Chicago Tribune Article: "Fleetwood Mac, Revisited"

[joe68]

Fleetwood Mac, revisited
Lindsey Buckingham sheds solo wings to become part of ban

Greg Kot, Tribune rock critic
Published June 20, 2003

Connoisseurs of eccentric studio mavericks think Lindsey Buckingham is slumming by playing in Fleetwood Mac. His oddball touches--layered, androgynous vocal choirs and finger-picked bluegrass-style guitars--dominated his lost 1992 solo gem, "Out of the Cradle." They're also sprinkled throughout "Say You Will" (Warner), which reunites four-fifths of Fleetwood Mac's multimillion-selling '70s lineup: Buckingham, Stevie Nicks, Mick Fleetwood and John McVie (but not Christine McVie, who has retired). A national tour brings Mac to the Allstate Arena Thursday and Friday. In an interview, Buckingham chatted about why he had to abandon his solo album to make the reunion work:

Q. You told me in 1997 you had a solo record 90 percent done and that you did not envision your reunion tour with Fleetwood Mac at the time as a long-term deal. What changed your mind?




A. I was very anxious to get back to the solo work, but by the time I did, the climate was getting scary over at Warner Brothers, because AOL had bought Time-Warner, and the people who I had good relationships with were already gone. The people who were left didn't like my solo album, so I thought I'm not gonna put this out here now. They were more interested in me putting out an album with Fleetwood Mac. It was a tradeoff for me, because it broadens out the audience but it also broadens out the purity of the intent of the solo work. But the vibe was good, and Stevie's songs were good, so I thought, why not?

Q. What arethe main differences from past incarnations of the band?

A. The obvious thing in terms of the three songwriters was that Christine was absent. I had quite an assertive guitar style on the album Stevie and I did before joining Fleetwood Mac in the '70s, but as soon as we joined the band, there was a big exercise in adapting, because John as a bass player is very melodic and fills up space, and Christine can fill up space with the keyboards, and there was not a lot of room for me to maneuver as a guitar player. It was an exercise in adapting down, down to even changing the type of guitar I wanted to play, because it didn't fit the sound of the band. Without Christine, everyone has 33 percent more room to maneuver. Another thing is that you have a different dynamic with just Stevie and myself doing the writing. You have a clearer kind of picture, this exchange of songs between the two of us, which becomes the subtext of the album, the sense of how circular this little journey has been, and now here we are at the beginning of a phase that if hopefully we keep making each other happy, there is this sense of promise. We'd like to break the cliche of rock 'n' rollers burning out by the time they're 40.

Q. The tensions within the band in the '70s produced a lot of great songs about relationships and break-ups. Now that everyone's getting along, how has that affected your creativity?

A. The tension that was going on was a musical soap opera, and became part of the appeal of us as a group. It was a kind of voyeurism that had nothing to do with the music. I'm not sure that kind of negativity and denial we had to go through was necessarily any better for the music. It certainly was better for the image, and the overall story. But we've all become better musicians and gained a certain amount of confidence that we didn't have back then, both as players and as people. For me, specifically, we're melding the more personal, eccentric "Tusk" approach with the group-minded "Rumours" approach, which feels unprecedented. There is tension, but it's a different kind. The mantra now is to build trust and to appreciate how we mesh together, even though we're all very different as people.

Q. Among the first words on the album are you singing, "You can't plant no seed/Where there's only greed." Tickets for Fleetwood Mac's tour exceed $100. Care to comment on that apparent contradiction?

A. [Laughs] I certainly don't have any say in ticket prices. I certainly haven't chosen to have any say in it.

Q. Why not?

A. Honestly, if you'd asked me six months ago what's the average price of a concert ticket, I wouldn't have been able to tell you whether it's 40 bucks or 100 bucks, because that's just not a part of my awareness. It is unfortunate how expensive it has become. The idea of that song ["What's the World Coming To"] is about the corporate trickle down that makes it more difficult to be an individual. I understand what you're saying about the equation between ticket prices and the use of the word "greed," and, yes, what we're doing is part of the corporate machinery, but I would question whether there is really a contradiction there. We are part of a large-scale band that cannot pretend it is anything other than that.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by joe68
Q. Among the first words on the album are you singing, "You can't plant no seed/Where there's only greed." Tickets for Fleetwood Mac's tour exceed $100. Care to comment on that apparent contradiction?

A. [Laughs] I certainly don't have any say in ticket prices. I certainly haven't chosen to have any say in it.

Q. Why not?

A. Honestly, if you'd asked me six months ago what's the average price of a concert ticket, I wouldn't have been able to tell you whether it's 40 bucks or 100 bucks, because that's just not a part of my awareness. It is unfortunate how expensive it has become. The idea of that song ["What's the World Coming To"] is about the corporate trickle down that makes it more difficult to be an individual. I understand what you're saying about the equation between ticket prices and the use of the word "greed," and, yes, what we're doing is part of the corporate machinery, but I would question whether there is really a contradiction there. We are part of a large-scale band that cannot pretend it is anything other than that.

PUHLEESE :rolleyes: Do I see LB spinning it a little? Just say it - we want to make a bunch of cash and that is the way it is. Note: I have no problem with that concept and hope one day to make a pile-o-cash myself!!!! :laugh:

[Miranda]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
PUHLEESE :rolleyes: Do I see LB spinning it a little? Just say it - we want to make a bunch of cash and that is the way it is. Note: I have no problem with that concept and hope one day to make a pile-o-cash myself!!!! :laugh:

I see the same thing. Spinin wheel got to go round! $$$ :nod:

[CarneVaca]

Hmmm... If nothing else, this shows how the people in this band are pretty spoiled. Not to know that tickets are hovering around $100 smacks of indifference to the experience of the common man and woman.

No wonder his more recent songs have more of a philosophical bent about the state of the world. If he wanted to pull a Springsteen and get right in the thick of it, he might actually have to find out that people are paying ungodly amounts of money to see him play and that a lot of these people may have lost jobs or taken pay cuts in the past year or so.

No, Lindsey, that kind of answer will not do. Saying "I don't know" is a cop-out.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Hmmm... If nothing else, this shows how the people in this band are pretty spoiled. Not to know that tickets are hovering around $100 smacks of indifference to the experience of the common man and woman.

No wonder his more recent songs have more of a philosophical bent about the state of the world. If he wanted to pull a Springsteen and get right in the thick of it, he might actually have to find out that people are paying ungodly amounts of money to see him play and that a lot of these people may have lost jobs or taken pay cuts in the past year or so.

No, Lindsey, that kind of answer will not do. Saying "I don't know" is a cop-out.

Excellent points. I really hate to bring the fan club up (since it seems to creep into all of our other conversations as well) but I can't help myself. Before I couldn't imagine them being so naive as to not know what was going on, and I was angry about what seemed to be an utter indifference on their parts... but considering that Lindsey doesn't even know the damn ticket prices (and you know Stevie has no clue either, and John couldn't care less), I don't see how we can assume that they know anything about the JT fiasco.

Either way you look at it, it's complete apathy from them. It's very disheartening.

[shackin'up]

Okay, I agree with the criticism here, but let's be fair. Lindsey (and the rest) has always been a bit of a cocky, arrogant artist. And very Arty, too. (stevie too, although she's very kind and accessible for those who worship her....;) ).
So this quote about 40 or 100 bucks, I will never exept that from anybody, but it doesn't surprise me out of his mouth. These people are not on the face of this earth. they are above it a couple of inches. Let them stay there. But don't expect any sense when it comes to the things you need a normal human perspective for.....

Don't get me wrong I adore them, as much as you, as a band....

gerald:p

[strandinthewind]

Well, I will say this - for the last AHI benefits, SN has said she personally made sure the upper levels were more afforable so the kids in school could afford to go. She purposely made it more accessible for them. She also said The Dance tour tickets were expensive because it cost a lot of $$$ to take FM on the road, which is sort of what LB said above. Again, I have no ill will with them, I say just call a spade a spade and get rid of the spin :cool:

[jeffs]

They charge $150 because that is what they want to charge to make their $200,000 a peace per show. They could charge $40 if they wanted to be less greedy. LB is pleading ignorant to something he is completely in the know about. I am sure they know about the fan club fiasco as well. No way they don't at this point - they just do not care.

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by shackin'up
Okay, I agree with the criticism here, but let's be fair. Lindsey (and the rest) has always been a bit of a cocky, arrogant artist. And very Arty, too. (stevie too, although she's very kind and accessible for those who worship her....;) ).
So this quote about 40 or 100 bucks, I will never exept that from anybody, but it doesn't surprise me out of his mouth. These people are not on the face of this earth. they are above it a couple of inches. Let them stay there. But don't expect any sense when it comes to the things you need a normal human perspective for.....

Don't get me wrong I adore them, as much as you, as a band....

gerald:p

Agreed, and also to add, I think everyone knows what they're getting into when they make the decision to see a Fleetwood Mac show. To paraphrase Lindsey, they're a big band who expect big returns. Sad but true.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by trackaghost
It pains me to say it, but Lindsey at one point agreed to the price he was being paid thus influencing the price of the ticket, so he is a hypocrite like the writer rightly pointed out.
Still love him though...


~Sharon~

I agree - but I think it is a little darker than that. For those of you familiar with the silent era of movies, there were three great directors, Cecil B. DeMille, D.W. Griffith, and Eric Von Stroheim. DeMille and Griffith are widely known to this day.

However, like LB's guitar playing and overall production of music, Eric Von Stroheim's direction could be as close to flawless as you will ever get. The problem was Eric Von Stroheim would go four times over budget and take years longer than originally planned to complete a picture. He also insisted on everything being authentic even though it would not read on camera (e.g. underwear for a period gown, real money in a cash register that was not even an intergral part of the scene, etc.). He also was known to do over 100 takes of the same scene when even the most trained eyes could discern no difference in the takes. Finally, he had a perverse sense of humor and insisted on directing the actors in this way. The end result was usually a brilliant body of work that bordered on perfection but it would never play in a theater because it was: (1) four hours long instead of one and one-half; (2) cost four times as much to shoot as originally planned; and (3) the subject matter was often too far into left feild and was censorable due to its perversity.

Sound like anyone we know :cool:

[Sugar]

No doubt it costs way more for Fleetwood Mac to put on a show these days, and much of that is Fleetwood Mac's choice. For Pete's sake, they've got an entire second band backing them up! And they all need to get paid too, as well as paying for those projection screens and what is probably a huge road crew.

Of course those ticket prices are also supporting Mick's silly drum vest, a very lovely spread of food and drink backstage, and all of Stevie's costumes, which you know are stupid expensive. I resigned myself long ago to the fact that these guys are terribly pampered and out of touch with the real world. And I frankly doubt any of them are all that concerned with the fan base, other than it being a means to perpetuate themselves. Oh, I know some of you have met Stevie, and say how great she was and that she REALLY cares about her fans, but I still don't buy it. I'll never forget reading that interview she did with Courtney Love (was it in Spin?) how she mostly spoke about only wanting the finer things and knowing she was too good for JC Penny's. I was so disappointed and it forever changed my opinion of her. The fact that she actually said those things in an interview is only further evidence of how out of touch she is. The rest of them, I figure, are much the same to one extent or another.

But then, what the hell, those tickets are selling, and maybe I wouldn't be any better if I were in those shoes (custom made platforms, please)... :shrug:

[Tusk57]

Okay so Lindsey wasn't exactly forthcoming in his answer. He did crack a smile when the reporter hit him with that question. However in my humble opinion, you guys are sounding like a bunch of Socialists. If he can get that much for a ticket, then more power to him. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to pay it. I know if I had the talent he does, I would sure like to get paid whatever the market will pay. I don't begrudge him or Fleetwood Mac. They paid their dues. They have a lot of overhead to deal with. Anway, it's none of our business when you get down to it. They are a great band and don't come around that often, so I don't mind shelling out the big bucks to see them in action.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Tusk57
Okay so Lindsey wasn't exactly forthcoming in his answer. He did crack a smile when the reporter hit him with that question. However in my humble opinion, you guys are sounding like a bunch of Socialists. If he can get that much for a ticket, then more power to him. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to pay it. I know if I had the talent he does, I would sure like to get paid whatever the market will pay. I don't begrudge him or Fleetwood Mac. They paid their dues. They have a lot of overhead to deal with. Anway, it's none of our business when you get down to it. They are a great band and don't come around that often, so I don't mind shelling out the big bucks to see them in action.

I see your point. But, that was not the point I was making. My point was that I found LB's answer that he did not know how much tickets costs silly and that it is obvious he has some idea based on the spin-o-rama he spewed :laugh:

Again, I am all for making a pile-o-cash off of the willing and freely paying public. Its not like we need Fleetwood Mac the same as we need inexpensive water or free air - but then again . . . . :cool:

And - not only did he get my $125 plus the $48,987,988.99 Ticketmaster service charge, I bought him and the rest of them a drink in Atlanta. See - he's getting more money out me by the second! :cool: :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Sugar
I'll never forget reading that interview she did with Courtney Love (was it in Spin?) how she mostly spoke about only wanting the finer things and knowing she was too good for JC Penny's. I was so disappointed and it forever changed my opinion of her. The fact that she actually said those things in an interview is only further evidence of how out of touch she is.I remember that interview... I didn't see anything necessarily "out of touch" about Stevie's comments there.

The entire vibe of the interview was "girl talk," with Courtney and Stevie dishing about men, and glamour, and all the trappings of rock and roll life. :)
So Stevie very honestly said that she likes the finer things in life, and that she's very grateful that she's able to afford those things.

And I think a lot of people have felt like that at various times in their lives... buying clothes in a "bargain store," while wishing they could afford something fancier.

Me? I feel that if I can't find it at a bargain store, then I don't need it. Growing up in a town where the main source of income was a steel-mill that closed when I was 11, I saw a lot of people (including my parents) out of work, and scrimping and saving to buy necessities... so I always have pangs of guilt when I spend money on something "frivolous."
But hey, I certainly don't begrudge someone else the luxury of spending their money on what they wish.

And in Stevie's case, she gives a lot of money to charities, performs benefit concerts, and has given over the royalties to some of her songs for friends with financial problems... so despite her love for "the finer things," she is generous with her money. :)

[darklinensuit]

I agree with Johnny, not to mention that Stevie has made clear she'd rather rummage for clothes in an attic chest that get them off the fashion runway. And if she'd prefer to have Blackdress custom made to buying it off the rack at Penney's, more power to her. She's earned the money. I don't think that by saying this is what she likes that she's disrespecting the people who are happy at the bargain bins.

- Jake

[Keith]

the steep ticket prices has kept me in check.. i've been to only the D.C. show. It was a $144 well spent, because my favorite band made me feel young again.. I'm still enjoying the boots from the tour... it's so good to know that Fleetwood Mac still has the live magic... but $125 a ticket is steep. I'm sure it's expensive to tour.. but then our band loves to spend a lot of $$$ to be as comfortable as possible on tour.. if my $144 goes to help make Stevie more comfy in an expensive hotel.. then be it.. she is still out there on tour making beautiful music in her high top reaboks.... I do hope they return to the East Coast, as I would love to hear them again..

i heard 'Say You Will' on 94.7 yesterday.. D.C.'s classic rock station.. they played a rock block from FM - Oh Well, Rhiannon, Say You Will (album version), and Don't Stop.. it was good to hear the new one on the radio.. sounded classic! :-)

[DownOnRodeo]

Strand - have you ever seen an episode of Young Indiana Jones Chronicles where Indy has to fo persuade a crazed European-accented film-maker to wrap up the shoot. Sounds like they based him on that von Stronheim character. Thanks for the info.

[shackin'up]

Originally posted by Tusk57
Okay so Lindsey wasn't exactly forthcoming in his answer. He did crack a smile when the reporter hit him with that question. However in my humble opinion, you guys are sounding like a bunch of Socialists. If he can get that much for a ticket, then more power to him. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to pay it. I know if I had the talent he does, I would sure like to get paid whatever the market will pay. I don't begrudge him or Fleetwood Mac. They paid their dues. They have a lot of overhead to deal with. Anway, it's none of our business when you get down to it. They are a great band and don't come around that often, so I don't mind shelling out the big bucks to see them in action.

Well, beside the fact that I'm a convinced socialist, this point of view doesn't put anything extra to the discussion: Lindsey himself has started it by singing "you can't plant no seed where there's only greed....so sorry tusky57, but we didn't start the fire....:rolleyes:


gerald

[Tusk57]

I admit it would be nice to see them only, let's say $10 a ticket like back in the old days! However, more to the point---
Lindsey's own lyrics actually get him out of the apparent pickle he is in...to wit, "you can't plant no seed where there's only greed" is a double negative and really means that you CAN plant a seed where there's only greed! Now I will stand back and begin to accept apologies from the budding socialist, shackin'up. ;)

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Tusk57
Lindsey's own lyrics actually get him out of the apparent pickle he is in...to wit, "you can't plant no seed where there's only greed" is a double negative and really means that you CAN plant a seed where there's only greed! :laugh:
Lindsey is more clever than we thought! ;)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Strand - have you ever seen an episode of Young Indiana Jones Chronicles where Indy has to fo persuade a crazed European-accented film-maker to wrap up the shoot. Sounds like they based him on that von Stronheim character. Thanks for the info.

I am pretty sure that was based on Eric Von Stroheim. Pretty much every crazy European Director is. Interestingly, Eric VS is the director that caused Gloria Swanson (one of my all time fav's ) to break up with Joe Kennedy (father of Pres. John Kennedy). That is actually quite a story :laugh:

[jwd]

This tour is ridiculously high-priced!! NO ONE needs to be that pampered on tour. It's time for Fleetwood Mac to start giving back to its' fans. How many people can't afford to go that would go and see the band play?! I'm sure it's quite a few. If the band were doing it for the music they would make sure the prices were much cheaper. It's just all a bunch of bullcrap in my opinion. I'm so glad the interviewer called Lindsey on that. Lindsey is part of that corporate structure that he hypocritically slams in WTWCT. Practice what you preach buddy!! But I still think you're one hell of a guitar player!


Joe

[Vianna]

Rock bands are, in a way, like royalty-or like it used to be anyway. They have little connection to the common people unless thay decide to go out there and have contact with them. Lindsey stays holed up in a studio for months on end. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know a ticket price-that's just how out of ordinary life he is. They all have accountants and managers that take care of all that sort of mundane stuff for them. Not that that necessarily excuses them-it's just how it is.

[Tusk57]

jwd I see your point. Lindsey is trying to have it both ways and then when someone had the balls to call him on it, he did the old song and dance routine---threw up a lot of dust and hoped to skate through to the next question and maybe nobody would notice. If I where him, I'd forget about writing a song like that. I think he tried to be like a John Lennon and be a populist to the masses. Stick to the more personal stuff like Stevie does. You can't get into too much trouble there. There is nothing wrong with being rich and raking in a ton of money. He earned it. That is the american way. By the way, that would be a novel idea to write a pro-greed song. Ha ha!

[Tusk57]

Touche, touche trackaghost!!! Give me forty lashes with a wet noodle, then have a beer on me! :laugh: Bill

[dissention]

It's obvious from Lindsey's comments that he is in it just for the money, just like the other band members. I think Stevie summed it up on the All Access show with "This isn't about art, it's about finances." Now, you can spin that statement and twist it into some relationship bull**** but, as Strand said, a spade is a spade.

Lindsey has said it himself: the reconvening, even for a new album, is about money. He couldn't release his stuff unless it was under the Mac name, so he released it under the Mac name. Whether or not the music is good, it doesn't matter; it was put out for money.

His comments about the ticket prices are just a bunch of malarkey. "I don't know anything about ticket prices." Yeah, even though you're in the entertainment industry and make your money off of ticket sales, you don't know anything, Lindsey. Please. This band is becoming sad.

The music is great, but the people making the music leave a lot to be desired in the moral arenas. Their attempts to cash-in are disgusting and reprehensible.

Also, the god otherwise known as Tom Petty doesn't ever charge more than $60 a ticket. Yet he has publically stated that even with such low ticket prices, him and his band each take home millions. Take that, Fleetwood Mac!

PS: I'm sure my comrades would agree (you know who you are!): Fleetwood Mac should fire their PR people and put Edina in charge! :laugh:

[blodge]

Wow, some of you have gotten uncharitable in your assessment of Lindsey's truthfulness. I don't even think it's all that unusual for artsy types (whether commercially successful or not) to distance themselves from the business end of operations. It's not what interests them. They'd rather be writing their music or their literature or painting their art. All that other stuff is for the managers and the accountants.

As for his statement that he was unaware of ticket prices six months ago, I don't think that's surprising, either. When do you think was the last time Lindsey Buckingham shelled out from his own wallet to see a concert? I wouldn't be surprised if it was in a year with the first three numbers of 197. He probably knows better now, but six months ago?

Intentionally or unintentionally, these people live different lives than us. It doesn't necessarily make them elitist. (That would come from them believing they are better than us, instead of more fortunate.)

I don't like shelling out all that money, either. But I'll do it as a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

As for Stevie's desire for the finer things, my mother loves the finer things. I found out why when I was in high school. She grew up in the depression and went to school every day in the same dress. The other kids made fun of her. When she got older and actually had the money, it meant a lot to her to be able to buy nice dresses and things. I saw my mom in a whole new light, and it wasn't that she was shallow and materialistic. Perhaps after having struggled to get by as a waitress while hoping to make it as a musician, Stevie yearned for something better. Now she has the means. Anyone want to deny her some creature comforts?

[dissention]

Originally posted by blodge
Wow, some of you have gotten uncharitable in your assessment of Lindsey's truthfulness. I don't even think it's all that unusual for artsy types (whether commercially successful or not) to distance themselves from the business end of operations. It's not what interests them. They'd rather be writing their music or their literature or painting their art. All that other stuff is for the managers and the accountants.

As for his statement that he was unaware of ticket prices six months ago, I don't think that's surprising, either. When do you think was the last time Lindsey Buckingham shelled out from his own wallet to see a concert? I wouldn't be surprised if it was in a year with the first three numbers of 197. He probably knows better now, but six months ago?

Intentionally or unintentionally, these people live different lives than us. It doesn't necessarily make them elitist. (That would come from them believing they are better than us, instead of more fortunate.)

I don't like shelling out all that money, either. But I'll do it as a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

As for Stevie's desire for the finer things, my mother loves the finer things. I found out why when I was in high school. She grew up in the depression and went to school every day in the same dress. The other kids made fun of her. When she got older and actually had the money, it meant a lot to her to be able to buy nice dresses and things. I saw my mom in a whole new light, and it wasn't that she was shallow and materialistic. Perhaps after having struggled to get by as a waitress while hoping to make it as a musician, Stevie yearned for something better. Now she has the means. Anyone want to deny her some creature comforts?

Being ignorant to ticket prices and the price that is put on your music is just that: ignorance. It is simply ludicrous to think that these people know nothing about the prices on their music. It's a ridiculous statement. Personally, I don't buy the "artsy" argument. Artsy types know the price put on their products just the same as we do, trust me. When they say they don't, they are purposefully playing out the mystique of being an artist. Plus, you can't make your money off your product without knowing how much the product is.

Lindsey was caught contradicting himself and tried to spin his way out of it. Plain and simple.

And they make the impression that they are superior to us; no one assumes that. $1,200 for a meet and greet? Over a hundred for tickets? The whole JT and fan club fiasco? C'mon! Maybe they don't necessarily think that they're better than us, but they obviously think they're hot **** to be able to command such high prices.

The real question is: why is it so much more expensive for FM to tour than it is for other bands? Does it have anything to do with all the little perks they demand while touring? Without demanding such high prices, would they have such perks? No. They know how much money to charge and then some. They've been in this business long enough to know these things. Ignorance as an excuse doesn't work.

What all of this makes me wonder is what is WTWCT REALLY about? I think it's just a bitter song about the "unjust" treatment Lindsey got from WB for an album he was never going to release anyway. It has nothing to do with greed or the state of the world; it's all about Lindsey's unfair treatment.

What goes around comes around.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Tusk57
Anway, it's none of our business when you get down to it. They are a great band and don't come around that often, so I don't mind shelling out the big bucks to see them in action.

That's about the most senseless -- and I'm trying to be polite here -- assessment I've read on these boards about ticket prices. How do you figure it's none of our business? Are we not the consumers?

[Tusk57]

Carne, I meant by saying it's none of our business not about how high one has to pay to get a ticket (of course you should), but about how they spend the money they get from you buying said ticket! Or, for that matter, if they "really need" all that money, since they are rich already. I'm tired of people whining about other people who are better off then they are. I suggest they get off their butts and go make a pile of cash themselves which usually means get a skill that is marketable---such as playing one mean guitar!!!

[strandinthewind]

Wow - this thread certainly has become interesting!!!!!!

I have said before and will always say - the correct price for anything that is non-essential to human life is what the market is willing to pay. In this case, the "market" for a FM concert is most of us fans and "we" apparently are willing to pay the asked price because the concerts on this tour are either sold out or close to it. In fact, most statistical models would indicate they could have charged 20% more, which is $150, for the same seats and left the other lesser priced seats the same price and gotten the same result in the end. So, FM clearly has not gotten the price of the tickets too expensive from a solely economic point of view.

A couple of people have argued that this is too greedy and have asserted a moral argument here. I, however, am unsure there is a significant moral point of view here (e.g. no one will starve, die, etc., if they do not see FM in concert). Leaving my apparent love for the band and my incessant concert going ( :laugh: ) aside, FM clearly is an optional product in that not being able to see them live is not like being unable to afford food, water, etc. So, it is sort of like not being able to buy a $500 Versace belt when you cannot afford to see FM live. Is Versace immoral for charging $500 for a belt? I say no, they are not. In fact, I think if someone wants to pay $500 for a belt, so be it, despite my personal views on the subject. Remember, freedom of choice must work both ways to work at all (i.e. who am I to tell anyone how to spend their disposable income? ). Moreover, companies like Versace, Prada, etc., obviously have found a huge market that is more than willing and apparently able to pay for their non-essential services. Are they immoral for this? I say no. Are they greedy? I again say no because people are willingly paying for their craft, which can also be defined as art, even though I amy not like some of it, etc. Like FM, no one is forcing anyone to buy their non-essential product.

Having said that, does it suck if you cannot afford a $500 Versace belt and really, really want one. Yes, it does. Moreover, at what level does the greed stop? I am sure there are some people who would say FM is being greedy at $60 at ticket. Therein lies the rub.

P.S. I LOVE economic arguments, perhaps because in the end there usually is no one correct answer :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Tusk57
Carne, I meant by saying it's none of our business not about how high one has to pay to get a ticket (of course you should), but about how they spend the money they get from you buying said ticket!

OK, fair enough. I don't give a crap what they do with their money. But I do care how much ticket prices are, and I find it somewhat disingenuous for a band member to claim he/she doesn't know, or has nothing to do with ticket prices.

I agree with Sugar that this band doesn't really give a crap about the fans. Plain and simple.

[dissention]

Originally posted by CarneVaca

I agree with Sugar that this band doesn't really give a crap about the fans. Plain and simple.

Now someone is finally saying something sensible.

Also, it isn't so much that they're charging so much, it's the manner in which they are doing it. Look at Tom Petty and then look at Fleetwood Mac. Who's in it for the money and who's in it for having a good time and pleasing fans and loving music? We all know what Fleetwood Mac is in it for. Like Stevie so eloquently put it:

"THIS ISN'T ABOUT ART, IT'S ABOUT FINANCES." :nod:

[Tusk57]

If they are only in it for the money, than how do you explain those charity concerts Stevie gives in Phoenix every year? And even Lindsey plays in them from time to time. I know they can't rival Mother Theresa but cut them some slack, please!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
. . . Like Stevie so eloquently put it:

"THIS ISN'T ABOUT ART, IT'S ABOUT FINANCES." :nod:

I still think there is far more to that line than VH-1 showed. I think she was mimicing someone based on her delivery and body actions when she said it. She could also be talking about anything from the current plot of All of My Children to her arguing not to sing Dreams in favor of another song on tour. Until we see the whole segment, we will never really know.

Assuming she meant that she is in it only for the money, I say more power to her for having the nads to say it. :cool:

[Les]

Originally posted by blodge
Wow, some of you have gotten uncharitable in your assessment of Lindsey's truthfulness.

I tend to agree with you.

There is no hypocrisy between what he wrote in WTWCT and the ticket prices.

Lindsey said: "I understand what you're saying about the equation between ticket prices and the use of the word 'greed,' and, yes, what we're doing is part of the corporate machinery, but I would question whether there is really a contradiction there. We are part of a large-scale band that cannot pretend it is anything other than that.

He frankly admitted it, which is why he said there isn't a contradiction in what he sang and what the tickets cost. He copped to it. Fleetwood Mac as a business is very much a part of the corporate world.

As for whether or not he really knows what ticket prices are like...I can easily believe he doesn't. I can also easily believe that he could know if he wanted to, but chooses to keep a distance from those issues. This is a guy who has continually discussed his extreme distaste for "the machinery" of being in a mainstream band for going on 25 years. He's rarely, if ever, enjoyed anything about the business end of the music business. His career is marked largely (though not entirely) by artistic choices that were not the most brilliant business choices because he tends to marry himself to the art and divorce himself from the rest. His answer, while certainly not the most inspiring thing he could have said, and not the smartest way to conduct "business", is, I think, at least honest.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Les
. . . As for whether or not he really knows what ticket prices are like...I can easily believe he doesn't. I can also easily believe that he could know if he wanted to, but chooses to keep a distance from those issues. This is a guy who has continually discussed his extreme distaste for "the machinery" of being in a mainstream band for going on 25 years. He's rarely, if ever, enjoyed anything about the business end of the music business. His career is marked largely (though not entirely) by artistic choices that were not the most brilliant business choices because he tends to marry himself to the art and divorce himself from the rest. His answer, while certainly not the most inspiring thing he could have said, and not the smartest way to conduct "business", is, I think, at least honest.

Although I see your point about LB not knowing about the actual price of the tickets, etc., I still think he must have had some clue given the vast production that he admitted this venture is.

However, LB's own comments contradict him having no interest in the accounting side of it all. He is the one that said more than once that doing The Dance tour certainly would give a boost in interest and therefore help the commercial marketability of his then upcoming solo project. Remember, as great as that record was, LB lost money on OOTC and the subsequent tour. He also said he offered to put up the money to make SYW a double CD. Finally, I am sure his manager had to get approval from him regarding his per concert fee before agreeing to it. So, I think he clearly knows a lot about the commercial aspects especially when he is with FM (as opposed to solo) and there are other fish and their shark managers in the sea with him and his own shark(s) :laugh:

I do think, however, they are all great artists that realize that to compete, they have to be commercially viable - I do not slam them for this in the slightest as it is the way of the world :laugh:

[Les]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
However, I have to say LB's own comments contradict him having no interest int he accounting saide of it all. He is the one that said more than once that doing The Dance tour certainly would give a boost in interest and therefore help the commercial marketability of his then upcoming solo project. He also said he offerered to put up the money to make SYW a double CD. Finally, I am sure his manager had to get approval from him regarding his per concert fee before agreeing to it. So, I think he clearly knows a lot about the commercial aspects especially when he is with FM and there are other fish and their shark managers in the sea with him and his own shark :laugh:

I'm not saying he has no sense at all. ;) Of course he's aware that he's got a much higher profile in FM than on his own.

But I'm not sure how his offering to absorb any losses for making SYW a double CD supports your argument. If anything, to me, that indicates again that he was thinking with his heart about the music he wanted to put out, not about what the "smart business move" was to make. Single CDs do sell better than doubles and his offering to personally absorb any losses says he was willing to lose money. Is that a smart business move? ;) In relation to the decision to cut the album from 2 CDs to 1, Mick said (paraphrasing), "Lindsey is focused on the art and I understand that too, but at some point, I can be at least practical." This says to me that he thinks Lindsey is impractical and focused on the art too much in situations where he believes business decisions need to be made.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Les
I'm not saying he has no sense at all. ;) Of course he's aware that he's got a much higher profile in FM than on his own.

But I'm not sure how his offering to absorb any losses for making SYW a double CD supports your argument. If anything, to me, that indicates again that he was thinking with his heart about the music he wanted to put out, not about what the "smart business move" was to make. Single CDs do sell better than doubles and his offering to personally absorb any losses says he was willing to lose money. Is that a smart business move? ;) In relation to the decision to cut the album from 2 CDs to 1, Mick said (paraphrasing), "Lindsey is focused on the art and I understand that too, but at some point, I can be at least practical." This says to me that he thinks Lindsey is impractical and focused on the art too much in situations where he believes business decisions need to be made.

:laugh:

I am not saying LB is smart in business. In fact, there is a bunch of evidence is to the contrary :laugh: As you correctly noted, LB seems on most levels to care about the music, etc. In fact, I think both LB and SN care very much about the artistic value of their music. I was just addressing your argument that LB is removed from the business aspect and concentrates mostly on the art. I think SN and LB are very aware of the business aspects of making music, which includes ticket prices. In fact, I praise them for being able to work in this scheme.

I just think the reporter in the article hit the nail on the head when he said, LB, I find it strange that you complain in the song about record company's being greedy and then you charge $125 for most of the tickets to your concerts. I think the implication was LB and FM are perceived as greedy and hypocritical because they are living like royalty on the backs of their fans and then have the gall to call other's greedy when it suits them. I guess the implication is there is a distaste for FM to live in such a way. I do not share that distaste because, as I mentioned earlier, if people are willing to pay for it - more power to them. Moreover, all musicians make money off of their fans and, as I mentioned earier, it is somewhat impossible to have everyone agree on where to draw the line over which they must cross to be perceived by everyone as not being greedy.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Tusk57
If they are only in it for the money, than how do you explain those charity concerts Stevie gives in Phoenix every year? And even Lindsey plays in them from time to time. I know they can't rival Mother Theresa but cut them some slack, please!

I wasn't referring to Stevie necessarily, I was referring to the band as a whole. Stevie is the most in-tune with the fans and she knows the business because, unlike the others, she didn't stop being a part of it after The Dance. She knows prices. And I'm sure that Lindsey loves being a part of fundraising for such a good cause; that's not disputed. But that doesn't disguise everything else like Jonathan Todd, the fan club, ticket prices, and willingness to sell-out.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I still think there is far more to that line than VH-1 showed. I think she was mimicing someone based on her delivery and body actions when she said it. She could also be talking about anything from the current plot of All of My Children to her arguing not to sing Dreams in favor of another song on tour. Until we see the whole segment, we will never really know.

Assuming she meant that she is in it only for the money, I say more power to her for having the nads to say it. :cool:

I taped the show and after watching, rewound that part and watched it again. She was as serious as serious can be and the look on her face looked to be anger. As infuriating as Erica Kane can be, I doubt it was about AMC or her relationship with Lindsey or even a particular song. :laugh: But Stevie hit the nail on the head, it is about finances, not art. JT and the fan club isn't art, it's an embarassment.

Anyways, she watches GH! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
. . .. Anyways, she watches GH! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

LMAO - I could not remember which one she said she watched when she was on Rosie :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I guess the implication is there is a distaste for FM to live in such a way. I do not share that distaste because, as I mentioned

I don't think the reporter took it that far. The intent was clearly to point out that Lindsey was railing against something that he appears to be participating in. To wit, why lambast the industry when you're jumping right into bed with it to charge tickets prices on the high side?

Then the reporter really presses, asking him why he's chosen to not involve himself in pricing. Again, perfectly legitimate question. Listen, buddy, you're in a position to do something about it, so why are you criticizing in one breath and in the next saying that you don't involve yourself in these matters?

I don't think the reporter was making a comment on Lindsey's or the other members' lifestyles.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by trackaghost
. . . Designer labels are elitist, how disappointing that you equate them with music. People are willing to pay for designer labels, so that justifies the price? well maybe but I always like to think artists want their music to be for everyone and not just for those who can afford it, where the point about designer clothes is that they are to make a statement almost that you can afford it!



While I agree it is not a perfect one, it was just one of many analogies. Another one would be that no new car cost under $10,000 that I can think of. In fact, I think the average price of a new car is about $20,000, which is a huge amount of money to alot if not the majority of people. The car companies charge these prices because that is what the market is willing to pay even if they know that a certain percentage of the population cannot afford the $200 to $300 monthly payment associated with this lower $10,000 price. There are many more examples. In any event, I was just trying to say FM is getting the price they are asking and as long as they do, they will keep asking it.

Also, even though I am "guilty" of not letting it get in my concert going way, I agree the prices are too high. I think FM should do something like a few free concerts for fans that cannot afford a ticket, etc. But, we shall see if that ever happens :cool:

In any event, I agree with you that "I'm an idealist but I kinda want my singers, my artists, my idols, to be passionate about what they are doing, and want to do it regardless of how much they are being paid." It is just that I know all of FM is on that private 727, they all stay in suites at the best hotels, they all have the best things money can buy while on tour, etc. So, I have concluded that this reality has bludgeoned (sp?) me enough that when stars such as FM want all of the creature comforts mentioned - I have to pay for it if I want them to continue :laugh:

[blodge]

Dissention,

I take it that you believe FM members to be micromanagers who made the decision to float meet and greets at outrageous prices, what price the album should go for, what price the tickets will go for, perhaps what merchandise will be offered, etc. Maybe you believe everything JT has done was done with their explicit approval.

How the heck did they ever get the time to put the album out and rehearse for the concerts?

I'm not saying they're totally divorced from this. LB had to know this was an expensive proposition to put this album out and take this band on tour. Does that mean he knew top seats should go for $140 or $150?

Even if they knew down to the penny how much everything was going to cost and how much they were going to charge, etc., you suggest that they obviously thought they were hot because they were willing to charge so much ... were they wrong? Are they not one of the great bands of all time?

FYI, here in Phoenix, we've had several bands come through here charging that kind of money. The Eagles are up after FM. I believe the top seats for the Rolling Stones and Paul McCartney were even more money. I believe the Dixie Chicks were somewhat up there, too. Hell, I don't even think it was cheap to go see Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguilera, and I don't think anyone's going to remember them as two of music's great acts ... their fans today may well be embarrassed tomorrow that they were ever into those two.

I don't think any of us know for sure what LB or anyone from FM know about the business side of the operation. Maybe details. Maybe generalities. Maybe they keep themselves in the dark on purpose (which is possible.) We're all just flapping our gums (or exercising our fingers, in any case) when we talk/write about this.

I do know, as a journalist, that stars are sometimes insulated from the real world. It's unfortunate that this is so. Still, if they're going to get what the market bears for their talent, well most everyone here does on some scale or another. It doesn't necessarily make them greedy. It doesn't necessarily make them elitist. It probably puts them in danger of becoming either or both, like many stars are. But you'll have to show me more than just your conjecture that they had to know about prices, JT's shenanigans, etc., for me to believe that is absolutely so.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by dissention



What all of this makes me wonder is what is WTWCT REALLY about? I think it's just a bitter song about the "unjust" treatment Lindsey got from WB for an album he was never going to release anyway. It has nothing to do with greed or the state of the world; it's all about Lindsey's unfair treatment.



ITA - in fact, I said something similar last night to Tiffany. I think LB DOES care about the music more than the money THEORETICALLY, but he is also so out-of-touch with what it's like to not have so much money that when he thinks about greed, his only context it "Greedy people kept me from releasing my solo album." He doesn't apply it to the rest of us, or perhaps he'd be less blase about the difference between $40 and $140.

I ADORE LB, and had SUCH an awesome time last night, and considered my money well-spent... and he was interacting with the fans and signing autographs and being cool, so I wouldn't say he doesn't care about the fans. I will say, however, that it seems Lindsey does not think beyond himself when it comes to money matters - hence WTWCT. "What's the world coming to when I can't get my album out?" lol As for the people who don't make albums and have other money problems - those people are off of LB's radar.

[stephmoore]

Originally posted by trackaghost
I find it quite distressing really that some of you feel its justifiable for FM to rip us all with their ticket prices. .....
Plus Petty and Pearl Jam and the like seem to remember the days before they were rock stars, trying to afford tickets to see their favourite bands, something FM appear to have erased from their memories! (Check out Petty's song Money Becomes King.)

Can I get an AMEN?!!

I haven't posted to the Ledge in a while, because it seemed like I was alone in my bitterness about the outrageous ticket prices and the fraud being perpetrated on long-time fans via JT's "illustrious" fan club. So I'm heartened to read that someone else out there feels like I do.

And I'm sorry, but I was just infuriated at Tusk57's comment about "get out there, get yourself a skill and make yourself a pile of money." I work 60 hours a week, buddy. I have a college degree in technical communication. I *have* skills. But they involve helping people to learn, which this society doesn't value worth a tinker's damn.

It's pretty apparent that to "make a pile of money" in this screwed-up, disfunctional society, I'd have to:
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt NBA star, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt CEO, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt rock/rap/pop star.

I guess I'm just angry and disappointed to find out that people whom I thought were amazing and wonderful musicians are putting themselves squarely into category 3. Screw over the fans? No problem. Charge exorbitant ticket prices? Whatever it takes to guarantee me that $200,000 per show (or whatever it was).

It definitely brings to mind Marie's Antoinette's famous line about "Let them eat cake!" Marie lost her head, literally, over that one.....

If I ran into the band in the bar, I sure as hell wouldn't be buying them drinks. With the money they're raking in, they can buy their own damned alcohol. I'd more likely be getting myself thrown out of the bar because of what I'd say to them.

Hell hath no fury like a fan scorned (or at least, it shouldn't, if most fans weren't such sheep!)

Bitter? Who, me? Whatever makes you think that?
:rolleyes:

[John Run]

I make a enough money to afford these ticket prices. I guess I am an elitist....I really enjoyed the show...I guess I am an elitist....I have been to shows that cost less money and did not like them....I guess I am a snob.....I have been to shows that cost more money and did not like them....I guess I am not cultured enough to appreciate art.....

If I like it I pay for it....get over it people. They charge a price that the demand can justify. Ticket sales have proven they were accurate in assuming the demand was high enough to warrant such pricing. Ahhh...capitalism. I understand economics....I am an elitist...

[Sugar]

Being a movie star is pretty cool, but being a rock star is just better. Especially a lady rock star. I'm really grateful for it.

SN: So am I. Every day. And that's something I don't think goes away. It's like, I totally appreciate being able to buy, say, this thousand-dollar cashmere blanket. I do. Because if I couldn't, I would hate the fact that I would have to go back to real, regular blankets.

CL: At Penney's.

SN: At Penney's. [Laughing] And I never wanted to go to Penney's even when I was a little girl.

CL: I didn't want to go to Penney's, either. I knew, when I was in there, I knew I shouldn't be in there.

SN: I am not in the right store, Mom.

CL: There's something wrong. This is wrong.

SN: Take me to the good store.

This is the part of the interview that bugs me. I realize that this is not a popular opinion, (so I won't say as much as I could) but I think she sounds like such a spoiled brat!

IF Lindsey doesn't know about ticket prices, then it is because he chooses not to. Period. And if you don't have a problem with it because you love this band, then so be it. But let's not dress it up as "he's an artist" or "it's just the way it is" because there are examples (already stated) who CHOOSE not to do business this way.

[dissention]

Originally posted by stephmoore
Can I get an AMEN?!!

I haven't posted to the Ledge in a while, because it seemed like I was alone in my bitterness about the outrageous ticket prices and the fraud being perpetrated on long-time fans via JT's "illustrious" fan club. So I'm heartened to read that someone else out there feels like I do.

And I'm sorry, but I was just infuriated at Tusk57's comment about "get out there, get yourself a skill and make yourself a pile of money." I work 60 hours a week, buddy. I have a college degree in technical communication. I *have* skills. But they involve helping people to learn, which this society doesn't value worth a tinker's damn.

It's pretty apparent that to "make a pile of money" in this screwed-up, disfunctional society, I'd have to:
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt NBA star, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt CEO, or
-- Be a worthless, ethically/morally bankrupt rock/rap/pop star.

I guess I'm just angry and disappointed to find out that people whom I thought were amazing and wonderful musicians are putting themselves squarely into category 3. Screw over the fans? No problem. Charge exorbitant ticket prices? Whatever it takes to guarantee me that $200,000 per show (or whatever it was).

It definitely brings to mind Marie's Antoinette's famous line about "Let them eat cake!" Marie lost her head, literally, over that one.....

If I ran into the band in the bar, I sure as hell wouldn't be buying them drinks. With the money they're raking in, they can buy their own damned alcohol. I'd more likely be getting myself thrown out of the bar because of what I'd say to them.

Hell hath no fury like a fan scorned (or at least, it shouldn't, if most fans weren't such sheep!)

Bitter? Who, me? Whatever makes you think that?
:rolleyes:

CAN I GET AN AMEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Everything you said, DITTO!

It's the people who actually work for a living that should be rolling in dough, not pampered celebrities. If I was a celebrity, lemme tell ya, I don't know how I'd be able to look at myself in the mirror knowing that I'm getting millions a year and a teacher or social worker is only getting paid $25 grand a year. I would feel awful and then use my money to benefit charities and disadvantaged people.

I'm not saying that FM doesn't do that, because honestly, I have no idea. But they should, dammit. Or else they ARE greedy.

blodge, I do think it's FM who chooses to flaunt meet and greets at outrageous prices and FM who choose to screw fans with fan club memberships. After all, all these things are in their name, it is their responsibility to look after them. If they are too busy to do so, don't start any of these things. Don't hire crooks to operate your shady businesses. It is NOT cool to endorse programs that cheat working-class people out of their hard-earned pay, ESPECIALLY if it's in your name and you don't want to bother with checking out how your name and likeness is being used.

John Run, your post about being an elitist is so off-topic and is in no way related to this discussion. No one EVER said if you attend a concert for $125 you're an elitist. Don't base things off of misconceptions.

I'm sorry if no one likes my opinion, but dammit, this is a band I've loved for years and stood by even when the music wasn't the greatest. This is a band that has helped me throughout my life emotionally and for that I'm eternally grateful. But, I am not grateful enough to allow them to screw me over just because I love them. They are going from being one of the most beloved band of mine to becoming the most despicable becaus eof their shady business and disregard for the people who put them where they are. They're taking us for granted.

[wondergirl9847]

Stevie and Lindsey BOTH grew up with a "silver spoon" in their mouths. They had parents who gave them EVERYTHING they wanted basically...they were each raised in, what sounds like to me the "Cleaver" family. LOL Perfect parents who listen, understand, take care of you, respect you and your choices, etc. So, yeah, they are both spoiled brats, and although they both LOVE music with all their heart, body and soul, they love being pampered (as would I!!!) and are used to the rock star way of life.

Then, again, I can't help but think of them struggling to eat during the BN days....hmmmm.....don't they REMEMBER what it's like to STRUGGLE....it's been too long, I guess....they've blocked it out. :rolleyes: LOL

I still love em....:)

[Sugar]

We all still love them. That's what makes it so disappointing

[strandinthewind]

Well now you people have me a thinkin' :laugh:

Does anyone know the name of the concert promoter and if they are a public company. Mor elikely than not, they are related to Clear Channel. If they are, then all we need to find out is what state they are in and request a copy of their financial info. they have to publish by law. Maybe this info. is available trhough AOL/TimeWarner. Wouldn't that make for some good reading :laugh: Almost like the demands for the green rooms we saw earlier this year on Ebay :cool:

Also, let's say they sell 10,000 seats per show at $100 per seat - I think this is a good enough average for us to use here. That is $1,000,000 per show in gross revenue. Does anyone know how much the people other than SN and LB get. If we figure out those costs, then we can figure out what SN and LB get per show.

We have ground transportation (at lease six 18 wheelers), roadies, the back up band, the set costs, the techies, the initial people who put up the production costs, the managers, the security, the hotels, the plane, etc. I can tell you the plane probably costs at lest $30,000 per show. Anyone else know any other costs? I think this could be interesting and, possibly fun, to figure out.

[GardenStateGirlie]

I am annoyed by celebrities in general. BUT, i'm more annoyed by the fact that people such as myself WILL GO OUT AND PAY as much as we do to see a concert, to go to a movie, to buy and album, etc. The average person in the United States of America ONLY MAKES ABOUT $35,000-$40,000 per year and the average American LIVES ABOVE THEIR MEANS. Does this make the band and celebrities in general a bunch of assholes or does this make all of us the assholes for allowing them to live as they do??

The reason bands like Fleetwood Mac, The Rolling Stones and The Eagles get away with such high ticket prices is because they are expecting their revenue to come from THE BABY BOOMER GENERATION--the CEO's, the doctors, the lawyers, etc. It's those who are older who can most likely afford their concerts. Of course, knowing all of you on here that are from that generation and knowing my own family, I know that not everyone who likes Fleetwood Mac is a doctor and a lawyer and a CEO.

I know Fleetwood Mac knows that their fanbase is much larger than that...I know they know not everyone can afford $125 on a ticket to see them jam for 2 hours. Those who operate the whole show don't take into account that there may be younger people who enjoy their music. Fleetwood Mac's target audience is not teenagers and young adults such as myself, it's the same people that liked their music in the 70s who have salaried jobs and make enough per year to afford the concert.

I know a lot of us (especially myself) knocked Fleetwood Mac for playing smaller venues in smaller cities but to be honest with you, looking at it now, this to me shows that Fleetwood Mac has never forgotten the people who put them where they are today. They may or may not be involved in this whole fanclub fiasco..I dunno...I tend to think they were kept away from it all because they rely on people to do everything for them but that's my opinion. Does that make them bad people? I don't know that it makes them bad people but it certainly would mean they are sheltered.

Oh, and Jason---they're being promoted by Concerts West....I have a feeling this is a relation of Clear Channel

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie

Oh, and Jason---they're being promoted by Concerts West....I have a feeling this is a relation of Clear Channel

Irving Azoff and Phillip Anschutz (Qwest & railroad magnate) are involved with Concerts West. For those of you who don't know, Irving manages The Eagles and used to manage Stevie. I think he may also manage Christina Aguilera. Clear Channel is in no way connected to Concerts West. I believe CW was started by Jerry Weintraub. In fact, the rumor is that Concerts West is going to buy the ailing House of Blues concert division and (thank God) make a run at Clear Channel. Meanwhile, the concert industry locally is so dismal that House Of Blues and Clear Channel are co-producing shows together so they can make a few bucks and not drive ticket prices through the roof bidding against each other for shows. All the over priced ticket bs started with The Eagles on the Hell Freezes Over Tour when they raised the price of tickets to "what the market would bear." Reunion tours were a novelty then and people were willing to pay astronomical prices to see their favorite band for what was speculated to be the "last time."

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Irving Azoff and Phillip Anschutz (Qwest & railroad magnate) are involved with Concerts West. For those of you who don't know, Irving manages The Eagles and used to manage Stevie. I think he may also manage Christina Aguilera. Clear Channel is in no way connected to Concerts West. I believe CW was started by Jerry Weintraub. In fact, the rumor is that Concerts West is going to buy the ailing House of Blues concert division and (thank God) make a run at Clear Channel. Meanwhile, the concert industry locally is so dismal that House Of Blues and Clear Channel are co-producing shows together so they can make a few bucks and not drive ticket prices through the roof bidding against each other for shows. All the over priced ticket bs started with The Eagles on the Hell Freezes Over Tour when they raised the price of tickets to "what the market would bear." Reunion tours were a novelty then and people were willing to pay astronomical prices to see their favorite band for what was speculated to be the "last time."

Clear Channel is ridiculous. I remember last year there was a report on either 20/20 or Dateline (one of those news programs)that spoke about how concert goers and artists were getting screwed because of them...I believe they interviewed Billy Joel and Dave Matthews (who felt concert prices were ridiculous). And yea, you're absolutely right...the Eagles started that trend and I bet they keep touring and making albums too...lol....ahh...i'm going into the wrong biz :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Sugar
Being a movie star is pretty cool, but being a rock star is just better. Especially a lady rock star. I'm really grateful for it.

SN: So am I. Every day. And that's something I don't think goes away. It's like, I totally appreciate being able to buy, say, this thousand-dollar cashmere blanket. I do. Because if I couldn't, I would hate the fact that I would have to go back to real, regular blankets.

CL: At Penney's.

SN: At Penney's. [Laughing] And I never wanted to go to Penney's even when I was a little girl.

CL: I didn't want to go to Penney's, either. I knew, when I was in there, I knew I shouldn't be in there.

SN: I am not in the right store, Mom.

CL: There's something wrong. This is wrong.

SN: Take me to the good store.



That Courtney Love is a bad influence. Dreadful.:distress:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie
Clear Channel is ridiculous. I remember last year there was a report on either 20/20 or Dateline (one of those news programs)that spoke about how concert goers and artists were getting screwed because of them...I believe they interviewed Billy Joel and Dave Matthews (who felt concert prices were ridiculous). And yea, you're absolutely right...the Eagles started that trend and I bet they keep touring and making albums too...lol....ahh...i'm going into the wrong biz :laugh:

No, you're not. I know alot of people in that industry who are making what everyone else makes. I know we've got some radio people on this board. I think they'd be the first to tell you they ain't gettin' rich. Those people do it for the love of the gig. What's really frightening is CC has been lobbying to change the laws about how many television stations a company can own. I was following that for a while and lost track of the outcome. I'm not sure if it's even been decided yet. Their pockets are very deep and the scope of their influence is practically limitless. Hopefully this is something that doesn't come to pass.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
No, you're not. I know alot of people in that industry who are making what everyone else makes. I know we've got some radio people on this board. I think they'd be the first to tell you they ain't gettin' rich. Those people do it for the love of the gig. What's really frightening is CC has been lobbying to change the laws about how many television stations a company can own. I was following that for a while and lost track of the outcome. I'm not sure if it's even been decided yet. Their pockets are very deep and the scope of their influence is practically limitless. Hopefully this is something that doesn't come to pass.

I'm not interested in making a fortune but I hope to be well-established and respected enough to make some changes in an industry that is going to hell in a handbasket. You can stick any literate attractive moron in a chair and tell them to read off of a teleprompter. I'm not all about that and the people I know aren't either. I think Murrow isn't the only journalist turning over in his grave....I think Jessica Savitch would be kind of shocked at the current state of the media.

Anyway, do you or does anyone else know how many companies CC is affiliated with or owns?? I bet you there are a lot we probably don't even know about. I'm curious.

"Got the bubble-headed bleach blonde Comes on at five She can tell you bout' the plane crash with a gleam in her eye It's interesting when people die Give us dirty laundry"-Don Henley (couldn't resist...love this song..so very true)

[CarneVaca]

Stephmoore, Dissention and Trackaghost, careful, you're beginning to sound like socialists. Not that there's anything wrong with that! ;)

I think some of you have alluded to what I consider to be one of our greatest social ills: It's this acquiescence that has become such a large part of American life (and elsewhere more and more). They want to charge $150 per ticket? If they can, why not? That's short-sighted. I'd be willing to bet that if the rate of job losses continues as it is now in this country, soon enough a lot of rock acts will start canceling concerts. This could happen to Fleetwood Mac too. I'm sure they won't break even on this tour until they are at least halfway through. The reason they added secondary markets for the tour so soon isn't because they care about fans outside major metro areas. It's because someone made a calculation that these cheaper secondary markets would still bring enough fans to still make it worthwhile to play there. So why not load up the tour while it's still selling?

This greed we see in the music business is directly related to the whatever-it-takes greed that has gripped the corporate world, and to a large extent, the politicians it controls. And just as in politics and in the workplace, more and more people throw up their hands and say, What can I do? They're cutting my benefits, but I'm still lucky to have a job. The two guys running for office are both scum, but I'll vote for the less scummy. My favorite band is ripping me off, but what can I do? It's either that or I don't get to see them. Guess what? There are alternatives. Maybe there's a third or fourth guy to vote for that no one is talking about. Don't go to the show. It's a little tougher in the workplace because, in this ****ty economy, they really have you by the, uh, wallet. But if you can get out of a bad situation, do it.

We are not a helpless people. It's just been programmed into our consciousness that we are. And we have started to believe it. While the economy was good, it wasn't as much of a worry. But if things continue on this downward trend, I wonder how many people who continue to justify a system that is no longer working will still do so if they lose their jobs and find very few prospects out there.

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by Keith
the steep ticket prices has kept me in check.. i've been to only the D.C. show. It was a $144 well spent, because my favorite band made me feel young again.. I'm still enjoying the boots from the tour... it's so good to know that Fleetwood Mac still has the live magic... but $125 a ticket is steep. I'm sure it's expensive to tour.. but then our band loves to spend a lot of $$$ to be as comfortable as possible on tour.. if my $144 goes to help make Stevie more comfy in an expensive hotel.. then be it.. she is still out there on tour making beautiful music in her high top reaboks.... I do hope they return to the East Coast, as I would love to hear them again..

i heard 'Say You Will' on 94.7 yesterday.. D.C.'s classic rock station.. they played a rock block from FM - Oh Well, Rhiannon, Say You Will (album version), and Don't Stop.. it was good to hear the new one on the radio.. sounded classic! :-)

Yeah, and let's all remember that going to a concert is a luxury not a necessity.

[Tusk57]

Trackaghost, you really stepped in it when you stated something to the effect.....who has the right to make more money because of his talent then other hard working people. What?!!! Just because someone is hard working doesn't automatically translate into being wealthy. A ditch digger I'm sure works his butt off, while a rock star has the good life. Some teachers and social workers work like crazy with much stress, etc., but nobody put a gun to their head to choose that field. They knew what it paid before they became one. If you want to be rich, go into a field where the money is. If you don't, good for you....I'm happy for you, just quit whining about it. This is a capitalist society last time I checked! :)

[strandinthewind]

Thanks y'all for the info. about the concert promoter. BTW - I, too, hate Clear Channel for a variety of reasons, the least of which is I think they have the capability to become a semi-official quasi state run propoganda machine for whatever political party is at the helm. That scares me and reminds me of Peronism (Evita's dictator and mercenary husband for those who do not know! :laugh: ).

Also, I tried to look up how their and others' concerts have been selling, but the only site I found that possibly has such info. was one called soundscan. I think people on this board have referred to soundscan before. If they are reading this and, unlike me, have a password, etc., I would be greatly appreciated if they could supply some info. :)

Again, I think it would be kinds cool to try and figure this out. But - I am a bit of a geek that way :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by cliffdweller
Yeah, and let's all remember that going to a concert is a luxury not a necessity.

Well said - that was the point I was trying to make with the new car and $500 Versace belt analogies.

Interestingly, I heard this morning the Stones are doing a free concert or concerts in Toronto to help alleviate the economic pain caused by the SARS scare. Wouldn't it be cool for FM to do the same for the apparently financially unable in America.

Also, I thought of one thing we have not considered. There are tickets that are as low as $47.50 to the FM concerts. Granted, they are not on the floor or in the first balcony. But, at least you would get to go for around $50, which I think is far more reasonable and affordable than $125. So, look at us, myself included, only considering the $125 seats - What was that about a $500 Versace belt as opposed to a cheaper one that does the same thing :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by trackaghost
I give up I really do! I am feeling really disillusioned by all of this. Yes I know, whine, whine whine. Maybe I should just shut up and accept my lot, because this of course is how positive changes are made that improve people's lives, by sitting back and saying nothing.

I, for one, have enjoyed your comments even though I may not have agreed 100% with all of them. I hope you'll keep posting if not here then in other threads :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

While I agree with you all about the $125 tickets being too much (even though I have paid it three times now :laugh: ), I am just curious, do you still feel screwed by the $50 tickets which were available in most venues? I mean if I can't afford to do something, I opt for the next best thing if I really want to do it. In this case, I would opt for the $50 tickets and be happy I could see them and feel happy they priced some of the tickets at a level I could afford. But that is just me - many may differ on this.

Note: I am not being hateful. I am just curious because $50 seems reasonable to me.

[jwd]

Also, I thought of one thing we have not considered. There are tickets that are as low as $47.50 to the FM concerts. Granted, they are not on the floor or in the first balcony. But, at least you would get to go for around $50, which I think is far more reasonable and affordable than $125.

Or they could take that $47.50 and go see The Dave Mathews band or Radiohead in concert and get really good seats. That's what a friend of mine from work and his wife are doing. The high ticket prices for Fleetwood Mac just didn't fit their budget. They are both hard working people with decent jobs, albeit not doctors or lawyers. Trying to raise two young chiildren is not cheap. Jenny is a fan of Fleetwood Mac from back in the day and was really looking forward to seeing them play when they came to town. It's just a shame that Fleetwood Mac doesn't know the value of a hard earned dollar and are cutting a portion of their fan base from seeing them on this tour. It's all about the music though and planting those seeds huh?! RIGHT!!


Do they serve cake on the lawn?! :laugh:


Joe

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
While I agree with you all about the $125 tickets being too much (even though I have paid it three times now :laugh: ), I am just curious, do you still feel screwed by the $50 tickets which were available in most venues? I mean if I can't afford to do something, I opt for the next best thing if I really want to do it. In this case, I would opt for the $50 tickets and be happy I could see them and feel happy they priced some of the tickets at a level I could afford. But that is just me - many may differ on this.

Note: I am not being hateful. I am just curious because $50 seems reasonable to me.

Strandy, darling, if you think $50 for nosebleeds to see FM is reasonable, WHAT'S THE WORLD COMING TO?! :laugh:

Yeah, I do feel screwed. Wanna know why? Because of the $125 ticket prices! People snap up the $50 seats so quickly because they want to see the concert but can't afford $125 for good seats. Therefore, there aren't any $50 seats left in the NOSEBLEEDS where I won't be able to distinguish the Gold Dust shawl from the Stand Back cape from Lindsey's damn chest hair. If they weren't charging such high prices (and anyone who feels that FM doesn't have a lot of say in dictating ticket prices is deluding themselves), you'd be able to see them.

Hell no, I wouldn't pay $50. I'd save it and see Heart, Pat Benatar, Lucinda Williams, Chris Isaak, Aimee Mann, The Pretenders, Sheryl Crow, Blondie, Neil Young, Dave Matthews, Annie Lennox, or the-god-otherwise-known-as-Tom Petty in the front row for that price!

[CarneVaca]

Now this thread is taking a silly turn. Come on, Strand, you feel screwed because you gotta pay $125 because you're too slow to get the $50 tickets? Well, that's another side of capitalism, isn't it? By the way, capitalism as we know it has failed. I wonder if it will take us as long to realize this as it took the Russians to figure out communism didn't work either. But I digress.

Look, I decided not to buy tickets for this tour for several reasons:

--The band struck me as being in this primarily for the money. Greed seemed to be at play here in a major way, and not just on the part of the label.

--I didn't really want to be surrounded by a bunch of crazy, sweating fans screaming their heads off. I wanna enjoy the music, I pop in the CD. Pluck that big crowd crap.

--Mrs. Carne and I are planning a major trip halfway around the world, which will be costly but necessary.

But ultimately, I could have afforded tickets. I chose not to do it. Why put more money into the pockets of people who have shown very little regard for those who made their success possible? Pluck 'em!

You know something? I don't buy from Amazon anymore. Sure, I like the convenience and the prices. But after they screwed up two very important orders and treated it with shrugs, I told them to go to hell.

Sometimes you must stand on principle.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Now this thread is taking a silly turn. Come on, Strand, you feel screwed because you gotta pay $125 because you're too slow to get the $50 tickets?

Although I have said a lot, I am not sure I ever said that :laugh:
Although I think $125 is huge, I have willingly paid it and have not looked back. I also did not look at the cheaper seats because I like to sit in certain sections (usually in the first riser on the immediate side of stage left or right or I am often on the handicap section with a friend in a scooter). Fortunately, I can do this. However, I am well aware that many other people cannot or should not and have and now have credit card balance to reckon with. :eek:

I was just saying that if I wanted to see FM, could not afford $125, and also could get over my outrage at them charging $125 for probably at least 1/2 of the venue (and I realize many cannot and this is a significant issue for some who have posted), I would pay the $50 and sit in a nosebleed (Note: my experience suggests not all of these seats are horrible - but they are high up). But, that is just me. I realize many other people would not do that. That is why I was asking about the $50 seats.

You know, it is interesting, I do not mind the $125 so much once I get used to it. What I will NEVER get used to is the $45,998,678.02 Ticketbastard charges and venue charges. Do you know those @@sholes actually charge you like $3.00 to download your ticket and print it on YOUR OWN paper. Mother F*%$ers!!!!!!! :mad:

By the way, if I do not tell you then, let me tell you know that I hope you and the Mrs. have a great time on your upcoming trip around the world!!!!! I love to travel :cool:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Although I have said a lot, I am not sure I ever said that :laugh:

I know. I did a little bit of interpretation there. :) I'm not a fan of Ticketbastard either. Mostly I just go to club shows now. I am fortunate to work in Manhattan (did I just say that!?!?), so I just go to the club and buy the tickets without the extra charges.

By the way, if I do not tell you then, let me tell you know that I hope you and the Mrs. have a great time on your upcoming trip around the world!!!!! I, too, love to travel :cool:

Well, it's only halfway around the world. And it's very exciting. Thanks for the good wishes.

[stephmoore]

Originally posted by jwd
Or they could take that $47.50 and go see The Dave Mathews band or Radiohead in concert and get really good seats. That's what a friend of mine from work and his wife are doing. The high ticket prices for Fleetwood Mac just didn't fit their budget. They are both hard working people with decent jobs, albeit not doctors or lawyers. Trying to raise two young chiildren is not cheap. Jenny is a fan of Fleetwood Mac from back in the day and was really looking forward to seeing them play when they came to town. It's just a shame that Fleetwood Mac doesn't know the value of a hard earned dollar and are cutting a portion of their fan base from seeing them on this tour. It's all about the music though and planting those seeds huh?! RIGHT!!


Do they serve cake on the lawn?! :laugh:


Joe


I tell you what I think:

I think another *AMEN* is in order here.

Hey Trackaghost -- Don't sweat it -- I'm in your corner! I think that maybe Tusk57 needs to grow up a bit. Then maybe he/she'll understand what we are talking about. Remember: Open mind leads to open heart. Closed mind leads to hard heart.

[strandinthewind]

Exciting news!!!!!!

Ticket prices in some of the added shows are about $35 for the not as good seats to $97.50 for the best seats.

So, maybe they listened and it is becoming cheaper to see the Mac in what appears to be smaller venues. I also could be the venues are cheaper at this time of year or are just smaller and therefore cheaper. Who knows - I am just glad the prices are dropping at least for now.

Note: I did not check all new venues.

[CarneVaca]

Strand, I doubt seriously they listened. Most likely scenario is that since these are secondary markets, they had to lower the prices to get the attendance.

The economy is still moribund.

[strandinthewind]

I agree - I was just "a hopin' " :laugh:

Also, if they are smaller arenas in secindary markets, they are cheaper to book, etc.

I am just glad the prices are going down at least for the moment anyway.

[gldstwmn]

I was pulling up tenth row floor seats for the ND show last night so I wonder how that one is selling. They were still full price.