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  #1  
Old 07-06-2017, 07:23 AM
secret love secret love is offline
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Default Let's talk about Say You Will marking FM's legacy

Hi all,

The last studio album by Fleetwood Mac was Buckingham McVie. Oh, sorry, my mistake - it was Say You Will. Apart from a 17 minute EP they haven't released new music or even live recordings apart from Live in Boston (2003) since then.

So how does Say You Will stack up? Does it cement their legacy as a confessional songwriting team? An adult contemporary pop music powerhouse?

I'm going to give my opinion in answer to those questions, but only because I want to hear yours too.

Say You Will is my second favourite Fleetwood Mac album. Tusk is my favourite but I've heard it too much. I've listened to Say You Will many times, it is in heavy rotation on my car CD player currently. I think is a brilliant, creative, challenging album. I think the band, including Christine (for her keyboards and backing vocals on two songs) can be very proud of their efforts. John McVie's bass line on Smile at You is genius. All the band members produced great works of art. Nicks could have written more than four new songs but other than that I can't complain. I think Say You Will has stood the test of time. 14 years later it sounds incredible to me still with every listen, though I first heard it in 2012.

Extended Play was good too but it doesn't count as an album and SYW ****s all over it.

But here's a curly one: what's a better legacy, Buckingham McVie (If it had been say, On With the Show by Fleetwood Mac) or Say You Will?

I'm curious to hear your answers to that one for sure!
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2017, 07:47 AM
lennonfan lennonfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secret love View Post
Hi all,

The last studio album by Fleetwood Mac was Buckingham McVie. Oh, sorry, my mistake - it was Say You Will. Apart from a 17 minute EP they haven't released new music or even live recordings apart from Live in Boston (2003) since then.

So how does Say You Will stack up? Does it cement their legacy as a confessional songwriting team? An adult contemporary pop music powerhouse?

I'm going to give my opinion in answer to those questions, but only because I want to hear yours too.

Say You Will is my second favourite Fleetwood Mac album. Tusk is my favourite but I've heard it too much. I've listened to Say You Will many times, it is in heavy rotation on my car CD player currently. I think is a brilliant, creative, challenging album. I think the band, including Christine (for her keyboards and backing vocals on two songs) can be very proud of their efforts. John McVie's bass line on Smile at You is genius. All the band members produced great works of art. Nicks could have written more than four new songs but other than that I can't complain. I think Say You Will has stood the test of time. 14 years later it sounds incredible to me still with every listen, though I first heard it in 2012.

Extended Play was good too but it doesn't count as an album and SYW ****s all over it.

But here's a curly one: what's a better legacy, Buckingham McVie (If it had been say, On With the Show by Fleetwood Mac) or Say You Will?

I'm curious to hear your answers to that one for sure!
I've always seen it more as a Buckingham Nicks album with a good rhythm section as opposed to being a real FM album. I really don't care for it, a few good songs but overall too long and too loudly mastered for my tastes.
The vibe also seems unhappy. Have you heard Bare Trees, Future Games or Then Play On?
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:20 AM
bwboy bwboy is online now
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I find Say You Will a bit like Buck/Vie- two solo albums combined into one. It's just more noticeable on Say You Will because there are 18 songs on it. The only songs I really love are Thrown Down, Say You Will, Peacekeeper, Goodbye Baby, and What's the World Coming To. The rest I either tolerate or dislike. I really wish Stevie and Lindsey sang more on each other's songs, a complaint I have about the Buck/Vie album as well.

I saw them in Columbus when they toured for this album, and I was surprised and thrilled they sang so many songs from Say You Will, but from what I understand, they pretty quickly replaced some of the new songs with standards either due to poor audience reaction or the lackluster sales of the album.

I'm glad you like the album, but for me it was a disappointment.
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:33 AM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is online now
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One of my least favorite FM albums. Like lennonfan said, it's not got a happy vibe to it.

I absolutely LOVE this new Fleetwood Mac album, especially compared to SYW.
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  #5  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:48 AM
James89 James89 is offline
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John and Mick are SUBLIME on Say You Will. Sublime. Love the album and yes, it has stood the test of time.
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  #6  
Old 07-06-2017, 08:53 AM
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I like "Say you will"...and prefer it..
Yes it's a couple of songs too long.
But it does have some stuff you can get your teeth into.
It also took sometime to get to like, it so it's a slow burner.
........for me......
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  #7  
Old 07-06-2017, 09:46 AM
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It's a masterpiece; the best work anybody involved in Fleetwood Mac has done since Tusk. It is a worthy send-off.
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  #8  
Old 07-06-2017, 12:20 PM
nicepace nicepace is offline
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I have never shaken my first impression, that "Say You Will" is two solo albums on shuffle. I like it well enough to listen to it once in a while, but if it had been half as long it would be a better album. To my ear, Christine's absence is a fatal flaw in this album. She has always been the balancing factor between Lindsey's bluster and Stevie's airiness.

The BuckVie album, to my ear, holds together much better and sounds like much more of a band effort. Yes, there are songs alternating lead vocalists, but that has been true of most of the songs of the McVie-Buckingham-Nicks era. I don't find Stevie's absence a flaw at all; my opinion is that the lineup that recorded this album had a lot more fun without her, and it shows in the final result.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2017, 01:29 PM
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What my inquiring mind wants to know is WTF happened during the making of the record that caused Stevie not to want to ever do it again.
I like Say You Will. Destiny Rules is the quintessential Fleetwood Mac track on the record. The rest of it is a little here, there and everywhere. Stevie cribbed two of the melodies from Richard Ashcroft (Silver Girl - I Get My Beat and Illume - New York). The Silver Girl demo in the doc is better than the finished product. I don't like what became of Smile At You. I like Lindsey's nod to Brian Wilson in What's The World Coming To. Peacekeeper, Red Rover and Say Goodbye are great. So the FM legacy will be unscathed by this record but incomplete. They should make one last record. Never say never with this group.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:04 PM
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aleuzzi aleuzzi is offline
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The observations many have made about two solo albums mixed together makes sense. But that has been the case with a number of Mac albums, including some pre-BN ones and TIME. So that doesn't really surprise or disappoint me.

As a whole, SYW is uneven but VERY substantial. Both writers bring some great material to the project and the rhythm section kicks butt.

For me, the weakest parts of the album are in its center.

I love: Illume, Murrow, Miranda, Throw Down, Destiny Rules, Say You Will, Steal Your Heart Away, Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her (even the second time), Say Goodbye, and especially Everybody Finds Out.

That's a lot to love. There are a few middling songs in there and even fewer duds. But overall I'm happy to have such a substantial body of music. For what it's worth, I feel the exact same way about IN THE MEANTIME, which followed one year from this.
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2017, 05:22 PM
James89 James89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gldstwmn View Post
Stevie cribbed two of the melodies from Richard Ashcroft (Silver Girl - I Get My Beat and Illume - New York).
OMG!!! Just listened to both songs on Spotify from his Alone With Everybody album and you're so right! Anyone reading this please go and listen. Stevie quite obviously heard this album before the making of SYW and these tracks stuck with her. Quite amazing, thanks for sharing.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2017, 05:59 PM
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Macfan4life Macfan4life is offline
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Say You Will is routinely bashed around here and I cant understand why. Its brilliant and a masterpiece. It really was a void without Christine. But besides Rumours or Tusk, Lindsey's brilliance has never shown more than on this record.
Whats the world coming to is a great catchy opener. It was SO NICE to hear Stevie backing Lindsey again. Wow, it was so long to hear this.
Illume- pure genius Mr. Buckingham. How to turn an emotional poem about 9/11 into a song. A pop song? NO WAY. Its raw, its confusing, its dynamic, and so unpredictable as a song. That pretty much captures the whole experience of 9/11. PURE GENIUS!!!!
Thrown Down - wow a classic Mac song with Stevie singing strong. Very catchy
Say You Will - a great pop single and the meaning is sincere about wanting Christine to stay
Peacekeeper- a pretty good lead of single
Come - brilliant guitar work something Lindsey does not always show on his songs
Smile at you - so many demos over the years. This version rocks. Stevie is angry
Running through the Garden - finally makes it to an album and what a masterpiece!
Everybody finds out - probably in the top 15 of all time best Mac tunes. Its a full orchestra of drums, percussion, bass, guitar and the song explodes in the end. I wish the Mac had more songs like this. Its really the perfect song with lyrics and music
Destiny Rules - fantastic songs

the songs I did not mention are good but not the best of the album. I never cared for the goodbye baby songs. If I could remove 4 songs and add Christine songs this would be one of the best mac albums ever.
I don't get why anyone cant see that this album musically is probably their most intricate ever. Its no computer programmed Tango for sure. You can tell they worked their heart out on every song.
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2017, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James89 View Post
OMG!!! Just listened to both songs on Spotify from his Alone With Everybody album and you're so right! Anyone reading this please go and listen. Stevie quite obviously heard this album before the making of SYW and these tracks stuck with her. Quite amazing, thanks for sharing.
They're great songs so I can see why. It's okay to be inspired by another artist.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
Say You Will is routinely bashed around here and I cant understand why. Its brilliant and a masterpiece. It really was a void without Christine. But besides Rumours or Tusk, Lindsey's brilliance has never shown more than on this record.
Whats the world coming to is a great catchy opener. It was SO NICE to hear Stevie backing Lindsey again. Wow, it was so long to hear this.
Illume- pure genius Mr. Buckingham. How to turn an emotional poem about 9/11 into a song. A pop song? NO WAY. Its raw, its confusing, its dynamic, and so unpredictable as a song. That pretty much captures the whole experience of 9/11. PURE GENIUS!!!!
Thrown Down - wow a classic Mac song with Stevie singing strong. Very catchy
Say You Will - a great pop single and the meaning is sincere about wanting Christine to stay
Peacekeeper- a pretty good lead of single
Come - brilliant guitar work something Lindsey does not always show on his songs
Smile at you - so many demos over the years. This version rocks. Stevie is angry
Running through the Garden - finally makes it to an album and what a masterpiece!
Everybody finds out - probably in the top 15 of all time best Mac tunes. Its a full orchestra of drums, percussion, bass, guitar and the song explodes in the end. I wish the Mac had more songs like this. Its really the perfect song with lyrics and music
Destiny Rules - fantastic songs

the songs I did not mention are good but not the best of the album. I never cared for the goodbye baby songs. If I could remove 4 songs and add Christine songs this would be one of the best mac albums ever.
I don't get why anyone cant see that this album musically is probably their most intricate ever. Its no computer programmed Tango for sure. You can tell they worked their heart out on every song.
I don't love it and I don't hate it. I like most of the songs (Say you Will is really catchy and my favorite. I also love Running Throught the Garden, Thrown Down, Peacekeeper, Say Goodbye, Goodbye Baby) but in my opinión it has too many songs. But unlike Tusk it's not a good thing here, because it doesn't have Christine and also because Stevie's mood is all over the album.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:32 PM
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I was listening this this record just yesterday, after playing Buckingham/McVie ad nauseam since it's release (easily 3 times a day).

My one take away which I've never truly appreciated before - Say You Will is John McVies best work ever. John kills it on nearly every track, the amount of times he saves songs just with his bass work is endless.

I think when it's all said and done Say You Will will sit somewhere in-between albums like Mystery To Me and Mirage, loved by fans that follow the band closely but generally overlooked by the mass market.
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