Jonathan Todds Email No One Was Supposed To See: READ

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Ok people... I have been reading and commenting on all of the Jonathan Todd threads going on and I know you all are aware of my feelings on the matter. I did not join the fan club so I was not directly affected by the whole fiasco. A lot of people think that my ill feeling towards Todd is due to the fact that I was banned from his crappy board but as you all know was later re-instated as there were no grounds for this. However my reasons go a whole lot further than that. I wasn't sure about bringing all this out in the open but I feel I have to. I was insulted in an email that Todd sent in response to one of Louise's (highpriestess53) emails requesting Fan Club assistance from JT for our UK convention, that was supposed to be sent to Micks management, but, accidentially was sent to Louise.

I'll let Louise explain more...... please take the time to read

Pip

[LilyRose]

Sweetie, I would love to read this, but I don't see anything to read.

:distress:

Susie :D

[highpriestess53]

From: "Louise J Beard"

This is my statement about the events that lead upto the volley of
e-mails sent between myself and Mr. Jonathan Todd of Sabremark Inc.administrators of MickFleetwood.com and FleetwoodMac.com and a subsequent telephone conversation.

After many months of intermittent dialogue between myself and Mr. Blain Clausen of Immortal, management company in charge of the affairs of Mick Fleetwood, it was decided that due to the workload concerning Fleetwood Mac they were unable to help with a UK fan convention. This lead to Mr. Clausen recommending that I contact Mr Jonathan Todd about mentioning the
convention on the 'Official' website FleetwoodMac.com.

The subsequent reply was addressed to Mr. BlainClausen and sent to me in error by Mr. Jonathan Todd.
Mr. Todd on two occasions tried to re-call the message.
Now knowing he, Mr. Todd, had made this grave error, sent me an email explaining that the e-mail had been played around with by one of his workers.

At this point Iwas still acting in the interest of the convention and
tried to remain polite and asked if Mr. Todd could put up the convention information on FleetwoodMac.com.

On Saturday 26th April 2003 at 7pm UK time I received a phone call from Mr. Todd though I had NOT given him my phone number (on Monday 28th April I called Mr Blain Clausen and he notified me that he had given Mr.Todd my phone number not realising the reason for Mr. Todd calling me other than a 'collaboration between fanclubs')

Mr Toddmade mention of the e-mail and apologised for my receiving it in error but NOT for the content. I said I was shocked that this was the attitude taken by him.

After Mr.Todd made this'apology', his first issue was to slander Pip
Fidler saying that she had gone ballistic on the message board and suggested strongly that she was a troublemaker.

I kept things polite and we chatted, the conversation turned to the convention. It was then that Mr. Todd suggested we postpone the convention and try to do it on the back of a European tour, in which case he could help us out.

The conversation turned gradually to me,Mr Toddmade an offer for me to become European 'correspondent' for the FleetwoodMac.com board under the new forum heading European Happenings in exchange for 'privileges' for
the convention. He made mention the two MickFleetwood.com'fan
moderators' ("Trinity and Jackie")who had been deemed 'safe' by acting in the interest of MickFleetwood.com for some time and the privileges that they had received, ie tickets and flights to attend the Fleetwood Mac Family and Friends concert performances. Mr Todd explained that I had to be deemed safe before these privileges were extended and that he could also by-pass management to do so.

To keep things open I said I would give Mr Todd's comments some thought and the call ended.

After the conversation was terminated, my immediate reaction was that Mr. Todd had offered me a bribe to make good for his error and to placate me with a 'position' so that I could make gain for myself and the convention.

Mr. Todd next email says he is awaiting confirmation about my submitting a regular column on European Happenings I find this quite astounding as I had NEVER agreed to do anything of the sort. Another thing is that I by my own admission am not in the thick of all things Fleetwood Mac and thus would not be the right candidate to fill this 'position'. Thus I made my reply short and sharp.

Again, even after my brusque reply, Mr. Todd sees fit to open the
position to further dialogue to which I have sent no reply.

Louise

[highpriestess53]

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From: "Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac" <[email protected]>
To: "'Louise J Beard'" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Fleetwood Mac convention
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:28:54 -0700
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Hi Jonathan


How are you? I hope that this finds you well....

I was speaking with Blain Klausen of Immortal yesterday re the Fleetwood Mac fan convention and he has referred me to you to ask if you could put some information about the UK's first Fleetwood Mac fan convention on Fleetwood Mac.com to help us promote it. We have pretty much exhausted all available avenues when you have no money behind you and have found that the doors aren't opening like we would like and ticket sales have been pretty abysmal.

Blain and I have communicated on several occasions over the past three to four months, about the convention, however due to being very busy with FM and the tour, CD promotion etc, they can't give us any time....which is disappointing but understandable. So I am appealing to your good nature to help us out would you be kind enough to do so......please.
Thank you

I will look forward to hearing from you in due course

Warmest Regards


Louise Beard aka crystalball

[highpriestess53]

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From: "Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac" <[email protected]>
To: "'Louise J Beard'" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Fleetwood Mac convention
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:28:54 -0700
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Hi Blain:

Some of the people involved with this have been so bad on Mick’s board we’ve banned them. I’m worried about promoting events we have no control over. Once we set this precedence we’ll have to offer equal “air time” to every requesting party. Finally, they can’t spell your name and therefore should get NO consideration whatsoever! Please advise if you want this posted. My vote is no. If you want to support them, let’s put them in the CART and get a portion of their ticket sales! Someone still needs to verify this is representative and legit.

JT

[highpriestess53]

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From: "Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac" <[email protected]>
To: "'Louise J Beard'" <[email protected]>
Subject: Recall: Fleetwood Mac convention
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:34:00 -0700
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Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac would like to recall the message, "Fleetwood Mac convention".

[highpriestess53]

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From: "Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac" <[email protected]>
To: "'Louise J Beard'" <[email protected]>
Subject: Recall: Fleetwood Mac convention
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:34:27 -0700
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Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac would like to recall the message, "Fleetwood Mac convention".

[highpriestess53]

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From: "Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac" <[email protected]>
To: "'Louise J Beard'" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Fleetwood Mac convention
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:47:39 -0700
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Hi Louise:

One of our people thought it humorous to play with your message and accidentally sent you the reply! We’ve recalled this and hopefully you won’t be troubled by first message.

We’d be happy to promote your program and have always allowed and supported your links on the MickFleetwood.com site.

Please send me any appropriate information and we’ll try to see where on our FleetwoodMac.com site we can provide promotion. We expect a board to come up soon on the site and that would be a natural. For now, we may be able to put you in the “Happenings” section.

We never accept “commissions” or sales referrals for promotion of Fleetwood Mac programs and we need no financial or other compensation from you.

Let me know how we can help!

Regards,

Jonathan Todd

[highpriestess53]

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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:12:48 -0700
From: Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Fleetwood Mac convention
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Hello Louise:



Thanks for taking the time to speak with me this weekend. I’d like to confirm that if you’d like to submit a regular column on European Happenings we’d be interested and appreciative. You could select a weekly, bi-monthly or monthly update. You’d provide copy which we would review, verify and edit. Once approved, this would appear under a new space on the FleetwoodMac.com site dedicated to European Happenings.



Please let me know if you’d like to spearhead this project. I believe we can be more inclusive of the European fans by having this penned by someone who is a recognized fan living in Europe.



Regarding the Convention, I’ll hold off making any announcements on this pending hearing back from you regarding the dates. If Fleetwood Mac tours Europe, I believe your Convention would gain much more steam than proceeding with the current date. That’s a choice for your group to make. I’ll support you as best as possible either way, Louise.



Please let me know your thoughts.



Warm Regards,



Jonathan

[highpriestess53]

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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:12:48 -0700
From: Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Fleetwood Mac convention
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Jonathan



In light of recent regrettable events I will not be taking you up on your offer.



Regards

Louise

[highpriestess53]

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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:12:48 -0700
From: Jonathan Todd - Fleetwood Mac <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Fleetwood Mac convention
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Louise:



Hope all is well. We’d always be open to revisiting this issue if you choose to participate. If the Convention needs support, please let us know and we’ll provide any promotion we can for you.



Regards,



Jonathan

[LilyRose]

That just makes me sick! This guy really is something else!

Susie

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Hi Blain:

Some of the people involved with this have been so bad on Mick’s board we’ve banned them. I’m worried about promoting events we have no control over. Once we set this precedence we’ll have to offer equal “air time” to every requesting party. Finally, they can’t spell your name and therefore should get NO consideration whatsoever! Please advise if you want this posted. My vote is no. If you want to support them, let’s put them in the CART and get a portion of their ticket sales! Someone still needs to verify this is representative and legit.

JT [/B]

As you can imagine myself and the rest of the convention team were appalled at this email received by mistake. I am the only person on the convention team who was banned from that board so he is clearly referring to me. However my ban was totally un-justified and lifted. Todd admitted to another party that all I had been guilty of was sarcasm. And then he still tried to continue saying I was a trouble maker in the phone conversation to Louise!!

And to even suggest taking a cut of the ticket sales of a NON PROFIT MAKING fan convention is proposterous! To me this totally shows him for what he is and I hate that he has anything to do with Fleetwood Mac

I'm sure that in light of this happening people who questioned why I left Mick's board will now understand. I hope people from over there read this.
Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by LilyRose
That just makes me sick! This guy really is something else!

Susie
Thank you for taking the time to read it

[saradorna]

OMG!!! That is sick.

Ughh!!! Thats making me sick!:mad:

Isabel

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by saradorna
OMG!!! That is sick.

Ughh!!! Thats making me sick!:mad:

Isabel

It seems like that the fans are just a means of making money we are all just walking dollar bills to him...and he seems to think that we can all be won over with 'positions' with the MF.com and the FM.com boards where gain can be made from a bad situation to haul his ass out of the crap.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

One of our people thought it humorous to play with your message and accidentally sent you the reply! We’ve recalled this and hopefully you won’t be troubled by first message.



That's it.... let's just blame one of the minions.....



We never accept “commissions” or sales referrals for promotion of Fleetwood Mac programs and we need no financial or other compensation from you.
And I find it almost laughable that he felt the need to put this in here if we weren't to have read the original message

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by highpriestess53
It seems like that the fans are just a means of making money we are all just walking dollar bills to him...and he seems to think that we can all be won over with 'positions' with the MF.com and the FM.com boards where gain can be made from a bad situation to haul his ass out of the crap.

I just feel incredibly insulted by all this. We were slogging our guts out at our own expense to try to do something for the UK fans as I doubt FM will come over here and this is the treatment we receive... whether we were meant to know about it or not. And we would have known nothing about his true feelings if he hadn't screwed up. I'm not saying this is the reason the convention was cancelled as we were struggling to sell tickets as promotion was proving difficult but this certainly left a very sour taste for me

Pip

[saradorna]

so long to post this? I'm not a mind reader. lol

I thought that Pip was angry because some email that JT had sent her. She mention something in the FM UK board about the fact she had prove that JT was a fraud (or something like) in black and white.

Well, damn! this is just so sick.

Mick seems to be a magnet for GLB's.

GLB = Greed Little Bastards.

Isabel

[saradorna]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
I just feel incredibly insulted by all this. We were slogging our guts out at our own expense to try to do something for the UK fans as I doubt FM will come over here and this is the treatment we receive... whether we were meant to know about it or not. And we would have known nothing about his true feelings if he hadn't screwed up. I'm not saying this is the reason the convention was cancelled as we were struggling to sell tickets as promotion was proving difficult but this certainly left a very sour taste for me

Pip

Well, people are not going to be interested in buying into the convention until the band goes there. I believe that's why you were having such a hard time selling tickets.

I do hope they DO go to europe and you guys get to see them. At least that would take out SOME of the bad taste this hole thing has left you guys in your mouth.

Isabel

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by saradorna
so long to post this? I'm not a mind reader. lol

I thought that Pip was angry because some email that JT had sent her. She mention something in the FM UK board about the fact she had prove that JT was a fraud (or something like) in black and white.

Well, damn! this is just so sick.

Mick seems to be a magnet for GLB's.

GLB = Greed Little Bastards.

Isabel
I have to admit we weren't sure about posting this. But the crap keeps continuing and people are still not happy with the fan club fiasco and the pre-sales as I have been reading on the ledge.

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by highpriestess53
[B]From: "Louise J Beard"

Mr. Todd next email says he is awaiting confirmation about my submitting a regular column on European Happenings

I just need to LMAO off at this bit.... European Happenings??!! Well that would be a short column! Puhleeese....LOL!

Pip

[ivorymorning]

I left Mick's Board right after Louise received these emails - I want nothing to do with JT or Sabremark.

I was part of the Convention Team and his comments were an insult to each one of us.

Jonathan Todd has to go.


Rachel

[seeknpeace]

Jonathan Todd has to go.

Yes, he does. That management would think that this is OK enough to not FIGHT to have him removed is beyond me. Maybe you will hear more on that later.

The thing is that Jonathan Todd is a lying snake. These emails are blatant examples of his intent, that he would pass the blame, as he has done Over and Over, (which worker did this, uh, Jackie? Trin? Watch out you two,,,,you are getting ready to take some falls. Why do you think he passed the buck and is not posting? You are digging yourselves in and you can't be fired.).

One other point everyone: That JT felt comfortable enough to POST those comments to Blain Clausen says that at Least Blain Clausen is in the know about what JT is up to, approves of it and they may be in this together, if not the whole rest of Micks management. I think that JT called Blain and told him what he had done and that Blain gave him that phone number so he could cover his ass. Not because he thought that JT was going to work out the advertising of the convention.

JT was too "familiar" with Blain in that email. There was no official demeanor nor affiliated respect, only the way you would talk to a "close" associate who would "approve" of the way that he spoke of Pip, ridiculed Louise and the convention and lastly wanted a cut of the tickets of a nonprofit event to PROMOTE FLEETWOOD MAC.

I Ask You All This: Has any band EVER been in line for so much FREE promotion?

Jonathan Todd, if you are reading this, what you did to me, my friends and countless unknown ppl on Mick Fleetwoods Board, in the name of Fleetwood Mac is unconscionable and you should be ashamed, but, you won't because it is my opinion that you seem to have a sociopathic personality that is only concerned with your pockets and will lie in a cocaine heartbeat...There seems to be no heart nor soul that loves this band nor it's fans. And, if you put up a chat board or bb on FMac, guess what? You have a lot of unhappy fans, getting more unhappy by the moment...are you gonna kick them off the board of FM as you did Micks site? THEY PAID TO BE THERE. "Think about it, think about it before you go"
(You don't even know what that is from, do you superman?"

[seeknpeace]

Oh, and one other thing for your doubting Thomas's, please note on the headers that Louise provided the IP addy is the same, and also notice that this communication was sent at or around midnight to one in the morning...

WHO has access to his obviously HOME computer at that time of the morning? Do the minions hang out there and do this when they should be home in bed or getting ready to go there?

Just look at the IP addys and info. There is a reason all that was posted. JT thinks that we are allllllll so stupid. Not all of us. Why do you think that he banned us?

[greatdarkwing]

As I sat here reading JT's garbage, I almost had to go throw up!

THIS IS JUST DISGUSTING! I'M NEVER GOING TO THAT BOARD AGAIN!


TO QUOTE CONRAD: "THE HORROR!THE HORROR!"


~Alex

[jwys_soapbox]

This is all so sickening. I truly hope that a personnel change is made before more damage is done. I got out of the fan club and got my refund (after waiting two months for my credit card company to make a decision), but I'm still burned by all the deleted posts, misrepresentation and now two-facedness of JT and his group. Fan clubs should be run by fans--not PT Barnum-esque marketing "experts."

John

[SmthngOfADreamr]

He's a pig - not that any of us doubted it before, but this really throws some more fuel on the fire. This guy has got some seriously bad karma headed his way. The sooner the better for us!

[ivorymorning]

After I'd had chance to digest what JT had said in his misdirected email, I sent this reply back:

Dear Mr Todd

I wish to comment on the email that you recently misdirected to my friend Louise Beard, the contents of which affect myself and others.

Firstly let me tell you who I am.

My name is Rachel Lewis. I'm a housewife living in England and I'm one of the members of Fireflies UK. With others I've been working behind the scenes trying to put together our convention. I've been a fan of Fleetwood Mac since 1975, when my very thoughtful parents played me the 'white album'. I am not a media mogul, I am a mere fan, a person who buys the records, goes to the concerts and posts (occasionally) on fan forums - albeit not yours Mr Todd. I removed myself from the Mick Fleetwood message boards after I first read the email below. As you are aware, there are many places around the internet where I can post my thoughts and feelings about Fleetwood Mac, including our very own Fireflies UK.

I would like to address some of the points raised in your email:

Firstly, your assumption that: "Some of the people involved with this have been so bad on Mick’s board we’ve banned them."

To my knowledge, only one person was temporarily banned from your message forums and she was reinstated because you didn't have a valid reason to ban her; she merely made a few sarcastic comments about the alleged problems with the fan club. Is that really 'so bad' ? That is entirely in character for any member of the British public, as we always deal with adversity with a healthy dose of sarcasm. She was never rude about Mr Fleetwood or any other member of the band and she never would be. She is the best of people Mr Todd, a valuable friend, a loyal fan and motivated by her regard for the band, not a balance sheet or anyone's agenda. Pip Fidler is not a trouble maker, she has been a valued member of the fan community for many years and to have misrepresented her in this way demands an apology.

Secondly, what is an honest spelling mistake here and there.

Louise has been in contact with Blain many times and he has never corrected her, so obviously this is not an issue for him. You could spell my name Rachael or Raychel, I would not dismiss you out of hand, I would still know who you mean. Can you guarantee that all email and correspondence from Sabremark is spelt correctly every time? From what I've seen from the fan club emails, this is not always the case.

Thirdly, your comment about taking a portion of our ticket sales.

I don't easily have my faith in people shaken, but your comment about taking a portion of our ticket sales was offensive in the extreme. If you had bothered to find out a little more before you dashed off your email, you would have known that this convention was being financed by us as a service to fans in the UK. Service is a little known word these days, but the Oxford Dictionary defines it as "the act of helping or doing work for another or for a community..." Our budget for this event makes no profit whatsoever and each one of us is considerably out of pocket after putting up money to buy media advertising and other such expenses. As a businessman you may regard this as folly, but I'm sure you can appreciate wanting to make something happen that you believe in.

It is this aspect of your email which has also clouded my opinion of Fleetwood Mac. Your company runs their website and the website of Mr Fleetwood, you are their spokesman on this point and so I must naturally assume that your views reflect the band. Do they really only see their fans as a means of lining their own pockets? If that is the case then I doubt I can remain a fan of Fleetwood Mac, and as I said earlier, that would be nearly 30 years of my life. Would Fleetwood Mac be happy knowing that they had lost a fan because of an offhand comment made by you ? I don't know, but I'm sure you will have the opportunity to speak to Mr Fleetwood about that before I will.

Our motivation for putting together this convention was never money. It was because we haven't had the pleasure of seeing the band perform live in the UK for over 10 years now. We thought it would be a great idea to put together a party for UK fans, to give them something to tide them over until the band play here again - which we hope will be soon. But we're not holding our breaths on this, as the British Fleetwood Mac fan gets quite used to disappointment.

As to whether our convention is 'representative' or 'legit' let met tell you that Louise has been in contact with management for many months on this, we have tried time and again to get the merest crumb of support. Amazingly, no one has just come clean out and said 'no, we would not be able to support you'. Had we known where we stood much earlier in this process, we would have not taken up so much of your valuable time. Everyone has had ample opportunity to question what we were doing. Right from the outset we made it a priority to obtain official permission to use images and names because we are conscious that the Fleetwood Mac name is a trademark. As for whether we are 'legit', then let me just ask you, bearing in mind any difficulties you may have experienced with the fan club, can you think it would be worth our while being anything other than 'legit' when faced with angry Fleetwood Mac fans?

I finish by saying that I won't be returning to view any Fleetwood Mac sites operated by Sabremark, I can get my news and information about Fleetwood Mac from other sources.

You do not need to reply to this email, I appreciate you are a busy person, I just wanted you to be aware of exactly who you've hurt and insulted with your misdirected message. I am not a crazed fan, my life does not revolve around Fleetwood Mac and I do not spend every waking moment scheming to get close to them. I'm a normal person, living in the English countryside, bringing up a young family, who just happens to love the music that Fleetwood Mac make and has a great regard for them. It's just such a pity you've taken the shine off them for me.

Regards
Rachel Lewis

[Alison]

This is making me sick. I don't think there are any words that can express what Im thinking or feeling right now.
I can't belive that there are people on his site that still kiss his a**. They bow down to him like he was a god. Well God he is not.
One day he will have to stand before his Maker and give account of what he has done. I would not what to be him.

[Tango]

"It was just one more thing." We all knew Mr. Todd set that board up to be a marketing machine, and that's all well and fine. What we have always objected to was he set it up to have an appearance of a fan site, and it's never been that. It has always been solely "about the money." Content??? The content is what appears in the "shopping CART."

The appearance of a "message board" was to encourage people to think it was fan friendly. It's not a true fan message board, but a "show board." Anyone that was not playing the game and fitting into the pro-marketing scheme was banned/their messages deleted. Some of that changed after the MSNBC article and a bit of investigations generated by the very fan club members that they banned.

My question at this point is why do fans go there? They are supporting a marketing machine that does not care at all for fans. Jackie and Trin continue to support that site. There are other major fan based web sites. The Legacy has a message board, Burnish.net has a message board, and if you are reading this thread, you know The Penguin has a message board. There are hundreds of other boards. There is also a "newsgroup" if you like your messages totally unmonitored. You can find links to many MORE message boards and Fleetwood Mac fan sites via this link:
http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/links.htm

To continue to support that message board, that site, and that man equates to giving him support for his behavior of ripping off fans in my opinion.

If you want honesty and integrity, visit the fan sites or visit Nicks Fix. Nicks Fix is NOT affiliated with Mr. Todd's sites in any way. Send your reviews to Nicks Fix. Send them to The Penguin. Send them to a place where they will remain after the marketing scheme is over.

You sicken us Mr. Todd. You sicken all of us.

[greatdarkwing]

By the way, a big thanks to Pip and Louise for letting this reach the light of day.

~Alex

[highpriestess53]

Guys like him give business a bad name....

[seeknpeace]

Please get mad enough to DO SOMETHING. We need ALL your voices. Please don't just sit back and agree, please please do something...

Again:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10118

Go and Get the info to complain. You want him gone? Here is your chance. :wavey:

[Bella Figura]

I have been a longtime FM fan since Rumours and an Internet fan since 1996, I was around when the NicksFix was a baby fansite and lurked everyday on the original Ledge. When the Ledge took a break, I ran around with the fun hip crowd at burnish.net. When the New Ledge came back up, I joined right away and promised myself I would be a poster. I'm still under a 1000 posts but I try. :). I lurk everyday at burnish.net and regularly check out the boards at fmlegacy, uk fireflies and sararhiannon underground and continued this with even Micks' board

I say these things so you can understand and believe when I tell you that I know for a fact what devoted and sane fans, Louise and Pip are. In fact, all the UK fans are some of the most devoted and knowledgeable fans in the Internet community. They do not deserve this treatment and any longtime Internet fan on FM knows this...

I did not join the fanclub, I'm a 38 year old wife with a busy IS job, a house to run and elderly parents to take care of. But the FM community allows me to keep in touch with and nurture that youthful beautiful teenager I once was and to keep her dreams alive. And I think that most FM fans are sensitive souls doing the same thing.

and this is the research JT neglected to do when he started this venture...you have hurt our very essence but we are not childish fools and you have only stirred our wrath. "like a heartbeat, drives you mad" more and more fans hear your tell-tale heart.

Louise, Pip, I am soooo sorry this happened to such great fans.

[blackdove]

As a member of the UK Fleetwood Mac convention team I was absolutely shocked and appalled to hear about all that had happened.

This man clearly does not have a conscience and is only involved with the Mac for the money and 'status' it brings him.

All this leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and I am trying not to let him and his actions taint my feelings towards the Mac...I wonder how they would feel if they knew what had happened?

[enibs78]

I wish I could say I was shocked, but I'm not. Just deeply saddened. Louise, Pip, and everyone else, I'm really sorry.

JT just has to go!! :mad:

[Sally]

Man, I had this great reply all typed up but then the server got clogged and I lost it...so I'll try again.

I've been a lurker for a while and came out and registered after the Buffalo show. I am SO shocked about this, that someone in this day and age could act so disgustingly toward music fans and try to get "a piece of the action" in a non-profit convention. I'm sickened by this rat, I seriously am.

And I'm very happy that I did my research and read before joining the fan club. What a nightmare!

I looked around...but not all that well...to find out if there are opinions from the band regarding this type of behaviour. I've read some things about Stevie & Lindsey not liking stuff about the fan club, but I don't know what that is...I wonder how they (including Mick & John) would think if they got their hands on that email that "shouldn't have been sent."

I'm just disgusted! Boooo to Jonathan Todd!

But thank God there are great fans out there it's just a shame that they have to go through stuff like this that isn't deserved.

[glitter_fades]

Ladies, my heart goes out to you. I don't believe how foolish he is...taking this attitude with Pip and Louise, of all people! It just shows his unbelievable ignorance of FM fans, and of people in general. Pip was the most fair-minded poster on his propaganda board. Unlike me, and some other outspoken people who used to post at that site, Pip never spoke one word of profanity, negativity, rudeness, nor anything else he implies by labeling her a troublemaker. I'm not the least bit surprised at his crudeness nor his unmitigated gall. However, I am insulted that after everything we've caught him doing, and everything we've called him out on, he still thinks fans are too stupid to see his true colors! Does he really believe anyone buys that story about somebody at the office playing games? Bwwaaahahaha! How many times has he blamed others for the crap he pulls while hiding behind the name FM?

I said it before and I'll say it again...I hold the band responsible for everything he says and does. He's using their name with their blessing. Does anyone believe for one minute...if we set up a website using the FM name to advertise and expose everything that's gone on with the fan club, the official website, and the other crap JT's involved with, that we wouldn't get a message within 48 hours saying the band will sue if we don't stop what we're doing? They have the power to stop him. They choose not to. My opinion is...Fleetwood Mac (probably spearheaded by Mick) are all taking a calculated risk sticking by this guy, staying silent, even if it costs them a few of their most loyal and supportive fans. The band and their people decided at some point that remaining silent is the lesser of all evils, even if fans get taken advantage of, insulted, and even attacked in the process.

If voicing these opinions makes me sound like I'm not a true fan, so be it. After 30 years, I can't say it matters to me anymore. No, I'm not a fan who's been to every concert and posted at every fan site. I lurked here for 2 years before posting about the fan club mess. Mick's board was actually the first site I posted at besides a friend's private list. Ha! I actually thought it's claims of being an "official" site gave it a bit more credibility. Wow, was that the furthest thing from the truth! Still, I've supported this group with my hard earned dollars since 1974. I'm very disappointed that the lasting impression they've left me with is that they're as greedy as any other people in show biz. I'm not usually that naive, so why does this hurt so much?

I feel this band has written me off, along with every other fan outraged by the dealings of the fan club and the man who's exploiting the fans using their official website. Do they care? I doubt it. Do they know what's going on? Don't let your long-held love of the band cloud your judgmemt. Sure they know, but they also know...silence is golden.

:sorry: No offense to anyone who disagrees. JMHO.

[seeknpeace]

I feel this band has written me off, along with every other fan outraged by the dealings of the fan club and the man who's exploiting the fans using their official website. Do they care? I doubt it. Do they know what's going on? Don't let your long-held love of the band cloud your judgmemt. Sure they do, but they also know...silence is golden.

Unfortunately, I think that you are correct in your feelings. No one really cares about the fan base at all....maybe the attorney in SCarolina handling the Chicks class action suit will care? Next stop, SCarolina.

[glitter_fades]

That nasty email he sent you is surely the reason behind his current copyright warning on all emails.
Someone's afraid to see own his words come back at him. Like a copyright on an email means anything.
What a joke!

[ERigby818]

Pip and Louise,
Thanks so much for sharing all this. It makes me violently ill, and I'm SO sorry you had to deal with this, but I'm glad you are making people aware of what a crook this man really is. He NEEDS to be in JAIL.

-Sonia

[golddust]

~~~Add my voice to those who thank Pip, Louise and those who took the time to explain what happened. It's troubling to say the least...~~~

[Macphan143]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel this band has written me off, along with every other fan outraged by the dealings of the fan club and the man who's exploiting the fans using their official website. Do they care? I doubt it. Do they know what's going on? Don't let your long-held love of the band cloud your judgmemt. Sure they do, but they also know...silence is golden.


:(

[gldstwmn]

No surprise. I do have a burning question though. Did we, the fan club and former fan club members pay for those people to attend the tour rehearsal in LA? Also, didn't they post their plane tickets or something in order to show they paid their own way? I'd been of that bb for a while when that happened.


And all of it on the backs of other fans. That should get you the Jonanthan Toad medal of honor. You disgust me. Ban that.:wavey:

[darklinensuit]

How long can the band afford to ignore these insults and issues?

It's a credit to our devotion to this band that we haven't turned our backs.

I think it's gonna hit the fan soon. I believe in my heart that either Todd will be fired or Stevie and perhaps Lindsey will walk out on the tour. I'm not trying to claim that Stevie is outstanding fan advocate of the year (though perhaps she is - I don't know), but I single her out because she is usually so sensitive to any kind of controversial image that might harm her career. I can see her screaming that she hasn't avoided commenting on the Iraq war for the last several months only to have this fan club nonsense offend many people and blow up in her face. Something's coming.

Thanks for posting this e-mail.

- Jake

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I do have a burning question though. Did we, the fan club and former fan club members pay for those people to attend the tour rehearsal in LA? Also, didn't they post their plane tickets or something in order to show they paid their own way?

That aspect disturbs me, too. Here we pay money to this fan club. The good fans get fleeced. Then these vile people get perks paid for with our money! I think the implications he made in his phone call to Louise speak for themselves. The whole thing's revolting! Still no words spoken from anyone representing the band. They still allow him to do all the talking for them. As far as I know, he's the only one they've blessed to speak to fans on their behalf. Guess that's because he's doing such a wonderful job? Baaarrrfff!

[wondergirl9847]

THAT MAN NEEDS TO BE PROSECUTED to the fullest extent of the law of the United States of America!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

This is DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!! I know that Pip and Louise are AWESOME FM fans and would NEVER do ANYTHING to slander them and they would NOT lie about this, doubters out there, if any.

I pray to GOD that JT gets DEALT WITH and even if that means no more fan club or website, SO BE IT...we did JUST FINE without those before, we can go back to JUST THE FRICKIN MUSIC!!!!!!!!!

From our mouths to God's ears.....may JT be FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[seeknpeace]

From our mouths to God's ears.....may JT be FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please help us see that he is....write to management..please everyone...take control of this and get him OUT....

Only WE can do it. It is up to US.....come on please .. Everyone...

[GardenStateGirlie]

This really makes me sick to my stomach. Pip, Louise...you guys are both really nice people and I can't believe the nerve of this two-bit ass-kisser. I really think that people ought to make signs to bring to their concerts. I think the band needs to know and I can't help but thinking that a lot of this has been going on over their heads or at least the heads of Stevie, Lindsey and probably John as well. I'm not a fan club member but I feel just as strongly about taking action as those of you who are members. I don't think that Stevie and Lindsey would stand for this kind of behavior and someone needs to show them what's been going on. It just isn't right.

[Miranda]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
How long can the band afford to ignore these insults and issues?

It's a credit to our devotion to this band that we haven't turned our backs.



I'm so confused.

I want to support the Mac but don't want to ignore sh*t like this.

The guy bribes people with fan club money and gets away with it? :eek:

What the hell's going on? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[SaraRhiannon]

http://www.sararhiannon.com/ohmy.jpg


It just never ends, does it? If there is still ANYONE out there who feels the need to pledge allegiance to Jonathan Todd and mickfleetwood.com (excluding the two infamous SELLOUTS, of course), it will be a sad, sad thing indeed.

Tango made a good point-- by continuing to post on that joke of a board, you're lending support to Todd and his agenda, whether you intend to or not. The Fleetwood Mac online fan community got along just fine without that board. If you're registered there, I encourage you to delete your account. There are many, many other forums out there, as we all know. Lets make a statement by refusing to post there. OR, and possibly even better, post links to this thread. Repeatedly. As many times and in as many different topics as you can. Make the two sellout lapdogs spend their entire weekends deleting, deleting, and deleting some more. If you're pissed off, then make it count. And if you haven't done so already, check out those links Jan posted and file a few complaints. There ARE people who will listen. The CA Attorney General's office has recieved many complaints, and has responded. We CAN turn things around here, but not by silently agreeing. We have to do a little more.

Sorry for the rant-like post, but this is important. We need to send a clear message to Mr. Todd that this is NOT going to go away.

[Tango]

Originally posted by SaraRhiannon
http://www.sararhiannon.com/ohmy.jpg

Tango made a good point-- by continuing to post on that joke of a board, you're lending support to Todd and his agenda, whether you intend to or not. The Fleetwood Mac online fan community got along just fine without that board.

You know Sara, he's reading us again. He just sent out a news letter. If you POST to his thread on Mick's board, you'll get a chance at a prize! Wooo Hooooo! ;) Nothing to show for my PAID fan club membership, but he's GIVING stuff to people to get them to post on the board now. Coincidence? LOL!

[seeknpeace]

Nothing to show for my PAID fan club membership, but he's GIVING stuff to people to get them to post on the board now. Coincidence? LOL!

My God How Pitiful!!! But, the saddest part is that there are those who will post to get a prize...Hey, Doc, here is your chance to make your daddy voice heard!!! Go on over and get yourself an egyptian bracelet!!!

[sparky]

As a chump who joined the fan club, I am doubly disgusted.

I would compare that man to a reptile, but reptile rights groups would likely sue me for defamation.

[glitter_fades]

Hey, you don't even get a prize for selling out your fellow fans! Remember, this guy parses his words better than Bill Clinton. He says "a chance" for a prize. Yeah, right! Where have I heard this before? Not in the original fan club agreement and emails...that's for sure! It was slipped in after the fact and sounded as dubious then as it does now.

[GardenStateGirlie]

What makes me laugh is I was sent that e-mail from him twice about the "contest." I followed the link to see that only like, 4 people responded. I hope no one else does. He can stick that in his pipe and smoke it! :nod:

[mike_nh]

I seriously think the band has no clue as to what's been going on
with the fan club and all. but if stevie knows that even one of her fans are being mistreated she herself would get involved. i'm
sure she has some pull in the decision making. remember
this is the same woman that stood on stage in 1989 and said
to security ''if you **** with my people then i'm gonna get real
****in angry...i'm watching''

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by mike_nh
I seriously think the band has no clue as to what's been going on
with the fan club and all. but if stevie knows that even one of her fans are being mistreated she herself would get involved.

Please don't think I'm disrespecting your opinion. I just want people to be clear about one thing.

EVERY EFFORT HAS BEEN MADE TO CONTACT BAND MEMBERS THROUGH THEIR MANAGEMENT and these efforts started before the tour.

Several dozen people have called, written, emailed, etc. about the fan club and the conduct of the guy in charge. If you think they are unaware, please lend a hand and contact somebody. There's a thread about how to complain. Please read it and do what you can to help get the word to them. Any ideas on how to better let them know? I'm for any new thoughts on this. Maybe we've gone about it the wrong way? I don't think so, but I'm open to any suggestions.

:wavey:

[GypsyAngel]

That is so disgusting. :distress: What a creep. He gives head lice a good reputation. And I'm so sorry it's happened to such loyal, nice people. If he's not respectful of fans like Louise and Pip, he couldn't be respectful of ANYONE! It's just revolting. I'm very impressed by your e-mails to him, though. Well worded, thoughtful, not defamatory in any way. Just the facts, cause the facts are all you need. You guys have nothing to hide. Him on the other hand...well...I guess we'll see him implicate himself further in the future. :nod:

Melody :angel:

[tamaraluvsFM]

Yes this is very disgusting and I am sorry that a Fleetwood Mac fan had to be subject to this horrible situation. I am one of those fan club members and have to say I am sickened with this whole situation. I only pray that he gets his just reward.

Tamara

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by mike_nh
I seriously think the band has no clue as to what's been going on
with the fan club and all. but if stevie knows that even one of her fans are being mistreated she herself would get involved. i'm
sure she has some pull in the decision making. remember
this is the same woman that stood on stage in 1989 and said
to security ''if you **** with my people then i'm gonna get real
****in angry...i'm watching''

That's why there's no Stevie in those pictures and videos, I'm sure. Okay so there's one up now but still. I can just imagine her saying "I'm not letting that sob take my picture."

[EnchantedSLN]

Pip & Louise, I'm glad you decided to come forward with this information. Jonothan Todd needed to be exposed for the greedy two-faced fraud that he is. It disgusts me that he has anything to do with Fleetwood Mac, and I regret to say that my utter distate for this guy & his very association with FM are souring my appreciation for my favorite band... try as I may not to let it. That's the sad thing, for me.

I've long disliked him, but this mess really pushes it over the edge. I'll be writing my fair share of letters, and will gladly add my name to any petition.

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by glitter_fades
Please don't think I'm disrespecting your opinion. I just want people to be clear about one thing.

EVERY EFFORT HAS BEEN MADE TO CONTACT BAND MEMBERS THROUGH THEIR MANAGEMENT and these efforts started before the tour.

Several dozen people have called, written, emailed, etc. about the fan club and the conduct of the guy in charge. If you think they are unaware, please lend a hand and contact somebody. There's a thread about how to complain. Please read it and do what you can to help get the word to them. Any ideas on how to better let them know? I'm for any new thoughts on this. Maybe we've gone about it the wrong way? I don't think so, but I'm open to any suggestions.

:wavey:

Believe me I know how difficult it is to get through to management on more pleaseant issues let alone the fall out from crap like this, the band will not know about this, because they are not in the need to know category, this is why they have managers to deal with these issues, particularly now that the band are on the road.

[PollyThePenguin]

Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:
Thanks for your support Polly:rolleyes:

[tamaraluvsFM]

I was just wondering...has anybody attempted to get word to Stevie or Lindsey's camp at all? I just can't see them supporting this at all. I mean we dont know them personally but from what I know all these years, its just not in their nature to support something like this and I think if they truly knew EVERYTHING, that they would be furious.
Any word from the Nicksfix, her official site, on this at all?
And Lindsey has an official one too...what about that?
I am assuming that these "official" sites have some clout to get messages to and from their respected namesakes. So..I am wondering what in the heck do they know?

Tamara

[estranged4life]

but at the same time not surprising to me what happens when this "Fan club" is involved....All they are out for is profit & NOTHING else!!! I guess it really is "Pay You Will $$$$"

I feel sorry for the real fans such as Pip & the other "UK Fireflies" in this who are now put-off by this stupid BS!!!

Brian "Pay You Will...Pay You Will....Gimme one more dime" j.

[OK-LANDSLIDE]

I really am beginning to feel just as estranged said "PAY AS YOU WILL" I do not believe for one minute everyone in the band doesn't know what a mess, back stabbing, money grubbing fiasco the fan club is But has one band member stepped forward and offered anything to us dumb suckers who got took.
No our money is long gone, as I wish I could say JT is. But not to be, I can not believe after looking at other bands fan clubs what they are given plus the price. Range from 15.00 to 25.00 and they are given a hell of a lot of promotional items. Posters, key chains, membership cards, etc. I guess one must live and learn. I got took as many others did and most diffently will not renew my membership. I did finally end up with some great seats no thanks to fan club. My own time spent searching for them. I hope to GOD Fleetwood Mac gets smart and cans JT'S butt. At least a little satisfaction for us fan club members. OK-LANDSIDE

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by tamaraluvsFM
I was just wondering...has anybody attempted to get word to Stevie or Lindsey's camp at all? I just can't see them supporting this at all. I mean we dont know them personally but from what I know all these years, its just not in their nature to support something like this and I think if they truly knew EVERYTHING, that they would be furious.
Any word from the Nicksfix, her official site, on this at all?
And Lindsey has an official one too...what about that?
I am assuming that these "official" sites have some clout to get messages to and from their respected namesakes. So..I am wondering what in the heck do they know?

Tamara

Hi Tamara

having had quite a lot of dealings with that side of things ie trying to get stuff onto official website....the folks that run the sites have no REAL dealings with management so have no say in the day to day affairs of the band. AND everything that appears on the website has to be approved by management.

Louise

[Jessica Leigh]

i was aware of some of these happenings but after reading this whole thread this evening i was sent into a state of acute sickness..... i consider myself a very resilient person.... when **** happens to me i can let it roll off my back pretty damn quickly.... but i was sick for quite awhile tonight... not only because of the stuff that has happened with JT and these emails... but mostly after reading fans' responses.... i am so terribly bummed for people whose views of the band have changed.... i got to a sad point tonight where i couldn't make myself happy by listening to a stevie or fm cd.... it didn't work... it did not make me feel one bit better... the whole cd started and ended without my noticing.... i am just sort of in a daze.... i myself still love the band the same as i did a year or two or 10 years ago.... but it breaks my heart that this man changed other fans' lives when it comes to their love for fleetwood mac.

the man needs to go.

maybe britney spears needs a fanclub person? she can have him. we don't want him.

[highpriestess53]

Hey Y'all

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, for the sake of ALL FM fans, direct some of this anger that you feel to the bands management and any contacts connected to the band that you may have that are willing and able to help in the cause for getting this man ousted.

[shackin'up]

but a dumb*ss, too. What an unbelievable stupid thing, that "accidentally" sent e-mail. And those naive reactions on his stupid behaviour are hillarious. I've been so stupid becoming a member for the tickets. But hey, 60 bucks is nothing compared to what you girls are experiencing. Keep up, we'll support you!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:
Oh and btw.... the posts on the boards are clearly marked the same as this. No need to click on it if you find it a 'boring diatribe'.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by sparky


I would compare that man to a reptile, but reptile rights groups would likely sue me for defamation.
That would make an excellent signature! LOL!

Pip

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by shackin'up
Keep up, we'll support you!

Thanks we appreciate it....if you want to lend a hand COMPLAIN VERY LOUDLY to management......the addresses appear in another thread on this board.

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:

I do believe that the significance of this has been totally lost on you....it doesn't just affect Fan Club members and former members...it is the whole Mac community. Jonathan Todd has been employed as a representative of Fleetwood Mac, as a middle man between FM and the fans......In PR terms this guy is a freakin' nightmare. He is a conman, causing divisions in the community and is basically an allround bad egg. I am sure that the band as a whole would not want to be associated with a fraudster.....and as a longstanding fan I will be going the whole nine yards to make sure that who ever needs to know about this will get to hear it.....
Perhaps you can be a little more pro-active it will make you feel heaps better....you know a little service in the community?

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:

Don't read them. There are plenty of other topics for you to read if you do not want to read them. Of the 20 or better on this page alone, only two or three are dedicated to this subject. It would make you happier to not read and make this kind of remark and it would make all of us who DO care a lot happier if you did as well.

You are welcome to join the cause if you want, but, if you don't, please don't degrade Pip. She has had enough of that from JT. Maybe you will get lucky and he will get a chance to have a go at you one day. Then, see, where will your supporters be?

[seeknpeace]

but it breaks my heart that this man changed other fans' lives when it comes to their love for fleetwood mac.

Everyone, there is so much more that you do not know and there is a reason. Only waiting for management to do something...but, there is so much more. This is why we ALL must write to them. EVERYONE. And nothing gets their attention like us contacting the FBI and the CA Atty Gen office. BBB is a given, but, the first two are musts.

I know that in this world there are ppl who do, and ppl who complain, and ppl who look the other way and ignore. We need all of those types of ppl to balance our world. But, we need more of the doers in on this. WE know that we have the support of hundreds, but, most are just waiting to see what happens and we will get what we want if you all participate.

I cannot stress to you how important it is to lose the "there is a hole in the road, someone ought to fix it" thought and change it to the "I am gonna call and get that hole fixed" attitude. If you don't know what to do, pm me. I will help you. I need you. All the fans need you. This is not so much about 60.00 anymore, it is about morals and principals and just what is right.

And, if ANYONE can get the info to a particular band member, that is the one thing that would help. I am not so convinced that any band member outside of Mick, and then John cause they are buds, know of this. I am not convinced. Stevie and Lindsey do not live in the real world. They are insulated and she is very insulated in a tour to keep the stress off of her and her voice. She doesn't even drive a car for Gods sake... If any band member knows about this, I think that it has to be Mick and like I said earlier, this grieves me so much. But, don't forget that Mick is the one suckered into crap over and over... member the Blob?

[ERigby818]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET.
Actually not all of us read the other Mac boards. I know the Ledge is the only one I read regularly. It may be re-hash for you, but it's the first time I (and others, I'm sure) have heard this story, and like I said, I appreciate it having been posted here.
-Sonia

[Sally]

Originally posted by OK-LANDSLIDE
I can not believe after looking at other bands fan clubs what they are given plus the price. Range from 15.00 to 25.00 and they are given a hell of a lot of promotional items. Posters, key chains, membership cards, etc.

Precisely why I didn't join....I mean the $70 price tag, plus all this bull***** y'all were writing regarding the fiasco and the bad tickets and whatnot...I thank God for y'all! I tell ya!

I pay $35 a year for another fan club I'm in...we get 4 newsletters a year, a card, an 8x10 photo, a special fan-club only CD (usually with rarities or rockin' live tracks...only 2 on it usually, but hey--who cares?), the opportunity to buy a special fan club t-shirt, and we can purchase fan club seats (only 2 per concert, but still...there are always ways to get more through other fan club members) for as many concerts as we can afford---and with the exception of a few concerts (and few meaning, like 4 that have been screwed up) I have ALWAYS been in the first 7 rows. The fan club sets up certain times that they go on sale, and we call or get them via the fan club site. It's not a Ticketbastard pre-sale (we pay no taxes, no fees, purely face value). Once we have them, the site says "You Have Tickets!" Sure, we don't know what our seats are until we get to the venue but that's one of the thrills behind the night! My best seats have been fronts---twice. None of this "best of the best 20%" or whatever other vagueness there is with the Mac fan club. They have some MAJOR overhauling and learning to do.

Keep up the fight, Louise & Pip...and everyone else! I don't mind reading about it on all the boards...not everyone frequents them all, you know? Spreading the word is important. I don't know you from Adam, and I'm still new to the board---but this crap has got to end somehow!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by ERigby818
Actually not all of us read the other Mac boards.

This is why it was posted on them all....

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Eagles Mac
Eventually Mick & Stevie will wake up and have to take some action

I agree with all you said EM and I hope Pip can warn everyone and striaghten out everything soon too. :)

...but I was kicked off by the "busy server" deal when trying to type this here so since I've just said this at the legacy, I'll paste it in here as I think it's something to consider in regards to what I've quoted of your posts above:

Well, I don't mean to be a downer on this but look at it this way, if ANY FM member knows what's going on and wants to just make money out of it and doesn't care about the fans, would they ever actually admit it?

I haven't seen/read these interviews where SN & LB say there are "things about the fan club they don't like" but if that's the case, then why not DO something about it NOW?

As refreshing as I'd find it, I can't see any of them saying to the press "yeah we knew the fans were getting screwed and that's why we hired JT, to get as much money out of them as possible". That's NOT gonna happen. It's one thing for Lindsey to say in interviews NOW that "The dance" was all just about making money, but what, SYW isn't? It'll be interesting to see what he has to say about it when the next Mac album sufaces, if there is one at all.

I bet WB & FM have planned all along to "start all over again" after this SYW "project" and never saw mf.com, fm.com or whatever as a "permanent" thing, it's just temporary as a marketing tool for SYW. They have no use for it when the SYW stuff dies down, I mean, they could use it to sell older albums etc. true, but that appearently isn't enough sales for those people. Now I like the music on SYW and all and just because I feel this way doesn't mean I don't like the music but if we are saying our true feelings here, my guess is that the only statement that will be said about this to the press (if any) will be made (conveniently) after the tour is over and then they will say "oh we had no idea that stuff was going on so we fired JT and hopefully this won't happen next time" or whatever and then if there is another FM album it will probably be 5 years from now or well, maybe 4 so Mick can say in 2007 that "it's an album commemorating the 40th anniversary of FM" even though the band was only really active half of that 40 years, or wait, since he likes to ignore lineups etc. the 2007 album will be the commemoration of "the 30th anniversary of "Rumours"" and by then new impressionable teenage fans will discover Stevie etc. then and all of this stuff that happened now will not be known to them at that time hence why I'm guessing Mick has discovered the plusses of waiting between projects, so he can con a new generation of fans since the ones that have been around for a while have seen it happen over and over again in one way or another and they will just go and hire another "salesman" to do the website/fan club thing then (i.e. what JT has done now).

As for John Kinney/Stevie caring about the fans, I admit I don't know much about it and maybe this doesn't mean anything but I keep thinking about how the Nicksfix had that poll asking if people were happy with the fan club or not (which of course was showing a resounding "NO!") and then it mysteriuosly disappeared a few days after it started. So, maybe JK is a fan but the powers that be for official sites like that still make them puppets that "will do as their told" if nothing else and I think being a fan has little or nothing to do with it when it comes to the crunch.

I sure hope not, but this is just my guess of what will happen I hope I am proved wrong but it seems completely feasable to me by making it look like they care by canning who was going to be out of work anyways as it was most lkely seen as a "temp" job anyways by them, they still get their money and time will help them get that new generation of fans to "fraud". I don't mean any of this as an "I told you so" kind of thing, but the younger fans here will see how frustrating/unerving it is to watch newer fans being had but not being able to warn them about it as they will be in the belief that all will be well with whatever promises are mae in 2007, just as you may have felt when paying your money for the current goings on (if you were one that paid that is, as I didn't and I remember Pip saying she didn't).

For the record, I've always said I've always liked the music of FM (and that's why I'm a fan of course) but I've never said I liked the members of FM as people (going by what I can go by of them that is, and given the chance, I'd never want to meet any of them in "real life" so to speak in the fears that they may be just as bad or even worse then I fear them to be but maybe someday I'll be proved wrong about this as well, I hope so anyways.

John

[darklinensuit]

Here's an angle.

Let's say behind the scenes, the band (or, rather, half the band) has already confronted JT about the situation and demanded that he shape up.
Maybe they gave him an ultimatum with a time frame --- they want fans to be served better within the next two weeks, for example. When he reports back to them or their management, what can he say at present in his own defense? We know he's not above twisting facts (or ripping them to shreds) to save his ass.
I see the band gathered at a long table, and him making a presentation complete with visual aids and a pointer, if not Powerpoint. Here's what Mr. Slick would say:

- The problems with the pre-sales were worse at the start, but have improved. Here are current maps of the seating that have been opened recently.
- We are offering fans a t-shirt. This is a fan club perk. Exotic jewelry is on its way.
- Complaints come from just an angry minority now. The whiners are not at OUR bulletin board. (He won't mention kicking people out.)
- You can see that the venues are pretty full, and here are three posts from our official bulletin board that praise the fan club.

It takes a while to catch a weasel in the act.

Thank you, Pip, for getting some proof in writing.

- Jake

[glitter_fades]

John, you're analysis makes sense to me. I don't have a high opinion of band members as people either. You're right. The band won't be coming out publicly with a statement saying they knew the fan club was a sham run by an unethical oaf. Hardly!

Wouldn't it be interesting during a press interview if a journalist put the band on the spot by asking if they know the fan club is unpopular with fans? Are they aware that the director has a bad reputation with fans as well? Wouldn't that curl some hair?!!

Firing the guy after the fact doesn't say or mean much. I wasn't even holding out hope they'd pull the plug as soon as they saw the full picture about this guy. They may no longer have the power to do that. I was, however, wishing for some small acknowledgement from the managers...some indication that the situation is being reviewd. A lot of people informed each band member's management team...with documentation...of what's going on. So far, everyone's playing deaf, blind and dumb.

[wetcamelfood]

Glitter - Yeah it would be cool if they were confronted by a digging reporter on this and if they did make some kind of statement NOW about it but yeah, it's unlikely and if they did it would just be the old managerial crap of "yeah we're aware of it and are looking in to it", stalling methods, so they can do the "look good" thing later after all the milking of the SYW cow had been done. Hate to be negative but just trying to be realistic, maybe they'll surprise us. :)

Jake - Oh I'm sure he'll say stuff like that, I guess I give the band members too much credit to think that they'd be smart enough to KNOW he'd never admit it to them if he was up to dealings they didn't like so that being the case, if they cared, they'd look in to it themselves. I realize it would be hard with him/them cleansing that board all the time and all, but you'd think if they have money to spread around on hiring people like JT then surely they could get someone to look in to it for them like a P.I. or whatever and that's assuming they are "too busy" to do it themselves. I'm sure they are busy to an extent but I really don't think they are as busy as people make them out to be, you always hear about bands complaining about road life being a lot of sitting around in hotels waiting etc. "So fine, AS LONG AS YOU'RE WAITING, take your laptop out (which you can also afford) and look in to it yourself!" Ya know? Eh well, waddayagonnado? :)

John

[gldstwmn]

I think the bottom line is the band is not going to do even the slightest thing they feel might jeopordize the tour or the harmony that exists between them right now. Ditto for management. As for them being insulated and not living in the real world, absolutely. I'm not dissing her at all but remember Stevie's funny comment on Leno about paper or plastic?:(

[Miranda]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I think the bottom line is the band is not going to do even the slightest thing they feel might jeopordize the tour or the harmony that exists between them right now. Ditto for management.

Probably true. :nod:

[sarahw]

I agree they wouldn't do anything to jeopardize the tour or their relationships which can always be described as tenuous......but I am not really shocked that Mick would associate with and do business with a person like Jonathan Todd. Mick has always been about the money. It is just unfortunate that a fan like Pip gets treated with such disrespect because of it.

[Rapunzel]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:

That's plain mean Polly! He ****ed with one of out people and he's going to pay!

HEY PIP - YOU GO GIRL!!! :D

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:

Maybe you were unaffected by the fanclub/JT BS, but a ton of us were, myself included. Personally I'm glad to hear that people like Pip and Louise are spreading the word everywhere. A bunch of us got royally screwed and frankly I'd be thrilled to see it on the front page of every paper and hear it shouted from every rooftop!!! So how about giving your cynicism a rest, or putting it to a better cause. We have every right to bitch, so get over it.

[GypsyAngel]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:


Normally I totally agree with your opinions, Polly, but in this case I totally don't. Jonatahn Fraud really screwed with some good people and got caught red handed. He's a f*#k up and should be talked about as much as possible so the band can see the light of day. I'm all for the situation being brought up as much as possible.

[Cour]

There's very little left for me to say about Jonathan Todd and the fanclub, I've been very vocal about my feelings. The saddest thing that has come from his actions is the way he has hurt so many people and taken away some of the joy they should have felt with the release of the SYW cd and excitement of the tour. He WILL NOT succeed in taking over this community. IMO the online community is stronger than it's ever been. We were here long before Jonathan Todd, Mick's Message board and the official FM site arrived, and without any doubt, we will all be here long after they have all left.


The one thing that should not be lost on anyone is, if this is the ONE email you did see, can you imagine what you have NOT seen? Can you imagine the conversations Jonathan Todd has had with his staff and the things he has said about the FM fans? More important, if this is a glimpse into ONE email message and conversation between Jonathan Todd and Mick's management, can you imagine what the rest must have been like? Go ahead and imagine the WORST! I know that Lindsey and Stevie's management were not in on the scheme to extort money from the online FM fans, but IMO this email communication between Mick's mgmt and Jonathan Todd says without a doubt, that Jonathan Todd did what he did to the FM fans with the permission, approval and encouragement of Mick Fleetwood's mgmt. That is NOT to be lost here and should never be forgotten.


Now that the community has seen this there should be no doubt about what the intention was all along. I am with Sara and Tango and everyone who agrees that if members of this community continue to support Jonathan Todd by posting on that message board, you have no friends here with the rest of the FM fans. IMO you either stand with the rest of us, or you can stay with that tiny group over there forever. I have noticed several of them have recently started posting on the Ledge and other fan sites, perhaps they're hedging their bets in case that board is closed. I say forget it! I will not respond to your posts here and on other fan sites, I will ignore you, and if you try to spread your crap here (as some are trying), I will call you OUT in a heartbeat! IMO the ONLY reason someone should be posting on that board is to try to get rid of tickets they are stuck with as a result of the fanclub presales.


The people who post on that message board are a TINY portion of this community and ignoring and boycotting them will not divide us. There's a time to stand up for what you believe in, this is now the time. The FM fan sites have always been about sharing with every fan. I've seen posts over there since these emails came to light about OUR message board and THEM. Posts about ONLY sharing the crappy content from the fanclub photos with THEIR board. Fine with me! I hope they remember that when they're over here trying to find answers to the MAC FACTS contest the club is going to hold. I hope they remember this when they're bored talking to themselves about nothing and want to explore the wonderful content on the Penguin and other fan sites. They can start their own board, or join one of the dozens in this community right now. If they stay there and post there and continue to align themselves and kiss up to Jonathan Todd, Trinity and Jackie, you have no friends here.
NO EXCUSES on this one!

[darklinensuit]

When Mike Wallace and crew show up at their doors, will they be able to claim innocence if the spotlight is on them? Will there be a paper trail to the band itself, or will they be believed by viewers if the members say that communication never got past management?

- Jake

[seteca]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:

If you feel strongly about the whales, go an' save'em. If you don't wanna read the thread don't click on it. We're not running out of cyberspace are we? The subject of this thread concerns 1000s of people, and DIRECTLY affected 100s of people, including me. It will be given a rest when WE feel it's time. If the sight of even the title of the thread bothers you so much, why don't you stay away from that board for a while........?(hint hint).

[Mad4stevie]

Originally posted by Tango
To continue to support that message board, that site, and that man equates to giving him support for his behavior of ripping off fans in my opinion.


I completely agree. I have deleted my profile over on that board and encourage others to do the same.

There is no way I am going to support anything that is connected with that self-serving idiot.

Loyal fans, such as you, Pip, deserve so much better.

[FiercestCalmSea]

I am SO sickened by this.Not surprised though. I met Louise very briefly at the Boston TISL show and can i just say she is the sweetest lady...and although i have never met Pip it is very easy to tell what a loyal and awesome fan she is..
Stuff like this is just sad..i wish i could meet this Jonathan character..i'd give him a good swift kick in the gonads that is for sure..

[David]

Originally posted by Cour
The one thing that should not be lost on anyone is, if this is the ONE email you did see, can you imagine what you have NOT seen? Can you imagine the conversations Jonathan Todd has had with his staff and the things he has said about the FM fans? More important, if this is a glimpse into ONE email message and conversation between Jonathan Todd and Mick's management, can you imagine what the rest must have been like?This Jonathan Todd stuff is like craaaazy Ginny come back to haunt us. The Fan Mail Hag & the Sabre-Dick Bunco.

[gldstwmn]

I missed the Ginny Kamano era. Could someone enlighten me?

[Alison]

Do tell me what Ginny did?
Why did she leave Stevie fan club?

[jools]

Hi,

I thought people may be interested in the post that i have posted at JT's forum
Sorry for the spelling mistakes!!


Author
Topic: The Truth (Read 43 times)

jools
Newbie




I love YaBB 1G - SP1!




Posts: 14
The Truth
« on: Today at 7:36am » Quote Modify Remove


Hi,

After having posts deleted on this site, i have now joined the Ledge Forums.
I would ask anyone who is interested about all the bad happenings on this site(ie being being banned, not getting valid reposnses from questions etc) the visit THE LEDGE FORUMS.

It will bring out some interesting facts about Jonathon Todd and this website.

I am sure that this will be deleted, but this will just prove a few points about this site

Julian
Logged




Julian

[jools]

hi , im back again


Guess what, as of 07:30 (uk time) on the 25th May 2003, a day that will forever show in the history of the world.

I have been banned from the Mick Fleetwood Forums ( what a shame)
Nothing surprising then
What i will slag them of for is this;

I have not received any notification via email of my banning


Comments are welcome


If i have posted this in the wrong place, i am sorry


Julian

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by jools
hi , im back again


Guess what, as of 07:30 (uk time) on the 25th May 2003, a day that will forever show in the history of the world.

I have been banned from the Mick Fleetwood Forums ( what a shame)
Nothing surprising then
What i will slag them of for is this;

I have not received any notification via email of my banning


Comments are welcome


If i have posted this in the wrong place, i am sorry


Julian


Hey jools

well yesterday I rejoined for the purpose of the sending the link to this thread as a PM to some of the moderators of THAT board
I didn't even post....and managed to get band a second time....LOL!!
Believe me it is good to be here in amongst TRUE Mac fans.

[Janet]

To start, I have nothing to do with this. I have never been near those boards, but I do belong to the fanclub ONLY to get good concert seats and that's it.

But I am sorry to hear this is all happening. This has been a ever growing snowball of events and it's going to become so hugs soon that it will have to be stopped before its just too big to manage.

I don't want to see anyone's name slandered JUST because they are a Fleetwood Mac fan and want to help other fans. Thats all you guys were doing.

This person just needs to be stopped and I wouldn't stop until he stops and is fired from his position.

Again, as Cour said, WHO KNOWS what else he is saying!

So guys, just clear your name and get him fired, thats all I have to say. Im sorry , again, this is happening to you.

[OK-LANDSLIDE]

I am sorry if my post offended anyone. I know way was directing it towards Fleetwood Mac. But this guy must go............he is nothing but a liar and back stabbing !#@$3. He is turning many against the band. I just meant they must know this by now!! Can JT'S sorry butt!!!! OK-Landslide

[tamaraluvsFM]

Well I really hope that people are not turned away from the MAC due to a money hungry backstabbing creep. I love Fleetwood Mac and I have for a long time and I know that this will not draw me away, but it does make me watch more closer what I join, and who runs things. I am pretty cautious but I joined with the positive feeling that this should be ok cause its my beloved Mac. I just hope those new fans dont get turned off from JT, as he is not the FM voice, just some cockroach making money off of them.
I just wish we could all collectively (as one voice) do something.
Yes we can write and write but I want to yell at someone face to face. Hum...is that legal to write that?

Tamara

[SaraRhiannon]

Originally posted by tamaraluvsFM
Well I really hope that people are not turned away from the MAC due to a money hungry backstabbing creep. I


I'm enjoying the music just as much as ever, but I have to admit that I'm seriously debating whether I should buy tickets to any shows. Considering the ridiculous (IMO) ticket prices, I was already thinking of passing on this tour. I guess all of the fan club BS has pretty much been the deciding factor. I'll be living vicariously through the bootlegs this time around.

[OK-LANDSLIDE]

Okay die hard Fleetwood Mac Fans I posted this on another thread so incase you did not see it.............Aftr many hours of research on computer I found out that Mitch Snyder Organization in CA handles all Fleetwood Mac's Tour publicity. I do not have an email address for them. Found phone number thru dialing info, they are located in Sherman Oaks, CA. Yes, it did cost me a buck or two long distance call, but after venting on them about JT I did get some peace of mind from the whole crappy fan club BS. If enough people go to them I feel only a matter of time (or hope) before Fleetwood Mac realizes this guy must go!!!!!!!!! OK-LANDSLIDE:nod:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Cour


The one thing that should not be lost on anyone is, if this is the ONE email you did see, can you imagine what you have NOT seen? Can you imagine the conversations Jonathan Todd has had with his staff and the things he has said about the FM fans?

This I agree with.... in my own instance he has clearly been going round trying to justify banning me by calling me a troublemaker.

Pip

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by SaraRhiannon
I'll be living vicariously through the bootlegs this time around.

That quote is the story of my life...LOL!!!!

Brian "Love these Brazilian bootleg DVD's" j.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by estranged4life
That quote is the story of my life...LOL!!!!

Brian "Love these Brazilian bootleg DVD's" j.
Mine too!!!

Pip

[gypsygem81]

Originally posted by PollyThePenguin
Sorry to hear of your trevails, Pip. And I agree with you about JT and all the douchebags on Mick's site ! But frankly it gets pretty bloody boring seeing your diatribe on EVERY FREAKING MAC BOARD ON THE PLANET. Give it a rest, eh? Take up a good cause. Save the Whales or something. :rolleyes:

How rude! Don't you know that Pip is one of the most loyal fans around? What her and Louise are doing is for the sake of Fleetwood Mac fans, because we don't like the fact that they are being treated so badly and getting continually shafted by the 'official' fan club. You're one of those fans so how on earth can you have the cheek to be so rude to her? As you can see by the replies here and on all the other message boards, the vast majority of the fans are behind her 100% and it's obvious that something has to be done about this. That is exactly the reason that it has been posted all over the place - in order to make sure that as many people as possible know what is going on.

I was on the UK convention team and I run the Fireflies mailing list with Pip. I know how much work went into the whole thing. She is a good friend of mine and I don't like to see people having a go at her, especially when she is sticking up for us, the fans. Don't you think you should be a bit more grateful to her for actually trying to do something about it, rather than ignoring it and wait for more fans to be shafted?

If you're so worried about the whales, go and save them yourself instead of slating genuine fans!

Love Gem

[highpriestess53]

http://www.mudcrutchfarm.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=365

add your voices...if you know of fansites, official sites the are MAC friendly go post on them I have started with the Tom petty sites both fan and official.....e-mail who ever you know, all your contacts that you may have....whatever their level of importance
If you got it use it.....

Lets rid the Fleetwood Mac world of Jonathan Todd scum sucking sonofabitch..

[Cour]

Originally posted by disEnchanted
They can start their own board, or join one of the dozens in this community right now. If they stay there and post there and continue to align themselves and kiss up to Jonathan Todd, Trinity and Jackie, you have no friends here.
NO EXCUSES on this one!

i'd favor forgiveness if they denounce that scum.
if people post there and want to come here just to spin their wheels, I say get lost.
if they post about changing their opinion i'd be for letting them have their say.
i'll ignore all who continue to support what goes on over there.



I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't have a problem with people who want to leave there 'now' that they cannnot escape the truth of what the fanclub and Jonathan Todd is all about. But, if they continue to stay and think they can be part of both communities, I say no. If they don't like any of the dozens of FM-SN-LB related message boards and lists around the community, it's real easy to start their own group away from that board. If they continue to post on that board, I don't want any part of them.

[Cour]

Originally posted by SaraRhiannon
I'm enjoying the music just as much as ever, but I have to admit that I'm seriously debating whether I should buy tickets to any shows. Considering the ridiculous (IMO) ticket prices, I was already thinking of passing on this tour. I guess all of the fan club BS has pretty much been the deciding factor. I'll be living vicariously through the bootlegs this time around.

Sara, I hope you change your mind, I'd hate to think you're missing seeing a show has anything to do with this mess. Please don't let that keep you from going, you won't be disappointed! There are great tickets being released all the time on TM and it just won't be the same if you don't go:)


PS..Thanks for Judy and the LOL guy:)

[Bella Figura]

from Cour:If they stay there and post there and continue to align themselves and kiss up to Jonathan Todd, Trinity and Jackie, you have no friends here.

from disenchantd: i'd favor forgiveness if they denounce that scum.
if people post there and want to come here just to spin their wheels, I say get lost.
if they post about changing their opinion i'd be for letting them have their say.
i'll ignore all who continue to support what goes on over there.

Hi Cour, I completely understand your feelings of anger due this situation, but please remember lots of newbies (thereby innocents) first use search engines to find info about FM and probably visit official boards b4 moving onto more established boards such as the Ledge. So I can not support your above statement. Longtime Internet FM Fans should educate the newbies thru PM's (with this link casually thrown in) and not posts which will be deleted. If you are a member of Mick's board, stay a member and educate the newbies. We need to be smart about this, if everyone leaves in a mass protest, we'll lose an avenue to educate the masses, the innocents, the newbies...and perhaps lose the groundswell of support which is now developing. Stay united, stay calm, stay educated and stay intelligent, only when we rise above do we ultimately win.

Polly, I know you've been trounced quite a bit in this thread, so let me offer a hand in reconcilliation. yes, it is tiring to hear negative when you come to a board to "have some fun" but as you have seen, Pip has such a large support base because she is a longtime FM Internet fan and we defend our own like the mama lion. So you've gotten a few scratch marks...I hope you are a strong devoted fan who can roll with the swats and can come back stronger for the experience. (you seem that way to me from your Mick board posts) Message boards can be tough on the ego, but there is still fun to be had here...and a community whose respect can always be earned even after being flamed :nod:


Seeknpeace is doing it the right way, posting the complaint addresses as much as he/she can, but we are reaching the saturation point so we need to reach out to the larger music community...this includes casual FM fans who pop up at Micks site :)

[David]

Originally posted by tamaraluvsFM
Well I really hope that people are not turned away from the MAC due to a money hungry backstabbing creep. I love Fleetwood Mac and I have for a long time and I know that this will not draw me away, but it does make me watch more closer what I join, and who runs things. I am pretty cautious but I joined with the positive feeling that this should be ok cause its my beloved Mac. I just hope those new fans dont get turned off from JT, as he is not the FM voice, just some cockroach making money off of them. But that's been the band's story for many years, & these fan club fiascos & "official" snafus are practically as old as the band itself, as any of us who joined the last three or four official fan clubs can attest to. Money-hungry backstabbing creeps have always played a large part in the methods the band uses to "interact" with the people who buy its albums --- I won't even use the word "fans" because I think as far as the band is concerned, there aren't any fans. You're merely part of the audience. I'm generalizing, of course, but there is great truth to this, despite the people who will say that they met so-and-so many years ago & were treated well. There are always exceptions, even in Fleetwood Mac's case. But the overriding rule across vast stretches of time has been one of utter neglect of the fan base if not out-and-out mistreatment & even fraud.

Out of the five members of the Rumours era, only Stevie Nicks has shown any gratitude for & even awareness of her fans, & even in her case it's been nothing to write home about, given the fact that she hired a sociopath to answer her fan mail for over twenty years. Some old members of the band seem happy in recent years interacting with their fans, like Bob Welch & Rick Vito, I suppose, but that willingness to interact could be attributable to current situation rather than lifelong inclination. Hell, at least we got some fine Q&As out of them recently. Did any of you truly enjoy the Stevie Nicks Q&A on her site? It was as lethargic & uncommitted as any of her early '90s concert performances. And Mick Fleetwood's real-time chat last year ... oh my god ... what a bozo idea. Ever been in an elephant stampede out on the African veldt? And surely some of you remember several years ago when Marty made a good-faith attempt to virtually turn this information goldmine site over to Carl Stubner. Stubner turned the offer down flat, after first agreeing to review a proposal. The reason? So that the band or Mick or whoever could start www.mickfleetwood.com --- a lovely place & a great success, too, which has done a world of good! (Toss that one up like the nux vomica it is.)

The best way to appreciate Fleetwood Mac is from a distance. It always has been. They have always been one of the most fan-phobic bands in the world, & there's nothing new under the sun.

[watchdevil]

Click on the link to see JT in action...

What your $60 really bought you.... (http://www.boners.com/content/789504.1.jpg)

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Bella Figura

Hi Cour, I completely understand your feelings of anger due this situation, but please remember lots of newbies (thereby innocents) first use search engines to find info about FM and probably visit official boards b4 moving onto more established boards such as the Ledge. So I can not support your above statement. Longtime Internet FM Fans should educate the newbies thru PM's (with this link casually thrown in) and not posts which will be deleted. If you are a member of Mick's board, stay a member and educate the newbies. We need to be smart about this, if everyone leaves in a mass protest, we'll lose an avenue to educate the masses, the innocents, the newbies...and perhaps lose the groundswell of support which is now developing. Stay united, stay calm, stay educated and stay intelligent, only when we rise above do we ultimately win.



Very, very good idea

Pip

[Cour]

Bella,

First, the quote you have attatched to my name is not mine and I would appreciate it if you would change it. I don't mind being quoted but those are not my words.

I just lost a whole post due to the server so I'm giving this one more shot today.

I was being very specific and while I understand that you might be new to what has gone on with the fan club and that site, many of us have been put through a TON of crap by those people. When many of us tried to point out the problems that are now widely known, we were attacked by many of them daily. They would come attack you like a pack of rabid dogs and tell you off. Those people got the full support of the administrators and the Knight while we were thrown out. I was thrown out 3 times and the last time I never said one wrong thing but merely asked questions in a very respectful way that they didn't want to answer, so they banned me. I am done trying to educate them, maybe you or others would like to take a crack at some of them, good luck!

I am well aware of newbies and my original comments were targeting a very specific group of people over there. It's been a THEM VS US attitude since that site opened. They are deluded into thinking they are somehow better than us because they're official and they only know how to take from this community, but turn their back when the community is being burned. As I said in one of my posts, there's a time to stand up for what is right, now is the time. If these people are happy there, fine, stay there but I will not welcome them back here when they're bored or that site is closed.

Some of them have recently joined this site and other fans sites, while continuing to post there. IMO they're trying to hedge their bets for the time when that site is shut down. Some of them have posted here trying to stir up trouble with the same tactics they put many of us through over there.


The facts are all out now and they can't say they didn't know. If they want to do the right thing they can do it now. If they don't, I don't want any part of them later on. Sorry, but that's the way I feel. If it's someone new to the community, hopefully they'll find their way here, but it won't be through links on that message board.


Bella, maybe you and others can try to post links and educate them for a few days...let us know how it goes:)

BTW...I wouldn't be at all surprised if the administrators read the PM of outsiders and anyone they suspect is not being loyal. Just a feeling after things that were said to me.


I apologize if my tone seems harsh, I'm in a hurry and this and I lost my original post, I'll probably get a busy message for twenty minutes.

[Vianna]

Do we know for a fact that Mick Fleetwood hired this Jonathan Todd guy?

or did his management? or maybe even Warners?

How much contact do band members have with their managements?

What I am trying hard to figure out here is how much Mick, John, Lindsey and Stevie know about all this.

I don't know about the rest of you but I work in a place where it is entirely possible that our head of school does not know everything her subordinates do. She relies on them to do their jobs correctly. I wouldn't if I were she but that's the way she does things. Maybe Lindsey Mick et al expect the same.

If so in this case they are deluded, obviously.

Being as I did not join the fan club and nothing has been done to me personally I have no case against Mr. Todd except I don't like his attitude toward the fans. Those of you who did join the fan club I would suggest writing the Better Business Bureau. They may or may not be able to do anything for you specifically but if enough complaints come in, at least there will be an official type place that knows how this man treats customers. It will hurt him in the long run if not right now.

I posted on that site over there maybe twice. I found it unfriendly and just never went back.

If there is anybody out there that reads these boards and has any access to band members personally (not through their managements) that would be the best way to complain of course.

This is just such a sad thing. Like David, having been a fan for many years, I can vouch for the band's general non-communicativeness with fans and I had hoped this was the beginning of a new era. Guess not=:-(

[SaraRhiannon]

Originally posted by Cour
The facts are all out now and they can't say they didn't know. If they want to do the right thing they can do it now. If they don't, I don't want any part of them later on. Sorry, but that's the way I feel.

I feel exactly the same way, Cour. Half of the people over there are CHOOSING to remain ignorant about everything, and the other half just don't care. The other night I posted about 15 different messages there with links to this thread. The PMs and responses I got were to the effect of "go back to the Ledge, we don't care about what you have to say, this is OUR board, etc. etc." THEY are the ones making this an "us vs. them" situation when it need not be. The fan club/Todd problems have been ongoing for months now. The facts are out there. They've had every chance to educate themselves, and are choosing to remain ignorant (hoping that they'll also be deemed "safe" and then receive perks like the two sellouts Jackie and Trinity did? Perhaps.) Whatever the reason, it doesn't really matter to me. I don't want any part of them when the **** hits the fan, the Mick board and fanclub are no longer here, and they're forced to come to the Ledge and to the other boards. I won't welcome them.

[GypsyAngel]

What about e-mailing John Kinney @ NicksFix? Could he help?

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by GypsyAngel
What about e-mailing John Kinney @ NicksFix? Could he help?

I'd like to think it would but if he had his hands tied over the "are you happy with the fan club" poll (that was at the NF and then it "disappeared") then I'd imagine this would fall under the same "gag order" area. JMHO though.

John

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Vianna
Do we know for a fact that Mick Fleetwood hired this Jonathan Todd guy?

or did his management? or maybe even Warners?

How much contact do band members have with their managements?

What I am trying hard to figure out here is how much Mick, John, Lindsey and Stevie know about all this.

I don't know about the rest of you but I work in a place where it is entirely possible that our head of school does not know everything her subordinates do. She relies on them to do their jobs correctly. I wouldn't if I were she but that's the way she does things. Maybe Lindsey Mick et al expect the same.

If so in this case they are deluded, obviously.

Being as I did not join the fan club and nothing has been done to me personally I have no case against Mr. Todd except I don't like his attitude toward the fans. Those of you who did join the fan club I would suggest writing the Better Business Bureau. They may or may not be able to do anything for you specifically but if enough complaints come in, at least there will be an official type place that knows how this man treats customers. It will hurt him in the long run if not right now.

I posted on that site over there maybe twice. I found it unfriendly and just never went back.

If there is anybody out there that reads these boards and has any access to band members personally (not through their managements) that would be the best way to complain of course.

This is just such a sad thing. Like David, having been a fan for many years, I can vouch for the band's general non-communicativeness with fans and I had hoped this was the beginning of a new era. Guess not=:-(

Same here, it seems as though you've answered your own questions with your last paragraph though.

Like the situation where you were saying you work, you wouldn't like to NOT know what was going on with people that work for you so shouldn't the same logic apply to this stuff with the members of FM?

If they don't know what's going on in their name then they SHOULD know but they really have no real reason/excuse as to not knowing. As I said in my last rant, them being "too busy" just doesn't add up to me but whatever, I'd be interested to see how many here think the band members know (even if they won't admit it), time for a poll. :)

John

[The Catdancer]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Same here, it seems as though you've answered your own questions with your last paragraph though.

Like the situation where you were saying you work, you wouldn't like to NOT know what was going on with people that work for you so shouldn't the same logic apply to this stuff with the members of FM?

If they don't know what's going on in their name then they SHOULD know but they really have no real reason/excuse as to not knowing. As I said in my last rant, them being "too busy" just doesn't add up to me but whatever, I'd be interested to see how many here think the band members know (even if they won't admit it), time for a poll. :)

John

I don't think the band knows what's going on, maybe Mick does because he set the whole thing up. But even than, he might NOT know becaus he's on the road. If he does know about all of this, on the road or not, he should do something about it.

Btw, hi everyone!!!! I'm new here.
Thanks for having me :)
Debbie

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by highpriestess53
Once we set this precedence we’ll have to offer equal “air time” to every requesting party.

BTW, JT, you set a PRECEDENT. You take precedence. Looks like someone makes mistakes in his e-mails!

[Tango]

Originally posted by Vianna
Do we know for a fact that Mick Fleetwood hired this Jonathan Todd guy?

or did his management? or maybe even Warners?

How much contact do band members have with their managements?

What I am trying hard to figure out here is how much Mick, John, Lindsey and Stevie know about all this.

I don't know about the rest of you but I work in a place where it is entirely possible that our head of school does not know everything her subordinates do. She relies on them to do their jobs correctly. I wouldn't if I were she but that's the way she does things. Maybe Lindsey Mick et al expect the same.

If so in this case they are deluded, obviously.

Being as I did not join the fan club and nothing has been done to me personally I have no case against Mr. Todd except I don't like his attitude toward the fans. Those of you who did join the fan club I would suggest writing the Better Business Bureau. They may or may not be able to do anything for you specifically but if enough complaints come in, at least there will be an official type place that knows how this man treats customers. It will hurt him in the long run if not right now.

I posted on that site over there maybe twice. I found it unfriendly and just never went back.

If there is anybody out there that reads these boards and has any access to band members personally (not through their managements) that would be the best way to complain of course.

This is just such a sad thing. Like David, having been a fan for many years, I can vouch for the band's general non-communicativeness with fans and I had hoped this was the beginning of a new era. Guess not=:-(

Vianna, you bring up several important questions. It sort of reminds me of the 1970's . . . "What did the President know, and when did he know it." I hope we won't be forced to go looking for a deep throat and smoking gun this time around. ;)

I only have to look at Les's post in the articles/lyrics interpretation section of The Penguin to get a possible answer to your question about "how much contact do bands have with their management." Les put up a CURRENT article, I believe entitled Interview Magazine (June 2003) which said, ""I will spend hours on the phone with my manager, talking about how to do things. Where Lindsey is constantly working on music, I went off and entrepreneured by way through Europe for two-and-a-half years doing dot-com companies. I didn’t sit at home. I wish I had."

Management must be in deep communication with the band right now, as they help to set up the tour, iron out problems, deep with budget/pocket change issues. I don't know how much the management is communicating to the band about the "fan club debacle." My guess is the band doesn't know, outside of Mick Fleetwood, as his management set it up. They know about "the CART", etc. I also know each band member's management has been contacted. I don't expect them to interrupt the band as they are on tour to say, "Guess what Mick's pulled this time. They survived him putting out a book that savaged Lindsey, and really made the rest of the band look like trash. He did it for the money. He didn't care about content. I think we can see the same thing happening now. Mick has spoken on videos, so there is no doubt he is aware of the fan club and as Jackie posted (for Mr. Todd), he receives print outs from the message board. :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone wants to spoil the tour for "the band." I just wish the management didn't want to spoil the tour for "the fans." I think their attitude is, "Hey, there can't be any more than maybe 2000 people in the fan club. Give them a few pictures and clips, and we'll still offer them the 'fan club tickets' on the second leg. These people have nothing but faith."

David, I would love to hear more about the other fan clubs. On the other hand, I don't think the argument about Ginny the fan mail lady pertains here. She wasn't paid $60-80.00 by each person to answer their letters, and no promises were made. In the case of the FM Fan Club, promises were made, money was exchanged, and there has been virtually nothing to show for that payment. Mr. Todd is now giving things away to merely get people to post on Mick's board, to people that aren't even paid members of the fan club. More salt in the wound. I think the rub with the fan mail lady comes from the fact that the internet changed her contact with fans. She formerly got hand written/typed letters via US mail. "We love you Stevie, and your songs meant so much to me." I suspect the internet "instant access" changed the sort of communications given to her. Fans wanted information, rather than just sending in "fan mail." She clearly refused to be the info babe. In retrospect, in my opinion, perhaps the whole internet "thing" by her was a mistake. Maybe Stevie's people thought it was going to save them postage and ink.

I am interested in hearing the other moderators take on the fan club, if you wish to share that info. And if you didn't join, maybe say why you didn't. Thank you for any opinions.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by The Catdancer
I don't think the band knows what's going on, maybe Mick does because he set the whole thing up. But even than, he might NOT know becaus he's on the road. If he does know about all of this, on the road or not, he should do something about it.

Btw, hi everyone!!!! I'm new here.
Thanks for having me :)
Debbie

Hi Debbie, I respect your opnion and welcome to the ledge. :)

Vianna - I didn't mean for my last post here to sound bitchy against you or anything, just bringing up some points is all. :)

John

[Tango]

I want to believe the whole band doesn't know about this, but I do believe Mick does. I know their management does, as we have sent letters to them. We have confirmation that they have been received. If you want to personally make sure they know, by all means write to them.

The band plays on, no matter what. It's a major piece of money. Lindsey LEFT the band, and the band played on. Just before a tour. Mick's book came out, scathing several members of the band, particularly Lindsey, and the band played on. Members claimed they didn't read the book, and the band played on.

Is it possible the rest of the band has been isolated from Mick's latest venture by their managers? Well, you can take John's (wetcamelfood's) poll and weigh in on that part.

The managers know.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by sodascouts
BTW, JT, you set a PRECEDENT. You take precedence. Looks like someone makes mistakes in his e-mails!
And he had the nerve to suggest not giving us consideration due to a spelling mistake! Pah!

Pip

[glitter_fades]

David says a lot of things older fans probably know but don't want to say on these boards. I agree with his take on things. I always feel like the lone wolf when trying to explain to new fans (who've come on board since the Dance) that FM and Mick Fleetwood have done this kind of thing to fans for 5 decades.

This band always surrounds themselves with people of questionable character & intellegence. You'd think they'd have learned something by now, right? Well, they have. They've learned that there's money in letting creeps like this do the dirty work. If there's a backlash among fans or in the media, the band hides behind the notion they were out of the loop, out to lunch, on a drug binge, on tour, or whatever. I agree with John. If they don't know the depth of the situation, they should. These people are not stupid. They're not children. They're not supposed to be on drugs anymore. They have no excuses...unless it's a calculated business decision NOT to know.

Again, the managers have all been given documentation about the situation. MSNBC.com did a story about the fan club, for Pete's sake! Stevie's people are fully aware of what's going on. If they don't tell her, or she doesn't want to take it seriously, then THAT'S ON HER. I think she does care about fans, in a general sense. She runs hot and cold in this area, probably because she has some specific fans that deserve to be avoided. That doesn't excuse her ignoring the run of the mill fan. If her managment is contacted about something that could harm her public image, and they don't clue her in, they deserve to be fired, more so than the people she fired for forcing her into drug rehab. Where are the priorities?

Please don't think I'm a Stevie basher. I love Stevie. She lives in my community. She's done a lot of giving back here. She's loved by a lot of people for that reason. I just wish she'd wake up and realize she needs to go on with her life after her career is over. By ignoring ordinary fans like me, who've been trampled by mickfleetwood.com & fleetwoodmac.com, she's setting herself up for leaving people with a negative image. What a shame. All because of her loyalty to Mick and his money grubbing schemes. Sure she owes loyalty to Mick for a lot of reasons. I believe she owes some loyalty to fans who've kept her afloat all these years, with and without Mr. Fleetwood & the band.

[seeknpeace]

If they stay there and post there and continue to align themselves and kiss up to Jonathan Todd, Trinity and Jackie, you have no friends here.

Amen and I agree 100% Cour. I have had the displeasure to "meet" some few fans in the past who sit on fences and play both sides to get things and to try to not miss a morsel of info or free goods, but, the time has come. You need to take a stand.

[gypsygem81]

I say that someone who has decent seats for one of the gigs should hold up a big banner saying SACK THE TOAD!!

Love Gem

[Vianna]

If Mick hired JT then Mick is responsible, and it is to him that complaints should go.

As we older fans know, Mick sometimes has problems finding people of good character to work with-whoever for example helped him with that book would be a good example. Even if what he says went on did go on, the band's laundry shouldn't have been washed in public=:-)I am sure it sold books, though.

Mick also shows signs of having a spending money problem=:-)He always seems to need more $$$$ and is looking for ways to make it.

Also some of you know about how he mismanaged things when he was manager of the band-"Mick's missing millions"=:-)This fiasco is why the band members all have their own managers now. They decided not to let Mick be manager anymore.

Then there was the Fleetwood restaurant chain he was going to make millions off of...

The internet has made it so that it's easier for someone like this JT person to fleece people that's all.

I don't mean to bash Mick. None of us is perfect. He has held that band together through thick and thin, somehow or other. It's just that anything involving money he seems not to have a lot of judgment.

As to why I didn't join-maybe I would have if the tickets hadn't been so expensive to begin with. However I didn't see adding $60 to the price of the ticket just to get one.

[Tango]

Originally posted by Vianna
If Mick hired JT then Mick is responsible, and it is to him that complaints should go.

As we older fans know, Mick sometimes has problems finding people of good character to work with-whoever for example helped him with that book would be a good example. Even if what he says went on did go on, the band's laundry shouldn't have been washed in public=:-)I am sure it sold books, though.

Mick also shows signs of having a spending money problem=:-)He always seems to need more $$$$ and is looking for ways to make it.

Also some of you know about how he mismanaged things when he was manager of the band-"Mick's missing millions"=:-)This fiasco is why the band members all have their own managers now. They decided not to let Mick be manager anymore.

Then there was the Fleetwood restaurant chain he was going to make millions off of...

The internet has made it so that it's easier for someone like this JT person to fleece people that's all.

I don't mean to bash Mick. None of us is perfect. He has held that band together through thick and thin, somehow or other. It's just that anything involving money he seems not to have a lot of judgment.

As to why I didn't join-maybe I would have if the tickets hadn't been so expensive to begin with. However I didn't see adding $60 to the price of the ticket just to get one.

I do understand where you are coming from Vianna. I agree, no one is perfect yet, I am also acutely aware of Mick's business happenings. I also believe the bands individual managers probably figured early on, "well, this is Mick's mess, let him deal with it." The truth is, it's become a band issue, at least in terms of how fans are questioning the business practices of the band in this situation. I absolutely believe the other members of the band can generate the leverage to bring this to an "ending." But at this point, their main focus is the tour, as it ought to be. But the publicity for the fan club debacle is still rising. The rest of the band (or their management) could bring this to an end, and can make their voices heard so that it will never happen again. (And yet other fans have said there have been fan clubs before- but nothing quite as crazy as this "pay and get nothing" club.)

I wasn't going to join the fan club. That's what's really crazy. I have managed to get decent seats in the past, yet have resorted to using brokers when it was particularly important to me for concerts. I was also thinking this might be the last time this band gets out, and it wasn't going to be "enough" to see them once. It made sense to me that the band should profit from me, rather than ticket brokers, and the promises seemed real enough, and for the low low fee, the opportunity to get 4 tickets per venue, etc it all sounded great. (It wasn't!)



I'd really appreciate hearing why others DIDN'T join.

[Patti]

Tango, since you asked...I didn't join for a couple of reasons. First off, I have had some "real life" changes and $60 was just a lot of money I didn't really have. A good friend with whom I was attending the shows did join, so I relied on her to get the tickets. Secondly, something in my gut told me not to do it. Boy was my gut right.

Having said that, though, I was really feeling bad at first because I wouldn't have access to all that great "insider" content and considered joining several times. Still, I decided to hold off and see what the people who did join had to say. I really intended to join eventually. I even felt a bit guilty about not supporting "my" band.

Obviously, it turns out that it was a good thing that I didn't join. I really feel for those of you who did. You were taken. It's not right. Something needs to be done. Jonathan Todd needs to go.

Patti

[enibs78]

I am sick about how Jonathan Todd has mishandled the fan club and misrepresented the band, and how he has treated people like Pip and Louise.

I have also been to a couple of shows so far on the tour and have been blown away by how good the band is sounding, how great they're doing together. I don't want to do anything at this point that is going to start a fight between them.

According to at least one magazine article, Jonathan Todd is Mick's "friend and business partner." He produced Mick's Total Drumming project. Maybe this is one more example of Mick's questionable business judgment, but with that as background it's hard to see Mick firing him. And getting Stevie or Lindsey into the fray will not be good for the band.

Go with complaints to the California AG, to Warner Brothers, to the press and places like that. But PLEASE don't ask Stevie and Lindsey to be doing battle with Mick over this in the middle of the tour. I hope I don't get flamed for this, it's just the way I feel.

[Cour]

Originally posted by SaraRhiannon
I feel exactly the same way, Cour. Half of the people over there are CHOOSING to remain ignorant about everything, and the other half just don't care. The other night I posted about 15 different messages there with links to this thread. The PMs and responses I got were to the effect of "go back to the Ledge, we don't care about what you have to say, this is OUR board, etc. etc." THEY are the ones making this an "us vs. them" situation when it need not be. The fan club/Todd problems have been ongoing for months now. The facts are out there. They've had every chance to educate themselves, and are choosing to remain ignorant (hoping that they'll also be deemed "safe" and then receive perks like the two sellouts Jackie and Trinity did? Perhaps.) Whatever the reason, it doesn't really matter to me. I don't want any part of them when the **** hits the fan, the Mick board and fanclub are no longer here, and they're forced to come to the Ledge and to the other boards. I won't welcome them.


It seems that the people who post share the same double standards as their leader, Mr Todd.


Someone who posted pics from her show had them stolen and I think they're being sold on Ebay. Everyone on that board is so appalled and feels so badly for the girl. While I am sorry her photos were lifted and are being sold, is this any different than Jonathan Todd STEALING the ENTIRE Penguin Discography? He stole the photos of the albums and ALL of the stats that Marty has been collecting and updating for years. Why weren't those people appalled about that? Why didn't they post to Mr Todd that he was wrong to steal the Peguin discography? While I feel badly that the girl's photos were stolen, why the double standard?


I guess it's alright for their mighty leader to steal from fan sites and cheat fans with the scam of the fanclub, but when one of them has some photos taken, from an internet message board, watch out..it's a huge crime!


Why didn't the pack of rabid dogs jump allover her the way they jumped all over anyone who complained about the fanclub. Why didn't they tell her and the people there who supported her.....


"THERE WERE NO GUARANTEES someone wouldn't steal your photos if you posted them on a message board!!!"


"You should have known this could happen if you posted your pictures on the internet, you should just be grateful you got to see the show, starving children won't get to see Fleetwood Mac and you did!"


"I would have been happy to have the photos and have seen the show, why are you whining that someone took them! You can still look at them, they're not gone forever (unlike our concert seats!)"


As far as I'm concerned, the people who stay on that board and condone what was done to this community by Joanthan Todd cannot expect to come back to the fan sites when Jonathan Todd's sites are closed. They can condone anything Jonathan Todd does to their fellow FM fans, but when some pictures are lifted, all of a sudden it's a crime and the person who stole them should be put in jail. Strange sense of justice, but they're definitely birds of a feather. and they belong together.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by Cour
Someone who posted pics from her show had them stolen and I think they're being sold on Ebay. Everyone on that board is so appalled and feels so badly for the girl. While I am sorry her photos were lifted and are being sold, is this any different than Jonathan Todd STEALING the ENTIRE Penguin Discography? He stole the photos of the albums and ALL of the stats that Marty has been collecting and updating for years. Why weren't those people appalled about that? Why didn't they post to Mr Todd that he was wrong to steal the Peguin discography? While I feel badly that the girl's photos were stolen, why the double standard?

I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.

You mean it's not true anyone tried to sell them on Ebay? That all of this furor is simply over your posting of them on Yahoo? I guess they had to make it sound worse so they didn't look petty when they took the photos down.

[gypsygem81]

Originally posted by sodascouts
You mean it's not true anyone tried to sell them on Ebay? That all of this furor is simply over your posting of them on Yahoo? I guess they had to make it sound worse so they didn't look petty when they took the photos down.

Well, I emailed her to ask her for permisson to post them on my site and she said that she wasn't allowing anybody to have them because they had been taken from her and tried to be sold. She didn't mention e-bay though, so I don't know where they were being sold.

Love Gem

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by sodascouts
You mean it's not true anyone tried to sell them on Ebay? That all of this furor is simply over your posting of them on Yahoo? I guess they had to make it sound worse so they didn't look petty when they took the photos down.
Well all I can say is that she is pretty naive if she thinks people aren't going to right click and save the pictures... I would guarantee even the people coming out in sympathy have done so.

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Cour
It seems that the people who post share the same double standards as their leader, Mr Todd.


Someone who posted pics from her show had them stolen and I think they're being sold on Ebay. Everyone on that board is so appalled and feels so badly for the girl. While I am sorry her photos were lifted and are being sold, is this any different than Jonathan Todd STEALING the ENTIRE Penguin Discography? He stole the photos of the albums and ALL of the stats that Marty has been collecting and updating for years. Why weren't those people appalled about that? Why didn't they post to Mr Todd that he was wrong to steal the Peguin discography? While I feel badly that the girl's photos were stolen, why the double standard?


I guess it's alright for their mighty leader to steal from fan sites and cheat fans with the scam of the fanclub, but when one of them has some photos taken, from an internet message board, watch out..it's a huge crime!


Why didn't the pack of rabid dogs jump allover her the way they jumped all over anyone who complained about the fanclub. Why didn't they tell her and the people there who supported her.....


"THERE WERE NO GUARANTEES someone wouldn't steal your photos if you posted them on a message board!!!"


"You should have known this could happen if you posted your pictures on the internet, you should just be grateful you got to see the show, starving children won't get to see Fleetwood Mac and you did!"


"I would have been happy to have the photos and have seen the show, why are you whining that someone took them! You can still look at them, they're not gone forever (unlike our concert seats!)"


As far as I'm concerned, the people who stay on that board and condone what was done to this community by Joanthan Todd cannot expect to come back to the fan sites when Jonathan Todd's sites are closed. They can condone anything Jonathan Todd does to their fellow FM fans, but when some pictures are lifted, all of a sudden it's a crime and the person who stole them should be put in jail. Strange sense of justice, but they're definitely birds of a feather. and they belong together.
This totally sums it up really... a lot of the people over there choose to ignore what is going on concerning Todd.... to them it isn't important. Poor misguided fools

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.
Well it is quite clear that they didn't want the 'banned' folks to see them. I wonder if any of these people have taken time to read this thread when they come over here to check out what is being said

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by glitter_fades

If they don't know the depth of the situation, they should. These people are not stupid. They're not children. They're not supposed to be on drugs anymore. They have no excuses...unless it's a calculated business decision NOT to know.

Again, the managers have all been given documentation about the situation. If her managment is contacted about something that could harm her public image, and they don't clue her in, they deserve to be fired, more so than the people she fired for forcing her into drug rehab. Where are the priorities?



The fact is that managers are there to handle their business affairs.....with regard to any controvercial info that may be given to the managers it is at the managers discretion that decide to pass on the info or not for the most part managers HANDLE EVERYTHING......IF it is going to damage their image that will not be down to the managers but down to the PR person to handle the fallout. The individual 'star' involved will be informed on a need to know basis until that time they pretty much live in ignorance. If they don't NEED to know then they won't be told.
If there is nothing to report that MANAGERS get paid to handle then they will not be told. That is what MANAGERS do they manage EVERYTHING.

I KNOW how difficult it was to get through to Stevie's management on a situation that she was personally involved with and all I needed to have was a yes or no answer....it took 5 MONTHS.....

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by enibs78
I am sick about how Jonathan Todd has mishandled the fan club and misrepresented the band, and how he has treated people like Pip and Louise.

I have also been to a couple of shows so far on the tour and have been blown away by how good the band is sounding, how great they're doing together. I don't want to do anything at this point that is going to start a fight between them.

According to at least one magazine article, Jonathan Todd is Mick's "friend and business partner." He produced Mick's Total Drumming project. Maybe this is one more example of Mick's questionable business judgment, but with that as background it's hard to see Mick firing him. And getting Stevie or Lindsey into the fray will not be good for the band.

Go with complaints to the California AG, to Warner Brothers, to the press and places like that. But PLEASE don't ask Stevie and Lindsey to be doing battle with Mick over this in the middle of the tour. I hope I don't get flamed for this, it's just the way I feel.

No flames, just some points I thought of I'd like to make about this. :)

I just don't think that it would be THAT "upsetting" to SN & LB if they were "made aware" of this during the tour as it's often been stated that they have been "through so much already" in the past so this shouldn't be any different than those other times.

Like Vianna said, no one is perfect, but I personally don't think Stevie & Lindsey are as sweet, innocent and angelic as some people may think they are (I don't mean YOU enibs, I just mean the general public or whoever :) ) For instance, I mean, you (meaning everyone) don't REALLY believe Stevie when she clings on to her "explanations" of why she got in to drugs in the first place of "no one told us it was bad for us" do you? No one ever told me that swallowing broken glass was bad for me either but not being told this didn't make me ever want to do it.

If it was to be that upsetting to them then maybe they shouldn't be in the business, it's like the old expression "if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen". We all have to deal with things that are upsetting to us in our everyday lives while we are trying to concentrate on other things AND we handle it ourselves and don't have "managers" to handle things like this for us so that in itself shouldn't be an issue as stated earlier, they're not children and have to realize that if they're going to be in a BAND then all that comes under it's name INCLUDES them at ALL times in which they are in it, they can't be in it at selected times of convenience. For instance, if you're at work and your boss says to you "oh this person you work with is swamped with stuff that needs to be attended to, can you help them out for the rest of the day?" As much as you may want to keep to the things you want to deal with, you can't say to your boss "well, no, that's their mess, let them deal with it". Just a thought. :)

Also, (and I'm sorry to keep going in to this angle of things but it was something I thought of a little while ago) it's been cited that Tom Petty is someone who really cares about his fans and takes care of them via his fan club etc. SO, you'd think since both SN & LB both seem to be close with Tom now (if nothing else according to appearances they have made on TP albums over the years, her in the 80's and he in the 90's) that if she/they REALLY DID CARE about her/their fans, then all she'd/they'd have to do is meet with/call TP and say "Look we know you have a good system with your fan club set up and we care about our fans so can you advise me/us on how to put it together to make sure it's run right, they get value for money, areas/stumbling blocks to watch out for (etc.)? As long as she/they listen(s) to what he has to say to her/them then any fan club they would "care about" would be built up the same way as his, he might not even have to say anything except putting SN/LB in contact with the "clean" people that run his one (that is, if they can run another one at the same time and if they don't have the resources to run a FM themselves then he could've set them up with more "clean people" or at least given them advice as suggested above. However, their "silence" on this should say something and if they really don't know what's going on about this then that should show that they don't care about their fans as much as it may seem as if they did really want to know what their fans thought etc. then they could check around the web (or hire someone "clean" to do it for them) while they are waiting in their hotel rooms for their next appearance as suggested by me before. I know the on line fan base is only a small portion of the fans etc. but they can't have their heads in the sand THAT far to not know in this day and age how important a factor the internet is for fan bases and if nothing else, it would be a quick (if they're SO busy) easy way to get a general overview of what's going on and would at least give them a grain of what life is like for a FM fan (as I say this is all assuming they care that much about their fanbase) and it may also open their eyes as to how inferior the official sites are to sites like The Penguin and if they really wanted to give the fans "value for money" then you'd think the'd say to their "webmasters"... "Can we add (this) and how about (this)" as another big assumption that was made by JT was that he decided that every fan wanted a "flashy site with no content" when, though some may want that, I'm sure most of us would've preferred it to be less flashy if that meant we got more content instead right? :)

Like I've said, I think they may release a statement AFTER the tour/project is over and THEN say "oh gee sorry" to try to make it look good but what good will a statement at that time do anyone? (and that's assuming there'll be a statement at all).

Anyways, just some thoughts I had on this and I just wanted to chuck them in to the mix is all. :)

John

[Bella Figura]

Hi Cour, I corrected my post!! :)

No problem, you are perfectly right in having yourself quoted correctly...I think this has happened to you more than once so please accept my apologies.

I explained in my first post on this thread that I have been a longtime member of the Ledge and found that the only way messageboards to really work is to welcome all, respect all, quickly correct yourself when you are wrong and argue your position with passion and intelligence.

[Cour]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I copied her photos and put them on Yahoo Photos for people who had been banned to see them, they were good photos. I DID NOT sell the photos or put them on Ebay. She emailed me to take them down and she complained to yahoo about copyright infringement. I also was told my golddustwoman (I think it was) to take them down, that this lady was an attorney and would get in touch with yahoo. I took them down as soon as I read her email and I will NEVER post anyone's photos for others to see EVER again. I've learned my lesson about being nice.



It's that odd view of justice and right and wrong that keeps cropping up with Jonathan Todd and his administrators.

Do you suppose Jackie contacts the owners of those "photos of the week" she posts and gets permission to use them? I don't! I know one week they posted a picture that was taken from the Penguin because Marty had altered it with something. I wonder why the whole issue of copyright is a one way street and they're always threatening people with lawsuits when they are the ones who are constantly trampling on everyone else!


I wonder how Mr. Todd's lawyer would advise him if someone had a copy of every single version of his fanclub agreement. Do you suppose it's his lawyer who's telling him to change it without making any notation of the changes? I doubt it.


Christy, I have no doubt that almost every single one of the people who post there have at least ONE picture of FM on their hard drive that they never got permission to "take". I'd also be willing to bet that many of them took things from the Penguin and other fan sites and never even thought to ask for permission. They all seem to enjoy visiting the fan sites and enjoying their content, but don't ask them to share a darn thing with anyone else. Cry FOUL and THEIF to anyone who tries to let other fans enjoy something they have.


Maybe once the BBB, AGO and FBI teaches Mr. Todd about the law, he won't be so fast to abuse it himself.

[gypsysara]

While I can understand a person wanting to protect their business & interests by "checking out" a potential business-partner - there is NO excuse for JT to verbally slay Pip, Louise & the rest of the Fireflies UK. Some of his BS is unfounded, obviously - I mean they reinstated Pip. And some of it is downright IMMORAL. Come on, add it to the "cart"??? Like the common layperson doesnt know that means MONEY? How does JT feel about taking MONEY from a NON-PROFIT? He reminds me of the chairity CEO's you hear about that skim $$$ off the top. No care or consideration to those who need help. And FFlies UK didnt need "help" per sey, just a link - suggestion - or banner. How HARD is that?

Im so sorry this happened to you guys, and THANK YOU for OPENING OUR EYES!

JT you should be ASHAMED of yourself! And SHAME on your GRAMMAR ERRORS TOO!

[gypsysara]

I just registered over at Mick's board so I could read their agreement, and just get cozy over there while I read to my heart's content.

The agreement was rather long and lengthy:


Welcome to Mick's Chat! We're sorry to make you read through all this legal stuff, but it is really important and very serious!

IMPORTANT: YOU MUST BE AT LEAST 18 YEARS OLD TO REGISTER AND VIEW THIS AREA OF THE SITE. BY CLICKING SUBMIT YOU AFFIRM THAT YOU ARE 18 OR OLDER.

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law. By participating on this forum you agree to abide by all the rules and regulations listed here, and any laws that apply to you based on your country and residence. Violation of the rules of this forum may lead to legal actions taken against you. You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also not allowed in Mick's Chat.

Note that it is impossible for us to confirm the validity of posts on Mick's Chat. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the posted messages and are not responsible for their content. We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any information presented. The messages express the views of the author, not necessarily the views of Mick's Chat. Anyone who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to notify an administrator of this forum immediately. We have the rights to remove objectionable content, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately. This policy goes for member profile information as well.

You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this forum, its owners, managers, employees and affiliates and any related websites to this forum, and you agree to pay reasonable attorneys' fees for such a defense. We at this Mick's Chat forum also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or any information we have about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any information posted by you.

You have the ability, as you register, to choose your username. We advise that you keep the name appropriate. With this user account you are about to register, you agree to never give your password out to another member, for your protection and for validity reasons. You also agree to NEVER use another member's account to post messages or browse this forum.

After you register and log into this Mick's Chat forum, you can fill out a detailed profile. It is your responsibility to present clean and accurate information. Any information we deem inaccurate or vulgar will be removed.

Please note that with each post, your IP address is recorded, in the event that you need to be banned from Mick's Chat or your ISP contacted. This will only happen in the event of a major violation of this agreement.

I CERTIFY I AM 18 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER AND THAT I AGREE TO THE RULES SET FORTH ABOVE AND TO THE CONSEQUENCES FOR VIOLATION OF THESE RULES

==========

Now I notice the rules say stuff about
pyramid schemes ~ I wonder how the Egyptian Jewlery fits into that??

I did notice the Admins posting weekly photos submitted by users like you and me. Funny how they broke their own rule as per the above:

You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material.

They blatantly break that rule by posting photos other people took without their consent or permission. I then posted this response on their "board" (first post, arent you all proud? puullleeaseee)...

========

Not to sound like a thorn, but I was curious re: the weekly photos. When I signed up here, the notice told me:

You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material.

Even though someone submits a photo to the Administrator, it doesnt necessarily mean they were the photo taker or had the permission of the photo taker. Wouldnt that mean you are breaking your own rules?

Just seems funny to me, when Ive seen a lot on this board regarding photos, taking of photos, copyrighting photos... that the Administrators are breaking their own rules. Just my $0.02...

=========

:laugh: :laugh: I wonder how long it will take till Im "deemed": false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law.

[wondergirl9847]

I don't understand how one can SELL photos of photos on the net!!!??! I didn't take her negatives or anything from her home for gosh sakes!! I merely saved them and put them up for others to look at. Whoever is "selling" these must be a clever person and has figured out how to make really good photos to print to sell to others. :rolleyes:

[gypsysara]

Well Ledgies, didnt take good ol troublemaker ME long to get "banned" from Mick's website. I wonder if my message was deleted too? I was GypsySara over yonder as well.

Funny, cause I wasnt "warned" or anything.

They just must not like me, but likely are spying around here as well. :laugh: :laugh:

Help me, please - did I truly and really say something THAT BAD???

[gypsysara]

Nevermind... I figured it out. Im "sexually oriented" and THATS what got me banned! LMAO!!! :laugh: :laugh: ;)

[gypsysara]

Uno mas comment from me...

Funny how they convientley "ban" you so you cant even find an email address to write said "administrators" to figure out what the hell happened!

Well Im going to log on at home tonight, with my HOME IP address (which wont be "blocked"), to see what their emails are and to ask what the hell they think they are doing banning me for asking one lame question.

What a bunch of asses over there! Seriously!

Bravo to Marty for endorsing FREE SPEECH!

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Well Ledgies, didnt take good ol troublemaker ME long to get "banned" from Mick's website. I wonder if my message was deleted too? I was GypsySara over yonder as well.

Funny, cause I wasnt "warned" or anything.

They just must not like me, but likely are spying around here as well. :laugh: :laugh:

Help me, please - did I truly and really say something THAT BAD???

I don't know of them ever warning anyone...just smacking em down, like Knight told them to. Once you are on the proverbial sh*t list, you cannot say anything at all. You could be mean one time and clean your act up, but, if it was something that one of the fearless did not like, even though it does not break the law over there, you are OUT....hahahahaha...ty and goodnite.

The only time that I had any correspondence was when I asked why I was banned, which I discovered later was due only to the glitch in the system, but, I asked the mighty one and that caused him to look into my posts and saw that I was using a pic of him as my avatar and that was it. If I said it was day when it was nite, I was banned...

[enibs78]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
No flames, just some points I thought of I'd like to make about this. :)

I just don't think that it would be THAT "upsetting" to SN & LB if they were "made aware" of this during the tour as it's often been stated that they have been "through so much already" in the past so this shouldn't be any different than those other times.

Like Vianna said, no one is perfect, but I personally don't think Stevie & Lindsey are as sweet, innocent and angelic as some people may think they are (I don't mean YOU enibs, I just mean the general public or whoever :) ) For instance, I mean, you (meaning everyone) don't REALLY believe Stevie when she clings on to her "explanations" of why she got in to drugs in the first place of "no one told us it was bad for us" do you? No one ever told me that swallowing broken glass was bad for me either but not being told this didn't make me ever want to do it.

If it was to be that upsetting to them then maybe they shouldn't be in the business, it's like the old expression "if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen". We all have to deal with things that are upsetting to us in our everyday lives while we are trying to concentrate on other things AND we handle it ourselves and don't have "managers" to handle things like this for us so that in itself shouldn't be an issue as stated earlier, they're not children and have to realize that if they're going to be in a BAND then all that comes under it's name INCLUDES them at ALL times in which they are in it, they can't be in it at selected times of convenience.
John

I know I didn't quote your whole post, but I just wanted to respond to a couple of points. I don't think that Stevie and Lindsey are all sweet, innocent and angelic, but I also don't think they had anything to do with hiring JT. I think they left that to Mick, and he picked his "friend and business partner." (It reminds me of the line in Animal House when John Belushi says, "You f*cked up, you trusted me!")

And it's not that I'm so worried about "upsetting" Stevie and Lindsey as much as I'm worried about creating a fight between them and Mick. Even if Stevie and Lindsey knew what was going on, I don't think they could fire JT without Mick's agreement, and I don't see that happening, so it would just create a big fight. Maybe better just to let the government authorities investigate and keep publicizing the problems, but not try to drag Stevie and Lindsey into a fight with Mick in the middle of the tour.

[gldstwmn]

I'm thinking Lindsey and Stevie have very little choice in the matter right now. As far as McVie goes, he just wants to play bass. Not that it's right or wrong, that's just the way it is. Can you see the respective managers going at it over this in the middle of the tour? Nope, they've got to count the money. I do think it'll come around though.

[gypsygem81]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Uno mas comment from me...

Funny how they convientley "ban" you so you cant even find an email address to write said "administrators" to figure out what the hell happened!

Well Im going to log on at home tonight, with my HOME IP address (which wont be "blocked"), to see what their emails are and to ask what the hell they think they are doing banning me for asking one lame question.

What a bunch of asses over there! Seriously!

Bravo to Marty for endorsing FREE SPEECH!

Hi Sara

Did you have to say anything to get banned or did they just ban you because they knew your IP address and that you were banned before? If so, what did you say, and did it get deleted straight away?
I am thinking of logging in and saying something soon. How many people do they have to have banned before they do something about this??!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by gypsygem81
Hi Sara

Did you have to say anything to get banned or did they just ban you because they knew your IP address and that you were banned before? If so, what did you say, and did it get deleted straight away?
I am thinking of logging in and saying something soon. How many people do they have to have banned before they do something about this??!
They are clearly reading this thread. That's why Sara was banned. It was a simple question that deserved an answer but to them it was just easier to delete and ban. It really is pathetic... that board is just a big joke really. Oh and Sir Knight.... I'm sure you are reading this.... your day will come. What goes around comes around and you will not get away with screwing the fans.

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

BTW.... I know of someone who joined up and didn't even post. She PM'd Jackie and Trinity to ask if they had read this thread. She was promptly banned

Pip

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by enibs78
I also don't think they had anything to do with hiring JT. I think they left that to Mick, and he picked his "friend and business partner." (It reminds me of the line in Animal House when John Belushi says, "You f*cked up, you trusted me!")

Hi Enibs :) Just commenting on a few of your comments too:

Well, this may very well be, but what I was saying before about they maybe SHOULD'VE been more involved as to the idea of "if you're going to be in a BAND, you should all get involved as much as the others, no prima donnas" would apply here. I'm not saying BN are PD's, I just mean a band SHOULD be about "equality" whether it be business or pleasure aspects of it, unfortunately FM doesn't seem to operate that way but it may be due more to MF's dictatorial (sp?) handlings of the band more than anything else, eh, who knows though? :)

Oh BTW, HA! Yeah, "Animal house" is a great flick! :)

Originally posted by enibs78
And it's not that I'm so worried about "upsetting" Stevie and Lindsey as much as I'm worried about creating a fight between them and Mick. Even if Stevie and Lindsey knew what was going on, I don't think they could fire JT without Mick's agreement, and I don't see that happening, so it would just create a big fight. Maybe better just to let the government authorities investigate and keep publicizing the problems, but not try to drag Stevie and Lindsey into a fight with Mick in the middle of the tour.

Well, I'd have to agree with what someone else said earlier about how SN & LB's managers would have just as much clout as Mick's does/may have (maybe even more) and it must be pretty obvious to everyone now that Mick is just kissing SN & LB's asses to get them to stay in the band since he only cares about "commercially successful" FM lineups now, I don't think he'd put up much in the way of a fight if SN & LB's managers were to step in and say "JT needs to be replaced" or "we gotta end the Fan Club", he'd just be a big sheep about it and say "oh sure whatever you guys say, OK, OK" but maybe not, we'll see anyways like you say if the governmental agencies can do anything about all of this first. :)

John

[Tango]

enibs78, you mentioned being worried about Stevie and Lindsey getting angry at Mick if they found out about the club fiasco. wetcamelfood is considering what would be best, the managers taking charge of this mess, or letting the governmental agencies stepping in.

Don't you think Lindsey and Stevie would prefer to hear about this before a governmental agency steps in or before they hear about it on the news, or get asked about it at a press junket?

Would you rather hear about your wife crashing the car from her, or reading about it on the evening news, or having a lawyer come knocking at your door?

Jonathan Todd is probably saying, "Don't worry about anything, Mr. Stubner. I've got it under control. I've banned the 'trouble makers from posting.'" Rather than deal with the issues that have caused the wrath of so many fan club members, he figured he could just "silence them." And sadly, it seems he's incorporated two fans to help join in the alliance. The fans will not be silenced. They would love to silence the fans here, too.

Do they even remember why fans became angry? There was a cause and effect. It didn't just happen.

[CarneVaca]

I'm sure the government agencies that have been working hard at ignoring the Enron, Worldcom, Tyco and Imclone scandals, which resulted in screwing countless people out of millions in investments, can't wait to get their hands on Jonathan Todd.

[gypsysara]

Well Im still :laugh: laughing :laugh: pretty hard about Mick's BBS. What a joke. They banned me AND deleted my post. Very convienent of Golddustwoman to do that. Ironically, I notice that GOLDDUSTWOMAN is using a COPYRIGHTED photo as her "AVATAR" - a photo taken by none other than our JOHN KINNEY at the Nicksfix.com. Its on the nicksfix, you can see it if you go to "photos" then at the very end "Photos taken by JK early days" its the upper L corner, first photo. Wonder how they FEEL - HYPOCRITES! Breaking their OWN RULES. Hell, they are HOSTILE to the general public for being such conniving people. Jeezus... Id never ever want a fan board of mine to be run in such a manner (so you all know, you know, when I make it big and Im famous hahaha NOT)...

Gem, I posted what I put on Mick's board in that long post above, its separated by ====='s. I just asked basically werent the admins breaking their own "rules" by posting copyrighted material that wasnt their own / w-out permission. What a load of CRAP that place is!

Ok ~ well have a good day you all! :wavey:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Well Im still :laugh: laughing :laugh: pretty hard about Mick's BBS. What a joke. They banned me AND deleted my post. Very convienent of Golddustwoman to do that. Ironically, I notice that GOLDDUSTWOMAN is using a COPYRIGHTED photo as her "AVATAR" - a photo taken by none other than our JOHN KINNEY at the Nicksfix.com. Its on the nicksfix, you can see it if you go to "photos" then at the very end "Photos taken by JK early days" its the upper L corner, first photo. Wonder how they FEEL - HYPOCRITES! Breaking their OWN RULES.

That is a very interesting point

Pip

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Bump.... in case anyone missed this

[seeknpeace]

Ironically, I notice that GOLDDUSTWOMAN is using a COPYRIGHTED photo as her "AVATAR" - a photo taken by none other than our JOHN KINNEY at the Nicksfix.com.

BUT when I used JT as my avatar, he told me that I could not as it was copyrighted...well, so what? It was and is a site where they pick and choose how to apply the rules.

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by Tango
enibs78, you mentioned being worried about Stevie and Lindsey getting angry at Mick if they found out about the club fiasco. wetcamelfood is considering what would be best, the managers taking charge of this mess, or letting the governmental agencies stepping in.

Don't you think Lindsey and Stevie would prefer to hear about this before a governmental agency steps in or before they hear about it on the news, or get asked about it at a press junket?

Would you rather hear about your wife crashing the car from her, or reading about it on the evening news, or having a lawyer come knocking at your door?

Jonathan Todd is probably saying, "Don't worry about anything, Mr. Stubner. I've got it under control. I've banned the 'trouble makers from posting.'" Rather than deal with the issues that have caused the wrath of so many fan club members, he figured he could just "silence them." And sadly, it seems he's incorporated two fans to help join in the alliance. The fans will not be silenced. They would love to silence the fans here, too.

Do they even remember why fans became angry? There was a cause and effect. It didn't just happen.

Well said. My thoughts exactly!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

bump

[David]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Well, I'd have to agree with what someone else said earlier about how SN & LB's managers would have just as much clout as Mick's does/may have (maybe even more) and it must be pretty obvious to everyone now that Mick is just kissing SN & LB's asses to get them to stay in the band since he only cares about "commercially successful" FM lineups now, I don't think he'd put up much in the way of a fight if SN & LB's managers were to step in and say "JT needs to be replaced" or "we gotta end the Fan Club", he'd just be a big sheep about it I just had a terrible thought.

What if Lindsey & Stevie leave the band & Mick hires Jonathan Todd on lead guitar & vocal?

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by David
I just had a terrible thought.

What if Lindsey & Stevie leave the band & Mick hires Jonathan Todd on lead guitar & vocal?

OMG Mr. Dave perish the thought!!! NO NO NO....:distress:

[gypsysara]

Originally posted by David
I just had a terrible thought.

What if Lindsey & Stevie leave the band & Mick hires Jonathan Todd on lead guitar & vocal?

If that DID happen alls Id sing would be:

WHAT'S THE WORLD COMING TO???

[SaraRhiannon]

Originally posted by David
I just had a terrible thought.

What if Lindsey & Stevie leave the band & Mick hires Jonathan Todd on lead guitar & vocal?


And possibly even more frightening... what if they hired his WIFE as well?? The new Buckingham Nicks!! :eek:

[Tango]

Originally posted by SaraRhiannon
And possibly even more frightening... what if they hired his WIFE as well?? The new Buckingham Nicks!! :eek:

Sara, I just wanted to say I love the new picture. LOL! Keep 'em coming. Thank you!

[Gypsy]

Bumpety-bumpety-bump.

(From your friendly NY gitana, the ever-present lurker, heh heh.)
;)

Cheerio

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by David
I just had a terrible thought.

What if Lindsey & Stevie leave the band & Mick hires Jonathan Todd on lead guitar & vocal?

If he starts strumming the guitar with both hands and takes to spinning in platform boots and BlackDress, I think sales might just go down.

Actually, I would pay to go see him whether he's in the band or not, as long as I could bring tomatoes and eggs.

- Jake

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by SaraRhiannon
And possibly even more frightening... what if they hired his WIFE as well?? The new Buckingham Nicks!! :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[glitter_fades]

Thanks! :wavey:

[watchdevil]

Originally posted by David
I just had a terrible thought.

What if Lindsey & Stevie leave the band & Mick hires Jonathan Todd on lead guitar & vocal?


I think if that happened Christine would come out of retirement just to throw a glass of wine in JT's face...

[Gypsy]

Christine's quote from RS '97 about how she reacted when Lindsey mocked Stevie onstage...wish she were around to do the same to JT, the reasons are the same:
"I think he's the only person I ever, ever slapped," says Christine McVie. "I actually might have chucked a glass of wine, too.
I just didn't think it was the way to treat a paying audience.
Really unprofessional, over the top."

[highpriestess53]

just making sure this is read by all unsuspecting fans...especially those migrating from THAT BOARD!!

[glitter_fades]

I'd like to hear a certain someone give an explanation why some people who post at Mick's site are allowed to put links to their commerical, money making websites at Micks's Chat, and others aren't.

Remember when Knight himself posted a link to the Sararhiannon.com site for sound files without Sara's permission? Then when Sara started asking too many questions about the fan club he told her she had to remove HER links to her site from her signatuare?

I haven't been there in a long time, but I remember certain fans being allowed to link to their sites in posts they made. Is that still allowed?

Some of these fans were selling FM crap, and I mean crap, some of it questionable as to creation and authorization to sell. Anyway, after reading how JT says in his email on the NON-PROFIT UK Mac convention, something about putting them "in the cart" ... does that mean everybody with links on the "offical" site and chat board are paying fees or giving a cut to the band...or giving a cut to JT? Who is getting the proceeds of "the cart"? Anyone else wonder about this?

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by glitter_fades
Some of these fans were selling FM crap, and I mean crap, some of it questionable as to creation and authorization to sell. Anyway, after reading how JT says in his email on the NON-PROFIT UK Mac convention, something about putting them "in the cart" ... does that mean everybody with links on the "offical" site and chat board are paying fees or giving a cut to the band...or giving a cut to JT? Who is getting the proceeds of "the cart"? Anyone else wonder about this?

'THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!'

JONATHAN TODD LINING HIS POCKETS...LETS FACE IT HE HAS GOT A LICENSE TO PRINT MONEY ON THE BACK OF THE FLEETWOOD MAC NAME .....THE MAC WILL GET A 'ROYALTY'

[jools]

Hi everyone,

After seeing Jonathon the Toads email address, i decided to email him with a few queries about my banning and a few other matters.

I doubt i will ever get a response, but i will let you know what happens

:rolleyes: :shrug:

Julian

[msLinds]

Bump again.

:wavey: :laugh: :nod: :cool:

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by jools
Hi everyone,

After seeing Jonathon the Toads email address, i decided to email him with a few queries about my banning and a few other matters.

I doubt i will ever get a response, but i will let you know what happens

:rolleyes: :shrug:

Julian

I hope you do Julian, but I get the feeling if he gets an e mail which isn't about him earning money, he won't answer it (like you say). Hopefully though, sorry, I just couldn't resist the joke. :)

John

[msLinds]

Bump again.


:wavey: :wavey: :nod: :nod: :laugh: :D

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by jools
Hi everyone,

After seeing Jonathon the Toads email address, i decided to email him with a few queries about my banning and a few other matters.

I doubt i will ever get a response, but i will let you know what happens

:rolleyes: :shrug:

Julian
Replying to emails is not his strong point

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by highpriestess53
From: "Louise J Beard"

This is my statement about the events that lead upto the volley of
e-mails sent between myself and Mr. Jonathan Todd of Sabremark Inc.administrators of MickFleetwood.com and FleetwoodMac.com and a subsequent telephone conversation.

After many months of intermittent dialogue between myself and Mr. Blain Clausen of Immortal, management company in charge of the affairs of Mick Fleetwood, it was decided that due to the workload concerning Fleetwood Mac they were unable to help with a UK fan convention. This lead to Mr. Clausen recommending that I contact Mr Jonathan Todd about mentioning the
convention on the 'Official' website FleetwoodMac.com.

The subsequent reply was addressed to Mr. BlainClausen and sent to me in error by Mr. Jonathan Todd.
Mr. Todd on two occasions tried to re-call the message.
Now knowing he, Mr. Todd, had made this grave error, sent me an email explaining that the e-mail had been played around with by one of his workers.

At this point Iwas still acting in the interest of the convention and
tried to remain polite and asked if Mr. Todd could put up the convention information on FleetwoodMac.com.

On Saturday 26th April 2003 at 7pm UK time I received a phone call from Mr. Todd though I had NOT given him my phone number (on Monday 28th April I called Mr Blain Clausen and he notified me that he had given Mr.Todd my phone number not realising the reason for Mr. Todd calling me other than a 'collaboration between fanclubs')

Mr Toddmade mention of the e-mail and apologised for my receiving it in error but NOT for the content. I said I was shocked that this was the attitude taken by him.

After Mr.Todd made this'apology', his first issue was to slander Pip
Fidler saying that she had gone ballistic on the message board and suggested strongly that she was a troublemaker.

I kept things polite and we chatted, the conversation turned to the convention. It was then that Mr. Todd suggested we postpone the convention and try to do it on the back of a European tour, in which case he could help us out.

The conversation turned gradually to me,Mr Toddmade an offer for me to become European 'correspondent' for the FleetwoodMac.com board under the new forum heading European Happenings in exchange for 'privileges' for
the convention. He made mention the two MickFleetwood.com'fan
moderators' ("Trinity and Jackie")who had been deemed 'safe' by acting in the interest of MickFleetwood.com for some time and the privileges that they had received, ie tickets and flights to attend the Fleetwood Mac Family and Friends concert performances. Mr Todd explained that I had to be deemed safe before these privileges were extended and that he could also by-pass management to do so.

To keep things open I said I would give Mr Todd's comments some thought and the call ended.

After the conversation was terminated, my immediate reaction was that Mr. Todd had offered me a bribe to make good for his error and to placate me with a 'position' so that I could make gain for myself and the convention.

Mr. Todd next email says he is awaiting confirmation about my submitting a regular column on European Happenings I find this quite astounding as I had NEVER agreed to do anything of the sort. Another thing is that I by my own admission am not in the thick of all things Fleetwood Mac and thus would not be the right candidate to fill this 'position'. Thus I made my reply short and sharp.

Again, even after my brusque reply, Mr. Todd sees fit to open the
position to further dialogue to which I have sent no reply.

Louise

After re-reading this important thread, I just realized I never gave you a well deserved...YOU ROCK LOUISE!...for rejecting the "offers" Mr. Todd made you. I know he tried to work Pip over after the first ticket sale debaucle, and she didn't go for it either. Can I also say...ALL UK FANS ROCK THE MAC WORLD! They are being very negligent not planning and announcing dates in the UK even with the unofficial leaks of new US dates. I'm sorry for you guys. I know how much trouble and expense you went to coming over for the TISL shows.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by glitter_fades
After re-reading this important thread, I just realized I never gave you a well deserved...YOU ROCK LOUISE!...for rejecting the "offers" Mr. Todd made you. I know he tried to work Pip over after the first ticket sale debaucle, and she didn't go for it either. Can I also say...ALL UK FANS ROCK THE MAC WORLD! They are being very negligent not planning and announcing dates in the UK even with the unofficial leaks of new US dates. I'm sorry for you guys. I know how much trouble and expense you went to coming over for the TISL shows.
Thanks for saying that and I know that Louise will appreciate it too!!

[glitter_fades]

:D :D :D :D

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[seeknpeace]

Just thought that you guys would like to know that they are insinuating that Louise lied in her report about the emails and that the headers and ip addys were all "made up" to slam JT.

There is no bottom over there. You know, I know that this is not nearly as important as what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany, but, I have to say, the ppl who are looking the other way, the ppl who refuse to believe remind me of the villagers who did nothing to help and the ppl even today who say that it never happened. NEVER HAPPENED. God, it is infuriating.

Hey Jonathan Todd, if you are reading this, you know that it happened, and you know that you told her that you flew Jackie and Trin out for the rehearsal show. YOU KNOW THAT YOU DID.
Do you think that Blain Clausen will lie for you too?

So, Jackie and Trin, if you are upset at the accusation, you can thank your fearless leader Jonathan Todd for that. He is the one who said that, it was not made up. Oh, and yeah, JT, ppl have phone recorders that YOU cannot change history on, you know?

Remember, success is when preparation meets opportunity.

[gypsysara]

From where at Mick's site?

Im not surprised if so, although sorry that happened...

:(

[glitter_fades]

I'm not going there to see, but I'd like to know who's saying it.

If it's from those shill's who've been posting there from the begining or since the first pre-sale, well, I'm not surprised.

I think the shill's don't realize some of us know who they are. They're not fooling anyone except the people there, but that number is down to a few of the misguided and the self-serving. They are just spinning their wheels for each other now.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
Just thought that you guys would like to know that they are insinuating that Louise lied in her report about the emails and that the headers and ip addys were all "made up" to slam JT.

There is no bottom over there. You know, I know that this is not nearly as important as what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany, but, I have to say, the ppl who are looking the other way, the ppl who refuse to believe remind me of the villagers who did nothing to help and the ppl even today who say that it never happened. NEVER HAPPENED. God, it is infuriating.

Hey Jonathan Todd, if you are reading this, you know that it happened, and you know that you told her that you flew Jackie and Trin out for the rehearsal show. YOU KNOW THAT YOU DID.
Do you think that Blain Clausen will lie for you too?

So, Jackie and Trin, if you are upset at the accusation, you can thank your fearless leader Jonathan Todd for that. He is the one who said that, it was not made up. Oh, and yeah, JT, ppl have phone recorders that YOU cannot change history on, you know?

Remember, success is when preparation meets opportunity.
Well I for one am majorly pissed off about this. First that asshole bans me for no reason and then he tries to suggest making money out of our convention and then cover his ass by blaming someone else!
And I am sure Todd or one of his minions are reading this....well you chose to try to screw with the wrong people

[ivorymorning]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
Just thought that you guys would like to know that they are insinuating that Louise lied in her report about the emails and that the headers and ip addys were all "made up" to slam JT.




I just want to say to the wazzock who insinutated that Louise is making things up....

....come over here (to the UK) and say that. Don't you DARE for one minute think that this is made up, I saw the original and what you see posted here on this thread is THE ACTUAL email.

Don't you tell me that Louise is lying, I know this lady personally and I will vouch for everything she's saying.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rachel

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by ivorymorning
I just want to say to the wazzock who insinutated that Louise is making things up....

....come over here (to the UK) and say that. Don't you DARE for one minute think that this is made up, I saw the original and what you see posted here on this thread is THE ACTUAL email.

Don't you tell me that Louise is lying, I know this lady personally and I will vouch for everything she's saying.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rachel
I love the word wazzock! And I'm with Rach on this one!

[blackdove]

'wazzock'...how very British of you Rachel....LMAO!!

Yes I too am behind both Rachel and Pip on this. Although I don't know Louise personally, I am a member of the UK Fireflies list and CANNOT for a moment believe Lousie would tamper with or fabricate any of these e-mails that Jonathan Todd sent to her.

How small minded and petty these people are who are insintuating this...please do not judge others by your own standards!!! :mad:

Love and happiness from Sarah

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by blackdove
'wazzock'...how very British of you Rachel....LMAO!!

How's about a "pillock"?! (if that's the right spelling, can't say I ever saw it written down anywhere but I've heard it) :)

John

[blackdove]

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
How's about a "pillock"?! (if that's the right spelling, can't say I ever saw it written down anywhere but I've heard it) :)

John

Yeah that's right...pillock...LMAO! They both stand for the same meaning = idiot. Which is a very apt discription for these people.

Love and happiness from Sarah

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Pillock is a particular favourite of mine... hehe. Of course w*nker would be more apt in this situation ;):laugh:

[Cour]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
Replying to emails is not his strong point


He doesn't have a strong point.... unless you count lying.

[glitter_fades]

Originally posted by Cour
He doesn't have a strong point.... unless you count lying.

...and being an award winning huckster--

in light of his latest money-making scheme with the weight loss crap

[gypsygem81]

Originally posted by ivorymorning
I just want to say to the wazzock who insinutated that Louise is making things up....

....come over here (to the UK) and say that. Don't you DARE for one minute think that this is made up, I saw the original and what you see posted here on this thread is THE ACTUAL email.

Don't you tell me that Louise is lying, I know this lady personally and I will vouch for everything she's saying.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Rachel

Well said Rach. Of course Louise wouldn't lie about the email - what a crock of ****. They are clearly making this up because they don't like the fact that Louise has gone public with it and didn't fall for their poor attempts to get her to keep it quiet. This letter has started to make the Fleetwood Mac community to wake up to what a thieving bunch of loosers they are over there and they can't handle the truth coming out so they are trying to badmouth Louise! How stinking low can you get?

Wazzock - excellent choice Rach. In Wales, we're rather fond of the phrase 'bloody tosser'. I also like Sarah's contribution of Pillock. One of my personal favourites.

Love Gem

[Gypsy]

Bump.

[ivorymorning]

Originally posted by gypsygem81
Well said Rach. Of course Louise wouldn't lie about the email ....

Love Gem


Why on earth would she...it lands the originator in enough **** in it's original form ;)

Rachel

[ivorymorning]

Originally posted by gypsygem81

Wazzock - excellent choice Rach. In Wales, we're rather fond of the phrase 'bloody tosser'. I also like Sarah's contribution of Pillock. One of my personal favourites.

Love Gem


Yes, being devoid of Fleetwood Mac tour dates, we are forced to console ourselves by finding new 'colourful metaphors' to describe Jonathan Todd :nod: :laugh: :distress:

Rachel

[ivorymorning]

Yes, the fans need to know about this.

We still need answers though and the silence from Sabremark is deafening.

I can't believe that he hasn't tried to defend himself in the face of some very stiff allegations.

Rachel

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by ivorymorning
Why on earth would she...it lands the originator in enough **** in it's original form ;)

Rachel

He is either 1) too busy trying to haul his butt out of the crap OR
2) knows he has face the incoming from really pissed
off fans so refuses like a coward to put his head
above the parapit.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

bump

[highpriestess53]

JT there is a thread that lists newspaper contacts...

'NEWS CONTACTS FOR THE WORLD'

FEEL FREE TO REPORT THIS SCUM TO THE NATIONAL PRESS

[gypsysara]

Can any of you who have been "banned" from Mick's board now access the board? I havent attempted to re-log back in... however, when I go Im no longer flagged for being "banned from using this forum".

Just curious...

Im not re-logging back in, that's for sure...

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Can any of you who have been "banned" from Mick's board now access the board? I havent attempted to re-log back in... however, when I go Im no longer flagged for being "banned from using this forum".

Just curious...

Im not re-logging back in, that's for sure...

I can read over there, but, I have no desire to sign back up...when I was banned the final time over there, my computer also was really badly messed up. I could not access the internet at all. I have been told this can be done easily if you have a persons info and IP and he had all that on me. So, I am not wanting to risk having to reformat my hard drive as I did before. I am just glad that I had all his lies and early stuff saved so that it was not lost in the reformat.

I am not sure if they lifted the ban or what. I changed my IP totally so I could get back in, and you can also sign up to use a browser tool that will make you anonymous to the site, some of us use that..www.anonymizer.com

[gypsysara]

Thanks Peace.

I was reading for a while over there (laughing quite a bit too)... but Im in your boat, Im not going to attempt to log in or join.

Unless, that is, I get autographed egyptian jewlery from Stevie.

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by gypsysara
Thanks Peace.

I was reading for a while over there (laughing quite a bit too)... but Im in your boat, Im not going to attempt to log in or join.

Unless, that is, I get autographed egyptian jewlery from Stevie.

::screams:: A Girl Has To Have her Egyptian Jewelry!!!!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Hmmm.... well over on the VH1 board someone called MysticalFog seems to have taken it upon themselves to RE-WRITE Todds email!!!

http://www.vh1.com/artists/boards/main.jhtml/fleetwood_mac/ViewThread?tID=339477&mID=1717321&offset=0&index=0

Pip

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
Hmmm.... well over on the VH1 board someone called MysticalFog seems to have taken it upon themselves to RE-WRITE Todds email!!!

http://www.vh1.com/artists/boards/main.jhtml/fleetwood_mac/ViewThread?tID=339477&mID=1717321&offset=0&index=0

Pip

Head on over there you guys and let him or her know (Hey JT or JT's Ass Kisser) what really went down. They are the totally minority...only one lone poster...how sad...but, spreading bs and lies...dissing the Ledge...Sounds like a plant to me BIG time.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
Head on over there you guys and let him or her know (Hey JT or JT's Ass Kisser) what really went down. They are the totally minority...only one lone poster...how sad...but, spreading bs and lies...dissing the Ledge...Sounds like a plant to me BIG time.
I am totally pissed off that this person totally re-wrote the email while claiming it to be the one circulating!

This is the real email:


Hi Blain:

Some of the people involved with this have been so bad on Mick’s board we’ve banned them. I’m worried about promoting events we have no control over. Once we set this precedence we’ll have to offer equal “air time” to every requesting party. Finally, they can’t spell your name and therefore should get NO consideration whatsoever! Please advise if you want this posted. My vote is no. If you want to support them, let’s put them in the CART and get a portion of their ticket sales! Someone still needs to verify this is representative and legit.

JT

And this is what the poster on the VH1 board has put up:

Hi Blain:

Some of the people involved with this have acted so poorly on Mick’s board we’ve had to ban them to protect them from further upset that could cause them to end up in court for their behavior. I’m concerned about requests to promot events until I have verification from proper representative validating legitamacy. Before we set the precedence we’ll have to discuss “air time” that each requesting party will be given. Finally, they can’t spell your name and therefore should get NO consideration whatsoever! Just Joking Man!
Heck some days "I" can't even spell YOUR name right!!
Please advise if you want this posted. Review it and let me know where you stand. If you want to support them, let’s put them in the CART with the other promotors so we can keep track total ticket sales. Someone still needs to verify this is representative and legit and then we can go from there.

JT


I can tell you I am pretty pissed off by this.

[blackdove]

I went over to read the thread that they started...what a crock of s**t!!! I agree with seeknpeace...stinks of a plant. :mad:

I wanted to register to say my piece to them but it wouldn't except my UK zip/postcode.

Pip maybe you could help me with this cause I know you are registered ok.

Love and happiness from Sarah

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by blackdove
I went over to read the thread that they started...what a crock of s**t!!! I agree with seeknpeace...stinks of a plant. :mad:

I wanted to register to say my piece to them but it wouldn't except my UK zip/postcode.

Pip maybe you could help me with this cause I know you are registered ok.

Love and happiness from Sarah
Just make up a US postcode! 90210 or something..hehe..

[blackdove]

90210....LOL I like it :laugh:

Love and happiness from Sarah

[seeknpeace]

Some of the people involved with this have acted so poorly on Mick’s board we’ve had to ban them to protect them from further upset that could cause them to end up in court for their behavior. I’m concerned about requests to promot events until I have verification from proper representative validating legitamacy. Before we set the precedence we’ll have to discuss “air time” that each requesting party will be given. Finally, they can’t spell your name and therefore should get NO consideration whatsoever! Just Joking Man!

Ho Kay....now,,,,,,see, JT, honey, if you want to have someone post for your fat ass, you should FIRST, make sure that they can spell and that they "GET" the concept of grammar. How are they gonna dis Louise's spelling of Blains name, and can't even spell promote? Honey...tsk tsk tsk tsk. You are pitiful. Keep on buster. Just digging that big ole Ego Grave.

[gypsysara]

That really upsets me seeing idiots doing lame things like that.

I just try to keep in mind that KARMA gets those who deserve it.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
Ho Kay....now,,,,,,see, JT, honey, if you want to have someone post for your fat ass, you should FIRST, make sure that they can spell and that they "GET" the concept of grammar. How are they gonna dis Louise's spelling of Blains name, and can't even spell promote? Honey...tsk tsk tsk tsk. You are pitiful. Keep on buster. Just digging that big ole Ego Grave.

Before I even scrolled to your post...I went "Dumba$$ can't even spell PROMOTE correctly, but they make fun of her spelling Blain wrong?! WTH?! LMAO!!!!!!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Well MysticFrog is now saying he/she copied the email in that form from a website somewhere.... wonder where this mystery website is...

He claims there are differing stories about this matter on different sites which is a load of tosh. I know I have been consistent and most of the discussions have happened here anyway

Pip

[Gypsy]

Oh my GOD, who IS that psycho? How dare they?!
Pip, I am SOOOO sorry this happened to you. I send you a great big squooshy hug to make you feel a *little* better...

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/aktion/action-smiley-032.gif

Love,
Gypsy

Ooh, I'm mad....:mad:

[tamaraluvsFM]

OMG!I just read the VH1 posts! I can't believe the crock that the "person" mystic weirdo is spreading about the Ledge and re-working the email. Sounds like to me they are afraid and getting desperate as they know that the **** is going to hit the fan for them sooner or later!
We all KNOW the truth and so will the rest of the fans! Your time is coming to an end...JT..you and your lying flock.

The ledge is about truth and being real. If you can't handle it then dont come.

Tamara

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by tamaraluvsFM
OMG!I just read the VH1 posts! I can't believe the crock that the "person" mystic weirdo is spreading about the Ledge and re-working the email. Sounds like to me they are afraid and getting desperate as they know that the **** is going to hit the fan for them sooner or later!
We all KNOW the truth and so will the rest of the fans! Your time is coming to an end...JT..you and your lying flock.

The ledge is about truth and being real. If you can't handle it then dont come.

Tamara

Oh, and mystic is reading our posts cause he quoted my post from here over there, in regard to his post. It is either JT or one of his ppl. Hey, we seeeee youuuu.....yooooohooooo...weeee seeee youuuuu...:wavey: :wavey:

[estranged4life]

to go check this BS out y'all...


Brian j.

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by seeknpeace
Oh, and mystic is reading our posts cause he quoted my post from here over there, in regard to his post. It is either JT or one of his ppl. Hey, we seeeee youuuu.....yooooohooooo...weeee seeee youuuuu...:wavey: :wavey:

He can't get away from the TRUTH there are toooooooo many people that KNOW what really happened.........and just think when you go into the depths of email technology......you can't F**k about with the message source that appears in MS Notepad form....
We have the TRUTH carefully recorded JT, or MINIONS of said asshole.

SO JT hello!!! :wavey: we are going to be soooo far up your ass we will be able to pluck your nose hairs fom the inside.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Gypsy
Oh my GOD, who IS that psycho? How dare they?!
Pip, I am SOOOO sorry this happened to you. I send you a great big squooshy hug to make you feel a *little* better...

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/aktion/action-smiley-032.gif

Love,
Gypsy

Ooh, I'm mad....:mad:
Awww... love that smilie! I know it is either JT or one of his minions trying to make people doubt what we have said is true. The doctored email is the email he wishes he had written but as Lou has said you can't mess with the message source and what was attached to it. Looks like Toad is grasping at straws to try to discredit us cause this is a biggie IMO

Pip

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
Awww... love that smilie! I know it is either JT or one of his minions trying to make people doubt what we have said is true. The doctored email is the email he wishes he had written but as Lou has said you can't mess with the message source and what was attached to it. Looks like Toad is grasping at straws to try to discredit us cause this is a biggie IMO

Pip

AND the fact that it is on her computer, just like it came...NO ONE can duplicate that. NO ONE. You know, if warranted, confiscated computers can tell a lot. So, watch what you are trying to spin out there.

[gypsysara]

WE know the truth, so at least WE dont have to worry about KARMA and WE can hold our heads up HIGH!

[gypsysara]

UGH that guy on the VH-1 board is such a jerk! :(

(sorry for the venting... Im just sad about this and other stuff today)

[gypsysara]

http://www.vh1.com/artists/boards/main.jhtml/fleetwood_mac/ThreadList?offset=0

Try this link... to see if it works for you, its OK for me.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by disEnchanted
i tried to get on the vh1 board today and got a message it's not there
:confused:
It was down for a while but it working again now

Pip

[msLinds]

I want to say once again.I never joined Fleetwood Mac's Fan club.I did not get banned from Micks web site and have my IP address blocked, I am helping to bump this up.To help my fellow Mac fans that have been unfairly banned and feel they have been ripped off with the presale mess etc, etc. J Todd and Sabermarks Karma will catch up with
him someday.Also the Penguin Ledge is getting one new fan a day joining at least.So this information is new to alot of fans.

:distress: :wavey: :nod: :laugh: :D

[gldstwmn]

Bump it up!;)

[seeknpeace]

You know, in celebration of something, think of anything, I would like to push this back to the top. Any of you new fans who have not read what Micks guy has said and done to the fans, here is a great place to catch up. The person posting as Pix over here is Jonathan Todds Admin Buddy and has offended and burned bridges with a lot of these same fans, I would say with most of them. So, here they are, JTs words. What he did. Who he is and what he is about. No room for JT in my world nor for anyone who is in his.

[Gypsy]

Any word? Where do fan club members stand at this point ? :confused:
Have people been getting refunds from the fan club that applied for them?
Updates, anyone? :wavey:
Thanks for any info.
Love to all from Gypsy

[gldstwmn]

My refund was approved by my bank and then rebutted by the fan club months later. I decided not to rebut it again. I have been fortunate enough to get some great seats for the shows that I have attended-all in the general public sale via Ticketmaster.:)

[seeknpeace]

Hi everyone,

Been busy as all and on the road or had someone here. Just wanted to say that this is not dead. Just laying low for right now, but, still in touch with everyone. One day, perhaps, I can speak freely. Maybe not, but, you will see the benefit of your fight. I think that the fact that you have seen such good contests, more pics, albeit too few, have come as a result of this fight. The video still sucks. Glad that the fan club money bought JT all that hi tech video equipment. I wonder if he leaves the club if he takes that stuff with? At any rate, just know that I am not the type to fight and then just stop. That has not happened. Thank you ALL again for your help too. :wavey: :wavey:

[ac427cobra]

Hey Gang:

Is this the club I join now that I'm banned from Mick's Chat?


All I did was complain how the club scammed me out of $60.00. DUH!!! What's the problem? It happened to thousands of people?!?

So, I'm officially in the club now of banned members. Where do I sign up!?!?

:wavey:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by ac427cobra
Hey Gang:

Is this the club I join now that I'm banned from Mick's Chat?


All I did was complain how the club scammed me out of $60.00. DUH!!! What's the problem? It happened to thousands of people?!?

So, I'm officially in the club now of banned members. Where do I sign up!?!?

:wavey:
LOL! They finally banned you? I thought you were on borrowed time.

Welcome!

Pip

[ac427cobra]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
LOL! They finally banned you? I thought you were on borrowed time.

Welcome!

Pip

Hey Pip:

Thanks for the welcome!!:)

I will fully admit, I did start out on the mild side and then got a little edgy. But, hey, I toned it down when they slapped me on the wrist!!;)

I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when I posted the link to the internet site for the fans regarding the fan club fiasco?

Rock on!!!

[gldstwmn]

It's funny how they keep banning people even when they have no product left to promote.

BTW, welcome to you Bruce.:)

[ac427cobra]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
It's funny how they keep banning people even when they have no product left to promote.

BTW, welcome to you Bruce.:)

Thanks GDW! It's great to be here!!!:wavey:

[seeknpeace]

Originally posted by ac427cobra
Thanks GDW! It's great to be here!!!:wavey:

Been looking for you to get here.....what took you so long? haha...Welcome. There is nothing there and no one who cares one whit about what the club did to you or me or any of us.

The admins are just mini Hitlers with small minds. Welcome to the wide open spaces!!!! :wavey: