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  #76  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:27 PM
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BlueDenimLamp BlueDenimLamp is offline
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Originally Posted by wheart View Post
OK this is making me somewhat crazy!! WTF are they doing? I Need to Know!!!
Is that a TP/SN reference?
The steel guitar makes me think they are re-recording "Cheaper Than Free" just like they did with "Crystal"

Only joking because I know if that happened many Ledgies would be flinging themselves off of the nearest tall object...
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  #77  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:28 PM
gypsy4life gypsy4life is offline
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I left The Ledge quite some time ago because of the negativity about the band...I have checked back a couple of times since the news of Christine's return.
I am excited to see the fab five this October...something I thought I would never get to do!
As far as Stevie recording and Dave producing..and who is doing this or that...I feel they have all been doing this long enough to decide what they want, for themselves, and create in peace!
God knows they have earned the right!
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  #78  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:39 PM
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Johnny Stew Johnny Stew is offline
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Brief tangent, not directed at anyone... I always find it fascinating that most fans seem to want Lindsey's vision for his music to be unobstructed by outside producers, influences, etc. They want pure, unadulterated Buckingham. Yet, it seems to be the general consensus that Stevie's vision needs someone to edit it, strengthen it, make it "more coherent," and so on.

Granted, Stevie does need help bringing her music to fruition. She's not a multi-instrumentalist like Lindsey. She's not an arranger like he is. She doesn't have his production skills. But, all that said, she knows how she wants her songs to sound. And she certainly knows what she wants her songs to convey, and how she wants to use her lyrics to express that.

I loved that Dave made that possible for Stevie. He provided what she needed from a production stand-point, but he let her vision come through as unfiltered by his own lens as possible. 'In Your Dreams' may not be a perfect album, but it's a pretty damn terrific one, and I never tire of listening to it.

As for Fleetwood Mac... I don't think there has to be tension for them to create great music as a band. That's become their mythology. They've bought into it as much as we do. Yet fantastic music can be created without conflict or friction. So if they have to embrace a new approach to recording -- one designed to keep strife at a minimum so that everyone's willing to participate -- I'm all for it.
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  #79  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:47 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
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Originally Posted by shackin'up View Post
But working with Buckingham has never been that way. If we want a good FM album with these five, there has to be a little tension between them.
And this point is not lost on Stevie. She's said the same thing herself in fact, about her and Lindsey creating good music through the, due to the, friction. She recognized that their songs would be pallid without it. She knows that, but I guess she would just prefer not to make good music with FM anymore, at that price, and thinks that life is too short for the stress.

I'd like all of them to do it together, but if it's not feasible, I'll take 4 working together and Stevie doing more of her own thing. If Christine is there playing piano, all the better.

Michele
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  #80  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:48 PM
MikeVielhaber MikeVielhaber is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew View Post
Brief tangent, not directed at anyone... I always find it fascinating that most fans seem to want Lindsey's vision for his music to be unobstructed by outside producers, influences, etc. They want pure, unadulterated Buckingham. Yet, it seems to be the general consensus that Stevie's vision needs someone to edit it, strengthen it, make it "more coherent," and so on.

Granted, Stevie does need help bringing her music to fruition. She's not a multi-instrumentalist like Lindsey. She's not an arranger like he is. She doesn't have his production skills. But, all that said, she knows how she wants her songs to sound. And she certainly knows what she wants her songs to convey, and how she wants to use her lyrics to express that.

I loved that Dave made that possible for Stevie. He provided what she needed from a production stand-point, but he let her vision come through as unfiltered by his own lens as possible. 'In Your Dreams' may not be a perfect album, but it's a pretty damn terrific one, and I never tire of listening to it.

As for Fleetwood Mac... I don't think there has to be tension for them to create great music as a band. That's become their mythology. They've bought into it as much as we do. Yet fantastic music can be created without conflict or friction. So if they have to embrace a new approach to recording -- one designed to keep strife at a minimum so that everyone's willing to participate -- I'm all for it.
Well for a Fleetwood Mac song I do think Lindsey should have input on the arrangement and production of Stevie's songs. If she wants her songs unfiltered she can do a solo album. I want Lindsey's input on Christine's songs too.

And if there is no tension in this band than either you have yes men or you happen to have people who agree on everything...which isn't going to happen.
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  #81  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:52 PM
jcfree jcfree is offline
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johnnystew, I like your perspective! Stevie had a phenomenal experience writing songs with Dave Stewart and she had such a positive year long journey working with Dave on creating and bringing IYD to fruition. If Dave is her choice to help with her songs for a new FM album, why not? I love IYD and I think it is right up there with her Bella Donna debut album. So excited to have FM put out a new album with the "five fireflies."
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  #82  
Old 04-21-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber View Post
Well for a Fleetwood Mac song I do think Lindsey should have input on the arrangement and production of Stevie's songs. If she wants her songs unfiltered she can do a solo album. I want Lindsey's input on Christine's songs too.

And if there is no tension in this band than either you have yes men or you happen to have people who agree on everything...which isn't going to happen.
I don't think that it has to be an either/or situation. The band members don't have to be unhappy, and they don't have to work with "yes" men (Dave Stewart is certainly not some mere "yes" man).

I also don't think that an outside producer on Stevie's songs is going to preclude Lindsey from offering input on various elements, or from bringing his unique style. His stamp is unmistakable on "Solder's Angel," for example, and yet Dave Stewart was the producer.

And if the entire band is playing on her tracks (which I have no reason to believe they wouldn't), it's still going to sound like Fleetwood Mac, even if Lindsey's not producing. (He didn't have a hand in producing the white album, and that was still pretty fantastic.)
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  #83  
Old 04-21-2014, 03:44 PM
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shackin'up shackin'up is offline
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Pure Buckingham is not what I ever stood for in FM. I know you are not directing at anybody, Stew! but still! I even suggested Jack White or Jim O' Rourke (Sonic youth) as a producer for his soloalbums in person to him.

I don't care who's producing, as long as it is someone with a vision on engineering and who can work with LB himself. So a strong character. For the rest I want the band to build songs together. And of course, with Lindsey's approach to songwriting, he needs to ensure a Fleetwood mac sound fitting in the timeframe. That's vision. That, and his ability to arrange, I want a friggin fleetwood mac record, made by the 5. the last one was called Mirage. Or maybe even Tusk.
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  #84  
Old 04-21-2014, 04:44 PM
MikeVielhaber MikeVielhaber is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew View Post
I don't think that it has to be an either/or situation. The band members don't have to be unhappy, and they don't have to work with "yes" men (Dave Stewart is certainly not some mere "yes" man).

I also don't think that an outside producer on Stevie's songs is going to preclude Lindsey from offering input on various elements, or from bringing his unique style. His stamp is unmistakable on "Solder's Angel," for example, and yet Dave Stewart was the producer.

And if the entire band is playing on her tracks (which I have no reason to believe they wouldn't), it's still going to sound like Fleetwood Mac, even if Lindsey's not producing. (He didn't have a hand in producing the white album, and that was still pretty fantastic.)
I'm sure he had a big hand in arranging the songs though. But that's what I mean. It can't be just purely Stevie's vision in FM. The band is going to change it just by playing on it. They'll never just be side musicians to play the parts Stevie tells them to play. And they, Lindsey especially, will always have strong opinions. So I don't believe it's possible for them to make an album that's rainbows and sunshine because they all have egos and there will be conflict and tension. It's inevitable. Stevie doesn't have to deal with anybody else's ego on solo albums. If she's looking to avoid all that entirely and have another experience like IYD then she shouldn't be recording with the band. Putting Dave Stewart in the equation isn't going to magically make that happen.

Last edited by MikeVielhaber : 04-21-2014 at 04:46 PM.
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  #85  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:06 PM
Matt Lucas Matt Lucas is offline
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Hello all---

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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
That being said, Fleetwood Mac is an entirely different animal. Christine & Lindsey seem to totally feed off the musical conflict of working out songs. It brings out the best in both of them creatively. They challenge & respect each other musically. It's sort of like musical crossfit for them. This back & forth is part of what makes Fleetwood Mac rise to greatness.
This is exactly what I’ve been thinking. Perfectly stated.

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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
Stevie has admitted since the 1970s that she doesn't care for that sort of thing when it comes to her own music. She doesn't like tampering with her vision, changing/paring her lyrics, etc. She brings forth a flower bud and expects Fleetwood Mac to simply provide the water which allows it to bloom. This is probably why she's been so reticent to record with the band again, especially after the empowering & affirming stint with Dave Stewart. For the first time in her career, she got to work exactly as she'd always dreamed. Now she has to go back to being 1/5 of a group. Which means she has less of a say in the music that has her name on it, and in the end, back to compromise.
If writing with Dave makes Stevie happy, then I hope she continues to do so to her heart’s content. And I don’t even mind if she brings those songs to the band…

…as long as Dave doesn’t produce the sessions. His sound is a fine match for Stevie’s solo work, but not a Fleetwood Mac record.

And the possibility of the album being a combination of songs from two different sessions [Lindsey and the band on one hand, Dave’s sessions on the other] is bad news for anyone hoping for a last great album. It might have a few great songs, but it’s hard to combine different sessions overseen by different producers into one cohesive album.

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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
Does this mean I think Dave Stewart should produce Fleetwood Mac? Absolutely not. I think it'd be disastrous. Fleetwood Mac needs creative friction, not just a yes man. I also foresee it being a trainwreck if Lindsey produces his & Christine's songs, but Dave produces Stevie's. I think ideally for me, Lindsey should produce everyone's songs with another producer who will provide a second opinion.
I agree that the interaction---and part of that is the friction---is what makes the magic. And I don’t think Lindsey’s music should be immune to input from the others. If he intends to dish it out, he should be ready to take it, too.

If he includes a stupid lyric in a song---and let’s face it, he’s written some silly ones over the years---he should be prepared for it to be criticized by the rest of the band, including Stevie. The back and forth is what makes a band a band. Otherwise, you can just do it all yourself [like a lot of Lindsey's solo work] or call Dave Stewart and some backing musicians. Neither of those options comes with a fraction of the magic that Fleetwood Mac brings.

It’s also funny that Stevie’s Dylan defense was noted. When I first saw DESTINY RULES, I nearly laughed out loud when she said that to Lindsey, who was, himself, clearly biting a hole in his lip to keep from shooting back a blunt response.

The fact that she would compare herself to Dylan is pretty funny, really. I was discussing this with a friend who’s a music critic for a major US newspaper, and he told me that Dylan himself used to ask for and get criticism from famed poet Allen Ginsberg. “It’s a shame she doesn’t see the value in having somebody question the process,” my friend said. And, in Stevie’s defense, it might be that she’s okay with someone else---Christine, maybe---questioning her lyrics. But not Lindsey. And that would be understandable, given their history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp View Post
How can John, Christine, Mick and Stevie NOT sound like Fleetwood Mac???
Because John, Christine, Mick, and Stevie aren’t Fleetwood Mac. They are 4/5 of the group. And if Dave Stewart is behind the board, they won’t sound like Fleetwood Mac much at all. They’ll sound like Dave Stewart producing a band that sounds a little like Fleetwood Mac.

And, for the record, I want Waddy’s “set-up.” Cool old amps.

matt
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  #86  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:18 PM
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Johnny Stew Johnny Stew is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber View Post
I'm sure he had a big hand in arranging the songs though. But that's what I mean. It can't be just purely Stevie's vision in FM. The band is going to change it just by playing on it. They'll never just be side musicians to play the parts Stevie tells them to play. And they, Lindsey especially, will always have strong opinions. So I don't believe it's possible for them to make an album that's rainbows and sunshine because they all have egos and there will be conflict and tension. It's inevitable. Stevie doesn't have to deal with anybody else's ego on solo albums. If she's looking to avoid all that entirely and have another experience like IYD then she shouldn't be recording with the band. Putting Dave Stewart in the equation isn't going to magically make that happen.
I'm sorry, Mike -- I didn't mean to imply that I thought (or expected) Stevie's new Mac songs should be purely her vision. I'd expect and want the other Maccers to have input, too. I suspect Stevie would also want that.

I just feel that it's very possible, and still creatively viable, for Lindsey's input into Stevie's songs to come from his role as a musician in the band and not as a producer. With someone else producing, Lindsey can still contribute musically in a significant way, but without the added tensions that seem to arise when he's also wearing the producer's hat.

So, no, I don't expect things in the Mac world to ever be all sunshine and rainbows. But, as I see it, there are absolutely ways to keep the negatives to a minimum and have a less angst-ridden working environment, while still creating some great music.
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  #87  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:46 PM
Kubrick2788 Kubrick2788 is offline
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If she is in fact recording a new solo album I would like The Dealer to finally be recorded and released. It's one of the more enjoyable (and good groove) demos she has lying around. Chris can play some funky piano for it and Stevie's voice could still do it justice. That is really all I have to say about this one. I'll listen to whatever she comes up with, but IYD was a bit of a mixed bag for me. Anything that is inspired by Twilight, no matter how small a part of the whole it is, cannot be too good.
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  #88  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:12 PM
HelloMonster HelloMonster is offline
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Originally Posted by shackin'up View Post
I even suggested Jack White or Jim O' Rourke (Sonic youth) as a producer for his soloalbums in person to him.
Ooh I like that! I loved his collab with Loretta Lynn. Very different
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  #89  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:47 PM
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What truly is a head scratcher to me, are people on this board (in this thread and others), who can't imagine, or actually fathom Dave Stewart co-producing - maybe two or three - Fleetwood Mac tracks. Rob Cavello & John Shanks co-produced tracks on SYW - their involvement didn't make the songs any less Fleetwood Mac-y Mitchell Froom co-produced "Sad Angel" & Miss Fantasy" on "Extended Play", and they sure as hell sounded just like Mac songs! Maybe fans need a reminder that Fleetwood Mac (and Lindsey) have a long history of bringing in co-producers (Richard Dashut, Ken Caillat, Keith Olsen, Elliot Scheiner, etc.) and that the FM world & sound did not come to an end.

And it was Dave Stewart, out of ALL of Stevie's solo producers, that brought Stevie back to her classic & most Mac-y sounding solo record. "Soldiers Angel" and "Annabel Lee" especially. And, yes, it should go without saying, that Stevie is able to branch out and record songs like "Italian Summer", "Everybody Loves You" & "Wide Sargasso Sea" solo, but within FM, I have no doubt they will be sticking to the what works within the confines of what the band is recording.
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  #90  
Old 04-21-2014, 07:06 PM
dontlookdown dontlookdown is offline
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I think Dave Stewart involvement is a good thing.
And don't forget that he has always been friendly with tons of LA-based musicians - Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and Lindsey included.

Don't think there's really any drama unfolding. This is a good thing and healthy for the band.
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