Yust Vondering

[Anthony]

Don't hate me for this, but I must ask it....."If I may....."
Why did it take two guitarists to replace LB during this phase in the FM's history. Did two have to play on the original "Oh, well"?
What about the drumming? I don't recall Mick having a special vest hooked up to him earlier or after this FM phase or the second drummer.
Okay you vonderkins, rip me up like weasles at my flesh (Frank Zappa) and fill me in on this.

[wetcamelfood]

Uh oh, well, ChiliD can probably explain this best so I'll leave it for him but I will say in the meantime that many FM fans need to recognize that the Mac are a band that had at least 2 guitar players (even THREE at one point) at most times in their history. In fact, it was actually odd for them to have only one, the Lindsey era was the only time in the Mac's history that had just one guitarist save for the HAHTF album on which it was only Welch but that was understandable in the wake of the bogus band situation and wanting to quickly try to rebuild the band's reputation and they may have also worried about trusting a newcomer at that time too. So the question really should be "Why only one with LB?" :)

Anyways, I'm sure ChiliD will be along soon to bring you up to speed on "Why 2 after LB?" though. :)

John

[Anthony]

Man, I am such a junior-ledgie:laugh:

[chiliD]

"Why 2?":

Simple really. Billy Burnette had been playing in Mick Fleetwood's Zoo, so Mick asked him to join right after Lindsey announced his departure; since he was already familiar with many of Fleetwood Mac's tunes (the Zoo played quite a number of them); plus, Billy had worked with both Christine & Stevie on their solo projects. AND, since Billy didn't feel his own guitar style would be "enough" for Fleetwood Mac, he asked if he could bring along his pal Rick Vito, who he'd been working with on a solo project, as "the world class lead guitarist" that Fleetwood Mac required. Rick had previously worked with John McVie in John Mayall's late 70's incarnation of the Bluesbreakers, so there already was some "FMac history" there for Rick. Everybody was "on board", so there you have it. Billy's guitar playing was basically just a bonus, since the main reason he was joining was for his VOCAL ability. It's my thought that had it been the other way around and if Rick Vito would've been asked first, Billy probably (and unfortunately) never would've been in Fleetwood Mac, since Rick is a top-notch singer as well (although his best contributions to Behind The Mask were left in the can...I suspect a conspiracy & cover-up, but that's just me)

Plus, Lindsey, though the only MEMBER guitarist during his first tenure, still had Ray Lindsey play "second guitar" on a number of tunes during their live set. Also, telling is that as soon as Lindsey embarked on a solo tour, he had (including himself) FIVE guitarists on stage...and then two additional with Fleetwood Mac ever since.

I think it is also telling as to during the 1974 tour, they added a "second KEYBOARDIST" (Doug Graves initially, then Bob's old "Head West" bandmate Bobby Hunt) which left Bob Welch as the lone guitarist for the tour, the first time in Fleetwood Mac history. (not counting Danny Kirwan's last night with the band in 1972)

[strandinthewind]

Alright - I may be talking out of my league here, but didn't CM's playing of havy 70's Moog synth somewhat augment the spare sound created by the four and SN on light percussion (cowbell, tamb., etc.)?

[Anthony]

I'm taking notes now, when's the test?:laugh:
Seriously though, thanks for the info.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Alright - I may be talking out of my league here, but didn't CM's playing of havy 70's Moog synth somewhat augment the spare sound created by the four and SN on light percussion (cowbell, tamb., etc.)?

I guess, but if you think in terms of the fact that she was brought on board for the "Kiln house" tour (when there were 2 guitars (Danny & Jeremy)) then was there through more 2 guitar lineups up through to MTM then HAHTF & BN in that sense alone may have been thought of as a "thinner sound" in comparison (as you'd think if CM doing keys while they had 2 guitarist was considered "too much" then they may have then asked her (or one of the guitarist) to leave to get it back to a sound they wanted) but once the BN lineup hit it big (commercially), it doesn't seem there was much quibbling about a "thin sound" once the dough started rolling in. :)

John

[chiliD]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
I guess, but if you think in terms of the fact that she was brought on board for the "Kiln house" tour (when there were 2 guitars (Danny & Jeremy)) then was there through more 2 guitar lineups up through to MTM ...it doesn't seem there was much quibbling about a "thin sound" once the dough started rolling in. :)


I think it just depends on WHO the two guitarists were and their capabilites (or "work ethic", in Jeremy's case). As time marches on, I'm increasingly doubting the "thin sound" excuse for asking Christine to join in the first place. I think it was more for adding someone who had the temperment to FRONT a band (other than Jeremy doing his parodies, he didn't really want to front the band), Danny was DEFINITELY not a "front man", so, in Peter Green's absence, Christine was the logical choice to join and to play "emcee" during the shows...which lasted throughout her tenure. Just notice how much it is Christine who does most of the "emcee-ing" during even their 1975-82 shows.

[hildymac]

Originally posted by chiliD
I think it just depends on WHO the two guitarists were and their capabilites (or "work ethic", in Jeremy's case). As time marches on, I'm increasingly doubting the "thin sound" excuse for asking Christine to join in the first place. I think it was more for adding someone who had the temperment to FRONT a band (other than Jeremy doing his parodies, he didn't really want to front the band), Danny was DEFINITELY not a "front man", so, in Peter Green's absence, Christine was the logical choice to join and to play "emcee" during the shows...which lasted throughout her tenure. Just notice how much it is Christine who does most of the "emcee-ing" during even their 1975-82 shows.

And remember how thrilled Chris always sounded to be doing that "emcee-ing." She prefered the background too... FM really didn't get hard core flamboyant front-people until LB & Stevie, but Rik and Billy continued that trend on the tours that they were on. I don't think this is a matter of needing 2 people to replace Lindsey, this was just Mick finding 2 people who happened to fit in well with the band, and with each other.

[David]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Alright - I may be talking out of my league here, but didn't CM's playing of havy 70's Moog synth somewhat augment the spare sound created by the four and SN on light percussion (cowbell, tamb., etc.)? Christine generally didn't play a Moog, & usually avoided synthesizers & their envelope-generator patches. Not in any sense of the word could her live or studio arrangements be considered heavy. Are you referring to the B3 (which is a tone-wheel organ, not a synthesizer)?

[strandinthewind]

I have a video of sometime probably after the White Album tour but before or during Rumors. They are playing outdoors (Stevie is in Rhiannon drag_ and CM's keyboard is pretty heavy during ISA. This concert was also on the Disney special a few years ago. I thought CM instrument said Moog on it. But, I have not seen it in awhile. So, I could be wrong.

[gldstwmn]

Strand
I think Chris was a big fan of Steve Winwood who (correct me if I'm wrong) used a Moog. I always thought she was using a Roland. And David, I never saw Chris use a B3 on stage, although I would have loved it. I love the sound of it. Now I'm pretty sure Benmont Tench used a B3 on some of Stevie's tours, no? Those suckers are heavy.

[strandinthewind]

I am a little out of my league here talking about these different instruments. I just remember CM playing a Moog. I will try to find that video and look again.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I am a little out of my league here talking about these different instruments. I just remember CM playing a Moog. I will try to find that video and look again.

I'm sure at some point she did play a Moog. They were big in the mid 60's I think.

Oh and Anthony, I think MF used the vest on the Tango tour but I can't quite remember. As for the second drummer, this is the first tour I know of with them using an additional drummer. They've had a percussionist with them since either Tango or BTM. FYI, Brett Tuggle played additional keys on the BTM tour.

[chiliD]

As far as I recall, the only "synth" Chris ever had on stage was an ARP String Ensemble...which after 1975, she only played on "Sunny Side Of Heaven"...by late 1977, she'd ditched that and only had her Hohner piano & the Hammond B-3; saying (to the effect) "why cart this thing around for only one song?" (source: a 1979 Contemporary Keyboard magazine cover article), and they'd stopped playing SSoH by then anyway.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I'm sure at some point she did play a Moog. They were big in the mid 60's I think.

Oh and Anthony, I think MF used the vest on the Tango tour but I can't quite remember. As for the second drummer, this is the first tour I know of with them using an additional drummer. They've had a percussionist with them since either Tango or BTM. FYI, Brett Tuggle played additional keys on the BTM tour.

MF had the vest in the TITN tour. I saw it live and have it on the video of them that SF Cow Palace.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
They've had a percussionist with them since either Tango or BTM. FYI, Brett Tuggle played additional keys on the BTM tour.

Yeah, Isaac Assante was the percussionist on the TITN & BTM tours and I think it was Dan Garfield doing the extra keys on the TITN tour (if that's of any help to anyone). :)

John

[chiliD]

No, Brett Tuggle was the additional keyboardist on The Dance tour, not BTM.

Dan Garfield played additional keyboards on both TitN & BTM tours (as well as being THE keyboard player on Lindsey's OotC tour).

Steve Thoma was the keyboardist on the 1994/95 tour.

[David]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I have a video of sometime probably after the White Album tour but before or during Rumors. They are playing outdoors (Stevie is in Rhiannon drag_ and CM's keyboard is pretty heavy during ISA. This concert was also on the Disney special a few years ago. I thought CM instrument said Moog on it. But, I have not seen it in awhile. So, I could be wrong. I'll try to provide what I know: The sound you hear on any live performance of "I'm So Afraid" is the B3. It was the large wood thing with four legs in 1975 & 1976. Sitting on top of it during those years was an ARP String Ensemble & a Hohner Combo Pianet (or a Pianet N on occasion). You can see a picture of the String Ensemble in the photo collage on the lyric sheet in the Rumours album. She said she used to play the ARP on live performances of "Sunny Side of Heaven." The String Ensemble was dumped out of the live gear for the Rumours tour (you can hear Christine playing a B3 on "Sunny Side of Heaven" on the February 26, 1977, rehearsal). The Pianet N was ditched in favor of a new Combo Pianet (essentially the same mechanism & sound, but a smaller, more roadworthy case without the gold rim) for the 1977 tour, & the B3 was recased into a sleeker, black case with metal legs. I know of no instance during these years in which she played a Moog onstage (although she played a Mini-Moog on the white album). She was always very synth-phobic, in fact -- analog in those days & digital in the years to come. The single exception seems to be her reliance on the DX-7 for some studio work in the 1980s (this is the board she is seen playing in the "Big Love" video).

By the time they were ready to tour for "Tusk," the era of the Hohner, as far as Christine was concerned, was over. She obviously opted not to adopt the then-new Pianet T model, probably because its sound wasn't phat enough: it was more akin to the tinkly Rhodes sound, which wasn't able to cut through the mix onstage. So she switched over to a magnificent instrument built by Yamaha --- the first two-channel stereo electronic piano on the market, in fact. She set that monster (over 130 pounds) on top of her B3 & played it through two Fleetwood Mac tours & her 1984 solo tour before abandoning it.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by chiliD
No, Brett Tuggle was the additional keyboardist on The Dance tour, not BTM.

Dan Garfield played additional keyboards on both TitN & BTM tours (as well as being THE keyboard player on Lindsey's OotC tour).



Oops! For some reason, they look alike to me in my memory.