Anyone else think Christine Quit FM for other reasons?

[diamondsnake]

Anyone else think that there is much more to Christine leaving the band? I think that something happened during the Dance tour that they aren't telling us. That is not to mean that they are not all on speaking terms or they hate each other or anything. I just mean that I think that Christine didn't just not like touring. Anyone else agree?

I think that Fall From Grace by Stevie, is about Christine McVie and maybe something happened between Stevie and Christine. But I don't really think so. I actually think that it is Lindsey who is mad at Christine because in an interview he said that "Christine burned some bridges" as the reason she isn't in the band. I don't know, does anyone else think I am on to something or am I crazy?

[The Catdancer]

I agree. I think something happened between Lindsey and Christine because he also said in an interview:"If Christine were to say she would come back, I'd say no at this point". I've read somewhere (I believe at Mick's board but the post got deleted) that, when Lindsey came back the whole band said:"Yes" except Christine. Than in the middle of the tour she said to the band:"It's either him (Lindsey) or me". We all know the answer to that statement......
But we musn't believe everything we read. Reporters have a way to turn one sentence into a drama piece William Shakespear could have written.

Take care ~ Debbie

[Merf]

Hmm, that's interesting.... I always thought the exchange between Lindsey and Mick on the "All Access" VH1 special when Lindsey asked Mick if he'd seen the flowers Christine had sent was a little.... odd..... just the way they were looking at each other and the way Mick said "she's a class act" like Lindsey needed to be reminded of that. By no means am I trying to start anything, but this thread just reminded me of that part of the VH1 special that was a bit off to me.

[David R]

I always thought the exchange between Lindsey and Mick on the "All Access" VH1 special when Lindsey asked Mick if he'd seen the flowers Christine had sent was a little.... odd..... just the way they were looking at each other and the way Mick said "she's a class act" like Lindsey needed to be reminded of that. By no means am I trying to start anything, but this thread just reminded me of that part of the VH1 special that was a bit off to me.

That bugged me too... it was like they were not on speaking terms (christine and the band)... if I remember correctly lindsey said she wrote "love the new album"... you would think they would have talked with christine on the phone or something... It really got me thinking they are not telling us something that happened between them and christine... eventhough it's not our business... but you know?...

[Johnny Stew]

In my opinion, any story about a falling out between Christine and Lindsey, or Christine and Stevie, is purely fabricated.

Remember, it was Christine who stated, in 'The Making Of Rumours,' that she, along with the others, felt that they were each irreplaceable.
I cannot imagine her suddenly stating that she wouldn't be in Fleetwood Mac if Lindsey came back... especially since Lindsey is someone with whom she has had a very fruitful musical partnership. One that was never rife with bitterness or competitiveness.

Quite simply, Christine is done with the rigors of touring, and Fleetwood Mac is making the absolute best of moving on without her in the band.

As for the seemingly small amount of communication between them, they've each mentioned this over the years... that they consider themselves to be an important part of each other's lives, but they're rarely in touch when they're not recording or touring.

So, again, I see nothing sinister about Christine no longer being in Fleetwood Mac, or the fact that they're not all talking on the phone once a week.

And now that Christine has seen that Fleetwood Mac is "standing on its own two legs," she might gladly make a guest appearance on any future Mac album, as she'd likely be less concerned now that they'd try to talk her into another tour.

Hey, she may even turn up to see the band while they're performing in the UK! :)

[macfan 57]

I think the main reason Christine quit was because she hated touring & life on the road. She had been sick of touring & playing live at least since the BTM tour. But, I do think something happened between Chris & Lindsey during the Dance tour. He has been insulting her and generally disrespecting her in most of the interviews he's done. Now, that could be because he's a little defensive because of negative reviews or problems with the album sales. It'll be interesting to see if she joins them in the U.K. for a few shows this fall or if she even shows up to see them.

[TwoTricky]

Huh...Interesting observation Merf..it did seem like Mick "chided" Lindsey during that exchage now that you mention it.

I still believe Christine was really just "tired of it all" at this point in her life and really does want to settle in a quiet domestic scene and record and tour on her own terms...after all these years, I think she deserves to...and a few years down the road...who knows??...Chris will be there for Fleetwood Mac's..."Farewell Reunion" Tour....Like the Eagles and Cher :p

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Hey, she may even turn up to see the band while they're performing in the UK! :)

My sentiments exactly!! I've thought this all along.

[EricBliss12345]

You gotta remember that she's what? 60? 61? That's not as old as you can possibly be but she's no spring chicken either. She's been in the business a long time, and the woman's been through a hell of a lot.

To be honest I think it's too much of a shock for her to deal with the stresses of touring without the drugs, booze, and cigarettes. Anybody remember "Homeward Bound?" A song she wrote in 1972 about hating being on the road and wanting to retire? That was 3 years before their breakthrough album and she was already sick of it! And notice that she had many vices from then up until the late 80s. She was obviously using substances to escape from something she didn't enjoy much. She's even said to Stevie "This is your passion. NOT mine." I'm sure she enjoyed music very much, but the road was just too much for her to cope with and in her older age she had just had enough.

I was in a band once that was somewhat enjoyable, but playing shows was usually a nightmare for me. There's just too much that could go wrong. Playing a gig at 1 AM is rough when you've been up since six in the morning and it's a weeknight and you work again the next morning. I couldn't imagine it being like that every day for months on end. Plus, I didn't care much for the music, which was really thrashy metal. People had actually told me I looked like I was taking a **** in my pants onstage I looked so miserable.

So, I drank a lot and smoked a lot of weed. There was a long period that I played most shows completely wrecked. I didn't just have a few, I blew 30 or 40 bucks at the bar. I really made a complete ass out of myself a few times. It sucks for me to even say this stuff. It got to the point where I was forgetting how songs went and playing different songs instead of the ones being played. Once the guitar player said something that wasn't to my liking after a bad show, so I started throwing equipment and cases all over the place. One show I thought it would be a good idea to get into a shouting match with the guitar player and drummer. After that, they told me I needed to slow down with the alcohol. So I did, no problem. Nobody wants to be a liability. When I started repeatedly playing shows sober I realized that I was more miserable than I had thought. Drunk I could deal with it, sober it was a major irritant. It wasn't long after that I quit, and they packed it in shortly after. I think things may have been similar with Christine.

As for the other stuff, I really don't know but if there was anything else involved, I'm sure it was trivial compared to her main reasons. I recently read an interview with Lindsey and Mick in Classic Rock magazine, and they both said that at first they held out hope that Christine would join in for sessions, but as time passed it looked less and less likely and that part way into making the album they realized that it just wasn't happening. So I really dont think theres THAT much animosity, if there is any. Maybe resentment from the boys in the band now, but I think it would only be resentment because they're bummed she isn't taking part.

Plus too, the woman has a ****ing CASTLE. At the age of 23, if I had a castle, I wouldn't be touring either! :laugh:

[WednesdaysChild]

Maybe Lindsey is mad at her for not wanting to tour...but hmmm, wasn't there a time when Mr. Buckingham didn't want to tour??? And Chris seemed okay with that, but when it's the other way around, it's not okay?

I don't think this fight or disagreement or WHATEVER was huge...I think she probably said, "Look I don't want to do this, and I'm not going to change." Mick, John and Stevie were probably like, "We'll miss you lots but we understand." I think Lindsey was the one who was very disappointed, almost angry.

[Janet]

I'm sorry, but I think something happened.

I read in one review how they were totally dumbfounded that FM didn't even say at one point of this concert tour while on stage " we miss you Christine"...not one mention. I mean she's been with the band since 1970, right? Thats a long time to be a part of something. She even helped with Time when Stevie and Lindsey were long gone.

She stuck by FM before they were the Rumours mega machine that S/L were a part of. If FM were just a mediocre band, would S/L be coming back..of course not.

Christine stuck by FM. She did...

And I think something happened. I think words were exchanged and now she's not welcome. Knock me over with a feather if she gets on stage in the UK, and if she does, I will gladly eat my words because I LOVE her and I want her back with them, but I really think stuff , big stuff has gone down. It's a shame.

[Merf]

Originally posted by Janet
She stuck by FM before they were the Rumours mega machine that S/L were a part of. If FM were just a mediocre band, would S/L be coming back..of course not.

Christine stuck by FM. She did...



I love Christine, and I wish she would hit the stage in the UK, and who knows, it may happen! But let's be honest, she's always been in the shadow of Stevie and Lindsey. It is S and L's addition to the band that brought mainstream success, along with Christine's many contributions of course. And I don't blame the woman for any kind of resentment-- she's only human, after all.

"The Dance" was touted as a huge deal in the press because "Lindsey was back" even though Christine and Stevie had both peaced out of the band after Behind the Mask. So Lindsey, as well as Stevie, were both always touted as more important than Christine, even though she's the one that contributed to their biggest radio/commercial hits.

I think something happened, they didn't even mention her once during the tour~ not even when they played World Turning and Don't Stop, not even on her birthday! You would think they'd give a brief passing mention, a quick "Happy Birthday to our dear friend Christine" or something....and I don't think it's Stevie and Christine with the feud, either. And we know it's probably not John, and Mick has always adored her, so.... who does that leave?

Another quick observation-- Did anyone else notice on the Very Best of FM documentary, when Lindsey talked about how Christine wasn't involved in this project, and the camera zoomed in on him, his eyes were very... I don't know, icy. Like grey. I just got the feeling that he wasn't comfortable talking about the situation and the cameraman zoomed in on his face cause he could feel that tension.

Maybe I'm grasping at straws, who knows..... just my two cents.

[darklinensuit]

I think Chris will NOT appear in England, regardless of whether angry words have been exchanged. The new Mac edition has worked hard to shake the "touring without Chris" monkey off its back in interviews. Bringing her onstage would be a step backwards so that all subsequent shows would again seem to be missing a key member. (That being said, for selfish reasons I would love to see her onstage with the band again.)

For the record, I do suspect tension between Chris and Lindsey, but nothing monstrous. I think she already wanted to stop touring, and he might have chided her for giving him a hard time for quitting in 1987, or more likely, he criticized the Mask and Time years as lacking substance without him. I think back to Mick's book, the day of the blow-out at Stevie's, where Chris is the one who says to him "What do you mean, 'do it all.'"

- Jake

[PenguinHead]

Originally posted by WednesdaysChild
Maybe Lindsey is mad at her for not wanting to tour...but hmmm, wasn't there a time when Mr. Buckingham didn't want to tour??? And Chris seemed okay with that, but when it's the other way around, it's not okay?

I don't think this fight or disagreement or WHATEVER was huge...I think she probably said, "Look I don't want to do this, and I'm not going to change." Mick, John and Stevie were probably like, "We'll miss you lots but we understand." I think Lindsey was the one who was very disappointed, almost angry.


Oh! Come on! It's one thing to speculate about things...but give them all a little bit more credit for being higher-minded and sophisticated. The band was angry with Lindsey when he didn't want to tour --- only because they had just made the Tango in the Night album, and the assumption was that they would tour to promote it.

The situation with Christine was much different. Why the hell would Lindsey be upset with Christine for opting out the album and tour? It's not like she participated in the album and then decided not to tour.

That is a childish assumption (that of drama queens) which holds no logic whatsoever. We all know Lindsey would rather be on his own, than carry the baggage of a whole group. Least now he has realized that he needs the band almost as much as they need him.

[PenguinHead]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by darklinensuit
[B]I think Chris will NOT appear in England, regardless of whether angry words have been exchanged. The new Mac edition has worked hard to shake the "touring without Chris" monkey off its back in interviews. Bringing her onstage would be a step backwards so that all subsequent shows would again seem to be missing a key member. (That being said, for selfish reasons I would love to see her onstage with the band again.)[QUOTE][

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thankfully there are fans here who are living in the real world!

[WednesdaysChild]

PenguinHead...

I don't know if this was your intention or not, but the way you quoted me and then responded to my post felt as if you were attacking my idea...which was me just throwing something out there...

Meredith (Merf) said something pretty similar in her comments as well...along with noticing how strange Lindsey looks when you mention the name Christine.

I don't think I'm a drama queen and I don't believe my post was speculating a dramatic fight or anything. Sorry I got my facts wrong and wrongly compared the TITN fight with whatever we think might have happened during the making of SYW. Who knows why Lindsey may or may not have gotten mad at Chris? We don't and that is why we speculate...no one should be attacking anyone's speculations unless they are totally absurd (like, Christine was abducted by aliens and isn't really in England) OR they have legitimate proof (magazine articles, etc.).

Please don't call me or my posts "childish" either. All posts are just the ideas of the poster.

Thank you.

[The Catdancer]

I thought it was odd that the last Greatest Hits wasn't dedicated to Chris. They did that with the first one (the green cover), they dedicated it to Lindsey. Why didn't they dedicate the last one to Chris????

[CarneVaca]

Chris quit the band because she was sick of touring and she was sick of this particular group of people. That was my theory the day the Dance tour was cut short and that is my theory now. There has been no evidence whatsoever that a showdown took place. Chris told the band she had had enough, and they all tried to change her mind. If anything, Lindsey was the most understanding one, according to some published reports. I recall reading somewhere that he said Christine was the one who was most supportive when he quit, and when she decided to leave he was supportive too because he could sympathize with her.

Unless Christine comes out and says exactly why she quit, we may never find out. Or we may just have to accept that her being tired of touring was the real reason.

[WednesdaysChild]

Maybe they aren't really talking about her because she's asked them not to? To leave her alone and out of it? That the tour shouldn't be about missing her?

Just some ideas...

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Chris quit the band because she was sick of touring and she was sick of this particular group of people. That was my theory the day the Dance tour was cut short and that is my theory now.I don't know, Christine has always spoken so warmly and lovingly towards these four people, I have a hard time imagining her being "sick of them."

Christine and Lindsey have always gotten along very well, and their admiration and respect for each other is notable.

And though they drifted apart somewhat in the '80s and early '90s, during the 'Dance' tour Christine was once again talking about what a wonderful lady Stevie was to be around, and that her sense of humour (which Christine said she had missed) had returned.

Then there's John & Mick... who are the dearest to Christine's heart. Her love for them have kept her coming back to Fleetwood Mac for decades after she originally wanted to retire.

Sure, the remaining members might have had some hurt feelings when she decided to leave the band, but I doubt they have any animosity towards her whatsoever, or she towards them. :)


(Oh, and I definitely agree with those who feel it's highly unlikely that she would get up on stage to perform with Fleetwood Mac while they're touring the UK, but I definitely think she'd go to see one of the shows and visit the band backstage.)

[PenguinHead]

Originally posted by WednesdaysChild
PenguinHead...
I don't know if this was your intention or not, but the way you quoted me and then responded to my post felt as if you were attacking my idea...which was me just throwing something out there...

My apologies WednesdaysChild. You're right! Some of my language was poorly choosen. What I was trying to say that -- despite the band's history of drama, they have matured considerably, and the drama has certainly waned. Yet still, all these years later the band members themselves like to play off their tumultuous past...but it is just that....the past!

Of course many newer fans like to wildly infuse a soap opera-like speculation on everything that happens now. I guess their personal lifes don't hold as much interest to me as does their music.

[WednesdaysChild]

Thank you very much, Penguin Head! Apology accepted. :)

I am a newer fan...so I wasn't around when all the "real" drama took place. I have to listen to stories and read articles to try and figure out what happened. From what I've heard and read, I think they've come a LONG way from how they used to be...but something could have happened--they are human and have personalities.

[blinker12]

I think she really did leave for the simple reason that she was sick of touring. But I also think Lindsey is angry at her _ probably for leaving, maybe for something else. Of all the members, he's the only one who's NEVER (correct me if I'm wrong) expressed any kind of regret that she's no longer with the band. He always says (paraphrasing here) that her departure from the band was actually a good thing, because it gave him, John and Mick more room to play.
Stevie, on the other hand, has said she genuinely misses Christine.

[BellaDonnaGypsy]

If the band sat around dwelling on the fact that Christine has left, it would get them nowhere. Perhaps Lindsey has simply moved on in order to be able to deal with the current situation. If Christine sent them flowers at the beginning of the tour, I think it hints that there are no bad feelings on her part. I mean, what do you want Lindsey to do? Start sobbing? He just wants to get on with the music.

Laura.

[CarneVaca]

Lindsey is not dancing with joy because she left. How can anyone get that from what he has said? He simply says that her departure opened up different opportunities and challenges. As a musician, songwriter and producer, he has embraced these opportunities and challenges.

If Christine decides to tour to promote her upcoming album, then we may have some justification for thinking that she did not want to tour with this particular group of people. Which is my hunch, but I am open to the very real possibility she was just tired of the road.

[Gail]

I think that after the Dance tour she was really tired. She's been quoted as saying that she doesn't sleep well on the road and so was drinking more than was good for her which then made her feel worse. I don't think she could face Europe as well.

I imagine that about that time her marriage was either breaking up or in difficulties.

She probably woke up one morning and thought - I'm sick of this, I'm sick of him (or he's sick of me) I don't want to do this anymore.

We've all felt like that at some point in our lives the difference is she's got oodles of money and can just walk away.

She can home and it's only now that she could even think about recording again.

I'm not sure if any one will want to release it though. She will have to promote it and although she doesn't necessarily have to tour, some interviews will have to be done - record companies will want to protect their investment.

I hope she does release something - I miss her not being about.

Perhaps she'll come on right at the end of the Earls Court concert (the one I'm going to naturally) and sing Songbird. (It's around this time that I generally wake up)

Gail

[Rainman]

Just a quick take on Lindsey's "burning bridges" comment. I always took this to mean, not that Christine had burned relationships, but had taken steps in her life that had committed her to not work with the band again.

I really don't think there's much more to her departure other than simply being tired of the lifestyle. It's always seemed clear that she bailed because of burnout. Heck, just about everyone gets burned out on a demanding career sooner or later.

[PenguinHead]

I can't wait to hear her new album! Any Rumours on who will be playing on it or who is producing it? She had no problem attracting some great musicians on her last solo album...Lindsey Buckingham, Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, etc...

I bet this album will be great, and much more dynamic than her rather bland (but good!) Christine McVie album. I speculate that she certainly won't do a full-blown tour, but will possibly perform some carefully chosen shows in order to get maximum exposure, sort of in the same manner as The Dance MTV show.

[wondergirl9847]

I remember hearing Billy Burnette on the radio a few months ago talking about playing on Christine's album. I don't remember exactly what he said, just that he was playing on it. :)

[blinker12]

If the band sat around dwelling on the fact that Christine has left, it would get them nowhere. Perhaps Lindsey has simply moved on in order to be able to deal with the current situation. If Christine sent them flowers at the beginning of the tour, I think it hints that there are no bad feelings on her part. I mean, what do you want Lindsey to do? Start sobbing? He just wants to get on with the music.

No, I don't want him to sob... But you might expect that he'd say *something* along the lines of, "Yeah, it's too bad Christine's not with us anymore. I miss her, but she had to do what she had to do, yada yada."
It strikes me as a little odd that he hasn't said anything along those lines (that I can recall), because I've always gotten the impression in the past that he genuinely respects Christine's musicianship and songwriting. But now all he talks about is how her absence is an opportunity? :shrug:
Just something that's caused me to raise an eyebrow. As someone else pointed out, we'll probably never know the whole truth.

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by BellaDonnaGypsy
If the band sat around dwelling on the fact that Christine has left, it would get them nowhere. Perhaps Lindsey has simply moved on in order to be able to deal with the current situation. If Christine sent them flowers at the beginning of the tour, I think it hints that there are no bad feelings on her part. I mean, what do you want Lindsey to do? Start sobbing? He just wants to get on with the music.

Laura.

yeah, but he's not being very sensitive about his phrasing. I mean, I was a little shocked when he made those comments about being happy now that he has "33% more room to maneuver" and how the band is much more "aggressive" and "masculine" now that Christine is gone. Well, sure, they are and yes he has "more room to maneuver" but the way he's coming across in the press is like he's just been waiting for the day that one of these broads would leave so that he could "manuever" all over the place. I'm sure he doesn't really think this, but that's the way he sounds . He sounds like he's been scorned by the way he becomes all defensive when Christine's name is menitoned...leads me to believe something went on between the two of them behind the scenes.

[Sarah]

In some interview, Lindsey mentioned something about "as much as we miss chris personally, nothing is missing musically" ..

A little slap in the face to her music, but.. he did say that they missed her as a person, so I guess it was the tired of touring issue.

[4Buck]

I think Christine ~ at 60 ~ would rob the bank of its vitality on their SYW tour.

Not everyone has the energy of 60 year-old Mick Fleetwood!

Chris wasn't exactly full of vigor duirng The Dance. And did anyone else notice that Buckingham was playing most of her instrumental parts on his guitar (e.g.. on "Everywhere.") on this MTV special?

Plus, even though Christine was the biggest Fleetwood Mac hitmaker, she didn't seem to be getting overwhelming audience applause to her classics and new numbers during "The Dance," the way Nicks and Buckingham did.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by cliffdweller
Well, sure, they are and yes he has "more room to maneuver" but the way he's coming across in the press is like he's just been waiting for the day that one of these broads would leave so that he could "manuever" all over the place.

Now if we could only get rid of the other one.... That's 25 percent on top of the other 33. :laugh:

[WednesdaysChild]

Originally posted by 4Buck


Not everyone has the energy of 60 year-old Mick Fleetwood!



Is he really 60? I thought the papers made a mistake on his birthday...and he's really only 56 or so...

[4Buck]

M. Fleetwood is 60. He's been "fabricating" about his age.

Gives him more time in his eyes, I guess. If his energy level can pass for that, then what-the-hey?

This way Buckingham can say "we're out to prove that a band in their 50s can play the best music of their career." :)

[WednesdaysChild]

Hahaha...leave it to Mick. He's a shady character, eh? :laugh: