The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Rumours
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:10 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 24,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADreaming View Post
Speaking of Stevie....

I'm not naive enough to think Lindsey never lost his cool, went nuts and maybe got physically violent with a girlfriend or a co-worker. But, I'm not sure he was ever what could be classified as physically abusive or a 'woman-beater' because I don't think Stevie would have stayed with him. And, even if she would have, I don't think she would have ever been able to say that her Dad adored Lindsey and that he would always be in her life for that fact alone. I'll never be convinced Jess Nicks would "adore" a man who beat his daughter. I also don't think Stevie would have been comfortable hugging Lindsey or letting him hug her or drape his arm around her neck as he has done in every decade of photos I've seen. She would have kept her distance from him.
True, and her mother liked him too.

I get the impression about Lindsey and Stevie, not that they never tussled, but that even though he is obviously bigger and stronger than her that he never used more force on her than she used on him. She seems to have a bravado about her (i.e. when she said she'd beat up people with her tamborine and boots) that gives the impression that she thinks she can take care of herself physically even if we logically know she can't and I don't think someone who has been physically victimized would have that air.

It reminds me of her talking about beating up Chris until her father finally gave Chris permission to hit her back. Jess didn't think a boy should hit a girl, but when the older sister took advantage of that maxim, Jess relented and told Chris he could defend himself. Then, she stopped picking on her little brother. I think she has always imagined herself as tough -- even if she's not. And I'm sure she and Lindsey have tangled, but she just doesn't seem like she's been overpowered or made to cower.

I feel that she is aware of him physically though. I get the impression that she's more afraid of him saying things to her sometimes. I've said this before, but you know that video when she is bent over a steam machine? She and Robin are there and Lindsey starts approaching her from across the room and she seems really nervous the whole time he is walking. When he gets to her, he says something very innocuous like "hi girls" or something. But she seemed pretty jumpy. And every time they performed Angel, it looked to me like she was always wondering where he was. Like, "Is he coming to the mic? What's he doing? Where is he?"

But yeah what you said about the neck and the draping. I think we are all taken by that moment in Mirage where he comes and leans on her back and you just have this feeling that this man is coming and lying on her and she doesn't even pay attention because . . . I don't know . . . she's used to his body on hers.

Michele
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:15 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 24,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer View Post
Not to jump on Mick but while he likely wasn't physically abusive, he was mentally abusive to his older children whom both saw their father's drug use up close.

Matt
Mentally abusive just because he used drugs around them or because he lashed out at them while on drugs?

One of the bad memories I took away from I'll Sleep When I'm Dead was how bad Warren Zevon was to his children. He didn't hit them, but would physically push them away and just outright ignore them. Whenever Lindsey gives that line about being glad he waited until he had kids because he saw friends of his who didn't, I think of Zevon.

Michele
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:15 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 8,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMagic View Post
I've got mad love for Mr. Phil Freakin' Collins. You just can't beat the awesomeness of Easy Lover or Sussidio.
oh wow
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:39 PM
GreenMagic GreenMagic is offline
Junior Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
Default

@Elle -

If you noticed, I did say Phil's songs on an artistic level sucked. But man, in terms of sheer guilty pleasure/nostalgia, they are immensely enjoyable. I'm a 80's kid, what do you expect? I love Miami Vice too. And Knight Rider till I found out David Hasselhoff was a douche to a little girl on a movie set recently.

I enjoy Tango in The Night even if musically it's one of the Mac's weaker albums along with Mirage. They're still enjoyable to listen to from a nostalgic point of view.

Nothing wrong with guilty pleasures as long you got some legit quality stuff to balance it out. And I do I think
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:47 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 24,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMagic View Post

I enjoy Tango in The Night even if musically it's one of the Mac's weaker albums along with Mirage. They're still enjoyable to listen to from a nostalgic point of view.
Ooooh. I don't feel guilty about Tango at all. I think it's an album of mostly fine quality.

Michele
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:50 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 8,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMagic View Post
@Elle -

If you noticed, I did say Phil's songs on an artistic level sucked. But man, in terms of sheer guilty pleasure/nostalgia, they are immensely enjoyable. I'm a 80's kid, what do you expect? I love Miami Vice too. And Knight Rider till I found out David Hasselhoff was a douche to a little girl on a movie set recently.

I enjoy Tango in The Night even if musically it's one of the Mac's weaker albums along with Mirage. They're still enjoyable to listen to from a nostalgic point of view.

Nothing wrong with guilty pleasures as long you got some legit quality stuff to balance it out. And I do I think
no, definitely not - and we all have them! whatever makes the life enjoyable, even if you don't have any *quality* stuff to balance it out . just never could understand the appeal of his music so couldn't resist after you were going all hipstery on us
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-04-2012, 11:20 PM
GreenMagic GreenMagic is offline
Junior Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
Default

It's ok Elle, I'm still a recovering hipster. I do have lapses from time to time. I'm just glad I never turned into a hipster like Jack Black's character in High Fidelity.

That scene where he reams a customer for buying 80's Stevie Wonder over his 70's work like Talking Book shook me to the core. I was nowhere near as bad, but I was on the road to getting there. I like really questionable stupid crap too, so why would I judge someone else for it?

(Ok, ain't gonna lie I abhor Celine Dion and may possibly hold someone in contempt for liking her. Sorry, just heard that stupid Titanic song twice a day in the pharmacy I worked in. If that doesn't make some one get all Patrick Bateman I dont know what will.)

I basically learned to lighten up and not take music as seriously. It is still entertainment. Even if Celine or Kid Rock is the music of Satan
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-05-2012, 06:38 AM
Sanne2's Avatar
Sanne2 Sanne2 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMagic View Post

I enjoy Tango in The Night even if musically it's one of the Mac's weaker albums along with Mirage. They're still enjoyable to listen to from a nostalgic point of view.
:
I could not possibly disagree stronger. I HATE it when people file those 80's albums under "guilty pleasure", "nostalgie" or "oh boy, hear all those synths, how did we ever listen to this music?!" No, **** that, I say it loud & proud:
I THINK TANGO IN THE NIGHT IS A GREAT ALBUM
and Mirage too, but I like TITN more.
__________________

“Remember, in the grand scheme of things, what we do for a living is not very important. After all, we’re not curing cancer here.” - John McVie
http://goldduststevie.tumblr.com/

Last edited by Sanne2 : 08-05-2012 at 06:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-05-2012, 01:24 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 24,625
Default

^I love Mirage and it might be my favorite FM album, but it was my first "new" FM album and I realize I might be biased towards it. I became a fan after Tusk was released and, overall, I did not appreciate Tusk at the time. Mirage came out when I was a new fan and really into music, in general and I have always loved it, probably beyond what it merits.

Michele
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-05-2012, 03:56 PM
darkcat darkcat is offline
Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 91
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post



I feel that she is aware of him physically though. I get the impression that she's more afraid of him saying things to her sometimes. I've said this before, but you know that video when she is bent over a steam machine? She and Robin are there and Lindsey starts approaching her from across the room and she seems really nervous the whole time he is walking. When he gets to her, he says something very innocuous like "hi girls" or something. But she seemed pretty jumpy. And every time they performed Angel, it looked to me like she was always wondering where he was. Like, "Is he coming to the mic? What's he doing? Where is he?"

But yeah what you said about the neck and the draping. I think we are all taken by that moment in Mirage where he comes and leans on her back and you just have this feeling that this man is coming and lying on her and she doesn't even pay attention because . . . I don't know . . . she's used to his body on hers.

Michele
Ooooh let's talk more about that moment in Mirage. I absolutely love that, well the whole song, but especially that moment between Lindsey and Stevie. in spite of how much animosity they can have for each other they have such an amazing connection.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-05-2012, 05:56 PM
michelej1 michelej1 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 24,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkcat View Post
Ooooh let's talk more about that moment in Mirage. I absolutely love that, well the whole song, but especially that moment between Lindsey and Stevie. in spite of how much animosity they can have for each other they have such an amazing connection.
They've done something similar during Don't Stop in recent tours, but since they tend to do it every night, it doesn't have the same unique effect as it did when we watched that Mirage video and saw it for the first spontaneous time.

I think it's akin to muscle memory. People memory. That familiarity and comfort, ease you can have in relationship to another person, even if you're estranged or have been apart.

During Disney Going Home, Mick made me jealous when he talked about the Clinton performance, because I wish I'd been where he'd been. He said as they were getting ready to go on stage, he looked and he saw Lindsey and Stevie holding hands and Christine and John holding hands too as the band walked up and it was like the past had returned. Michele
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-05-2012, 08:39 PM
bombaysaffires bombaysaffires is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,803
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADreaming View Post
Speaking of Stevie....

I'm not naive enough to think Lindsey never lost his cool, went nuts and maybe got physically violent with a girlfriend or a co-worker. But, I'm not sure he was ever what could be classified as physically abusive or a 'woman-beater' because I don't think Stevie would have stayed with him. And, even if she would have, I don't think she would have ever been able to say that her Dad adored Lindsey and that he would always be in her life for that fact alone. I'll never be convinced Jess Nicks would "adore" a man who beat his daughter. I also don't think Stevie would have been comfortable hugging Lindsey or letting him hug her or drape his arm around her neck as he has done in every decade of photos I've seen. She would have kept her distance from him.
Oh I totally think there were physical altercations in their relationship. I think these two continue to have a co-dependent relationship, still a bit unhealthy to this day. Better than what it was, but still codependent. Lots of money at stake makes people tolerate a LOT of things.. and I do think having to still deal with each other during the aftermath of their breakup fed a lot of their drug use. I get the feeling Stevie's loyalty to Fleetwood Mac over many years has to do with Mick (and then Chris and John) rather than with Lindsey.

I think that has mellowed over the years but I still believe that when Stevie makes her comments about living through a "nightmare" and "no one knows what REALLY went on" with the band and her and Lindsey, his anger management issues are definitely part of what she refers to.

I totally agree with those who say LB has clearly had a lot of shrinkage over the years. He may never have overtly said so, but the language he uses is absolutely that of a therapy veteran (I spent the first half of my career as a clinician). I give him lots of credit for that and for much of the self-reflection he's done.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:07 AM
cliffdweller's Avatar
cliffdweller cliffdweller is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 4,862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombaysaffires View Post
I totally agree with those who say LB has clearly had a lot of shrinkage over the years.
It's because he was in the pool too long
__________________
<a href=http://i56.tinypic.com/142ybl0.jpg target=_blank>http://i56.tinypic.com/142ybl0.jpg</a>
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-06-2012, 10:47 AM
Nico's Avatar
Nico Nico is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,804
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMagic View Post
reluctant to keep following Lindsey as an artist following Ken Callait's book?

Sorry I forgot to introduce myself. I've been lurking here the last couple of months but never bothered to register till now. As you can tell from my name I'm a huge fan of the Peter Green Era.

I used to be dismissive of the Rumours lineup years ago. Cause my musical tastes tended to be more Alternative, Post Punk Art rock stuff like My Bloody Valentine, Roxy Music, X, Public Image Limited. And then years ago I got into Power Pop like Big Star Raspberries and The Beach Boys.

It wasnt until hearing Tusk I became a fan of the Stevie Lindsey lineup. I can appreciate Rumours and self-titled album now. Although I'm majorly burnt out on those two because of radio, grocery stores playing them to death. And I loved Lindsey's solo stuff.

Anyway, getting back to what I was saying. I read Carol Anne's book and thought it had too many holes in it for her accusations of Lindsey's to be true. Then reading Ken's book, he talks about Lindsey getting mad and choking him. He also discusses how another girlfriend beside Carol accused Lindsey of hitting her.

To be fair I guess, Lindsey was doing lots of coke at that time into the 80's. From what I've seen with my family members abuse. coke can ramp you up. Make you irritable easily and more violence prone. And in Anne Heche's book she never mentioned any physical abuse form Lindsey. So I'm pretty sure he was clean the time he dated Anne.

So, a lot of the physical abuse could have been induced from drugs. I just dont know anymore. If Ken's saying abuse took place, I'm inclined to believe him. I dont think he has any reason to lie.

I'm lost. Even if it was brought on by drug abuse, I'm not sure I can behind someone who hits women. I understand musicians are human. I look the other way most of the time when it comes to minor indiscretions. I love Bob Dylan and Bruce, but they are/were huge womanizers. I dont care about that cause most musicians are.

The only thing that can stop me from being a fan is spousal/child abuse. I stopped liking John Lennon when I found out he severely verbally abused Julian.

Should we look the other way and keep being fans of Lindsey if his physical abuse was in the past and induced by major drug abuse? I guess I need some perspective.
Hi GreenMagic. I appreciate the honesty of your post and I will give my honest opinion on the matter...

Yes, I will absolutely continue to follow Lindsey's career despite Ken's book. First and foremost, Lindsey Buckingham is what keeps me in the Mac fandom in the first place. His Mac music, solo music, his musicianship, and all the many amazing contributions he has made to music in general: I am utterly grateful. I've also seen him live about 14 times and each time he just blew me away more.

As regards his personal life, I think Lindsey has done a 180 and grown into a far happier person. His children adore him, his family seems darling and sweet and apparently they make him tremendously happy and have inspired a great deal of energy in him. So I couldn't be more pleased, as a fan.

In terms of what is in Ken's book, I obviously don't condone abuse of any kind. But this was a time and a place that none of us can even try and fathom an understanding of. Ken Caillat worked closely with FM, sure, but he wasn't dealing with whatever issues LB was obviously fighting inside of him. I mean, he had epilepsy, was ingesting copious amounts of cocaine and hard liquor, and was dealing with the fallout of a great love and working with said lover on a consistent basis, in a very intimate way (I would say songwriting qualifies as so, and Lindsey was as close to a songwriting partner for Stevie with all he did musically to her songs). So, no, I won't make excuses for his behavior, but I will try to understand. He had issues. He's probably still fighting some of them.

I met Lindsey more than a few times and he is such an awesome, sweet guy. I don't think any of us know these celebs personally. If I had to pick apart every horrible quality of each one of them...well, there wouldn't be much to like in the end. Bob Dylan was abusive to his wife, Sara, but I can't help but be touched by the entirety of Blood On The Tracks and feel his pain. John Lennon wasn't the greatest father to Julian, but he was struggling to overcome the pain of his own tumultuous upbringing and, in the end, tried to set it right. And even though they weren't perfect, John is still my favorite artist of all time and Bob is still one of my favorite songwriters.

The list can go on and on. Writers, poets, musicians, comedians, actors, etc. These people are just humans that screw up. It's when they seem to not care enough to make amends, or seem to find pleasure in hurting others who haven't the power to stop/control them that I really shake my head. But I can still love the art. I don't think Lindsey is a monster, nor any more wicked than the other members of FM. He was a young guy who did some stupid s*** and he's come a LONG way and turned into a pretty awesome guy in the long run.

An awesome guy who still creates flawless music. I'm definitely an LB girl and I regret nothing.
__________________

"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." ~ JL
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:41 AM
GreenMagic GreenMagic is offline
Junior Ledgie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
Red face

Thanks Nico for your post.

I agree with most of it just a few things though. Bob wasn't abusive to Sara in the physical sense. He cheated on her constantly in the last years of their marriage. But that happened when he returned to the road.

Before then, he surprisingly had been faithful. But once you start touring old temptations die hard. As far as any abuse I think you are talking about the slap Sara claimed in divorce documents.

I found through some sources close to the Dylans that it was a lie. That Sara made that up as a tactic to get sole custody of their kids. Which is why their divorce documents when officially got finalized got sealed. Cause there were revisions made such as taking that incident out once there was a settlement.

I dont blame Sara. I can see how hurt she was by Bob's philandering. And she didnt feel the kids would be in a stable environment given Bob's touring. Sara and Bob actually breifly reconciled in the 80's. But they decided they were better off friends and remain so to this day. Bob took Sara to the Golden Globes back in 2000.

Also there hasnt been any other accounts of Bob pulling any Lindsey type stuff with women. He was still womanizing according to his ex-girlfriends but that was it. Don't get me wrong, Bob has his personal flaws.

But womanizing is a flaw I can live with compared to the other horrid things I've read some of my former heroes do. I'm fine with Lindsey and willing to look past it since he seems to be in a better place.

As far as John Lennon, I've read too many repulsive things he did in his personal life. It really tainted the music for me. But if you can get past it that's awesome. I can't mainly because some of the same tragedies that happened to him I experienced as well. And I never used it as an excuse to be terrible to people. Guess I'm too close to be objective.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Fleetwood Mac Signed Photo Stevie Nicks Mick Fleetwood Christie McVee John McVee
$799.99
Fleetwood Mac Signed Photo Stevie Nicks Mick Fleetwood Christie McVee John McVee pictureSIGNED - Mick Fleetwood "Mac" Drumhead 12" + Pic
$400.0
SIGNED - Mick Fleetwood c1977 RUMOURS ERA FLEETWOOD MAC PROOF SHEET LINDSEY MICK CHRIS & JOHN IN STUDIO
$179.99
c1977 RUMOURS ERA FLEETWOOD MAC PROOF SHEET LINDSEY MICK CHRIS & JOHN IN STUDIO pictureMick Fleetwood 1947- genuine autograph photo 8"x12" signed In Person
$175.0
Mick Fleetwood 1947- genuine autograph photo 8Mick Fleetwood, Founder of Fleetwood Mac, Signed Photo, COA, UACC RD 036
$99.99
Mick Fleetwood, Founder of Fleetwood Mac, Signed Photo, COA, UACC RD 036 picture



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved