This was likely a Business Decision

[Ench]

Originally Posted by button-lip

I agree but that doesn't give them the right to fire him and leave many people without a job in the process. That's petty, arrogant and tacky.

Come on, it can't be that bad! Stevie is also a "me, me, me" person and I'm sure they also have to deal with her whimps, but no one ever cross the line and try to go on without her.

They do have the right to fire him, if they don't want to work with him any more.

I would hope that they would do right by anyone who lost out in the tour. However, we don't know exactly what happened and whose fault it was. Perhaps we should wait to find out more about the split, if we ever do.

Otherwise it's easy to blame the band members we don't like, and absolve the band members that we do like.

I'm more of a Lindsey fan than a fan of any other member of that band. That doesn't mean that I jump to the conclusion that Lindsey is in the right and Mick and Stevie in the wrong.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by elle

man i missed a lot! i've never heard this piece of the story. do we know this, or it's just someone speculation?

what i also find bizarre is people claiming how it's obvious that LB not giving his normal 200% at the Classics but instead just regular 110% is what gives FM every right to get rid of him as a bad employee. how can anyone say this with a straight face? have you all seen the last 4 FM tours? if you haven't seen tours than read the reviews? more often than not, Stevie was practically a zombie sleepwalking through FM shows, making it clear she could care less about FM. her solo fans say she's a completely different person, engaged and happy on her solo outings. so why was she not fired anytime between 2009 and now for not giving it a 100%?

No, it's true. It was confirmed to me by someone who was "around" a couple of the band meetings. The same person who told me Mike Campbell was approached by Mick/Stevie even before Lindsey was fired.

If Lindsey wasn't engaged in his work at the Classic East then why was he so mad with some tech during GYOW because of some sound problem? Does it sound like a person who wasn't commited with his work? Then we should all be fired from our jobs!

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

this puts a more realistic context around the reports that Mick/the band mgmt had polled promoters to see which configuration of the band would sell more tickets (and then use that as their decision tool )

The essence of the rumour is true but there was no context around it. Context matters.

Still doesn't change what I think of the outcome, but it shows better how the pieces fell into place.

So with this info I can see them debating back and forth about dates, and Stevie / her camp saying "look, we already have dates booked / planned for next year, so I will not be available for any Mac dates then" and then I can absolutely see them throwing down the gauntlet and saying, "so decide if you want him or me". This would be very very very in line with the tactic she / they used during SYW negotiations about the album being single or double album... she threatened, "if you make it a double album I will not tour beyond the 40 dates we've already booked". It reinforces that of course they know she's a major draw for the audience (and they clearly believe she is the MAIN draw) and will throw out that card whenever it suits their agenda... "well fine, do what you want, but if you do Stevie will take her ball and go home". They know this will scare the pants off Mick...and....she gets her way.

They can couch it as just giving the band the facts and letting the band decide as much as they want, but it was clearly intended and taken as an ultimatum.

Oh yes I have been thinking of this as well. As she said in DR: “This is not about art.” Yet Lindsey caved. The art-commerce struggle exists strongly within him (he even writes songs about it). I have more to say but am getting upset lol

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by Ench

They do have the right to fire him, if they don't want to work with him any more.

I would hope that they would do right by anyone who lost out in the tour. However, we don't know exactly what happened and whose fault it was. Perhaps we should wait to find out more about the split, if we ever do.

Otherwise it's easy to blame the band members we don't like, and absolve the band members that we do like.

I'm more of a Lindsey fan than a fan of any other member of that band. That doesn't mean that I jump to the conclusion that Lindsey is in the right and Mick and Stevie in the wrong.

Do you think at this point we're "jumping into conclusions"? Many people connected to the band and to the Heartbreakers have already spoken.

And yes, they can fire him and he could also sue if he had already signed on the dotted line for this upcoming tour.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by elle

it will be interesting to see the tour dates when they come out next week. i've heard that they will start with just a few dates to test the water, since they didn't expect all the backlash. but who knows, maybe they announce the whole tour. if the tour goes into late this year, this speculation will immediately be proven obsolete.

It's a fully booked tour.

[elle]

talking about business decisions........ very interesting opinion. you need to listen to the end. it is a conspiracy theory kind of rant, but the underlying corporate greed / squeeze the money while you still can from these dinosaur bands every which way you can claim is certainly something to ponder. especially if the rumors that Azoff is not LB's manager anymore are true.

[elle]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

It's a fully booked tour.

yes, it is. it has been since january. that doesn't mean they'll release all the dates on 4/23.

[julesmck]

Originally Posted by Lola

I found this on one of the Stevie tumblr blogs:

I have connections, and make no mistake that the ONLY part Stevie played in Lindsey's firing, is that she is not available to tour later next year. She has solo commitments for after this already-planned Mac tour, only for him to decide he wanted to postpone. So FM had to choose between touring now without Lindsey, or touring next year without Stevie. Alas, fans need a bad guy and they've decided Stevie's it.

But didn't Lindsey supposedly offer to scrap his solo dates when they told him he couldn't do both tours? Why would they still insist on kicking him out if he was willing to compromise?

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by julesmck

But didn't Lindsey supposedly offer to scrap his solo dates when they told him he couldn't do both tours? Why would they still insist on kicking him out if he was willing to compromise?

Because decisions were already made and Mike Campbell was already approached. "Him or me".

[elle]

Originally Posted by button-lip

No, it's true. It was confirmed to me by someone who was "around" a couple of the band meetings. The same person who told me Mike Campbell was approached by Mick/Stevie even before Lindsey was fired.

If Lindsey wasn't engaged in his work at the Classic East then why was he so mad with some tech during GYOW because of some sound problem? Does it sound like a person who wasn't commited with his work? Then we should all be fired from our jobs!

ah interesting.

re Classic East, that whole narrative actually fits nicely into Azoff / corporate greed conspiracy theory - LB was undermining the Classic gigs put together by Azoff with his public statements that he's at this point just accepting Mac gigs for what they are - cashgrabs - and going through the motions ("just close your eyes, play the set, and take the money"). that couldn't have sit well with Azoff.

so it's not that Lindsey is not giving it well over 100% at the Mac gigs. it's that he didn't shy away from saying they are basically uninspired cashgrabs. so you could see Azoff wanting to 1) get him in line or get rid of him, and 2) making sure that FM doesn't do yet another exact same GH tour as the last 3 ones. yes the 2014-15 one was their most successful ever probably, but there was no new narrative for the upcoming tour (like rumours 5 re-united!). having LB solo with new music and creativity going in parallel would further undermine yet another GH tour, in the year when every boomer band is doing hugely expensive farewell tours. there needed to be either a shakeup or get LB in line! so pair this with SN and LB always fighting, and SN probably always pulling similar him or me threats, and now you do have a perfect storm! so maybe, Jamie and this youtube vinyl guy are right about it all being pure corporate greed, business based decision?

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by button-lip

Eagles are selling 60% of the arenas capacity

Really? I hadn't heard that. I have not gone to any shows without Glenn because i think the "Eagles" are not legitimate now.

That certainly doesn't bode well for Fleetwood Mac.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by elle

ah interesting.

re Classic East, that whole narrative actually fits nicely into Azoff / corporate greed conspiracy theory - LB was undermining the Classic gigs put together by Azoff with his public statements that he's at this point just accepting Mac gigs for what they are - cashgrabs - and going through the motions ("just close your eyes, play the set, and take the money"). that couldn't have sit well with Azoff.

so it's not that Lindsey is not giving it well over 100% at the Mac gigs. it's that he didn't shy away from saying they are basically uninspired cashgrabs. so you could see Azoff wanting to 1) get him in line or get rid of him, and 2) making sure that FM doesn't do yet another exact same GH tour as the last 3 ones. yes the 2014-15 one was their most successful ever probably, but there was no new narrative for the upcoming tour (like rumours 5 re-united!). having LB solo with new music and creativity going in parallel would further undermine yet another GH tour, in the year when every boomer band is doing hugely expensive farewell tours. there needed to be either a shakeup or get LB in line! so pair this with SN and LB always fighting, and SN probably always pulling similar him or me threats, and now you do have a perfect storm! so maybe, Jamie and this youtube vinyl guy are right about it all being pure corporate greed, business based decision?

In the latest press release, Azoff is not listed as Fleetwood Mac's manager. Unless that was a mistake, he's been fired too (or he dropped them).

Or has there been an amendment to that release?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Really? I hadn't heard that. I have not gone to any shows without Glenn because i think the "Eagles" are not legitimate now.

That certainly doesn't bode well for Fleetwood Mac.

I saw the Eagles for two consecutive nights, a couple weeks ago. The first night, I got(at the last minute) the cheapest seat they had, looking directly at the back side of their right ears. There was still a big screen, and the audio was perfect, so it was fine...

The second night, I decided I'd upgrade a bit... but NO cheap seats left. Box office lady, "we've got tons of $250 seats, but NO cheaper seats". I said, "I don't WANT a $250 seat!" She said, "no one does, that's why all the cheap seats are gone. Everyone would rather sit behind them, than pay $250 for a semi crappy seat!"

[jkmaletic]

Carol Ann Harris' thoughts on this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhnctNhhQnk/

[ryan4136]

Originally Posted by jkmaletic

Carol Ann Harris' thoughts on this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhnctNhhQnk/

What a rambling mess, that never got around to saying anything.