA and is quite stunning. You'd have to already have some riches to open a shop in that area. The candles are amaaaaaaazing, though!

In either case, then, Stevie took some liberty with the pronunciation. Just as she did with Nag Champra! :laugh:

[ericktul]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Illume on the radio?:blob2: :blob1: :shocked:


The only song from the new album I have heard on the radio so far is Thrown Down, and that was during the after concert frenzy on KRXO in OKC. The whole idea was to echo the set list, but Thrown Down wasn't in the set list. Strange.

[elni]

I absolutely love 'Illume'!!
I couldn't stop playing that song over and over again,
right from the moment i heard it for the the first time.
It's like a chant, it swimming around in my head all the time.

[Sorcerer386]

For those who think this song is too sel-indulgent, Stevie has stated that she didn't want to, nor could write this song about how other people were feeling because she didn't know. Personally I think if she HAD tried to write a more universal song it would have just come out bland and a little too trendy...like she's trying to feed off of the tragedy -- for example the country song, can't remember the singer or the song name, but I know he wrote the song and put it out right away. I want to say Alan Jackson, but I could be wrong. Even South Park made fun of him for doing that. I'm glad Stevie took a very public event and made it personal for her.

[sparky]

I like this song, mostly for the production. Is it great ? Nope. Not in my opinion. As a fan, I can appreciate the imagery, and the vocal is top notch. But, the reaction I have had from people who don't really know the backstory is "What the hell is she talking about ?" And that is telling.

For a song to ascend to greatness, the listener shouldn't have to work so hard to understand it. Of course we can get it, but many people can't.

To say that someone is being too specific and too vague at the same time sounds impossible, but I think it describes the song.
Stevie does this a lot. The details are there - but they aren't details that serve to make the story accessible or universal.
We know all about the damned candle - we are told nothing about the trauma.

The details confuse rather than enlighten. I don't think the song is streamlined, concise storytelling. Which is fine. It still works for me. But I don't think it's close to being her finest work.
Too muddled. It needed editing and clarification.