Stevie's lack of confidence

[PenguinHead]

Like other hardcore fans, I was extremely dissapointed to hear that Stevie dropped Destiny Rules and Running Through The Garden.

It seems like she's stepping back and letting this be the Lindsey Show. We can only speculate on why those songs were dropped.
But gee, putting Lindsey's new songs (and Beautiful Child) aside, it becomes the same stale old set list.

After all these years, and all the songs she's written, wouldn't she want to do new things? Is attending a Stevie or Fleetwood Mac show just always going to be the same old songs, with just a couple of new ones?

There was a time when the songs of the White and Rumours album were new! And they played the hell out of them and they became classics. Could you imagine attending a Rumours show and hearing them perform just a couple of those songs?

If the newer material isn't performed, how is it ever going to get a chance? It's so frustrating!

Stevie is on autopilot when she sings songs like Dreams and Rhiannon etc... Perhaps she doesn't venture far beyond those songs in concert because they are easy for her to perform and are sure crowd pleasers. Still, I've read her mention that she considers her new songs some of her best work. So why doesn't she perform it? Just two measily new songs?

Given the long spaces of time between their/her albums and concerts, and considering their ages, how many more tours and albums can we reasonably expect from them? I wish Stevie would be a little bit more confident performing new material before the end comes!

Just my taste, but they could perform the entire Say You Will album, and I'd be satisfied and thrilled. I want to be challenged by the artists I love, not placated into numbing familiarity and safety.

[WindingRoad]

I see your point but I have to comment on a few things.

1) I didn't like Rhiannon because there was no piano to it, and it was a shortenend version. However, I liked the "wings" shawl she wore with it and frankly, it wouldn't be a FM show without Rhiannon.

2) I don't like "Running Through The Garden". However, I would like to have seen "Destiny Rules." Also, "Smile At You" which I don't think was ever in the set list. And of course, "Everybody Finds Out", which I think we'd all like to see live.

3) Stevie positively OWNED the crowd with Gold Dust Woman and Stand Back. So, in my opinion, you don't mess with perfection.

4) Beautiful Child and Goodbye, Baby did not get the crowd reaction they should have. They were beautiful, mournful, and "enchanting" for me. I think the crowd just wasn't familiar with them. Another reason why bands play the songs people will recognize.

That said, I think Stevie was totally on, very happy and content, nice to see her smile, she seemed peaceful to me but she still rocked out when she need to!

I can't ask for anything more. :blob1: :blob2:

susieq :wavey:

[PenguinHead]

It's a safe and easy to please the masses, isn't it?

[blinker12]

PenguinHead, I totally agree with you. She should be performing more from the new album. Actually, the one I'd most like to hear live is "Illume (9-11)" _ I think that would sound fantastic. "Thrown Down" is just a terrific all-around song, too. I can't figure out why that was never even considered for the set list.
I would respect the band so much more if they had decided to really get behind the new album on this tour, instead of making it another "Dance"-style greatest hits affair. They wouldn't have drawn the same crowds or have been able to charge the same sky-high ticket prices, but the show would have felt so much more VITAL. I mean, how can anyone wonder why Fleetwood Mac is no longer considered relevant, when practically all they do on the road is rehash their 1970s hits?
I'm sure I'll still love the concert (which I'm seeing this Friday). But as a rabid fan, I'd like to see them take a few more chances.

[gypsysara]

I love all the classic hits too, but I wish they'd play some other Stevie songs in comparison to what they've chosen. The fact that Destiny Rules was dropped is a bummer. Its not a song where Stevie goes high into her vocal register. I love Stand Back, and its pratically a FM song now, but still remains a Stevie solo song and Id rather here EFO than SB. Just my $0.02...

[sulamith]

I am SO SO SO excited about seeing them on June 3rd, but at the same time am almost devastated at the loss of DR and RTTG after the FIRST show!

C'mon!

I am sure I will enjoy the show, and I am grateful, thankful, and very appreciative they are even doing it, but it would be so much better the NEW material was being featured more heavily.

I totally hear ya!

-Sharon

[Bella Figura]

I, too, am disappointed that Stevie dropped both RTTG and Destiny Rules...But it's something I expected because she does do this on concert tours whether due to the strain on her voice, personal stamina issues and/or her feeling that the audience wants only the classic stuff. She dropped Bombay Sapphires quite early on during TISL so I was anticipating something similar happening this time but wasn't worrying too much since my shows are early in the tour but to drop songs so early after the first and third shows was quite a shock to me. :)

but I'm very glad to hear that long-term fans and Ledgies still enjoyed the concert regardless and I am looking forward to seeing Lindsey perform. the only other FM concert I went to was Tango.

[tamaraluvsFM]

I too was sad that they took out RTTG and Destiny Rules, as I saw them both in the Columbus show and they rocked! But, I have to say that even if you pull those two out, the show would still ROCK! The sound and the chemistry and the whole flow, was amazing and so worth it.
As for her confidence, maybe she is seeing how much Lindsey has grown and is so proud of him and maybe wants to shine more of the light on him.
Or maybe she is not as comfortable with the new songs as we remember before the tour started she was not happy that they did not have more time to practice.
Who knows...but I will enjoy them while I can..cause one day..and I hate saying this..but they will not be out on the road ever again...:eek:
Ok now I am depressed...

Tamara :wavey:

[Mike B]

I'm with you, PenguinHead. I'm not sure why the songs were dropped, but I'm very disappointed that we're only getting two new ones from Stevie now. And not even two really strong ones.

One of the reasons I made it a point to go to some early shows was because I thought they might drop something. But sheesh...they only did RTTG <i>one night.</i> They didn't even give it a chance to fail.

I love, love, love Destiny Rules, but I can kinda see why it was dropped. It didn't really get the crowd moving. But why not put RTTG back in? Or try out Thrown Down in place of DR? Or Smile At You?

Truly, when I'm at the show, it doesn't really make that much of a difference to me. But when I start mulling over what the show <i>could</i> be like, it makes my head hurt.

[PenguinHead]

lol Mike B! My head hurts too!

Of course their show is amazing, and I won't complain a bit once I'm there. Hell, I've heard Landslide, Rhiannon, Dreams and Gold Dust Woman performed a million times...what's one more time?!

I just wish they would mix it up more instead of pandering to the masses (most of which are only peripheral fans at best). And don't get me started on how substandard, inappropriate (a stuffed bear?) and unprofessional their tour merchandise is. They apparently have some piss-pore decision makers surrounding them. Ah. Now my head hurts more!

Moreover, I'm somewhat fearful (for some unexplicably reason) that they won't last long enough to make it to Portland, OR

[dougb]

dont say that penguin I just got tickets to that show!

[flyfirefly]

Do we know that Stevie dropped RTTG and DR?

People keep saying that, and saying that they're disappointed and disappointed in her, but do we know the whole story? Seems there's quite a bit of blaming Lindsey for someone Stevie may be totally okay with, and not necessarily due to her confidence level.

[PenguinHead]

You make very good points flyfirefly!

I did preface that it was tough to speculate on what the circumstances that leads to songs being dropped from their set. But you're right, perhaps some of us have placed the onus on Stevie and Lindsey a bit too heavier than deserved. I'm guilty of that with Stevie, for sure.

Regardless of the circumstances, it's still a little disconcerting and frustrating to see the band you've followed and loved for 26 years live in suspended animation (live-wise) -- essentially doing the same show they've been performing since 1977.

And for those who complain that they don't like hearing new songs because they don't know them...where is the logic in not enjoying it just the same? If someone of that mindset is going to a show (which is usually is taking place to promote a new record), isn't it reasonable to expect new songs? If it's so bothersome, it wouldn't take much effort to get familiarized with the album before attending a show. That kind of "fan" annoys me!

My apologies for the slightly caustic tone...I've had a not-so-good day.

[PenguinHead]

Doug B...you're going to Rose Garden show? Where are you sitting? My seats this time are a far cry from when Stevie last performed there -- first row! An amazing way to see a show -- youy become a participant and not just a spectator. Even got to shake Stevie's hand. This time I'm in the 19th row. I've fallen from grace.

[darklinensuit]

Stevie gave that interview a few years ago in which she said that the band learned a huge lesson on the Rumous tour. They played the (then) new songs and the crowd didn't take to them. Stevie said that the band learned that if those now-classic songs couldn't grab an audience, then the lesson is not to try to cram new songs down fans' throats. Her words, not mine. Anybody else remember this interview?

I think that they tossed in some extra songs at the start of this year's tour with every intention of dropping whichever new ones THEY felt didn't work. I don't think they picked the right songs to drop, but, then, there isn't much about this band's decisions to promote this album that I think have been wise.

I am disappointed that RTTG was dropped.
I am surprised that TD & EFO were not included. (They seem MADE for the radio, so I'd think the label would be pressing for their inclusion on the tour.)
I am indifferent over the removal of DR. It's nice, but if the set doesn't have room for Seven Wders or SOTM, DR certainly is not good enough to be included.
I am relieved that Smile at You is not in the set. This version would sound like a throwback to TOSOTM tour's Doing the Best that I Can.

BTW, as somebody who saw the show two nights ago, I will attest that Stevie does NOT leave the spotlight to Lindsey. The show is very much a showcase for the talents in their partnership.

- Jake

[rianbay1]

Originally posted by PenguinHead
You make very good points flyfirefly!

I did preface that it was tough to speculate on what the circumstances that leads to songs being dropped from their set. But you're right, perhaps some of us have placed the onus on Stevie and Lindsey a bit too heavier than deserved. I'm guilty of that with Stevie, for sure.

Regardless of the circumstances, it's still a little disconcerting and frustrating to see the band you've followed and loved for 26 years live in suspended animation (live-wise) -- essentially doing the same show they've been performing since 1977.

And for those who complain that they don't like hearing new songs because they don't know them...where is the logic in not enjoying it just the same? If someone of that mindset is going to a show (which is usually is taking place to promote a new record), isn't it reasonable to expect new songs? If it's so bothersome, it wouldn't take much effort to get familiarized with the album before attending a show. That kind of "fan" annoys me!

My apologies for the slightly caustic tone...I've had a not-so-good day.

[rianbay1]

Originally posted by PenguinHead

And for those who complain that they don't like hearing new songs because they don't know them...where is the logic in not enjoying it just the same? If someone of that mindset is going to a show (which is usually is taking place to promote a new record), isn't it reasonable to expect new songs? If it's so bothersome, it wouldn't take much effort to get familiarized with the album before attending a show. That kind of "fan" annoys me!


AMEN Penguinhead!!! Nothing pisses me off more than "Fans" Like that too, ESPECIALLY if they are in FRONT of me. Buying a copy of "Rumours" along with 25 million other people does not a FAN make.

BRIAN

[buckmacnicks]

Can anyone explain the reasons why Stevie keeps dropping songs when touring. Either it´s fatigue (menopause?) or lack of interest from the crowd maybe? Though I hardly believe that last point. Illume, Everybody Finds Out and Thrown Down would sit in comfortably between the "classic" songs.
In my opinion these classic songs are not what should be performed. I get so tired when reading "these songs are what the fans want to hear" Not so miss Nicks, you are wrong!

I know almost all of us true hardcore fans would love to hear all her songs from Tusk being performed, plus songs like Crystal, Fireflies and Frozen Love (now what about that one for an encore instead of the ghastly drum solo in World Turning?)

Why does she hate Sara so much that she refuses to play it live? "It doesn´t transfer well to the stage" is a total crap argument, because it was one of the highlights during the Tusk and Mirage tour, as well as during her own early solo tours.
It may be because of the abortion references, but then again these are more apparent in a song like Goodbye Baby and that song gets to be performed!!
Is it someting about the lyrics or what? I know Robert Plant hates the lyrics for Stairway to Heaven so much that he refuses to play it again. What keeps them from rewriting these then and performing them again??

What are you views on this issue?

Greetz,

Marcel.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by sulamith
I am SO SO SO excited about seeing them on June 3rd, but at the same time am almost devastated at the loss of DR and RTTG after the FIRST show!

C'mon!

I am sure I will enjoy the show, and I am grateful, thankful, and very appreciative they are even doing it, but it would be so much better the NEW material was being featured more heavily.

I totally hear ya!

-Sharon

Well. we need to make a banner that is 50 ft by 20 ft., which clearly states our thoughts and then stretch it from one side of the arena to the other. Given our seat locations, we just need to find someone on the other side of the stage :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I cannot wait until 6/3/03. :wavey:

[sulamith]

Haaaaaaay strandie!

Sounds good! Will they let us do it? At least off the section we are sitting?

'Cause if they will, honey I'm going to make one out of a bed sheet and let it fly! lol!

Now don't go upgrading to one of those close floor seats!

We are all going to stay in 117 so we can stand and holla!

-Sharon

p.s. I just found out my BOSS is also going to this show. I'm sorta bummed about it, even though I like her alot and she is totally cool, I am just a bit unnerved about partying and acting a Mac fool with my BOSS-lady around, ya know? She's going to be sitting way back on the floor, so I really want to stay up and above where I am so she won't see me trembling with delight
over the lamest things! I know you guys would understand!

[WindingRoad]

Originally posted by buckmacnicks
Can anyone explain the reasons why Stevie keeps dropping songs when touring. Either it´s fatigue (menopause?) Marcel.

Yep, Marcel, it's that dreaded menopause. Makes you drop songs from your setlist every time. :rolleyes:

susieq :wavey:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by buckmacnicks
Why does she hate Sara so much that she refuses to play it live? "It doesn´t transfer well to the stage" is a total crap argument, because it was one of the highlights during the Tusk and Mirage tour, as well as during her own early solo tours.
It may be because of the abortion references, but then again these are more apparent in a song like Goodbye Baby and that song gets to be performed!!
What are you views on this issue?

Greetz,

Marcel.

True, Marcel but her ex-boyfriend didn't come out in a national publication and say Goodbye Baby was about an abortion. He did do that with Sara, however and in my opinion, Stevie probably feels that this has ruined the mystique that is Sara.

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
True, Marcel but her ex-boyfriend didn't come out in a national publication and say Goodbye Baby was about an abortion. He did do that with Sara, however and in my opinion, Stevie probably feels that this has ruined the mystique that is Sara.

I agree.

- Jake

[The Chain]

:eek:

What's this abortion thing?! I did't know anything about it. Please don't tell me it's true.:distress:

[SpyNote]

I don't think it's fatigue or lack of interest. I agree with the assessment that it seems to be a confidence issue, an irrational fear that the crowd will turn if too much new material is played. After all, this is a woman who still forgets the words to Dreams and gets unusually nervous before every show. It's a defense mechanism to revert back to your comfort zone, to the things that will always be validated.

But Stevie does get big kudos for performing Beautiful Child; it has evolved beautifully with each performance. For example, at the first two shows, she wasn't even attempting to hit the higher "I'm not a CHILD anymore" towards the end of the song. But at AC and Philly, she was singing that same line with so much conviction. If she gave her other songs, particularly Destiny Rules, the same attention, they would inevitably soar to new level as well.

Daniel

[ERigby818]

Though I can't offer any other theories as to why she would drop these new songs.
It SO bothers me that fans who only know the hits would go to the concerts. I would think the fans who go see them live would appreciate album deep cuts and new stuff, especially loyal followers who have seen Dreams, Rhiannon and GDW since they were new!
I have said a million times I would never miss those three songs if they weren't performed live. I just think they don't sound as good as they once did and her new material is more suited to her older voice...she doesn't have to alter the melodies. The thing that bugs me most is that in Rhiannon the part "all your life you've never seen" is all on ONE note now. Ugh.:distress:
I'd rather she just dropped it once in a while, maybe not at every show, but just was a little more adventurous and didn't treat those three songs like a security blanket!
Then again, I don't mind seeing Lindsey have the spotlight more in this tour. We haven't goten to see Lindsey on tour as much as Stevie.
-Sonia

[Sorcerer386]

The problem with dropping the old, old songs like Rhiannon and GYOW is that they get the biggest response from the audience. When Rhiannon started playing at Pittsburgh I thought the Mellon Arena might collapse from the cheers at the beginning. It literally scared me -- as in making me jump like when someone goes BOO! I mean, with that kind of response, you WANT to do songs like that. It's no fun doing songs that the audience is going to be half into. Not to mention, even with only 6 new songs now, the critics are still giving FM a ton of credit for including "a healthy dose of new material." I honestly think six new songs from the album is sufficient, although I DO wish it was split three and three.

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by Sorcerer386
The problem with dropping the old, old songs like Rhiannon and GYOW is that they get the biggest response from the audience. When Rhiannon started playing at Pittsburgh I thought the Mellon Arena might collapse from the cheers at the beginning. It literally scared me -- as in making me jump like when someone goes BOO! I mean, with that kind of response, you WANT to do songs like that. It's no fun doing songs that the audience is going to be half into. Not to mention, even with only 6 new songs now, the critics are still giving FM a ton of credit for including "a healthy dose of new material." I honestly think six new songs from the album is sufficient, although I DO wish it was split three and three.

I agree completely.
And I'll add that GDW on this tour is outstanding.

Again, I think SOTM would be an excellent pick for Stevie's new voice. Just had to get that in.

- Jake

[PenguinHead]

Originally posted by WindingRoad
Yep, Marcel, it's that dreaded menopause. Makes you drop songs from your setlist every time. :rolleyes:

susieq :wavey:

That is so funny! I'll chuckle for hours! Thanks.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by ERigby818
Though I can't offer any other theories as to why she would drop these new songs.
It SO bothers me that fans who only know the hits would go to the concerts. I would think the fans who go see them live would appreciate album deep cuts and new stuff, especially loyal followers who have seen Dreams, Rhiannon and GDW since they were new!
I have said a million times I would never miss those three songs if they weren't performed live. I just think they don't sound as good as they once did and her new material is more suited to her older voice...she doesn't have to alter the melodies. The thing that bugs me most is that in Rhiannon the part "all your life you've never seen" is all on ONE note now. Ugh.:distress:
I'd rather she just dropped it once in a while, maybe not at every show, but just was a little more adventurous and didn't treat those three songs like a security blanket!
-Sonia


I'm with you. She was not into singing Rhiannon in Columbus. I wouldn't die if I didn't hear it live for a while but I think she feels that she has to play it.