sorry but say you will suck.

[tommer]

today was the 1st time i heard Say You Will on the radio here, it was SO out of tune from what radio sounds like here these days, i felt as if the music editor is just doing a favour to the band and some very few fans, reminded me of the times when i was on the radio myself, playing Reconsider Me as if i could make it a hit with my own bare hands :distress:
shoot me, but i don't like this song. i usually skip it when i play the album, and it doesn't sound any better on the radio.
yeah, sure it's catchy, but it's catchy in the cheapest way (being over-repetative).
to me, stevie is the greatest writer ever. i admire her complexed writing structures and touching lyrics, SYW includes some of her best work ever, and an inspired production by lindsey to make it into some of the best songs i listened to in my lifetime. but this particular song lacks all those qualities.
so why oh why did they have to release such a simplistic, uninspired old fashion cliche' song as a single? this song's not what fleetwood mac stands for, and surely not what stevie nicks stands for.

[wondergirl9847]

It's one of my least faves on the album too, it's WAY too repetitive, and when it came up at the concert, I groaned audibly. LOL It's just, I don't know....it's too sugary or something, too not Stevie. LOL Does that make ANY sense? I just don't care for it that much, YES, it's EXTREMELY catchy, but like you say, TOO catchy.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

It's just a simple and fun song, and that's what I love about it. It's not at all bogged down by werid imagery, heavy lyrics or contrived melodies like some Stevie's songs are sometimes, thus rendering them less radio friendly. SYW is lighthearted and entertaining, and that's really what makes a good pop song. :)

But I understand where you're coming from too. Just out of curiosity, which of her contributions would you have selected as a single instead? The only one I can think of is Thrown Down.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
It's just a simple and fun song, and that's what I love about it. It's not at all bogged down by werid imagery, heavy lyrics or contrived melodies like some Stevie's songs are sometimes, thus rendering them less radio friendly.

Well, IMO, her wierd, freaky songs are her BEST songs, not the "pop fluff" like SYW. GDW, Rhiannon are two that pop into my head as being two of the most played SN songs on the radio, and they have wierd imagery and lyrics. I like Stevie more when she's darker, I guess. :shrug: Illume springs to mind, I LOVE that song!!

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Well, IMO, her wierd, freaky songs are her BEST songs, not the "pop fluff" like SYW.

I'm with you there! That's what most Stevie fans like too, I'd say. I'm just saying, for the radio market the way it is today, I think SYW was an OK choice. (Illume is my one of my favorite Stevie songs from the album too!)

[dissention]

I think SYW is one of the more commercial songs on the album and I think it sounds grat on the readio, whereas Thrown Down would be so out of place. TD isn't a good candidate for radio, IMO. I love SYW; very good song compared to what's out these days! EFO would be great choice for a single...:laugh:

[tommer]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
Just out of curiosity, which of her contributions would you have selected as a single instead? The only one I can think of is Thrown Down.
both Thrown Down and Destiny Rules are catchy, inspired and "stevie" enough, frankly, i don't believe the band can make a significant chart entry these days, their main goal should be to sound innovative and respectable. get those who can appreciate good music buy the album, the others would sattle for shania anyway.

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
WAY too repetitive, and when it came up at the concert, I groaned audibly. LOL It's just, I don't know....it's too sugary or something, too not Stevie. LOL Does that make ANY sense?
you make perfect sense.
imagine for a minute some stupid boy band doing Silver Springs... too strange... now imagine that same lame boy band doing Say You Will. way too belivable.

[PenguinHead]

Hey! No need to say your sorry! Thanks for speaking your mind. Hold your apologies for something else. I respect that you can come out and bluntly state how you feel.

If anyone has the authority to criticize the band, better it be someone who is a fan and has a substantial knowledge of the band. That makes the criticism more credible.

Say You Will, aside from being one of most insipid album titles in the history of the band, is indeed an extremely light-weight "please the masses" type of song. It's a song that will quickly be forgotten because it's lighter than air...I bet we won't see them performing it in future tours.

I like the song. It offends no one. Appeals to cross-generations (intended for broader market appeal). The elementary school-like redundancy and simplicity of the chorus is extremely (and annoyingly) infectious. Yet, for Stevie, it seems somewhat contrived. Thankfully some of her other Say You Will songs carry a bit more weight.

[darklinensuit]

I like the song, but I'm with Christy in that my favorite Stevie songs are her darker songs. I find this song bouncier than Stevie's typical songs in a Paper Doll sort of way. I know I'll be accused of defending Stevie to the extreme, which is not my purpose, but I think the bounciness comes mostly from the production. I doubt Stevie wrote the song with this much bounce, if the original version had her typical alone at the piano sound. That doesn't mean I'm blaming Lindsey for the commercial sound of the production; for all I know Stevie could have pushed for this sound. Hope this makes sense.
One thing I will give Stevie credit for is that this song works well with her mature voice. As commercial as the final version of this song might sound, I'm glad she's not attempting to go commercial with her vocals, with breathy Mariah/Whitney/Christina/Faith key changes, etc.
One more thing. Thrown Down sounds to me like something off Bonnie Raitt's Nick of Time album, which I don't own but got so much acclaim over ten years ago. Again, it's the drums and production. Destiny Rules I can't imagine doing well on the charts. It's grown on me quite a bit, but I still think it's Stevie's worst on the album (yes, including SG).

- Jake

[dontlookdown]

To me, Say You Will sort of just gives the record execs want they want. Sure it's a catchy unoffensive song. But yeah, there's nothing interesting about it. I have to admit, when I bought the cd and played it in the car for a first listen as I drove around LA, I winced at the repetition of the chorus.
But - I think given, the rest of the material - it was probably Stevie's effort at providing at least one big potential radio hit. Sort of like R.E.M.s "Stand" or some of U2's recent singles.
It actually reminds me of some of Stevie's rather lightweight recent singles like "Everyday" and "Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind" or even "Talk to Me".

I wish the band would just bow out of the single efforts and just focus on good albums. Fleetwood Mac, like most great bands has no business being played on today's commercial radio. Radio is corporate fueled and has no interest in bands as artists. The only station I know of in the country these days that still respects musicianship and band artistry is KCRW in Santa Monica. And yes, they have been playing cuts off Say You Will. I've heard "Say Goodbye" as well as several others played often since April.

Forget about the radio, the billboard charts, and just enjoy Fleetwood Mac for their music and the shows. They know their fan base - which by the way - has grown enormously because of The Dance album and tour. We are a small core fan base of about four million. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Tusk57]

I too like Stevie's darker songs the best. However, that being said, I also like Say You Will as well. I can't really put my finger on exactly why, but I do. It could be the catchy chorus or maybe the Lindsey guitar solo (I like the radio version better), or maybe it's those darn kids at the end! They are playing it out here quite a bit lately which is a good sign. Thrown Down and RTTG are the other two Stevie songs which would make for good radio.

[SweetGirl]

I like the song, but I'm with Christy in that my favorite Stevie songs are her darker songs.

I agree. The darker songs seem to be more emotionally packed. They give the listener something more personal of Stevie and her life experiences.
I love those.

[David R]

I like the song, the live version more though. To me it seems like Stevie wanted a "fun & simple" kind of like a "Christine" song. You know generally happy and fun...

[Cammie]

:( SYW is a sorry album title for an all male band
with one woman singer!!!Twist of Fate sounds
so much more mature!!! SYW the song... is too
wordy and trying too hard to be cutsey! Do Get
on with the dark dramatic stuff Stevie...(JMHO!)

"Running Thru the Garden" is nicely sinister!:D

[Sorcerer386]

The only problem I can see with people saying SYW is too poppy and not very "Fleetwood Mac sounding" is that, I think if Christine were on the album and had written this song, it would be praised more. I mean, nothing's more repetitive than Hold Me. So to say Say You Will isn't Fleetwood Mac sounding isn't quite right to me, considering most reviewers always bring up the fact that they were pioneers of the "California pop sound." And, if Christine were on the album, we would have many more songs like this. I really like Say You Will and it's a great break from the heavy overtones the album has...but I do agree I wouldn't have chosen it as a single. I think FM needed a second single to wow the audience...like Everybody Finds Out. Something with more energy, and more of a build to it. Say You Will may not be very Stevie-like, but it's definitely got that California pop sound. Every time I listen to the opening I picture driving down the road through palm trees in a convertible, the CA sun shining down. In fact, this song reminds me kind of Soak up the Sun by Sheryl Crow. Just my opinions on the song.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Sorcerer386
The only problem I can see with people saying SYW is too poppy and not very "Fleetwood Mac sounding" is that, I think if Christine were on the album and had written this song, it would be praised more. I mean, nothing's more repetitive than Hold Me. So to say Say You Will isn't Fleetwood Mac sounding isn't quite right to me, considering most reviewers always bring up the fact that they were pioneers of the "California pop sound." And, if Christine were on the album, we would have many more songs like this. I really like Say You Will and it's a great break from the heavy overtones the album has...but I do agree I wouldn't have chosen it as a single. I think FM needed a second single to wow the audience...like Everybody Finds Out. Something with more energy, and more of a build to it. Say You Will may not be very Stevie-like, but it's definitely got that California pop sound. Every time I listen to the opening I picture driving down the road through palm trees in a convertible, the CA sun shining down. In fact, this song reminds me kind of Soak up the Sun by Sheryl Crow. Just my opinions on the song.

I totally agree the song SYW is very similar to one CM would have written musically. I cannot, however, ever see CM writing "fever dance" or "electricity of love" but you never know :laugh: Also, the "happy" organ sound beaming through and high above the chorus at the end along with the YMLF and SYL sound and timing similarity to SYW seemingly are almost a tribute to CM. Stevie has said SYW and the whole dance thing are about a movie she saw or a book she read, but she also said is is her tribute somehow to CM. I think Stevie meant it is her tribute to CM's sound, which to me it clearly has. I also agree this song could have been on and fit in with any FM in the past as a CM song.

My $0.02. :D

[Johnny Stew]

I quite like the song "Say You Will," and I've grown to appreciate it as the album's title (I had originally lobbied for 'Twist Of Fate,' but I do find that an extremely cliched album title now).

Just like Justin said, Fleetwood Mac IS a pop-rock band, and people expect certain things when they buy a Mac album.
We'll always have moments where they truly rock out, or do something quirky and left-of-center... as those are things that make FM who they are... but we need those more pop elements too, to balance everything out, because *that* is who FM is also.

Stevie has said that when she came off of the 'TISL' tour and listened to what the band had, she knew that she needed to write a few more songs to go with them.
Everyone in the band has talked about their sound being a lot more aggressive now that Christine isn't a part of the group, so I'm sure Stevie felt the need to step up to bat, and contribute some "lighter," less-heavy songs... so she wrote "Say You Will," and "Silver Girl" (along with "Destiny Rules," and "Illume," of course).

Again, like Justin said, the pop niche would have historically been filled by Christine, but without her there, I think Stevie did a terrific job of filling in, while putting her own unique style on that type of song.

I don't think "Say You Will" is a better song than "Thrown Down" or "Destiny Rules," but I do love it, and I think it's a terrific Summer single, fitting quite comfortably and happily alongside some of Fleetwood Mac's catchiest singles... "Say You Love Me," "You Make Loving Fun," "Hold Me," "Little Lies," and "Everywhere."

[Sarah]

I like Say You Will, and I think the edit sounds good on the radio, but.. I do wish it would have been Everybody Finds Out. I'm in love with that song.

I have to disagree with the majority- my favorite Stevie songs are not her darkest/most meaningful. Illume is my least favorite song on this album.. to my ears, it just feels out of place. (As does Silver Girl.) But you know, Stevie's songs all have meaning to her, so who am I to say it's meaningless and pop-y just to be pop?


Sarah

[PenguinHead]

While Say You Will may not be the most provocative album title, thankfully they didn't name it Twist of Fate!!!!! Can there be a more unimaginable, well-worn cliched phrase? I'll forgive Lindsey for using it for a song title. But it seems so cheap as an album title. When I hear "Twist of Fate," I think it sounds like the throw-away title of some cheezy 1980's hair band. Chances are, it probably is! Does anyone else get what I mean by that?

[sarahw]

I really like the title Say You Will......wasn't Twist of Fate an Olivia Newton John song? It sounds too cheesy to me....I also really like the song itself....it does remind me of Christine's lighter style....

Johnny Stew I also agree it is a great summer song.....in fact I heard it today while lying on the beach and had to stop myself from singing along since someone surely would have thrown sand at me....

One more thing to add....I really enjoy this board...seeing how people can post a seemingly negative thought and not be banned or have everyone come out of the woodwork and verbally assault you...I sometimes lurk "over there" and it is all mindless garbage.

[Tusk57]

I agree that Twist of Fate would have been a bad album title, but Say You Will isn't much better, although it's growing on me. Sarah, I also think that Illume and Silver Girl are Stevie's weakest songs. Illume never gets going with five minutes of bongo drums or whatever and Silver Girl rivals that song she did on Tango....Welcome to the Room, Sara and/or When I See You Again. Kind of boring to me. Most of the time though, Stevie hits a homerun. :)

[David R]

I am pretty sure that "Say you will" is about Christine. The lyrics say everything.

"Say you will, say you will
Give me one more chance
At least give me time to change your mind
That always seems to heal the wounds
If I can get you to dance"

I think the dance reference is about "The Dance" tour. I think the song is about the band/Stevie wanting Christine to be apart of the album and tour. Also to name the actual album "Say you will" was cool I thought, maybe also as a "tribute" to Christine?

[TwoTricky]

I'm not a big fan of the "pop" music played on the radio...(hell, i'm not a big fan of radio) but I understand that the songs they play on the radio are more or less used to promote artists....and in order to do that you do have to appeal to the masses.

When U-2 released "With or Without You" (talk about repetitive!) I bought the album "The Joshua Tree"..."With or Without You" is my least favorite but the album is one that I STILL play to this day...and my favorite tracks are the ones that NEVER got any radio play...they're gems!! (One Tree Hill, Red Hill Mining Town, Exit)

Keeping that in mind, Say You Will will bring in a new crop of fans, who not only enjoy the "pop" songs but who will also be "blown away" by those "hidden treasures" (Illume, Thrown Down, etc.)

And, Call me crazy but I LOVE "Welcome to the Room Sara"...clearly a depiction of Stevie's stint at Betty Ford....very personal, very dark and if I may quote Mick Fleetwood...."extremely moving when understood in this context."

[blackdove]

[i]Originally posted by TwoTricky

And, Call me crazy but I LOVE "Welcome to the Room Sara"...clearly a depiction of Stevie's stint at Betty Ford....very personal, very dark and if I may quote Mick Fleetwood...."extremely moving when understood in this context." [/B]

You're not crazy at all...I love that song very much (along with When I see you again...both very emotive songs :nod: ).

Yes, SYW it a lite weight pop song, nothing wrong with that but not my cup of tea really. I think RTTG would have been a great single, catchy rock song with a darker side to it too, one of the best Stevie rockin out tunes in ages IMO.

Love and happiness from Sarah
:angel:

[WednesdaysChild]

Originally posted by TwoTricky
And, Call me crazy but I LOVE "Welcome to the Room Sara"...clearly a depiction of Stevie's stint at Betty Ford....very personal, very dark and if I may quote Mick Fleetwood...."extremely moving when understood in this context."

You aren't crazy. I also love that song because if you are a true Stevie/FM fan, you know what the song is really about and you are able to see inside her, how she felt and what she went through during that time. The average listener would probably say, "Okay, interesting song...next."

"Well you held her prisoner
And after all these years
Well as well as you knew her"

The vocals on that part are so raw and so full of Stevie's anger over allowing herself to lose control to drugs and the whole mess with Front Line Management (don't know what really happened, got my info from the Ledge interpretations!).

[CarneVaca]

Interesting observations by Tommer in the original post. I haven't heard the Say You Will single, though I like the album cut well enough. It's a song that grew on me, and it has the most recognizable FM-type guitar lead, in addition to WTCT.

I've seen some comments about production on this thread, which is one of the things I've thought a lot about since getting the album. From a production standpoint, this album has a basic lack of cohesion that I'm finding hard to ignore. Except for Tusk, all other FM albums with this lineup have an identifiable production voice. There is uniformity in Tango, Rumours, Mirage and the white album. Tusk is the exception that worked. I'm not sure it's working here.

When I first heard things like Gotta Get Away, Steal Your Heart Away, Bleed to Love Her, the studio versions of My Little Demon and The Singer Not the Song, I thought: Great, though slightly too polished, this is a pretty contemporary sound that might play well in today's market. A lot of acoustic guitars, some nice melodies. I even remember resisting Say Goodbye and Red Rover at first. The effects seemed overdone. Of course, I love the songs now.

I wonder, though, if someone at a listening station or playing the 30-second low-quality clip on the web isn't just going to skip Red Rover and Say Goodbye or Illume even, thinking they're too weird. I mean, if I as a long-time fan had to get used to them...

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else, but this "messy" production approach has been distracting to me. I certainly don't listen to the album as much as I had expected. Probably way too much time elapsed while recording these songs for there to be a cohesive sound. Some of the tracks I mentioned above were probably recorded in the same time period, hence the similarity of sound. I like the straightforward beauty of Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed to Love Her, even though I've argued they should not have been included. However, if Lindsey had used that sound on more songs, especially the Stevie stuff that sounds cheesy to me -- Running through the Garden, Silver Girl -- the whole album might resonate more.

[kak125]

I just heard Say You Will on 92.9 in Pittsburgh, PA for the first time on the radio. I just love the new version and I think it sounds even better than the album version. I think this is a nice pop song but wish they would have cut the kids out at the end. I still think that Thrown Down is the best choice for a single. They should remix EFO and release that as a maxi single. It has club hit written all over it. I thought Say You Will sounded so good on the radio though. It fit in perfectly.

[WednesdaysChild]

I heard SYW twice on Saturday--2 different radio stations. I was psyched to hear it--it IS getting airtime! Yesterday, I was all over the dial and didn't hear it, although when the DJ said something about playing FM after the commercial, I kept it there, only to hear GDW (which isn't played THAT often around me). This morning I heard Peacekeeper...so they are still getting airtime of the new songs. They need to keep it up, though!

Stations I heard SYW on:

96.1 (it's a Long Island station, but I get it in Southern CT)
97.5 (ditto)

Stations that play Peacekeeper:

105.9 (Hartford, CT station)

[WindingRoad]

I heard SYW last week while eating lunch in a TGI Friday's restaurant. I was kinda surprised, pleasantly. Bad thing was, I had this horrible urge to ask my mother to please stop talking while I listen to the music :laugh:

I have mixed feelings about SYW the song. I think the first verse drags horribly. Stevie sings in a monotone that is grating and irritating, makes me cringe. The song picks up after that and I like it.

I would not have picked it as a single. I'd have gone with Smile At You. It grabs me right from the beginning..."Go on save yourself, leave the key here", really strong vocal, the kind of Stevie I like. And I love the chorus. I know I "should have turned away and ran" lots of times in my life for many different reasons. I love the music more than the lyrics, kinda haunting feel in the chorus.

Don't know how much pop appeal it would have, but it works for me! :D

susieq :wavey:

[ericktul]

Originally posted by trackaghost
I do like SYW the song but Stevie's darker songs are definitely her best.
I think Stevie is afraid to be too uncommercial but really she needs someone to push her to let go and just be herself without worrying if people will like it or if it will sell. That is one album I really want to hear. :nod:


~Sharon~


I didn't care for SYW when I first got the album. In my mind, Thrown Down or Destiny Rules could also be nice radio-friendly songs also. But, I realize there's nothing wrong with a spoonful of sugar now and then. I see SYW as being to this album what Angel was to Tusk. Kind of Stevie's counterbalance to the dark and innovative music.

And what's all of this I've been reading about Stevie's music meaning something only if it's dark? Most of my favorite Stevie songs have little for no darkness to them at all. She can write a good upbeat song with the best of them!