What's the nicest thing FM ever did for the fans?

[darklinensuit]

I keep reading how this is a band that has never given a damn about the fans, even before the fan club nonsense.
Can anybody speak in the band's defense? I'm having trouble thinking of things, but I didn't become a fan until after the Mirage days. Maybe somebody with a longer history can think of something?

Many of the things I'm coming up with are pretty minor.

Stevie wrote letters to the troops in 1991 and 2003.
Stevie and Lindsey interact with the fans when they're onstage.
Silver Springs was finally re-released on the boxed set (though this decision might have come more from Mick's moneyhunger than caring for the fans).
Songs like The Farmer's Daughter & Beautiful Child have been included in recent sets.
The songwriting has not given in to pressures of commercialism.
Landslide is often dedicated to individual fans.

Please add to this if you can. I'm hoping the rest of you can do better! (I'm beginning to feel cynical towards the band's decisions due to recent events, and it appears I'm not the only one.)

Notice, I'm asking about what has been done FOR THE FANS, so I'm not including acts of altruism like the heart benefits & charities that do not necessarily have a direct link to the fan base. (I included the letters to the military because supposedly Stevie was writing in response to fans in the military who had written to her.)

- Jake

[wetcamelfood]

I can't think of anything off hand that a band member had physically given to anyone. I'll keep thinking about it though. :)

I don't really think Stevie giving a letter to the troops counts as the "troops" are not necessarily "fans" but whatever, my thinking cap is still on though. Hmm... :)

John

[gypsysara]

One of the Ledgies received Stevie's tea cup she was drinking out of for the evening after one of the recent SYW shows. Stevie wanted her to have it. Pretty cool IMO.

Stevie was nice enough to meet me when she was going back to her hotel room. Took time out and talked to me for a moment. I know she knows what it means to fans like me, and that brings her happiness IMO.

[berry]

She dedicated landslide to me at one of her Enchanted shows, which was not entirely her doing, but it was the best gift anyone could have ever given me.

[glitter_fades]

Nothing of substance I've seen in my 30 years of being a fan. I know fans who've run into Mick & John in the lean years after Lindsey and Stevie left the band and before the Dance. They were cool and happy to be recognized. Stevie's done charitable things in Phoenix mostly to please her Dad, I suspect. She's never been really great about fans approaching her in public, but in her defense, she gets a lot of stalker types coming at her, so I can't say I blame her. Her New Years Eve Millennium show was a small type venue in Vegas and I think fans were given a good crack at tickets to that, but I can't really say she's considered fan oriented even here in her hometown. The coolest thing I heard her do for fans was to let Pip and Louise meet her in her limo for a minute at the Vegas TISL show. Those ladies came all the way from the UK to see her after the original show date was postponed. It cost them a lot of extra money and headache to reschedule the trip to see her. She really did a nice thing even if it was just for a minute. As for Lindsey, he seems to be reaching out to fans a little in these shows, but is it too little too late?

[Jason T.]

Just as a side note: Is anyone actually sure that Stevie and Lindsey and even John know about all this crap going on. You got to remember these people are fifty something and not very computer literate. That and I doubt the person who was put in charge of your fan club is going to come running to you yelling "I screwed up big time" because they know what will be the next words coming out of their mouths. Everyone right now has a reason to be angry, but remember ignorance is not a crime...

[strandinthewind]

I think their willingness to perform at charity benefit concerts (esp. Stevie) are great. Also, I know Stevie has given the rights to some of her songs to charity. For example, City of Hope and the Arizona Heart Institute have different rights in Beautiful Child. I also have heard that Stevie is very charitable in many other ways (paying people medical bills, bringing the firemen lunch in D.C., etc. ) but have no concrete proof of most of this. Stevie also donated a few thousand $$$ during the Florida part of the Enchanted tour to the victims of the Florida wildfires.

Also, LB and the band sans La Nicks (who was no there) taking the time to chat with me after the Atlanta concert was very nice of them. I realize they did not do this for everyone, but they did it for me and I thought solely from my perspective that was cool. Also, Stevie once was extremely personal in person with me during the Enchanted Tour; I will never forget the words of encouragement she told me during a horrible period in my life and stand in awe of her today for helping me out like that.

I also think the $45 to $50 tickets available in most venues on this tour and similarly priced tickets on past tours were a nice gesture considering they probably could have charged more and gotten it. I know ticket prices have been an issue in the past for Stevie in that I have read interviews where she has specifically stated she likes to ensure relatively cheap seats are available so all people at least have a better chance of being able to go. I realize this may not be a popular opinion, but it is mine nonetheless :wavey: Also, I know the arguments against it (nosebleed seats, if they were that concerned then all tickets would be cheaper, they should take a paycut, etc. ) , but if you already told them to me in that other thread :laugh: and feel you must tell them to me again - be my guest :cool: :laugh:

[flyfirefly]

This is crazy.

They are only musicians, the are not saints or Gods and they give you music--they don't owe anyone anything. What does it matter what they've given you? Isn't the music enough?

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
This is crazy.

They are only musicians, the are not saints or Gods and they give you music--they don't owe anyone anything. What does it matter what they've given you? Isn't the music enough?

I agree. They don't walk on water and I don't act as if they do either. They don't owe us anything and the reverse is true as well. I've been a fan for years but there's only so much I'd do or say on their behalf even before the fan club ripped off a lot of fans using their name. I never bought every souvineer or went to every show. I never would have paid any price to see them. I don't knock others who would and have done so. That's an individual choice. As far as I'm concerned, they are only musicians. You are quite right about that.

[berry]

She dedicated landslide to me at one of her Enchanted shows, which was not entirely her doing, but it was the best gift anyone could have ever given me.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
This is crazy.

They are only musicians, the are not saints or Gods and they give you music--they don't owe anyone anything. What does it matter what they've given you? Isn't the music enough?

They don't OWE me anything, but is it really too much to ask they show a little gratitude? Wouldn't that be the moral thing to do - not the saintly thing, just the regular old NICE thing. I'll continue to love them as musicians because of their awesome talent, but I'd love them more as PEOPLE if I could see something else there. So instead of faulting people for asking, how about we wait and see if anyone has a good answer? What makes you so sure that's not gonna happen? Perhaps I have more faith in these people than you do - I'm still hoping.

[glitter_fades]

No Nancy, it isn't too much to ask. I used to expect a little gratitude, too. Recent events don't leave me hopeful, but we can wait and see. I'm still holding on just a tiny bit. :)

[Johnny Stew]

Well, the biggest thing they've ever done for me, is toiling thru blood, sweat, and tears to give me decades of incredible music, which has been an integral part of my life for as long as I can remember.

Boxed-sets... DVDs... Meet & Greets.... everything else is merely icing after that. :)

Corny, but it's the truth. :D

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Well, the biggest thing they've ever done for me, is toiling thru blood, sweat, and tears to give me decades of incredible music, which has been an integral part of my life for as long as I can remember.

Boxed-sets... DVDs... Meet & Greets.... everything else is merely icing after that. :)

Corny, but it's the truth. :D

I totally agree with you - everything else is just gravy.

[wetcamelfood]

As a fairly "long time fan", I'm not even after gratitude, I just want value for money which isn't always received when it comes to FM (after the music itself) considering we hear about other artists that have fan clubs that give their fans more stuff for less money than the FM club did (from what I hear, as I didn't join it). Same with cheaper/more accessible concert seats.

Other bands/artists doing these things just shows that it CAN be done if they REALLY WANTED it to be done (i.e. doing "something nice for thier fans").

The music itself doesn't count as "enough" since they are musicians (as said before), you'd expect good music from them anyways (and they know that's what people expect from them so it seems there's no misunderstandings there).

I think all that was meant was BEYOND the years of CD purchasing, what can/should the fans get for their membership fee (they must know the more they provide, the better it looks on them).

Also, they must know that, whether they like it or not, computers are here to stay, so if they REALLY CARED then they could learn how to surf etc. or get someone to do it for them so such "cover ups" can be found out about through their own investigations (as they must know that the "guilty parties" won't admit anything to them and they would have to find out on their own what's up with all of that anyways and that's assming they don't know anything but that's a separate topic altogether and I won't go in to that here, I don't think this thread was even meant as another JT bashing thread, some were simply wondering what the nicest thing FM has ever done for it's fans has been and it doesn't seem like a helluva lot (to me) so far really (though I can't say I'm surprised by that really) but it'll be interesting to see what others have to add to this if anything. :)

JMHO though. :)

John

[Jason T.]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Well, the biggest thing they've ever done for me, is toiling thru blood, sweat, and tears to give me decades of incredible music, which has been an integral part of my life for as long as I can remember.

Boxed-sets... DVDs... Meet & Greets.... everything else is merely icing after that. :)

Corny, but it's the truth. :D


HELL YEAH! Right on...and there better be at least two more decades of that.:nod:

[strandinthewind]

My impression was Jake started this as a positive thread. So, I was hoping for positive comments on this thread and that the venting could be achieved on one of the ten or so other threads directly related to venting/bashing.

Yet, the bashing continues . . . :rolleyes:

[wetcamelfood]

I honestly didn't mean it as "bashing", I never doubted the music itself is great and that's why I'm here otherwise I wouldn't be. Just stating how I see their lack of interest in their fan base is all. I'm glad for those many here that seem to feel that they do care about their fans.

Sorry if it came out that "negative" way. :)

John

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
My impression was Jake started this as a positive thread. So, I was hoping for positive comments on this thread and that the venting could be achieved on one of the ten or so other threads directly related to venting/bashing.

Yet, the bashing continues . . . :rolleyes:

Thanks for writing this.
When I typed the post, I considered writing that this is an opportunity to point out the good things that the band HAS done. I decided that this message is implied, but apparently I was wrong.

I never said that FM members are saints or anything more than musicians.
I never wrote in this thread that they owe anybody anything.
I wrote that there has been much criticism of the band for not giving more to the fans. Whether they owe or not, I merely ask what they have given.
Many posters have pointed out that Tom Petty, for example, has shown greater appreciation to his fans. Yet nobody is saying he's a saint. And if he is only a musician who owes nothing more to his fans, let's commend him for that. If FM members have done good, let's point it out, and let's commend them, too.
I see nothing "crazy" about asking posters what good things they (or fans they know of) have received.

And Johnny Stew, I happen to agree that the meaningful music has been the greatest gift. Call me corny, too.

- Jake

[AliP]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Well, the biggest thing they've ever done for me, is toiling thru blood, sweat, and tears to give me decades of incredible music, which has been an integral part of my life for as long as I can remember.


Corny, but it's the truth. :D

Though I love the music, I'm sorry but, I can't help but think that they create the music more to satisfy themselves, not the fans (other than Stevie) since she's the only one I've ever heard mention that she writes for the fans. But have you ever heard Lindsey, Christine, Mick or John say they create the music for the fans, not to satisfy their own personal egos and tastes.

Not to be negative, because I think that's the way alot of artists work. You have to please yourself before you can please anyone else.

Again, they don't owe me anything. But as someone already mentioned, they just need to show that they care, which I think they have to some extent at the concerts. Lindsey and Stevie interacting with the fans and signing autographs etc. Even Mick gave back stage passes away to a fan. It's not alot but at least its something.

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
I honestly didn't mean it as "bashing", I never doubted the music itself is great and that's why I'm here otherwise I wouldn't be. Just stating how I see their lack of interest in their fan base is all. I'm glad for those many here that seem to feel that they do care about their fans.

Sorry if it came out that "negative" way. :)

John

I didn't think your post was negative. You just wrote that you couldn't think of anything for now.

- Jake

[dissention]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Thanks for writing this.
When I typed the post, I considered writing that this is an opportunity to point out the good things that the band HAS done. I decided that this message is implied, but apparently I was wrong.

I never said that FM members are saints or anything more than musicians.
I never wrote in this thread that they owe anybody anything.
I wrote that there has been much criticism of the band for not giving more to the fans. Whether they owe or not, I merely ask what they have given.
Many posters have pointed out that Tom Petty, for example, has shown greater appreciation to his fans. Yet nobody is saying he's a saint. And if he is only a musician who owes nothing more to his fans, let's commend him for that. If FM members have done good, let's point it out, and let's commend them, too.
I see nothing "crazy" about asking posters what good things they (or fans they know of) have received.

And Johnny Stew, I happen to agree that the meaningful music has been the greatest gift. Call me corny, too.

- Jake

Well, let me say it: Tom Petty is a saint! LOL :laugh: Honestly, I love the guy to death. Not only does he make fabulous music, but he knows who he is, who he wants to be and he won't compromise any of that for money or feeding the "machine." He is a very admirable man! :)

As for the Mac, I can't think of anything at the present time. Maybe I'll think of something later. :)

It isn't that people expect things or feel owed anything, it's that they want to at least be acknowledged for being so dedicated and putting them where they are right now. No one can dispute that without us, they wouldn't be where they are today. They wouldn't be touring, commanding high ticket prices. And because of that, the people that put them in the position they are in now want to be shown gratitude. Maybe do a free show here and there. Don't charge for the fan club. Don't make every move you make into a money-making scheme; just do something once in awhile to show that you're grateful and you know we're out there. Unfortunately, even though the Mac knows that it's the fans who give them money, they also consider us their ball and chain. It's a Catch 22. :)

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by AliP
Though I love the music, I'm sorry but, I can't help but think that they create the music more to satisfy themselves, not the fans (other than Stevie) since she's the only one I've ever heard mention that she writes for the fans.I definitely see your point... I guess I've just always felt that any one of them could have easily hung it up years ago, if they didn't care about reaching people with their music.

Stevie is probably the best example of that, as she nearly killed herself trying to make everyone happy.
One could argue that no one is responsible for her drug addictions but her, and that would definitely be true... but the whole impetus behind doing cocaine in the first place, was to have the energy to continue making music, and performing... to please us.

As musicians, writing, recording, and performing is what they do... so I guess that pretty much becomes a "given thing" in many people's eyes, but for me... and again, as corny as this may be... the music has always been a blessing. So I never expect more than that.
I will admit that I have sometimes wished there would be more frequent releases, or that they'd get off their duffs and release a video compilation... but as long as I have the music, I'm a happy boy. :D

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by dissention
Well, let me say it: Tom Petty is a saint!

Ah yes, St. Thomas of the Heartbreakerian Order. I'd forgotten. :D

- Jake

[Bella Figura]

Stevie posting excerpts from her journal after 9/11 is right up there with connecting and being involved with your fans. And Stevie is using the technology of the Internet to communicate with fans even if it is just one way with her journal and brief Q&A's and with us fans sending her birthday and Christmas greetings. And Mick and JT probably should have taken their que from the Nicksfix...it's slightly interactive without being a rip-off.

But I totally understand Stevie being cautious with her fans, the last thing I want to read about is some crazy fan murdering her and the Net does attract it's fair share of nuts as do celebrities, so both could be a lethal combination...

I always found that the Edge of 17 handshakes during her concert are also very fan interactive, how many other artists have a pre-set section of their concerts that dedicated fans know, that they specifically reserve to shake hands with fans...I'm convinced that's how Stevie got sick during TISL.

I personally hope she continues to be reticent about interacting directly with fans, there is something to be said about distance adding to mystery...look at Greta Garbo.

I've said this before but as fans we're pretty lucky, we have THREE decades of new music from our favorite band. The same can't be said for Beatle fans, fans of the Cars, Queen, Aaliyah, TLC and others...

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I definitely see your point... I guess I've just always felt that any one of them could have easily hung it up years ago, if they didn't care about reaching people with their music.

As musicians, writing, recording, and performing is what they do... so I guess that pretty much becomes a "given thing" in many people's eyes... but for me, and again, as corny as this may be, the music has always been a blessing. So I never expect more than that.
I will admit that I have sometimes wished there would be more frequent releases, or that they'd get off their duffs and release a video compilation... but as long as I have the music, I'm a happy boy. :D

I see your point, Johnny, but (of course! :laugh:), I have to put my spin on it.

Anyone of them could've hung it up years ago, but they never would've.

Mick and John never made as much as Stevie, Lindsey, and Chris. The money that they make on the road is what keeps them financially stable, even Stevie said so. I also think that given the time line-up, Mick has always been desperate to keep things going.

Stevie will never give it up for reasons she's explained since the eighties. She loves touching people with her music.

Lindsey doesn't put music out to touch people and that's a fact. His music is his special thing as proven by his hermit-like studio exiles. He did the Dance for money and SYW for money, not touching people. Yeah, the music is unparalleled, but he does it for himself and his enjoyment. However, I'm sure he feels flattered that people love his music.

My point is, they wouldn't have hung it up because it is their career. They've been doing it forever and it's where the money is. :)

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
I always found that the Edge of 17 handshakes during her concert are also very fan interactive, how many other artists have a pre-set section of their concerts that dedicated fans know, that they specifically reserve to shake hands with fans...I'm convinced that's how Stevie got sick during TISL.Not to change the subject, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's why she's being a little less physically interactive with the fans on the current tour.

She's probably being very protective of her health this time around, after the difficulties she had on the 'TISL' tour, and also given that this tour is expected to go on for quite some time.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Well as Glitter mentioned Stevie took the time to talk to me and Louise in Vegas. That was very cool and she actually thanked us for being there. The best thing that FM have done for their fans IMO is bring us the music that we love

Pip

[AliP]

Originally posted by dissention

My point is, they wouldn't have hung it up because it is their career. They've been doing it forever and it's where the money is. :)

Yes! Exactly. :)

But, I love 'em anyway.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
I didn't think your post was negative. You just wrote that you couldn't think of anything for now.

- Jake

Jake, yeah I knew you understood but Strandinthewind is the one I though I may have upset (though it was not my intention) after reading this:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
My impression was Jake started this as a positive thread. So, I was hoping for positive comments on this thread and that the venting could be achieved on one of the ten or so other threads directly related to venting/bashing.

Yet, the bashing continues . . . :rolleyes:

Well whoever, I agree with many things that have been said here so I'm glad many of us seem to be on the same wavelength. :)

John

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Jake, yeah I knew you understood but Strandinthewind is the one I though I may have upset (though it was not my intention) after reading this:

. . .

John

I was speaking in general to everyone.

No harm - No foul!!!!!!! :wavey: :cool:

[Mad4stevie]

The way I look at it, the Mac has done more than enough for me. But that may be because I don't feel entitled to anything.

Maybe I am over generalizing, but most Mac/Stevie fans are fans because of the personal connection that is made through the music. Speaking from my own experience, Stevie had written songs that have spoken to me like no other songwriter/musican. I consider her/their music to be an incredible gift that teaches me things and comforts me in difficult times. I can't put a price on that kind of thing, because to me, it's irreplaceable.

As for doing things for financial gain . . . . come on, people! Making music is their "job"! That is how they make a living. Other than Mick and his past financial mismanagement, I can't fathom that they would need to do this because they have limited financial resources. Especially Stevie and Lindsey - they have all those songwriting royalties. If they are out of money, JLo doesn't have a chance!!!

Sure, who won't love to talk to Stevie or Lindsey, or whomever, in person?! But the reality of today is that there are alot of freaks out there. I can certainly understand why Stevie doesn't accept gifts on stage anymore. We can only imagine what stalker types have pursed them in the past. It is a safety issue for them.

[flyfirefly]

Some of this is coming from the backlash of the Fan Club, and that was unfortunately expected. Some people are just so sure that the band knows everything about it and are deliberately attempting to financially cripple their fans. Hate the Fan Club, not the band.

The way some of the posts have been floating its as if people feel they deserve more for hanging in there for 30+ years. Everyone deserves those front row seats, everyone deserves those meet & greets, everyone deserves to be let in free and hear the insider secrets. I feel like some people get really resentful and defensive--they want Stevie to personally acknowledge their fandom, etc.

All we've heard all tour long are amazing stories of fabulous concert experiences. You look beside you at a concert and you'll see thousands of people totally having the time of their lives, singing every word and maybe not all of you go to concerts all the time but I can promise you that not all concerts are like this. Fleetwood Mac brings people together to rock, Stevie does that benefit for AHI every year (among others). I don't think Lindsey's out specifically for the money but he's not an Idiot--he knows he's in the business of rock&roll and if J-Lo can get $30+ million for adding whiny vocals to a mechanized track then it seems only fair he get a good deal for putting blood, sweat, and tears into a fabulous record. Mick & John have never stopped--so what do you do with that?

I mean, here is a band who is coming straight to you. The biggest cities in America (as of current), complete with all new merchandise and songs and websites, hairdos, costumes, shoes, smiles and waves. The entire band is over 50--how many bands are still going out on the road at that age? How many bands have fizzled after one hit record or two?

So, I apologize if that offends anyone but lately it seems that people are always asking for more.

[dissention]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Some of this is coming from the backlash of the Fan Club, and that was unfortunately expected. Some people are just so sure that the band knows everything about it and are deliberately attempting to financially cripple their fans. Hate the Fan Club, not the band.

The way some of the posts have been floating its as if people feel they deserve more for hanging in there for 30+ years. Everyone deserves those front row seats, everyone deserves those meet & greets, everyone deserves to be let in free and hear the insider secrets. I feel like some people get really resentful and defensive--they want Stevie to personally acknowledge their fandom, etc.

All we've heard all tour long are amazing stories of fabulous concert experiences. You look beside you at a concert and you'll see thousands of people totally having the time of their lives, singing every word and maybe not all of you go to concerts all the time but I can promise you that not all concerts are like this. Fleetwood Mac brings people together to rock, Stevie does that benefit for AHI every year (among others). I don't think Lindsey's out specifically for the money but he's not an Idiot--he knows he's in the business of rock&roll and if J-Lo can get $30+ million for adding whiny vocals to a mechanized track then it seems only fair he get a good deal for putting blood, sweat, and tears into a fabulous record. Mick & John have never stopped--so what do you do with that?

I mean, here is a band who is coming straight to you. The biggest cities in America (as of current), complete with all new merchandise and songs and websites, hairdos, costumes, shoes, smiles and waves. The entire band is over 50--how many bands are still going out on the road at that age? How many bands have fizzled after one hit record or two?

So, I apologize if that offends anyone but lately it seems that people are always asking for more.

I have yet to see a post from any member of The Ledge where the poster sounds like they're owed something. It's because no one feels that way. They just want acknowledgment. That's all. :)

While the shows have been amazing throughout the tour, it doesn't change the fact that people are bitter over things like the fan club and JT. I think it's because people are angry over these things and FMs obvious lack of care in these matters that people might come off as being owed something. But if you think about, some are owed something. They paid the expensive fan club fee and haven't really gotten anything. Then, they get insulted PERSONALLY by JT through emails and on his board. People who are insulted and had their computers messed with are owed apologies. I sure would LOVE one, but I know I'll never get one. Anyways, it's the mess of everything that has people upset and rightly so. Granted, the music that FM puts out is by far the BEST but when the band and their associates do shady things, people are going to feel however they feel. :)

I hope I make sense! LOL

[flyfirefly]

FMs obvious lack of care in these matters


Lack of care? They're on a tour! Bringing music to you!

And you've just turned the topic around to yet another Fan Club bashing forum. The point is lost.



I have yet to see a post from any member of The Ledge where the poster sounds like they're owed something. It's because no one feels that way. They just want acknowledgment. That's all.

I feel like that contradicts itself. We don't want anything, but we want this. ??? By the way, you don't have to quote my entire post, I think everyone can read it for themselves....:)

[stephmoore]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Lack of care? They're on a tour! Bringing music to you!

Incidentally, yes. But don't forget -- the point of a tour is to make money for the band.

And you've just turned the topic around to yet another Fan Club bashing forum. The point is lost.

Yep. I agree. The point is lost.

But I don't think that anyone can bash the Fan Club *enough*. And I don't think the bashing should STOP until the money is given back to the customers from whom it was stolen. Plain and simple. But I also am cynical enough to realize that will never happen. Enron's shareholders are still waiting for their 401K funds to be restored; compared to that, the Fleetwood Mac fan club is small potatoes. Still, it's the principle of the thing: Whatever happened to THOU SHALT NOT STEAL?


I feel like that contradicts itself. We don't want anything, but we want this. ??? By the way, you don't have to quote my entire post, I think everyone can read it for themselves....:)

I don't think it's contradictory to want to be treated according to the Golden Rule. It's simple humanity. Treat others as you would yourself like to be treated.

Nobody likes to be ripped off. The band, whether they know about it or not, is ripping people off via the Fan Club. Ignorance of the law or of what is being done in your name is not a viable defense. They *are* liable for what's going on, in a strictly legal sense. Not that I want anyone to sue them -- indeed, I'm terrified that someone WILL. I just want someone who knows the band members (other than Mick) to slap some sense into them and inform them of what's going on -- so they can protect themselves from litigation.

And thus ends my little sermon. Time to put the soapbox back on the shelf.

[dissention]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Lack of care? They're on a tour! Bringing music to you!

And you've just turned the topic around to yet another Fan Club bashing forum. The point is lost.




I feel like that contradicts itself. We don't want anything, but we want this. ??? By the way, you don't have to quote my entire post, I think everyone can read it for themselves....:)

Listen, I wasn't rude to you in my reply to your post, don't be rude to me. If you don't agree with me, fine. But don't get rude and antagonistic. I remember quite a few of the posts you made on Mick's board back when all this stuff was happening; I'm glad to see your lack class made it here. :)

[dissention]

Originally posted by stephmoore
Incidentally, yes. But don't forget -- the point of a tour is to make money for the band.



Yep. I agree. The point is lost.

But I don't think that anyone can bash the Fan Club *enough*. And I don't think the bashing should STOP until the money is given back to the customers from whom it was stolen. Plain and simple. But I also am cynical enough to realize that will never happen. Enron's shareholders are still waiting for their 401K funds to be restored; compared to that, the Fleetwood Mac fan club is small potatoes. Still, it's the principle of the thing: Whatever happened to THOU SHALT NOT STEAL?

I don't think it's contradictory to want to be treated according to the Golden Rule. It's simple humanity. Treat others as you would yourself like to be treated.

Nobody likes to be ripped off. The band, whether they know about it or not, is ripping people off via the Fan Club. Ignorance of the law or of what is being done in your name is not a viable defense. They *are* liable for what's going on, in a strictly legal sense. Not that I want anyone to sue them -- indeed, I'm terrified that someone WILL. I just want someone who knows the band members (other than Mick) to slap some sense into them and inform them of what's going on -- so they can protect themselves from litigation.

And thus ends my little sermon. Time to put the soapbox back on the shelf.

Thank you, stephmoore, for actually reading my post and understanding it. :) :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

I have to cry foul about the fan club bashing in this thread.

There are many, many other threads specifically dedicated to that topic in this forum and it just may be possible that not everyone wants to hear about it in just about every single thread on this site. I know I do not in this thread. If I wanted to read about it, I would go to the four other threads in which this currently is being discussed.

Again, this thread was supposed to be positive - but I guess that is apparently impossible.

Note: I am not saying anyone cannot post your comments about the fan club wherever they want. I am just politely asking that it be done somewhere other than this thread because, once again, this was supposed to be a postive thread looking for good things. In fact, Jake specifically said he was looking for something to pick him up, not bring him down, after all that that gone on. If that is not possible, e.g. if people feel the need to bash the fan club despite the pleas of others like myself not to do so in just about every thread, then so be it. But, I think it is a shame that people have so little respect and want to bring everyone down and into their own issue(s) :mad:

Note: Its late, I have been working since 6:00 a.m., and, therefore, am grumpy!! :laugh:

I guess Jake should have put a spoiler notice in the subject line that said "No Fan Club Bashers Welcome!" (this was meant as humor! :laugh: )

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I have to cry foul about the fan club bashing in this thread.


Sorry, Strandy, but flyfirefly completely missed my point. Let me clarify for ya. :)

firefly said they always see people post about how they're "owed." While I agree people are owed nothing, I merely gave an instance where people are owed and for that reason, they may sound like they're owed. It was not meant to turn it into a fan club bashing thread.

I know how ya feel about working since early in the morning; me too, doll! :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Ah Ha - I was like WTF :laugh: Its time for a martini and an Ambien in no specific order!!! :laugh:

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Ah Ha - I was like WTF :laugh: Its time for a martini and an Ambien in no specific order!!! :laugh:

LMAO! You read my mind!! :eek: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Wouldn't it be funny to post only after a martini and an Ambien!!!

One martini, two martini, three martini - - - floor!

I am on my way!!!!!!!! Wheeeeeeeee!!! :laugh:

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Wouldn't it be funny to post only after a martini and an Ambien!!!

One martini, two martini, three martini - - - floor!

I am on my way!!!!!!!! Wheeeeeeeee!!! :laugh:

Who says I haven't been???


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[glitter_fades]

Isn't it a little unfair, and somewhat rude, to insist nobody talk about the fan club in a thread started by someone who mentioned the fan club in their original post? I didn't mention it specifically in my posts becasue I know it's a sore subject, and everyone already knows I don't support the band the way I used to because of the fan club. I don't feel the band owes me anything...not anything more than any decent human being owes another. Honesty and integrity would be nice for them to display in dealing with their fans but I don't expect it anymore. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's how I feel.

It doesn't matter how long anyone's been a fan, either. Nobody said the band owes more to long time fans, but they sure as hell don't owe any less. I also feel everyone has a right to state their opinion of the band without being told where to post it. If people don't want to discuss the fan club, why mention it in your own posts? No offense, but I just don't get that? I don't mean to tell others what to say or where to say it. I don't know why some people get irritated with the negativity the band's brought on themselves. Maybe starting a thread like this was asking for trouble? I really don't think anyone is intentionally trying to bring others down with their comments. Some people feel strongly about certain things. It's a shame some people can't deal with it, but that's just the way it is.

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by dissention
Thank you, stephmoore, for actually reading my post and understanding it. :) :laugh:

You got my support too Dissention. I agree with you both, if the band doesn't want bad PR, don't hire ppl who give it to represent you. And, I know that Mick knows it all now. So, something should happen in the next close time. Prior to that, they knew very little.

And, one thing that one of my favorite ppl said made sense to me...are we fans to FMac or an audience?

I love them, I buy everything about them, but, that doesn't mean that I think they piss gold. They are making a huge mistake by leaving JT in charge of their name and most valuable asset...their fans feelings and money.

Getting my Fire JT shirt ready.. What has FMac done for me? Gave me inspiration, poetry and shared emotion...what have they taken from me? A lot more than 59.95.

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I have to cry foul about the fan club bashing in this thread.

There are many, many other threads specifically dedicated to that topic in this forum and it just may be possible that not everyone wants to hear about it in just about every single thread on this site. I know I do not in this thread. If I wanted to read about it, I would go to the four other threads in which this currently is being discussed.

Again, this thread was supposed to be positive - but I guess that is apparently impossible.

Note: I am not saying anyone cannot post your comments about the fan club wherever they want. I am just politely asking that it be done somewhere other than this thread because, once again, this was supposed to be a postive thread looking for good things. In fact, Jake specifically said he was looking for something to pick him up, not bring him down, after all that that gone on. If that is not possible, e.g. if people feel the need to bash the fan club despite the pleas of others like myself not to do so in just about every thread, then so be it. But, I think it is a shame that people have so little respect and want to bring everyone down and into their own issue(s) :mad:

Note: Its late, I have been working since 6:00 a.m., and, therefore, am grumpy!! :laugh:

I guess Jake should have put a spoiler notice in the subject line that said "No Fan Club Bashers Welcome!" (this was meant as humor! :laugh: )

Point well taken and I agree. I don't see as many posts about this now, and I think that you guys should not have to see it everywhere, but, this should be everyone's issue if you love the band, cause this is gonna hurt them a lot ultimately. How sad to see this great group of artists have this blight on their last days. So, the more vocal we are, where it is appropriate, then the more likely we are to get JT out and get back to business as usual..

Don't be grumpy. ;)

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Ah Ha - I was like WTF :laugh: Its time for a martini and an Ambien in no specific order!!! :laugh:

hahahahaha...I have some zanax to bring to the party and maybe a vicodin or two from a past injury. sigh. :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

[i]
No harm - No foul!!!!!!! :wavey: :cool: [/B]

Have you been watching too much tv coverage about the wiretaps in the Peterson case?:laugh:

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by Jason T.
Just as a side note: Is anyone actually sure that Stevie and Lindsey and even John know about all this crap going on. You got to remember these people are fifty something and not very computer literate. That and I doubt the person who was put in charge of your fan club is going to come running to you yelling "I screwed up big time" because they know what will be the next words coming out of their mouths. Everyone right now has a reason to be angry, but remember ignorance is not a crime...

You make a good point, and besides Mick, none are in the know. Stevie has mentioned seeing the Fire Jonathan Todd t shirts and has asked I was told, so keep it up. It matters...sorry to digress again...going back into my hole...

[flyfirefly]

Listen, I wasn't rude to you in my reply to your post, don't be rude to me. [...] I remember quite a few of the posts you made on Mick's board back when all this stuff was happening; I'm glad to see your lack class made it here.

HAH! I guess the rest of your posts here make up for that? I'm glad to see that hypocrisy doesn't fail you.

As far as the Fan Club goes--bash all you want but you're just preaching to the choir here. That's why people -- or more specifically ME -- are tired of the bashing, and the bashing and the more bashing. All right, we get it. I don't think there are opinions to be changed about the fan club here.

Originally posted by stephmoore
Incidentally, yes. But don't forget -- the point of a tour is to make money for the band.

...Because I go to work just to smell the fresh new clothes. Appreciation points don't buy food & clothes.


;)

Other good things:
-recent radio interview: a woman called the station saying she'd written Stevie a fan letter, and Stevie actually wrote back. How's that for interaction?
-Fleetwood Mac's charity tickets for Sweet Relief: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2180010949
-websites !

[darklinensuit]

This is slightly off-topic, as it has not happened, but here's a thought.
I predict that if the band survives this tour without anybody walking out, the next thing to happen before or while they're in the studio again will be the re-issue of Buckingham Nicks.
I think this would be such an act of appreciation to the long-time fans, especially if it were followed by a small tour or televised concert (with Mick & John, even). (I am not predicting a tour, just the album re-issue.) If Stevie & Lindsey were to re-release this album (and no, I'm not saying they owe it to anybody;)), it might not be the most commercial next move they could choose, but it would be the most meaningful to some of us.

- Jake

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
hahahahaha...I have some zanax to bring to the party and maybe a vicodin or two from a past injury. sigh. :wavey:

Valium, thank you.;)

[darklinensuit]

I confess that I am extremely under-medicated, apparently. I've never taken any of these things.
And I'm not quite sure what kind of alcohol Ambien is, as I've never even heard of it. (Chances are I've probably confiscated it from a kid at some point, though.:cool: ) Maybe I'll try it in Dallas.

- Jake

[flyfirefly]

Silly, silly...Ambien's not an alcohol ;)

It's supposed to make you very, very sleepy. Does just the opposite for me however.

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
Silly, silly...Ambien's not an alcohol ;)

It's supposed to make you very, very sleepy. Does just the opposite for me however.

Interesting. Chocolate-covered cappuccino beans knock me out.

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Chocolate-covered cappuccino beans knock me out.See, for me, it's '60 Minutes'! :laugh:

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
See, for me, it's '60 Minutes'! :laugh:

Yeah, you're not the only one, and CBS is brainstorming how to throw in some excitement.
They're all going topless on the show next season.
It might work for Leslie Stahl, but I'll be tuning out before the Andy Roony segments.:)

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
CBS is brainstorming how to throw in some excitement.
They're all going topless on the show next season.
It might work for Leslie Stahl, but I'll be tuning out before the Andy Roony segments.Dude, you don't think Andy Rooney is a hottie???
What is wrong with you?!?

:laugh:

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Dude, you don't think Andy Rooney is a hottie???
What is wrong with you?!?

:laugh:

If I close my eyes & pretend he's a she, I guess the voice does have this come-hither quality. :laugh: I'll visualize Pamela Anderson with that voice. Oooh baby.

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
I'll visualize Pamela Anderson with that voice. Oooh baby.Ok, now that's just weird! :eek:

;) :D

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Ok, now that's just weird! :eek:

;) :D

Hey, at least I didn't say Andy with her voice. (Or weirder, Andy's face on her body.:eek: ) His face always reminded me of Mama's in Throw Mama from the Train.

- Jake

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
I confess that I am extremely under-medicated, apparently. I've never taken any of these things.
And I'm not quite sure what kind of alcohol Ambien is, as I've never even heard of it. (Chances are I've probably confiscated it from a kid at some point, though.:cool: ) Maybe I'll try it in Dallas.

- Jake

Ah...I have never taken Ambien but, I am pretty sure that it is a sleeping med...right?

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Dude, you don't think Andy Rooney is a hottie???
What is wrong with you?!?

:laugh:

I think Andy and Jimmy Iovine are neck in neck for the title "Best Unibrow." :laugh:

Rooney cracks me up! I was on the floor when he went to Camp David! :D

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by Mad4stevie
The way I look at it, the Mac has done more than enough for me. But that may be because I don't feel entitled to anything.

Maybe I am over generalizing, but most Mac/Stevie fans are fans because of the personal connection that is made through the music. Speaking from my own experience, Stevie had written songs that have spoken to me like no other songwriter/musican. I consider her/their music to be an incredible gift that teaches me things and comforts me in difficult times. I can't put a price on that kind of thing, because to me, it's irreplaceable.

As for doing things for financial gain . . . . come on, people! Making music is their "job"! That is how they make a living. Other than Mick and his past financial mismanagement, I can't fathom that they would need to do this because they have limited financial resources. Especially Stevie and Lindsey - they have all those songwriting royalties. If they are out of money, JLo doesn't have a chance!!!

Sure, who won't love to talk to Stevie or Lindsey, or whomever, in person?! But the reality of today is that there are alot of freaks out there. I can certainly understand why Stevie doesn't accept gifts on stage anymore. We can only imagine what stalker types have pursed them in the past. It is a safety issue for them.

Exactly, the music is their gift to us and I'm satisfied with that. Ya know it's funny that this topic has been brought up because just the other day my sister and I were reminiscing about the TISL tour and how impressed we both were that Stevie was showing so much love for her fans. I mean she was exuding devotion, it was (and still is) so obvious that she is really thankful and appreciative of her fans, especially keeping in mind all the **** she's been through and in turn what we (as fans) have been through with her.

[strandinthewind]

Ambien is a different kind of sleeping pill in that it allegedly leaves no drowsy after effects like say Tylenol PM does. It supposedly works of the hypnotic part of your brain that keeps you asleep. I think it is a wonderdrug as I have great difficulty sleeping sometimes!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

[disEnchanted]

Originally posted by trackaghost


I simply expect not to be ripped off by them.

Is that too much to ask?

:confused:

hell no

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
Ah...I have never taken Ambien but, I am pretty sure that it is a sleeping med...right?

Sorry, the original post in this thread mentioned it along with martinis, so I assumed it was alcohol in my naive way.
And my father's a pharmacist, too.

- Jake

[Bella Figura]

this little tidbit has gotten lost in the winding of this thread but serious clarifcation is required:

seeknpeace states in a previous post: "Stevie has mentioned seeing the Fire Jonathan Todd t shirts and has asked I was told, so keep it up. It matters...sorry to digress again...going back into my hole"


Seek can you elaborate on this statement??? who, when, where??? details, details, details!!!! c'mon, c'mon :)

firefly...I know you are frustrated because the FM fanclub fiasco keeps showing up in threads but please be patient. People were deeply hurt by this event and feel the need to vent and this is probably the one place they get real understanding and support. If you have been a longtime fan like myself, I'm sure in your real life when you've talked a little too much about FM, you have received the raised eyebrows and the rolling of eyes from friends and family. but here on the board, we all FM talk, all the time. any FM related subject you wish to obsess about is welcome here including fanclub issues.

so again be patient, this subject will probably resolve itself before the end of the year...if you have shown your support and signed the petition or filed a complaint as a fanclub member, you've now done your part so it's just wait and see...and hopefully some good will come of the uproar we've experienced on this and other message boards.

[darklinensuit]

Bella Figura - Is this Italian for Born Diplomat?:)

- Jake

[Bella Figura]

bella figura ----> means "good impression" in Italian. I chose that screenname for two reasons:

1) one of my stevie connections comes from the bella part - Stevie's album bella donna & my married last name has bella in it also...I'm Irish but I married an Italian, trading up last names...

2) my hubby used Bella Figura for a home based business he had going years ago, it's now defunct but we still get mail addressed often to Miss/Ms./Mrs. Bella Figura, so I appropriated her id for the Internet...and she is a keeper of peace ;) :wavey:

[darklinensuit]

I know what Bella Figura means; I was giving you a compliment!:wavey: :laugh: :laugh:
Seriously, it's interesting how you picked the screen name. I always like getting the scoop on what made posters pick their names.

- Jake

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
I know what Bella Figura means; I was giving you a compliment!:wavey: :laugh: :laugh:
Seriously, it's interesting how you picked the screen name. I always like getting the scoop on what made posters pick their names.

- Jake

Well, I know that ppl wonder at mine, considering that I am a fighter and I have wondered at it as well. I know that some on Micks board have referred to it as seeknwar..hehe..but, truthfully, when I chose it, there was a reason and it was applicable.

Today, well, if you can see chosing war as a means to obtaining peace, which I can, then you can still apply it. I kinda got the war for peace from like the revolutionary war, and civil war, and ww 1 and 2, and so forth. Kinda how we got freedom, cause for me, there is no peace without freedom. :nod:

[Bella Figura]

thanks for the compliment!!! I know it gets tiring to keep hearing about our fellow fans sorrows especially for all of us who were wise enough not to invest in the fanclub but we do need to show our support and be compassionate about their need to vent.

They have come up with some solid ways to address their grievances and that's the most important so we should be able to put up with a little more discussion and posts.

I know darklinensuit is from Stevie Nick's Garbo, but is there more to your screenname choice???

seek, did you see my question in my previous post???!!! :wavey:

[darklinensuit]

I just love the song Garbo, and it contains one of the few male references in a Stevie song (man in a dark linen suit). I didn't want to be Leather or Blue Denim or Castaway or Manintheroomnexttohers or Dancearoundmeinacircle, and I don't think the board needs one more Highwayman at this point.

Of course, after I registered here, I decided to open a Yahoo e-mail addy with the name ([email protected]). Interestingly, it's already taken.:rolleyes:

- Jake

[Shuvani]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Ah Ha - I was like WTF :laugh: Its time for a martini and an Ambien in no specific order!!! :laugh:

Or, as Dorothy Parker once said:
"I like to have a martini, two at the very most. Three I'm under the table, four I'm under my host."

Hee Hee!

[FiercestCalmSea]

Well,ok...here is my take on it..what has FM done for their fans? In my humble opinion,i think the music they put out is enough..the fact that they are still touring is awesome to me.I am 22 years old..so i was born in their heyday and missed them in their so-called "prime"..they could have stopped doing this years ago..but they didn't...and i get to see them now...and i am totally grateful for that.I know this is a positive thread..and i don't want to put a negative spin on it...but i don't really think that just because they are famous they are more obligated to do good deeds..the things you do for people should not be a byproduct of your status..you should want to connect with others regardless...i think FM has done that to an extent..they aren't aloof upon their throne of Rock n' Roll royalty so to speak..they aren't exactly going out of their way to meet fans i suppose...but really,like someone said,they have to use some caution cause of the all the weirdos out there.Anyway,that is just my two cents :)

[WindingRoad]

Some of you need a reality check really bad...imo

Stevie did cocaine for US? What? Stevie did cocaine for herself. That's how she chose to handle the difficulties in her life.

The band "toiling through blood, sweat and tears is enough? Again, What? Their "toil" was their lives. The lives they chose, the decisions they made. The goal of their "toil" was to make a record to make money. It had nothing to do with their fans. And why is their toil more meanigful or valuable than the toil all of us deal with every day?

I'm not saying they should give free concerts and do benefits and stuff. But they are public figures, and if they want to remain so, they need to pay attention to their public.

I used to belong to Reba MacEntire's fan club. The cost was minimal and meet and greet was free! To eveybody. All you had to do was show your membership card at the concert. Reba had plenty of security with her and was well protected from stalkers.

I love this band, BUT, they are indeed on their Rock N Roll Royalty throne.

Just my opinion. Flame away if you like. :D

susieq :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

This is weird but true. In regards to Reba, in order to move her around without being seen by everyone they had a specially made road case that she would just hop into and they would move her from point a to point b. :nod:

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
This is weird but true. In regards to Reba, in order to move her around without being seen by everyone they had a specially made road case that she would just hop into and they would move her from point a to point b. :nod:

Oh, this is begging for a separate thread: What would Stevie have in her specially designed road case? (Can you say a Yorkie, some Janis beads, a piano, a stack of journals, a Sulamith painting, a book of poetry, and some burning incense to clog up the air holes?)

- Jake

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by WindingRoad
Some of you need a reality check really bad...imo

Stevie did cocaine for US? What? Stevie did cocaine for herself. That's how she chose to handle the difficulties in her life.

The band "toiling through blood, sweat and tears is enough? Again, What? Their "toil" was their lives. The lives they chose, the decisions they made. The goal of their "toil" was to make a record to make money. It had nothing to do with their fans. And why is their toil more meanigful or valuable than the toil all of us deal with every day?

I'm not saying they should give free concerts and do benefits and stuff. But they are public figures, and if they want to remain so, they need to pay attention to their public.

I used to belong to Reba MacEntire's fan club. The cost was minimal and meet and greet was free! To eveybody. All you had to do was show your membership card at the concert. Reba had plenty of security with her and was well protected from stalkers.

I love this band, BUT, they are indeed on their Rock N Roll Royalty throne.

Just my opinion. Flame away if you like. :D

susieq :wavey:


Bravo and well said in my opinion Susie Q...not sure why they are revered as they are. I love the music, but, I see the people, and they have not lived a life worth emulating at all. It made for great music, but, I agree with most of what you said.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by WindingRoad
Some of you need a reality check really bad...imo

Stevie did cocaine for US? What? Stevie did cocaine for herself. That's how she chose to handle the difficulties in her life.

The band "toiling through blood, sweat and tears is enough? Again, What? Their "toil" was their lives. The lives they chose, the decisions they made. The goal of their "toil" was to make a record to make money. It had nothing to do with their fans. And why is their toil more meanigful or valuable than the toil all of us deal with every day?Hmm, well, since I made the comments you addressed, I might as well take a stab at responding. :)

First, I think it's twisting my words a bit, to write that I said Stevie did cocaine for us.
As I thought I made clear, Stevie is totally responsible for decisions she's made... however, I can't imagine there having been a need to do cocaine, if it weren't for the need to have the energy for live performances, and photo-shoots, and recording sessions, and video-shoots, and interview sessions, etc., etc.

And let's face it... who do you do all that crap for?
The Fans.
If Stevie didn't tour, and do videos, etc., who would've cried and whined the most?
The Fans.

We're a demanding lot, and I think Stevie, in particular, did a damn good job of trying to please everyone.
And yes, it was HER career, and HER livelyhood... but just as we work hard to please our bosses in order to continue earning a living, entertainers work hard to please their fans.

I don't think anyone (especially me) is disputing the fact that this IS their career of choice, and that decisions they make are solely their own... but I most definitely feel that many (though certainly not all) sacrifices were made in order to keep the fans happy over the years.

But someone will always think they should have done more... that's just the nature of the beast.

Personally, I love this band's music, and I own all of their albums... but it's always been my choice whether or not I buy what they're selling, so I don't feel they owe me a single thing.

That's just the way I see it. If no one agrees with me, that's fine. :)

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
As I thought I made clear, Stevie is totally responsible for decisions she's made... however, I can't imagine there having been a need to do cocaine, if it weren't for the need to have the energy for live performances, and photo-shoots, and recording sessions, and video-shoots, and interview sessions, etc., etc.

And let's face it... who do you do all that crap for?
The Fans.
If Stevie didn't tour, and do videos, etc., who would've cried and whined the most?
The Fans.


I completely respect your opinion, but to say that she did all that stuff for the fans is ridiculous. She did photo shoots, interviews, videos, and music for her fans? C'mon now. She did shoots, videos, and interviews to sell her product. She made the music to please herself. Now, I think in some small way she put music out for fans to enjoy, but it most certainly isn't a main reason. AND, there is NO "need" to do drugs to have the energy to do what she did. There are loads of artists who had just as much on their plates and never sniffed anything up their nose.

However, I do agree that Stevie, NOT the Mac, tours for the fans. That is evident. :)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
. . . AND, there is NO "need" to do drugs to have the energy to do what she did. There are loads of artists who had just as much on their plates and never sniffed anything up their nose.

I agree now, but that was the 70's :laugh: In fact I know of no artist of FM scale or a little lower that did not use lots of drugs in the 70's. I appears to me it is not so much that way anymore. So, I take all of the drug stuff in stride and remember the time period, etc.

Also, I think it is possible that they do what they do for both themselves and the fans. It kind of reminds me of a somewhat silly debate I had to do one time in school about selfish people can be good. I used Mother Teresa (sp?) as an example. I argued she was "selfish" in a good way in that she loved her work so much, she was in reality doing it to please herself. I think somewhat the same applies to Stevie and perhaps the Mac.

[David]

Originally posted by flyfirefly
They are only musicians, the are not saints or Gods and they give you music--they don't owe anyone anything. What does it matter what they've given you? Isn't the music enough? Well, they don't actually give me their music.

I have to buy it.

[David]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
And let's face it... who do you do all that crap for?
The Fans.
If Stevie didn't tour, and do videos, etc., who would've cried and whined the most?
The Fans.
Can't you look at this equally validly from the public's perspective? If 18 million fans didn't purchase "Rumours," who would've cried & whined the most? The band.

We're a demanding lot, and I think Stevie, in particular, did a damn good job of trying to please everyone.
And yes, it was HER career, and HER livelyhood... but just as we work hard to please our bosses in order to continue earning a living, entertainers work hard to please their fans. But you didn't finish the rest of your sentence. "Just as we work hard to please our bosses in order to continue earning a living, entertainers work hard to please their fans" ... in order to continue earning a living!

Some other people in this thread said that Fleetwood Mac makes music & CDs for me. That puts a loony, simplistic spin on what is really a very complex interrelationship between the published musician & the consumer. When I buy the new CD by Fleetwood Mac, am I doing it for them? It's a business transaction, a marketplace event. Both sides happen to benefit: Fleetwood Mac makes a good living & enjoys the emotional benefits of adulation & connection; the consumers get to pop a CD in the car CD player or have a great time at a live show. It's Fleetwood Mac's living; it's our recreation, our hobby, even in some cases our emotional healing. It's symbiotic. But it ain't one literally giving something to the other. If John McVie paid this month's bills for me, that's giving me something. If he washed & waxed my kitchen floor, that's giving me something. But he & his bandmates don't give me their music. I buy it.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I agree now, but that was the 70's :laugh: In fact I know of no artist of FM scale or a little lower that did not use lots of drugs in the 70's. I appears to me it is not so much that way anymore. So, I take all of the drug stuff in stride and remember the time period, etc.




Yes but does anyone really "remember" the 70's, especially that period from about late 1976 to about the mid 80's?:eek: :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind


Also, I think it is possible that they do what they do for both themselves and the fans. It kind of reminds me of a somewhat silly debate I had to do one time in school about selfish people can be good. I used Mother Teresa (sp?) as an example. I argued she was "selfish" in a good way in that she loved her work so much, she was in reality doing it to please herself. I think somewhat the same applies to Stevie and perhaps the Mac.

I think that's an excellent point. And just to add something further to it, if I may? Mother Teresa did her work becasue I believe she had a "calling" to do it and I believe it's the same thing with Stevie and her writing.

[Lily]

Well said, Johnny Stew. I totally agree. :)

[wondergirl9847]

Ted Nugent and Dee Snider (Twisted Sister) SAY they never did drugs and they don't drink (probably heavily they mean)....of course, Ted had his share of groupies, but not EVERY rock star is a coke sniffer/drunk.

Hehe.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
Can't you look at this equally validly from the public's perspective? If 18 million fans didn't purchase "Rumours," who would've cried & whined the most? The band.

But you didn't finish the rest of your sentence. "Just as we work hard to please our bosses in order to continue earning a living, entertainers work hard to please their fans" ... in order to continue earning a living!

Some other people in this thread said that Fleetwood Mac makes music & CDs for me. That puts a loony, simplistic spin on what is really a very complex interrelationship between the published musician & the consumer. When I buy the new CD by Fleetwood Mac, am I doing it for them? It's a business transaction, a marketplace event. Both sides happen to benefit: Fleetwood Mac makes a good living & enjoys the emotional benefits of adulation & connection; the consumers get to pop a CD in the car CD player or have a great time at a live show. It's Fleetwood Mac's living; it's our recreation, our hobby, even in some cases our emotional healing. It's symbiotic. But it ain't one literally giving something to the other. If John McVie paid this month's bills for me, that's giving me something. If he washed & waxed my kitchen floor, that's giving me something. But he & his bandmates don't give me their music. I buy it. You make very valid points, David, and I do agree with you.
My posts have a tendency to get a bit verbose though, so sometimes I decide to refrain from veering off into yet another side of the argument, simply for the sake of my fingers, my keyboard, and the poor people reading these. :)

Yes, this whole situation is an "I'll scratch your back, if you'll scratch mine" kind of thing.
I tend to assume that's inherent, so I didn't bother mentioning it.

Fleetwood Mac does record and tour in the hopes that people will buy what they're selling... they need us.
And no, they don't "give" us anything in the completely philanthropic meaning of the word, but they are supplying what we want to buy, when they (well, at least some of the members of the band) could have just hung it up years ago and lived off their royalties. Which, to me, implies that a large part of what they're doing is for the fans.

As you said, it's symbiotic: If Fleetwood Mac continues to record, then I'll continue to buy... and if I continue to buy, hopefully they'll continue to record.

The main point I was trying to make, is that it's my choice to buy. No one is putting a gun to my head.
I like the music for hundreds of various reasons, and it has always been enough to satisfy me.
I try not to put demands on the things that make me happy, and to just appreciate them for what they are.

I know that's probably a pretty naive way to look at it, but it has held me in good stead this long, so I think I'm going to stick with it. :)

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by David
Can't you look at this equally validly from the public's perspective? If 18 million fans didn't purchase "Rumours," who would've cried & whined the most? The band.

But you didn't finish the rest of your sentence. "Just as we work hard to please our bosses in order to continue earning a living, entertainers work hard to please their fans" ... in order to continue earning a living!

Some other people in this thread said that Fleetwood Mac makes music & CDs for me. That puts a loony, simplistic spin on what is really a very complex interrelationship between the published musician & the consumer. When I buy the new CD by Fleetwood Mac, am I doing it for them? It's a business transaction, a marketplace event. Both sides happen to benefit: Fleetwood Mac makes a good living & enjoys the emotional benefits of adulation & connection; the consumers get to pop a CD in the car CD player or have a great time at a live show. It's Fleetwood Mac's living; it's our recreation, our hobby, even in some cases our emotional healing. It's symbiotic. But it ain't one literally giving something to the other. If John McVie paid this month's bills for me, that's giving me something. If he washed & waxed my kitchen floor, that's giving me something. But he & his bandmates don't give me their music. I buy it.

I agree with this almost completely, but I'd like to point out that many fans DO purchase the albums for the benefit of the band. We can download the songs off the net if all we want is the music. We want to give this band the royalties & the platinum certification. I imagine that at least a couple posters on this board have bought more than one copy of SYW to help boost sales.

And since you brought it up, John McVie is scrubbing my toilet right now as I surf the Ledge. That's why he doesn't talk onstage: He's too pooped, not to mention loaded on Clorox fumes. :D

- Jake

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by David
Can't you look at this equally validly from the public's perspective? If 18 million fans didn't purchase "Rumours," who would've cried & whined the most? The band.

But you didn't finish the rest of your sentence. "Just as we work hard to please our bosses in order to continue earning a living, entertainers work hard to please their fans" ... in order to continue earning a living!

Some other people in this thread said that Fleetwood Mac makes music & CDs for me. That puts a loony, simplistic spin on what is really a very complex interrelationship between the published musician & the consumer. When I buy the new CD by Fleetwood Mac, am I doing it for them? It's a business transaction, a marketplace event. Both sides happen to benefit: Fleetwood Mac makes a good living & enjoys the emotional benefits of adulation & connection; the consumers get to pop a CD in the car CD player or have a great time at a live show. It's Fleetwood Mac's living; it's our recreation, our hobby, even in some cases our emotional healing. It's symbiotic. But it ain't one literally giving something to the other. If John McVie paid this month's bills for me, that's giving me something. If he washed & waxed my kitchen floor, that's giving me something. But he & his bandmates don't give me their music. I buy it.

Well said Dave...I buy it, they do not give it to me. This "relationship" gives them a lot to be thankful for, not just us fortunate fans. And, now, we have Jonathan Todd, and this fan club mess, that has to be resolved and if it is NOT, then I am ready to go for the band. It has taken me some time to get to that point, but, there are things that I know now.

They are in a position of a certain type of power and leadership, which they opted for and they wanted. It was not just music. They have lived as rock royalty and it was preparation meeting opportunity and some luck.

[seeknpeace]

This argument has taken an interesting philosophical turn though. Is there such a thing as altruism? Does any band do what they are doing for the fans? Hmm I can't imagine anyone does! I guess its either, money, the feeling of being worshiped and adored or the enjoyment of doing it really. I like the third option the best myself, although I'd like to think band's appreciate their fans too

I like the third one too. I do not think that Stevie Nicks did not have a family to make me happy. I think that she was driven and had a deep thirst for being a rock star, and they are tied together. I think some bands do appreciate their fans. Again, I have to quote my buddy Dave, to Fleetwood Mac we are an audience, not fans. This club crap is proving that to me even more.

[Anthony]

What a whirlwind! I've finally read every post on this thread.
I didn't know about the Fan club scandal.
I didn't know Johnny Stew was a philosopher. I failed philosophy in college.
I now know what Ambien is.
Back on track.....
I know this is gonna raise a few eyebrows, but here it is.
If Limp Bizkit can throw free concerts in a park, on a whim, why not Fleetwood Mac? Sure, it isn't owed to anyone, but wouldn't it be cool and simbiotic? A nice thankyou to the loyal fans and a way to develop some new fans to generate extra income. Everyone would be happy. I know, I know......I'm dreaming, must be the ambien.

[FiercestCalmSea]

If Limp Bizkit can throw free concerts in a park, on a whim, why not Fleetwood Mac?


No s**t right??? I never thought of that..but really...why in the hell not...you'd think Stevie would get the idea from her pal Sheryl..

[macmar71]

Fleetwood Mac kept me sane when I was a very depressed teenager, it gave me something to listen to and look forward to.
Through my love of their music, I have met many people who share the same love for the music and the band, so the Mac has brought me some great friends as well as gotten me through a tough time or two.

[WindingRoad]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

Stevie is probably the best example of that, as she nearly killed herself trying to make everyone happy.
One could argue that no one is responsible for her drug addictions but her, and that would definitely be true... but the whole impetus behind doing cocaine in the first place, was to have the energy to continue making music, and performing... to please us.

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Hmm, well, since I made the comments you addressed, I might as well take a stab at responding. :)

First, I think it's twisting my words a bit, to write that I said Stevie did cocaine for us.


As you can see, Johnny Stew, Stevie using cocaine "to please us " is EXACTLY what you said.

Perhaps you'd want to reread your posts before accusing someone of twisting your words. :shocked:

susieq :(

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by WindingRoad
As you can see, Johnny Stew, Stevie using cocaine "to please us " is EXACTLY what you said.

Perhaps you'd want to reread your posts before accusing someone of twisting your words.Personally, I think there is a difference between saying "the whole impetus behind doing cocaine in the first place, was to have the energy to continue making music, and performing," the outcome of which (more music and more performances), hopefully pleases the fans; and in the overly-simplified statement that Stevie did cocaine for us.

But I can understand how that conclusion could be drawn from what I originally said.

Still, I stand behind my comments... I'll just try to be clearer with my statements next time around. :)

[Anthony]

I know I shouldn't side-track y'all here, but I must, I must.
This "who did what for who" thing keeps reminding me of Pete Townshend saying he "researched" kiddy-porn, so he could write a book. Something about being able to develop a sense of retrospect.
Okay, there, I said it. It's out of my system now.
I'm almost glad that I didn't become a rock-star. I can't think of any whose personal lives aren't a mess. Hey, maybe that could be a new thread in the chit-chat forum.