The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Rumours
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 04-20-2014, 10:34 PM
Jondalar's Avatar
Jondalar Jondalar is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
I didn't even like what he did with Stevie. I have nothing against the guy, but it seems from the IYD doc that the reason Stevie thinks he's so great is that he never tried to criticize her in any way, shape, or form... And that includes constructive criticism. However, I think she needs constructive criticism to do her best work. If he won't give it to her, I don't want him producing a Mac album.... not even some of it.
He helped her come up with some real songs. Not the free flowing nonsensical crap. She really tried to come up with some good lyrics.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 04-20-2014, 11:15 PM
sywlindseyfan's Avatar
sywlindseyfan sywlindseyfan is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jondalar View Post
He helped her come up with some real songs. Not the free flowing nonsensical crap. She really tried to come up with some good lyrics.
Jondalar, I enjoyed IYD very very much, but I must take a jab at your stement of nonsensical writing.

What's faster then a fast car?
A beating heart

or

More exciting then high fashion?
High passion

I guess it makes sense, but just funny. I do understand where you are coming from though. I absolutely love the whole album, great images, great stories.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 04-20-2014, 11:32 PM
sodascouts's Avatar
sodascouts sodascouts is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Memphis area
Posts: 3,795
Default

That song is full of wretched lyrics. "What's deeper than a deep well? The love into which I fell" is another demonstration that not all the fruits of their collaborations were stellar. I actually enjoy several songs on IYD, but it was a step down from TISL and I blame that partly on a producer who didn't challenge her. However, I can see why Dave would not be the person to help her with lyrics. She won't let anyone give her constructive criticism on her lyrics if what we see on the docs is any indication. That's too bad. Even Shakespeare had collaborators, after all!
__________________
- Nancy

Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 04-20-2014, 11:43 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,803
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
That song is full of wretched lyrics. "What's deeper than a deep well? The love into which I fell" is another demonstration that not all the fruits of their collaborations were stellar. I actually enjoy several songs on IYD, but it was a step down from TISL and I blame that partly on a producer who didn't challenge her. However, I can see why Dave would not be the person to help her with lyrics. She won't let anyone give her constructive criticism on her lyrics if what we see on the docs is any indication. That's too bad. Even Shakespeare had collaborators, after all!
You wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:01 AM
HomerMcvie's Avatar
HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Indiana/Tennessee
Posts: 9,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
You wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan.
I would say it to them both!
__________________
and Stevie Nicks was starting to lumber along like a sod-packed wheelbarrow.
And I'm David, not Homer!(we all should be able to change our name, at least once)
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:14 AM
sodascouts's Avatar
sodascouts sodascouts is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Memphis area
Posts: 3,795
Default

You know poor Lindsey had to bite his tongue hard not to give a snarky reply to that line. She'd left herself wide open.

In all seriousness, I love Stevie's lyrics much of the time. I think she's an incredible songwriter. Along with her expressive voice, that's why I'm such a huge fan. That said, I think her refusal to listen to constructive criticism has led to large missteps that would not have occurred if she had been more open to feedback from other people.

Dave surrounded her with pillows to keep a smile on her face, but the best songwriting is never done is a cocoon.
__________________
- Nancy


Last edited by sodascouts : 04-21-2014 at 12:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:50 AM
Jondalar's Avatar
Jondalar Jondalar is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sywlindseyfan View Post
Jondalar, I enjoyed IYD very very much, but I must take a jab at your stement of nonsensical writing.

What's faster then a fast car?
A beating heart

or

More exciting then high fashion?
High passion

I guess it makes sense, but just funny. I do understand where you are coming from though. I absolutely love the whole album, great images, great stories.
At least it is a real thought out song and I liked it. TISL was a very uneven album but I think the material was a lot better on IYD. Plus the songs didn't sound the same.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 04-21-2014, 03:04 AM
sywlindseyfan's Avatar
sywlindseyfan sywlindseyfan is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jondalar View Post
At least it is a real thought out song and I liked it. TISL was a very uneven album but I think the material was a lot better on IYD. Plus the songs didn't sound the same.
Jondalar, l enjoyed Cheaper than Free very much.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 04-21-2014, 07:53 AM
teedeerocks teedeerocks is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
I didn't even like what he did with Stevie. I have nothing against the guy, but it seems from the IYD doc that the reason Stevie thinks he's so great is that he never tried to criticize her in any way, shape, or form... And that includes constructive criticism. However, I think she needs constructive criticism to do her best work. If he won't give it to her, I don't want him producing a Mac album.... not even some of it.
Totally agree.I think Lindsey goes too far with her sometimes due to their personal past but at the same time she needs a little constuctive criticism.Stevie loves to be in charge and Dave Stewart was just kinda like a fly on the wall and didn't make any waves.The whole process therefore of IYD was a combination of total control and fun,fun,fun.As A result I thought IYD was a dud except for a few songs.She even said that all Dave had to do was look at her face and if he saw any displeasure in her expression he would switch gears.Now that's control!Or he's just a p....y
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 04-21-2014, 09:28 AM
louielouie2000's Avatar
louielouie2000 louielouie2000 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 6,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teedeerocks View Post
Totally agree.I think Lindsey goes too far with her sometimes due to their personal past but at the same time she needs a little constuctive criticism.Stevie loves to be in charge and Dave Stewart was just kinda like a fly on the wall and didn't make any waves.The whole process therefore of IYD was a combination of total control and fun,fun,fun.As A result I thought IYD was a dud except for a few songs.She even said that all Dave had to do was look at her face and if he saw any displeasure in her expression he would switch gears.Now that's control!Or he's just a p....y
When it comes to Stevie's solo career, she's the boss- plain & simple. If she doesn't like a particular producer, style of working, or sound, it's her prerogative and even her duty to fix those issues. I think after recording under unabashedly domineering men for decades, it was Stevie's turn to take the reigns on her solo music. And that's just what she did for In Your Dreams. I personally think the end product was fantastic- it was probably the purest incarnation of Stevie as an artist that we've ever heard. Yes, there are clunkers on In Your Dreams. But Stevie has recorded clunkers since Buckingham Nicks onward.

That being said, Fleetwood Mac is an entirely different animal. Christine & Lindsey seem to totally feed off the musical conflict of working out songs. It brings out the best in both of them creatively. They challenge & respect each other musically. It's sort of like musical crossfit for them. This back & forth is part of what makes Fleetwood Mac rise to greatness.

Stevie has admitted since the 1970s that she doesn't care for that sort of thing when it comes to her own music. She doesn't like tampering with her vision, changing/paring her lyrics, etc. She brings forth a flower bud and expects Fleetwood Mac to simply provide the water which allows it to bloom. This is probably why she's been so reticent to record with the band again, especially after the empowering & affirming stint with Dave Stewart. For the first time in her career, she got to work exactly as she'd always dreamed. Now she has to go back to being 1/5 of a group. Which means she has less of a say in the music that has her name on it, and in the end, back to compromise.

Does this mean I think Dave Stewart should produce Fleetwood Mac? Absolutely not. I think it'd be disastrous. Fleetwood Mac needs creative friction, not just a yes man. I also foresee it being a trainwreck if Lindsey produces his & Christine's songs, but Dave produces Stevie's. I think ideally for me, Lindsey should produce everyone's songs with another producer who will provide a second opinion.
__________________
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a382/louielouie2000/The_Plant_-_Sausalito_-_front_door_2.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 04-21-2014, 10:48 AM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 24,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
When it comes to Stevie's solo career, she's the boss- plain & simple. If she doesn't like a particular producer, style of working, or sound, it's her prerogative and even her duty to fix those issues. I think after recording under unabashedly domineering men for decades, it was Stevie's turn to take the reigns on her solo music. And that's just what she did for In Your Dreams.
And that's why she likes it so much and, at this point in her career, she should definitely be putting out albums that she likes that aren't constructed to either appeal to the masses or to any producer's vision.

So, I have no problem with IYD. I just think that Dave is as good as his source material and, until they split up and I saw their subsequent work and could assess them separately, I didn't know how much more Annie Lennox actually brought to their combo.

Michele
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:43 PM
KenB KenB is offline
Senior Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sywlindseyfan View Post
Jondalar, I enjoyed IYD very very much, but I must take a jab at your stement of nonsensical writing.

What's faster then a fast car?
A beating heart

or

More exciting then high fashion?
High passion

I guess it makes sense, but just funny. I do understand where you are coming from though. I absolutely love the whole album, great images, great stories.
Here's how I feel about "Cheaper Than Free": It's a bad song that I nevertheless sort of enjoy. As for IYD in general, when it first came out I thought it was Stevie's best work in decades. Today, though, I rarely listen to anything from it other than "For What It's Worth," which I do love. I think my high appraisal of IYD was just a result of that initial new-album excitement. "New Orleans," "Moonlight" and especially "Wide Sargasso Sea" are just horrendous.

I'm glad Dave Stewart helped make the recording experience a pleasant one for Stevie, but the result isn't something I want to listen to very often, with the exception of maybe three tracks.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 04-21-2014, 01:32 PM
shackin'up's Avatar
shackin'up shackin'up is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: bemmel/lowlands
Posts: 6,912
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenB View Post
Here's how I feel about "Cheaper Than Free": It's a bad song that I nevertheless sort of enjoy. As for IYD in general, when it first came out I thought it was Stevie's best work in decades. Today, though, I rarely listen to anything from it other than "For What It's Worth," which I do love. I think my high appraisal of IYD was just a result of that initial new-album excitement. "New Orleans," "Moonlight" and especially "Wide Sargasso Sea" are just horrendous.

I'm glad Dave Stewart helped make the recording experience a pleasant one for Stevie, but the result isn't something I want to listen to very often, with the exception of maybe three tracks.
Now there's a realistic reading of what is IYD. I'm very glad too, that Dave brought her back to recording in good collaboration, and relaxed spirit. But working with Buckingham has never been that way. If we want a good FM album with these five, there has to be a little tension between them. Chemistry is not the same thing as pampering eachother and make it a smooth and happy time. Ofcourse, you have to find balance, which obviously has not always been there in the past, but walking away from friction is not going to bring good art. Lindsey must be there. So should Mick be? Ofcourse I want John there too, but he can take his time now.

It's just a shame that Stevie doesn't want to build songs with Lindsey from the ground up. I hope she will do that together with Chris, but I hoped Lindsey would be there to play guitar.

Sorry Louielouie2000, I just read your excellent post (minus the Hail for IYD, ;-) ) this is basicly a repetition of that what you wrote. But in my own dutch english.
__________________
..........................................................................................






Last edited by shackin'up : 04-21-2014 at 01:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 04-21-2014, 01:47 PM
BlueDenimLamp's Avatar
BlueDenimLamp BlueDenimLamp is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,112
Default







Dave is tweeting...
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:10 PM
wheart's Avatar
wheart wheart is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 2,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp View Post






Dave is tweeting...
OK this is making me somewhat crazy!! WTF are they doing? I Need to Know!!!
__________________

I remember it all...you just had to fall...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved