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  #31  
Old 05-09-2009, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind View Post
In the end, while they worked on the Mirage songs after the Tusk tour - many of them had vocals laid down prior to that, though those vocals may not have been on the prior product.
Where are you people getting all this bizarre information? Can you substantiate this assertion?

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As for Hold Me - I can hear La Nicks in the mix. When it was release - I remember thinking it odd that FM's lead single did not more heavily feature La Nicks, who at that time was one of the largest stars in the world. I do love hold me though. I just wish it had a third set of lyrics instead of LB's penchant for repeating the chorus after the bridge.
What does repeating the chorus after the bridge (you mean the instrumental break?) have to do with LB?

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I also found it odd that LB was so quick to cut La Nicks' stanzas, yet he would do this repeating of the same thing. Oh well.
What Nicks stanzas?
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  #32  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Say what?! Is that true? What tape?

I can't believe "Hold Me" is that old unless I have some evidence!
I have asked you 2 questions about these tapes (I also wanted to know if you thought Kel was Carol Ann, in retrospect) and now you are just getting around to asking what tape. If this keeps up, I am no longer going to look to you for insight and information.

Anyway, someone once put up a transcript and I will look for it and we will see about Hold Me.

Michele

Last edited by michelej1 : 05-09-2009 at 01:20 PM.
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  #33  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Where are you people getting all this bizarre information? Can you substantiate this assertion?
A search on you tube will reveal the 1981 Rolling Stone photo shoot, which was done prior to the release of Mirage. In that footage, several Mirage songs are played. Plus, as Michelle noted, the audio tapes reveal Hold Me was done prior to then.

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Originally Posted by David View Post
What does repeating the chorus after the bridge (you mean the instrumental break?) have to do with LB?
They label such things as a bridge in the liner notes. What I mean is after the instrumental break in Hold Me - the chorus just repeats until the fade out. I would have liked to have heard another stanza. Who knows, maybe CM did not have another one. I say the same thing about Say You Will (the song) -- there is the bridge/instrumental break and then the repeat of the chorus until it fades out. I want to hear another stanza there. LB produced the record and we don't see this structure in La Nicks' solo work. So, I conclude LB does this. This is all, however, my opinion based on said and other observations.

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Originally Posted by David View Post
What Nicks stanzas?
La Nicks has stated that Sara was cut and verses/stanzas were never heard.
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  #34  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:21 PM
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Was that John Rockwell in the New York Times?
I do not remember -- It may have been - though I think it may have been from Billboard.
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  #35  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:37 PM
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Ok, David you're right. I thought they were talking about Hold Me on the same one where they talked about Lindsey's spinal tap, but they were not. They were talking about Hold Me when Robin was in the hospital, so that is much later.

Here's a transcript, someone posted:

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/sh...11&postcount=1
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  #36  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
Ok, David you're right. I thought they were talking about Hold Me on the same one where they talked about Lindsey's spinal tap, but they were not. They were talking about Hold Me when Robin was in the hospital, so that is much later.

Here's a transcript, someone posted:

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/sh...11&postcount=1
Cool - thanks for posting.

But, this is still prior to Mirage and likely Bella Donna (released 7/2001) as Robin died when BD reached No. 1 (9/2001)

Mirage was released in June 1982. Presumably, it was finished and ready for pressing and shipping a few months before that.

La Nicks' BD tour was a couple of weeks during the two months of 1981.

Interestingly, Gypsy allegedly was to be on BD, but was re-worked for Mirage.

All of this supports my theory that much of Mirage was in production long before 1981 - though I am sure some additional work went into it in 1981 and possibly 1982 considering La Nick said she put a copy of the finished BD in the studio for LB. Presumably, they were in the studio to record mirage as they did not record anything after Mirage until like 1985-86 for TITN and La Nicks was not really around that much for that.
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  #37  
Old 05-09-2009, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind View Post

But, this is still prior to Mirage and likely Bella Donna (released 7/2001) as Robin died when BD reached No. 1 (9/2001)
The recording sessions book I have says they were in Herouville from May to June 1981 working on Mirage and then worked on overdubs over the next 6 months of 1981 in Los Angeles (Record Plant and Larrabee Sound).

I had thought Hold Me was earlier, but I have all of those audio "conversations" on just 2 CD discs and I guess I just blended them all together in my head and don't really have an accurate idea of the chronology of what was said when, when I listened to them.

Michele
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  #38  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:24 PM
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That reviewer who likened their voices calling out to one another from different towers in the mist was from a Rolling Stone review. The one titled "Fleetwood Mac Shimmers Back"--or something like that. I forget who wrote it. Mark Coleman?

Hold Me was written expressly for Mirage. It was not written in the late 70s. Rarely does Chris hold on to extra songs. She tends to write only what she needs for any given project. She does have, however, a large backlog of fragments and ideas.
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  #39  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind View Post
A search on you tube will reveal the 1981 Rolling Stone photo shoot, which was done prior to the release of Mirage. In that footage, several Mirage songs are played.
You said that several Mirage songs were tracked prior to the Tusk tour. That isn't true.

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Plus, as Michelle noted, the audio tapes reveal Hold Me was done prior to then.
I look forward to hearing these tapes for confirmation that the "Hold Me" tracks were recorded before the Tusk tour.

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They label such things as a bridge in the liner notes. What I mean is after the instrumental break in Hold Me - the chorus just repeats until the fade out.
I know which section you're referring to. I call it an instrumental break. If you prefer the slightly more ambiguous "bridge," have at it. (I say ambiguous because of the fact that the term "bridge" can, in popular song parlance, have several different meanings, although the primary one is that of a sung section of the song with a unique -- i.e., nonrepeated -- melodic or chordal backdrop. A prime example of a bridge is the "Sooner or later/I'll keep the promise I made to you/Sooner or later/It will be greater/Than we ever knew" section in "Skies the Limit," in which the tonic-based verse & chorus modulate to the minor submediant.)

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LB produced the record and we don't see this structure in La Nicks' solo work.
We don't?

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La Nicks has stated that Sara was cut and verses/stanzas were never heard.
But Stevie never specified whether the Fleetwood Mac track was cut so drastically, or whether all those thousands of other stanzas were simply not recorded to begin with.
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  #40  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind View Post
All of this supports my theory that much of Mirage was in production long before 1981 -
None of that supports your theory that Mirage was in production long before 1981, because your theory is completely inaccurate.

You appear to be having a senior moment, strand.
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  #41  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by michelej1 View Post
If this keeps up, I am no longer going to look to you for insight and information.
I wish you wouldn't!

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Anyway, someone once put up a transcript and I will look for it and we will see about Hold Me.
I just now read further down in the thread. I'll have to look around for these tapes -- you've piqued my curiosity. I remember getting some conversation tapes from a limousine or something, but I don't remember anything about "Hold Me." However, the audio was so long & so boring that I never listened to all of it. Are the "Hold Me" tapes & the limousine tapes one & the same?
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  #42  
Old 05-09-2009, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cristochango View Post
I think I know the answer to this, but does Stevie even sing on Hold Me?
I don't think she does. She of course appears in the video, but even in the video she doesn't even sing. She's just looking pretty.....LOL!
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  #43  
Old 05-09-2009, 05:12 PM
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None of that supports your theory that Mirage was in production long before 1981, because your theory is completely inaccurate.

You appear to be having a senior moment, strand.
Well, That's Alright has a 1973 or 74 demo. and Gypsy was recorded for BD, which began recording in 1979

So, it appears that some where in production, though clearly not completed.

In any event, here is what I said:

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Originally Posted by strandinthewind View Post
As an aside - in the BD RS cover photoshoot in, say 1981 - La Nicks is playing some songs from Mirage - I think Wish You Were Here, Can't Go Back, That's Alright, and maybe another were played. I cannot remember if Hold me was played. This leads me to believe that some of the Mirage songs were holdovers in a somewhat completed form from the Tusk recording sessions or shortly thereafter. That's Alright was written in like 1974. In the end, while they worked on the Mirage songs after the Tusk tour - many of them had vocals laid down prior to that, though those vocals may not have been on the prior product.
Based on all that was discussed above and that Mirage songs were played in their completed form in Aug. or Sept. 1981, it is not beyond speculation that some of the songs were around in one form or another prior to 1981, esp. considering Tusk was released in Oct. 1979 and they toured pretty much nonstop until Sept. 1980. Who knows though, maybe they took no break and went directly into the studio and produced Mirage in one year all while La Nicks simultaneously finished BD and rehearsed and did her mini tour for BD.

I think you think I am saying that the Mirage songs were done, completed, in the can, etc. prior to the release of Tusk. I am not and did not. I am just saying that some, not all, of the songs could have been worked in one form or another on prior to the release of Tusk and the subsequent tour and La Nicks' production and very brief BD tour. They could have worked on them individually or as a band. This is not beyond the realm of possibility.
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  #44  
Old 05-09-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by aleuzzi View Post
That reviewer who likened their voices calling out to one another from different towers in the mist was from a Rolling Stone review. The one titled "Fleetwood Mac Shimmers Back"--or something like that. I forget who wrote it. Mark Coleman?

Hold Me was written expressly for Mirage. It was not written in the late 70s. Rarely does Chris hold on to extra songs. She tends to write only what she needs for any given project. She does have, however, a large backlog of fragments and ideas.
Thanks!!!!!
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  #45  
Old 05-09-2009, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind View Post
I do not remember -- It may have been - though I think it may have been from Billboard.
It was the New York Times. http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...v2&id=555&c=18
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