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  #16  
Old 03-14-2004, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarneVaca
If the guy had said the albums were great because of Stevie's voice and her dreamy poetry, you'd be nodding so fast and furiously in agreement that you'd make yourselves dizzy.

This guy calls it what it is. Though he did a poor job of actually addressing the reissues, he had it right on Lindsey's influence.
Yea, but LB had to have SN's and CM's material to work with before he could produce greatness and more importantly hit singles. After all, hit singles are the reason FM was allowed to continue recording, etc. In other words, if FM and Rumors failed to produce any hit singles (SN and Chris had six (Rhiannon, Over My Head, Say You love Me, Don't Stop, Dreams, YMLF) to LB's one (GYOW), then the record company would never have spent the money to produce Tusk. But, then again, these six hit singles would have not been the same without LB's production and certainly SN and CN contributed some to GYOW. So, I see it as a band effort to be credited and singling one person far ahead of the others is not fair. So, I say LB certainly should be credited as producer and a brilliant one at that, but SN, CM, JM, and MF certainly provided fuel for the fire and deserve a ton of credit for that
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2004, 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I think Gerald meant that when you think of the band, who pops into most peoples' minds? Stevie Nicks. Is that right, Gerald? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I read his post that way.

yes you read it like i meant it. That's why I said "almost" human face . For us, LB and CM gave the band a human face, but 90% of the people wouldn't recognize those two even if they were stepping on their toes.....

And Strand, I don't think LB gets credit here as a producer, he gets credit for being a Visionary: that's something else...he gave the band with three musical singer-songwriters-ego's a total recognizable character...and that is not only a sound....: it's by Blending it without crushing individuality. (musically of course, i'm not talking 'bout emotions and politics, and room on one album etcetera.)

Although this man puts LB ABOVE the rest of the band, I will never do that. But I feel proud for Lindsey, that he gets this in RS in 2004 (for g*ds sake.....)

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  #18  
Old 03-14-2004, 04:20 PM
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Despite Lindsey's unmistakable influence, I still have to wonder what Keith Olsen, Richard Dashut and Ken Caillat think about Lindsey receiving all of the credit for the "Fleetwood Mac sound" on the first three albums.

Critically, LB's always been praised for his contributions to Fleetwood Mac as a musician, so it's nice that he's now also getting praise for his behind-the-scenes work too... but it does seem to come off a little uneven when you consider that he wasn't the only one there.

Surely Keith Olsen and the veteran members of the band, had more say than Lindsey would have had on 'Fleetwood Mac;' and even though he was the "idea man" for 'Rumours' and 'Tusk,' it would have still been largely Richard and Ken who acheived the overall sound on those albums, as it seems they were the ones who spent the most time at the console.

Anyway, I'm not at all trying to detract from Lindsey's input... I just think it's somewhat unfair to give him sole credit for Fleetwood Mac's sound, when those albums featured production work by three other very skilled men (not to mention the musical contributions from four other very talented band-members).
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Last edited by Johnny Stew : 03-14-2004 at 04:24 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2004, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarneVaca
If the guy had said the albums were great because of Stevie's voice and her dreamy poetry, you'd be nodding so fast and furiously in agreement that you'd make yourselves dizzy.

Well, that's the first time anyone ever accused me of being a Stevie Nicks fan. For the record, I'm a Christine McVie fan but I believe those 3 albums are great because of everyone in the band on EQUAL terms. I did forget Keith Olsen, Richard Dashut & Ken Caillait in my original post. As Johnny Stew said, Lindsey probably had little to do with the overall sound especially on the White Album and even on Rumours to some extent. I think those 3 guys are the unsung heroes of those 3 albums. If anyone has been overlooked over the years, it's been Keith Olsen, Richard & Ken.
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  #20  
Old 03-14-2004, 05:14 PM
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I’ll have to check the CD credits when I receive them, but isn’t this Rolling Stone review just in regard to the reissues and not the originals…… like Buckingham’s mixing and digitally remastering? Olsen, Caillet and Dashut aren’t even involved these days……..

….Anyway, being Buck-biased that I am , I do consider FLEETWOOD MAC, RUMOURS and TUSK his albums, as he was the visionary. Mick Fleetwood on the making of RUMOURS DVD even said so…..

Buckingham’s sounds metamorphosized the band. I’m glad Rolling Stone gave him all the credit!
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Old 03-14-2004, 09:51 PM
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  #21  
Old 03-14-2004, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lux
I'm new here (from over at Burnish), but all I have to add is that credit is given where it is due. Lindsey is the genius.
Mind you I do come from a very biased position.
I agree - its just that it seem some people imply that without LB, SN and CM are not worth anything. I know that people may not mean to come across that way, but it does sometimes. So, we chiffonheads get our dander up and cry foul. IMO - its all good spirited - at least on my end

Also, although I am a proud chiffonhead, I also love LB and, esp. CM. So, I sort of take them as a group effort when they are in FM.
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2004, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by strandinthewind
So, I see it as a band effort to be credited and singling one person far ahead of the others is not fair.
What's unfair about it? It's one guy's opinion. Reviewers make questionable assertions all the time. You either agree or disagree. I think he's got it right, but that's not news.
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2004, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Anyway, I'm not at all trying to detract from Lindsey's input... I just think it's somewhat unfair to give him sole credit for Fleetwood Mac's sound, when those albums featured production work by three other very skilled men (not to mention the musical contributions from four other very talented band-members).
Johnny, the question of the Fleetwood Mac sound was answered in the Behind the Mask and Time albums.

If you or anyone else still thinks Lindsey wasn't the architect of the Fleetwood Mac sound after listening to those two albums, with all due respect, you're just refusing to hear it.
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2004, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarneVaca
Johnny, the question of the Fleetwood Mac sound was answered in the Behind the Mask and Time albums.

If you or anyone else still thinks Lindsey wasn't the architect of the Fleetwood Mac sound after listening to those two albums, with all due respect, you're just refusing to hear it.
Ahh, but neither Ken Caillat or Richard Dashut were on hand to produce 'Behind The Mask.'

Richard Dashut did produce 'Time,' however, and I think the production on that album is flawless.

If I'm remembering correctly, I recall you saying that you don't own 'Time'... so that might be why you see it differently.
Or it might just be Buckingham-Fan bias.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2004, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
If the guy had said the albums were great because of Stevie's voice and her dreamy poetry, you'd be nodding so fast and furiously in agreement that you'd make yourselves dizzy.
The issue is that the guy called them "Lindsey Buckingham's three great albums" _ not that he saw Buckingham as the band's greatest asset.
He's entitled to the latter view, but the former is simply false. They aren't Lindsey Buckingham's albums; they're Fleetwood Mac's.
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:09 AM
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2004, 07:14 AM
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I doubt he meant it as a record of fact, because it wouldn't take much knowledge to recognise that it's not true. I'm sure he meant it as a statement of how he views the ablums, in other words, it's his opinion that Lindsey is the man behind the albums.
I see your point.
But the reviewer's opinion still mystifies me. I'd find him just as off-base if he had called these records Stevie's, Christine's or anyone else's. What makes them great, IMO, is the chemistry between the musicians involved. In fact, they wouldn't even exist if the entire band hadn't been present. Why not recognize everybody's contributions?

Last edited by blinker12 : 03-15-2004 at 07:30 AM.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2004, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarneVaca
What's unfair about it? It's one guy's opinion. Reviewers make questionable assertions all the time. You either agree or disagree. I think he's got it right, but that's not news.
Well, then I disagree

But, my saying its unfair is my opinion, etc. I think this just goes along with that whole "SN and CM are drivel and silly helpless women and LB is the only one with talent" argument that has been rehashed over and over and will never be resolved.

I think the facts do not support that neither CM nor SN has any talent outside of LB's production. LB had nothing to do with any of SN's eight or more solo efforts (counting movie songs) save one brilliant guitar part in "I Miss You" on TISL. CM certainly had been making very good music (e.g. "Why," HAHTF, etc.) long before LB entered the picture and her solo record was no slouch. Finally, MF and JM had an established rhythm section long before LB and SN joined. So, although I think LB is very, very smart, brilliant, talented, etc., to say no one else but LB is responsible for the entire sound of FM is factually incorrect. Again, I am making a factual argument here. I am not in any way saying LB is not due the well deserved respect he has worked to hard to obtain. I am just saying the facts clearly indicate LB did not do it alone.
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2004, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lux
To give you an indictation of how an obsession with Lindsey can get in the way of rationality: Lindsey is a genius, he is responsible for all that is great about his and FM songs. All those flaws along the way, they're somebody's elses fault.
Lord you have it as bad as some of the die hard chiffon heads
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2004, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Ahh, but neither Ken Caillat or Richard Dashut were on hand to produce 'Behind The Mask.'

Richard Dashut did produce 'Time,' however, and I think the production on that album is flawless.

If I'm remembering correctly, I recall you saying that you don't own 'Time'... so that might be why you see it differently.
Or it might just be Buckingham-Fan bias.
I do own "Time." And wouldn't you know it? My favorite song is the one with Bekka for which Lindsey does the background vocals you can barely hear. It was my favorite song before I realized Lindsey was on it.

Johnny, do you see a lot of soud similarities between Time/Behind the Mask and the Lindsey albums? I don't. And regardless of who was behind the boards, Lindsey's vision and masterful playing are conspicuously absent. In your reference to "Time," you're talking about production. I'm talking about the "feel" of the album, the sound that Lindsey so masterfully crafted for the albums he was involved in. You can't match the feel of Time and Behind the Mask to Lindsey's stuff.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2004, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by strandinthewind
Lord you have it as bad as some of the die hard chiffon heads

welcome to the club, lux

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