Buying Fleetwood Mac music at Wal Mart

[dontlookdown]

Howdy folks,

this is sort of a political rant but I wanted to throw in my two cents for those that are interested. Every once in a while I notice fans talking about purchasing music at Wal-Mart. Most of you are probably aware of Wal-Mart's behavior toward artists but if not - here goes.

A few years back, just as Sheryl Crow was getting national attention, Wal-Mart refused to carry one of her records because in her lyrics she pointed out, in a subtle way, that the store has no problem selling guns and bullets to customers. (They also refuse to sell birth control pills in the Wal-Marts that have pharmacies - but that's another story. Guns are good, birth control isn't. Yikes).
Just last year Wal-Mart refused to sell Ben Folds fantastic live album because you could see a fan on the cover extending his middle finger toward the photographer. They told the record company to design a new cover and then they would offer it to customers.
As Rhino readies Buckingham Nicks for a fall release - we can only assume that Wal-Mart will refuse to sell it because - it features nudity on the cover.
If you have an alternative to Wal-Mart - such as Tower, Barnes + Noble, or hopefully, a good independent record store, please buy your Fleetwood Mac music there instead of Wal-Mart.
Just because we have a president who has created an atmosphere of fear across the country doesn't mean we should tolerate the same thing from American corporations. Let artists release music how they see fit. It's up to us to decide if we want to purchase it or not.

[DrummerDeanna]

Muy interesante! Well, I don't buy music from Wal-Mart because I hate that they sell censored versions of stuff....as I get older and open my eyes more I start to see what corporations such as Wal-Mart are doing to this country....I try not to buy music/movies from there but for reasons other than those you mentioned...lol..I just hate "hell-mart"

[ricohv]

I couldn't agree more! But I wonder if they would really consider it nudity? It is sort of more suggested nudity. Aren't nipples the determining factor, i.e. if you can see one they are nude, if not (a la Wendy O'Williams of the Plasmatics clever use of two small strips of black electrical tape-remember that?!?) they are not nude.
Oh yeah, most importantly, Rhino is releasing BuckinghamNicks on CD? How did i miss that?
*Ricoh*

[wetcamelfood]

WM probably won't stock the remastered BN when it comes out anyways as they seem to only want to stock top 40 stuff (or y'know, stuff that they KNOW WILL get sales, like say "Rumours", SYW, etc.), I just don't think they would see the "$" in BN that stores/chains more specialist (i.e. with more knowledge about music itself and therefore knowing the story behind it) like Tower, etc. would/do.

As crazy as they are about their censoring, I honestly don't think they'd refuse to stock the BN reissue due to the cover (if they will/do stock it), it's rather tame by today's standards and technically isn't "nude" (by US culture standards anyways) in that there's no (female) nipples, bum cracks or pubes showing so... JMHO though. :)

Besides, even if they do stock it, I won't buy it there anyways as my local WM don't get new releases the day they come out and that's no good! I need to get mine the day it's out (or if I can't, I'll order it online the day of release). :)

John

[rcb77]

Amen! I rarely ever even set foot in a Wal-Mart, mostly because of their corporate policies. The thought police are everywhere these days, and I hope people start realizing it before the next election, otherwise we'll be in deep $#!+.
But enought about that, how do we know for sure that BN is being released this fall? The first time I heard it was being released soon was in 1996, and I've probably heard it a dozen times since. I'm not saying you guys aren't telling the truth, I'm just a little skeptical after being teased by the possibility for the past 7 years. ;)

[ryan8472]

I never really liked Wal-Mart.The one closest to where I live is a dump; the clothing is all over the floor, and lots of stuff is already opened! I did buy the white album there however because it was cheaper than at any other store I saw it in. I never knew that they only sold censored material until right now, so I guess this is just another reason not to shop there anymore. I totally disagree with them selling guns too (the same reason I hate K-Mart). As for Buckingham Nicks being censored, I don't think that it will be. I don't think there's anything wrong with the cover; it isn't distasteful or revealing, so I don't see why anyone would want to change it.

[sulamith]

I never buy anything at Walmart. I haven't been in one in over three years. I will gladly drive past one in favor of a Target or an independent store any day of the week.

Nasty, evil places they are, full of all kinds of bad energies. A shopping trip there is like a trip to another planet, hence I have dubbed people who frequent Walmart as "Walmartians", because well.......... they just seem to be on a totally different wavelength than those of us who see that institution for what it is.

I don't need any household item bad enough to endure what Walmart puts me through! Inept sales clerks, tons of cheap crap I don't need, idiots having conversations in the aisles oblivious to those of us who wish to get what we need and get the hell out, waiting in line to pay among a sea of enourmous asses clad in those horrible matchy-matchy appliqued & embroidered outfits that no grown woman should be caught dead in..........ARRGH!!!

Bleck.

Don't you worry about me buying my FM among the Walmartians.
Eh, eh....it ain't gonna happen, sister!


-Sharon

[estranged4life]

but Wal-Fart won't carry the uncensored version of Metallica's "St.Anger" but they do carry the Metallica DVD boxed set"Live ****: Binge & Purge" which has a "R rated" sticker on it...Whatta a crock!!!


Ya can't drive 20 miles from my home without passing a @#$%^& Wal-Mart...There is 27 Wal-Mart's with 100 miles of my residence!!! That's hard to believe but very true & very sad!!!

Brian "Wally World=Corporate Greed" j.

[Mad4stevie]

Where have I been that I didn't know that BN was being released on CD? This is fantastic!!!!!!

I don't think there is any nudity objection to be made - they might have been nude when they took the photo, but you can't see anything scandelous in the picture!

[sulamith]

I'll believe it when I see it on the shelf..........

but I sure as hell won't be in a Walmart when I do!

hee hee!

I still haven't recovered from the famous meltdown "potting soil incident" from three years ago that was the straw that blew out this camels back. Let's just say it involved myself crawling up into the back of my Jeep Cherokee and hurling bags of the stuff out into their parking lot after I waited forever and finally loaded it myself and they screwed up the price.......... it wasn't pretty and I didn't give a GOOD god-damn who had to clean it up.

A person can only swallow so much ****, you know.

About BN being reissued, I'll take a wait-and-see attitude. I've been disappointed about that too many times, too, but for Stevie and Lindsey, I'll behave myself ( I promise not to hurl any bags of brown stuff!) and be patient.

-Sharon

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by sulamith
I never buy anything at Walmart. I haven't been in one in over three years. I will gladly drive past one in favor of a Target or an independent store any day of the week.

Nasty, evil places they are, full of all kinds of bad energies. A shopping trip there is like a trip to another planet, hence I have dubbed people who frequent Walmart as "Walmartians", because well.......... they just seem to be on a totally different wavelength than those of us who see that institution for what it is.

I don't need any household item bad enough to endure what Walmart puts me through! Inept sales clerks, tons of cheap crap I don't need, idiots having conversations in the aisles oblivious to those of us who wish to get what we need and get the hell out, waiting in line to pay among a sea of enourmous asses clad in those horrible matchy-matchy appliqued & embroidered outfits that no grown woman should be caught dead in..........ARRGH!!!

Bleck.

Don't you worry about me buying my FM among the Walmartians.
Eh, eh....it ain't gonna happen, sister!


-Sharon

LOL...you just described the WM experience in my town!! I thought ours was like alone in its skankiness...but I guess not...I hate...

We only have one, but in the next five years that number will increase to five!!! We're not a huge town, I can't even imagine why we'd need five Wal-Marts...well...a few years ago we did have a mass-exodus of grocery stores...so now all that is left is Albertsons and Wal-Mart...it's awful.....I HATE the place so much....but it's either go there and buy cereal for like $3.69 or go to Alberstons and buy the same cereal for $5.50!!! This town suck. haha..ok...enough of my rant....

[EricBliss12345]

The selection there sucks anyways. Plus, they're much cheaper at Best Buy. I have NO problem supporting Best Buy! Most of the older stuff there I buy is 9.99-11.99. Once I saw how low their prices were I started actually paying for music again.

To put it as kindly as possible, **** Wal Mart. It makes me sick that they have to impose their backwards, bible-beating, bum**** southern values on the entire country. They also don't carry Maxim anymore for being lewd, which is one of the greatest magazines of all time.

Wal Mart is basically worthless unless you're getting an oil change. It's like 15 bucks and Jiffy Lube charges like 30 something. So in that case I'll support their monopolizing, backwards corporation.

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by dontlookdown
Howdy folks,

this is sort of a political rant but I wanted to throw in my two cents for those that are interested. Every once in a while I notice fans talking about purchasing music at Wal-Mart. Most of you are probably aware of Wal-Mart's behavior toward artists but if not - here goes.

A few years back, just as Sheryl Crow was getting national attention, Wal-Mart refused to carry one of her records because in her lyrics she pointed out, in a subtle way, that the store has no problem selling guns and bullets to customers. (They also refuse to sell birth control pills in the Wal-Marts that have pharmacies - but that's another story. Guns are good, birth control isn't. Yikes).
Just last year Wal-Mart refused to sell Ben Folds fantastic live album because you could see a fan on the cover extending his middle finger toward the photographer. They told the record company to design a new cover and then they would offer it to customers.
As Rhino readies Buckingham Nicks for a fall release - we can only assume that Wal-Mart will refuse to sell it because - it features nudity on the cover.
If you have an alternative to Wal-Mart - such as Tower, Barnes + Noble, or hopefully, a good independent record store, please buy your Fleetwood Mac music there instead of Wal-Mart.
Just because we have a president who has created an atmosphere of fear across the country doesn't mean we should tolerate the same thing from American corporations. Let artists release music how they see fit. It's up to us to decide if we want to purchase it or not.

I hate Wal-Mart period! What a cluster f$@k of a store!!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
". . . It makes me sick that they have to impose their backwards, bible-beating, bumf[**]k southern values on the entire country."

I find any stereotypical gross lumping of groups together in a hate filled way to be very offensive. For example, I think it wrong and will always stand up against anyone that foolishly says things like all African Americans steal, all Yankees are classless rude idiots, all Californians are weird, all gay men have AIDS, etc. Therefore, I must say I find your similarly foolish inclusion of all people from the South in your diatribe against Walmart very offensive. I was born and reared in the South. I still live in the South. I and many others do not have these "southern values" you so foolishly and non-specifically assert in general. Yet, you carelessly assert them with little care and no regard for the many people I assert are like me, many of whom I know.

Moreover, your gross generalization and your lumping of what you perceive as a steadfast "southern values" are also not supported because there are historically and currently many strictly religious people and staunchly religious sects from all parts of our nation, e.g. New England, Utah, etc. Thus, I do not think the South has now or has ever had a monopoly on this area of thought.

In sum, slam Walmart or any other individual person or entity you deem to have these values all you want. Just please do not include me or any other free thinking American in your gross and unlearned generalization of what you incorrectly perceive as the South. :mad:

[stevierocks87]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I find any stereotypical gross lumping of groups together in a hate filled way to be very offensive. For example, I think it wrong and will always stand up against anyone that foolishly says things like all African Americans steal, all Yankees are classless rude idiots, all Californians are weird, all gay men have AIDS, etc. Therefore, I must say I find your similarly foolish inclusion of all people from the South in your diatribe against Walmart very offensive. I was born and reared in the South. I still live in the South. I and many others do not have these "southern values" you so foolishly and non-specifically assert in general. Yet, you carelessly assert them with little care and no regard for the many people I assert are like me, many of whom I know.

Moreover, your gross generalization and your lumping of what you perceive as a steadfast "southern values" are also not supported because there are historically and currently many strictly religious people and staunchly religious sects from all parts of our nation, e.g. New England, Utah, etc. Thus, I do not think the South has now or has ever had a monopoly on this area of thought.

In sum, slam Walmart or any other individual person or entity you deem to have these values all you want. Just please do not include me or any other free thinking American in your gross and unlearned generalization of what you incorrectly perceive as the South. :mad:

Rock on Jason! You tell 'em! :nod:

:wavey: adam :wavey:

[dontlookdown]

...yet, you carelessly assert them with little care and no regard for the many people I assert are like me, many of whom I know.


hey - is this a new Stevie lyric?!

[Tusk57]

Before reading all these hateful posts about Walmart, I didn't have an opinion one way or the other about shopping there. There is nothing wrong with selling guns. They are a legal product. If you don't want one, don't buy one. What's the problem? I personally have only one.....a .44 magnum revolver in my drawer by my bed just in case some idiot decides to come check out my pad, I'll have a little surprise for him. You people tend to fall all over yourselves trying to have the most politically correct opinion. I guess that's why I like Ted Nugent so much. At least he has guts to call it like it is! By the way, President Bush just so happens to be doing an outstanding job!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dontlookdown
...yet, you carelessly assert them with little care and no regard for the many people I assert are like me, many of whom I know.


hey - is this a new Stevie lyric?!

Who told you? :laugh:

I should only be so lucky to write like she does - and she's from Arizona for goodness sake and we all know how they are THERE, he says tongue firmly planted in his cheek :laugh: :cool:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Tusk57
Before reading all these hateful posts about Walmart, I didn't have an opinion one way or the other about shopping there.

I pretty much agree with you about Wal-Mart.

However, I must say that if someone does not like a store for any reason, they certainly are free to shop elsewhere. Moreover, in many of the supermarkets I have seen in many states (I travel alot), the new trend seems to be to cover the lower 3/4 of the magazines in the racks at eye level at the checkout line. This is to prevent a six year old from asking "Mommy - what's a breast implant," "Mommy - why does it mean when it says Mrs. Clinton has a hot, gay, lesbian lover," etc. I can see the need for that and think this is a good way to address that concern. I mean being a parent apparently is hard enough without having to explain these complicated terms because the store wants to make a dollar before your child may be ready. Also, many people cannot just leave their children at home when they go to the store. So, I say kudos to the coverlets. Having said that and on a separate but related topic, in today's world, parents apparently better start explaining early. Sad - but true IMHO

[sulamith]

Hey Jason!
I'm so glad to see someone so eloquently defend our Southern honor, suh...!

hee hee!!

Tusk57, my beef with Walmart has nothing to do with guns. My husband owns quite few.

My problem is that they come into communites and sqash locally-owned independent stores that actually give good service and have a world of local charm and character to offer (Walmart has NONE, as in zero)........ all the while brainwashing the populus into thinking they have the lowest prices in town (which they don't), which sends everyone running to them like so many lemmings off a cliff.

Sure they donate money to local charities and buy score boards for the local Little League........... they know they had better do something in the way of damage control to squelch the cries of the Ma & Pa organizations they have just run out of business.

They are killing small business in America, and most people are too dumb-ass to realize it. They are trying to put yet another one of their behemonth stores here in a very historic area of Savannah, called Sandfly. It is just beautiful out there, and Walmart wants to come in and rip out 300-year old oak trees. The people of the area are fighting against the corporate giant tooth and nail and so far, they are winning! Halle-Berry-leuiah!

I'll pay more and patronize the few independent stores that are left, as long as they are are there.

That includes the local gunshop, thank you.

-Sharon

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Tusk57
There is nothing wrong with selling guns. They are a legal product.

You see a point and you swerve to miss it, don't you? Are CDs illegal products? Magazines?

Wal-mart is a predatory corporation that treats employees like ****, and I only hope Wal-mart expands too fast and implodes in a hurry.

By the way, Ted Nugent is a Neanderthal piece of monkey doo, and George W. is by far the worst president of at least the last 50 years, if not ever. Servicemen and women are now clamoring to be sent home from Iraq because they're sick of serving as sitting ducks. The economy shows no signs of perking up. And, here's my favorite one in a long time: The White House today admitted it used false information when it asserted that Iraq was looking to buy uranium in Africa. I knew the information was false in February. What took these numbskulls so long? Where are the WMD?

[Livia]

They are trying to put yet another one of their behemonth stores here in a very historic area of Savannah, called Sandfly. It is just beautiful out there, and Walmart wants to come in and rip out 300-year old oak trees. The people of the area are fighting against the corporate giant tooth and nail and so far, they are winning! Halle-Berry-leuiah!

They're trying to do the same thing here, near an environmentally protected area. I saw a "Just Say No to Walmart" bumper sticker on someone's truck last Monday. I live about 1/2 way in-between the Walmart I go to, and the one they wanna build. Do we really NEED a Walmart every 5 miles like 7-11's and Starbucks? Ridiculous...

[Vianna]

Go to google.com and search for weapons of mass destruction. Then click on I'm feeling lucky and watch what happens=:-)

[wondergirl9847]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh::lol::laugh:

[strandinthewind]

At first I was like why is my comp. screwing up!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh:

[CarneVaca]

That's a funny one. I saw that last week.

[RobNYC]

Wal-Mart is awful. Their business practices and the policies.

[estranged4life]

who once met Sam Walton all I can say is that he makes "Gomer Pyle" look like good ol' beloved MSN (Mighty super nerd) Bill Gates...

And like Carne, I'm waiting to see the day the Wally-World expands too much and die a fast well deserved death!!!

I had to make their @#$%^&* shopping carts (While employed by Unarco Commercial Products) for several years when I was younger, So ya damned tooting I HATE WAL-MART!!!!

Brian "Misses the ol' TG&Y days" j.

ps-And yer right sulamith, Wally World KILLS any well established business in an area when they bring their corporate "feces" into a town then says "its fair & competitive business"!!!!

[wondergirl9847]

I used to work for a little independently owned company called Video Library here in Fort Worth....I was there for about three months, and then Blockbuster Video came and bought the owner out...they THEN, put in ANOTHER BBV down the friggin street!!! I'm like WTH?!?! I wouldn't be surprised if Wally World and BBV are sister companies or something...they are frickin taking over the world!! :mad:

[sulamith]

oh Brian!
Somebody else who remembers TG&Y! haha!! And I sure do feel for you, having to make carts for the Walmartians. I'm sure you did a fine job, just so the Walmartian kid who retrieves them from the parking lot can line up, oh...... about 287 of them into a long train and then shove them back into the store.

And to all of you folks who responded and likewise can't stand WM, I sing your praises! Maybe we will see the day the get a taste of their own medicine. Somebody will come along and do the same thing to them, I hope.

Around here, unfortunately, there are too many folks who think WM is just "the place to be". I work with a couple of ladies who I swear are just addicted to the place.

Look, if I ever get so hard up for human interaction that I have to go to WM to socialize, then just go ahead and dig my grave, 'cause I'm a goner!

While we're bashing WM, did you guys know that they don't even have to own the buildings they house, and when they move out of them, (because they built a bigger store down the road, you know), WM can still retain the power to have a say in who gets to lease the building next? If a competitor wants to lease it, WM can say no, and the community is stuck with a big, empty, unusable eyesore of a building. WM doesn't give a **** about your town or your people.

That's right. When WM wants to come in to these medium-sized towns, they get the town to build the building for them, so they will come, then they stick them with it when they no longer want it.

Yeah, that's real good for everybody, isn't it?

Buncha schmucks.

If I was a very successful musician, writer, or artist, I would cause a stir by not allowing my work to be sold there! lol!!

-Sharon

[Tusk57]

I'm crying "Uncle" already, Carne! I figure there has to be at least one token conservative Republican in here to liven things up a tad. I like to stir the pot. I agree about Wal-mart taking over and putting out a lot of mom and pop stores. That is a real shame. But what am I going to do about it? I rarely shop at all. I'm so tight I squeak when I walk. My underwear has more holes in them then Swiss cheese. I still love Fleetwood Mac and can't wait to see Lindsey tear it up with one of his patented guitar solos!!!

[EricBliss12345]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I find any stereotypical gross lumping of groups together in a hate filled way to be very offensive. For example, I think it wrong and will always stand up against anyone that foolishly says things like all African Americans steal, all Yankees are classless rude idiots, all Californians are weird, all gay men have AIDS, etc. Therefore, I must say I find your similarly foolish inclusion of all people from the South in your diatribe against Walmart very offensive. I was born and reared in the South. I still live in the South. I and many others do not have these "southern values" you so foolishly and non-specifically assert in general. Yet, you carelessly assert them with little care and no regard for the many people I assert are like me, many of whom I know.

Moreover, your gross generalization and your lumping of what you perceive as a steadfast "southern values" are also not supported because there are historically and currently many strictly religious people and staunchly religious sects from all parts of our nation, e.g. New England, Utah, etc. Thus, I do not think the South has now or has ever had a monopoly on this area of thought.

In sum, slam Walmart or any other individual person or entity you deem to have these values all you want. Just please do not include me or any other free thinking American in your gross and unlearned generalization of what you incorrectly perceive as the South. :mad:

Oh come on, I didn't mean EVERY southern person! ;)

And yeah, it's not fair to stereotype as there may be some in a certain race group or minority that are different from the norm. However, I also believe there are stereotypes for a reason. I happen to be Polish. Can't you tell? :laugh:

Please accept my apology though. Me and all my friends happen to be an ignorant, ball-busting bunch and sometimes I forget that that doesn't translate well to internet message boards sometimes.

Actually to be honest if I join any discussion not related to music I'm just going to get myself in trouble because I always seem to make people mad. I'm really not an asshole though.

Once again, sorry.

Peace
Eric

[dissention]

Originally posted by Tusk57
By the way, President Bush just so happens to be doing an outstanding job!

That must be why people are turning on him like milk on a hot summer day. Bush is the worst excuse for a human being I've ever seen in my life. He did a ****ty job as governor of Texas and he's doing an even ****tier job as President.

He is a man who doesn't feel, he's a man who doesn't care about others. Don't you remember when Karla Faye Tucker was going to be executed and the awful things he said about her? She was trying to get her execution commuted and the bastard mocked her publically. How can a man mock someone who is about to lose their life? How can a man in public office do that and say it during press conferences? It was a clear indication of the kind of man he is; it foreshadowed his presidency.

His crap transferred real well when he was APPOINTED president. He killed our men and women, along with innocent Iraqi citizens. People are dying every day because of his hate and lies, all so he can flex his muscle and show that HE is a superpower.

But now his house of cards is falling. The Brits are turning against Tony Blair so fast it'll make your head spin, and he will take Bush with him. Mark my words, HE WILL NOT BE RE-ELECTED. Our economy sucks, it hasn't gotten better one bit, our people are dying, our education system is eroding away, and global opinion about America is that we are scum. With Bush as our Hitler, who can disagree?

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
Please accept my apology though. Me and all my friends happen to be an ignorant, ball-busting bunch and sometimes I forget that that doesn't translate well to internet message boards sometimes.

:laugh:

I was just on my soapbox making a point of order! :cool:

No harm No foul ;)

[CarneVaca]

Right on, Dissention. I for one can't wait to see the stupid son of an itch go down in flames (no offense to Bahr)!

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by dissention

His crap transferred real well when he was APPOINTED president. He killed our men and women, along with innocent Iraqi citizens. People are dying every day because of his hate and lies, all so he can flex his muscle and show that HE is a superpower.


Wow, apparently you didn't finish watching election coverage.

If you're going to bash Bush, you might as well include all the other presidents who declared a war in which US soldiers and civilians of opposing countries were killed. Any decision Bush makes has to go through a lot of people before it's solidified.

As far as Wal-Mart goes, I don't buy music there, but I don't see the problem in getting the cheapest version of generic products there. I definitely appreciate my $1.50 sugarfree double-stick popsicles, $0.79 cordial cherries, and $0.57 packing boxes.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
As far as Wal-Mart goes, I don't buy music there, but I don't see the problem in getting the cheapest version of generic products there. I definitely appreciate my $1.50 sugarfree double-stick popsicles, $0.79 cordial cherries, and $0.57 packing boxes.

It's all about me. That's what Wal-mart and other blood-sucking corporations are preying on--our basest instincts. Next time you pick up those much-needed cordial cherries for 79 cents, take a second to ponder whether the poor sucker who stocked the shelf would even be able to afford them. Chances are he/she is barely getting by on the 6.50/hour Wal-mart salary.

[sulamith]

...........and while you're there getting those cordial cherries so "cheap" how much other needless stuff are you suckered into buying because you "saved" so much?

Look, I'm not attacking you personally, so don't get mad, but that's the way they suck customers in. Sure they offer a few things at low prices, then they get you with all the "might as wells" and add-on sales.

I save much more money, time, effort, and headache now that I don't shop there.

Carne is right about the wages and the employees. That's why they are all only part-time (they don't have to give them any benefits) and a large number of employees are stealing anything they can get away with.

-Sharon

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Right on, Dissention. I for one can't wait to see the stupid son of an itch go down in flames (no offense to Bahr)!

LOL! Thanks to you, Carne, I now know that there is at least one other person out there who has resisted the brainwashing from the Bush administration! They are few and far between.:laugh:

[gypsysara]

wal-mart sucks. I never buy music there and only go there if Ill die otherwise. Their hypocritical standpoints like selling guns but not birth control make me sick. Then again, I guess from their POV selling guns IS birth control.

As for Dubuya, I wont even go there. He's a recovering alcholoic and cocaine user. As far as our economy goes... well the Federal Reserve was enacted by an ILLEGAL vote, "claiming" the necessary radification was legal and legit - however upon further examination of legislation records, was found only 2 states voted "yes" to create said Reserve. When the US abandoned the Gold Standard a LONG time ago, Jefferson said a very prophetic statement that our nation would toil in a debt-laden society if we did just that. A nation poor and with poor morals. Seems like just what happend and gool ol TJeff was correct. Bottom line, Dubuya sucks, but the downside with the economy was started BEFORE his time (yet has only worsened). And lets not GO there with his so-called "environmental" (destruction??)....

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/careers/articles/0,15114,462970,00.html

(edit) Just found this link re: WM & their female employees.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by Vianna
Go to google.com and search for weapons of mass destruction. Then click on I'm feeling lucky and watch what happens=:-)

This is sooooooo funny, thanks Vianna.

As a rule, I avoid posting political opinions but I think this administration is scary enough to warrant comment. For some interesting reading, check out www.bushwatch.com.

Barbara

[dontlookdown]

jesus louises! had i known what i was starting, i never would have shared my Wal Mart opinion....

or maybe it's good healthy arguing. but we are getting away from the music - once again.

since we are - i have to point out to Tusky57: what's wrong with guns? a lot.
take a walk through south central LA or Harlem, or any other inner-city ghetto neighborhood and you'll see what's wrong with guns on every street corner.

your attitude is precisely what is wrong with our current bastard of a president. he has absolutely no interest in what goes on in American cities, no intellectual curiosity about anything - and as long as he's helping to pad the pockets of corporate America that fund the GOP, he doesn't give a **** about joblessness or the wretched economy. He is by far the worst president we have had in my lifetime. Short-sighted businessmen have no business running this country.
If you want to see Lindsey and Stevie throw up on stage, share your politics with them Tusky57.

And then there's the Weapons of Mass Deception.....I can't decide what's more depressing - George W. Bush or the uneducated masses who eat up every word he spoon-feeds!

[DrummerDeanna]

I feel so passionatly against our president that I can't even discuss things without just getting ANGRY...I don't like him or what he stands for or what he CLAIMS to stands for...I think people like him are very dangerous for human-kind...and for our planet as a whole...

[RobNYC]

Originally posted by dissention
That must be why people are turning on him like milk on a hot summer day. Bush is the worst excuse for a human being I've ever seen in my life. He did a ****ty job as governor of Texas and he's doing an even ****tier job as President.

You are my f*cking HERO!!

He's awful! Look at what him and his cronies did to anyone who spoke out against the war? They were labeled un-american and traitors. For a man who's supposed to be leading the free world he sure didn't do anything to discourage such remarks.

When Clinton was president it was open season on him to say whatever you wanted. Fine, that's the way it should be, but suddenly a man made president by his family's money and connections you can't disagree with or challange him?

Every day people are STILL dying in Iraq and are we any safer than we were a few months ago? No, and no WMD were found either, because there were none!

The tax break he gave was for the rich. None of us here will see the benefits of it as hardly anyone here makes that kind of money. Rather then spending billions on Iraq the money would have done better spending it here at home.

AND to the real kicker is, in his tax CUTS, he's cut vetrans aid. He sent all this military people over there and he's cutting their aid for later in life. What a wonderfull guy he is! And the sad part is those men and women are supporting it!

[Lisa]

Originally posted by dontlookdown
And then there's the Weapons of Mass Deception.....I can't decide what's more depressing - George W. Bush or the uneducated masses who eat up every word he spoon-feeds!

I can not agree more! George W. Bush is an idiot, pure and simple.

While I'm here, I'll throw in my two cents on Wal-Mart too...I'm sure you're thrilled ;) I love Wal-Mart. I certainly don't agree with their stance on guns and censorship, and I don't buy guns (there or anywhere else) or music there. But their prices on groceries and other household necessities (diapers, school supplies, shoes, etc.) are waaay lower than at any of the three grocery stores in my town, and that is why I shop there. I'm not so stupid that I'm suckered into buying things I don't need just because they're on display with a pretty sign, and I really do save money by shopping there. With two small children to feed and clothe, saving money any way I can is a priority for me and my family. I'd love to be able to be rich enough to be high and mighty and poo-poo all the poor slobs who shop at Wal-Mart, but I'm not, and I'm not going to apologize for it.

Oh, and while this certainly falls into the TMI category, Wal-Mart does sell birth control pills as well as condoms.

ANYWAY.....uh, FM rules :D

-Lisa

[glitter_fades]

Wow! How did I miss this thread?

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Yikes, it's hot in here!

[dissention]

Originally posted by RobNYC
You are my f*cking HERO!!

How can I ever be humble again after that? :laugh:

It just soothes my soul to see that people agree with me about Bush; it's wonderful. :)

[dissention]

Originally posted by gypsysara
He's a recovering alcholoic and cocaine user.

I think that's up for debate, darlin'! :laugh: :laugh:

[gypsysara]

:laugh: you could debate me till your face turns blue, and still wont change my mind I believe it to be true.

LMAO Glitter!

[dissention]

Well, I still think he sips Bacardi when Rummy isn't looking and lights the pipe when Fleischer has a light!! :laugh: :laugh:

[Vianna]

I enjoyed the site..weaponsgate-that's a good one!

I am glad I am not alone in my dislike of the present administration and the way things are going=:-)

Now, the big question-how are we going to get him out of there in 2004????We've got to!

Weapons of mass deception-love it! ROTF!

[Josh2003]

Add me to the "list" of anti-Bush Ledgies :D I just cannot believe how QUICKLY so many things in this country have changed since he took office. Namely, the economy.

So that's why I say Hillary for president ;)

As for Wal*Mart, yes I do buy music there. I don't agree with their censorship policies, but in my area, they really have the best prices. Sam Goody is rediculous...$16 for a CD I can buy at WM for $13 or less. I bought the Jason Mraz CD for only $10 the other day.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by gypsysara
As for Dubuya, I wont even go there. He's a recovering alcholoic and cocaine user

I'm totally confused. :confused: It's not okay for our President to be a recovering alcoholic/cocaine abuser (who's clean now I assume) but it's okay for Stevie Nicks to be a recovering cocaine user and Mick and John to be recovering alcoholics? Why is it we forgive celebs for substance abuse (oh, they overcame their demons) but not a man who is our President?

I'm not trying to start something, I would really like to know opinions on this please. Thanks.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I'm totally confused. :confused: It's not okay for our President to be a recovering alcoholic/cocaine abuser (who's clean now I assume) but it's okay for Stevie Nicks to be a recovering cocaine user and Mick and John to be recovering alcoholics? Why is it we forgive celebs for substance abuse (oh, they overcame their demons) but not a man who is our President?In my opinion, the difference is that Bush's addictions and troubles have been almost completely brushed off and ignored, while Bill Clinton's every move, past and present, was analyzed and judged.
The whole "tried marijuana/I didn't inhale" thing was brought up millions of times when folks wanted to attack Clinton's character, and yet NO ONE talks about Bush's battles with drugs and alcohol.

And Laura was involved in a fatal hit-and-run, and that's been glossed over and ignored as well.
Can you just imagine if Hillary had had such a skeleton in her closet?? We'd have never heard the end of it.

Those things are very rarely discussed, because the conservative media keeps them under wraps.
Double-standards are one of my biggest pet peeves, and that is a great example of a double-standard.

As far as Mick, Stevie, et al.... they have been completely public about their addictions.
No one has said it's "ok" that they did it... but at least their forthright about it.

[flyfirefly]

Next time you pick up those much-needed cordial cherries for 79 cents, take a second to ponder whether the poor sucker who stocked the shelf would even be able to afford them. Chances are he/she is barely getting by on the 6.50/hour Wal-mart salary.

Thanks, I will. On my $6.25/hr salary. :rolleyes:

Better to be employed and make something, than be un/employed and making nothing.


Look, I'm not attacking you personally, so don't get mad, but that's the way they suck customers in. Sure they offer a few things at low prices, then they get you with all the "might as wells" and add-on sales.

Did any of you take economics? This is what they call BUSINESS.

[sulamith]

Yes, I did take Economics. I have a Master's degree, and I don't need that to tell me that you DON'T need 3 Walmarts in a medium-sized town, and that same town doesn't need to be stuck with an empty building or buildings Walmart won't let them lease to anybody else.

I know business is business. I just have a problem with people who think Walmart is this benevolent institution.

Far from it.

Small business built this country. Maybe part of the blame for the state of the economy rests at the feet of companies like Walmart. It would be fine if they would allow a fair competiton, but they don't. I'm not going to give them another penny of my money, I don't care how far I have to drive past them.

I also don't need an advanced degree to tell me I should stay out of this Bush debate, so I will.

-Sharon

[flyfirefly]

Well Sharon, you can take you advanced degree and wave it in front of the $6.50/hr employees and laugh. It's something they'll never have the money to achieve.

[CarneVaca]

Walmart's modus operandi has little to do with economics and lot to do with greed. That goes for much of big business these days. Exceptions are few.

Lisa, I can't sit here in good conscience and tell you not to get the best prices you can. Then I'd just be about as out of touch with reality as Lindsey was on the concert ticket situation. Therein the perversity of it all. You know, I was just thinking this morning that we would never see massive strikes in this country today the way workers took to the picket lines in the 1930s and 1940s. Our threshhold for suffering as a society is so low that we've grown to accept countless indignities and injustices just so we don't disturb that miniscule piece of the pie that most of us are allowed to get our hands on. I always laugh when people like Tusky57 tell us anybody can strike it rich in this country if you pick the right job and work hard enough. Why should teachers and day care workers make a decent wage? Really, what is so important about what they're doing? As a society, we've shown great disdain for our children and most of us don't even realize it.

There's a basic undercurrent of frost running through our lives. I'm guilty of it too, I'm sure. I'm guilty of it each time I'm zipping through Penn Station and a homeless person sticks his/her hand right in front of me. I should be compassionate but often I'm annoyed.

When we defend Walmart, when we defend unethical stock brokers, CEOs who "earn" obscene salaries while they lay off $40,000/year employees, politicians who have no interest in serving the electorate but to advance their own careers, we are merely sealing our own fate. All great societies have fallen. Unless we do some serious reckoning in the next several years, we are in for some serious decline in coming decades.

Oh, and I'd like to add that the only person out of Texas I'd vote for president is Wondergirl. Anybody who loves Lindsey that much can't be that bad, even if she does seem to have some Republican leanings. ;)

[strandinthewind]

He sits at the computer on his hands attempting, perhaps in vain, to join sista-sharon and stay well out of this political debate!! :laugh:

One thing is for sure, like Clinton, people either hate or love Bush, which makes for amusing reading!!!!!!

Also, I would vote for Wondergirl as well! :cool:

[RobNYC]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
In my opinion, the difference is that Bush's addictions and troubles have been almost completely brushed off and ignored, while Bill Clinton's every move, past and present, was analyzed and judged.
The whole "tried marijuana/I didn't inhale" thing was brought up millions of times when folks wanted to attack Clinton's character, and yet NO ONE talks about Bush's battles with drugs and alcohol.

And Laura was involved in a fatal hit-and-run, and that's been glossed over and ignored as well.
Can you just imagine if Hillary had had such a skeleton in her closet?? We'd have never heard the end of it.

Those things are very rarely discussed, because the conservative media keeps them under wraps.
Double-standards are one of my biggest pet peeves, and that is a great example of a double-standard.

As far as Mick, Stevie, et al.... they have been completely public about their addictions.
No one has said it's "ok" that they did it... but at least their forthright about it.

It is a double standard. It was a HUGE scandal that Clinton smoked pot (who DIDN'T smoke pot in college?) and now you have a president who went AWOL from Texas National Guard because he couldn't pass a drug test and called a DWI he received in his 30s a "youthfull indescretion"?

[sulamith]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, Jason!

We could get in so much trouble...............

snicker, snicker...

Ah well, I'll just stick to trying to make folks see the light about Walmart, and just sit the rest out, dah'lin!

-Sharon

[Vianna]

<b>"When we defend Walmart, when we defend unethical stock brokers, CEOs who "earn" obscene salaries while they lay off $40,000/year employees, politicians who have no interest in serving the electorate but to advance their own careers, we are merely sealing our own fate. All great societies have fallen. Unless we do some serious reckoning in the next several years, we are in for some serious decline in coming decades."</b>

This is so true.

I am still waiting to hear what's going to happen to Enron and all those crooks there.

When is somebody going to make them pay the tax they didn't pay for four years? It's only fair that the government do this because they go after the little people fast enough if they don't pay theirs...

[Vianna]

However, Walmart isn't the only guilty one..

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Vianna
However, Walmart isn't the only guilty one..

If it were, it would be easy enough to finger it as a pariah and take your business elsewhere. If it were...

[strandinthewind]

They certainly are not.

Also, from a purely theoretical point of view, on some level all businesses no matter what size that seek profit are guilty of the same thing. For example, if we conclude it is not okay for Walmart execs to get rich off of the backs of their workers, then shouldn't the same standard apply to the mom and pop operations that get comparatively rich off of the backs of their workers (assuming they have them - they probably pay less than WalMart or at least the same) or off of the backs of the cheap labor that assumedly made the products or supplied the material that was used to make the products both stores sell. Is it that WalMart does it on a larger scale and they are seen as a foreign entity intruding on local soil? Moreover, who am I to say who can and who cannot open a store in my area. I mean what if mom and pop open a second store - is that too much? What about a third or fourth store? At what point will they be taking business from other local mom and pop operations?

I am not defending WalMart. In fact, although they do bring lots of business (construction, wages, etc.) to an area, I think they appear to throw their considerable weight around in a horrible way and I really never go to WalMart. I am just being philosophical, if not Socratic, I guess before I judge them too harshly for doing on a much larger scale mostly the same thing as anyone in business does.

[Jason T.]

Originally posted by Vianna
Go to google.com and search for weapons of mass destruction. Then click on I'm feeling lucky and watch what happens=:-)


:laugh: That is the funniest thing I have ever seen. I guess Bush was one of the ones who helps Google out with constructing search pages.:laugh:

[gypsysara]

Re; GW - The DUI aside, which I feel is enough to not want this person running my country, I personally feel he did hard drugs. Im talking a lot more than a natural plant like marijuana (which, IMO, isnt much above cigarettes, tobacco another plant). Im talking hard chemical drugs like cocaine that will steal your soul. Thank God I had the brains to stay away from that crap. Its all been covered up, of course. Could I "prove" said statements? No. But Ive heard enough credible reports to believe it to be true. This guy scares me. Ever heard of the patriot act? Well it gives our government secret surveilliance powers over the internet and email, along with phones. What about the "rave act" passed with the "amber alert bill"? How'd those two get paired up? This guy is taking away our given freedoms, and raping the planet faster than ever before. A lot of americans are getting upset that no so-called "WMD" havent been found yet. WTF? Its like he lied to us to get us to agree to his oil war. Our soldiers are dying over there still now every day. WTWCT? BTW, these are only my personal feelings and opinions. Nothing personal if your feelings are different.

[estranged4life]

makes me think of Texans and the most recent Pearl Jam show in Dallas:


"Then he (Eddie Vedder) talks about a "contest," holding up a folder that is inscribed with "WMD" ... that there is a folder taped to the bottom of a chair in the crowd with back stage passes in it, and that at the end of the show, they would all go and tear Dallas up with two folks from the crowd. "If you don't have it then that means you got s--t and you can relate to this," leading to a lovely 'I Got S--t.' Later, he asks if anyone has found the folder and grins, telling them to keep looking. After 'Dissident,' Jeff says, "Skip Habit ... f--k Habit," and they play 'Better Man." After 'SOL&T," Ed introduces the band and mentions Stone playing Les Paul guitars and there is a toast to Mr. Les Paul and that he's 88 years old and that "Les is more." Then, Boom: "Don't mess with Texas? Yeah, well don't mess with f--kin' Boom, all right? In fact, you can't mess with any of us as long as Boom is close by." The second encore starts off with Ed introducing 'Crazy Mary' saying, "We're gonna play it better than we've ever played it before." Ed again asks if anyone has found the WMD folder ... "Please don't tell me it wasn't there. Don't tell me the WMDs weren't there somewhere. That would be upsetting. Keep looking!" leading to 'RITFW.' Of course, this is all a big joke, with "WMD" being an acronym for "weapons of mass destruction," and the folder was never found (many didn't get the joke), but it was a clever way to voice displeasure in an intelligent way in Texas."-

http://www.fivehorizons.com/tour/cc/t2003p3.shtml

Brian "WMD-Weapon Of Mass Distraction" j.

[strandinthewind]

One more reason for the Chinese to hate us!!!!! :cool:

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/0703/11walmart.html

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
One more reason for the Chinese to hate us!!!!! :cool:

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/0703/11walmart.html

:laugh: :laugh:

Strand, on your previous points, it's hard to take issue with what you said. But I bet the average mom and pop store owner is not taking home 400 times the pay of his/her rank and file worker, as CEOs of large corporations do. Therein the lack of proportion, and therefore, ubridled greed. It's obscene.

This morning I heard on NPR that the House is considering a bill pushed by the Bush fascists to change the rules governing how overtime pay works. The result if this passes: The workers get screwed again.

Isn't it interesting that whenever a raise of minimum wage, or something of the kind, comes up, the Republicans always insist that it's going to put small businesses out of business? Then they turn around and do everything in their power to help big industry, which often is bent on sending small business to the bankruptcy court. Walmart's shady business practices and deplorable employee treatment are well-documented. If you're in a town where Walmart is your only choice, well, what are you gonna do? But if you have choices, avoid it like the plague.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
:laugh: :laugh:

Strand, on your previous points, it's hard to take issue with what you said. But I bet the average mom and pop store owner is not taking home 400 times the pay of his/her rank and file worker, as CEOs of large corporations do. Therein the lack of proportion, and therefore, ubridled greed. It's obscene.

This morning I heard on NPR that the House is considering a bill pushed by the Bush fascists to change the rules governing how overtime pay works. The result if this passes: The workers get screwed again.

Isn't it interesting that whenever a raise of minimum wage, or something of the kind, comes up, the Republicans always insist that it's going to put small businesses out of business? Then they turn around and do everything in their power to help big industry, which often is bent on sending small business to the bankruptcy court. Walmart's shady business practices and deplorable employee treatment are well-documented. If you're in a town where Walmart is your only choice, well, what are you gonna do? But if you have choices, avoid it like the plague.

I know. It always kills me when people say "Oh that is just too much money to spend on labor" and then they make $50 million in a year off of that labor. And you know what, I have no problem with someone being that rich or making that much money - hell I'd like to as well. My problem is only that would it kill them to make only $35 million and pay their workers $2 per hour more and give them better benefits. I mean what else will that extra $15 million buy them that they really need so much as to force their workers to work for less that they cannot get wit "just" $35 million. Greed Greed Greed!!!!!

[Sugar]

I buy most of my CDs from a local used CD store or off of Ebay. I frankly would rather see my money go to some guy in Iowa selling CDs from out of his living room that give a dime to Wal-Mart (or any other mass retailers).

Thing is Americans (as a whole) want everything they want and they want it cheap. No one is going to question the morals of any guy they think is giving them a deal...

Can you say $300 tax "rebate"? :laugh:

Don't even get me started ...

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by Sugar
I buy most of my CDs from a local used CD store or off of Ebay. I frankly would rather see my money go to some guy in Iowa selling CDs from out of his living room that give a dime to Wal-Mart (or any other mass retailers).


But if that guy bought that CD from Wal-Mart, aren't you just reimbursing him?

What's the difference? Peace of mind?

[Barbara]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
:laugh: :laugh:

This morning I heard on NPR that the House is considering a bill pushed by the Bush fascists to change the rules governing how overtime pay works. The result if this passes: The workers get screwed again.

With unemployment the highest it's been in nine years (June - 6.4%), the job market is flooded with people competing for jobs and in many cases accepting lower than a living wage. Employers, who now have people beating down their doors for a job, can now pick and choose, pay lower wages, quit paying overtime, health benefits, etc.

And, how is a person without a job supposed to benefit from a tax cut? ;)

Barbara

[wondergirl9847]

VOTE FOR CHRISTY, YOU GET LINDSEY AS VICE PRESIDENT!! LMAO!!!!!

Actually, you wanna throw stones at me???? I don't vote. *ducks* I never have. I'm 27 and have never voted...once. WHY??????? Because I don't keep up with everything enough to know WHO I want to represent me...I trust and have faith that all will work out. Maybe if I were not a spoiled brat, I would. :rolleyes:

I believe in things you'd shudder at probably....like actually killing people on death row *gasp*!!!!!! I believe in the right to own guns, I believe in the right to free speech (love Eminem), I believe in the right to do whatever you want as long as you don't physically hurt another human being.

Honestly, I didn't know about Laura Bushs' hit and run thing...see, I don't keep up. I think our gov't is kinda screwed because basically, it's run by old, white men who don't know their butt from a hole in the ground because they live the high life, eat off gold platters and are driven every frickin where they wanna go...plus, if anything happens (9-11), they can all go hide underground or something until it passes. Nice. :rolleyes:

It's kinda like that bumper sticker, whoever dies with the most toys...wins....same thing in politics...whoever has the most money...wins.

[dissention]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I believe in the right to own guns

Well, you are from Texas.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[wondergirl9847]

"Land of the free...home of the Whopper." - Heard that from some comedian on the radio last week!!

I have shot my dad's guns....I'm not GOOD at it, but it's cool. LOL What's that saying...guns don't kill people...people kill people. Hehe.

Seriously tho, I'm thankful that my dad let me shoot his guns and his BB gun when I was younger, because my fear of them subsided. Sure, there are wackjobs out there with guns ready and waiting to kill people, but I have faith that God will watch over me, my family and friends. :)

If parents would take time with their kids and show them things and spend time with them, take them hunting, fishing, whatever, build that trustful relationship, there wouldn't be as many wackos out there. That's just MVHO.

[DrummerDeanna]

I saw what has to be one of the funniest bumper stickers I have seen....it read:

"There's a village in Texas that's missing its idiot"

[Sugar]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
But if that guy bought that CD from Wal-Mart, aren't you just reimbursing him?

What's the difference? Peace of mind?


I suppose so! I can't control what other people do. I haven't paid full retail price for a CD in years, so if any of these people bought their CDs at Wal-Mart, when I bought it, they lost money.

But I guess the real point is, MY money doesn't go to Wal-Mart. So even if that guy bought it at Wal-Mart and I bought it from him, Wal-Mart sold only 1 CD, as opposed to me buying a second CD from Wal-Mart. Works for me!:D

[GypsyDaffodil]

Hey... if it weren't the only shopping place within 50 miles of my college (Plymouth State in NH) I would not shop there either!
As soon as I get money, I'm headed to Best Buy in search of Fleetwood Mac music. :-)

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I think our gov't is kinda screwed because basically, it's run by old, white men who don't know their butt from a hole in the ground because they live the high life, eat off gold platters and are driven every frickin where they wanna go...plus, if anything happens (9-11), they can all go hide underground or something until it passes. Nice. :rolleyes:

That's why voting, helps.

In my opinion, if you don't vote, you have no room to complain because you didn't even try to make a difference.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
Well, you are from Texas.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Double LMAO. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Love to you and Texas though, Christy.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
That must be why people are turning on him like milk on a hot summer day. Bush is the worst excuse for a human being I've ever seen in my life. He did a ****ty job as governor of Texas and he's doing an even ****tier job as President.

He is a man who doesn't feel, he's a man who doesn't care about others. Don't you remember when Karla Faye Tucker was going to be executed and the awful things he said about her? She was trying to get her execution commuted and the bastard mocked her publically. How can a man mock someone who is about to lose their life? How can a man in public office do that and say it during press conferences? It was a clear indication of the kind of man he is; it foreshadowed his presidency.

His crap transferred real well when he was APPOINTED president. He killed our men and women, along with innocent Iraqi citizens. People are dying every day because of his hate and lies, all so he can flex his muscle and show that HE is a superpower.

But now his house of cards is falling. The Brits are turning against Tony Blair so fast it'll make your head spin, and he will take Bush with him. Mark my words, HE WILL NOT BE RE-ELECTED. Our economy sucks, it hasn't gotten better one bit, our people are dying, our education system is eroding away, and global opinion about America is that we are scum.

Thank you, Amen.:nod:

[gldstwmn]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gypsysara
[B]As for Dubuya, I wont even go there. He's a recovering alcholoic and cocaine user.


Wait just a minute. I don't care for President Bush at all but just what are you insinuating about being a recovering? Our own beloved Stevie is one of the very same and so are a lot of other fine, upstanding people that I know.

[gldstwmn]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gypsysara
[B] As far as our economy goes... well the Federal Reserve was enacted by an ILLEGAL vote, "claiming" the necessary radification was legal and legit - however upon further examination of legislation records, was found only 2 states voted "yes" to create said Reserve.


The Fed and Alan Greenspan are the only thing keeping this economy limping along right now.:confused:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
Well, I still think he sips Bacardi when Rummy isn't looking and lights the pipe when Fleischer has a light!! :laugh: :laugh:

Is that why Ari quit?:laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Vianna

I am glad I am not alone in my dislike of the present administration and the way things are going=:-)

Now, the big question-how are we going to get him out of there in 2004????We've got to!



Howard Dean?:shrug: I suppose someone could trot out Ross Perot again.:laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Well Sharon, you can take you advanced degree and wave it in front of the $6.50/hr employees and laugh. It's something they'll never have the money to achieve.


You can do anything you set you mind to. Attitude is everything.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I know. It always kills me when people say "Oh that is just too much money to spend on labor" and then they make $50 million in a year off of that labor. And you know what, I have no problem with someone being that rich or making that much money - hell I'd like to as well. My problem is only that would it kill them to make only $35 million and pay their workers $2 per hour more and give them better benefits. I mean what else will that extra $15 million buy them that they really need so much as to force their workers to work for less that they cannot get wit "just" $35 million. Greed Greed Greed!!!!!


It's the "new" American way.:(

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
You can do anything you set you mind to. Attitude is everything.

Hmm, it's funny that you post this cliche now

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Howard Dean?:shrug: I suppose someone could trot out Ross Perot again.:laugh:

Just grab him by the ear. :laugh:

No, I don't like Howard Dean. He isn't fit to be president with his attitude. My vote is going straight to Mr. John Kerry. :nod:

I think what gypsysara meant by saying that Bush is a "recovering" substance abuser is that he is not fit to be the President of the United States. That is even if he is recovering; I still have my doubts. Let's not forget that his "youthful indiscretion" happened when he was in his mid-thirties. :laugh:

[dissention]

Some quotes from Dubya:

"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."

"Actually, I -- this may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like it. When I'm talking about -- when I'm talking about myself, and when he's talking about myself, all of us are talking about me."

"Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometime until we get an objective analysis."

"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to California."

"We want our teachers to be trained so they can meet the obligations; their obligations as teachers. We want them to know how to teach the science of reading. In order to make sure there's not this kind of federal cufflink."

"The fact that he relies on facts -- says things that are not factual -- are going to undermine his campaign."

"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."

"I've changed my style somewhat, as you know. I'm less, I pontificate less, although it may be hard to tell it from this show. And I'm more interacting with people."

"You don't need to be smart to be president"

Yeah, he's a real smart cookie, that one. We should take pride in having him as our leader.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
Just grab him by the ear. :laugh:

No, I don't like Howard Dean. He isn't fit to be president with his attitude. My vote is going straight to Mr. John Kerry. :nod:



Do we get free ketchup?:laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Hmm, it's funny that you post this cliche now

As long as you think you can't, you won't.

[darklinensuit]

Dissention, I've stayed out of this post so far, but your quotes reminded me of several from Molly Ivins (Nothin' But Good Times Ahead):

George Bush Sr. :
"I mean, a child that doesn't have a parent to read to that child or that doesn't see when that child is hurting to have a parent and help out or neither parent there enough to pick the kid up and dust him off and send him back into the game at school or whatever; that kid has a disadvantage."

"Well, it appears to be a double standard to some, but I - that's my position and it's - we don't have the time to philosophically discuss it here. But we're going to opt on the side of life. And this is - that is the - that really is the underlying part of this for me. You know, I mentioned - and with really from the heart - this concept of going across the river to this little church and watching one of our children - adopted kid - be baptized. And that made for me - it was very emotional for me. It helped me in reaching a very personal view of this question. And I don't know."

Dan Quayle:
"Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is part of the United States that is an island that is right here."

"And you take the model that what a waste it is to lose one's mind, or not have a mind as being very wasteful. How true that is."

Gib Lewis, former Texas House Speaker:
"There's a lot of uncertainty that's not clear in my mind."

"This is unparalyzed in the state's history."

"We'll run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes that booger."

"It could have bad ramifistations in the hilterlands."

(To the handicapped on Disability Day)"And now, would y'all stand and be recognized?"

:D

- Jake

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Do we get free ketchup?:laugh:

:laugh:

Hell No! His wife's dead first husband's $500 million estate and his separate one billion dollar charitable trust she administers have to pay for the campaign!!!!!!!! :laugh:

But, if Kerry wins, maybe we'll get a discount on ketchup instead of a tax rebate. Note: much like the current tax cuts, the amount of your discount will be directly related to the amount you paid in. Those consuming larger quanties of ketchup in the past will get the largest discount. Also, regardless of wether they consume ketchup, those with children automatically get four free packets as a special incentive. If you have no children, you better get married first and get busy in the missionary position (which is all our govt. likes to say it sponsors) :laugh:

"Spoken like a true smart a$$" Claree in Steel Magnolias

[Vianna]

"There's a village in Texas that's missing its idiot"


LMAO!! I love it!:D :D :D

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
:laugh:

Hell No! His wife's dead first husband's $500 million estate and his separate one billion dollar charitable trust she administers have to pay for the campaign!!!!!!!! :laugh:

But, if Kerry wins, maybe we'll get a discount on ketchup instead of a tax rebate. Note: much like the current tax cuts, the amount of your discount will be directly related to the amount you paid in. Those consuming larger quanties of ketchup in the past will get the largest discount. Also, regardless of wether they consume ketchup, those with children automatically get four free packets as a special incentive. If you have no children, you better get married first and get busy in the missionary position (which is all our govt. likes to say it sponsors) :laugh:

"Spoken like a true smart a$$" Claree in Steel Magnolias

LMAO!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
As long as you think you can't, you won't.

I must agree with gldstwmn here because if you want to go to school but cannot afford to, many ways exist to pay for it (loan, scholarships, grants, work/study, nightschool, etc.). Also, affirmative action give minorites (which are not necessarily the same as the poor) have a leg up on being admitted. So, clearly, if you want to go to college but canot afford it you probably could go via one of these ways. In fact, I know many who did.

[WednesdaysChild]

Oooh, free ketchup! That's reminding me about how in the 80's, Reagan called it a vegetable and the government (I think...) was giving it to poor families. I remember being like 7 or 8 and reading a newspaper article about this poor family who was living on ketchup sandwiches...hopefully we won't be going back to that. :mad:

[darklinensuit]

Marissa, you ready for another Jersey connection?
All this ketchup talk reminds me of when in the '80s the New Jersey state legislature was pondering whether the tomato should be made the state vegetable when in fact it's a fruit.
Apparently this aroused some strong feelings on the floor.
Where are Aristotle and Socrates when our legislators are left grappling with such problems of the human condition?

- Jake
("You never promised me tomato garden...")

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
("You never promised me tomato garden...")

" . . . and oh my darling yes I like them fried"

:laugh:


Seriously, I remember reading somewhere that the nutrishional content and perhaps vitamen content are not diminished by cooking them. So, that is where they got the idea that ketchup will has valid nutrishional value.

Food for Thought (so to speak) :cool:

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gypsysara
[B]As for Dubuya, I wont even go there. He's a recovering alcholoic and cocaine user.


Wait just a minute. I don't care for President Bush at all but just what are you insinuating about being a recovering? Our own beloved Stevie is one of the very same and so are a lot of other fine, upstanding people that I know.

Hey, Im not insinuating anything, so dont make it seem as I am.

I personally couldnt give a rats *ss what anyone has ever done with drugs or alcohol, its your life, go and live it.

What disturbs me is Dubuya is being deceitful about using drugs in the past and distances himself as far as possible from his DUI (which he couldnt hide due to legal records). Stevie and other recovering (whatevers) I know are honest and forthcoming. Our PRESIDENT isnt. I would like to think I could hold the PRESIDENT of my COUNTRY to a higher standard - at least one of honesty.

Just my $0.02.

(edit) personally I feel these days, who could you elect into office that hasnt tried one drug or another? You could find someone but not many. Its the cover up and dishonesty that irks me to no end. If Dubuya used Coke a few x's, mind you wasnt an addicted theif on the streets, and was honest that'd be oK by me. BUT HE HASNT BEEN, about this among other things. Then again just my $0.02.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Hey, Im not insinuating anything, so dont make it seem as I am.


I'm not, I was asking a question.:)

[Livia]

For all you Wal-Mart haters, an oldie, but a goodie:

Things to do at Wal-Mart:

1. Pick up condom packages & randomly put them in people's carts when they aren't looking.

2. Set all the alarm clocks in housewares to go off at 5-minute
intervals.

3. Make a trail of tomato juice on the floor to the rest rooms.

4. Walk up to an employee and tell him/her in an official tone, "Code 3 in house wares," and see what happens.

5. Go to the Service Desk and ask to put a bag of M&M's on lay away.

6. Move a 'CAUTION - WET FLOOR' sign to a carpeted area.

7. Set up a tent in the camping department and tell other shoppers you'll only invite them in if they bring pillows from the bedding department.

8. When a clerk asks if they can help you, begin to cry and ask "Why can't you people just leave me alone?"

9. Look right into the security camera and use it as a mirror while you pick your nose.

10. While handling guns in the hunting department ask the clerk if he knows where the anti-depressants are.

11. Dart around the store suspiciously while loudly humming the theme from 'Mission Impossible'.

12. In the auto department practice your Madonna look using different size funnels.

13. Hide in the clothing rack and when people browse through say 'PICK ME! PICK ME!!!!!!'

14. When an announcement comes over the loud speaker assume the fetal position and scream 'NO! It's those voices again'.

And last but not least,

15. Go into a fitting room and yell real LOUD, "We're out of toilet paper in here!"

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I'm not, I was asking a question.:)

Sorry if I sounded defensive... just when you read black & white on grey, lol, it sometimes gets taken the wrong way.

For the record, I did inhale.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Livia
For all you Wal-Mart haters, an oldie, but a goodie:

Things to do at Wal-Mart:

. . . .

LMAO

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I must agree with gldstwmn here because if you want to go to school but cannot afford to, many ways exist to pay for it (loan, scholarships, grants, work/study, nightschool, etc.). Also, affirmative action give minorites (which are not necessarily the same as the poor) have a leg up on being admitted. So, clearly, if you want to go to college but canot afford it you probably could go via one of these ways. In fact, I know many who did.

Right, are any of you in college right now? How about in places were tuition rises nearly 20% every year? I'm happy you know people who were successful at funding for themselves but clearly there are limitations to which these loans and grants go. I think the key word in what you were saying is "probably" - clearly, you underestimate financial situations of college students in a recessive economy. ;)

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Right, are any of you in college right now? How about in places were tuition rises nearly 20% every year? I'm happy you know people who were successful at funding for themselves but clearly there are limitations to which these loans and grants go. I think the key word in what you were saying is "probably" - clearly, you underestimate financial situations of college students in a recessive economy. ;)

My first year of college was supposed to be in the fall of 1981, one of the worst recessions of the second half of the twentieth century and I lived on the east coast, no less. This recessive economy we are in is nothing compared to that. Hate to sound like a broken record but...

[flyfirefly]

...but that was then, and this is now.

It's completely possible to work full-time, barely pay bills, and receive little or no help from the government for school or otherwise. Happens all the time.

[gldstwmn]

Here's my point: We are responsible for creating our own reality.

[Wild Heart]

Originally posted by Livia
For all you Wal-Mart haters, an oldie, but a goodie:

Things to do at Wal-Mart:



You know, you should really type a warning before posting something that funny! I was laughing so hard I woke up my poor sleeping husband! I've still got tears running down my face!

I have refrained from commenting on this thread since it turned so political several posts back but since I'm in now I will say that I'm not particularly fond of Walmart either. I am forced to shop there though because it's the only one of three grocery stores in this small town that doesn't smell like Wild Turkey and Marlboros at any given hour on any given day. :)

Before I go further, I would like to apologize in advance to anyone from Alabama I'm about to offend. I know several great Alabamans and they tell me the funniest Alabama jokes ever heard! :lol:

I, like Sulamith, have to poke a little fun at the expense of the patrons of our local Walmart. I mean no harm but you see I live in a small town with a population of 4,000 that is three exits from the Alabama state line. We affectionately call the Super Walmart "The Zoo" not only because the chaos it houses but for the..well...interesting people who frequent it. Bless their hearts, it's like a genetic experiment gone wrong. Jeff Foxworthy could write ten more books from a few visits to this store!:laugh:

I buy my cds from Best Buy & Target so no Walmart cds for me! Looking forward to this BN thing but also like Sulamith, I'll believe it when it's screaming from my speakers!

I'll leave the political discussion to you guys especially since I think I'm the lone Republican on this board! :nod: I have to say though that the "Hillary for President" and "conservative media" comments did give me a good hardy chuckle. No stones please....I had to get a little "dig" in there somewhere! ;)

[sulamith]

Wild Heart, as you know, I agree with ya, and NO, you're not the only Republican on this board ;)!

-Sharon

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Right, are any of you in college right now? How about in places were tuition rises nearly 20% every year? I'm happy you know people who were successful at funding for themselves but clearly there are limitations to which these loans and grants go. I think the key word in what you were saying is "probably" - clearly, you underestimate financial situations of college students in a recessive economy. ;)

I am not in college anymore (Oh the days when I was though!!! :laugh: ) But, I know many currently in college who are there because of loans, grants, scholarships, etc. I am pretty sure most high schools have prgrams (recuitment day, counsellors, career placement days, etc.) specifically designed to help all students who want to go find a way to go to college. I base this on my friends who have kids graduating public and private high schools. Moreover, there is always information available via the net, which public libraries provide free access to in most cities.

Moreover, the current loan programs (private and federally subsidized) are structured to meet all tuition demands - which is a whole other issue - can you say endless supply ($$$$) for limitless demand. To survive, they may have to work or participate in work-study, but many, including me, work while in college and many people take less classes because they have to work; moreover, there is always woking 9-5 in the day and night school. There also is always the option of living frugally for a few years, saving money, and then going to a less expensive college. I also know people who have done that.

A friend of mine told me a long time ago, college is not like grade school. No one forces you to go and you really have no right set by the government to be there like you do in grade school. Therefore, if you want to go, you have to find a way. Though many today probably learn this lesson before graduating high school, I think going to college is sort of like for many life's first and very important lesson on being an adult and learning how to make things happen for yourself. So, I guess my point was and is many ways exist out there for anyone who has the will but has trouble finding the way to get a college or higher degree.

[sulamith]

Hey, strandie, since I was told earlier in this thread to "take my advanced degree and wave it in front of the faces of the $6.50 an hour workers and laugh" well, I feel I can respond to this, lol!

I went to college in the 80's. I had one grant that paid part of my tuition. The rest I paid for myself. I worked two jobs and never got to do anything fun. If I wasn't studying, in class, or working, I was sleeping. There were times I was down to $2.00 in my checking account. I didn't have money in my pocket to buy a Coke out of a machine. I had friends who had jobs and weren't in College, and they spent their money on clothes, partying, and crap for their apartments while slept on a mattress on the floor (just like Stevie and Linds!) and used cardboard boxes as tables. I went to the grocery store and bought a loaf of bread, a dozen eggs, and a jar of peanut butter (the cheap stuff, GAG!) and that is all I had to eat for the week. I was poor, poor, poor, honey! Somehow, I was able to keep my eyes on the prize. I knew it was only temporary.

I know it is true that alot of folks aren't able to do what I did, for whatever reason, but I guess I feel because I went through that to get my degree, then anybody can. It made me appreciate what I have now so much more.

I also teach in a local College now, and it really hard for me to sympathize with some students who constantly poormouth and complain about how expensive school is......... all the while sitting there with perfectly manicured nails, new clothes, and a coif that costs more than my rent when I was in school. Puh-leeze. If you have to suffer and sacrifice for something, it makes it all the more meaningful.

-Sharon

[strandinthewind]

Greetings Sharon!!!!

I totally know what you mean about today's kids poormouthing. I am sure many out there are commendably working very hard and making many sacrifices to achieve their scholastic goals.

But, it can be hard to take when you see someone not doing that and complaining about money all while they have a designer bag, etc. Sadly, I know many a youth today who do this. But, hope srpings eternal and maybe they will "see the light."

The scary thing is I sound like my parents when say this :eek:

[sulamith]

Haaaaaaaah!!

Don't we sound like just a couple of old fogies?

BTW, it also helps make things easier in the way of achieveing certain life goals if one doesn't start popping out babies the moment they are phyically able to reproduce, either........

ah, well........

Kids, today.......
Lemme just crawl back over here to my rocker and Rock A Little!

hee hee!

-Sharon

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Wild Heart
I have to say though that the "Hillary for President" and "conservative media" comments did give me a good hardy chuckle. No stones please....I had to get a little "dig" in there somewhere! ;)

Yeah, it's easy enough to dismiss an entire discussion with a little "dig." But do you really have something to say? I suppose you can prove to us that the media really is liberal, like that idiot Limbaugh so loves to tell us while he uses the publicly owned airwaves to do so?

Little digs are fun and cute. But do you actually have anything to say?

[CarneVaca]

As for the college discussion, I'm pretty sure the percentage you can get in grants and loans has been reduced in proportion to the costs. In other words, while costs have gone up, the percentage you can get in low-interest loans and grants has not kept pace. And I seem to recall there were some reductions.

I was fortunate to have done quite well in high school and only had to pay for less than a quarter of my college expenses. That was in the 80s. However, even that much was too much for my parents (I was their fourth kid to go to college) so I had to borrow the money. It was a great experience and paying back the loan wasn't a huge hardship.

Still, during some semesters I worked three jobs. I was busier than I have ever been since. It was worth it.

I don't believe everyone has a chance to go to college. I have a friend who grew up in the inner city. He had no clue that he could go to college. He wasn't a particularly good student. It's hard to when you have to dodge bullets on your way home from school. But his high school coach took interest in him and helped him get into college. What if the coach hadn't come along?

So we can spew slogans all night long, but no one is truly a master of his/her destiny. If you think so, I hope you never find out otherwise. I know a lot of people who found out otherwise after the dot-com bust. Most likely you are a product of your environment and what you are exposed to in life determines what you make of this thing we call life. Sure you have a lot of say in it, but there's a confluence of forces that come together to lay the path.

[sulamith]

Well, Carne, In Georiga, as of 93, we now have the Lottery which funds the Hope Grant and the Hope Scholarship, neither of which were around when I was getting my degree.

As far as Technical Colleges which offer Associate Degrees, ANY adult in the State can go for free. The only way you CAN'T get it is if you have defaulted on a previous student loan, or you are in trouble with the IRS. Even then, the cost is only 28 dollars per credit hour plus matriculation fees. A student can take a full load for around 300 bucks in tuition. That's cheap, and less than I had to pay with a Pell Grant. There are more stipulations on the Hope money for 4-year institutions, and I can't speak for states that don't have the Lottery, but here in Georgia it's easier than ever.

-Sharon

[Vianna]

I was the first on my father's side of the family to go to college and the first to get four years on my mother's side-she got two then the Depression came and she had to leave-and it was something I wanted very badly. I was able to get a scholarship for the tuition by agreeing to teach in the public schools for 2 years, and the rest of the expenses I paid for by working in the college library. It was not easy-I had to take 6 courses a semester to get out of school in 4 years, and my parents made it very clear that 4 years was all I got. Period. Then I was to go to work.

I think you have to want college pretty badly. It's hard work academically and yes, you are treated as an adult-in other words, expected to have some sense of responsibility regarding getting your work done and showing up for class and things like that. I know it takes a lot of motivation. There are people that just don't have that motivation for that particular thing. Maybe they have it for something else, and maybe college isn't for everyone. It's one of our misconceptions in America, I think, that we all have to follow the same path.

[strandinthewind]

Amen Sharon! :cool:

Seriously, here is an article from yesterday's Atlanta Journal Constitution about what the great financial benefit the lottery (like or not ) has done for education availability in GA.

http://www.ajc.com/print/content/epaper/editions/today/news_f3314929f5dac1451052.html

[gldstwmn]

Vianna I think you have an excellent point. College is not the answer for everyone. I'm not saying that college is the be all and end all. I don't think it's fair to point fingers at people who did go and say they have a better shot in life because...
Carne, I'm sorry I couldn't phrase my slogans any more eloquently but they are truly my personal beliefs. As far as finding out otherwise, I've had plenty of otherwise so I'm not sitting here in some ivory tower. Part of succeeding in life is the belief that you actually can. There I go again.:cool:

[CarneVaca]

Sounds like Georgia has some excellent programs going. That's wonderful.

Gldstwmn, I know people who simply haven't had the opportunity, and in some cases didn't know they had the opportunity. That was my point. What we are taught to believe we can make of ourselves varies depending on our environment. Everyday I pick up my cup of coffee from very pleasant Latino and Filipino women behind the counter at my favorite caffeine station. They smile pleasantly, say, "Good morning, sir," and anticipating what I am going to order, they add, "Small coffee?"

Do you or anyone else honestly think those wonderful working-class women have the same kind of opportunity as middle-class kids in suburbab neighborhoods?

I might add that their pleasant demeanor early in the morning often sets the mood for my day. Can you imagine what they might think if they ever heard me complain about this or that in my moderately comfortable, well-lighted cubicle where I don't really break a sweat?

[Wild Heart]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Yeah, it's easy enough to dismiss an entire discussion with a little "dig." But do you really have something to say? I suppose you can prove to us that the media really is liberal, like that idiot Limbaugh so loves to tell us while he uses the publicly owned airwaves to do so?

Little digs are fun and cute. But do you actually have anything to say?

No Carne I don't have anything to say. As I said in my post I have no intention of discussing politics with anyone on this board and will not get into a mudslinging political debate. I think there are other boards on the net that are better places for those discussions. The comment you quoted was meant as a lighthearted friendly jab, that's all. Don't go postal on me! :D

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by CarneVaca

Gldstwmn, I know people who simply haven't had the opportunity, and in some cases didn't know they had the opportunity. That was my point. What we are taught to believe we can make of ourselves varies depending on our environment. Everyday I pick up my cup of coffee from very pleasant Latino and Filipino women behind the counter at my favorite caffeine station. They smile pleasantly, say, "Good morning, sir," and anticipating what I am going to order, they add, "Small coffee?"

Do you or anyone else honestly think those wonderful working-class women have the same kind of opportunity as middle-class kids in suburbab neighborhoods?



Well Carne, how do you know that these women don't OWN the caffeine station? Maybe that speaks more to your view of women. Now don't get in a dander, I'm just busting your chops. The reason those women are here from another country (God bless them) is because that was what they wanted. They believed they could do that and they did it. I'm sure they worked damn hard, too.
Do I think they have the same opportunities as middle class kids? No I don't because they're not middle class suburban kids. They do have the opportunity to start a business, go to school, change occupations, etc. It sounds to me from your description as though they are satisified with their position in the world. If they're not happy and they're not doing anything about it, that's on them.
I do think you are right about some people not know about their opportunities. But isn't it up to them to find out?
For the record, I was blue collar up until about two years ago.

[Sugar]

As far as I know flylirefly never expressed a desire to go to college, so this may all be for naught. I, for one, went to a small liberal arts college that ONLY gives out need based scholarships, and I got quite a bit, but I still had to work all through college. My niece wants to go to college, but my sister is on welfare and has been raising the kids on her own with no child support, so I'm not sure how that's gonna happen. We're lucky in this area to have an excellent community college, so I keep telling my niece that she may have to start out there and transfer later. What the hell, her diploma won't look any different than that of anyone who was there for 4 years. Almost makes me wish I did the same thing!

When I was editing for Petersen's Guides I learned that there are options for low-income people to go to college. There's a college in KY (Beara or something?) that is free for anyone who gets accepted. I actually heard on NPR, I think last year, that there's a college in a farming community in Misourri that has started taking pigs (yes, real. live, oink oink, pigs!) as tuition! Some people have more hurdles than others, sure, but the options are out there.

[Sugar]

And another thing...:laugh:

I too am sick of EVERY kid being pushed into college because other options are poorly presented. Some of the dumbest people I've ever met I met in college and probably never should have been there! Conversely, I just got done putting an addition on our house, and I paid a bunch of intelligent, skilled people who never went to college a lot of money to do it! Believe me, there's been more than one day I've been staring at my computer at work on a beautiful day wondering if I wouldn't rather be a carpenter!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Sugar
And another thing...:laugh:

I too am sick of EVERY kid being pushed into college because other options are poorly presented.

I know. I am just so torn because I think college allows people to free their minds as opposed to going straight from high school to the workplace. But, I do know it is not for everyone. In fact, I learned that when I was in college. It just killed me to see people refute the path that had been so obvious to me at that time as the "only" path. What I did not realize was it was the only path for me. Interestingly, despite my seemingly prophetic sermons to one of my friends that went something like this "You idiot - You are going to dig ditches for the rest of your life and die young and broke without an education" (hey - I was 19 give me a break :laugh: ) - he is now a multi millionaire. He got that way based on skills he learned in the oil fields on and off shore in Louisiana and he could not have developed his new process which made him so rich anywhere else. So, now who is eating crow. We laugh about it often! :laugh: :cool:

[DownOnRodeo]

I totally disagree with them selling guns too (the same reason I hate K-Mart).
OMG - <b>K-Mart</b> sells <b>guns</b> in the US? Wtf.

:distress:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
OMG - <b>K-Mart</b> sells <b>guns</b> in the US? Wtf.

:distress:

That is why Rosie O'Donnell gave her $10 or million ad fee to charity. Now THAT took balls!!!!!! :laugh:

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by Sugar
As far as I know flylirefly never expressed a desire to go to college, so this may all be for naught.

I'm in college. Not that the above had anything to do with anything, but yeah, I was in the top 10% of my graduating class, got distinguished honors, et al. I was in various organizations, and after filling out about half a million scholarship applications was consequently denied all of them. I got into an Ivy League school but couldn't go because the government wasn't providing me with enough money (loans aren't everything, and you can only get so much), so I went to a medium-sized liberal arts school in the middle of Tennessee, the < insert sarcasm> education capital of the world < /end sarcasm>, because it was in-state, which makes the tuition about 10 to 13,000 dollars less depending on wherever else I was planning to go. So now, in addition to financial restraints put on my family by the government again (this is what happens when a member of your family goes to war for an "indefinite" period of time), my Mother works full time, I work full time, and I may have to drop out next semester because we can't afford to make any more loan payments.

But, yeah I guess everyone does have an equal opportunity to go to college and better themselves (should that be their goal), but I had a 14% tuition raise last year, and a 16.5% one this year. That's fair enough for everyone.

[Lisa]

Originally posted by sulamith I know it is true that alot of folks aren't able to do what I did, for whatever reason, but I guess I feel because I went through that to get my degree, then anybody can.

I personally think it's great that you were fortunate enough to be able to do that, but that still doesn't give you the right to look down upon other people who aren't as highly educated as you and/or who care about saving their pennies. For someone who was so poor once, I would think you would be more understanding of those who prefer to shop at stores whose prices are lower than others.

My husband and I have an M.S. apiece (and the student loan debt to prove it), but that doesn't make us any better people than those who don't. It doesn't make us any richer either ;)

-Lisa

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
OMG - <b>K-Mart</b> sells <b>guns</b> in the US? Wtf.

:distress:

Yeah they do or they did. I don't know anymore. There's a movie called Bowling For Columbine which addresses that very subject.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by Sugar
And another thing...:laugh:

I too am sick of EVERY kid being pushed into college because other options are poorly presented. Some of the dumbest people I've ever met I met in college and probably never should have been there! Conversely, I just got done putting an addition on our house, and I paid a bunch of intelligent, skilled people who never went to college a lot of money to do it! Believe me, there's been more than one day I've been staring at my computer at work on a beautiful day wondering if I wouldn't rather be a carpenter!

Now i'm a fairly intelligent person who has consistantly been obsessed with achieving goals and working toward a career. However, because I couldn't afford to go to a big name school, I had to go to county college for two years. People would ask me, "oh, where do you go to school?" and when I replied with _________ County College, they'd have this look of "oh, i'm sorry," on their faces as though to say I must not have a brain in my head. Needless to say, many of those who went off to college in my high school ended up in county several months later because they partied too much and probably never should have gotten into college in the first place. There's nothing wrong with spending two years at a county college and I'm tired of people thinking there is. I received a decent education and was able to complete my core courses for a fraction of the cost that most people spend to take and fail out at some schools.

Right now, i'm in a rather difficult position. I'm 19, an only child, I live with my parents, I have a car and a cell phone and I make $7.35 per hour working in retail 35-40 hours per week. I applied to Ithaca College, Rider University, Montclair State and Emerson College and was accepted to all of them. I won't be receiving financial aid based on what my parents make and they REFUSE to help me fund ANYTHING and they don't make so much that they can help me out either.

Emerson is the school that I have decided upon because it's best for me as far as what my major is. Tuition at Emerson is currently $30,000 per year. Housing is not available to transfer students who I am told make up 55% of the student population at the school. The cost of an apartment in Boston, MA is $600-$800 per month not including amenities such as electric, phone, water etc. This also does not include my transportation around the city. However, we live in a world where i'm told if I do not seek the best education possible that I will not be able to obtain the career of my desire.

Channel One news (a channel shown across the country in junior high and high schools on closed circuit TV) is currently seeking an anchor and experience is not required. I have experience. However, you must be in school in order to apply. I cannot afford to go to school and it's too late for me to get in anywhere for the fall. I have to take a year off, find someone who will hire me full time in a job market that currently sucks without anything but an associates degree and concurrently figure out how to emancipate from my parents so that I may receive some sort of aid. This is the story of my life and the story of a lot of other college students. College is for me but I can't go. The buisness (and it is a buisness) of college and higher education is RIDICULOUS. That's my rant. I'm not happy these days and it's causing me many a sleepless night because I don't know how i'm going to react not being in school.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
They do have the opportunity to start a business, go to school, change occupations, etc. It sounds to me from your description as though they are satisified with their position in the world. If they're not happy and they're not doing anything about it, that's on them.
I do think you are right about some people not know about their opportunities. But isn't it up to them to find out?
For the record, I was blue collar up until about two years ago.

Hey, congratulations on your new shirt! That's great, and I mean that.

My point is that I know for a fact a lot of immigrants don't realize that college is an option for them. Not when they first get here anyway. That goes for a lot of inner-city youths, and I'm sure some rural poor as well.

I should have said "young women." They are all about 20 or so. And damn, do they make the best coffee in Penn Station.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
I'm in college. Not that the above had anything to do with anything, but yeah, I was in the top 10% of my graduating class, got distinguished honors, et al. I was in various organizations, and after filling out about half a million scholarship applications was consequently denied all of them. I got into an Ivy League school but couldn't go because the government wasn't providing me with enough money ...

But, yeah I guess everyone does have an equal opportunity to go to college and better themselves (should that be their goal), but I had a 14% tuition raise last year, and a 16.5% one this year. That's fair enough for everyone.


Look at the first half of that quote. How can you follow that with your "equal opportunity" statement? No such thing. While most of us may have an opportunity to go to college, it sure as hell ain't equal. And once you get out, it gets even harder for some.

OK, I had a similar situation. I was in the top 5 percent of my HS class, which was fairly sizable. I applied to two schools. I never liked to mess around. Two was enough, and I knew I'd be accepted at both. I was. One was waaaaay too expensive, and even with financial aid, I would have been saddled with a bigger debt than I would have wanted. The second one was just right. And you know something? I don't really think I gave up anything from an education standpoint. Of course, it would have been cool to hang out in Boston through my college career, but as it happened, I spent four years in beautiful Western Massaschusetts.

Years later, I took Mrs. Carne to an event up there. A bunch of my professors were there, and we caught up on things. On the way back, Mrs. Carne said: "Wow, you had such a great experience in college. Your professors really seem to care about the students. I wish I'd gone there." Or something to that effect.

I'm not sure I would have gotten that kind of care at the other school. And mind you, I went to a 20,000-student school. So I learned as much, if not more, outside the classroom as inside.

And here's the point I've been working toward: When I was working in dailies, I wanted to make the jump to a large metro paper. I was passed up several times. But I saw folks who had less experience than I apply and get into big-name papers. The difference? (OK, one could always argue they were better, but I know damn well I was just as good or better.) They had degrees from Columbia, Harvard, etc.

So is it equal? No. Eventually I had to adjust my career path. I ended up making a lot more money as a journalist than I thought was possible when you're not on TV. The bust of a couple of years ago mandated another adjustment. Now my career is only so important. Other things have taken priority: my family and a couple of hobbies that allow me to exercize the kind of creativity I can't at work.

It worked out. And I am not complaining. No way. But please don't tell me it's an equal situation for us all.

By the way, I agree that not everyone should go to college. I've spent quite a bit of time over the past week painting and redecorating a certain room in the house. Boy, has that been fun. Sweaty, but fun. It's nice to work with your hands and doing it over until you get it right.

[strandinthewind]

For the record, I do not think I ever argued everyone has an equal chance of attending college. I am just saying that the way I have read most if not all grade and high schools are structured nowadays, pupils are educated about options for college. Some even offer counseling on whether they are a good candidate for college and also offer to educate the parents in this area.

Note: that in no way guarantees they will be accepted into a private or state college or that they will be able to afford it if they do. While loans are great for some, the thought of graduating and with a $100,000 outstanding loan (about $800 or more a month) with a degree that at best will get you a $40,000 a year job is horrifying to most. I mean that leaves you with about $1,200 to $1,500 (depending on the state) a month to spend after taxes and the loan payment. Thus, many people who are accepted by big name private schools opt to go to a much less expensive state school.

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Look at the first half of that quote. How can you follow that with your "equal opportunity" statement?

Do I have to put the < insert blatant sarcasm> notice everywhere? And, just for the sake of saying so, I never said it was a major heartache that I didn't go to an Ivy League school, but that's just how it happened.

& I'm just so happy some of you had your incredible experiences at college, I've had a few good ones myself. That's not even the point, what's the point in good experiences if you have to think about dropping out because you don't make enough?

originally posted by strandinthewind
I am just saying that the way I have read most if not all grade and high schools are structured nowadays, pupils are educated about options for college

Also realize, that if a state has budget problems, education is the first to go. There is no value placed on these counselors or on programs to make anyone "well rounded" In many cases, buildings are falling apart and teachers are so bitter they'd rather tell their students to give up than motivate them to move forward.

[sulamith]

Lisa, I'm not LOOKING DOWN on anybody except people who choose not to look at the big picture.

My rant with Walmart is that they have FOOLED people into thinking they have the lowest prices in town and that they are good for communities.

They are neither.

-Sharon

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by flyfirefly


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
originally posted by strandinthewind
I am just saying that the way I have read most if not all grade and high schools are structured nowadays, pupils are educated about options for college
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Also realize, that if a state has budget problems, education is the first to go. There is no value placed on these counselors or on programs to make anyone "well rounded" In many cases, buildings are falling apart and teachers are so bitter they'd rather tell their students to give up than motivate them to move forward.


__________________



Other than orphans and despite any funding in schools, I think the parents also have a responsibility here as well. Moreover, I just think that in today's world and as advanced in all other areas as high schoolers are as opposed to just 20 years ago, the thought of someone not even having an inkling of the ability to go to college is unreal unless they have no communication with the outside world or are the brand new non-English speaking immigrants Carne suggested. I mean between parents, the Church, the net, newspapers, magazines, television, advertising flyers (yes I have seen these), and friends, surely every high school student must have at least an idea that college might be worth looking into.

Also, and I know I am going to get flamed for this, if a teacher is not doing their job no matter how frustrated they get because of budget constraints, they should be made to do their job or fired OR they should seek another profession. I mean imagine if a doctor or nurse got so fed up with a particular hospital that they did not do out of spite what you were counting on them to do prior to your surgery. I think most if not all people would insist they be fired on the spot. I mean I feel their pain regarding the lack of financial support and think the behavior of most toward funding education is horrible. But, I have to say who doesn't get fed up in their job and not want to perform well. Yet, somehow I and many others seem to do it. Moreover, I really think that the press given to the lack of financial support for our schools prevents anyone who has become a teacher in the last 15 or so years cannot from saying with a straight face say they expected adequate funding.

Note: be nice in the flaming :cool: :laugh:

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
For the record, I do not think I ever argued everyone has an equal chance of attending college. I am just saying that the way I have read most if not all grade and high schools are structured nowadays, pupils are educated about options for college. Some even offer counseling on whether they are a good candidate for college and also offer to educate the parents in this area.

Note: that in no way guarantees they will be accepted into a private or state college or that they will be able to afford it if they do. While loans are great for some, the thought of graduating and with a $100,000 outstanding loan (about $800 or more a month) with a degree that at best will get you a $40,000 a year job is horrifying to most. I mean that leaves you with about $1,200 to $1,500 (depending on the state) a month to spend after taxes and the loan payment. Thus, many people who are accepted by big name private schools opt to go to a much less expensive state school.

They have 3 types of classes for you to choose from in high school.....remedial (which you are put into), college preparitory, and honors and advanced placement (which you are reccomended for) so basically, there aren't many options. I will say this of the school I graduated from... there was an opportunity to go to Vo Tech for part of the day once you got into 11th grade. Most of the kids that went were behavioral problems but whatever, they had a place to go and learned a trade but since a lot of the behavioral problems went there, it had a negative wrap and I think this disswayed people from going there. As far as counselors in high school go? I'm sorry to any of you who may be a counselor but based on my experience and the experience of the friends that I have that went to other schools, they are the biggest waste of money that a school system could possibly have. I can't say they helped me prepare for anything. They basically would call you down once a year and say, "how are you doing?" LAME.

What I get pissed about is that here I am, living in a middle class family and not being able to afford to go to school. I would almost rather be dirt poor or incredible rich because it seems nowadays, that's what you have to be in order to go to school. I know how much college costs now. God forbid If I have children...I don't even want to know what the cost of college will be by then.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Moreover, I just think that in today's world and as advanced in all other areas as high schoolers are as opposed to just 20 years ago, the thought of someone not even having an inkling of the ability to go to college is unreal unless they have no communication with the outside world or are the brand new non-English speaking immigrants Carne suggested. I mean between parents, the Church, the net, newspapers, magazines, television, advertising flyers (yes I have seen these), and friends, surely every high school student must have at least an idea that college might be worth looking into.

Ok, let's take everything out except television, Strand. No church, no net, no magazines. Parents? Let's say one parent. Now, let's say that parent has no job. Or has a job but it pays very little that it's hard to make ends meet. Or the parent is an alcoholic or a junkie.

Still think it's impossible for the child to realize he/she has no opportunity? Put yourself in the situation. Turn on the television. None of what you see on the screen can possibly apply to your own situation. To you, it is an impossibility. It's a mindset borne of circumstances.

Believe me, it happens. It's hard to understand that because it's very hard to try to imagine the situation. FDR was shocked the first time he saw people living in shacks. Coming from a priviledged family, he didn't realize that kind of thing existed. Eleanor, on the other hand, was able to push a lot of social change, getting her husband to agree on many of her proposals, because she was able to put herself in the position of the people who needed that change so badly.

I mean imagine if a doctor or nurse got so fed up with a particular hospital that they did not do out of spite what you were counting on them to do prior to your surgery. I think most if not all people would insist they be fired on the spot.

Obviously you haven't watched "Scrubs." ;)

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Of course, it would have been cool to hang out in Boston through my college career, but as it happened, I spent four years in beautiful Western Massaschusetts.


Can you name a beautiful place in Western Mass? :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Can you name a beautiful place in Western Mass?

Dozens.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


Dozens. [/B]

I was only joking with ya, Carne. :D

Maybe it's because I was born in Western Mass and lived there until May, but I just hated it. The unemployment rate is terrible, the governor is an abomination, I swear it must be the capital for drug dealers and sexual offenders, and the people are just rude. I lived there so long that I became jaded to it being a nice place. :laugh:

What part of Western Mass did you live in?

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by dissention
I was only joking with ya, Carne. :D


I know you were kidding. I was in Amherst. I loved it. But I'm sure it's quite a different experience from growing up in Springfield, Holyoke or one of the small towns around there. But there are beautiful spots all over that area. Go further West to the Berkshires, and you'll find even more.

Don't get me wrong. I'll take the coast any day over Western Mass. But it was fun for four years.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I know you were kidding. I was in Amherst. I loved it. But I'm sure it's quite a different experience from growing up in Springfield, Holyoke or one of the small towns around there. But there are beautiful spots all over that area. Go further West to the Berkshires, and you'll find even more.

Don't get me wrong. I'll take the coast any day over Western Mass. But it was fun for four years.

Yeah, the Berkshires are beautiful. I used to go up there all the time to the outlets. :) Westfield is one of the nicer cities in Western Mass, too. The ole Whip City.

Springfield is just disgusting. The mayor is crooked and the crime there is sickening. One of the police officers was arrested the other day for selling crack cocaine! The city is so overpopulated that there isn't enough housing. Its federal building also won't allow you to wear anti-war or Bush pins. They'll have you removed. Holyoke is another story. I won't even drive through Holyoke without having my doors locked and windows up. :laugh: The new police chief is really tough and it's slowly getting a teeny bit better, but it just sickens me. It's the ghetto if there ever was one. ;)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
. . . FDR was shocked the first time he saw people living in shacks.

I know what he and you mean. In July 1999, I went up the Amazon River at Iquitos, Peru and into the tributary rivers where my group distributed school supplies to the Yagua (sp?) Indians and the other tribes there. While the surroundings are breathtakingly beautiful, talk about a culture shock. No running water and they live in these open air huts that are raised about ten or more feet off of the ground on poles because the earth of the village has about six feet of water over it for about three or four months a year. And then there are the countless, endless, and hungry bugs, children with bellies full of worms, etc.! Believe me, it makes you realize and appreciate all that you have and all that others in the world do not. :cool:

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Also, and I know I am going to get flamed for this, if a teacher is not doing their job no matter how frustrated they get because of budget constraints, they should be made to do their job or fired OR they should seek another profession.

I don't think this warrants a flame. But if teachers aren't getting paid enough, it's not like there's going to be a long line of others waiting for their jobs. A long line of qualified others. I'd be surprised if everyone on this board couldn't think of 2 or more teachers (in high school alone) who fit this description. Some you can't fire--they have tenure, and it works just like that. Basically, teachers aren't hired to care, they're hired to teach, and when that gets old, the kids suffer. But there's not really anything that can be done.

[Lisa]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Ok, let's take everything out except television, Strand. No church, no net, no magazines. Parents? Let's say one parent. Now, let's say that parent has no job. Or has a job but it pays very little that it's hard to make ends meet. Or the parent is an alcoholic or a junkie.


It's also very hard for kids to care about themselves and their future when they're coming from a household such as that, and it happens much more often than it should.

My husband is a public school teacher and coach. One evening after practice, one of his kids missed the activity bus and called home for a ride. His mom, at home, refused to go pick him up. This kid was preparing to walk 5+ miles home along a four lane highway when my husband ran into him in the parking lot and gave him a ride. Another student told my husband that his parents wouldn't be attending back to school night, where the parents have one-on-one time with all of their childs teachers to discuss their progress, because Drew Carey was on tv at the same time. Nice messages from the parents as to what's important in life, eh?

-Lisa

[Lisa]

Originally posted by sulamith My rant with Walmart is that they have FOOLED people into thinking they have the lowest prices

Oh, I see. I knew I was never really all that good at math, and this certainly proves it. So when the Wal-Mart price on a pack of Luvs diapers is $2 less than the grocery store price for the exact same product, that really means what? I'm somehow being fooled into thinking the Wal-Mart price is less? Guess I should have taken economics.

I certainly understand the big picture, and acknowledge that Carne made very valid points about the perversity of the whole Wal-Mart business. However, we sometimes have to choose between doing what is immediately more beneficial for our families, and what may be, in the long run, for the greater good of society as a whole. At this point in my life, I need to shop on a budget to save as much money as I can for my future and that of my children. I, quite literally, can not afford to make a social statement or protest over this issue by refusing to shop at Wal-Mart.

-Lisa

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Hey, congratulations on your new shirt! That's great, and I mean that.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Thank you, I needed that today.

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by Lisa
Oh, I see. I knew I was never really all that good at math, and this certainly proves it. So when the Wal-Mart price on a pack of Luvs diapers is $2 less than the grocery store price for the exact same product, that really means what?

You make a good point. Doesn't Wal-Mart price match? In my experience if you find an ad in the paper or wherever, they'll take the lowest price for the exact same product.

[sulamith]

I have price compared, and on many things they are not the lowest.

Besides, most of their products are cheaply made, NOT in the USA as they like to tout, and their kids clothes fall apart after a couple of washings..........

Yeah, THAT'S a money saver alright. As I already said, I save more money, time, effort and grief now that I don't go to that hell hole anymore.

Did I also mention that a few years ago, I shopped for my very young children's Christmas early, before everything got picked over, put it on layaway at Walmart so it wouldn't be at the house........and two weeks before Chrsitmas.....they "lost" it all. What a thrill that was. I hope whichever Walmart employee stole
it had a peachy time that year.

Look, if you LOVE Walmart, fine keep going there. I hope it's the highlight of your week.

I got other things to do.

-Sharon

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by sulamith
As I already said, I save more money, time, effort and grief now that I don't go to that hell hole anymore.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I feel the same way about so many places!!!!!! :cool:

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by sulamith

Did I also mention that a few years ago, I shopped for my very young children's Christmas early, before everything got picked over, put it on layaway at Walmart so it wouldn't be at the house........and two weeks before Chrsitmas.....they "lost" it all. What a thrill that was. I hope whichever Walmart employee stole
it had a peachy time that year.

Look, if you LOVE Walmart, fine keep going there. I hope it's the highlight of your week.

I got other things to do.

-Sharon

That really sucks....and it reminds me of a horrid story I read in our newspaper around Christmastime...

There was some Wal-Mart store that had a Toys for Tots drop box...you know where people drop UNWRAPPED toys for needy children....well the lady who ran the program for her area was told by many friends that the box at the Wal-Mart was really filling up...so she happily went to empty it....only to find it empty when she got there...!!

She complained to the store manager who told her it was he who ordered all of the toys to be put back on the shelves because nothing in it was wrapped and therefore things could have been stolen from the store and put in there...never mind that the box was after the entry..meaning there were security thingies by them....I was livid when I read that, then Wal-Mart did nothing for Toys for Tots..no appology...nothing...jerks!!!

[flyfirefly]

Originally posted by sulamith
I have price compared, and on many things they are not the lowest.

Besides, most of their products are cheaply made, NOT in the USA as they like to tout, and their kids clothes fall apart after a couple of washings..........


Not price compare, price match. They have to be the lowest if you show find evidence that another store is selling the same item for less. That's not a new concept, that's what they do.

Oh, and ITS WAL-MART! I don't think it's ever had a reputation of being the place to get 100%-will-never-ever-fall-apart clothes. It's on discount. :rolleyes:

[WednesdaysChild]

It's not my favorite place to go--too many damn smiley faces (LOL), it's always crowded no matter when you go, long lines, sucky staff, STRANGE people, etc.

I have found that most of the clothes I've bought there have held up pretty well. Then again, I bought sweaters at the Gap for $40 that got holes in them the first time I washed them. It all depends on who made that article of clothing...especially since most of the clothes in the world are made using cheap labor.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by WednesdaysChild
Then again, I bought sweaters at the Gap for $40 that got holes in them the first time I washed them. It all depends on who made that article of clothing...especially since most of the clothes in the world are made using cheap labor.

Ditto on the Gap. The quality has definitely gone downhill there. Besides, all those goofy clothes the kids go over there to buy don't really suit me anymore.

[WednesdaysChild]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Ditto on the Gap. The quality has definitely gone downhill there. Besides, all those goofy clothes the kids go over there to buy don't really suit me anymore.

YES! So glad to see someone else sees this. They used to have such classic, normal clothes...now it's trendy beyond words and poor quality--for more money, though...

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by WednesdaysChild
It's not my favorite place to go--too many damn smiley faces (LOL), it's always crowded no matter when you go, long lines, sucky staff, STRANGE people, etc.

I have found that most of the clothes I've bought there have held up pretty well. Then again, I bought sweaters at the Gap for $40 that got holes in them the first time I washed them. It all depends on who made that article of clothing...especially since most of the clothes in the world are made using cheap labor.

Bleh to the GAP.....I remember two years ago, I got a sweater for Christmas that they were advertising on TV non-stop. It was tan, wool, and it had a hood on it. I thought it was the cutest thing. Well, we washed it by hand and it shrank to barbie doll proportions. I took it back and they were like, oh, we've been having some issues with this. Uh. Then why are you still advertising the hell out of the sweater and why haven't you pulled them off the shelf yet??? GAP....overpriced. If I wanted stuff that fell apart after a few washes, i'd buy from their sister store, Old Navy...their stuff doesn't last that long and they're getting a little pricey with their stuff :nod:

[WednesdaysChild]

So...who sells clothing that is durable but not ridiculously overpriced? :confused:

[sulamith]

For me, I again say, FOR ME, I would have to say Target has the best deals, at least on kids clothes.

I also buy alot of my boys clothes at the Gap when they are having their seasonal sales, and I have had good luck with those two. As those of you who have boys know, they are hard on clothes.

It is hard to find things for boys. I like just plain classic clothes, and alot of stores have stuff for boys that is just plain homely, rather than classic. I hate all that writing and logos and crap all over everything.

Target and the Gap work great for us becaue we just want pocket tees, button-downs, jeans, and khakis.

DrummerDeanna, I know what you are talking about, it was awful, I agree. Another nail in the Walmart coffin!
As for my case, of cousre they couldn't replace anything I had bought because it was all sold out. I know alot of people who have had their layaways similarly "lost" at Walmart.
Piece'o'crap store that it is.

-Sharon

[WednesdaysChild]

Sharon--

I agree. My godson is 7 and I hate buying clothes for him. Every thing has stupid tv characters on it or dumb sayings or "brands" like Tommy, Polo, Nautica, etc. He's only 7! He doesn't know what half that stuff is. Fortunately, he's in Catholic school wearing uniforms every day, but next year he's going to public school--my poor poor aunt (his mom) :eek:

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by sulamith
For me, I again say, FOR ME, I would have to say Target has the best deals, at least on kids clothes.

I also buy alot of my boys clothes at the Gap when they are having their seasonal sales, and I have had good luck with those two. As those of you who have boys know, they are hard on clothes.

It is hard to find things for boys. I like just plain classic clothes, and alot of stores have stuff for boys that is just plain homely, rather than classic. I hate all that writing and logos and crap all over everything.

Target and the Gap work great for us becaue we just want pocket tees, button-downs, jeans, and khakis.

DrummerDeanna, I know what you are talking about, it was awful, I agree. Another nail in the Walmart coffin!
As for my case, of cousre they couldn't replace anything I had bought because it was all sold out. I know alot of people who have had their layaways similarly "lost" at Walmart.
Piece'o'crap store that it is.

-Sharon

I love Target....their clothes are inexpensive but will last for a while and if they fall apart within 90 days, you can return them w/the receipt and get your money back, no questions asked (insert Stevie singing here..lol). I'm also really big on H&M...they have A LOT of clothes for EVERYONE at a really cheap price. I just picked up a really cute linen pant suit outfit the other night for $50. They have casual, trendy, dressy, EVERYTHING at low prices.

[darklinensuit]

I've never received good customer service at a Wal-Mart, so I wouldn't buy gum there. I can't state that all Wal-Marts offer poor service, but I've had enough bad experiences to make me stay away forever. I know the staff pay is poor, but that's no excuse if you want my business, especially when you tout yourselves in the commercials as the place with the friendly & helpful staff.

- Jake

[GardenStateGirlie]

I've been to Walmart once and after going, I realized why I had never made the trek 25 minutes from my house to the store. It was the dirtiest most unkept place i'd ever been to. Even the floor was dirty...it looked as though it hadn't been cleaned in months. **** was piled all over the floors in boxes and none of the sections of merchandise were uniform (meaning that stuff was stocked in a section with other crap). I don't know about Walmart but at my store, we have to clean and front the shelves all the time, including during the day when customers are in the store. I guess when you're company makes billions of dollars a year and are up there with Bill Gates on the Forbes list, you're not giving a **** unless people stop shopping there. I'd take Target and Kohls over Walmart any day of the week. The smiley guy is the only good thing about the store...lol:)

[Lisa]

Originally posted by sulamith Besides, most of their products are cheaply made, NOT in the USA as they like to tout, and their kids clothes fall apart after a couple of washings..........[/i]

I'm not one who buys something because of that country it's made in (oooh, so unpatriotic :rolleyes: ) so that kind of thing doesn't bother me. Not a lot of big companies do make all their products in the US. My kids and I have many items of clothing from Wal-Mart, and have never had a problem with any of it, unless you count the fact that my kids grow too damn fast and the clothes don't grow with them.

Maybe you should learn to sew ;)

Target has a good clothing selection, but it's also more pricey than Wal-Mart, and they don't have a grocery store. What groceries they do have are very expensive. The closest Target is also 25 minutes away from me, so it's not exactly convenient.

Look, if you LOVE Walmart, fine keep going there.

Thanks ever so much!! Your experiences there were certainly crappy, but that still doesn't entitle you to insinuate that we who do shop there are stupid just for doing so.

I got other things to do.

Me too, that's one reason why I shop there instead of running around to three different stores to get what I need at decent prices.

-Lisa

[darklinensuit]

Target in Houston has a grocery store, but to be honest, I don't shop there. Nothing against the place.

- Jake

[sulamith]

I DO know how to sew, have known for years, and I also know you can't save money doing it. When I was a kid, my mom was an expert seamstress and did alterations for people. She sewed our clothes because it was cheaper to do so in those years, and now even she says it doesn't help to sew your own clothes anymore.

My comment about things being made in the US is not because I won't buy anything US made, but because WM says many things are US made when they aren't. It's false advertising, but hey, they don't care, they're Walmart. They can get away with that.

More corporate lies.

Eat it up, ya'll.

-Sharon

[Lisa]

Originally posted by sulamith ]I DO know how to sew, have known for years,

Don't get your panties in a bunch girlfriend, it was a friggin' joke. Good grief. And I thought I was the one taking this thread too seriously.

More corporate lies.

Funny you should be so outraged about this; I thought Republicans didn't care about that kind of thing.

Eat it up, ya'll.

Oy.

-Lisa - now remembering why I left these boards in the first place.

[Sarah]

Shopping at Wal-Mart is like shopping in a third world country anyway. At least, the one here is. It's freaking filthy- I have gone maybe twice in the past year, and not on my own freewill.

Target is the way to go, IMO. It just seems cleaner, brighter, and more modern.


Sarah

[flyfirefly]

This constant tossing of the word "corporate" is making me laugh a little :)

What jobs do you all have that don't support some corporation? Why drown Wal-Mart out when there are probably people stealing from you? Getting paid thousands per hour and without deadlines and quotas and stress?

Why boycott one, when you will inevitably support another? What exactly are you solving?

[sulamith]

Ah yes, and ALL Republicans are exactly the same. So are ALL Democrats. ** Insert Sarcasm here**

It's time for this thread to die, for ME anyway, because at least I found out most people also dislike Walmart. Strongly.

**Waves to fellow former Walmart shoppers**

-Sharon

[Sugar]

Originally posted by flyfirefly

Why boycott one, when you will inevitably support another? What exactly are you solving?

I suppose for me it's the lesser of two evils...kinda like voting :laugh:

I use alternate non-corporate choices when I can so, let's say, these large companies get only half of the money out of me than they would if I DIDN'T use alternative choices. Imagine if everyone did that! When I do have to shop at large corporations, I take the whole "market economy" thing very seriously. I live in suburban Philadelphia, so I have LOADS of choices of where to shop for almost anything. So if I go someplace and I get lousy service, I don't go back, even if it's closer than an alternative. But I also take ambiance, selection of goods, quality of goods, as well as price in mind when making a selection. Occasionally a social issue gets thrown in there too, and if I hear about it, I react. I mailed my Texaco card back to them when they were under investigation for racial discrimination about 5 years ago. I still don't buy gas there. I also boycott Proctor and Gamble products when I go to the supermarket. I started doing it because they test their products on animals (talk about a pointless endeavor) but now I do it just because they're so ubiquitious and I prefer to give my money to less powerful companies.

I prefer Target too! Why drown out Wal-Mart? Because it's my choice. I don't like the pseudo-fascist things I've heard about how they treat their employees and I just don't like the way I feel in the store. Is that a stupid reason? I don't really care what anyone thinks about it, it's my buck. Big corporations will always be around, but I can choose to only support ones who do things the way I like, because I'm the consumer, and that's my power. And I take that power seriously.

And I work for a small company who has large corporations as clients. I like the idea of them paying US.

:laugh:

[Sarah]

And also, Target has Todd Oldham and Swell.

Todd makes the cutest office supplies, and Swell makes good party supplies.

And stationery. Target has good stationery.


Sarah