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  #46  
Old 03-30-2012, 08:29 AM
mezzoforte mezzoforte is offline
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Originally Posted by David View Post
If I interpreted the response Ken got correctly, it doesn't mean "Lindsey is writing a book." It means "Take a hike, buddy. I'm his manager now and I'm not even going to pass on your request to him. I'm in power and I'll decide whether and when Lindsey Buckingham does anything for you." Lindsey's not writing any book.

He has a bitchy little manager--as do the others--who functions exactly the way mid-management functions in a big company: as a buffer, as a way of keeping the rank-and-file employees (meaning old colleagues, fans, and press) at a great distance.

Stevie, too. She has proved over and over (like yesterday on TV) that she herself is a sweet, affable person. But that is not her management, and has never been. They are little twerps whose purpose is to keep people out. Whatever the girl's name is (Karen?), she is a nobody who has been given great power to abuse people's starry-eyed love, and who very successfully buffers her boss from anyone she chooses. She is a mid-manager: she doesn't produce the product and she doesn't create the vision for the product. She's just the Human Resources woman, monitoring behavior.

Ken is just extremely frustrated with the management surrounding the group. On the one hand, I don't blame him, but on the other, he himself has been in the business so long, he ought to be used to it. He also probably had buffers around him during the Rumours years.

Stevie's not perfect, and her management is not evil.
Do you really think the five minute view we get of a woman who knows she's being filmed is completely accurate? I love Stevie, but we don't know her personally, nor do we know her management or her assistant. I'm so tired of all the Karen bashing, because we just have no idea. The people around Stevie are doing their jobs, and clearly doing them in a way that Stevie's satisfied with. That's all we need to know.
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Last edited by mezzoforte : 03-30-2012 at 08:44 AM.
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  #47  
Old 03-30-2012, 08:55 AM
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It's kinda fitting... the band did not take her seriously one iota back in the day, but now she's the one wielding all the power. Karma's a b*tch.
Good point!!

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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC View Post
No, I think he was referring to IYD. If you recall, sometime around October of 2010, Stevie and Dave were back at the Village Recorders for a couple of weeks to lay down the drum tracks. All of the other tracks were recorded at Stevie's house, so I suspect Ken was exaggerating when he said that the entire album had to be recorded in two weeks.
Ken wasn't exaggerating. Stevie is the one prone to that...

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One of the things that makes Fleetwood Mac interesting is the politics. They occasionally like to talk sh** about each other in the press, but at the end of the day, they circle the wagons very tightly around each other- the fab five. Fleetwood Mac the band comes first, and everyone else on the periphery of the Fleetwood Mac universe, including Ken Caillat and Judy Wong, is expendable. This explains why, after all of the years of estrangement, Christine still puts the interests of Fleetwood Mac ahead of everything else. Nobody tells Fleetwood Mac what to do. They get around to working when they want to and they make decisions democratically. Stevie, Lindsey, Christine, John and Mick know better than to upset the tenuous balance they have with each other, even to this day.

And given the sh**storm that brewed after Mick's book, I suspect everyone else would have been similarly guarded. They've all learned their lessons about loyalty and trust. "Do not break the chain" resonates more today than it ever has in the past.
Totally agree. When it comes down to it, they hash things out and unite.

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Originally Posted by mezzoforte View Post

Stevie's not perfect, and her management is not evil.
Do you really think the view we get of a person in five minutes when she knows she's being filmed is completely accurate? I love Stevie, but we don't know her personally, nor do we know her management or her assistant. I'm so tired of all the Karen bashing, because we just have no idea. The people around Stevie are doing their jobs, and clearly doing them in a way that Stevie's satisfied with. That's all we need to know.
Well, we don't know them - but we have eye witness accounts of both Stevie and Karen. Stevie may be a diva of sorts and have bad moments, but usually everyone says she had a big heart and is a sweetheart. And that Karen is a bulldog - and she is paid to be that way. I bet she's a nice enough person...
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  #48  
Old 03-30-2012, 08:59 AM
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Good point!!


Well, we don't know them - but we have eye witness accounts of both Stevie and Karen. Stevie may be a diva of sorts and have bad moments, but usually everyone says she had a big heart and is a sweetheart. And that Karen is a bulldog - and she is paid to be that way. I bet she's a nice enough person...
Look... you can't be a personal assistant for someone like Stevie unless you are tough and fiercely protective. Stevie doesn't need another girlfriend; she needs someone who can run errands but also kick some butt when the need arises.
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  #49  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC View Post
Look... you can't be a personal assistant for someone like Stevie unless you are tough and fiercely protective. Stevie doesn't need another girlfriend; she needs someone who can run errands but also kick some butt when the need arises.
Absolutely.
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  #50  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:23 AM
seekerj seekerj is offline
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I just can't stand reading anything by Ken or Keith Olsen, not even their Q&A's on this site. They both think they know everything, and for some reason, they seem to think they are stars as much as the band is.
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  #51  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:39 AM
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I just love the fact that such a negative response is being garnered in this thread...and he's a member of the site. I can see him sitting down with a cup of Tea at the computer, thinking 'Right. Let's see how mah booky wook's doing', scanning this thread and completely deflating haha. I suppose it must be like when you hear a group of people having a derogatory conversation about you, but they don't know you're there.
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  #52  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC View Post
No, I think he was referring to IYD. If you recall, sometime around October of 2010, Stevie and Dave were back at the Village Recorders for a couple of weeks to lay down the drum tracks. All of the other tracks were recorded at Stevie's house, so I suspect Ken was exaggerating when he said that the entire album had to be recorded in two weeks.

One of the things that makes Fleetwood Mac interesting is the politics. They occasionally like to talk sh** about each other in the press, but at the end of the day, they circle the wagons very tightly around each other- the fab five. Fleetwood Mac the band comes first, and everyone else on the periphery of the Fleetwood Mac universe, including Ken Caillat and Judy Wong, is expendable. This explains why, after all of the years of estrangement, Christine still puts the interests of Fleetwood Mac ahead of everything else. Nobody tells Fleetwood Mac what to do. They get around to working when they want to and they make decisions democratically. Stevie, Lindsey, Christine, John and Mick know better than to upset the tenuous balance they have with each other, even to this day.

I suspect that last year, when Ken spoke so glowingly about Lindsey at the TEC awards, he was probably still optimistic that he could twist Lindsey's arm into sitting down for an interview. In a way, I'm kinda glad Lindsey refused. If Lindsey actively participated in Ken's book, I suspect it would have been a puff piece extolling the virtues of Lindsey rather than a decidedly unflattering magnifying glass onto the band, which would have made it a less interesting read. Also, Lindsey tends to recycle the same spiel over and over again in print articles, so why would this have been any different? Is there a reason to believe that Lindsey, the heavily fortified mental fortress that he is, would have offered any tantalizing new morsels of info? I suspect not. And given the sh**storm that brewed after Mick's book, I suspect everyone else would have been similarly guarded. They've all learned their lessons about loyalty and trust. "Do not break the chain" resonates more today than it ever has in the past.
Thanks for this intelligent post!
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  #53  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:34 AM
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Yes, but that duty has to end at some point. When was Judy last even involved with FM?
TITN was dedicated to her. She was thanked in the liner notes of BTM. That is the last mention I noticed.
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  #54  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:39 AM
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"When the last insult comes down from your friends. Hoping all your blind ambition will fall. And the love you know has come to an end. And the silence answers your call ..."
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  #55  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:44 AM
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Whomever has to edit that thing is going to have a Herculean task on their hands.
Haha yes, can you imagine!
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  #56  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:12 AM
MrStevie MrStevie is offline
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Originally Posted by Silver Springs View Post
I just love the fact that such a negative response is being garnered in this thread...and he's a member of the site. I can see him sitting down with a cup of Tea at the computer, thinking 'Right. Let's see how mah booky wook's doing', scanning this thread and completely deflating haha. I suppose it must be like when you hear a group of people having a derogatory conversation about you, but they don't know you're there.
I doesn't hurt for Ken to know what fans are thinking. I mean, who does he think his audience is? Is he selling books only to sound geeks and musicians? If he's peddling to the masses he should know some fans won't appreciate the way he cherry picks personal anecdotes in a way that taints his credibility. As a sound geek and musician I really wanted to buy the book before I read this intervew. I thought Ken was writing a serious book about the recording of Rumors, not the same old canned dirt we've read about in previous Mac tell alls. How is a card game in Tahoe relevant to recording Rumors other than finding a way to inject dirt that the publishers wanted in the mix? Didn't I read Ken refused to do that before the manuscript was rejected? Now this? The way the question was asked and answered, I'm not sure Ken said the blackjack incident was in the book or not, but the fact that he tossed that anecdote into the interview tells me he's on board with the standard FM marketing plan. Am I surprised he's dished the standard dirt using the same time tested script assured to only offend a marginal part of the fan base? Not really. But based on his own words before the book was rejected, I guess I expected more than that from Ken. I'm seriously disappionted. On the other hand, the masses will love it! Ken hasn't drifted very far off the reservation with his stereotypes of the band members. So far I haven't read anything new or enlightening. Nothing I didn't know before. Major bummer.
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  #57  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:13 AM
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"When the last insult comes down from your friends. Hoping all your blind ambition will fall. And the love you know has come to an end. And the silence answers your call ..."
PERFECT!
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  #58  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:28 AM
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I doesn't hurt for Ken to know what fans are thinking. I mean, who does he think his audience is? Is he selling books only to sound geeks and musicians? If he's peddling to the masses he should know some fans won't appreciate the way he cherry picks personal anecdotes in a way that taints his credibility. As a sound geek and musician I really wanted to buy the book before I read this intervew. I thought Ken was writing a serious book about the recording of Rumors, not the same old canned dirt we've read about in previous Mac tell alls. How is a card game in Tahoe relevant to recording Rumors other than finding a way to inject dirt that the publishers wanted in the mix? Didn't I read Ken refused to do that before the manuscript was rejected? Now this? The way the question was asked and answered, I'm not sure Ken said the blackjack incident was in the book or not, but the fact that he tossed that anecdote into the interview tells me he's on board with the standard FM marketing plan. Am I surprised he's dished the standard dirt using the same time tested script assured to only offend a marginal part of the fan base? Not really. But based on his own words before the book was rejected, I guess I expected more than that from Ken. I'm seriously disappionted. On the other hand, the masses will love it! Ken hasn't drifted very far off the reservation with his stereotypes of the band members. So far I haven't read anything new or enlightening. Nothing I didn't know before. Major bummer.
It's refreshing when I read of people actually noticing that there is a formula with every Fleetwood Mac dish we're served. Each book, no matter who the 'disher', is little more than timetabled gossip that wouldn't be out of place in a magazine. I never had any ambition to buy the book, because I knew what to expect. It's the same reason I stopped reading Mick's book when I bought it (for 50 pence, I feel I need to interject with) and didn't even bother cracking open Carol Ann's little serving. I'd love to hear even a collaborated effort, rather than one sided stories that could easily be refuted if another member could be bothered (or indeed find the financial incentive) to do so. I'd much rather hear about the music, the different routes the could have taken with the work, the struggles they've encountered in marketing and acquiring interest in order to sell their creations. Even the little myths and legends behind the lyrics. Not literary tit for tat. I just wish John would write a book on the Fleetwood Mac history, because given his stoic nature it could be exactly the route he chooses to take. After all, you never hear of him releasing these little tales and chinese whispers, do you? It's obvious with him that his unwavering passion is the music, not the band politics.
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  #59  
Old 03-30-2012, 12:11 PM
turquoise5 turquoise5 is offline
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As much as I can't wait to read Ken's book, and respect Ken, I don't think it's fair for the band to be expected to take care of former employees, decades after employment ended. Just because they have the money, doesn't mean it's their money, too!

I hope that Ray really didn't work for 3 years without a check! Now, if that's true, they should at least make that right.

I wasn't aware that Ray was no longer with them...does anyone know what happened???
Agreed. Employments end, friendships don't always last forever.
I certainly don't keep in touch with all my friends from 30-35 years ago. People's lives go in different directions. As far as former employers, why would I expect anything from them? I think it's up to each person to build on their past employment to further their careers (as Ken, to his credit, seems to have done; he certainly has worked with a lot of artists!).
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  #60  
Old 03-30-2012, 12:33 PM
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Wow. I don't know if the party is over for Fleetwood Mac.But I hope not.Time will tell.Shocking to hear about Judy Wong.How sad.
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