The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Rumours
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:30 PM
Johnny Stew's Avatar
Johnny Stew Johnny Stew is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 12,145
Default

Let me take a moment to mourn "When I See You Again"... a song too good for its own good. *sighs*

With that, Iamgonnavote-Iamgonnavote-Iamgonnavote-Iamgonnavote... for "Family Man" (for "Family Man").
__________________
"Although the arrogance of fame lingers like a thick cloud around the famous, the sun always seems to shine for Stevie." -- Richard Dashut, 2014
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:37 PM
Johnny Stew's Avatar
Johnny Stew Johnny Stew is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 12,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dissention
Becuase I think it's crappy. Her vocals are cloying and much too high for my tastes. The screaming at the end is just that, screaming, and it's annoying. And it's not as intense as I'd prefer. Now, The Dance version has much better vocals and much better performance from the band as a whole. And the ending is brilliant, unlike the tepid studio version.
Her vocals at the beginning are pretty (what you're considering cloying) because they're supposed to be... the song starts out gently and reflectively, and then builds to its emotional crescendo.
The ending from the 'Dance' version, where Stevie reprises the first line, is the only thing missing from the album version.

I usually prefer Stevie's latter-day vocals, but this is one case where the original version just can't be topped.

And in my opinion, it belongs on 'Rumours,' and always has.
In fact, it's been included on MY 'Rumours' for over a decade now. I never listen to that album without "Silver Springs."
__________________
"Although the arrogance of fame lingers like a thick cloud around the famous, the sun always seems to shine for Stevie." -- Richard Dashut, 2014
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:56 PM
secondhandchain secondhandchain is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES, CA
Posts: 865
Default

I vote for Seven Wonders...Sorry but I don't like Stevie's vocals on this one. How could you guys not like Mystified? Some of the most beautiful harmonies ever recorded.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:56 PM
Tango Tango is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,845
Default good one.

Welcome To The Room . . . Sara.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-01-2004, 11:55 PM
face of glass's Avatar
face of glass face of glass is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Finland, the country where polar bears walk on the streets singing "Silver Girl"
Posts: 1,938
Default Round & Round (#2)

"Well of cooourse it was a probleeeemmm". "Welcome To The Room...Sara".
__________________
Gaius

^ - "a selfindulged, but funny butthead of a Fin" - Shackin'up
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-01-2004, 11:59 PM
face of glass's Avatar
face of glass face of glass is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Finland, the country where polar bears walk on the streets singing "Silver Girl"
Posts: 1,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
And in my opinion, it belongs on 'Rumours,' and always has.
In fact, it's been included on MY 'Rumours' for over a decade now. I never listen to that album without "Silver Springs."
And in my opinion "Book Of Miracles", "Down Endless Street", "Ricky" and "You And I Part 2" belong on TITN, and they always have. Just because some woman chose to be involved in the making of album for three weeks doesn't mean that these songs should be ignored in voting.
In fact, kick some of the woman's esoterica out and you'll have the album as I prefer to listen to it.
__________________
Gaius

^ - "a selfindulged, but funny butthead of a Fin" - Shackin'up
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-02-2004, 12:13 AM
GretaRhiannon's Avatar
GretaRhiannon GretaRhiannon is offline
Senior Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: In a room with some lace and paper flowers
Posts: 193
Default

Welcome to the Room...Sara kicks major monkey ass! lol so yeah, I'm still gonna vote off Family Man
__________________
I don't post anymore

If Stevie were singing in the forest, and nobody heard her...would she still rule?

My Fleetwood Mac Photoalbum
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-02-2004, 12:30 AM
Johnny Stew's Avatar
Johnny Stew Johnny Stew is offline
Addicted Ledgie
Supporting Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 12,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by face of glass
And in my opinion "Book Of Miracles", "Down Endless Street", "Ricky" and "You And I Part 2" belong on TITN, and they always have.
"You And I, Part 2" IS on 'Tango.'
Out of the non-LP b-sides from 'Tango,' the only one that deserves a place on 'Tango,' in my opinion, is "You And I, Part 1."

"Ricky" is lightweight and goes nowhere, "Book Of Miracles" is just an instrumental (I'm a snob when it comes to instrumentals, if they're going to take the place of a song with vocals), and "Down Endless Street"... well, it's the second-best of that batch of non-LP tracks, but it still sounds like an unfinished thought.

Stevie's "esoterica" gives 'Tango' its soul... but whatever.
__________________
"Although the arrogance of fame lingers like a thick cloud around the famous, the sun always seems to shine for Stevie." -- Richard Dashut, 2014
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-02-2004, 01:10 AM
golden braid's Avatar
golden braid golden braid is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,201
Default

Family Man
__________________
"Never have I been a blue calm sea
I have always been a storm"
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-02-2004, 01:12 AM
tynan88 tynan88 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wollongong, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,353
Default Round 2

Off ya go...Family Man...I want this round down to Seven WOnders and Welcome to the Room...Sara

Tynan

PS: Hundredth Post Yay for me!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-02-2004, 01:17 AM
darklinensuit's Avatar
darklinensuit darklinensuit is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 9,946
Default

I love WTTR...S.

My vote is for FAMILY MAN.

- Jake
__________________
“The hair went from perm to growing out perm to really bad growing out perm to almost straight to good straight to long straight to beautiful straight to a lot of work straight back to the perm.”
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-02-2004, 05:55 AM
Bryan's Avatar
Bryan Bryan is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 425
Default Round 2

As much as I love it,im voting Wecome To The Room...Sara
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-02-2004, 07:52 AM
ryan8472's Avatar
ryan8472 ryan8472 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 8,273
Default

Family Man. It has to go sooner or later.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-02-2004, 08:07 AM
Patti's Avatar
Patti Patti is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,036
Default Round 2

I think I'll go with Family Man.
__________________
Patti

"Don't f*&k with anyone's dog and don't ever date a musician."
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08-02-2004, 08:43 AM
face of glass's Avatar
face of glass face of glass is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Finland, the country where polar bears walk on the streets singing "Silver Girl"
Posts: 1,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
"You And I, Part 2" IS on 'Tango.'
Well screw my keyboard and my fingers then.
Quote:
"Ricky" is lightweight and goes nowhere...
Where would you like the song to go then? I'm guessing here that you're not moved by it emotionally. I personally love the damn thing. I think it is 'beautifully pointless', let's say it like that, unlike "WTTR...S" & "WISYA", which are bit too 'pointy' for me. And it is just as difficult to create a glorious question mark into your head as it is to 'bare your soul' as it has been generally expected of Stevie.
Quote:
..."Book Of Miracles" is just an instrumental...
While I do believe that instruments convey emotion as much as vocals, I still would like the track with a vocal. No doubt would it have been worked upon later, if the track had been chosen to be included on the album.
Quote:
"Down Endless Street"... well, it's the second-best of that batch of non-LP tracks, but it still sounds like an unfinished thought.
Another one that no doubt Lindsey would have worked upon further, if Stevie hadn't chosen to get involved in the making of TITN.
Quote:
Stevie's "esoterica" gives 'Tango' its soul... but whatever.
'Soul' and 'Substance', you're using different words for the same thing.

The soul is just as much in there when the middle eight of "Big Love" starts crying out for help. Or when Lindsey delivers his struggling vocal for "Caroline". Or when he lets rip in the title track. Or when Chris sounds vulnerable in "Mystified" and "Little Lies". Or when "Family Man" arrives to the guitar solo. Or when the 'little child' (my image of Lindsey as he delivers that vocal) of "You And I Part Two" sings to us. And this is in the usually accepted way, mind you, through vocals and lead guitar. I haven't mentioned the arrangemental aspects yet because those can do just as much, although not in a way similar to the confessionalists, that's for sure.
Ear-candy pop? For some, maybe. Not for me.

Honestly, I'm interested in why "Silver Springs" is suddenly in a better situation than these other b-sides in these survivor polls. Yes, it is on the DVD-A and Enhanced CD reissues now, but why wasn't it on the album earlier?

(THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY OPINION OF THE MUSICAL CONTENT OF "SILVER SPRINGS".)

The most common explanation that has been given to this is that "it didn't fit in there because of vinyl limitations". I personally think that's not a valid explanation. Fleetwood Mac had a blockbuster behind them and they were most certainly given the access to the best that Warner Brothers had to offer when they went to record Rumours. However, you still hear Mick and co saying that 'vinyl could only hold 23 minutes per side'. The latter is not true, since the '70s had seen several albums with side-lengths approaching 30 minutes, such as certain Todd Rundgren albums or Genesis' Foxtrot and Selling England By The Pound. Of course, at that point the sound quality will certainly suffer, an issue that was obviously important to certain members of Fleetwood Mac.

However, there's been cases where a band has chosen to put more than 23 minutes to a vinyl LP side and the sound quality hasn't still degraded. See Martin Birch's notes from the inner sleeve of Iron Maiden's Live After Death live album:
Quote:
Cutting Maiden album is often difficult, as they tend to give you fans great value by putting about 25 minutes of music on each side, whereas an album side normally runs between 16-20 minutes. This gives the cutting engineer great problems in getting all the grooves in without losing volume and clarity. However, the best can do it, and we only use the best.
So why wasn't "Silver Springs" put on the album then, if Fleetwood Mac had all the possibilities to do it? Are we speaking of Ken Caillat's and Richard Dashut's incompetence in this regard? I'd like to think not.

So yes, perhaps "Silver Springs" was left off intentionally, not because of time constraints. It's very possible that the 'flow' of the album would have been interrupted by it (and that's why they chose "I Don't Want To Know"), I've seen that as another explanation that the band members have been offering us. However, that must have been their subjective opinion of the track order; we've all seen fans on this board who arrange the track orders of every album to their own preference.

Of course, if people still want to believe that "technical reasons" kept "Silver Springs off Rumours, fine. Then it's my right to believe that "technical reasons" (in addition to the Nicksian reasons ) kept "You And I Part 1" (look, I got it right this time), "Down Endless Street", "Book Of Miracles" and "Ricky" off Tango In The Night. If CD had been the dominant format in 1987, the band members might have put these on the album in addition to what's already on it, of course 'finishing' two of them.

That the band members have recently been stating that "'Silver Springs' should have been on the album" doesn't mean much to me. It's all reflective of the success the track had as a single in 1997 (plus the image of Nicks belting out the words to Buckingham, more emphasis on the drama of Rumours); that's why it was added to the DVD-A and the Enhanced CD.
There hasn't been a proper reissue (like those two of Rumours mentioned above) of TITN. If such a thing emerges soon, will we redo this poll because the b-sides might be tacked on to the end of the original album?

Of course, one could now say that "Silver Springs" isn't a bonus track, since it isn't tacked to the end of Rumours, it's in the middle. However, it's in between the last track of side 1 and the first track of side 2. I know of some reissues that have the same approach; Nick Cave's The First Born Is Dead and The Fall's This Nation's Saving Grace have the non-LP single sides on the cd in between the first and second sides of the original vinyl. Of course, the compilers of the Rumours reissue couldn't just figure out where to place the track yet again, so they chose the easiest route.

But whatever. What's done is done. Poll on!
__________________
Gaius

^ - "a selfindulged, but funny butthead of a Fin" - Shackin'up

Last edited by face of glass : 08-02-2004 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Fleetwood Mac Signed Photo Stevie Nicks Mick Fleetwood Christie McVee John McVee
$799.99
Fleetwood Mac Signed Photo Stevie Nicks Mick Fleetwood Christie McVee John McVee pictureRARE STEVIE NICKS PHOTO DISC 500 IN ALL
$99.99
RARE STEVIE NICKS    PHOTO DISC 500    IN ALL  picturevintage Stevie Nicks 1989 program and concert ticket other side of the mirror
$59.99
vintage Stevie Nicks 1989 program and concert ticket  other side of the mirror pictureFleetwood Mac Poster Album Promo Say You Will 2-Sided Stevie Nicks Mick
$49.99
Fleetwood Mac Poster Album Promo Say You Will 2-Sided Stevie Nicks Mick pictureStevie Nicks Poster Of Fleetwood Mac Time Space
$49.99
Stevie Nicks Poster Of Fleetwood Mac Time Space picture



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved