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  #31  
Old 12-10-2016, 01:25 PM
Tango Tango is offline
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Originally Posted by 24karatstevie View Post
I think I may have mentioned this in a different thread before, I'm not sure. But the main draw of Fleetwood Mac for me is Stevie; however, I also really like Chris's music. I have nothing against Lindsey, I just like Stevie and Chris's music more. I guess I should mention that since I am a newer fan, I have not actually seen Fleetwood Mac live yet. I just saw Stevie for the first time on this tour. I definitely want Stevie to be there for my first time seeing the Mac. I hope this makes sense; I wasn't trying to say anything against the other members.
Thank you for your answer. Yes, you make perfect sense. And it's how you feel.
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  #32  
Old 12-10-2016, 01:32 PM
FuzzyPlum FuzzyPlum is offline
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
Let's say you're right and Stevie is lying about why she doesn't want to record with FM. Maybe she doesn't want to say to the public "I hate working with Lindsey so much that I can't stand the thought of being trapped in a studio with him for even a week." I think that's the real reason she doesn't want to make a new album with the band, but she doesn't want to be a b!tch about it and say anything mean about him, especially to the fans.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter WHY she doesn't want to make a new record with the band, the fact is she doesn't want to and has made that clear to them. She's not dragging her feet or leading them on. They need to just finish the album themselves.

No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.
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  #33  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:00 PM
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HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.
Hits the nail, dead on the head. Spot on!
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  #34  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:17 PM
bwboy bwboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
All that is probably true. Isn't sad though if you pay her 10 million dollars she will gladly tour with Lindsey for a year and do her hugs and kisses on stage
There's a difference between working on an album and touring, of course. The conflict seems to be when they're in the studio, not when they're performing. I think all 5 get along fine when they're touring. And it's just as phony of Lindsey to do the hugs and kisses on stage as it is Stevie.
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  #35  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:27 PM
bwboy bwboy is offline
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.
Fuzzy, you just don't know that. She wrote nearly all of her material for In Your Dreams, as well as 24 Karat Gold. Even if she was as insecure as you paint her out to be about her ability to write songs now, she still has plenty of old demos she could hand over to the band. But if she did that, she would still have to go into the studio with Lindsey, and she clearly doesn't want to do that. It's frustrating, I'm annoyed and disappointed too, but can't fault her for the way she feels.

If you're mad she won't record with the band, that's fine and understandable, but no need to say "she's insecure" and "worried she'll come off looking bad."
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  #36  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:30 PM
FuzzyPlum FuzzyPlum is offline
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
There's a difference between working on an album and touring, of course. The conflict seems to be when they're in the studio, not when they're performing. I think all 5 get along fine when they're touring. And it's just as phony of Lindsey to do the hugs and kisses on stage as it is Stevie.

Not always- much of it is just a public show. I think for most of the tour they barely speak outside the venue.

It is just as phony of Lindsey, but he isn't the one complaining he can't work with Stevie. He's happy to grit his teeth and get on with it.
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  #37  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.
I agree with your premise, but I don't think it's jealousy.
I think her insecurity stems from the failure of 24K Gold because she really cared about that album.
Now because of that she's probably disillusioned about making new records while touring with an unexpected setlist has become a pleasant surprise and wants to do it with the Mac too.
Also I have a feeling that she thinks that the album would take a pretty long time to complete and by the time it eventually comes out and they can hit the road they'll all be more than 70 and they may lack the energy to tour an extensive tour with a 3 hours setlist.
You can record albums at any age but you can't always tour.
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  #38  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
Not always- much of it is just a public show. I think for most of the tour they barely speak outside the venue.

It is just as phony of Lindsey, but he isn't the one complaining he can't work with Stevie. He's happy to grit his teeth and get on with it.
For all we know he is complaining about her all the time, even right now, just they don't ask him in interviews.
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  #39  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:54 PM
FuzzyPlum FuzzyPlum is offline
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
Fuzzy, you just don't know that. She wrote nearly all of her material for In Your Dreams, as well as 24 Karat Gold.
It depends on your definition of 'write songs'. In Your Dreams mostly came from her poetry. It takes a lot to turn a poem into a song. For In Your Dreams she had to rely on Dave to create the music and turn the lyrics into songs.

Yes, she wrote 24 Karat Gold...30+ years ago.


I think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc
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  #40  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:54 PM
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I love Stevie but I'm upset with her for not getting involved. I think that she won't do it because recording with Lindsey as a producer isn't fun for her. If he wasn't producing I don't think there'd be as much of an issue.
But the thing is, she's in a band. That's just how it is in a band, there's always conflict. It wouldn't be a band if everything was peachy. George Harrison often was really unhappy recording with The Beatles because Lennon and McCartney dominated and made him feel like a session musician. But he still showed up because it was his job.
I think Stevie holds all the cards in the band when it comes to things like this because she has way more fans than the rest of them and she knows it and they know it. That's why it's pretty ****ty of her to be putting them in this position since she doesn't want to just be a band member and do her job.
And I'm not speaking for all SN fans but the ones that are bitter about FM are just the ones who think Stevie can do no wrong and so they think everyone else is the bad guy.
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  #41  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
There's a difference between working on an album and touring, of course. The conflict seems to be when they're in the studio, not when they're performing. I think all 5 get along fine when they're touring. And it's just as phony of Lindsey to do the hugs and kisses on stage as it is Stevie.
No... they don't get along touring either. But with touring they don't have to see each other except on stage. Conflict has always created masterpieces in music and art.
Frank Lloyd Wright fought Mr. Kauffman daily and threatened to quit and Mr. Kauffman always questioned Frank Lloyd Wright about his architectural plans. In the end they created Falling Water....an architectural masterpiece.
Don't run or hide.... embrace it.
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Last edited by Macfan4life : 12-10-2016 at 03:07 PM.
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  #42  
Old 12-10-2016, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
It depends on your definition of 'write songs'. In Your Dreams mostly came from her poetry. It takes a lot to turn a poem into a song. For In Your Dreams she had to rely on Dave to create the music and turn the lyrics into songs.

Yes, she wrote 24 Karat Gold...30+ years ago.


I think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc
The lyrics for I don't care were new, before recording the album she had only the instrumental of Mike Campbell. However they aren't the finest lyrics she did in her career.
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  #43  
Old 12-10-2016, 03:18 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum View Post
It depends on your definition of 'write songs'. In Your Dreams mostly came from her poetry. It takes a lot to turn a poem into a song. For In Your Dreams she had to rely on Dave to create the music and turn the lyrics into songs.

Yes, she wrote 24 Karat Gold...30+ years ago.


I think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc
well it's like on SYW.... she was content to hand over a bunch of old demos but then got a taste of what Lindsey was bringing and that got her competitive side going and she decided she didn't want just old stuff, she had to step up and crank out some songs.... and she managed to bring 4 new ones...not her best, perhaps, (ahem, Silver Girl) and she recycled lyrics on the same album (Illume and Destiny Rules) though I actually like Destiny Rules and Thrown Down is pretty damn good. It just seems to be so much more work for her these days..her musical vocabulary is sooooo rudimentary and she's run out of all the ways to combine her same 4 chords and make them new. Even, and I hate to say it, but her lyrics have gone downhill from her heyday. Not that she can't occasionally still bring it but honestly..... I just don't think she has that much to write about anymore. Like she said for her solo album reissues and 24k (same vintage) those were her "sex and drugs and rock and roll" songs and she adds that she couldn't ever write those kinds of songs again. what's she gonna write about? Having her yogurt treat before bed?? : O Kidding....she could actually write about losing her dad, her mom, getting older, whatever, but maybe she feels that doesn't lend itself to upbeat rocking songs. Who knows. I mean she is a writer whose bread and butter is songs about a)tumultuous relationships or b)witches, ghosts, spirits. She can still write about the first stuff just based on past events, or come up with some new stuff for the second topic. But she just doesn't seem that inspired to write a whole lot of songs like when she was 30, but then... she's 68. She likes the stuff that is successful and doesn't like stuff that won't be "successful". To her the tradeoff in suffering (such as it is) in the studio isn't worth the payoff..... she's happy being an oldies act.
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  #44  
Old 12-10-2016, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
she could actually write about losing her dad, her mom, getting older
Nah already done:


However jokes aside, I like this idea and I wonder why she didn't find inspiration in the experiences of loss that she endured these years. With age comes wisdom and I'm sure she could still come out with something immensely valuable.

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what's she gonna write about? Having her yogurt treat before bed??
I actually do that too.
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  #45  
Old 12-10-2016, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
well it's like on SYW.... she was content to hand over a bunch of old demos but then got a taste of what Lindsey was bringing and that got her competitive side going and she decided she didn't want just old stuff, she had to step up and crank out some songs.... and she managed to bring 4 new ones...not her best, perhaps, (ahem, Silver Girl) and she recycled lyrics on the same album (Illume and Destiny Rules) though I actually like Destiny Rules and Thrown Down is pretty damn good. It just seems to be so much more work for her these days..her musical vocabulary is sooooo rudimentary and she's run out of all the ways to combine her same 4 chords and make them new. Even, and I hate to say it, but her lyrics have gone downhill from her heyday. Not that she can't occasionally still bring it but honestly..... I just don't think she has that much to write about anymore. Like she said for her solo album reissues and 24k (same vintage) those were her "sex and drugs and rock and roll" songs and she adds that she couldn't ever write those kinds of songs again. what's she gonna write about? Having her yogurt treat before bed?? : O Kidding....she could actually write about losing her dad, her mom, getting older, whatever, but maybe she feels that doesn't lend itself to upbeat rocking songs. Who knows. I mean she is a writer whose bread and butter is songs about a)tumultuous relationships or b)witches, ghosts, spirits. She can still write about the first stuff just based on past events, or come up with some new stuff for the second topic. But she just doesn't seem that inspired to write a whole lot of songs like when she was 30, but then... she's 68. She likes the stuff that is successful and doesn't like stuff that won't be "successful". To her the tradeoff in suffering (such as it is) in the studio isn't worth the payoff..... she's happy being an oldies act.
I loooooove Thrown Down. It's my favorite song of hers from this century. I also really liked Goodbye Baby.

I think it's that a lot of her songs were about her intense love affairs and all that stuff which she hasn't had in a long time so she can't write that same way anymore. I remember on one interview for the EP she commented how she can't write a song like Without You ever again because she doesn't know what it's like to be in love like that anymore.
But she still has so many old poems she could dig out so I don't think it's a matter of not having songs. And you made a good point, I feel like she could've written some great stuff after her mother died because it was such a huge loss for her.
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