Fleetwood Mac and their drug intake [Archive]

EricBliss12345

06-29-2003, 05:50 PM

This is something I've always wondered about because I've read some rediculous stories about Fleetwood Mac and their (alledged) drug problems, and read in another thread of mine that Lindsay hated cocaine when I thought that he was on it most of the time.

I've read that by 1983 that all the members were in the throes of serious substance addiction problems, and that during Rumors they spent a fortune on Coke. I've also read that Mick spent 8 million on the stuff, which seems a little outragious to me. I also read somewhere that Lindsay was disgusted with the Tango sessions because of the rampant drug abuse.

I know it's true for Stevie and Mick, but to be honest I think Christine seems too "proper" to be a heavy drug user. I've read older interviews with her and her polite manner and shy, humble demeanor certainly doesn't indicate cocaine abuse to me. Plus, if she was a big druggie how could she still consistantly write great songs up until 1987?

To be honest how could anybody go as long as they had and put out albums and tours doing all that stuff? I was just really curious, some of the stories I've read were rediculous and I'm just curious as to which ones are true or not.

louielouie2000

06-29-2003, 06:44 PM

Don't let Christine's elegant air fool you... she did her fair share of drugs just as EVERYONE did in the band. You really only hear about Mick and Stevie's drug problems, because they made them public, and were up front about them. Christine however, has always preferred to stay somewhat in the background, and is a more private person than the latter two. I'm sure she didn't think it was "proper" as it were, to make her substance abuse public. You can watch alot of the old documentaries and footage from the mid/late 70s... and Chris is absolutely smashed in every one of them :laugh: . I think everyone in the band just went about their own ways of dealing with their drug problems, and Mick and Stevie just felt it necessary to purge their problems to the public. -Louie

Mad4stevie

06-29-2003, 06:51 PM

From what I remember reading in Mick's autobiography and other FM books:

Lindsey, Stevie and Mick were coke-heads. Stevie and Mick were the worst, I think, because it fueled everything that they did for awhile. I think this played a major part in Mick's bankruptcy and, of course, led to Stevie's hole in her nose. Lindsey used to get really mean (especially to Stevie) when he used the stuff.

I think both Christine and John were drinkers. I know that John has readily admitted to being an alcoholic and that he isn't "a very nice person" when he is drunk. I believe that was a major part of the reason that Christine left him. I think I remember reading that Christine needed a least a bottle (or more) of champagne every day just to function.

If you watch the Rumours tour video from 1977 - they are all smashed all of the time. Stevie especially is wasted. Stevie and Mick both looked pretty coked up during the Mirage tour video, as well.

dissention

06-29-2003, 07:20 PM

It wasn't so much drugs as it was booze with Chris. I read an interview with her from back in 1995 from some British newspaper and she said that she used them a bit in the seventies but not to the extent of everyone else. Then, she saw what was happening to everyone and stopped using. She said that's when she started drinking more heavily and it became an issue. I think it was by 1985 that she stopped the drinking.

Yeah, Mick blew $8 million on coke and went bankrupt because of it, only to go bankrupt again after buying bad land. He always was a bad businessman! :laugh: He looked really bad back in the eighties, REALLY bad. His eyes were all sunken in and everything.

I think Lindsey did his fare share but, unlike the others, I think he experimented with everything. ;)

FiercestCalmSea

06-29-2003, 08:13 PM

I think they all had their particular vice..I can totally see 8 million in coke though..i mean even if you don't do the stuff,it is pretty obvious it is not cheap,and it is not like they were doing some cheap stuff that was cut or something.It totally kills me that they(and alot of other people in that time) were SO f-ed up all the time..it must have been a freakin blast til they hit rock bottom...and they totally didn't know how bad it was,for real..whereas nowadays there isn't anything fun that doesn't come without a morbid warning:(

darklinensuit

06-29-2003, 08:47 PM

Elegant or not, Chris was always one of the boys & could no doubt drink with the best (or worst) of them.

I love the stories of the Buckingham Nicks days when Stevie would come home from cleaning & find Lindsey & company passed out on the floor, so she'd clean the ashtrays. Lindsey seems to have liked the weed.

- Jake

Vianna

06-29-2003, 09:40 PM

From what I can gather by reading, Mick and Stevie were into the cocaine big time-and Mick admits to having dealers meet him at the plane-I am sure 8 million and probably more went up his nose. Stevie was into the coke bad until the doctor told her she was playing around with brain damage if she didn't quit. Something about blowing a hole through her nose into her brain..

Lindsey smoked pot I know. Look at the Mirage video if you have it-you'll see him with a joint. I heard from somewhere Lindsey experimented with the coke but gave it up b/c it was "too expensive".

Chris I don't really know about.

John had an alcohol problem and eventually had an alcoholic seizure which I think probably made him think twice about his problem..

It's to their credit that thay have kicked their respective habits-I think John still drinks but not like he used to.

I had to be amused though looking at the pic that came with the album SYW-all those bottles of Perrier!! My but we have changed!

Do you all know the hash brownies story?

EricBliss12345

06-29-2003, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Elegant or not, Chris was always one of the boys & could no doubt drink with the best (or worst) of them.

I love the stories of the Buckingham Nicks days when Stevie would come home from cleaning & find Lindsey & company passed out on the floor, so she'd clean the ashtrays. Lindsey seems to have liked the weed.

- Jake

Come home from cleaning? What, did Stevie work at a Best Inn's on the side? I could see how being a full-time member of Fleetwood Mac just doesn't quite cover the water and electric bills.

But yeah my birthday bash was the other day so I got stupid and blew a couple grams and stayed up all night with a bunch of friends. I still had some left at 9 in the morning and I stayed up by myself long after everybody passed out and did it! How rediculous is that! You're like, real pissed when it's gone too.

HOwever, for me the next day it's like "OK...for my birthday this was cool, but not again for a long time!" I just don't understand why you'd want to make it a habit. I like to work out and eat healthy plus I have a job to go to every day. I don't understand how normal people can live like that or afford it.

HOwever, if I had 8 million spare bucks to blow on cocaine and my full time job was playing music in an arena for 2 hours a night for part of the year I probably wouldn't mind feeling that good every day. :laugh:

stevierocks87

06-29-2003, 10:35 PM

Stevie was a "cleaning lady" during the Buckingham Nicks days, when she worked and let Lindsey stay at home and write music because he was "so brilliant". (isn't that right everyone? ). Of course, that changed when they joined Fleetwood Mac.

So, that IS a joint Lindsey's smoking on the Mirage video...thought so. Does anyone else notice that at one point it looks like he is trying to give it to John, but its not working :laugh: Stevie is SO coked out on that show....but how she KICKED ASS!!! I love the end of SOTM....when her mumblings sounded awesome as opposed to EO17 on Red Rocks where she is just crazy in a bad way. :p

:wavey: adam :wavey:

gldstwmn

06-29-2003, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
I know it's true for Stevie and Mick, but to be honest I think Christine seems too "proper" to be a heavy drug user. I've read older interviews with her and her polite manner and shy, humble demeanor certainly doesn't indicate cocaine abuse to me. Plus, if she was a big druggie how could she still consistantly write great songs up until 1987?

Christine had an ongoing love affair with Dennis Wilson, drummer for the Beach Boys and notorious party animal. Stevie and Chris have flat out said in interviews that they used to do huge "rails" among other things. Some of FM's best work (Tusk and Rumors) was done throughout their heavy drug use period. It was the thing to do at the time.

gldstwmn

06-29-2003, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by EricBliss12345

But yeah my birthday bash was the other day so I got stupid and blew a couple grams and stayed up all night with a bunch of friends. I still had some left at 9 in the morning and I stayed up by myself long after everybody passed out and did it! How rediculous is that! You're like, real pissed when it's gone too.

HOwever, for me the next day it's like "OK...for my birthday this was cool, but not again for a long time!" I just don't understand why you'd want to make it a habit. I like to work out and eat healthy plus I have a job to go to every day. I don't understand how normal people can live like that or afford it.

:laugh:

First of all you don't make a habit out of it. It makes a habit out of you. It all starts off very insidiously. Dont' fool yourself with being able to function "normally and healthy". There are plenty of functioning alcoholics and addicts. Please don't think I'm attacking you, I'm not. You're either clean or you're not.:)

macmar71

06-29-2003, 11:10 PM

Lindsey has admitted that using coke impaired his creativity and that he preferred smoking weed. I think around Go Insane is when Linsdey cleaned up his act as far as the cocaine goes. I know he was quite disgusted with Mick and Stevie's cocaine use around the making of Tango.
Mick went bankrupt in 1984 due to all the unwise choices he made in investments, bought too much dope and I am sure he was drunk or stoned when he pissed all his cash away.
Christine and John did the drugs as well in the 70's but I agree they seemed more interested in their liquid intake. Christine looks pretty sloshed in the Tusk documentary when she is on the boat.

EricBliss12345

06-30-2003, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by gldstwmn
First of all you don't make a habit out of it. It makes a habit out of you. It all starts off very insidiously. Dont' fool yourself with being able to function "normally and healthy". There are plenty of functioning alcoholics and addicts. Please don't think I'm attacking you, I'm not. You're either clean or you're not.:)

Then my drug addiction has been "Starting insiduously" for the last 9 years! :laugh:

Actually every time I've gotten on the path to serious drug addiction I've held my horses and taken a break. When me and all my friends were big into coke 6 years ago, I was smart enough to quit before I OD'ed like my friend did. I saw it coming and got scared. My b-day was the 2nd or 3rd occasion since 6 years ago. She's alive and kickin' and drug free now, BTW. :)

Then I was big into ecstacy for a couple years. That was something that started as an occasional thing that gradually built up to once a month, to every few weeks, to every weekend and sometimes twice a week. I spent a fortune on that junk. I was also doing a LOT of crystal meth at the time (and K too) and actually spent a little time in jail on a drug charge. During the time I was in court was the worst. When I was found not guilty of the charges it lessened a little bit.

Then I got my own place. LOL That turned into a mess. During that time I was the worst ever. I did a LOT of K and still took E regularly as well. For the first time ever I was f**ked up on something for 4 months straight. It didn't hit me how bad it was until I was sitting at home, all alone, snorting K by myself. There was no party.

That was over 2 years ago and I'm still in debt to a certain creditor because of it. I moved back home and cleaned up my act and drug use has been sporadic if ever. I've even quit smoking cigarettes as of late. The last 2 years I've exercised at least 4-5 days out of the week. I always wondered if it would get as bad as it did before, but since me and every single one of my friends has grown up a lot, we realize that it's just not a realistic or acceptable way to live your life. But we do, from time to time like to "Reminice" if you will. LOL

After all these experiences with it I absolutely do not ever want to be back there again. I'm very happy where I am now. When the supply I buy is out, I stop there, go to bed and forget about it until the next very distant special occasion. :laugh:

The minute I'm famous though I'm afraid it's all over.

tommer

06-30-2003, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by EricBliss12345
But yeah my birthday bash was the other day so I got stupid and blew a couple grams and stayed up all night with a bunch of friends. I still had some left at 9 in the morning and I stayed up by myself long after everybody passed out and did it! How rediculous is that! You're like, real pissed when it's gone too.

okay, i can admit to that same sin myself. i must say cocaine is not my preferred drug, it has a great 'feel' to it, but it makes you a total ass. i don't like other people on coke, and despite the fact that when you're on it you feel like the king of the world, at least I was able to look at it from the side and figure out i'm not at my nicest behaviour and attitude.
when you go to a rave or a cool club for example, you see the ones on trips who are cool, those on E who are totally nice and fun, and those on coke who just hangs around thinking they simply OWN the whole ****en party. i just can't see the point in making a habbit of a drug which makes everything around you look pathetic.

EricBliss12345

06-30-2003, 02:16 AM

That's so funny you said that!

On my birthday I wrote a note on my left hand in pen that said "WATCH YOUR F**KING MOUTH!!!!"

It didn't work. :(

darklinensuit

06-30-2003, 02:29 AM

My goodness, what an education I'm getting. A week ago I'd never even heard of Ambien.:)

- Jake

LilyRose

06-30-2003, 03:06 AM

Oh I think they all definately dabbled in cocaine...even if not all of them got hooked.

You can see Christine snorting some off of her hand in one of the Tusk photo shoot videos (the really dark video, but you can clearly see what she's doing). So she did do it sometimes.

My question is though, for the long time fans (since I didn't become a fan until 1998). Did the fans know about their drug use in the 70s and 80s? Was it just common knowledge that since they were in the music business they must have done drugs (and I know that not everyone did). Or did no one really find out until later on?

Now, when a celebrity checks into rehab, it's all over the entertainment news shows. But when Stevie had her rehab stint was it ever front page Hollywood news?

Susie

EricBliss12345

06-30-2003, 03:28 AM

I love your Avatar LilyRose.

Somebody please tell me what kind of gum Christine's chewing in your picture. When I saw your avatar yesterday she was chewing it with the same delighted intensity as this morning. The flavor must never run out! Either that or she's so coked out that she didn't notice she had exhausted the flavor hours ago. That's probably it, the world is too cruel to have gum that never loses its flavor. :(

darklinensuit

06-30-2003, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by LilyRose
Oh I think they all definately dabbled in cocaine...even if not all of them got hooked.

You can see Christine snorting some off of her hand in one of the Tusk photo shoot videos (the really dark video, but you can clearly see what she's doing). So she did do it sometimes.

My question is though, for the long time fans (since I didn't become a fan until 1998). Did the fans know about their drug use in the 70s and 80s? Was it just common knowledge that since they were in the music business they must have done drugs (and I know that not everyone did). Or did no one really find out until later on?

Now, when a celebrity checks into rehab, it's all over the entertainment news shows. But when Stevie had her rehab stint was it ever front page Hollywood news?

Susie

There were plenty of rumors about Stevie's allegedly creative drug uses long before she went into rehab.

- Jake

LilyRose

06-30-2003, 03:48 AM

Thank you EricBliss12345. Christine is seemingly always delightfully joyful darling.

Of course it doesn't hurt that in practically every picture I've ever seen of her (professional or non), she has either a glass of wine or a cigarette, or both. :laugh:

And yes, the world is far too cruel of a place to make a long lasting flavor gum. Why must we be forced to live such wretched lives!!! :laugh:

Okay, time for me to go to bed...as I am getting a little crazy.

Susie

Tango

06-30-2003, 03:53 AM

http://burnish.net/articles/blender_may03.php

Tracy got the blender article up that covers a couple of the recently mentioned posts.

bootylicous

06-30-2003, 08:18 AM

I keep reading that Stevie is now very Anti-Drugs and she threatens to call the cops on anyone around her on tour that does them, which is fine I guess, given that she's a recovering addict, and I guess like any kind of addict, you stay an addict, even if you dont' touch the stuff for 20 years, that's still who you are and who you can be.

But I'd just like to remind her that there are plenty of people who do things like party drugs like that responsibly, and infrequently, and never allow themselves to become addicted, I mean speaking for myself, it's not that hard. On the other hand Stevie has a shot of tequila every night before going on stage, whereas I never drunk, ever. To each his own I reckon!

dissention

06-30-2003, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by bootylicous
I keep reading that Stevie is now very Anit-Drugs and she threatens to call the cops on anyone around her on tour that does them, which is fine I guess, given that she's a recovering addict, and I guess like any kind of addict, you stay an addict, even if you dont' touch the stuff for 20 years, that's still who you are and who you can be.

But I'd just like to remind her that there are plenty of people who do things like party drugs like that responsibly, and infrequently, and never allow themselves to become addicted, I mean speaking for myself, it's not that hard. On the other hand Stevie has a shot of tequila every night before going on stage, whereas I never drunk, ever. To each his own I reckon!

There is also a big difference between tequila and drugs: one's illegal, one isn't. Stevie wouldn't necessarily know if someone was an addict and if she called the cops, which she should along with firing them, it would do that person good. No one should have to put up with someone around them doing drugs, even "party drugs."

I think it shows a lot about someones sense of responsibility and self-control if they allow themselves to take drugs, even once, ESPECIALLY nowadays with all the info out there on why you shouldn't take drugs.

I think this thread has taken an ugly turn and maybe we should get back on topic and at least talk about the Mac and their drug use, not the drug use of the members of this forum. :)

I tell ya, if someone around me even smoked a joint, I'd call the police. ;)

Alison

06-30-2003, 09:35 AM

I think it shows a lot about someones sense of responsibility and self-control if they allow themselves to take drugs, even once, ESPECIALLY nowadays with all the info out there on why you shouldn't take drugs

I agree with you here Dessention.
I have seen what drugs have done to my two oldest sons.
They are school drop outs. One is an addict at the age of 17.
I have done everything I know to help him, and no go. His dad even smokes it with him, so my hands are tied. He has stolen my money, jellery and trashed my things and put me and my other children through hell. Nothing good comes from drugs.
But he sees him self as just an pot user and nothing is wrong.
Now Canada has softened thier pot laws, there is nothing I can do.

tommer

06-30-2003, 10:04 AM

blaming drugs on everything that's bad is just making excuses.
abusing drugs is not a cause, it's an effect.
everyone knows drugs are dangerous and risky the same way we all know cars are dangerous and risky. it's simple. if you wanna drive- use your senses and wisdom to do it safely.

Originally posted by dissention
I think it shows a lot about someones sense of responsibility and self-control if they allow themselves to take drugs, even once, ESPECIALLY nowadays with all the info out there on why you shouldn't take drugs.

this is a very naive thing to say, people don't 'allow' themselves anything. people CHOOSE to do stuff, don't just throw propaganda cliche's into the open air.
legalization is just around the corner.

dissention

06-30-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by tommer
blaming drugs on everything that's bad is just making excuses.
abusing drugs is not a cause, it's an effect.
everyone knows drugs are dangerous and risky the same way we all know cars are dangerous and risky. it's simple. if you wanna drive- use your senses and wisdom to do it safely.

this is a very naive thing to say, people don't 'allow' themselves anything. people CHOOSE to do stuff, don't just throw propaganda cliche's into the open air.
legalization is just around the corner.

No, what's naive is you saying that someone can take drugs safely by using their "senses" and "wisdom." If you take drugs, you obviously don't have enough wisdom. The first time someone takes drugs, it could be their last and THAT is a fact. What's sensible about that? And if you think legalization is just around the corner, you're very sadly misinformed. That went over like a lead balloon, buddy.

Alison-- I'm very sorry to hear about your troubles. My only advice is to use toughlove on your family. Also, try to find some support groups or counseling groups like "ToughLove" or "ALANON." I don't know if you have any of those programs in Canada, but look around; there is always someone willing to help. Don't give up though, there is ALWAYS something that can be done. Get to the root of the issue and find out exactly why the people in your family need to do drugs to feel better. I've been in your position, sweetie, and it will get better. It may get worse beforehand, but it will get better. Hang in there! :wavey:

WindingRoad

06-30-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by bootylicous
I keep reading that Stevie is now very Anti-Drugs and she threatens to call the cops on anyone around her on tour that does them, which is fine I guess, given that she's a recovering addict, and I guess like any kind of addict, you stay an addict, even if you dont' touch the stuff for 20 years, that's still who you are and who you can be.

Going back to the TISL tour, didn't somebody post that they saw Sharon and Mindy backstage after the show, and Sharon was doing coke? Stevie had already left. Anybody remember that post?

susieq :wavey:

gypsysara

06-30-2003, 02:23 PM

As long as I can remember, I can remember hearing stories about FM and their drug usage.

bootylicous

06-30-2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by WindingRoad
Going back to the TISL tour, didn't somebody post that they saw Sharon and Mindy backstage after the show, and Sharon was doing coke? Stevie had already left. Anybody remember that post?

OMG really? That's hillarious, but didn't Stevie go straight from the show to the "midnight plane" after each show? I would assume they'd be allowed to go on the plane too, or would they have to ride with the crew on the buses? Though I guess it wouldn't matter if it was the first of two shows in the same city of something.

Besides, Sharon was one of Stevie's friends back in the "coke & brandy" days, if she was still part of that lifestyle at her age and 20 years later, wouldn't she be dead?

Maybe I'll ask her if I see her at a show.:laugh:

strandinthewind

06-30-2003, 03:35 PM

Well - Sharon is very thin . . . . :laugh:

darklinensuit

06-30-2003, 04:55 PM

I always assumed that Sharon was part of Stevie's intervention in the '80s. That combined with the fact she used to live with Stevie make me think that Stevie would try to help her if she were doing any drugs these days, and Stevie would probab;ly know if she really were.

- Jake

dissention

06-30-2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by bootylicous
OMG really? That's hillarious, but didn't Stevie go straight from the show to the "midnight plane" after each show?

Actually, she took a bus for the TISL tour. :laugh:

bootylicous

06-30-2003, 05:37 PM

No way, if you read Stevie's diary for the days around 9/11, she definitely had a private jet, but maybe she only got that when she got sick half way through the tour?

dissention

06-30-2003, 06:09 PM

Maybe she took a jet out of New york, but she had a tour bus. She started using them back in the Street Angel days. I have an interview with her from '01 where she talks about being more economical and using a bus. :)

gldstwmn

06-30-2003, 06:35 PM

Mad4stevie

06-30-2003, 08:25 PM

The point that this thread seems to be missing is the reason WHY they did all these drugs. PURE DYSFUNCTION!!!!

As Stevie has said numerous times, it is like having the greatest love affair of your life break apart and have to see that person every day, all day. Personally, I don't think I could have done what they did, even with all the drugs to numb the pain. At the source of all this addiction is the desire NOT TO FEEL. And some people are certainly more predisposed than others to becoming an addict. People deal with their feelings in different ways, and it is usually determined by the environment in which your were raised as a child.

I think there is a difference between being a social drinker/smoker and being addicted to the stuff (either psychologically or physically). The choice to drink or smoke comes down to how much you do it and to what excess. I might have a glass of red wine with dinner because I like red wine - but I don't need to have the whole bottle. Sure, there have been times when I have been trashed, but those times are few and far between because I just don't enjoy that feeling of being out of control.

Just my opinions . . . .

FiercestCalmSea

06-30-2003, 08:38 PM

I just want to add my two cents here,about drugs and making excuses,etc. I agree that if abused,drugs are bad.However,it is the person's choice to decide how they use the drug.Prime example,my brother and I.He is almost 18,high school drop-out,never keeps a job,just moved out again cause he wants to party all the time...he does everything short of heroin as far as i know.I am almost 23,graduated HS,I am in college,i have at least one job at all times..have i tried drugs? Hell yes...do i like them? Totally.Do i do them all the time? No. My brother and i were raised the same way..we were exposed to the same things..we each made a choice on how we decided to deal with these things.So,really..i mean...i have to say that i think,from the get-go a person has control over their drug use...if they let it become a habit it consumes them,and it is then that they lose control.

tommer

07-01-2003, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Respectfully, BULL****. That statement is a way for you to make it okay for YOU. It's not the same thing and you know it. You can't get addicted to a frigging CAR. Come on Tommer.:distress:
some drugs (such as marijuana, lsd, E...) are not more addicting than coca cola or coffee, and some (heroin, crack, pain killers...) are very addicting. the most important thing is to be informed about what you use or don't use.
Originally posted by dissention
No, what's naive is you saying that someone can take drugs safely by using their "senses" and "wisdom." If you take drugs, you obviously don't have enough wisdom. The first time someone takes drugs, it could be their last and THAT is a fact. What's sensible about that? And if you think legalization is just around the corner, you're very sadly misinformed. That went over like a lead balloon, buddy.

apparently i DO have that wisdom, i've been doing drugs wisely for years and i don't have any dependency. when i wanna take times off (during exams times, when i go abroad ect...) i've absolutly no problem doing so.
about legalization, i'm afraid YOU are the one who's terribly misinformed, almost all western countries are now in the process of flexing their drugs laws. for example there are now only four EU nations - Finland, France, Greece and Sweden - that maintains criminal penalties for marijuana consumption. if you'd bother doing some reading on the subject, you'll easily find out that the most strict drug laws are the american ones, and in parallel so is the problem the country's facing with drugs abuse and addictions.
drugs addicts are not criminals, they are sick people, emotionally and physically, and should get help thru hospitals and not thru jails.

EricBliss12345

07-01-2003, 08:07 AM

Sorry for signing up here and causing a bunch of problems. :laugh: Shoulda never asked....

Just to add a couple things in defense of both of you. Doing drugs is NOT a smart thing to do. There is no smart way to do drugs, you are always taking a serious risk when you do them. You never know if you have an addictive personality or not until you start.

I smoked my first cigarette at age 13 and it was instantly a pack a day habit. I quit once at 17 for a month, and I've been doing so-so with it for almost a month now at 23, I smoked on my birthday and at a concert but have been OK not smoking in everyday situations like being at home or at work. 10 years (although nothing compared to some long time smokers) is a long time to be a drug addict if you ask me.

On the other hand, I have casually taken the synthetic-heroin painkiller oxicontin on a handful of occasions and although it's entertaining enough I don't like it enough to want to be on it every day. I never think about it and never crave it. I still do it occasionally but it's never a big event. Was it worth the risk even trying? Nope. A lot of people in my town are in rehab due to them. Then again, I've had issues with other things. Some of the things I've had issues with in the past, like ecstacy, I can now take on a VERY infrequent basis (once a year tops) and be totally cool with it.

It IS possible to use restraint with drug use. It doesn't make it any smarter to do so, but it is possible to be somewhat responsible with it. It's the same thing as alcohol (which is NO better because it's legal) and that isn't against the law. You take a gamble when you try any substance, sure, but would you never take a drink of alcohol because you were scared of becoming a serious alcoholic? No, that's rediculous. Millions of Americans drink casually, and millions of Americans use drugs casually with no problems too. If you end up having a problem, then you were unlucky. But it is very possible to use drugs to party and JUST to party.

cliffdweller

07-01-2003, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by dissention
There is also a big difference between tequila and drugs: one's illegal, one isn't. Stevie wouldn't necessarily know if someone was an addict and if she called the cops, which she should along with firing them, it would do that person good. No one should have to put up with someone around them doing drugs, even "party drugs."

I think it shows a lot about someones sense of responsibility and self-control if they allow themselves to take drugs, even once, ESPECIALLY nowadays with all the info out there on why you shouldn't take drugs.

I think this thread has taken an ugly turn and maybe we should get back on topic and at least talk about the Mac and their drug use, not the drug use of the members of this forum. :)

I tell ya, if someone around me even smoked a joint, I'd call the police. ;)

What difference does that make? Legal, illegal, it doesn't matter, they're both drugs. And I might add that there are WAY more alcoholics in the world than cocaine addicts. As far as I'm concerned alcohol is more insidious than any "illegal" drugs and contributes to more deaths each year such as drunk driving, domestic violence, and health related illness like heart disease and liver problems. The ironic thing is that alcohol, being a more dangerous drug, is legal wherease pot, a milder drug with milder effects is illegal. Go figure...

Mad4stevie

07-01-2003, 09:20 AM

dissention

07-01-2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by cliffdweller
What difference does that make? Legal, illegal, it doesn't matter, they're both drugs. And I might add that there are WAY more alcoholics in the world than cocaine addicts. As far as I'm concerned alcohol is more insidious than any "illegal" drugs and contributes to more deaths each year such as drunk driving, domestic violence, and health related illness like heart disease and liver problems. The ironic thing is that alcohol, being a more dangerous drug, is legal wherease pot, a milder drug with milder effects is illegal. Go figure...

Both are addicting. However, I believe that someone who chooses a beer or a shot of tequila over drugs is making a smart decision. When you have a drink, you will not die from physically drinking that drink. If you're drinking socially, there is no problem as long as you aren't falling over drunk. But when you put something up your nose or take ecstasy, you are putting your life in physical danger the very moment you take it and being irresponsible. I don't understand how ANYONE can say that they have "wisdom" and good "sense" because they are taking drugs sporadically; you're stupid if you take drugs, PERIOD.

I don't take drugs or alcohol because I'd like to lead a healthy life. I don't drink coffee or anything with caffeine, nor do I take over the counter medicines or smoke cigarettes. But when people publically shout "I TAKE DRUGS!" you better bet your ass I'm going to say how idiotic they are. If y'all don't agree, fine, continue to be stupid and take drugs. (last statement not directed toward cliffdweller! LOL)

tommer- When I was talking about legalization, I was referring to the US; I'd forgotten you're from Israel. But there is still no justification for doing drugs. Ask yourself why you need to stimulate yourself that way and think about it.

FiercestCalmSea

07-01-2003, 07:36 PM

But when people publically shout "I TAKE DRUGS!" you better bet your ass I'm going to say how idiotic they are.

The thing is..you are pretty much right,but the fact is,it just makes for alot if idiotic people in the world,including me i guess:rolleyes: Just file it under all the other idiotic things people do,like jumping out of planes,etc...it is the SAME thing..you are taking a risk,and just hoping you end up ok. Just for the record,i am not jumping up and telling people to do drugs,i am just stating that it is reality that alot of people do.I,for one,would rather get drunk over anything else now that i have tried other stuff once or twice..E rots holes in your brain supposadly,coke is always a toss up unless you know exactly where it is coming from,Weed..yea..if i wanna chill..at least when i drink i know my limit,i NEVER drive,and i can always anticipate that the worst case scenario is one hell of a headache in the morning.

gldstwmn

07-01-2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by cliffdweller
And I might add that there are WAY more alcoholics in the world than cocaine addicts.

Yup. That's because it's cheaper and far more available. It kills way more people too.:(

FiercestCalmSea

07-01-2003, 08:03 PM

Yup. That's because it's cheaper and far more available. It kills way more people too.

Mhmm:distress: I've lost count of the people just from my town(with a whopping population of 20,000) who have been killed as a result of drunk driving in the last couple of years..they all happend to be young people too...

DeeGeMe

07-01-2003, 08:10 PM

I'm still reeling from the death of a friend earlier this year. He was headed home from work when a drunk driver slammed into his car and killed him. He was just 39 years old. I have no tolerance for folks who choose to drink and drive. Drink if you want to, lord knows I like a glass every now and again myself, but please, don't get behind the wheel of a car if you do.

strandinthewind

07-01-2003, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
I'm still reeling from the death of a friend earlier this year. He was headed home from work when a drunk driver slammed into his car and killed him. He was just 39 years old. I have no tolerance for folks who choose to drink and drive. Drink if you want to, lord knows I like a glass every now and again myself, but please, don't get behind the wheel of a car if you do.

I am sorry about your friend :(

Believe me, my car has spent many a night in a strange parking lot waiting to be retrived in the morning! :laugh:

frostie

07-01-2003, 10:02 PM

I'm not going to get too involved in this thread because my views are only my views. I may not agree with how someone else lives but that is their perogative. However, don't ever let your choice to use drugs, be it alcohol or other drugs (cocaine, pot etc. ) EVER endanger the lives of me or my family. If you are going to drink or do drugs, please do it in the privacy of your home with your friends and family and leave the rest of us out of it!! Too many innocent people get hurt by drunks or druggies.

Okay now that I have said that.....two words to justify NOT doing drugs...................................OZZIE OSBOURNE :laugh:

goldustboi

07-03-2003, 10:43 AM

Fiercestcalmsea, i agree with everything uv said....

Im 21 and iv just graduated from Liverpool University....and occasionally I take certain drugs. so does this mean im idiotic and stupid? I know what my limit is and i know when to stop, so as far as im concerned, this makes me NOT stupid.

and just to add in a bit about the mac, i cant say i totally agree with stevie calling the police on people who she sees using coke, i think thats a tad hypocritical, fair enough to have a word or even fire them, but to get them into serious trouble for doing something that she did for 10 years (and lets be honest, im sure she was lovin it for a good while) i think is a bit unfair. amen.
:nod:

Janet

07-03-2003, 12:50 PM

I am 100 percent against drugs.

My father died of a heroine overdose.

He got into an accident and he started with painkillers...that wasn't enough. He smoked pot...wasn't enough...eventually it was shooting up heroine. I won't go into my pathetic childhood story...but in the end he died.

NowI could have ended up a raging druggie or not.

I drink...I do. I have alcoholism all over my family..both sides. My moms dad died of it and my dads mother as well.

But somehow I was given the curse ( or blessing) of a weak stomach that can take about 3 glasses before I throw up. Never changes.

I have smoked pot. It made me feel sick and tired. I have gone into really bad throwing up fits because of it and I act really stupid.

I don't see any point. I won't ever try anything else because I don't see the point. To lose your head isn't worth it. To ease the pain isn't worth it. Its easier to buy something fattening to eat, go on a shopping spree or sleep it off, but drugs...

Every kid I work with does drugs. Nice kids...but they ALL do it. They are younger or my age...and they all...alllllllllll do it. They spend all their money on pot and more. Most of them don't even want to. Is their lives so hard or are we so conditioned never to feel anything but pure goodness?

I just don't know. This is always a weird subject, especially since I tried pot and drink. Im not better than anyone else but I will get on the soapbox just to get people to stop. I wish they didn't even exist!

dissention

07-03-2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Janet
I am 100 percent against drugs.

My father died of a heroine overdose.

He got into an accident and he started with painkillers...that wasn't enough. He smoked pot...wasn't enough...eventually it was shooting up heroine. I won't go into my pathetic childhood story...but in the end he died.

NowI could have ended up a raging druggie or not.

I drink...I do. I have alcoholism all over my family..both sides. My moms dad died of it and my dads mother as well.

But somehow I was given the curse ( or blessing) of a weak stomach that can take about 3 glasses before I throw up. Never changes.

I have smoked pot. It made me feel sick and tired. I have gone into really bad throwing up fits because of it and I act really stupid.

I don't see any point. I won't ever try anything else because I don't see the point. To lose your head isn't worth it. To ease the pain isn't worth it. Its easier to buy something fattening to eat, go on a shopping spree or sleep it off, but drugs...

Every kid I work with does drugs. Nice kids...but they ALL do it. They are younger or my age...and they all...alllllllllll do it. They spend all their money on pot and more. Most of them don't even want to. Is their lives so hard or are we so conditioned never to feel anything but pure goodness?

I just don't know. This is always a weird subject, especially since I tried pot and drink. Im not better than anyone else but I will get on the soapbox just to get people to stop. I wish they didn't even exist!

I'm so sorry to hear about that, Janet. Your post struck a chord with me because my father was also a heroin addict and there is a history of alcoholism in my family on both sides. It got so bad that my father ended robbing ten convenient stores over a one month period just to get his fix. After I discovered it, I was the one who turned him in. Now, he's in prison, but rightfully so; it's where he belongs for the things he did. It's because of things like this that I'm so set in my beliefs about drugs and why no one should take them. I feel that people who do drugs, even sporadically, are stupid for doing it. The risks that are involved and the fact that no one these days is ignorant to the effects of drugs just drive me bonkers when people say they take drugs. Add to it that people lose respect for you when you take drugs. it isn't worth it and I agree, I wish they didn't exist!

tommer

07-03-2003, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by dissention

tommer- When I was talking about legalization, I was referring to the US; I'd forgotten you're from Israel. But there is still no justification for doing drugs. Ask yourself why you need to stimulate yourself that way and think about it.
nice cliche'. but like most cliche's, it's basically true. yet again, i never claimed to be perfect in any way.
let me tell you a little secret, EVERYONE has to fill voids in their lives. some choose workoholism, some eat like pigs, some need to jump from one bed into another, other people have too many babies, and others choose to fill their voids in being misanthropes. few are the ones who manage to live their lives in a complete way which leaves nothing to be improved or avoided. too bad i'm not one of those lucky few basterds.
there must be a psychological reason for why i choose to do weed regularly, and occasionally an E (if the party justifies it).
let's just be happy that the way i choose to fill MY voids doesn't harm or risk anyone, one can't have it all, but i can take comfort in the fact that over-all i'm a pretty reliable guy, i hold responsible jobs nicely, i'm a good friend to have, an A student and i don't have a single police record whatsoever, not even a driving ticket, i stopped consuming alcohol many years ago, and i'm happy to say i'm not very dumb either.
Janet and Dissention, i'm honestly sorry for your losses, but i still don't think your attitudes should be the result of such disasters.
dissention, i know i'm not in the place to judge your actions towards your dad, i do not know the specific case, but generally speaking, i believe that drug addicts are being DRIVEN into a life of crime, i feel that it's unfair that above the fact that these people have a severe medical and psychological problem, they are being pushed to be criminals as well. as i stated earlier, i think those people do not belong in jail, they need medical and mental help instead.

dissention

07-03-2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by tommer
nice cliche'. but like most cliche's, it's basically true. yet again, i never claimed to be perfect in any way.
let me tell you a little secret, EVERYONE has to fill voids in their lives. some choose workoholism, some eat like pigs, some need to jump from one bed into another, other people have too many babies, and others choose to fill their voids in being misanthropes. few are the ones who manage to live their lives in a complete way which leaves nothing to be improved or avoided. too bad i'm not one of those lucky few basterds.
there must be a psychological reason for why i choose to do weed regularly, and occasionally an E (if the party justifies it).
let's just be happy that the way i choose to fill MY voids doesn't harm or risk anyone, one can't have it all, but i can take comfort in the fact that over-all i'm a pretty reliable guy, i hold responsible jobs nicely, i'm a good friend to have, an A student and i don't have a single police record whatsoever, not even a driving ticket, i stopped consuming alcohol many years ago, and i'm happy to say i'm not very dumb either.
Janet and Dissention, i'm honestly sorry for your losses, but i still don't think your attitudes should be the result of such disasters.
dissention, i know i'm not in the place to judge your actions towards your dad, i do not know the specific case, but generally speaking, i believe that drug addicts are being DRIVEN into a life of crime, i feel that it's unfair that above the fact that these people have a severe medical and psychological problem, they are being pushed to be criminals as well. as i stated earlier, i think those people do not belong in jail, they need medical and mental help instead.

But see, you're missing the point. Yes, these people are being driven to do things they wouldn't normally do, but they're the ones putting the key in the ignition. If they hadn't taken that one line, that one joint, that one shot, they wouldn't be in such horrible situations. They were the ones irresponsible enough to take drugs that could ruin their lives, they chose to do it. So, should the blame lay squarely on the shoulders of the drugs? I don't believe so; they are just as much to blame as the drugs, if not more. Drugs can't think, they can't pick and choose their victims. Human beings, however, can think; they can pick and choose to do things that could seriously effect their lives. The people who get addicted to drugs and commit horrible acts are responsible for taking drugs and committing horrible acts. If they hadn't had such a terrible lapse of good sense, they wouldn't in such dire circumstances.

If someone is a criminal, caught possessing narcotics and they are found to be addicted, do you just give them medical treatment and let them go free? Or should you give them medical treatment and then have them face the courts for their crimes? I know what I'd choose.

Give them medical treatment, of course. But don't let them off the hook just because of their "illness." If they've committed crimes, make them pay for them.

Sugar

07-03-2003, 05:22 PM

The point that immediately comes to mind (and always does for me in these discussions) is that most people refer to "drugs" as though it's a single homogeneous group of substances. There's a world of difference between pot and heroin. And then here's cocaine and speed, also pretty damn different. I actually think pot is more benign than alcohol.

I'm also a big believer in personal responsibility. I don't really think drug possession on it's own should be a crime, but if you steal, it's a crime regardless of the reason. And there's tons of ways to screw up your life even without drugs, and I suspect there are pot smokers all over the honor rolls.

Remember, no one falls into a simple set of labels... :nod:

dissention

07-03-2003, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Sugar
I don't really think drug possession on it's own should be a crime

But what about possession with intent to distribute? What if someone was arrested for possessing heroin and if they hadn't been arrested, that person would have sold it to a 15-year-old child? I'm not attacking you, I'm seriously asking your opinion on this. :) :p

PenguinHead

07-03-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by macmar71
[
I know he was quite disgusted with Mick and Stevie's cocaine use around the making of Tango.
[/B]

Stevie went into rehab after her Rock A Little tour in 1986. She was clean by the time Tango was being created. She may have been moody during those sessions, but she certainly wasn't doing cocaine. Lindsey's biggest beef with Stevie was that she didn't make herself very available for the sessions. That fact is evident by her scant (and questionable) representation on the album.

Hey! Nobody has mentioned John McVie's drug bust (in the early eighties) for unregistered firearms and cocaine. Anyone remember that? I recall his wife/girlfriend? was also arrested.

Sugar

07-03-2003, 09:31 PM

WOULD have sold it to a 15 year old child? Maybe, maybe not. Let's face it, a 15 year old can get their hands on cigarettes or beer or porn or a gun or any number of other things if they really want to. That's life in a free society. And all those things ARE a crime, so again, if you commit a crime you should be held responsible for that. So if (in my model) possession alone isn't a crime, then it would take until that sale happens, and then there would be a crime.

I don't have a problem with legalizing pot. It would allow for some regulation (yes, SOME re my comment above about alcohol, guns, etc.) and I figure we could tax the hell out of it (like cigarretes and alcohol) and use the money to deal with harder drugs (education, treatment...) which I don't think should be legal. I would frankly like to see the cops leave the potheads alone and concentrate on the drugs that really DO kill people. I've never heard of anyone dying of a pot overdose or committing armed robbery so they could buy pot.

No offense taken! This has turned into an interesting and refreshingly civil discussion. If only we could be this civil in our opinions of Stevie and Lindsey! :laugh:

FiercestCalmSea

07-03-2003, 11:31 PM

I am very sorry to hear about your Dad. My father is a drug addict..I don't have alot of contact with him..he signed me away when i was little,although i do still see him b/c he lives with my grandmother.I am just waiting for the day when someone tells me he is dead....Everyone has tried to help him..he doesn't want to be helped..so there is really nothing anyone can do.It hasn't really made me anti-drugs though..because i am very conscious of what i am doing and what i don't want to do...so for all the things i may dabble in,i never ever let it go too far cause i know i never want to end up like my father.

Alison

07-04-2003, 10:29 AM

I have already posted earlier what drugs have done to my son. My ex husband is now an alcoholic. Now I'm going to make some people squirm here a minuite.
I don't think any one in the Mac just one day woke up and started doing coke and acid. It all started from some where, alittle drink here and a little toke here.
The fact is we are all trying to fill that void in our lives with something, drugs, sex, shopping or what ever.
And that void is getting bigger as the world gets tougher.
Maybe be that void that every one has needs to be filled with God, your creator. He is the only one that can fill that void.
He's the one that can take the pain away. Run to Him and not to the drugs. So are you squirming yet?

FiercestCalmSea

07-04-2003, 11:44 AM

So are you squirming yet?

Nope.I had 10 years of Catholic School to do that. Please don't get me wrong,i am not mocking what you are saying at all,because i do agree that it is much more benefical to seek God than it is to knock back a bottle of Smirnoff.I am sure people seek drugs to fill a void,and if that is the case,it is sad.When i drink,etc,it is to have a good time..I am 22 years old..i like to party..i am not drinking away any major problems or anything...i have the sense to realize that if i was doing that,i'd have a problem on my hands.I am sorry about your sons,Alison...my brother is the same way..it is very,very sad:distress:

tommer

07-04-2003, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Alison
So are you squirming yet?
kinda. i guess that if i'd wanna get addicted to irrational thinking i'd rather choose heroin, at least this way there's gonna be some fun times along the way.

Alison

07-04-2003, 02:19 PM

kinda. i guess that if i'd wanna get addicted to irrational thinking i'd rather choose heroin, at least this way there's gonna be some fun times along the way.

So tommer are you saying anyone that has a belief in God and Jesus is irrational, and is thinking that way?
Are you saying you rather be on drugs, and that is not Irrational?
That is a very judgemental of you and offensive to other belivers on this board. But you are intitled to your opinon just as I am.
Belive me, God is not boring, and serving Him is fun. And I don't wake up to any regrets or hangovers.
God bless you TOMMER.

FiercestCalmSea

07-04-2003, 03:20 PM

So tommer are you saying anyone that has a belief in God and Jesus is irrational, and is thinking that way?

Somehow i didn't read it that way..I suppose it is just that when people mention the whole God subject,it gets a little touchy...Yes,if you have a strong belief in something,that should be respected,totally.It is just when you start saying that others should have that same belief,it gets messy. I beleive in God,i pray...but i don't even go to church that much anymore..like i said,Catholic school did me in...having religion shoved down your throat is not alot of fun.The Catholic church has many,many flaws as far as i am concerned...but that is another rant for another time..my point is..Tommer was expressing his opinion in reaction to someone else's..he doesn't need to be thrown in the river and baptized....If you believe in God,if you love God and want to serve him...awesome for you...but as far as what i have been taught..God does not want you to judge others either..so if someone doesn't agree with you..just let it go..

tommer

07-04-2003, 06:51 PM

actually sarah, alison got me right more than you have, i don't JUDGE anyone's beliefs, but FOR ME religion IS an irrational way of thinking.
last time i practiced religion (which was unwillingly and more than 30 years ago) i got cut in the dick!!! :eek:

FiercestCalmSea

07-04-2003, 09:59 PM

last time i practiced religion (which was unwillingly and more than 30 years ago) i got cut in the dick!!!

:laugh:

strandinthewind

07-04-2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by tommer
. . . last time i practiced religion (which was unwillingly and more than 30 years ago) i got cut in the dick!!! :eek:

Watch out for that lightning bolt :laugh:

I really do respect all religious beliefs. I just can't stand it when someone tells me mine are wrong. No one and I mean no one I know follows all of the teachings of the Bible. For example, who has not eaten shellfish or pork for that matter? Who does not mix fibers in their clothing? When was the last time you owned a slave from a permissable as opposed to an unpermissable place? When was the last time adulters and adulteresses were both stoned to death? Who has always turned the other cheek? Who has always loved others as they love themselves? Who has never coveted?

Does our failure in these areas mean we are all bad people? In my opinion it does not. I think it just means we have to live within the parameters we set for ourselves and always strive for the high road no matter how hard that is.

Note: I am in no way mocking these things or anyone's beliefs. I am just using them as examples to prove my point that the Bible is up to interpretation and that when people force their interpretations on me - I just cry foul and think that is why people get upset or nervous whenever someone with good intentions tries to show the way to God. Interestingly, most of the people I have known that have gone through substance abuse treatment have found religion. So, it must work for some if not a bunch of people.

gldstwmn

07-05-2003, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Alison
I have already posted earlier what drugs have done to my son. My ex husband is now an alcoholic. Now I'm going to make some people squirm here a minuite.
I don't think any one in the Mac just one day woke up and started doing coke and acid. It all started from some where, alittle drink here and a little toke here.
The fact is we are all trying to fill that void in our lives with something, drugs, sex, shopping or what ever.
And that void is getting bigger as the world gets tougher.
Maybe be that void that every one has needs to be filled with God, your creator. He is the only one that can fill that void.
He's the one that can take the pain away. Run to Him and not to the drugs. So are you squirming yet?

I agree with you. we all need to learn how to deal, how to fill those holes. Spirituality is one way and there are many positive others in addition to that.

And yes Sugar, no one falls into a simple set of labels but do you remember the rest of that quote? He says "I think it's even more important to learn from your mistakes and to fight-to fight for the positive choice."